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On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
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I like the format. I don't care for invites, also open bracket is way funner to follow. Hopefully we see some more NA/SA tallent considering WCS America is what it is.
One stream and only 25 games is highly disappointing though. Why can't other casters show more games on other streams?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
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Awesome!
Great to see open bracket back! :D
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On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
Flash, Inno, Life, Rain and all the other koreans that are popular are people that can probably get their expenses paid, but there is a problem when the regular midtier korean in a korean team can't get a spot to try this. IPL and HSC etc have/had qualifiers so every korean had the chance. They don't have these types of tournaments, but do have team leagues or GSL/OSL (which others have too). Letting every region have chances for up-n-comers is HEALTHY and qualifiers like those that have been hosted EASILY shows you if they are proficient and makes it worth it to send them there. Sponsors should have the opportunity to see if the person can stand a chance. This does not help the midtiers of any region, but relies on people #yoloing to try their luck in a bracket that can deliver you an opponent like HerO in one of the first rounds, effectively killing you 95% of the time.
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On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
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On June 01 2013 03:00 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again. So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
Maybe they should, but that results in no Korean teamhouse most of the time, and that weakens your overall play so you might not be able to compete as well as you should be able to compete. Skills should come before opportunity, because they pave the way for opportunity.
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On June 01 2013 02:49 hitpoint wrote:
I like the format. I don't care for invites, also open bracket is way funner to follow. Hopefully we see some more NA/SA tallent considering WCS America is what it is.
One stream and only 25 games is highly disappointing though. Why can't other casters show more games on other streams?
Yeah... Not sure it'll be worth staying up for 
e: all weekend anyway
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I remember Totalbiscuit saying that Blizzard put a $10,000 cap on the prize pool (edit: for Shoutcraft America), and Sundance said on SotG that they were in discussion about something with Blizzard, taking a random shot in the dark I think it's very possible that the lowered quality of this MLG might be because Blizzard won't let MLG do an event that could possibly eclipse WCS. Forcing MLG to do a $25,000 prize pool means MLG can't put on as big of a show as they want, so they reduce their production costs in turn by having a smaller open bracket and less stream content.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 01 2013 03:00 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again. So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
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8751 Posts
Guys it's not like MLG doesn't know what an ideal event looks like. In fact, they've already done a lot of ideal things. They've paid for the flights and hotel rooms of the best SC2 talent in the world and put up big prize pools and created their own multistream interface and streamed in 1080p and hired the best commentators and rented out huge convention centers.
If this is the kind of event that makes sense for them for SC2 at MLG Anaheim 2013, then let's just be thankful for what they put together. This event existing is still a huge positive for the scene.
If you are in a position to make a difference and contribute to or improve the scene, then go for it. But what I see here is a bunch of people doing nothing more than spreading an unappreciative tone. The success of the event will be known after it is done and it will be known by how it actually went, not by how a few people responded to its announcement.
Discussion for discussion's sake is fine when it's original, interesting or positive. We can do without the unoriginal negative nancying.
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On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
I think T8 has pretty much no chance to qualify for the proleague playoffs. I think it would be so cool if they would send Major and TY/Argo/Cure, it would be nice to see some of those players in individual leagues.
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On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
I am all for them coming over to compete and play in MLG. The discussion you jumped in to was not talking about inviting those Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. It was about invited Innovation, Parting, Life and Flash to compete, paying for their trip over.
Everyone else is getting their on their own dime, team or otherwise(like Nony). If their happens to be an ocean in the way, well thats not really a problem MLG should be focused on solving.
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On June 01 2013 03:03 Pursuit_ wrote:
I remember Totalbiscuit saying that Blizzard put a $10,000 cap on the prize pool (edit: for Shoutcraft America), and Sundance said on SotG that they were in discussion about something with Blizzard, taking a random shot in the dark I think it's very possible that the lowered quality of this MLG might be because Blizzard won't let MLG do an event that could possibly eclipse WCS. Forcing MLG to do a $25,000 prize pool means MLG can't put on as big of a show as they want, so they reduce their production costs in turn by having a smaller open bracket and less stream content.
having a smaller prize pool (expense) should mean you have MORE money for other content..
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On June 01 2013 00:13 sitromit wrote:
25K? That used to be the prize for 1st place, now it's the entire prize pool? Wow...
is better then nothing i would say .
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On June 01 2013 03:04 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:00 Frankon wrote:On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again. So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees. It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments. Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
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Very good news. I thought MLG had sold out for good, but this is great to see!
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On June 01 2013 03:15 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:04 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 03:00 Frankon wrote:On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again. So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees. It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments. Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
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On June 01 2013 03:17 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:15 Xoronius wrote:On June 01 2013 03:04 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 03:00 Frankon wrote:On June 01 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote:
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft. But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea! Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help? I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to. And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again. So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees. It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments. Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option. Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
That's what people tell half of the NA and EU players to do, move to Korea to get better and compete at the highest level. Why should it be any different for Korean players who want to compete in events that aren't in Korea? If you want to go to every MLG or Dreamhack, you need to come over to NA or EU.
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