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TruEcz
Czech Republic25 Posts
On July 10 2013 10:11 JJH777 wrote: Just saw this: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/jingjing/ and I definitely agree with the Koreans way more than this topic. Protoss whine the most. Umm, no... Even acording to Koreans Protoss whine the least. Protoss is blue, Terran is green and Zerg is red. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On July 10 2013 23:13 Cheerio wrote: Zerg units are the weakest ones. In order to win zerg needs to outsmart/outeco/counter the opponent using the unique production method of zerg ie ability to switch production. Zerg is significantly more taxing strategically, while protoss and terran only slightly mechanically. That sounds challenging, but it also sounds like it's extremely rewarding if you are able to pull off a win? | ||
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Duncaaaaaan
United Kingdom101 Posts
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TRAvian
23 Posts
On July 10 2013 09:02 dr.fahrenheit wrote: In reverse that would of course mean that Protoss wins are the most satisfying or their losses the least frustrating. I don’t know… (There’s a reason why it’s called ‘theory’) The least frustrating? I think "lost a game because I missed 1 FF/1 zealot wasn't on hold position" is a lot more frustrating than "Oh I forgot to inject because I'm bad, now I have no units" On July 10 2013 09:02 dr.fahrenheit wrote: Of course this still leaves open the protoss paradox, which I currently have no theories on  I have a couple of personal theories.. 1. Protoss realized that no amount of Protoss QQ will get Blizzard to do anything  (see: 1 year of gglord winfestor)2. Protoss realized that Blizz doesn't care about PvX, so why bother (at the end of WoL, PvP = 1 base all in and/or mass colossus, PvZ = 2/3 base all in before gglords OR harass the fuck out of Zerg before their gglords can A-move into your base OR get a lucky vortex if no NP/split, and PvT = try to survive the 10 minute push and make deathball) 3. In low leagues (bronze-plat) Protoss is generally considered the "ez a move race" so Protoss doesn't complain as much? And QQ usually is about mutas or whatever. Also, at least on the bnet forums, at the higher levels (dia-masters) Protoss QQ tends to be more logical: even though it's complaining about mutas, most will actually list reasons why the muta is a problem (mutas = dead if didn't open SG, and if you make too many phoenix you just die to hydras... and when you've held off the hydras, another 30 mutas comes) | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
It's so hard for Z to end a match even from a winning position against T, and it feels very easily to make one mistake and lose the match. You're never in a good position until the match is over, no matter how many battles you've won or bases you've denied. The matchup can still be completely balanced and fair, but it feels like Z needs to do so much more work and be so much more vigilant to finish a game after effectively winning than T does | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind). I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. | ||
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crawlert
9 Posts
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dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On July 11 2013 01:59 crawlert wrote: This thread is going too far. It serves no purpose other than dividing the community and stigmatizing Zerg players. Many of the comments in particular are extremely rude. Is this thread an attempt at bullying players who happen to like playing Zerg? Maybe it isn't intentional but it certainly is going that way. I don't see Zerg players "whining" here. I see a lot of SC2 players being complete jerks to their own members. This: On July 09 2013 10:10 dr.fahrenheit wrote: "Whining" is the the wrong word for this. There might be valid reasons (or not), if players of a certain race seem to be the most unsatisfied, but that is a discussion I really wanted to avoid, because it leads to the dark side (which is also known as reddit.com) and this: On July 09 2013 23:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote: It really wasn’t intended to be charged with emotions along the lines of „All this guys do is whine/bitch etc.“ All I wanted was a somewhat representative picture of the overall situation, the interpretation of that picture is a whole other thing… Complaining or the expression of dissatisfaction should never be equalized with whining/bitching and treated like a bad thing, but rather be treated as a starting cause to look into the reasons why so many people are not satisfied. (I already have some theories which I will write down later in a recap) | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
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Lephex
Germany153 Posts
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:55 dr.fahrenheit wrote: Theory #1: Playing Zerg is more frustrating than playing Protoss or Terran because wins are not as rewarding, losses are more discouraging due to the feeling of not being in control of the match. In reverse that would of course mean that Protoss wins are the most satisfying or their losses the least frustrating. I don’t know… (There’s a reason why it’s called ‘theory’) Sorry i couldn't let this go. This is not a Theory. It is a hypothesis. There is an important different. I have hypothesise that the way losses can happen as zerg might lead to zergs feeling like the game is more unstable and unbalanced. A theory is a hypothesis that has been tested against hundreds of times both logically and empirically and has not been shown to be false. Like the THEORY of Gravity, or the THEORY of evolution for instance. | ||
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dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On July 11 2013 02:41 Surili wrote: Sorry i couldn't let this go. This is not a Theory. It is a hypothesis. There is an important different. I have hypothesise that the way losses can happen as zerg might lead to zergs feeling like the game is more unstable and unbalanced. A theory is a hypothesis that has been tested against hundreds of times both logically and empirically and has not been shown to be false. Like the THEORY of Gravity, or the THEORY of evolution for instance. Fixed, thank you | ||
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crawlert
9 Posts
Complaining or the expression of dissatisfaction should never be equalized with whining/bitching and treated like a bad thing, but rather be treated as a starting cause to look into the reasons why so many people are not satisfied. It is a poll of perceptions. It is not a real account of the numbers of complaints by each race. The only thing we get out of this is we know there is a stereotype of Zerg being whiners and some of the people who hold that view are being dicks in this thread. | ||
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dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On July 11 2013 02:49 crawlert wrote: It is a poll of perceptions. It is not a real account of the numbers of complaints by each race. The only thing we get out of this is we know there is a stereotype of Zerg being whiners and some of the people who hold that view are being dicks in this thread. You are right, it's about perceptions and it's always about what you make out of them. If you have the impression that Zerg players complain the most you can either take the short sighted, idotic and dickish way and say "Zerg players are just whiners" or you can try to look for reasons why and how this impression developed. That's why I wrote it is all under the assumption that all SC2 players regardless if the play Z, T, P, or R are basically the same, and have the same prerequisites (for rage, frustration, patience, talent etc.). I don't think Zergs are any whinier than any of the other races that's why I'm so interested in the underlying causes of how and why this perception developed. | ||
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Olferen
United States39 Posts
On July 10 2013 23:13 Cheerio wrote: Zerg units are the weakest ones. In order to win zerg needs to outsmart/outeco/counter the opponent using the unique production method of zerg ie ability to switch production. Zerg is significantly more taxing strategically, while protoss and terran only slightly mechanically. Hahahahahahahahahaha. The zerg I see literally just a-move their banelings into my bio ball and get mad when they smack into Marauders. It's okay, I played Zerg for awhile and I loved it, and then I switched to Terran and it's much more mechanically difficult along with an incredible multi-tasking requirement along with micro, macro, and decision making. Zerg think they have APM when really they're just holding down a button to build units. | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
You just resurrected a thread that had a poll, which the OP wanted to leave for a bit and then collect the results from. He did that and made his analytical post, there was more chat and it was left. Now you've come in and with a very early post on the forum (i.e. possibly actual "newbie" doing the following), acted as if totally all zergs must like *totally* just be holding down a button to make units lololol 'cause when I play them, that's what they seem to do. Not really adding anything to the dead discussion there, pal. + Show Spoiler + To be clear, I made this post to let the li'l guy know, seeing as moderators sometimes just type one line that doesn't really explain and close it. | ||
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
The difficulty level is irrelevant to the fact that the ways zerg losses are more frustrating. A slight difference in timing can mean the difference of defending and getting absolutely rolled over. Also, defensive abilities are very limited in comparison to having bunkers/planetaries/forcefield/MSC. Yes it's easy to hold down the "r" and "z" key, much more difficult to stay alive while your opponent picks you apart. It is written in the game that defense is harder to manage than offense, and it just happens that until we get 80 drones we have to be defensive. Also, zerg units are hard countered to such extent that fights don't even look close. Your 200/200 army can remax quickly on roaches/ling/ultra, but it's quite irrelevant when your opponent has maxed skytoss, or 3/3 mech. Maps are also generally written to create a lot of high ground/barriers/chokes which will ultimately dictate that your much higher volume army must fight at a disadvantage most of the time, wasting your units. I think the way the game is, is necessary because zerg easily becomes too powerful when you take just one of these things into consideration. It does not, however, lessen the frustration of losses, which are more the complaint of zerg players. | ||
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
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