EPTCall to Action: June 14 Balance Testing - Page 8
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Scrandom
Canada2819 Posts
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RemrafGrez
United States180 Posts
On June 15 2013 04:01 Salient wrote: You mean the 150/150 Oracle that comes out of an otherwise useless stargate and can be shut down by a single turret? LOL. It's so much better to invest that gas in a robo facility that can give you both detection and splash damage, which you absolutely need to survive against MMM. I recently tried going 3 hidden oracles into one full on attack, to see if I could kill the likely turret that would be there at the T's base. It was there. I was attacking it for what seemed like forever before the guy noticed... the turret was in the red before he started repairing. Instantly it shot up from a few red hitpoints to half health and one oracle died before I could pull out. Oracles are junk. Any real pro is not going to go Oracles except when they are in the mood for a coinflip because they don't like a map. Way too luck based right now. 600/600 worth of air investment is shut down by 100 minerals at the Terran's base. Brother, Terran just has air defense covered in such a big way it's pretty much broken from the point of view of P. To chime in on the Banshee, I played another game where I was T vs a Z, and had the guy crippled early via a few hellbat drops. He was at half my workers, so I just casually built up to a max bio + mine + hellbat army with 3/3 bio. I knew he'd be back in the game, but I was always 1 or two bases ahead, so I figured he'd never have a chance. A few bad engagements later, it turned into a base race once his Ultras were out. Finally it came down to my last base -he didn't know about- against his ground army plus a few mutas. I pumped out 3 banshees and a handfull of marines along with left over medivacs and won the game. It proved to me Banshees still have a place in TvZ, I don't know what the fuss is about. Point being, Banshees are great air to ground damage. Marines are once against the most versatile unit in the game. What an awesome combo?! | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:34 Scrandom wrote:  | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:45 Snowbear wrote: PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this  . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo.Cloack: this makes tvt a bigger coinflip. Is that good? Doesn't really affect TvZ that much since hellbats still 2-shot lings. Hellbats in army will be only a tiny beat weaker in TvZ. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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saltis
159 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:33 TC_Beynbio wrote: The Banshee buff is going to be a problem for maybe Zerg and Toss players but mostly zergs. That means faster banshees timings. It's like they made 1-1-1 build even faster. If that is added, many will have big problems. If Zerg doesn't make a evo-chamber in time, it's bye bye to your drones. Same situation for toss, but they have obs. They might also be added in a later push if the harass doesn't work much. As a Toss player, i'm very glad that they are trying to buff the Warp Prism. It's a very slow transport unit in general (without the upgrade). Maybe the Warp Prism can be used more frequently? Do you even play Zerg ? SPOILER ALERT: Spore doesn't need evolution chamber anymore | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
i guess hellbat and warp prism changes are nice maybe. not terrible ideas from blizzard which is nice  im still waiting for my turret buff tho (less dmg less cost) | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:35 Zheryn wrote: Doesn't really affect TvZ that much since hellbats still 2-shot lings. Hellbats in army will be only a tiny beat weaker in TvZ. Agreed. The added bonus that Helbats do vs Light baseline doesn't affect Helbat Bio/Timings. It does however make small numbers of Helbats (like 2) far less effective vs packs of workers. It's a good change with a bonus of perhaps giving Terrans a reason to research Blue Flame again which Helbat drops have made an obsolete tech route. (they did the same thing to banshees too) | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:30 Gescom wrote: That's actually an insanely good suggestion, but where would the upgrade be? Fusion Core | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:36 saltis wrote: Do you even play Zerg ? SPOILER ALERT: Spore doesn't need evolution chamber anymore Yeah cloaked stuff doesn't work vs Zerg, so might as well buff cloak banshees if it doesn't really bother the other 2 races. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:35 Zheryn wrote: Doesn't really affect TvZ that much since hellbats still 2-shot lings. Hellbats in army will be only a tiny beat weaker in TvZ. well, it will affect it a little, as not each zergling just gets exclusively 2shot by hellbats, but like 1shot from a hellbat+1shot from a marine right now a lot of the time. Also against hydras and locusts in Mech vs Zerg. But it basically just means: IF YOU WANT TO EXTENSIVELY USE HELLBATS (INSTEAD OF WIDOW MINES), GET THAT FUCKING 150/150 UPGRADE (LIKE YOU GET THAT 150/150 UPGRADE FOR WIDOW MINES). It's really not that gamebreaking to go for one of the factory techlab upgrades if you use those units a lot. So in macrogames, your army should be basically same strength, but early hellbat drops and allins will be nerfed. (TLO will rejoice) | ||
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Holdenintherye
Canada1441 Posts
Then they buff banshees which will force protoss to open robo? I'm confused. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
lol. So going for a cloaked banshee timing would require building an additional structure that costs 150 gas just to research an upgrade that costs 200 gas all for the benefit that now Ghosts that you may or may not have wanted to build have cloaking at baseline? I like Blizzard's idea more. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:39 ZenithM wrote: Yeah cloaked stuff doesn't work vs Zerg, so might as well buff cloak banshees if it doesn't really bother the other 2 races. Cloaked Banshees can still be effective even with Spore Crawlers around, but with such a huge cost of investment its very hard to justify going for them as opposed to other builds in the current meta. (Did a GM cast not that far back where the Terran always opened for them and it worked very well) With a reduced cost more Terrans might be willing to take that risk and with 100 extra gas to work with it makes the build far easier to transition out of. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:41 Holdenintherye wrote: I thought Blizzard added Oracles and Tempests to try to make stargate tech viable??? Then they buff banshees which will force protoss to open robo? I'm confused. Protip: Oracle detect, outrun, and destroy banshees. 2 oracles or 1 oracle + 1 phoenix is all it takes to shutdown banshees HARD. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:45 ZenithM wrote: Protip: Oracle detect, outrun, and destroy banshees. 2 oracles or 1 oracle + 1 phoenix is all it takes to shutdown banshees HARD. Oracles can't attack air, so I don't see the point of 2 Oracles. About the Oracle and Phoenix, I agree. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:44 Vindicare605 wrote: Cloaked Banshees can still be effective even with Spore Crawlers around, but with such a huge cost of investment its very hard to justify going for them as opposed to other builds in the current meta. (Did a GM cast not that far back where the Terran always opened for them and it worked very well) With a reduced cost more Terrans might be willing to take that risk and with 100 extra gas to work with it makes the build far easier to transition out of. theognis says his standard TvZ opening right now is hellion/banshee, because it is just better than the innovation style against roach/baneling. And I saw him doing it today against nerchio and the opening did good damage and he won the game. So, I think banshees aren't superbad in TvZ right now, and that cloak buff might just be enough to make them a little more relevant again. | ||
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schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
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Wertheron
France439 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:17 Plansix wrote: Plus there is a certain tension to cloaked banshees that I miss. Sure, I hated them and felt a little joy every time they died, but I still miss them. They brought the fear that they would ruin you, but that you could deal with them if you were on the ball. Exactly what i feel, and i'm zerg. Banshee can kill or ruin you, if you didn't see it or didn't prepare for it, but you can defend, and it's your fault if you loose. You can see hellbat and prepare for it, you still in a bad situation :D | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:41 Vindicare605 wrote: lol. So going for a cloaked banshee timing would require building an additional structure that costs 150 gas just to research an upgrade that costs 200 gas all for the benefit that now Ghosts that you may or may not have wanted to build have cloaking at baseline? I like Blizzard's idea more. I can't tell if you understood I was joking or not... I think you didn't and for that "pulls off glove" you get a Vincent Longborn slap. /rolld20 19 GGnore | ||
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