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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 28 2013 23:47 Power[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 18:01 Patate wrote:On May 28 2013 17:50 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 17:47 Patate wrote:
Just some SC2 apologist stuff, just like when Artosis said SC2 was the best game ever made.
even if LoL is a "free" game, people spend way more than they would on SC2. once you get to Ranked games, you actually need to pay for some Riot Points because you will NEVER have the influence points (experience) to actually afford enough champions to be decent.
The whole PC bang doesn't say why LoL has DESTROYED SC2 in terms of popularity.. just being a free game is not it neither. Nice post, I have to agree with you (except on the IP stuff). I think it's possible to get enough champions to be decent in ranked, but most people will spend money on it anyway. I also feel that while this video has good points, it's also neglecting certain problems in the game Starcraft 2, which is probably the biggest cause as to why it's not a popular game. It's too easy to say certain games are more popular just because they are teamgames and because they are free to play. And for the record, I do play LoL but I do not really watch it because I don't feel like the players are doing inhuman mechanical prowess. They go around with their 50 APM and this kind of rustles me. However, for having taken a look at the All-star games last weekend in Shanghai (200k viewers just on Twitch, by the way), I feel the game has the magic and legendary feel that BW tournaments had. Also, I did not follow BW before playing SC2, so this is not really a nostalgic thing. But for the non-believers, please take a look at a BW OSL final on youtube. It's all in Korean, you don't know the players that much, but you can feel that this is legend in the making, not some other SC2 tournament whose winner will be destroyed by some foreigner next tournament. Yeah it is a shame that LoL doesn't require a lot of apm. I play LoL myself now as well and I was a high apm player in Brood War and Starcraft 2, but I could not really use it to my advantage in LoL. But the good side about it is that I had to learn a lot of new stuff in LoL, which made it a new challenge for me and that's what I like in games  And I think the LoL Tournaments are growing in excitement. The games are more exciting than before and some players are really establishing themselves in the scene. The players have their own unique playstyle for a certain role of the game (jungle, ad carry, mid etc) and it makes people look forward to see how an agressive jungler has an influence on the game against a passive jungler who makes his lanes stronger etc. The different type of plays and games is what attracts the people to watch it. It was the same in Brood War
Personally I feel Dota has more depth to it in the sense you just described but each man to himself.
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Every time this topic come I'm constantly amaze by how nobody seems to know exactly how sc2 in pc bangs work.
Sc2 is almost 3 years old now and I still never saw a clear cut answer to the following situation :
Let's say that I, who own the game, want to go with 3 friends, who doesn't own the game, in a pc bang to play some fun 2v2 games.
What happen exactly ? Can someone clear that up ?
Because by reading this thread I can come up with at least 3 scenario :
1) According to Kahldor video
You need to buy the game to be able to play in pc bang
You need a battlenet account
Result : I can't go at all in a pc bang to play with my friends who doesn't own the game.
2) According to MrHoon blog :
You don't need to buy the game.
You need to create a battlenet account (phone number + social security number)
Result : We can go to the pc bang. I use my own account, but we need to create 3 battlenet account for my friends. (we can do it inside the pcbang) It's quite an hassle because they need a phone number + social security number
3) By reading the post of Nazgul I would assume :
You don't need to buy the game.
You don't need to create a battlenet account
Result : We can go to the pc bang. I use my account and my friends use 3 premade account provided by the pc bang. We can start to play right now without any hassle.
Which one is correct ?
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On May 29 2013 00:19 Apolo wrote:
Entomb.
Entomb.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On May 29 2013 00:54 Arzar wrote:
Every time this topic come I'm constantly amaze by how nobody seems to know exactly how sc2 in pc bangs work.
Sc2 is almost 3 years old now and I still never saw a clear cut answer to the following situation :
Let's say that I, who own the game, want to go with 3 friends, who doesn't own the game, in a pc bang to play some fun 2v2 games.
What happen exactly ? Can someone clear that up ?
Because by reading this thread I can come up with at least 3 scenario :
1) According to Kahldor video
You need to buy the game to be able to play in pc bang
You need a battlenet account
Result : I can't go at all in a pc bang to play with my friends who doesn't own the game.
2) According to MrHoon blog :
You don't need to buy the game.
You need to create a battlenet account (phone number + social security number)
Result : We can go to the pc bang. I use my own account, but we need to create 3 battlenet account for my friends. (we can do it inside the pcbang) It's quite an hassle because they need a phone number + social security number
3) By reading the post of Nazgul I would assume :
You don't need to buy the game.
You don't need to create a battlenet account
Result : We can go to the pc bang. I use my account and my friends use 3 premade account provided by the pc bang. We can start to play right now without any hassle.
Which one is correct ?
I havent played SC2 in a long time in a pcbang but when I did (1 year ago) second one was true.
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The part where you say "I like Dota2 more than LoL" made me kinda cringe, but as for the rest, the vid is great.
I guess Korea is same to Ukraine and Russia, where people really rarely actually buy the games they play.
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On May 28 2013 17:57 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
diablo 3 held 1st place in most played game in pc bangs for several months ahead of LoL after its launch until the problems in the game (overpopulated servers and broken economy) killed it.
i doubt diablo 3 is free in kr.
And we'll see how well Diablo 3 is doing 2 years from now when it's 3 years old, like StarCraft 2 is now.
Probably not so hot.
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On May 28 2013 17:40 Power[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 08:42 Level10Peon wrote:On May 28 2013 06:45 Power[Xp] wrote:The players had more opportunity to shine with micro and split second decision making. Now I have to admit that I haven't watched Starcraft 2 in a year, but I was an active Brood War player for about 10 years and I played the first 2 years quite actively in the Starcraft 2 scene. This feeling for the players to shine is kind of what I missed in Starcraft 2. In Brood War players were able to develop a lot of unique styles. In Starcraft 2 there is also room for players to create a unique style, but they are getting more mainstream, due to the fact that there's less room for players to be a lot better at a certain aspect (micro, macro) compared to other players. This is because some elements in Starcraft 2 has just been made a lot less challenging compared to a game like Brood War. You can think about micro (max groups of 12) compared to unlimited groups, clustering, spamming storm with all your templars etc. or you can think about macro (selecting one building vs selecting all Barracks, Factory etc.). This also has an impact on multitasking. BW was more successful in Korea but (as Khaldor said) SC2 is more successful as an esport basically everywhere else in the world, where as BW had a very tiny, dedicated following outside of Korea. This leads me to believe that cultural and economic explanations are accurate, not the nostaliga-filtered memories of BW's UI and gameplay by foreigners. As an aside, I think it is unfair to compare micro and control for BW players 10 years after BW's release to SC2 players 2 years after release. I know it is unfair to compare the two, but you need to see the reason why I make the comparison. Maybe I wasn't clear in my explanation. I make the micro and mechanics comparison between the two games, because it explains why one game was more attractive to watch at compared to other games. Most people watch a game with a certain intention. They either like a certain team or player and want to see it for that reason or they expect to a certain player make an amazing play he's famous for. Here comes the reason for my comparison. There was simply more room in a game like Brood War to develop your own unique style and truly shine at it compared to Starcraft 2. And players with a unique style (like Boxer was always known for his outstanding micro and ballsy plays) attracts viewers. As to why Starcraft 2 is a bigger e-Sport outside Korea compared to Brood War, I think the reason is simple. First of all Starcraft 2 has been released in an era in which Blizzard has a lot more fame compared to the time they released Brood War. So the release of Starcraft 2 got a lot more attention. And I still believe Brood War was quite big outside of Korea, there was a huge player base. The difference was that in those years there weren't many gaming industries and companies outside Korea willing to invest into a game. There are a few exceptions (Counter Strike 1.6, Unreal Tournament and probably more games I forgot) that did get more sponsors and hence grew into big e-sports over the world. But to point out unfair comparisons, I think it is unfair to compare the release of a game in 1998 to the release of a game in 2010 (which builds forth on the fame of the prequel and the company that's releasing it), because during the time a lot has changed in the e-sports scene. And last I want to point out that it's not nostalgia-filtered memories that make the difference. Like I said, the game design and the depth of a game give players room to create their own unique style and to shine at certain aspects of the game. The room to make different types of plays is very important in keeping a game attractive.
Hmmmm, I didn't follow he BW scene very closely at all, I think I will tentatively agree with most of what you said, at least partially, so I'll just make two points:
1. As much as I love Starcraft 2, I agree there probably isn't enough room for ballsy plays and comebacks and unique micro plays in the late game, which most pro-level games reach (I think HoTS has done a good job of making the early and midgame more aggressive and dynamic, though. The last game of the Dreamhack finals between Leenock and Naniwa is still amazing to rewatch, for example).
Comebacks and gutsy plays are what I love about many "real" sports (base stealing in baseball, the last 5 minutes of a close american football game, etc). I'm not sure what can be done to create that in SC2, though whatever it is, I don't think it will look like BW, which leads me to my second point...
2. I think everyone agrees that the depth and difficulty of BW was largely an accident of the technology of the time and sheer luck on Blizzard's part. My impression of the original Starcraft was that it was made by a bunch of young game developers making a cool strategy game using science fiction cliches of the time who didn't think much of the competitive side. Could what people loved about BW be intentionally recreated? I kinda doubt it. It seems like when other developers have tried to recreate the "difficulty" that technological limitations caused in old games by accident, it doesn't go well.
Anyway, I love SC2 (and never cared for the "challenge" of overcoming tech limitations of old games, even at the time, though it is fun to watch I will grant) so I am very defensive when this comes up. Thanks for the measured response.
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On May 29 2013 00:26 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 23:47 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 18:01 Patate wrote:On May 28 2013 17:50 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 17:47 Patate wrote:
Just some SC2 apologist stuff, just like when Artosis said SC2 was the best game ever made.
even if LoL is a "free" game, people spend way more than they would on SC2. once you get to Ranked games, you actually need to pay for some Riot Points because you will NEVER have the influence points (experience) to actually afford enough champions to be decent.
The whole PC bang doesn't say why LoL has DESTROYED SC2 in terms of popularity.. just being a free game is not it neither. Nice post, I have to agree with you (except on the IP stuff). I think it's possible to get enough champions to be decent in ranked, but most people will spend money on it anyway. I also feel that while this video has good points, it's also neglecting certain problems in the game Starcraft 2, which is probably the biggest cause as to why it's not a popular game. It's too easy to say certain games are more popular just because they are teamgames and because they are free to play. And for the record, I do play LoL but I do not really watch it because I don't feel like the players are doing inhuman mechanical prowess. They go around with their 50 APM and this kind of rustles me. However, for having taken a look at the All-star games last weekend in Shanghai (200k viewers just on Twitch, by the way), I feel the game has the magic and legendary feel that BW tournaments had. Also, I did not follow BW before playing SC2, so this is not really a nostalgic thing. But for the non-believers, please take a look at a BW OSL final on youtube. It's all in Korean, you don't know the players that much, but you can feel that this is legend in the making, not some other SC2 tournament whose winner will be destroyed by some foreigner next tournament. Yeah it is a shame that LoL doesn't require a lot of apm. I play LoL myself now as well and I was a high apm player in Brood War and Starcraft 2, but I could not really use it to my advantage in LoL. But the good side about it is that I had to learn a lot of new stuff in LoL, which made it a new challenge for me and that's what I like in games And I think the LoL Tournaments are growing in excitement. The games are more exciting than before and some players are really establishing themselves in the scene. The players have their own unique playstyle for a certain role of the game (jungle, ad carry, mid etc) and it makes people look forward to see how an agressive jungler has an influence on the game against a passive jungler who makes his lanes stronger etc. The different type of plays and games is what attracts the people to watch it. It was the same in Brood War Personally I feel Dota has more depth to it in the sense you just described but each man to himself.
I have not played Dota myself and I have hardly seen any games of it. My old Brood War friends introduced me to LoL and for me it at least resembles a little of the feeling I had while playing Brood War. Of course I still love Brood War more. I can't really say anything about dota, sorry  I was just pointing out the differences I see in Brood War, LoL and Starcraft 2. But I would be happy to get to know more about Dota in comparison to those games.
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@SC2 / BW discussion
Apart from all the micro things, there's also just genuine variety problems in SC2. We don't need macro to be super demanding and annoying to get rid of the 3 base mineral income gap or the supercharged economy that means deathballs are 200/200, for example. Or to have terrain effects apart from walls that matter at the army level like high ground damage reduction. Those simple changes would allow for much more varied styles - mapmaking would open up with brood war -style ridges and other clever uses of open but advantaged or disadvantaged terrain, and you could hold deathballs with slightly-less-than-deathballs. Someone turtles up on 3 base? Just take all the bases and drown him.
Doesn't work now except perhaps with Ultralisk or Muta spam or super lategame Terran with a million Orbitals, because you can rapidly invest tons and thent tons of gas, which scales better than minerals, and because the deathball is 200/200, so you just can't pack more power than it at any point in time.
Then again, we still have a faction entirely predicated on gimmickry that breaks the fundamental mechanisms of RTS (hint, it's Toss, due to warpgates), we had serious suggestions for things like the Replicant, ages until Blizzard finally got the hint that an Oracle that makes stuff go boom is better than an Oracle that has a narrow gimmick spell. We have Vipers with a tele-yoink that really belongs in a MOBA and not an economy-focused RTS (The fact that the ability is playable says volumes). We have a friggin Tier 1 map editor. Because spammable, indestructible terrain that shunts things away has never been so healthy in a game where maps make a huge impact on balance.
It really is like Blizzard is designing for a MOBA or a single player game instead of a multiplayer RTS. And seeing them do it hurts.
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ignoring mechanic requirements
LoL is a more exciting game to watch and play than SC2
a big reason why is the process of snowballing or eventually winning the game
in LoL, one team might need 3 to 4 more positive engagements (random estimate) than the other team to get so far ahead that it is unlikely for the other team to get back into the game. so if one team needs 3 to 4 more positive engagements than the other team then that leaves more room for back and forth gameplay and the possibility to still be in the game.
in SC2, many many games are decided by 1 decisive engagement which either ends the game or gets 1 player so far ahead that the other player never catches up. a lot of this is due to SC2's mechanics. unlimited unit selection produces many engagements that are ball versus ball and SC2's easier macro mechanics allows a player to more easily maintain a lead.
I'd also love to see the Colossus replaced by the Reaver and the Lurker to replace the Lurker to promote more positioning and micro, but Blizzard's SC2 team has shown they want to put their own mark on the Starcraft series even if it makes the game less exciting to watch.
occasionally, SC2 produces some damn amazing games but more often than not, games are decided by 1 engagement which is boring to me.
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On May 29 2013 12:35 udgnim wrote:
ignoring mechanic requirements
LoL is a more exciting game to watch and play than SC2
a big reason why is the process of snowballing or eventually winning the game
in LoL, one team might need 3 to 4 more positive engagements (random estimate) than the other team to get so far ahead that it is unlikely for the other team to get back into the game. so if one team needs 3 to 4 more positive engagements than the other team then that leaves more room for back and forth gameplay and the possibility to still be in the game.
in SC2, many many games are decided by 1 decisive engagement which either ends the game or gets 1 player so far ahead that the other player never catches up. a lot of this is due to SC2's mechanics. unlimited unit selection produces many engagements that are ball versus ball and SC2's easier macro mechanics allows a player to more easily maintain a lead.
I'd also love to see the Colossus replaced by the Reaver and the Lurker to replace the Lurker to promote more positioning and micro, but Blizzard's SC2 team has shown they want to put their own mark on the Starcraft series even if it makes the game less exciting to watch.
occasionally, SC2 produces some damn amazing games but more often than not, games are decided by 1 engagement which is boring to me.
long time no see <3. You catch the All Stars weekend? That was quite something else. Still a big gap between the communities when it comes to that too, heh.
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Here's a question:
Back before SC2 was released, did the PC Bangs actually buy individual copies of BW for their computers?
Or did they just buy one copy?
Or did they just install a cracked version and patched it offline and just allowed everyone to LAN?
I'm thinking the latter because my friends and I used to just copy BW on a USB and you can play LAN straight from that.
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On May 29 2013 02:14 Power[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 00:26 Targe wrote:On May 28 2013 23:47 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 18:01 Patate wrote:On May 28 2013 17:50 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 17:47 Patate wrote:
Just some SC2 apologist stuff, just like when Artosis said SC2 was the best game ever made.
even if LoL is a "free" game, people spend way more than they would on SC2. once you get to Ranked games, you actually need to pay for some Riot Points because you will NEVER have the influence points (experience) to actually afford enough champions to be decent.
The whole PC bang doesn't say why LoL has DESTROYED SC2 in terms of popularity.. just being a free game is not it neither. Nice post, I have to agree with you (except on the IP stuff). I think it's possible to get enough champions to be decent in ranked, but most people will spend money on it anyway. I also feel that while this video has good points, it's also neglecting certain problems in the game Starcraft 2, which is probably the biggest cause as to why it's not a popular game. It's too easy to say certain games are more popular just because they are teamgames and because they are free to play. And for the record, I do play LoL but I do not really watch it because I don't feel like the players are doing inhuman mechanical prowess. They go around with their 50 APM and this kind of rustles me. However, for having taken a look at the All-star games last weekend in Shanghai (200k viewers just on Twitch, by the way), I feel the game has the magic and legendary feel that BW tournaments had. Also, I did not follow BW before playing SC2, so this is not really a nostalgic thing. But for the non-believers, please take a look at a BW OSL final on youtube. It's all in Korean, you don't know the players that much, but you can feel that this is legend in the making, not some other SC2 tournament whose winner will be destroyed by some foreigner next tournament. Yeah it is a shame that LoL doesn't require a lot of apm. I play LoL myself now as well and I was a high apm player in Brood War and Starcraft 2, but I could not really use it to my advantage in LoL. But the good side about it is that I had to learn a lot of new stuff in LoL, which made it a new challenge for me and that's what I like in games And I think the LoL Tournaments are growing in excitement. The games are more exciting than before and some players are really establishing themselves in the scene. The players have their own unique playstyle for a certain role of the game (jungle, ad carry, mid etc) and it makes people look forward to see how an agressive jungler has an influence on the game against a passive jungler who makes his lanes stronger etc. The different type of plays and games is what attracts the people to watch it. It was the same in Brood War Personally I feel Dota has more depth to it in the sense you just described but each man to himself. I have not played Dota myself and I have hardly seen any games of it. My old Brood War friends introduced me to LoL and for me it at least resembles a little of the feeling I had while playing Brood War. Of course I still love Brood War more. I can't really say anything about dota, sorry I was just pointing out the differences I see in Brood War, LoL and Starcraft 2. But I would be happy to get to know more about Dota in comparison to those games.
Not the person you're talking to but if you ever want to try out Dota 2, send me a PM on Teamliquid. I have about 6 keys that I really don't have use for so if you want to try it out with your friends they are yours!
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On May 29 2013 13:01 milkywaywu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 02:14 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 29 2013 00:26 Targe wrote:On May 28 2013 23:47 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 18:01 Patate wrote:On May 28 2013 17:50 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 17:47 Patate wrote:
Just some SC2 apologist stuff, just like when Artosis said SC2 was the best game ever made.
even if LoL is a "free" game, people spend way more than they would on SC2. once you get to Ranked games, you actually need to pay for some Riot Points because you will NEVER have the influence points (experience) to actually afford enough champions to be decent.
The whole PC bang doesn't say why LoL has DESTROYED SC2 in terms of popularity.. just being a free game is not it neither. Nice post, I have to agree with you (except on the IP stuff). I think it's possible to get enough champions to be decent in ranked, but most people will spend money on it anyway. I also feel that while this video has good points, it's also neglecting certain problems in the game Starcraft 2, which is probably the biggest cause as to why it's not a popular game. It's too easy to say certain games are more popular just because they are teamgames and because they are free to play. And for the record, I do play LoL but I do not really watch it because I don't feel like the players are doing inhuman mechanical prowess. They go around with their 50 APM and this kind of rustles me. However, for having taken a look at the All-star games last weekend in Shanghai (200k viewers just on Twitch, by the way), I feel the game has the magic and legendary feel that BW tournaments had. Also, I did not follow BW before playing SC2, so this is not really a nostalgic thing. But for the non-believers, please take a look at a BW OSL final on youtube. It's all in Korean, you don't know the players that much, but you can feel that this is legend in the making, not some other SC2 tournament whose winner will be destroyed by some foreigner next tournament. Yeah it is a shame that LoL doesn't require a lot of apm. I play LoL myself now as well and I was a high apm player in Brood War and Starcraft 2, but I could not really use it to my advantage in LoL. But the good side about it is that I had to learn a lot of new stuff in LoL, which made it a new challenge for me and that's what I like in games And I think the LoL Tournaments are growing in excitement. The games are more exciting than before and some players are really establishing themselves in the scene. The players have their own unique playstyle for a certain role of the game (jungle, ad carry, mid etc) and it makes people look forward to see how an agressive jungler has an influence on the game against a passive jungler who makes his lanes stronger etc. The different type of plays and games is what attracts the people to watch it. It was the same in Brood War Personally I feel Dota has more depth to it in the sense you just described but each man to himself. I have not played Dota myself and I have hardly seen any games of it. My old Brood War friends introduced me to LoL and for me it at least resembles a little of the feeling I had while playing Brood War. Of course I still love Brood War more. I can't really say anything about dota, sorry I was just pointing out the differences I see in Brood War, LoL and Starcraft 2. But I would be happy to get to know more about Dota in comparison to those games. Not the person you're talking to but if you ever want to try out Dota 2, send me a PM on Teamliquid. I have about 6 keys that I really don't have use for so if you want to try it out with your friends they are yours!
I thought it was free to play. ._.
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On May 29 2013 12:35 udgnim wrote:
ignoring mechanic requirements
LoL is a more exciting game to watch and play than SC2
a big reason why is the process of snowballing or eventually winning the game
in LoL, one team might need 3 to 4 more positive engagements (random estimate) than the other team to get so far ahead that it is unlikely for the other team to get back into the game. so if one team needs 3 to 4 more positive engagements than the other team then that leaves more room for back and forth gameplay and the possibility to still be in the game.
in SC2, many many games are decided by 1 decisive engagement which either ends the game or gets 1 player so far ahead that the other player never catches up. a lot of this is due to SC2's mechanics. unlimited unit selection produces many engagements that are ball versus ball and SC2's easier macro mechanics allows a player to more easily maintain a lead.
I'd also love to see the Colossus replaced by the Reaver and the Lurker to replace the Lurker to promote more positioning and micro, but Blizzard's SC2 team has shown they want to put their own mark on the Starcraft series even if it makes the game less exciting to watch.
occasionally, SC2 produces some damn amazing games but more often than not, games are decided by 1 engagement which is boring to me.
I feel that's often a fault of LoL - one team is far, far ahead but the game basically says they aren't allowed to win yet because the base's defenses are so ridiculously good. Gotta be a good little kid and wait for the game to give you that Baron and perhaps then they might try to win. In SC2, you can often at least just kill someone if you're ludicrously ahead.
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As always, thanks for your work Khaldor. Keep going, you improved a lot since you started in Korea already.
Well done
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 29 2013 13:11 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 13:01 milkywaywu wrote:On May 29 2013 02:14 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 29 2013 00:26 Targe wrote:On May 28 2013 23:47 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 18:01 Patate wrote:On May 28 2013 17:50 Power[Xp] wrote:On May 28 2013 17:47 Patate wrote:
Just some SC2 apologist stuff, just like when Artosis said SC2 was the best game ever made.
even if LoL is a "free" game, people spend way more than they would on SC2. once you get to Ranked games, you actually need to pay for some Riot Points because you will NEVER have the influence points (experience) to actually afford enough champions to be decent.
The whole PC bang doesn't say why LoL has DESTROYED SC2 in terms of popularity.. just being a free game is not it neither. Nice post, I have to agree with you (except on the IP stuff). I think it's possible to get enough champions to be decent in ranked, but most people will spend money on it anyway. I also feel that while this video has good points, it's also neglecting certain problems in the game Starcraft 2, which is probably the biggest cause as to why it's not a popular game. It's too easy to say certain games are more popular just because they are teamgames and because they are free to play. And for the record, I do play LoL but I do not really watch it because I don't feel like the players are doing inhuman mechanical prowess. They go around with their 50 APM and this kind of rustles me. However, for having taken a look at the All-star games last weekend in Shanghai (200k viewers just on Twitch, by the way), I feel the game has the magic and legendary feel that BW tournaments had. Also, I did not follow BW before playing SC2, so this is not really a nostalgic thing. But for the non-believers, please take a look at a BW OSL final on youtube. It's all in Korean, you don't know the players that much, but you can feel that this is legend in the making, not some other SC2 tournament whose winner will be destroyed by some foreigner next tournament. Yeah it is a shame that LoL doesn't require a lot of apm. I play LoL myself now as well and I was a high apm player in Brood War and Starcraft 2, but I could not really use it to my advantage in LoL. But the good side about it is that I had to learn a lot of new stuff in LoL, which made it a new challenge for me and that's what I like in games And I think the LoL Tournaments are growing in excitement. The games are more exciting than before and some players are really establishing themselves in the scene. The players have their own unique playstyle for a certain role of the game (jungle, ad carry, mid etc) and it makes people look forward to see how an agressive jungler has an influence on the game against a passive jungler who makes his lanes stronger etc. The different type of plays and games is what attracts the people to watch it. It was the same in Brood War Personally I feel Dota has more depth to it in the sense you just described but each man to himself. I have not played Dota myself and I have hardly seen any games of it. My old Brood War friends introduced me to LoL and for me it at least resembles a little of the feeling I had while playing Brood War. Of course I still love Brood War more. I can't really say anything about dota, sorry I was just pointing out the differences I see in Brood War, LoL and Starcraft 2. But I would be happy to get to know more about Dota in comparison to those games. Not the person you're talking to but if you ever want to try out Dota 2, send me a PM on Teamliquid. I have about 6 keys that I really don't have use for so if you want to try it out with your friends they are yours! I thought it was free to play. ._.
It's in technically a closed beta but they give away so many keys to players who have the game that it's open for all who want in.
I think I have like 20 keys in my steam inventory.
+ Show Spoiler +Although if you were being sarcastic I definitely fell for that.
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LoL is exciting to play, but not anywhere exciting to watch. Would rather watch paint dry than to spend an hour per game watching mostly creeps farming and fail ganking
A bo3 sc2 series also only take 30 minute total on average, while any single lol match is 40 minute minimum + champion selections. There is also huge luck factor in LoL when it comes to ganks and comp overall
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i fail 2 see how ganks and Hero ban/pick is luck.
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On May 29 2013 19:43 rasers wrote:
i fail 2 see how ganks and Hero ban/pick is luck.
map is not symmetrical, it is often easier trying to gank top then it is to gank bot. The jungler on team starting at top half of the map have quicker access to red buff and allows for easier top ganks.
also often times sucessful ganks are simply luck based. As any lane player, you can only judge by timing and intuition the position of their jungler, especially early game. you can't hold out on your skills forever, but one misread timing, spell or position and you're done with that lane.
As for team comps, some team comps are simply better than others. You can only ban 3 champions, and you don't know exactly what they will pick. There is a chance you end up with a inferior comp overall than your opponents, especially if your team is first pick: opponent pick jungle + generic adc after your fp, now your top, mid, or bot lane can all be countered picked by next champion selection (2/3 in most cases)
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EPT
