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On July 23 2013 09:41 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much dota 2 for blizzard is just like any other competitor game.The bond exists only in the mind of the fans and i am not even sure about those since the majority of dota 2 fans never heard of dota 1 and never heard of wc3/bw/sc2.Just check the dota2 reddit thingy.new fans only see dota2 as it is now.
Really? Can you support that claim with actual evidence?
Because as far as I know, this "majority of dota 2 fans" are actually Chinese, and are only DotA 2 fans because they were DotA 1 fans. DotA was fucking massive in China, not in the esports sense that WC3 was (and BW in Korea) but it was still wildly popular, especially among amateur WC3 players.
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God damn, I wonder what Starcraft could have been if a company like Riot had developed it. It's been fuckup after fuckup by Blizzard.
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On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking...
He's laughing because people like you blow this out of proportion every time there is a post on TL about non-ideal situations in E-Sports.
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I will be on vacation and i won't have internet for at least 20 days.I especially planned to watch TI3 7-11 at an internet cafe and Blizzard just decides to fuck every1 over by doing this bullshit.I am a huge fan of starcraft,just a fan of dota.I play both games and of course i will be watching TI3.Raise ur dongers
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On July 23 2013 09:44 Bagration wrote:
God damn, I wonder what Starcraft could have been if a company like Riot had developed it. It's been fuckup after fuckup by Blizzard.
An even cartoonier game chock full of micro-transactions and that requires you to purchase units? 
In all seriousness though, I know what you're getting at... if only Blizzard knew how to push their game in the same way.
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I swear if their plan was to fuck the e-sports scene of SC they couldn't have done a better job. I don't even follow the Dota scene and I'm going to watch TI 3 because the last one was an amazing show. I don't know what I was expecting they clearly said they don't give a fuck about the e-sports part since how insignificant it is for them
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United States22883 Posts
On July 23 2013 09:40 dcsoda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much This is a serious question but what is this bond between Dota 2 and SC2? Is it because Dota was a War3 mod? The games seem as different as you're going to get to me. As to this being a nail in the coffin I just don't get it. This isn't the finals of S2 and the game itself seems more entertaining to watch than ever. They already put NASL in charge of WCS NA which was a great move. This part of the season wasn't ever going to come close to this Dota tournament anyway so people can check out both at once if they want to. It isn't even going to infringe on the grand finals of the Dota tournament! The level of reaction and vitriol this is causing is just baffling to me.
I think the bond is that they're not LoL.  Basically everyone from my SC2 friends list primarily plays/follows DotA 2 now.
Some people are going to have a great option to watch both, but for a lot of people (myself included) I think it's too much to follow for that weekend. I'll use the DotA downtime to get other things done like cooking/cleaning/relaxing and it'll be less enjoyable to follow the SC2 if I'm only tuning in for an occasional single game out of a bo3 set, without having any sense of continuity or storyline throughout the tournament.
As for SC2 in general, I still tune in occasionally but once I start missing the major events, the minor events seem less interesting as well. That's why I'd prefer to watch both separately, since majors always have a bigger draw than minors. In this case, I'll be mostly ignoring a major.
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I honestly dont understand how such a tight timeschedule can even come up. You know all the dates of the other tournaments a couple of weeks before they take place and blizz probably gets that information even sooner than the common sc2 fan who reads it on TL.net...
You know how many steps have to be taken until the grand finals can take place (Ro32, Ro16, Ro8, semis, final, for each region). I dont understand how the Challenger league and the qualifiers for it can take up so much spotlight when the premiere league is much more important.
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On July 23 2013 09:42 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:41 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much dota 2 for blizzard is just like any other competitor game.The bond exists only in the mind of the fans and i am not even sure about those since the majority of dota 2 fans never heard of dota 1 and never heard of wc3/bw/sc2.Just check the dota2 reddit thingy.new fans only see dota2 as it is now. Really? Can you support that claim with actual evidence? Because as far as I know, this "majority of dota 2 fans" are actually Chinese, and are only DotA 2 fans because they were DotA 1 fans. DotA was fucking massive in China, not in the esports sense that WC3 was (and BW in Korea) but it was still wildly popular, especially for the amateur WC3 players.
China and Korea where esports have different traditions and continuities are different things.Fact is the hundreds of thousands of people watching dota2 on twitch and the many dota2 tournaments with their huge success did not exist during the dota1 days when,although succesfull,dota 1 was still a niche esport just like that moba form south korea.Many of the foreign fans only know about mobas form lol and dota and could not care less about anything else.So yeah the traditional bond between sc and dota only exists between old fans of blizzard games aka the ones that playe dboth wc3/bw/dota1.The new ones could not care less about history
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On July 23 2013 09:45 FaRess wrote:
I swear if their plan was to fuck the e-sports scene of SC they couldn't have done a better job. I don't even follow the Dota scene and I'm going to watch TI 3 because the last one was an amazing show. I don't know what I was expecting they clearly said they don't give a fuck about the e-sports part since how insignificant it is for them
Yes putting on WCS and committing to it for multiple years already is clearly just a ruse to really stick it to us...
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Twitch can't even handle Dreamhack never mind 3 consecutive WCS finals plus TI3. 2-3 weeks for twitch to prepare GL they will need it.
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On July 23 2013 09:48 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:42 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:41 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much dota 2 for blizzard is just like any other competitor game.The bond exists only in the mind of the fans and i am not even sure about those since the majority of dota 2 fans never heard of dota 1 and never heard of wc3/bw/sc2.Just check the dota2 reddit thingy.new fans only see dota2 as it is now. Really? Can you support that claim with actual evidence? Because as far as I know, this "majority of dota 2 fans" are actually Chinese, and are only DotA 2 fans because they were DotA 1 fans. DotA was fucking massive in China, not in the esports sense that WC3 was (and BW in Korea) but it was still wildly popular, especially for the amateur WC3 players. China and Korea where esports have different traditions and continuities are different things.Fact is the hundreds of thousands of people watching dota2 on twitch and the many dota2 tournaments with their huge success did not exist during the dota1 days when,although succesfull,dota 1 was still a niche esport just like that moba form south korea.Many of the foreign fans only know about mobas form lol and dota and could not care less about anything else.So yeah the traditional bond between sc and dota only exists between old fans of blizzard games aka the ones that playe dboth wc3/bw/dota1.The new ones could not care less about history
I'm not even talking about "the bond between sc and dota", I'm just saying the Chinese are still far and away the majority of DotA 2 followers, and only because of how massive DotA 1 and WC3 were in China.
You think WC3 was so big just because it was a good game? No, it also had a shit ton of great custom games for the amateur players to enjoy, and DotA happened to become the biggest. Same goes for Brood War, most people played BGH/fastest and other UMS with their friends. Just because they didn't have $1 mil. tournaments for them doesn't mean they weren't huge.
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On July 23 2013 09:48 dcsoda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:45 FaRess wrote:
I swear if their plan was to fuck the e-sports scene of SC they couldn't have done a better job. I don't even follow the Dota scene and I'm going to watch TI 3 because the last one was an amazing show. I don't know what I was expecting they clearly said they don't give a fuck about the e-sports part since how insignificant it is for them Yes putting on WCS and committing to it for multiple years already is clearly just a ruse to really stick it to us...
Sooner or later they'll have to start doing the WCS well and not just have it exist.
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On July 23 2013 09:51 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:48 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:45 FaRess wrote:
I swear if their plan was to fuck the e-sports scene of SC they couldn't have done a better job. I don't even follow the Dota scene and I'm going to watch TI 3 because the last one was an amazing show. I don't know what I was expecting they clearly said they don't give a fuck about the e-sports part since how insignificant it is for them Yes putting on WCS and committing to it for multiple years already is clearly just a ruse to really stick it to us... Sooner or later they'll have to start doing the WCS well and not just have it exist.
Well if Blizzard keeps fucking up and the community keeps reacting so very negatively to every mistake (whether or not this is helpful, that's a different discussion entirely), there may well be no "later".
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On July 23 2013 09:51 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:48 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:45 FaRess wrote:
I swear if their plan was to fuck the e-sports scene of SC they couldn't have done a better job. I don't even follow the Dota scene and I'm going to watch TI 3 because the last one was an amazing show. I don't know what I was expecting they clearly said they don't give a fuck about the e-sports part since how insignificant it is for them Yes putting on WCS and committing to it for multiple years already is clearly just a ruse to really stick it to us... Sooner or later they'll have to start doing the WCS well and not just have it exist.
I agree. And I'm going to give them more than 1.5 seasons to do that. Especially with NASL starting up with WCS NA
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awful excuse
gonna watch ti3 even though i like sc2
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The bond is part of the playerbase. DotA started as a/the mod/maps AOS (Aeon of Strife, you may remember it from sc:bw), so its real roots go way back as you might have realised, this map evolved in blizzards next big title (wc3), it was balanced, got bigger and bigger and many people loved it (more people than wc3 at some time).
As you can see the scenes were always kinda together and when sc2 came out/was in beta ofc i watched streams (german and english ones) of sc2, it was only natural, that we could/would either continue with our healthy symbiosis or get our own game - but Blizzard did not realy react, so S2, Riot and Valve made their arts/moba/aos game and many who had high hopes for Sc2, did go the these other companys.
This does not change history though, i was happy with Blizzard for over a decade.
It is less about the actual numbers to me and yes i agree, the gameplay has hugely improvemed since WoL and no, there will not be a real competition who will have the bigger numbers, but it shows that Blizzard is not the company it was. With the people 10 years ago, this would NOT have happend.
This kind of mistakes, paired with the circumstance NASL/MLG just show me, that Blizzard and me drifted apart and this realisation, that Blizzard is not the company that it once was, that is what is hitting me so hard.
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On July 23 2013 09:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:36 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Dramatic much? In tears? God forbid that some people might actually, get this, care a lot more than you... O_O
In tears is a bit dramatic over one set of finals being the same weekend as another event. It not ideal, but it's what they could do. I don't see getting super worked up over something that's not ideal.
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On July 23 2013 09:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:36 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Dramatic much? In tears? God forbid that some people might actually, get this, care a lot more than you... O_O In tears is a bit dramatic over one set of finals being the same weekend as another event. It not ideal, but it's what they could do. I don't see getting super worked up over something that's not ideal.
Other people may have other priorities in life. Just because you don't agree with them or don't get their emotions doesn't necessarily make them wrong.
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As a Starcraft player who switched to Dota 2 while still watching some SC2, I am really disappointed by Blizzard and how they are slowly killing the game... It's SURE that the numbers of viewers of the WCS finals will decrease because of TI3, because of the guys who are watching both games and Twitch which will not be able to follow with so many people on it.
I have read some comments saying that they don't care about the number of viewers if they can watch great SC matches... But hey the sponsors don't care about the quality of the games but in the number of viewers.
Anyway I wanted to watch the WCS finals, but with Twitch dead and too little downtime during the dota games (if it's like last year), I guess I will just watch the VOD of the korea finals....
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EPT
