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Not sure if this belongs here, but here goes.
History/Information Rank 1 Diamond NA (not much, but have played to high plat on KR) Made Masters twice on EU, but got demoted back to diamond after being beat too much. Played RTS from Warcraft 2 onward (i'm 31 this year) Follow SC2 fairly regularly (streams, replays, etc) Play somewhere over 25 games a week (sometimes more, some less, 57% ratio)
Problem I feel like i'm bumping into a skill ceiling every 5-10 games (the way MMR works, thats probably about right)
- What i mean here is that, every 5-10 games, I run into mid masters players (or sometimes equal level diamonds, e.g., rank 1), that stomp me into the ground, by the sheer fact that they are faster.
- I feel we both understand the game just fine, I know what i need to do, but they just do it quicker (I have 1 build per matchup, practice those exclusively)
- This results in a few losses, bumping me back down to playing Diamonds below me and the cycle repeats (and also means a lack of promotion)
- Note: When i return home, i'll post my MMR-Stats of the last 100ish games, to illustrate what i mean.
My Questions
- Am i achieving all i can mechanically due to age vs speed? Hope that doesnt sound stupid, but it feels like a legitimate question. It seems widely accepted in a pro capacity that once you get to an 'age' you just can't compete.
- Anyone similar age experienced this before and did you overcome it?
- Simply accept you'll be Forever Diamond?
I really dont intend this to be a whine post, i literally dont know how much more I can do in game ... Do I just bounce around this level, and just have to get ok with that?
Thanks for reading.
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I suppose your speed deteriorates over time when you age, but it should definitely be possible to be higher than diamond with relatively low APM.
Perhaps you need to work on playing with other builds or trying new things, try scouting early and seeing what they are doing and choose an appropriate build to counter him accordingly.
Don't lose hope or think you will be forever diamond, I don't believe that your skill is capped due to your age.
EDIT: Just to add; instead of practicing one build, you should just try to play safe and scout and do your build on the fly to counter what your opponent is doing - thats how i play, and i've been a solid master player for quite some time, with very little practice.
The fact that you made this thread shows that you are concerned about your age and it could cause a mental block hindering your learning, cos every loss you might blame on your "age"...
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If you think you lose because you lack speed, you're totally wrong. No way in hell you can't hit masters if you have the knowledge and know how to react in most of the situations. You very likely don't have the knowledge yet so you have to study more.
And no, there's no skill cap, age skill cap or whatever people may ever call it. The moment you start thinking you can't improve anymore, you're admiting to yourself that you won't improve anymore because you don't want to.
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Even if age does diminish mechanical ability, why concern yourself with it? It's more constructive to operate with the mindset of 'what can I do to improve?'. If you feel you're hitting a skill ceiling then post replays in the strategy forum for feedback. Watch your own replays and watch vods featuring pro players: try to see what they're doing that you're not.
Mechanics are important but they're not the be all and end all for getting into masters. SC2 is a strategy game - it's not just about who can tap buttons the fastest.
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I'm 27 and have been rank 1 masters for extended periods in the past, can't break into GM. I probably play slightly more than you do on average. I don't think it has anything to do with age, especially in NA. You can do a lot with better multitask and better strategic thinking, it doesn't come down purely to speed, especially at the diamond level where you are definitely making a ton of mistakes.
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IMO speed/apm is overrated in sc2. Protoss also requires the least raw speed to accomplish its basic tasks (that's not to say that there aren't some speedy protoss pros). It's more about prioritizing your APM and remembering what you need to do than cranking up your speed altogether.
Unless you have crippling arthritis or something, I don't think that it's appropriate to blame your age for this. I know plenty of guitarists/pianists who can move their fingers faster than master league SC2 players and are well beyond your age. What's more likely is that you just aren't putting in enough time, or aren't using your time as efficiently as you could. Be more mindful or your decisions in game and try to analyze replays for yourself rather than blindly copying pros and you will find that you are winning more and having a better time playing.
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Speed is a huge part of the game at the top level. Being able to play slightly faster is the difference between hitting an inject during an attack or not. A single inject gives you a handful of larva.. multiply times number of bases and you can see it's a lot of units... That said ESPORTS is pretty young and ther aren't that many gamers who are your age. I'm 26 and I feel like a dinosaur. In other sports your body becomes weaker. But in this i don't think age should start to kick in as fast. If Bret Favre can play football as long as he did, you should be fine So what im trying to say is that you're not losing because of your speed in Diamond league.
I have a friend who is around your age, plays without hotkeys, plays RANDOM, and is Masters. He is just a smart player who plays pretty safe and has a good understanding of the game. Sure sometimes he loses to super high APM builds, but he still wins a good chunk of the time.. enough to be Masters. He watches a lot of his replays when he can't play because he's holding his baby and learns from his mistakes.
What's your style? Do you deathball? Do you like to play harassy aggressive builds? There are ways to play that require more strategic planning and less APM. If you find yourself unable to play faster, try to play smarter. Better build orders and less micro focused stuff.
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Didn't Nestea just turn 30 when he was tearing up the GSL?
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Nestea won his GSL after 30 so you know the answer
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Look at Nestea... I guess he's turning/already turned 31 this year, or so. It's just hard to keep up your motivation at this age; at least that's the case for me (28 years old). ^^ But as a diamond random player, I definitely feel like I could play at a higher level if I put in more time/practiced builds more specifically... Definitely not a speed issue.
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It's not only time you put on practice, but in knowledge too. I don't know about you, but i am not capable of thinking as much as i did about games, min/maxing than a i did when i was younger, not because i am dumber/slower, but because i have many other things to take care of.
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ofc it does, older means more things to care about in life and not just gaming. There are more interests and worries as well so you can't sit there and play for long.
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I agree with the statement and im 35 : Yes, age affects APM and therefore effects your MMR and leagueplacement aswell.
Its not because your old, its because the young peeps grow up in rts games, they grow in the game as they grow to adulthood. As we oldies, have to learn and/or relearn stuff. it just harder and takes more time.
i.e. my nephew was 8 years old and aced Mario bros 3 thx to his mechanics, i didnt
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Speed only matters up until about 70 apm. Once you get there your decision making and execution are far more important.
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It's also true that when you're older you have less time to dedicate to the game. I have a friend who's 17 and gets home at 2:30 from school. Meanwhile I'm in the office until 9PM and when I get home I have shit to do, and need to get to bed early so I can get to work the next morning.
So obviously I don't get to play as much.
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look at klitchko, 37 years old and they beat the shit out of everyone, you cant say they are slow or have bad reactiontime
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I'd venture age matters less in SC2 compared to BW.
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Axslav is a great example of how someone with super low APM and slow hands can out think, out position and out strategize 99.99% of all SC2 players. It may not be what you want to hear, but the same mentality that motivated you to make this thread is the same mentality that is holding you back on ladder. Focus on your mistakes and ask the community for help. They are an amazing resource. Good Luck!
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Engagements are the most important part in a game. Have an optimal keybind configuration? Use camera location hotkeys? Use 3 control groups for your army? Never miss an inject? Great map awareness? Awesome! You can do all of these better than your opponent, but if he has a better understanding and execution of engagements, he could potentially beat you every time. (knowledge > physical aspects)
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Yes, I feel like older people enjoy strategy games more then kids
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