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Does age matter in SC2 - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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iyasq8
Profile Joined December 2012
113 Posts
May 17 2013 05:02 GMT
#61
As long long as u r not a progamer and dont have a 400apm, age doesn't matter. many player get stuck on a certain level.
Piece
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
May 17 2013 05:20 GMT
#62
On May 17 2013 09:37 Zenbrez wrote:
Engagements are the most important part in a game. Have an optimal keybind configuration? Use camera location hotkeys? Use 3 control groups for your army? Never miss an inject? Great map awareness? Awesome! You can do all of these better than your opponent, but if he has a better understanding and execution of engagements, he could potentially beat you every time. (knowledge > physical aspects)


Engagements are almost entirely mechanical, lol. All the components of the actual engagement are mechanical - I suppose the only knowledge elements would be composition and deciding whether to engage/how to engage.

The other 90% of an engagement is purely physical.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
AeroGear
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada652 Posts
May 17 2013 05:21 GMT
#63
Does there need to be a problem here? You being "stalled" at the same rank means the "average" ladder caught up and is improving at the same speed as you are.

I'd be pretty content with being consistent and remaining top 8 diamond if I played only 10 games a week. As long as you're enjoying the game the ladder rank is rather meaningless, you just want to be high enough to avoid facing non-stop all-ins and cheese builds.

As for age? RSS (repetitive stress syndrome) aside, I think someone can keep on playing at a high level for quite some time but you have to help yourself out. I've seen examples of athletes thrown around... These athletes may thank their genetics for it, but its mostly due to a very strict regimen and discipline. A lesson that can translate to almost anything in life.
Driven by hate, fueled by rage
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
May 17 2013 05:33 GMT
#64
I think there is a bigger argument for age affecting motivation than anything else.
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
Uni1987
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands642 Posts
May 17 2013 06:13 GMT
#65
I am one of the people who think starcraft 2 is better then broodwar, why? Because I feel with starcraft 2 age is way less of a factor. If you have a good hotkey/camera setup you do not need such a high APM. It also depends a little on your playstyle I suppose.
.............
ChosenBrad1322
Profile Joined April 2012
United States562 Posts
May 17 2013 06:17 GMT
#66
Maybe if you were like 60... it can't be to the point where at 31 you have suddenly lost so much speed of mind / hand that it is noticeable. If you did lose some speed it wouldn't be more than 1-5% of when you were 21. 31 isn't old, I would say just keep trying to get better, practice more, study more etc and u'll see results.
Jernstolpe
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden12 Posts
May 17 2013 06:19 GMT
#67
Whitera
Hell, it's about damn time.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
May 17 2013 06:21 GMT
#68
At my age (27), the biggest obstacle is time and dedication. I have far too many other, more important things to do than play. If I got to play more than an hour a day (up to 4 hours or more for a regular teenager or college student) I'd have more than 60apm and masters.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Hangman89
Profile Joined May 2013
Singapore43 Posts
May 17 2013 06:35 GMT
#69
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=341259

You may be interested in the above link.

My personal opinion is that age does decrease your handspeed but not to the extent where you are at a significant disadvantage to your opponent. (not unless you are competing with the best of the best).

Bearing in mind that players like whitera, nestea and dimaga are pretty "old" and still regulars in masters and GM, i think you should not have a problem getting to masters.

+ Show Spoiler +
Also, i think age/experience is useful in some cases like dealing with ladder anxiety, BM and base race scenarios.


Glhf on ladder!
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
May 17 2013 06:43 GMT
#70
On May 17 2013 09:09 Toons wrote:
I have 1 build per matchup, practice those exclusively


i think this is what is the real issue for you. the difference between a real good player and an average masters player is how they scout and react to adjust their build to exploit the opponent. terran players are real good at this for example the 6:30 scan timing.

hand speed is not crippling to an older gamer until they are competing at a GM level where idle seconds on a medivac can mean the difference in a game.
The Show of a Lifetime
kaluro
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands760 Posts
May 17 2013 06:51 GMT
#71
Okay there is no supporting evidence that someone would be performing slower at the age of 31.
There is, however, proof that if you keep practicing on a daily basis, older people can maintain their speed, senses and memory throughout aging, all the way up to 55+.

Once you hit 55 you will slowly start to notice the aging process, but at 31?! No way josé.

What I think:

- 25 games a week is slow
- Your game knowledge is severely lacking
- You compensate your lack of game knowledge with mechanics
- Your mechanics are rusty because of the small game pool / week -> BAM back to diamond because you can't compensate enough.

Because if you would have had proper (enough) knowledge, you would;'ve hit masters with minimal required APM.
www.twitch.tv/kaluroo - 720p60fps - Remember the name! - Don't do your best, do whatever it takes.
Morlock
Profile Joined May 2013
68 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 07:10:06
May 17 2013 07:06 GMT
#72
Like anything, speed is almost certainly going to be a normal distribution (or a bell curve).

Some people over 30 will be faster than most 18 year olds. 18-year-olds might be faster on average, but it's not a comment on all people in these age groups. It's only a statistical average.

Then there's the fact that practice counts for a great deal. Top players say that the best way to get high APM is just practice, practice, practice. No doubt though you have to be conscious of speed, and make sure you have a good mouse and mouse mat. I was using the back of an envelope for a mouse mat with a cheap mouse that I had since 2004. My APM was capped at like 50, and I was worried age might be making me slow (I'm late 20s). But now, after I got a proper gaming mouse + mouse mat, I'm 200 APM when playing well.
BjoernK
Profile Joined April 2012
194 Posts
May 17 2013 07:15 GMT
#73
While the mantra here seems to be that age does not matter I would like to disagree. There is an optimal age for every sport. For sprinting (100m dash) it is around 26 for endurance sports it is above 30. For light weight classes in fighting sports it is also around 26. For higher weight classes it is above. Klitschko with 37 is understood to be slightly past his prime now. Pacquiao at 33 is supposed to be 3-4 or so years past his prime. Of course there are exceptions.

I remember hearing/reading some of the above points but don't claim they are scientific. Still it should not be too hard to accept.

My gut feeling is, that the optimal sc2 age is around 16-24. That's the period of time when the brain is at peak performance. So I think a 16-24 year old will improve a lot faster than a 30+ year old. That said reaching masters should be achievable for most people who really like to play. However not necessarily at the rate of 25 games per week or 4 games per day which the opening poster claims to have.
SiroKO
Profile Joined February 2012
France721 Posts
May 17 2013 07:23 GMT
#74
From a purely physical point of view, Starcraft2 requires an insane psychological dedication toward a video game, as well as finger/arms speed and reaction time.
These 3 "qualities" tend to deteriorate past 16 years old. Usually other physical qualities start emerging at that time, such as stronger muscles and more technique, but these qualities are useless in the world of Starcraft where all you need is speed and experience.

In other words, small and tiny asian teenagers (20-) with a culture of hard work are definitely at an advantage.
Our envy always last longer than the happiness of those we envy
Morlock
Profile Joined May 2013
68 Posts
May 17 2013 07:26 GMT
#75
On May 17 2013 15:51 kaluro wrote:
Because if you would have had proper (enough) knowledge, you would;'ve hit masters with minimal required APM.
No need to be black-and-white about it. It's condescending and not even accurate anyway. In fact, it's dumb.

The dichotomy between APM and "game knowledge" is just about as stupid as saying the only two qualities required for being a good football player are speed and understanding of how to kick a ball.

Your APM has to be distributed well and you have to know how to apply your game knowledge in timed situations and under pressure. It's one thing to understand something, but it's another for it to be second nature.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
May 17 2013 07:33 GMT
#76
You not hitting Masters is not because you are too old for it.
However, I believe that there is an optimal age for every sport. While youngsters excel in having really good periods.
I had a good night of sleep.
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
May 17 2013 07:37 GMT
#77
On May 17 2013 09:09 Toons wrote:
Not sure if this belongs here, but here goes.

History/Information
Rank 1 Diamond NA (not much, but have played to high plat on KR)
Made Masters twice on EU, but got demoted back to diamond after being beat too much.
Played RTS from Warcraft 2 onward (i'm 31 this year)
Follow SC2 fairly regularly (streams, replays, etc)
Play somewhere over 25 games a week (sometimes more, some less, 57% ratio)

Problem
I feel like i'm bumping into a skill ceiling every 5-10 games (the way MMR works, thats probably about right)

  • What i mean here is that, every 5-10 games, I run into mid masters players (or sometimes equal level diamonds, e.g., rank 1), that stomp me into the ground, by the sheer fact that they are faster.
  • I feel we both understand the game just fine, I know what i need to do, but they just do it quicker (I have 1 build per matchup, practice those exclusively)
  • This results in a few losses, bumping me back down to playing Diamonds below me and the cycle repeats (and also means a lack of promotion)
  • Note: When i return home, i'll post my MMR-Stats of the last 100ish games, to illustrate what i mean.


My Questions
  1. Am i achieving all i can mechanically due to age vs speed? Hope that doesnt sound stupid, but it feels like a legitimate question. It seems widely accepted in a pro capacity that once you get to an 'age' you just can't compete.
  2. Anyone similar age experienced this before and did you overcome it?
  3. Simply accept you'll be Forever Diamond?


I really dont intend this to be a whine post, i literally dont know how much more I can do in game ...
Do I just bounce around this level, and just have to get ok with that?

Thanks for reading.



Im 100% sure that you dont understand the game perfectly, Im sure there are tons of things you can work on you just need the right mindset, Goody is a progamer with insanely low apm. another one is sOs (gsl ro8 protoss).
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3598 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 07:41:07
May 17 2013 07:38 GMT
#78
of course your reflexes become slower when you're aging, but the pure mechanics shouldn't be that much of a problem when you're getting older. you won't be able to play perfectly, but it's easily possible to have solid mechanics at higher ages. just keep in mind that it takes more practice to maintain a certain skill level. of course you won't reach the highest level anymore, but low master should be doable with some deliberate practice and enough knowledge.

it all comes down on how much effort you put into improving and how important it is for you. the older you are, the more things outside of gaming matter (job, family, household, etc.), so it's basically a question of time and dedication.
first we make expand, then we defense it.
nkr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden5451 Posts
May 17 2013 07:41 GMT
#79
Do you feel like 25 games a week is enough to progress faster than the people around you? When you have kids with no commitments around you playing 100+ games a week, there's no wonder you don't climb the ladder like you want to
ESPORTS ILLUMINATI
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
May 17 2013 07:48 GMT
#80
I'm 31 and have been in master league since season 1.
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