EPTCall to Action: June 14 Balance Testing - Page 7
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:05 ACrow wrote: I don't agree with the Banshee buff. The only reason they are not being used right now is that hellbats and widow mine drops are just so much better. If they want to buff Terran to compensate, which I could agree with, it should be done at the late game, i.e. by buffing siege tank damage. Exactly. Banshees aren't weak. They are good. It's just that the other Terran harass options are even more powerful (i.e. can kill a dozen workers in a second). | ||
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:17 Plansix wrote: Plus there is a certain tension to cloaked banshees that I miss. Sure, I hated them and felt a little joy every time they died, but I still miss them. They brought the fear that they would ruin you, but that you could deal with them if you were on the ball. There really isn't much fear of Banshees at all with HoTS protoss. Even if they were buffed extensively you'd hardly see them in TvP without a speed increase. Oracle openings hard counter banshee harassment since the Oracle functions as a detector as well as allowing a quick phoenix to be made. The Mothership Core heavily discourages banshee usage as well considering that the range on Photon Overcharge is so huge that any banshee not already out of the Protoss base by the time it is activated will take heavy damage. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:20 Salient wrote: Exactly. Banshees aren't weak. They are good. It's just that the other Terran harass options are even more powerful (i.e. can kill a dozen workers in a second). I'm sure it has nothing to do with the addition of Spawning Pool spore Crawlers, Oracles and the Mothership Core. Wake up. Banshee harassment vs Protoss and Zerg got heavily nerfed in HoTS it was just done so indirectly rather than directly. We said so in beta and they ignored us. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:21 Vindicare605 wrote: There really isn't much fear of Banshees at all with HoTS protoss. Even if they were buffed extensively you'd hardly see them in TvP without a speed increase. Oracle openings hard counter banshee harassment since the Oracle functions as a detector as well as allowing a quick phoenix to be made. The Mothership Core heavily discourages banshee usage as well considering that the range on Photon Overcharge is so huge that any banshee not already out of the Protoss base by the time it is activated will take heavy damage. I didn't see banshees in the last 1.5 years of WoL either. And I don't think oracles are any harder to stop that cloaked banshees, have played against both. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On June 15 2013 04:58 Xequecal wrote: Remind me how you reliably scout the fact that Terran took gas first? You're aware they block their ramp, right? well, maybe send a scout! | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:17 Plansix wrote: Plus there is a certain tension to cloaked banshees that I miss. Sure, I hated them and felt a little joy every time they died, but I still miss them. They brought the fear that they would ruin you, but that you could deal with them if you were on the ball. I'm so gonna hit the ladder with 1-1-1 cloaked banshee into mech TvP if this goes through. I loved that style on wings, hope it becomes semiviable again. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:23 Plansix wrote: I didn't see banshees in the last 1.5 years of WoL either. And I don't think oracles are any harder to stop that cloaked banshees, have played against both. Oracle harassment might not exactly be stronger, but with their speed you at least have the opportunity to escape from defenders. With Banshee harassment that's a lot more difficult. Their speed is low for an air based harassment unit and that makes any investment in them very difficult to keep without causing substantial damage, that's balanced around the fact that cloaking is an option but with a 200/200 investment required to use it you can see why Terrans would avoid using Banshees. Reducing the cost on cloaking is a good move. It doesn't make the unit any better which already CAN be strong if used against an unsuspecting opponent, but it makes the investment required for Banshees much more manageable so that we can see it used as part of a wider variety of builds. The Dark Shrine buff in hindsight has been met with almost a universal amount of praise, this cloaking change is being offered with the same reasoning behind it. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3513 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:49 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: if you want to promote banshees without going for such a drastic change, just merge banshee and ghost cloak. It will promote both without breaking the meta. That's actually an insanely good suggestion, but where would the upgrade be? | ||
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peawok
United States71 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Thanks Blizzard, I appreciate it, it was much needed *wink, wink* | ||
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leova
266 Posts
So because they fix a broken unit...they make another already-strong unit potentially even more ridiculous? Love the Warp Prism change, it makes perfect sense all around Love the Hellbat change, they were too strong too early, this makes them more of a mid-game option Hate the Banshee change, its completely out-of-the-blue, stupid, and unnecessary Anyone else see the 1-1-1 becoming popular again with the banshee change? God that was my least favourite build to go up against... except now you'll have cheap cloaked Banshees AND Hellbats to deal with, all at the same time! | ||
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jekku
Canada1640 Posts
 lol). | ||
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MWY
Germany284 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:30 Gescom wrote: That's actually an insanely good suggestion, but where would the upgrade be? The problem with that is that the two units are hardly ever used together and linking their upgrades on say the Ghost Academy is actually a nerf to Banshee play while putting their upgrade on say the Starport's tech Lab is a nerf to say someone who wanted to go for a WoL ghost rush vs Protoss. Not to mention from a lore point of view it doesn't make any sense. The technology required to make a Ghost cloak is radically different from what makes Banshees cloak. | ||
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TC_Beynbio
Norway81 Posts
That means faster banshees timings. It's like they made 1-1-1 build even faster. If that is added, many will have big problems. If Zerg doesn't make a evo-chamber in time, it's bye bye to your drones. Same situation for toss, but they have obs. They might also be added in a later push if the harass doesn't work much. As a Toss player, i'm very glad that they are trying to buff the Warp Prism. It's a very slow transport unit in general (without the upgrade). Maybe the Warp Prism can be used more frequently? | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:32 jekku wrote: I'm a terran player. Imo all you need to do is get rid of the medivac heal on hellbats and that solves alot. Never made sense why hellbats were bio units anyway in the first place. Can save all these buff and nerf changes esp the banshee one is insane (though i won't complain lol).The hellbat is bio so archons hardcounter them. People have a real hard time getting that, protoss would be screwed if it wasn't for the fact hellbats are bio. | ||
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silentzero
Canada38 Posts
Hopefully WP buff isn't moar of an all-in buff or sth Hellbat nerf is welcome though Now if only blizzard can find a way to actually do something about that ZvP swarmhost + static def | ||
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