There's a limitation to how unique a race can be too, so on some basic level there needs to be some compensatory features to Protoss harass vs Terran harass. If Terrans hold the crown for moblity, DPS, resilience, unavoidability, and cost efficiency, then what else is left for Protoss? Sometimes characteristics need to be shared, but they can be achieved differently. Ultimately, there's still a very simple equation that every race must satisfy, me = alive, you = dead.

mostevil

United Kingdom611 Posts

June 20 2013 01:14 GMT

#185

On June 20 2013 07:02 GTPGlitch wrote:

Show nested quote +

afaik barracks can't be put in medivacs

And warp prisms with a gateway in them have a massive 0 movement speed. Don't be silly now, a viking or two on the edge of your base can stop in base warp ins just fine. A Zealot drops nothing compared to a marine/hellbat medivac drop.

RiceAgainst

United States1849 Posts

June 20 2013 01:15 GMT

#186

I honestly don't know how this will be like, I hope it's OP enough to bring entertaining games but not to the point where it gets reverted.

Bagi

Germany6799 Posts

June 20 2013 01:15 GMT

#187

On June 20 2013 10:08 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Does this buff disables mass hellbats drops on our army?

Does that actually happen in PvT? I've only seen it used in tank vs tank wars.

Rockafella

United Kingdom291 Posts

June 20 2013 01:16 GMT

#188

Templars in speed prisms gonna be pretty much always viable now.

RyuuZer0

Australia36 Posts

June 20 2013 01:16 GMT

#189

One viking should still be enough to shut down warp prism harass if properly positioned. Warping in "a whole army in your base" still won't work as you can shoot the warp prism down before the units finish warping. Seems to me like it'd still be easier than dealing with speed medivacs, since gateway unit dps is so low.

I think this will mostly be used for four zealot drops or storm drops, rather than warping in 20+ supply in the opponent's base. We might even see some colossus drops in competitive play

Shiori

3815 Posts

June 20 2013 01:17 GMT

#190

On June 20 2013 06:55 TheDwf wrote:

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Yeah. Can't wait to have Zealots 24/7 rampaging my base because I can't finish a Prism with a Viking...

You can't kill a Medivac with a Viking either. And before you complain about warp-in capability, note that if a Warp Prism is chased away, it isn't warping in units. Besides, this really only affects the early/mid-game, during which point Protoss will have a low Gateway count (unless he's all-inning, in which case WP speed is irrelevant) anyway, so you can just mop up the harass, leave a few Marines or build a Turret to stop the Prism for warping in (stimmed bio kills a Prism before it can drop/warp in anything if you're paying attention) and go kill the guy who has half his army invested in a dropship. Should easily be able to deny his third.

Cereb

Denmark3388 Posts

June 20 2013 01:18 GMT

#191

The warp prism is already really really strong. It baffles me that I don't face it every single game ! It's going to be rough that with this patch because toss players are probably gonna realise how good it is and just use it all the time!

On June 20 2013 10:03 teddyoojo wrote:
yeah buff protoss when its almost 50% protoss in gm already

Yeah, the issue is that Protoss is much better on ladder than in competitive play it seems. They have a ridiculous amount of simple and abusive strats that can just outright kill you if you are not well prepared. But as soon as it comes to tournaments and you get several tries against the same opponent and maybe even know their tendencies, then they lose a lot of that strength. A bit frustrating for us ladder chumps :p

Also, I am pretty sick of waiting for the hellbat nerf... I wish they would at least have given me that to look forward to amidst all the warp ins in my base :p

Gorribal

Canada186 Posts

June 20 2013 01:19 GMT

#192

On June 20 2013 07:01 FXOTheoRy wrote:

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speed medivacs same problem

I don't want to engage in balance discussion, but this could actually be very problematic: Protoss have 4.25 speed Phoenix, the fastest Terran Air Unit is 2.75

Anyways, does anyone know what the speed upgrade does now? Or is it the same upgraded speed, just better unupgraded speed?

Usernameffs

Sweden107 Posts

June 20 2013 01:20 GMT

#193

in my opinion the biggest problem with starcraft right now is pvz. The problem is that protoss allins are better then macro play even at the highest level possible and it doesn't matter what protoss scouts in the match. I don't really see this doing much except early harass, maybe it can have some use in the late game, but the changes they needed to do was before Starcraft was released because they are so big.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

June 20 2013 01:21 GMT

#194

On June 20 2013 10:15 Bagi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Does that actually happen in PvT? I've only seen it used in tank vs tank wars.

It can and the hellbats are so tanky with the healing that they don't die fast enough. Its not super common because you need a lot of hellbats, but it can happen.

playa

United States1284 Posts

June 20 2013 01:25 GMT

#195

Lowering the risk associated with everything, how exciting. They should give warp prisms the Mulligan buff: the ability to play the game back from 2 minutes prior. Even though I play toss and perhaps feel they got the short end of the stick, I don't want matching no risk buffs. If anything, I want them removed.

A more important thing to consider is that toss was the weakest in WoL, yet you're limited to making 1-2 oracles in any mu (0 probably in p vs z). The mothership core is capped to 1. And tempests aren't even made besides in very rare and specific cases outside of p vs p (obviously mirror mu's don't affect balance between other races). Given no other race is limited to making 2 of whichever new unit... the new toss units should probably be stronger than they currently are.

1 of each new unit and a speed increase that is canceled out by the speed increase to medivacs doesn't sound like it does the trick. How many imbalanced threads do you see over the oracle or mothership core? It's hard to lose to 1 unit.

xxjcdentonxx

Canada163 Posts

June 20 2013 01:30 GMT

#196

I wonder what math they did to decide on exactly 2.953.

BaronVonOwn

299 Posts

June 20 2013 01:30 GMT

#197

Vikings are such a joke. Can't catch medivacs, don't beat phoenix, can't handle mutas. Now they're useless against warp prisms too. About the only units a viking really counters are colossus and brood lords and they don't shoot back. So if they're worthless as antiair how are they supposed to be used? Landing them?

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

June 20 2013 01:32 GMT

#198

On June 20 2013 10:30 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Vikings are such a joke. Can't catch medivacs, don't beat phoenix, can't handle mutas. Now they're useless against warp prisms too. About the only units a viking really counters are colossus and brood lords and they don't shoot back. So if they're worthless as antiair how are they supposed to be used? Landing them?

Yes, because the only situations in which vikings are ever used are when they're trying to chase units. Ignore all the times when you put two vikings at the side of your base and when someone tries to drop with a medivac/warp prism, you just kill it.

Al Bundy

7257 Posts

June 20 2013 01:32 GMT

#199

As a Protoss player I'm not entirely convinced by this pacth... I don't know how to put it, but I don't really like the idea of the WP being such a good unit. I'd prefer my drop tactics to be actually hard to pull off. I'd rather they nerf the other race's drop & harass capabilities, than buff mine's.

Granted, I'm not part of the design team, but from what I understand the WP was supposed to be a high risk / high reward unit; extremely fragile but able to turn the tide of the game in one instant. It seems that we're getting farther from this original design.