Does age matter in SC2 - Page 7

MassTank

Italy21 Posts

May 17 2013 15:03 GMT

#121

Speed doesn't matter, for example players like GoOdy or Axslav have 80-100 APM and they're enough to be competitive, as long as you have enough APM to do all the actions you want to do then its fine. Maybe you're just failing in other aspects of the game like thinking fast enough/ responding that can be also related to the age.

mongmong

Korea (South)1389 Posts

May 17 2013 15:04 GMT

#122

On May 17 2013 19:57 Veriol wrote:
I think only reason why "older" progamers dont to so well is because they have too much stuff going on in their lives. Some have wife, start to live on their own and they just dont think starcraft all day every day like the younger ones can (and do).

I agree with this, and this is what older progamers say when they are interviewd. As you get older, you cant think about starcraft 24/7

E.H Eager

United States227 Posts

May 17 2013 15:14 GMT

#123

I'm sure that you get slower as you get older, although I honestly have no idea the "rate" at which it would happen, but there are also individual skill caps.

I'm never going to be able to get to grandmaster, so that is my bar no matter what. So I'm guessing that as I get older I will slowly start dropping from where I am (as I play less and less, and as I start to get slower).

So if I started playing a new rts when I'm 30, my individual skill cap would already be set, and I probably wouldn't be as good as I am now (I'm 20).

Edit: I also agree with the idea that older gamers may have other things going on in their lives. All I've got right now is school, a part time job, and friends. That leaves a lot of time for gaming.

HeeroFX

United States2704 Posts

May 17 2013 15:18 GMT

#124

I think age kinda affects you. I think kids are able to accept new ideas of how to play a lot quicker than older people.. I think pysically they are faster than adults. But I do think adults can compete with them just fine.

maartendq

Belgium3115 Posts

May 17 2013 15:21 GMT

#125

On May 17 2013 17:12 Morlock wrote:
I think the most important factor with respect to why older people over 25 tend to be worse is that they don't care as much as the youngsters. We have bigger fish to fry and can't really justify pouring all our energy into a dumb game.

I agree. When I was younger (around 15-16) I used to play a lot of video games. Sessions of four or five hours at an end were very common. I'm 25 now, and I barely play two or three hours a week. Other priorities and interests. I play video games nowadays if I really can't find anything more useful to do. I still actively follow the SC2 esports scene though.

tuukster

Finland114 Posts

May 17 2013 15:25 GMT

#126

I don't think your speed/APM decreases from a PHYSICAL standpoint until you are like 60 years old. To think that you will hit your "max level" in terms of speed at 30 years old is only your mindset holding you back. I strongly believe that high speed/APM is only the result of rigorous practice and knowing what to do at every moment. Even a 60 year old person can get 300 APM if he just spams 3 keys non-stop, but there is no meaning in that. In my opinion, low APM is just the consequence of not knowing what to do. Pro gamers are pros because they are aware of all the little things they need to do, all the time.

Vlare

748 Posts

May 17 2013 15:30 GMT

#127

I'm 24, with pretty low apm. (80-120 usually). And I'm playing in high masters/GM so I think that without a doubt you can get further. While there are obviously ceilings that make it much harder to advance beyond a certain point. I feel like it's way up there because of how easy SC2 is. There are a lot of high rated players with low apm.

Nerski

United States1095 Posts

May 17 2013 15:56 GMT

#128

My suggestions to you from another guy who's 30 and has far less time to play then some random 14 to 18 year old kid.

Don't play the game straight up and standard and put yourself in situations where your age can be more of a negative then a positive. So what do I mean by this?

Micro Wise: There is the possibility you can't micro as well as someone younger, so don't need to. Pick engagements that put you in a superior position where even if you can't micro as well as a younger version of yourself you don't need to.

Macro Wise: This is one area you just have to make sure your on top of, if your opponents all out macro you there just isn't anything you can do. So if there is one area of mechanics you should focus on keeping tip top this is it. I'd worry less about practicing any other mechanic over having good macro if time is a limiting factor.

Strategy Wise: Rather then focus on copying builds everyone has seen, try to find your own way to do things. The one advantage you should have in theory is in making good decisions and doing good analysis. Older gamers in the pro scene like a Nestea prove this point, it's not his pure mechanics that always made him a threat. It was his ability to push the meta game and make superior decisions over his opponents. Considering HoTS isn't 100% figured out there is more room for that then ever in the meta game right now.

What you watch: If you are going to take any ques from other pros in the scene...try to find ones who play in a manner you can play.

Example: I play Zerg...so if I was going to watch a stream and the two people that were streaming were say Life, and say someone like Catz...if I wanted to learn something I could use I'd watch Catz. Why? because it's unlikely i'll be able to play like a Life can play. I'm not as young, I probably can't be as quick or have his precision; so what he does probably won't work for me. A guy like Catz plays fairly non-standard and is going to play more on the level I can play, so what he does could possibly work for myself as well.

Hope this helps you to improve.

Ph4ZeD

United Kingdom753 Posts

May 17 2013 16:04 GMT

#129

Age is hugely over rated as a factor. I find that people use age as an excuse to justify poor performance and why its not worth trying to do things, when history is littered with examples of people who have confounded societies expectations of what they "should" be doing at their age. In general, anyone can achieve anything. You are the one holding yourself back.

Unidus

United States24 Posts

May 17 2013 16:23 GMT

#130

It's all skill + time. 25 games per week is most likely just keeping you refreshed and not demoted. Look at it like weight lifting. If you only do 25 reps of 150 pounds every week you most likely wont increase in strength. You will only maintain the strength that you have.

If it's possible increase you games per week and do a little analysis of your losses and see what happens.

Myself as an example. I am 30 and can still wipe the floor with all the younger players in FPS games just like I did when I was 18. Skill>age. You only get worse with age if you let yourself get out of shape and stop playing.

StreetWise

United States594 Posts

May 17 2013 17:11 GMT

#131

I think age slows you down, but not for the reasons one might think. I think it slows you down because of all the things you have going on inside your head. For example, I am 30, married with two kids with work and life etc. On a good day I will only work 8 hours and a longer days can be 12, and extreme end has been up to 20 depending on deadlines etc. Just using a good day as an example, I am up at 6 to get ready for work, get my kids breakfast, my oldest off to school, and my youngest to day care. I work all day, pick up the kids get supper ready (wife works too and I am the better cook, don't let her see me say this) and then do dishes and take the kids outside either to ride bike on the trails or play at the park. Then about 8:30-9:30 after the kids are in bed I can sit down and play some games. At this point I sit down to play for an hour or two or three(making myself even more tired). But you must consider, I am tired mentally from a full day and then things pop into my mind from the long list of things I must keep track of. For instance I might simply be doing a FFE vs a zerg and then remember that I need to pay a bill, pick something up, or have an event for one of my kids to go to the next day. So all these thoughts that I have in my head while playing ultimately slows me down. I believe that I play best when I have a clear head, and am well rested. This does not happen often. I play about twice as much as you, about 50 games a week because I play a little more on weekends and have been Masters since season 1, but I do feel that I could do better. When I was younger I played WC3 and was always top 20 on the ladder for example.

ROOTFayth

Canada3351 Posts

May 17 2013 17:23 GMT

#132

I'm pretty sure you can be GM with all 3 races on NA with ~100 apm

SoniC_eu

Denmark1008 Posts

May 17 2013 17:26 GMT

#133

I dont know about you, but I feel if I dedicated more time and effort into starcraft, and not had a full time job that took a lot of energy, I could easily squeeze my way into top masters (I am mid diamond currently). Surely if your APM hits higher than say 150, you should be just fine

Gosi

Sweden9072 Posts

May 17 2013 17:30 GMT

#134

Age never seemed to stop NaDa from being such a mechanical beast.

Deleted User 123474

292 Posts

May 17 2013 17:42 GMT

#135

Interesting topic. Nerski has got it down, just do what he says. In fact, his advice works for almost everyone -- know what you're good at, be it executing a strategy perfectly or out-brawning the opponent in a macro-fest. For instance, I'm a high masters Terran player, and I've been one since pretty much the release of WoL. I tend to do plays that are a little cheesy in the early game, or have some harass potential, so that I can have a chance of winning and getting myself into what I consider the most fascinating parts of SC2. If it fails or doesn't kill the other guy, I proceed somewhat greedily to the max-max battles, essentially. If I see a weakness, I pounce on it.

However, I don't really rely on scouting and adapting to the other guy's composition or game plan, other than to deny expansions and from the scouting I get by harassing. I just kind of do my own thing, macroing and microing happily away.

You get slower as you age, and have a weakened ability to learn, but you can overcome this by playing the style you know a lot about and like, so that learning and speed is easier and more natural. If you prefer a reactive and calculated style, in opposition to the way I like to play, you'll probably be best off asking questions of your opponents and studying possible strategies of yourself and the opponent at points of the game.

I don't play much 1v1 anymore, maybe five games a week, but I play probably fifty team games a week, for reference. I personally think that after about 200 games played in WoL or 200 in HoTS (played and vaguely criticized by yourself), you can get along at high masters with about fifteen games a week. To get into and stay in Masters, ten games a week (again with simple criticisms of yourself by yourself) and thirty minutes of stream watching to stay up on the metagame.

Caliber

United States598 Posts

May 17 2013 17:53 GMT

#136

I hit GM on PicNic as Random with only 60-70 apm, so I dont think so.

Gorilla23

United States339 Posts

May 17 2013 17:59 GMT

#137

I think age does matter in SC2, but I don't think it matters much. As someone gets older, I assume they do get slower. However, who knows how much slower they will get or how fast the deterioration occurs/at what age. NesTea was stomping kids 10 years younger than him a couple years ago. He was never, even in BW, known for having good mechanics, so who knows how much he has slowed down during his career... If he has slowed down.

aTnClouD

Italy2428 Posts

May 17 2013 18:02 GMT

#138

The older you get the less motivated you are spending your whole life playing a videogame. The reaction time required to play Starcraft is not so extreme that a 40yo couldn't make it big.

Novalisk

Israel1818 Posts

May 17 2013 18:02 GMT

#139

Age is less about hand speed and more about outside-world pressure (i.e "why u not get real job?"), injuries(see BoxeR), and a decrease in passion after playing the same game for 20 years.

ROOTFayth

Canada3351 Posts

May 17 2013 18:05 GMT

#140

Pretty much as cloud said it imo, it's not about getting slower or dumber, it's just about not being as motivated.... since there's little to no future in this... our parents can't support us forever

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