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Does age matter in SC2 - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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capu
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Finland224 Posts
May 17 2013 07:51 GMT
#81
older people can use their life experiences to their advantage and really put that pain and hard work they've already endured into beautiful strategies.
r00ty
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1055 Posts
May 17 2013 07:52 GMT
#82
Afaik reaction time and the ability to automatize already declines in the mid-early twenties on average.

I'm in my early 30's. One of the reasons I quit competetive FPS 5 years ago was the new kids catching up and leaving me behind so fast it got really frustrating. I didn't want to put in the effort any more. Same with SC2. My biggest problem is multitasking.
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
May 17 2013 07:56 GMT
#83
I was still playing with 90 apm when i hit masters, now i play with 150, and it has taken a lot of hard work to make this happen. I'm still pushing, i'd say i go up by an average of a few apm every couple of weeks.

So in other words. It takes time to get faster for some people, and NO, it is not what is holding you back. Just keep practicing, you will get there.
The world is ending what should we do about it?
Morlock
Profile Joined May 2013
68 Posts
May 17 2013 08:12 GMT
#84
I think the most important factor with respect to why older people over 25 tend to be worse is that they don't care as much as the youngsters. We have bigger fish to fry and can't really justify pouring all our energy into a dumb game.
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
May 17 2013 08:21 GMT
#85
Age matter certainly in these kinds of games. From what I remember the brain starts to deteriorate in the early twenties, so when you hit your thirties you are well past your prime.

However, in some games age won't matter as much. Civilization for example that is pure strategy and turn-based which mean one can take as much time as needed to carry out commands.
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
gingerfluffmuff
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria4570 Posts
May 17 2013 08:36 GMT
#86
From personal experience i can say that learning (physics, oral + written exams so you have to know what you are talking about) was easier with 22 than with 27 by far. Idk what changed but when being younger i could learn like 13h per day no problem.
・゚✧:・゚+..。✧・゚:・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚ ゜・:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING *・゜・:・゚✧:・゚✧。゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:・゜・:・゚✧::・・:・゚・゚
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
May 17 2013 08:39 GMT
#87
No one over 23 has won a starleague yet iirc, and now that the scene is very much more competitive in sc2 with the kespa players I don't think it will ever happen in the GSL either. So yes, age matters.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
May 17 2013 08:50 GMT
#88
On May 17 2013 17:39 Elroi wrote:
No one over 23 has won a starleague yet iirc, and now that the scene is very much more competitive in sc2 with the kespa players I don't think it will ever happen in the GSL either. So yes, age matters.


That does not necessarily have anything to do with "old" people being slower. It could also very well be because people tend to retire when they hit a certain age and/or have to attend mandatory military.

I also think that APM is highly overrated. There may be scenarios where a high APM in a short time span can make a difference (Marine splitting), but overall i don't think that APM makes much of a difference if you can keep a steady 100 apm. I know that my APM has not changed much since i was high gold, and i am currently high diamond.
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
May 17 2013 09:16 GMT
#89
On May 17 2013 17:50 Prog455 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2013 17:39 Elroi wrote:
No one over 23 has won a starleague yet iirc, and now that the scene is very much more competitive in sc2 with the kespa players I don't think it will ever happen in the GSL either. So yes, age matters.


That does not necessarily have anything to do with "old" people being slower. It could also very well be because people tend to retire when they hit a certain age and/or have to attend mandatory military.

I also think that APM is highly overrated. There may be scenarios where a high APM in a short time span can make a difference (Marine splitting), but overall i don't think that APM makes much of a difference if you can keep a steady 100 apm. I know that my APM has not changed much since i was high gold, and i am currently high diamond.


APM makes a large difference past mid master. I wish it were not so, as i am a slow player, but it is.

Even Grubby, the most politically correct, and a (relatively) slower player himself described elfi as someone who "wins too much for someone who plays so slow" when talking to Cloud at one of the HSCs.
The world is ending what should we do about it?
Glioburd
Profile Joined April 2008
France1911 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 09:29:23
May 17 2013 09:18 GMT
#90
Am i achieving all i can mechanically due to age vs speed? Hope that doesnt sound stupid, but it feels like a legitimate question. It seems widely accepted in a pro capacity that once you get to an 'age' you just can't compete.

I think the age does matters in games which require a lot of reflexes, such like Quakelive. When you're like 30 you'll be less good at quakelive than when you was 20 (story of a friend who stopped QL because of that).

In a RTS game, I don't think at all you'll be handicapped by your age. The APM comes with the experience, and decrease when you play less. Not because of the age. The age will count if you are 60 of course, but you are totally able to have perfect mechanics at 31... Especially at SC2. It requires far less mechanics than BW. In a professional level, SC2 is only about good strats and gamesens. NO professional at SC2 are handicapped by their lack of mechanics (expected Adelscott).

Anyone similar age experienced this before and did you overcome it?

So no, never felt I was less good because I'm getting older at SC.

Simply accept you'll be Forever Diamond?

No. What you play does not require uber reflexes. Some young players had to stay during many season in gold / plat before reaching master.
Just play regularly, and learn more build which are adapted to the map and the position (you told yourself that you only have a build per match up). SC2 is really more about brain and gamble than you think. Focus at your macro and the good choice of units, and try to learn from your defeat.

I don't know how many games you have played since the begining. I think some people are more talentuous than other at RTS, (like at everything), so maybe (I don't know just saying) you have less ease than other player. (For exemple, I've never had a good game sens. I've good mechanics but I play like a robot and never take the best decision, it's the contrary for some players). But your age has nothing to do with it.
"You should hate loosing, but you should never fear defeat." NaDa.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
May 17 2013 09:24 GMT
#91
There's a lot of misinformation being posted in this thread.

When you get older, your brain does not "deteriorate". You do not get slower. What happens instead is your brain shapes its pathways to accomodate the way you're used to thinking, and prunes the unnecessary stuff. That's why it's much easier to get into gaming when you're young, because your neural pathways are not fully formed. You learn new skills better when you're young, that's just common sense.

If you are already older and just getting into gaming, then yes, you will have a harder time (though it's not the reason you can't break into GM). However, if you've been gaming your whole life, evidence would suggest you actually get faster as you age. There is no magical skill cap for older players.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Serek
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom459 Posts
May 17 2013 09:40 GMT
#92
On May 17 2013 17:12 Morlock wrote:
I think the most important factor with respect to why older people over 25 tend to be worse is that they don't care as much as the youngsters. We have bigger fish to fry and can't really justify pouring all our energy into a dumb game.


A million times this. At some point other priorities in life crop up and that's that.

If it really matters to you keep on practising and you'll eventually get there. Have someone knowledgeable watch you play or your replays, stuff like that. But don't worry too much as long as you're still having fun playing the game.
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
May 17 2013 09:58 GMT
#93
Does age matter? Maru and WhiteRA say no. There used to be a guy on my forums who would kick all our asses, I think hes high masters, hes also 68 years old.
KCCO!
Maeldun
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia169 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 10:01:17
May 17 2013 09:59 GMT
#94
Edit: The posts above mine clearly answer my question. L2readthewholethread.
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
May 17 2013 10:05 GMT
#95
Of course age matters, It always does. People change as the grow but age is only one tiny factor out of so very many.

I'll refer you to my sig:

"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields


There is much we cannot know about this subject, but one thing I can tell you for sure. You are not stuck in Diamond solely because of age. There are simply too many factors involved in determining how good you are at SC2 for one of these to be the only limitation for you.
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Hemling
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden93 Posts
May 17 2013 10:09 GMT
#96
I think your mindset hold your back more then your actual age.

There are a tons of factors that weigh in and I've had similar experiences where the enemy player is more "present" in the game, when i lose a bit focus after getting tired or playing too many tvz, suddenly I start missing things like drops and runbys on the minimap, its a downward spiral that force me to spend more time fixing things in macro then usual while trying to keep up with mapcontrol and bam I've just a-moved 2seconds unsieged into his army, I usually stop playing for the day when that happens because I feel bad playing when Im not 100% focused, I've seen this happen the other way around though its just how sc2 is sometimes =)

Im 28 and currently rank 15 master btw.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/246845/1/Hemligt/
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
May 17 2013 10:13 GMT
#97
I'm a bit split on this. It's clearly harder to improve when you get older so you have to put in more time. On the other hand it's not really hard to keep your level if you have played before or as the OP (and me) since WC2. I see this alot in sports, old "youthstars" that quit when they were 19-23 and come back when their kids start, they'll get back to roughly their previous level pretty soon from having trained hard in the past. Also some ex XC skiiers and swimmers have made some impressive results with wery little training but they just had to "top up" the existing pool that they had.
We also se quite few tweens and early teens making strong results so it's not only few old people in the top. I'd say that the best age seems to be 18-22 or around there.
I doubt that a 30+ can get GM if he just picked up the game today and never tuched an RTS ever. When it comes to 30 people who have played quite a few RTS games before it's just about plowing down the time. We're not going to have the improvementcurve of kolll but 14h/day for a year should do it even it you lack a bit in talent.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
FuzZyLogic
Profile Joined December 2010
United States141 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 10:32:46
May 17 2013 10:27 GMT
#98
You may be at a disadvantage but lack of speed certainly isn't holding you back from masters. I don't think having 300+ apm is that important unless you are a korean gm. If you think you understand the game just fine then you are fooling yourself, mechanics in sc2 are relatively easy, especially for zerg or protoss. If you actually know what to do then you will be high master easily.

I think the issue is mainly less time available. A highschool/college student has tons of free time to think about/play the game and not nearly as many external responsibilities as a working adult with a family. I don't think your reflexes/coordination degrade that much by 31, a lot of players are just slow due to lack of practice, has nothing to do with age.
Big-t
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria1350 Posts
May 17 2013 10:28 GMT
#99
With higher age the experience and situation awareness will increase, but the reaction time and APM will sink a bit. At least that´s my opinion.
monchi | IdrA | Flash
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 17 2013 10:42 GMT
#100
On May 17 2013 18:24 Cel.erity wrote:
There's a lot of misinformation being posted in this thread.

When you get older, your brain does not "deteriorate". You do not get slower.

The evidence says otherwise, actually.

Still, it's a slow decline starting in the late 20s, so it shouldn't affect most pro-gamers.
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