SALT is a training mod designed to help you practice both build orders and realistic engagements against friends or AI.
The origional version was released a year ago where it got some people interested including getting a feature on the HuskyStarcraft channel. Since then it has been ported to HOTS and there have been several new features and improvements.
SALT stands for Save And Load Tool, so called because you can save the game into one of three slots and reload without having to start a new game.
Restart the map choosing your starting location and race
Create, edit or import a build
Play through a build order with timings listed in-game and checked off as you complete them
But the simplest way to demonstrate these capabilities would be to show them in action.
These are currently on the NA server. I will be spending tonight/tomorrow uploading these same maps to the EU server and then others later on. Finished uploading to EU, it was quicker than I thought.
Two things of note however, You need to have the option "Menu>Options>Gameplay>Enable enemy unit selection" enabled in order to select your starting location (I'm guessing 99% of people have this setting enabled anyway)
Also if you play with a group of three or more then there is a bug when one player leaves the game. Unfortunately I will not be able to fix this for a few weeks but I thought I would announce it in the mean time.
Sorry about the quality of the video. I only had the garbage software that came preinstalled on my machine and I could do with a better graphics card / microphone.
I hope many of you find this to be a useful tool to improve your game and to have some fun with.
This is nice but a bit overly complicated for what i seek, is there just a simple map with restart option only that records the build i do? I hate the tools reminding me of my build or where i can load builds because i make them myself anyway but a nice quick restart option that puts the build into a nice supply format afterwards would be great tool for helping to write a guide. (or is this already possible with sc2gears?) I don't really like the standard build order format given in the ending screen and i'd like to be able to restart a bit quicker.
On June 21 2013 03:05 wUndertUnge wrote: Has anyone utilzied this yet? It looks like there was a lot of effort put in. I tried it once, but didn't get very far...
Hi wUndertUnge,
There are plenty of people who have sent me their testimonials, so I can assure you it has helped people (even some comments from pros and semi pros). It's still not what I would call "popular" yet but I believe it is the most popular BO tester atm.
I'm curious what you mean that you didn't get very far. If you had trouble finding the maps they are listed under "custom maps" not under "arcade". Also if you could not select a starting location you need to change the setting to "allow enemy unit selection" (on EU it does this automatically but NA versions have not been updated for that yet). By far most people already have that setting enabled so I only realized recently that it may cause confusion for some.
If you mean that you found it clunky or not very helpful that's different. I took a break after the last release but there are a bunch of plans to integrate it into the game more seamlessly making it cleaner, simpler and more functional. To stay tuned you can subscribe to the project page on TL. That way I won't be spamming the general discussion forums unless there is a big announcement.
The site is run by a different person and appears to be broken.
For the moment you will have to create a build yourself with the in game build editor. Go "menu->build orders->create new build" and you can make a build order to play.
There are many shortcomings of this mod which I am adressing in the coming months. SALT is undergoing a massive overhual and will be coming out bigger, better, more user friendly and looking a lot more professional and polished. But it will take me probably half a year to complete at the rate I'm going.
A few days ago I started a blog where I'll be giving details of progress and posting screenshots. If you're interested in keeping up to date with the project you can subscribe to my teamliquid blog here http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/SALT
EDIT: This is a big part of why I wanted to start the blog. To talk about changes and discuss my descission process without having to spam the forums. That just anoys people who don't care. I'll save the forum posts for bigger anouncements.
Thanks for your reply. Hope the development process will be smooth and you'll enjoy the process. I'm not sure what's your view on this, but would it make sense to open source the project and maybe create a small community that could hack away at this really great idea that you have?
I love this mod! Really good work. It was a great idea to turn it into a MOD instead of having it on the arcade. (It took me some searching on the web to find out what had happened to it, since most info pointed to the arcade and there was nothing )
One question, is the AI supposed to work? It doesn't seem to be working for me. The workers just mine and the AI doesn't seem to do anything else.
When you play vs computer it loads the standard Blizzard AI which expects a standard ladder game experience. So SALT confuses the hell out of it and it doesn't know what to do. I'm currently working on creating my own custom AI named Leonardo (he was the tactician from the Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles) which is capable of following and copying build orders and using them against you. This AI will be compatible with SALT however it's still heavily in development and won't come out till next year. It's a shame that some of the other AIs projects kind of disapeared, I would love to see Leonardo face off against other AIs in an AI battle.
Also just a warning but there is a bug where sometimes (about 30% of the time) loading the game does not work when one or more players are Zerg. loading back to the begining works fine though. I think I know what is causing it but the patch won't be out for at least another week.
I will be using it extensively. The build order customization options are great.
So I should not expect to be able to play a game using SALT, just practice my build orders, right? (Have tried terran vs protoss and the protoss AI does nothing at all).
Another question, is there a place where I can find the specifications for the YABOT build order format or some editor/converter or a repository? All the sites that existed that had anything to do with YABOT build orders seem to have gone down. sc2builds.com is up and running but does not have YABOT format build orders, just displays them as formatted text on the webpage.
Thank you very much for your great work. It is well appreciated!
That means that you can get other people into the game and you can both practice against each other. You can invite as many people as can fit in the game, so if it is a 4 spawn map you can fit up to 4 human players in the game. The other players will just be observers by defualt but you can swap players around using the swap function in the menu. Then observers can become the players and vice versa. But for the moment the computer AI doesn't know what to do so it doesn't do anything. That's fine though, doesn't stop you practicing your build.
I have the specs for the YABOT format. SALT still works with YABOT encoded strings but I've moved away from it and started using my own format, imaginatively called "SALT format v1". I can give you links for info if you want.
When you use the built in editor in SALT to create a build order ("menu->build orders->create new build") you should find a button which says "export" that will show you the string for that build. Just copy it using ctrl-c and then you can share it with others. go menu->build orders->import and paste in that string.
Whenever you create a new build order I recomend you export it to string and save in a text file on your computer. That way the next time you use SALT you can import it imediately without having to create it again from scratch. (I wish people wouldn't have to do this work around, but unfortunately it is due to a blizzard bug where banks don't work for extension mods)
I would like to see the specs for your SALT format, I might just code a converter (online or stand alone) to translate from common build order formats into SALT, and share it with the community.
Everyone, I've recieved a bunch of questions about SALT lately (probably because there was a glimpse of it in JaKaTaKs new video (great vid btw).
So it's about time I made an FAQ. If you have questions or don't know what it is try looking here: SALT FAQ
drKobalt, SALT is backwards compatible with the YABOT encoding but there are some major shortcomings with the YABOT format. If you're interested in how I format the string you can take a look here where I was discussing it with another person looking to use it.
If you make some builds using the inbuilt editor PM them to me and I'll add them to the default ones.
I created a Build Order and was able to use it while in the session. However, when I closed out of SC2 and later reopened it, my build order no longer was there and had to be recreated. Did I miss a step to preserve the build order? For now I just recreated the BO and exported it to string and save it in notepad...
On August 12 2014 12:25 EscPlan9 wrote: I created a Build Order and was able to use it while in the session. However, when I closed out of SC2 and later reopened it, my build order no longer was there and had to be recreated. Did I miss a step to preserve the build order? For now I just recreated the BO and exported it to string and save it in notepad...
Unfortunately there is a bug in Battlenet. This is on Blizzards end and there is nothing I, nor any other map makers can do about it. So for now no extension mods are unable to save information between sessions.
The work around is exactly what you did. export it and save it in notepad. The only other alternative is for me to personally add build orders into the mod but there are too many for me to keep up with.
If you send me the string for your build then I can put it in SALT so everyone can see/use it by default. I recently created three build orders from Minigun for Protoss but I haven't gotten around to putting them in yet. If you are Protoss then try these out. (BO names link to pictures showing off different ways to customize the build order)
I've actually done a major patch since your post. Behind the scenes I did a MAJOR rewrite and clean up of a lot of stuff.
One of the biggest changes you'll notice is audio prompts to talk you through the build you're following as well as a few more builds added in by default.
Most of the work on this patch was behind the scenes and you won't notice except for the things it fixed. It fixed a few bugs but more importantly it made it so I will be able to patch and expand SALT much much quicker from now on whenever I want to add a feature or fix a problem. It might have a few kinks I haven't yet discovered but I should get them patched up as soon as they get reported.
How has this extension not gotten more attention?
Well, it's been around for ages and has gone through periods where I've been maintaining it and periods where I've had to abandon it due to other commitments. When I was starting I had other people offering to help or team up with me and I declined wanting all the control and glory to myself. How egotistical and naive of me! But you live and learn from your mistakes.
Also I'm yet to do a promotion or sexy demo video. I've only released 10minute long tutorials of myself talking. It's hard to get people to listen to you for 10 minutes. I plan to release a 3 minute clip showcasing the essentials with lots of music and explosions in the near future.
For comparrissons sake, this is the OLD function for loading the game: http://pastebin.com/LRNjcgcC which is 554 lines long.
This is the newer, leaner version: http://pastebin.com/cvbRwwPF and is only 65 lines long. So it does everything the old version did and more, it's just better written and is more robust. There was a lot of cleanups like that I had to do to make the project managable for one person.
Again, just more experience and learning from mistakes as I go.
I recently started to use this, it's brilliant! Since a few days ago (patch, I think) it's been spewing orange text all down the side (looks like debug output). Still seems to work fine, just annoying. Any idea what's happening?
I recently started to use this, it's brilliant! Since a few days ago (patch, I think) it's been spewing orange text all down the side (looks like debug output). Still seems to work fine, just annoying. Any idea what's happening?
I'm on SEA btw.
Oops! Sorry about that!
It's only on the SEA server. I'll have it fixed by this afternoon.
With the LOTV alpha mod coming out I've been doing some work to make SALT compatible with it. So whenever the LOTV mod hits the scene (probably within a week) you should be able to use SALT to practice LOTV build orders! More news on this to come...
You were correct about the orange text, it's debugging output. Since SEA is so much smaller than the other servers I've been using it as a live testing ground and I obviously left the debugging text in.
If there's any more problems on the SEA over the next few days it's probably my mistake. The other servers will be untouched though.
endless oceans of strategy, mechanics that nobody has learned and build orders you've only never even dreamed about await just round the corner...
The best way to create a map for yourself in these uncharted waters? SALT.
Which is why I have released the newest version of SALT with LOTV compatibility. Just watch the demo to see how you can use SALT to practice LOTV alpha build orders as well as practice new engagements and battles against your friends:
The LOTV extension mod is called "LotV Custom - Unofficial Fan Alpha". Once you click on the SALT maps just click play with extension mod and search for "LOTV" on any server. It will show up.
If you have any problems with the LOTV mod on NA try another server, there have been some problems on NA lately.
there is an important change to note, You should use the custom maps section to access the maps with SALT on it, otherwise it will create an issue with your banks. I will make sure that the maps available there are up to date with ladder/tournaments.
how do i get this BO into the YABOT string so i can easily practice it?
METHOD 1: (old method)
1) while in game go menu->build orders->create new build order 2) input the steps of the build order 3) (optional) go menu->build orders->select build order. find the build order in the list and hit the export button and it will give you the string
I say step 3 is optional because you would only have to do it if you use the SALT extension mod. please DO NOT use the extension mod because extension mods are broken (due to a Blizzard bug). I will be removing SALT from the extension mod section once everyone has transitioned away from it (or if the bug is patched).
Instead, you should go into custom games and search for SALT and there will be one SALT map for each ladder map. Play that instead and any build orders you create will be saved for next use. Then you only need to do steps 1 and 2. No more needing to import/export all the time!
METHOD 2: (new way)
I'm not telling
Sorry for being a tease but I'm about to announce a new way in which you can import a build order in a matter of seconds from any game you see :D There'll be a video out real soon explaining it.
Also I wanted to continue the age old SC2 tradition of making an announcement of an announcement. I'll get back to you soon on that one.
Jumping into a game and practicing a pro build order in < 10 seconds
The video says it all.
Step 1)
search spawningtool.com for build orders you want to learn.
search for your favourite player and try your best to match his timings.
watch a Day[9] daily about a replay and go over it in game.
etcetc... If the replay is not listed you can upload the replay yourself. Only takes a few seconds.
Step 2) Load up SALT and go into menu->build orders->import and copy/paste the string you got from the website.
Step 3) There is no step 3, it's just that easy :D
One thing I might recomend differently than the video is that you can search for SALT in the custom games list (as opposed to extension mods). It's the same thing but the advantage is that any customizations and build orders that you do will be saved for you next time you play. The disadvantage is that you only have a limited map pool to play on. So the choice is yours which option you prefer.
Great Mod, but I just created my own Buildorder and have 3 Suggestions:
1) Just a notification based on the supply or the time, like "Move Overlord XY" or "Stop producing drones" 2) Actions based on other events like "100 Gas" or "200 Minerals". Example: "@100 Gas: Lair" 3) Specify the amount. When you have to build 5 Overlords, then you don't have 5 elements in the list, just "Overlord (5)". If you build one, it's counting down.
I have a question. I've imported several builds from the spawning tool and tried them out. But 1) not all steps get an audio comand (audio build) and 2) sometimes they do but with delay 30-40 sec. I was trying it out and at some point realized that refinery is late and on a card it should've been built 30 sec ago - and then after 10 sec goes audio "build a refinery".
And also two requests: 1. can you do an only-audio feature (audio build with no card, no vizualisinng) 2. also a feature when an audio command goes a few second earlier - so that there is some time to perform it?
Thank you a lot for this new oppurtunity to learn SC2!
1) Just a notification based on the supply or the time, like "Move Overlord XY" or "Stop producing drones" 2) Actions based on other events like "100 Gas" or "200 Minerals". Example: "@100 Gas: Lair" 3) Specify the amount. When you have to build 5 Overlords, then you don't have 5 elements in the list, just "Overlord (5)". If you build one, it's counting down.
1) I would like to allow people to put comments in their build so they can set whatever reminders they want in there. Also they could chose from a list of predefined commands such as "attack your opponent", "stop producing workers", "take map control" etc. I already have the audio for these commands recorded but I haven't built them into the mod yet.
2) When you add a step to the build order you can set supply and time to zero and SALT will ignore the time and supply requirement. It will wait till you have the resources available before telling you to do that step.
3) I would like to. But it would be a big task and involve rewritting a lot of code for it to work so it's a daunting challenge. Also it would be easy if the player is manually creating a build like you are but if they are importing a build from spawningtool or if I get around to players being able to record their build as they play it would be tricky figuring out how to do it. If they build 2 roaches, an extractor, another roach, a queen and a 4th roach how should that be displayed. Theres's no simple answer as to how best to do that.
I have a question. I've imported several builds from the spawning tool and tried them out. But 1) not all steps get an audio comand (audio build) and 2) sometimes they do but with delay 30-40 sec. I was trying it out and at some point realized that refinery is late and on a card it should've been built 30 sec ago - and then after 10 sec goes audio "build a refinery".
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
So you may have a scenario such as a build order step saying to build a barracks at 40 supply and 5 minutes. This build was copied from a pro replay so they are obviously better at macro than us mortals so that's the supply they had. However when we play it we might only have 32 supply at the 5 minute mark so SALT will wait for you to macro up a bit to 40 supply before telling you to build the barracks.
If the next step is a refinery like your example it might wait till you have enough resources to build the refinery but you built an extra worker instead so you can't afford it. SALT will wait till you have the 75 minerals required before instructing you to build the refinery.
Another scenario might be that the next step is a marauder. SALT will wait till you have both a free baracks and a tech lab before giving you the instruction to build a marauder. Otherwise it would just tell you to build one but there's nothing you can do. So if you keep queuing up marines instead, it will never give you the marauder instruction.
The other possibility is that it's my fault and there's a problem with SALT. If you experience the audio missing or going off when you think it shouldn't if you could send me the replay file that would really help me fix the issue. PM me and I'll give you an email address you can send the replay to
I tried to do what I could to make the audio commands relevant to what the player is doing at the time instead of stringently sticking to the build order. That way I think it can best help people through the build from the beginner who is 5 minutes behind on the build they are learning to the expert who is perfecting it. Both players will get the audio reminder as it becomes relevant.
And also two requests: 1. can you do an only-audio feature (audio build with no card, no vizualisinng) 2. also a feature when an audio command goes a few second earlier - so that there is some time to perform it?
1) Go to menu-> SALT options -> build order options. There you can set up all sorts of options to set the display as you like. You could even change the x and y positions on the screen to make it be off screen if you want it to disapear completely.
My prefered location is to set the location to bottom left, display about 4 steps and change x and y such that the build is displayed between the minimap and the unit wire frames. Theres a big dead space there in the games UI which is nothing but blackness and the build fits nicely into the UI there. You don't even notice it unless you are looking for it. (also remember to use the custom games and not the extension mod if you want the settings to be saved, that way you don't have to set it up each time).
2) Actually SALT already does this too. it gives you the instruction a few seconds before it is relevant. For example it will tell you at 4:55 to build a factory which is due at 5:00, wait till you have approx 180 minerals before telling you to build a spawning pool (200 minerals) or wait until that last marine queued in the barracks is 95% complete before telling you to build a new one.
Thanks for suggestions guys. They help. There's a lot of ideas people have given me that could improve SALT that I never would have thought of myself.
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Oh, this is all so close to perfection. )) About this 5 things. There was a time when my build order was on a paper - with exact time, supply, and there was each worker that I had to build. Actually it was very helpful but slightly inconvenient since I had to distract attention to check out before the next step. So, the dream-idea "what if this would be with audio commands' came. Trying it out I was behind after 3-4 min.mark but all the same, tried to match each time and supply. And then I would restart and next time it would be better.
So, what I'm saying is that I would really like an option to somehow include the priority: - Audio command goes when (for instance) time-mark is hit - regardless of what supply or have/do not a resources...
It's just the way that in my opinion is more efficient to learn a build order.
P.s. About comments to steps such as "stop producing workers' or "send a worker to scout" or "switch factory-starport to reactor" is really good thought!
2) When you add a step to the build order you can set supply and time to zero and SALT will ignore the time and supply requirement. It will wait till you have the resources available before telling you to do that step.
Yeah, just noticed that after a while
3) I would like to. But it would be a big task and involve rewritting a lot of code for it to work so it's a daunting challenge. Also it would be easy if the player is manually creating a build like you are but if they are importing a build from spawningtool or if I get around to players being able to record their build as they play it would be tricky figuring out how to do it. If they build 2 roaches, an extractor, another roach, a queen and a 4th roach how should that be displayed. Theres's no simple answer as to how best to do that.
As a software developer I understand your problems. It's just a "Nice to have" not a "Must have"
But that brings me to another suggestion: How about create your build by just playing it? For every step you make, the mod creates a new step in the build order with the current time and supply.
Hi Turtles! Thx for the amazing work... i have problems to practice against a specific AI, like GTAI develop by NeoBlade,,, because the IA make nothing she stay in 6 workers then i can practice my BO but i dont have a challenger to simulate some scenarios like 3 hatch before pool against Blink stalker....any chance that you can fix this bug... :D
How about create your build by just playing it? For every step you make, the mod creates a new step in the build order with the current time and supply.
Will probably be the next feature I implement. It will be easy to do from a technical perspective. The UI I'm not so sure about. Maybe a button in the menu like menu->build orders->record. Then the build order is displayed like normal except starts blank and steps get added on as you make them, and has a pause button so you can stop recording. I would have to see if refreshing the display caused any lag but it should be fine.
Hi Turtles! Thx for the amazing work... i have problems to practice against a specific AI, like GTAI develop by NeoBlade,,, because the IA make nothing she stay in 6 workers then i can practice my BO but i dont have a challenger to simulate some scenarios like 3 hatch before pool against Blink stalker....any chance that you can fix this bug... :D
Thanks Deimos,
AIs are designed to play a normal game of starcraft. But with a map like SALT which lets you manipulate the game through the menu the AI does not know what's going on. It gets confused and is not sure what to do so it does nothing.
I am working on my own AI project. Since it shares a lot of code with SALT the two projects will be compatible but my AI project is still in the development stage and won't be complete for a verry, verry long time.
On January 06 2015 09:19 Deimos wrote: Hi Turtles! Thx for the amazing work... i have problems to practice against a specific AI, like GTAI develop by NeoBlade,,, because the IA make nothing she stay in 6 workers then i can practice my BO but i dont have a challenger to simulate some scenarios like 3 hatch before pool against Blink stalker....any chance that you can fix this bug... :D
Hi, Deimos! Actually it's better to practice in a less stressful situation - even not controlling your army at all, just focusing on a build. It's just that most of us get boring and try to practice along playing ladder, and even ver.AI an effect is not good 'cause you first need to refine your macro of a build and only after that (when macro is soild) controlling an army. It's of course my opinion and you would better know for yourself.
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Oh, this is all so close to perfection. )) About this 5 things. There was a time when my build order was on a paper - with exact time, supply, and there was each worker that I had to build. Actually it was very helpful but slightly inconvenient since I had to distract attention to check out before the next step. So, the dream-idea "what if this would be with audio commands' came. Trying it out I was behind after 3-4 min.mark but all the same, tried to match each time and supply. And then I would restart and next time it would be better.
So, what I'm saying is that I would really like an option to somehow include the priority: - Audio command goes when (for instance) time-mark is hit - regardless of what supply or have/do not a resources...
It's just the way that in my opinion is more efficient to learn a build order.
P.s. About comments to steps such as "stop producing workers' or "send a worker to scout" or "switch factory-starport to reactor" is really good thought!
OK. Aside from a priority-option for audio. I'm playing now and there is something wrong with audio. I decided that even without a priority-option there won't be a big deviation form build order but it seems that audio sometimes just won't go.
Here what happens, comparing time-supply-resources. Build order: Barracks-2:32-14-150 miner I have: 3:00-17-235 miner
So, and audio doesn't say to build barracks wich is strange. You said about previous steps. So previous was - build a CC. It's building currently. Question: does an audio WAITS TILL THE CC IS DONE? If so it's annoying...
Here what happens, comparing time-supply-resources. Build order: Barracks-2:32-14-150 miner I have: 3:00-17-235 miner
So, and audio doesn't say to build barracks wich is strange. You said about previous steps. So previous was - build a CC. It's building currently. Question: does an audio WAITS TILL THE CC IS DONE? If so it's annoying...
It won't wait till the CC is finished. The step before is the CC so it will wait till you begin construction before telling you to build a barracks.
I've played through that build order 4 times this afternoon. Experimented a little bit trying to get it to fail but each time it played the audio instructions when it should have. I couldn't reproduce the problem but if it happens again could you save the replay for me? it would help to be able to see it happen in action.
I'll PM you my email address just in case you have the replay saved from last time.
Thanks for making this tool, It's great and I really enjoy it!
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
On January 08 2015 06:27 FightinGandhi wrote: Thanks for making this tool, It's great and I really enjoy it!
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
I use even "the core" hotkey setup and in SALT didn't have to change anything, works fine. However, maybe, it impacts only a customization of the default setup, don't know... or if we create a new hotkey-profile than it doesn't any changes in SALT.
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Part of availability is that it will wait till you have the dependencies before giving you the audio command. For instance it will wait till you have a completed factory before telling you to build hellions.
What you were doing was lowering your supply depots when they are built. However I've now discovered that SC2 considers supply depots and lowered supply depots to be two seperate types of buildings. So when it was time to build a barracks SALT was looking for the dependency (supply depots) and failing that it was waiting instead. It would eventually tell you to build the barracks when you built your second supply depot which was raised. It was confusing to figure out the problem but an easy fix once I saw what was going on. It now looks for EITHER a lowered OR a raised supply depot.
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
You must mean the hotkeys for control groups, correct?
If you use [ and ] for control groups then they are probably not be saving/loading. I've never heard of anyone having this problem before, I guess everyone else uses letters, numbers or F1-F12 keys for control groups. Changing the bank won't help you because you'll still have the same problem.
I'll just have to add support for the [];',./-=` keys in SALT.
I'll work on some of the changes suggested in these last posts but won't be able to start on them till next week.
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
You must mean the hotkeys for control groups, correct?
If you use [ and ] for control groups then they are probably not be saving/loading. I've never heard of anyone having this problem before, I guess everyone else uses letters, numbers or F1-F12 keys for control groups. Changing the bank won't help you because you'll still have the same problem.
I'll just have to add support for the [];',./-=` keys in SALT.
I'll work on some of the changes suggested in these last posts but won't be able to start on them till next week.
Wow thank you that would be awesome. And yea it's a problem for saving and loading and I do for control groups. Someone above me said it works with The Core But I don't see how that would be any different, maybe he was wrong and it doesn't save and load hotkeys. But anyways if you are adding the other keys you may want to include backspace if possible because the core uses that. I'm just offering a suggestion though I don't use backspace myself but it may help someone else!
Go into custom games and search for SALT. There should be a bunch of ladder maps that come up with the prefix SALT, eg SALT metalopolis.
Don't bother using the extension mod unless you really want to play a particular map which has not been SALT-ified. Extension mods are broken and cannot save data properly. This Blizzard bug has been around since extension mods were introduced. Nothing we can do except wait for Blizzard to fix it.
In the mean time, use the method above, that will solve your problem.
IN OTHER NEWS...
I told people I would be doing work on SALT and haven't been living up to my promises. Sorry bout that. Will try and get more stuff done soon.
ANY and ALL hotkeys are now accepted for control groups making it compatible with the Core layout or any other custom hotkey setup. That even goes for you people with non-english keyboards with characters I've never even heard of before.
Same as before to get to them. Go menu->SALT options->hotkeys->control groups and you will be greeted with this screen:
Once you click a control group it will prompt you for input. Press the key you use for that control group and it will record it for later use.
Remember to use SALT through one of the versions in custom games list and you can skip this step from then on. If you use the extension mod you will need to do this step at the start of every game.
Also rock towers are fixed and work properly now (but their not very common on maps now days so I guess it wasn't that big a deal?)
If you experience any issues please get back to me. Chances are someone else is also frustrated with the same issue and I can't know about it if no one tells me.
I never intended this thread to be for regular updates of the mod. But there are a bunch of people discussing these issues just above so I thought it topical. As well as many people who have commented on this thread and will be following it hence they will be notified.
I don't intend on posting regularly to here unless I have a BIG announcement. I hate to think that I am spamming the general forum with content that doesn't belong here. If you want me to cut it out and post about it to the custom maps section only then I totally understand and will do so.
I am wondering if it would be possible to have this mod accept a replay as input instead of, or as an option to, accepting Yabot strings. Basically, you would find a replay on a site like spawningtool and then download it. Once in your mod (or the map version) you would point it at the replay instead of pasting in the string. SALT could then extract the player names and races. The player using the tool (or players) could select which player they want to be, the build is extracted -- fully -- and then play can start. You would not need to click in the "specify your race" circles in the spawning location since the replay indicates that already. (in fact, clicking this is sort of weird as it is since the build you import is always race specific)
What do you think? Wouldn't this make it possible to bring in a full build instead of limiting it to a partial build like now? For example, when I try to bring in an Innovation 3CC TvZ build it gets cut off at around the 8 minute mark, well before there is even a starport built!
I love the idea of the tool and am getting good use out of it, but it is a little weird using the prompts for the first 8 minutes and then a notepad for the next 5 minutes. Especially since that last 5 minutes is when the income really spikes, the production really kicks in, and you need to multitask the attack, production, and taking the third.
It seems that even inside the mod, or map, you are limited in how long the build can be. Why? Is this because you are saving the build internally using the yabot (or custom) string format and limiting yourself on the length there as well?
At the very least, when I use the map version, and therefore getting my build saved with the map, I would like to have my build be longer in length. I wouldn't think you would need to artificially cap the string length at this point. Only if a user asks to "export" the build would you truncate the string to the appropriate length.
Mods do not have access to the file system and cannot read files on your computer (which is a good thing, otherwise I could make a mod which reads your browser history or looks at your emails etc). A mod only has limited access to a specific text only file.
I wish you could import more than 255 characters at a time. It's a silly Blizzard limitation do you mind linking me the build you're refering to? Most builds manage to fit more in but I'm guessing that one is worse than others.
If I may make a suggestion... when you select a build order to play through "menu->build orders->select" there is a button which says "edit" where you should be taken to the in game editor. Here you will be able to manually add steps to the build order for example add when the starport gets built.
You say that the length of the build is limited inside the game as well? That should not be the case. If that is true then that must be a mistake on my behalf and I will have a look and fix it. I thought the limit was something like 100 steps but maybe it is set at 50 by mistake. That I CAN change.
Since this is on the front page again I can post guilt free without worrying about cluttering up the forums and necro-ing threads :D
Some news events for those not 100% up to date:
ITEM 1
SALT and Spawningtool.com teamed up! which means that finding and playing a build order has never been simpler! I'll let JaKaTaK do the talking on this one because he puts things better than I ever could:
I think I finally figured out a way to automatically detect what a players control group hotkeys are. Once implemented people with custom hotkeys for control groups will no longer have to faff about setting it up properly or be confused why it doesn't work.
ITEM 3
I'm building an AI!
It was origionally going to be something small to help you practice in SALT but it grew and is now a fully fledged AI project! And it's cool, because AIs are cool... right up to when they try and enslave humanity... possibly even then too if they look cool like terminators.
Here is a demo of the current state of the AI project (heavily in development)
This is built ontop of SALT so the two will be compatible when finished. But I will also release as a standalone thing so you can play a normal game with/against it without chosing start locations or any of that stuff.
Question, how come the AI needs to scout when it knows everything about the game anyways? Solely as an attempt to make it seem more human?
If you can proceed with this line of thinking, you will be a god if you can manage to get an AI to undergo and respond to cheese and harassment like a normal human would. I've yet to see an AI that doesn't just turtle in its base and deathball it across the map.
On May 22 2015 14:09 ElMeanYo wrote: Question, how come the AI needs to scout when it knows everything about the game anyways? Solely as an attempt to make it seem more human?
This AI does not know everything about the game. It can only make descissions based on what it has observed.
You're right in that I COULD let it know everything on the map if I chose to do so. It's like working through maths problems in a textbook. Sure, the answers are right there in the book. It would be pretty easy to just look at them and get 100% on every question but there is no point to doing that. So instead I'm going to cover up the answers and try and work through the problem myself.
I'm chosing to not cheat so that it can compete with other people on an even playing field.
Most rts AIs have to cheat otherwise they are easy to beat. If this AI is not challenging enough I may have to let it cheat a bit like the others but I would probably give it money hacks, or maybe slightly faster production times rather than map hacks to make it more realistic.
At the moment there is no cheating going on. I'll be open sourcing the project within a week or two so others can see for themselves if they want.
Sorry I'm struggling with this - I search for the map in custom games but only old versions come up, none of the ones mentioned on the first page. I am on EU. How do I get SALT?
try the extension mod. select whichever map you want in custom games (for example Blizzard ladder maps) and click on the add extension mod button. Then search for SALT. I just updated it now for you, it was previously a few months old so the mod should have todays date as the publish date.
Let me know if that doesn't work out for you and I'll take a closer look.
I know I've said previously that there is a Blizzard bug in how Bnet handles extension mods and so playing the maps with SALT already added is better than using the extension mod feature. HOWEVER, releasing new versions of every map with SALT on every server is a job which can take up an entire afternoon/evening and is the most tedious job imaginable. So keeping the maps up to date is not possible for me anymore. Keeping just the extension mod up to date only takes 10 minutes, so the extension mod is naturally going to be more up to date.
Hello Turtles, thank you so much for this wonderful tool you have created! I really believe it is a tool that will eventually become a must when some more features are added either in the SALT tool itself or in the Spawning Tool that is linked to it. I tried using it recently and noticed that whenever I reload my game from a given slot, I end up losing my control groups! Strangely enough, my camera location hotkeys remain though ... now I read this on your post:
«I think I finally figured out a way to automatically detect what a players control group hotkeys are. Once implemented people with custom hotkeys for control groups will no longer have to faff about setting it up properly or be confused why it doesn't work.»
So I believe from what I read that this problem is currently being fixed? Or am I using the wrong version of SALT?
«You say that the length of the build is limited inside the game as well? That should not be the case. If that is true then that must be a mistake on my behalf and I will have a look and fix it. I thought the limit was something like 100 steps but maybe it is set at 50 by mistake. That I CAN change.»
I experienced the same limitation!
And by the way, congratz on this AI; wow Blizzard should totally hire you for this! If we could finally get an AI that can really play a bit like a human ... that is, using certain guidelines but also adapting to what he scouts. If you turn this into a kickstarter or anything I will definitly contribute
Thanks for the feedback. SALT is not really playable without control groups, it's not worth it if you have to re add all your units every time you use a save slot.
To get around this SALT needs to know what hotkeys you use for control groups. It assumes that you use the default hotkeys (1-9) so anyone who uses the default hotkey setup does not have to do anything. As you use custom hotkeys for your control groups you need to go into menu->hotkeys->control groups and enter your control group hotkeys into the boxes.
If you are using the extension mod you have to do this at the start of every game. But that's ok, it only takes 1 minute and is very easy to do.
These are not due to bugs with SALT. This is due to bugs in the Blizzard software so there is nothing I can do to fix it.
I think I finally figured out a way to automatically detect what a players control group hotkeys are. Once implemented people with custom hotkeys for control groups will no longer have to faff about setting it up properly or be confused why it doesn't work.
Unfortunately that was a dead end. You need to follow the steps I mentioned above.
As for the limit in length to the build order you still cannot import a really long BO by spawningtool (again, this is a Blizzard bug. Fix yo damn bugs Blizzard!). But you can import a build order and then add steps to it if you wish. Or you can place the BO in your bank file manually and have a build as long as you want. I haven't covered how to do that and need to make an update post explaining how. But it will be a bit complicated, for simplicities sake I think most people will use the normal method for importing a build order even if it comes with a size limit.
On November 16 2015 12:34 Nabukadnezar wrote: Currently the SALT mod works with LOTV... Turtles... can you make it better though?
nope, can't be done, perfection can't be improved upon . But if you have a suggestion I'm open to it. + Show Spoiler +
I'm joking of course, there are plenty of improvements and features I would like to add / change
I will be maintaining, making small improvements and cleaning it up as time goes on. Most major work I'm doing in the editor will be based on the AI I'm currently writting.
On November 16 2015 12:34 Nabukadnezar wrote: Currently the SALT mod works with LOTV... Turtles... can you make it better though?
nope, can't be done, perfection can't be improved upon . But if you have a suggestion I'm open to it. + Show Spoiler +
I'm joking of course, there are plenty of improvements and features I would like to add / change
I will be maintaining, making small improvements and cleaning it up as time goes on. Most major work I'm doing in the editor will be based on the AI I'm currently writting.
I was playing it earlier today and when i hit reset it did not reset 1+ attack bio upgrade for terran.
Any other zerg players having larva troubles with SALT in Legacy? I'm only starting the match with two larva, instead of the three I'm supposed to get.
It kind of looks like the mod used to make your starting larva by using a queen's "Spawn Larva" command to make four and then it killed one of them to drop it to three, and that it's still doing that even though the queen only spawns three larva now anyway.
I got reports from other zerg players but did not have time to look into it to figure out what the problem was. I leave for holliday in 6 hours! But thanks to your post I knew what the problem was immediately and was able to fix it
It kind of looks like the mod used to make your starting larva by using a queen's "Spawn Larva" command to make four and then it killed one of them to drop it to three, and that it's still doing that even though the queen only spawns three larva now anyway.
You are entirely correct. I just had to remove the lines of code erasing one of the larva. Uploading the change now.
I'm going to be spending the next two weeks on an island in a tent with no computer, electricity, phone reception or roads.
If anyone has any further bug reports please send them in via carrier pidgeon. I will write my code corrections on paper and place it a bottle and throw it out to sea. Probably nobody will find my message in the bottle but it will make me feel better.
Sorry for the cross post everyone, but I thought it might be worth mentioning here that SCFusion (build order optimizer) now supports the SALT output format. You can find more details about the app in the forum below, but basically this allows you to determine the fastest way to achieve a certain build (ie, if you wanted to get 5 stalkers out in the fastest possible build), which you can then generate a SALT build for and then practice it in game.
Hey Turtles, I sent you some private messages, but I will reiterate in case anyone else is having the same troubles.
1) Great job! I can tell this took a lot of time and effort and I am really impressed with your work. I really appreciate everything you have done with this mod and how great it is.
2) I got the SALT string from Fast 3 CC - Bio Liberator, and it doesn't seem to be showing Reactor timings when playing with the SALT mod. I unfortunately do not know enough about the encoding to help, and I have been unable to find documentation on it. Anything I can do to solve this problem?
I managed to find the Reddit thread where you described the salt encoding. I tried to build out the encoding to the reactor and ended up with
%Test|||~* 1 /, H !, N ,/!;" /!=!(0!H #0!P /1”” )
Not really sure where i went wrong, but the reactor doesn't show up. It looks like This is version 5 of the encoding, with spawning tool spitting out version 4. That doesn't seem to look like it makes a difference, you probably just added any new buildings in alphabetical order to create the new encoding, which I think are none for LotV Terran.
%Test|||~* /+ !, ,/ " / !(0 #0 /1 1
This encoding for some reason gets to the reactor, I think I am just missing the documentation on updated versions.
* The adept attack upgrade on twilight council doesn't reset * when resetting the map, I can't get the new perm-chrono off of my original nexus. So I always have one extra than the total # of nexus
I am running into a bug or error by me that happens when I export a new build order then try to import the text string from a wordpad document.
I have tried this by searching a custom game for salt and using a salt map and also by searching for custom game with mod salt both give me the same problem.
I create a new build and it works fine. When I export the build and copy the string it shows all the units, buildings and upgrades written out. When I import the exported text string from my word document the copied text looks the same. Once I import the text string it then gives me a blue salt build order box the supply counts show as the build order was written but there is no text or icon telling you what to build. There is an ! In a box where the icon would be.
I then tried to export the build order to see what it would show and all the units, buildings and upgrades that were originally written out in the initial export were replaced with a single |
I am running into a bug or error by me that happens when I export a new build order then try to import the text string from a wordpad document.
fixed.
* The adept attack upgrade on twilight council doesn't reset * when resetting the map, I can't get the new perm-chrono off of my original nexus. So I always have one extra than the total # of nexus
fixed and fixed
Hey Turtles, I sent you some private messages, but I will reiterate in case anyone else is having the same troubles.
1) Great job! I can tell this took a lot of time and effort and I am really impressed with your work. I really appreciate everything you have done with this mod and how great it is.
2) I got the SALT string from Fast 3 CC - Bio Liberator, and it doesn't seem to be showing Reactor timings when playing with the SALT mod. I unfortunately do not know enough about the encoding to help, and I have been unable to find documentation on it. Anything I can do to solve this problem?
Thanks Also I'm pretty sure I PM'd you back but if not hopefully you see this. Also fixed.
Sometimes I can see the enemy main structure through fog of war - (lots of people)
Fixed... ( I think, I'm not 100% sure what was causing it in the first place but I haven't been able to reproduce it since I've made some changes)
I can "see" minerals through fog of war - (everyone)
I never really considered this a serious bug, more an annoyance due to a work around I had to do... but it is "fixed" now anyway because I found a better work around.
announcement:
I've asked Gillyweed to record sound files for the new units/buildings/upgrades to accompany all the other sound files which she generously provided. Which would be good because doing the audio myself would sound more like the squeeky voice teen kid from the simpsons which would kind of break immersion.
announcement of an announcement:
things are in place for a way in which authors of build order guides can interface with SALT to blur the lines between theory and practice to help players learn. More about this in the nearish future.
Thank you for your support and help bringing issues to light. You guys are the real MVP
Hi, I think I may have found a bug. When playing an AI game using the mod, they don't seem able to lose. I destroyed all of their bases and structures, and (as far as I could tell) all their units as well. After scouring the map for about 5 mins, I couldn't find any trace of them, and they refused to surrender. I was playing ZvT vs easy AI, with SALT mod (not the HOTS version). Is this a salt bug, an AI bug, or am I meant to be using the HOTS version? Cheers
The game doesn't end. This is intentional for people who are using it as a training tool. They can reset the game or load a saved point and keep practicing.
If the game ended people would have to leave and rejoin the map on bnet which would be a waste of their time considering they could just use the in game restart feature which takes a few seconds.
How's it going I am just begining to be a little more serious into playing statecraft 2 and I came across your video about the mod SALT I followed how to get started but I am not able to import the code ( it won't let me post in the box)is this a bug or am I doing something wrong. Please help
Just want to be clear on what you mean and what you did.
The "box" works like other text fields, like if you want to enter text into an online form or browser. first you have to click on the field so that it has focus and the cursor is activated inside that box.
If you did that did you notice if the text field works? can you type stuff into it? If you can enter text into the text field then you should be able to paste text from your clipboard. Make sure the text you want is copied to your computers clipboard correctly first by testing it out in notepad or other method.
Hopefully it's just something like you didn't realize you had to click on the box to enter text into it or didn't copy correctly from the website first. Just wanting to cover the basics first (I've had people say it didn't work only to discover they didn't know how to copy/paste text). If you have done these things then possibly Blizzard changed something in the latest big patch and I'll have to figure out what they changed that broke it.
Hi turtles - would it be okay if I used some SALT-derived code in a mod I'm working on? Just the save-and-load-bits, with some modifications.
I'll share the code back obviously. It's not really finished yet. So far I converted it to pure Galaxy and implemented something inspired by your control group idea. I also wanted to make the whole thing snappier, so I use different workarounds for larvae spawn and morphing. Not sure whether this will work in all cases, we'll see. Blizzard sure likes to make it challenging...
They sure do make things difficult there are so many workarounds and particular order to which things need to be done to accomplish the save/load bits.
You can use the code that's there. Just make available whatever code you build onto it. If you cleaned up the math and strings code and put them in proper libraries I've thought about sharing them on SC2mapster as they might appreciate some of the stuff.
Send me a link to your project if you have a thread about it as I'm curious about what you're up to.
I was practifing a build order the other day and somehow managed to crash the mod. Most of my units (like 95%) suddenly wouldn´t move or take any orders. I saved the replay, if you are interested in it. Should I provide it for you and how do I do so?
SALT is now a mod. There are a few individual maps floating around which I would like to remove to simplify things for people but they are literally years out of date. The only version of SALT which is maintained is the mod version which can be found in custom games.
The first post in this thread is now misleading but it is too old so the forum will not let me edit the origional post to reflect changes that have happened over time
thank you very much for making this amazing tool.
I was practifing a build order the other day and somehow managed to crash the mod. Most of my units (like 95%) suddenly wouldn´t move or take any orders. I saved the replay, if you are interested in it. Should I provide it for you and how do I do so?
Thank you for appreciating it
I would like to get hold of the replay if you still have it saved. I will PM you my email address and the same goes for anyone else who has a replay saved where something goes wrong. It's possible I will not be able to diagnose the problem off of a single replay but if it is a recurring problem it can be very useful to look at the all of the replays to isolate what they have in common and figure out what the cause might be.
Is this still maintained? If so I would have a feature request: Would it be possible to add the possibility to specify build orders based on resources instead of supply count? I personally don't like training on supply count because supply count is just a symptom of the build and only happens as described when you're left completely alone. If you're, say, fighting a reaper and trying to avoid losing a drone you're unlikely to be able to maintain the same supply count for everything but what is important is that the order of building is correct and resources are used when available.
Is this still maintained? If so I would have a feature request: Would it be possible to add the possibility to specify build orders based on resources instead of supply count? I personally don't like training on supply count because supply count is just a symptom of the build and only happens as described when you're left completely alone. If you're, say, fighting a reaper and trying to avoid losing a drone you're unlikely to be able to maintain the same supply count for everything but what is important is that the order of building is correct and resources are used when available.
Have you thought about using the Spawning Tool that TL got into a partnership with:
SALT has not been updated in at least a year by now (probably much longer, I'm honestly not sure) but I still recieve the occasional PM/email/enquiry from people wanting to know if there will be a new patch or making requests. It makes me so happy to know that something I created still has an effect even if I am no longer able to support it. But I think it's only fair to make it official instead of just ghosting everyone.
I would like to think I could come back any time and update/fix it some time in the future, however I've been thinking that for a good 2 years now and as time goes on that becomes less and less likely due to other factors in life. (and considering I'm about to become a first time parent my spare time is probably going to take a nose dive soon lol)
I started out tinkering for the pure enjoyment of tinkering and somehow a build order tool came out of that. I wanted it to be the best build order tool there ever was in SC2 and I'm proud because I think I succeeded at that (in my own humble opinion). Along the way I learned so many lessons that will always carry with me into anything I do in the future.
Thank you for your support to everyone who I worked with along the way like other modders, youtubers, collaborators, bug testers, etc. and thank you to people who have even just messaged me over the years to say "Hey, sweet mod dude". Now whenever there's a small indie podcast/channel/author/etc I'm really liking I make sure to drop them a message letting them know as a way to pay it forwards cause I know that's a big part of what keeps them going.
In other news I was a good deal of the way through writting an SC2 AI as well. I may continue tinkering with that to satisfy my own curiosity but I don't forsee it being ready for general consumption soon. And with Blizzard releasing an AI interface later this year there will probably be an SC2 AI boom in a years time anyway leading up to the google vs humanity showdown. I'll be watching and gladly cheering on the side of humanity robotic uprising with the rest of you.
Hey, i am really fascinated by the SALT-tool and use it a lot. I have the Problem that I can´t go over like 100Supply or a specific(high) numbers of steps.
Has anyone the same problem and maybe know how to fix it?
(Know it´s a build order Trainer and every late game is different but i would really like to play some games with the reaction of pros to specific situations)
EPT
LOTV fan mod has finally hit the streets ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CzhFlz1.jpg)
do you mind linking me the build you're refering to? Most builds manage to fit more in but I'm guessing that one is worse than others.
