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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On May 16 2013 03:25 AnomalySC2 wrote: Competitive multiplayer games are the most addictive by far. Yea but when you are actually turning in a danger for yourself and for others, it's time to put a serious hold on it, no matter how addictive. | ||
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Lawkk
12 Posts
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is. In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever. My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness. You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating. Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger. I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life." At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game. P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously. EDIT: grammar. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:22 Mjolnir wrote: I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is. In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever. My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness. You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating. Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger. I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life." At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game. P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously. EDIT: grammar. I'm sure people are much more realistic about their physical limitations than their mental ones. I believe that it is much easier to dismiss a loss in a team sport, as well, since you're able to spread the 'blame' out a little. You might have never gotten pissed off at teammates in football who don't give 100% when you feel like you're giving 150%, but I have. You may have never been enraged by a punch to the face, but it would sure as hell set me off 100x more than losing to a no-scout 6pool on a 4player map. I'm not sure what "type" of personality I am, but I'd like to think that I have a fiercely competitive nature and I'm quick to anger. It's just realizing where you're going mentally before you get there and pulling yourself out of it before you punch a wall over some stupid shit. I've been playing SC2 since release and have only ever ignored 2 people out of innumerable shit-talkers. It's actually fun to laugh at all the offensive shit people say when they win / lose and not even justify it with a response. Don't feed the trolls and you'll find they annoy you less. | ||
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Cortza
South Africa328 Posts
Some people, in my opinion people who are more prone to a lack of self-control, flock towards games like this because of the easy rode at the beginning. It gives one a huge ego boost, and a sense of control, to be able to master easy stuff quickly and reap the rewards. There's no need to think of one's opponent, because it's more of a question of who can field more information for himself. Then as things get harder and the design team isn't holding your hand making things easy for you, you progress in dribs and drabs because of this over-reliance on the initially accessible design aspects of the game. I think anyone would find this type of improvement frustrating. It's less of a learning experience. It might seem like your opponent who wins against you has some secret knowledge, but really he's just reaching into places the design team weren't looking. | ||
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sacrilegious
Canada863 Posts
So many years later since WC3, hopefully I believe I "grew up" as one like op should as well, and realizes you can't always rage (admittingly it's harder in team games, then to blame yourself in solo games like SC2). If one is a recipient of someone's flames during a game, understand that some people also have a winning mentality and you should grow a thicker skin. Games are just so competitive these days, not like the good old days of single player Super Mario Bros | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:45 dUTtrOACh wrote: I'm sure people are much more realistic about their physical limitations than their mental ones. I believe that it is much easier to dismiss a loss in a team sport, as well, since you're able to spread the 'blame' out a little. You might have never gotten pissed off at teammates in football who don't give 100% when you feel like you're giving 150%, but I have. You may have never been enraged by a punch to the face, but it would sure as hell set me off 100x more than losing to a no-scout 6pool on a 4player map. I'm not sure what "type" of personality I am, but I'd like to think that I have a fiercely competitive nature and I'm quick to anger. It's just realizing where you're going mentally before you get there and pulling yourself out of it before you punch a wall over some stupid shit. I've been playing SC2 since release and have only ever ignored 2 people out of innumerable shit-talkers. It's actually fun to laugh at all the offensive shit people say when they win / lose and not even justify it with a response. Don't feed the trolls and you'll find they annoy you less. I don't know, I'm as hard on myself in physical sports as I am in any other area of life, and I'd say I have higher expectations of myself in terms of physical prowess than I do with regard to how well I play a game like SC2. Some of the sports I played competitively, there's no one else to blame but myself, so I don't think it's a matter of being able to blame others. Different strokes, I suppose. Everyone is different. Where a punch in the face might make you angry, it just makes me clinical. Where a loss in a close game where your enemy is spamming tier one on 2 bases and you're desperately trying to hold it with tier 3 and 4 bases might not make you angry at all, it makes me want to reach through the screen and strangle someone  Who knows why it is; but I still suggest the OP buy a heavy bag  | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:02 Mjolnir wrote: I don't know, I'm as hard on myself in physical sports as I am in any other area of life, and I'd say I have higher expectations of myself in terms of physical prowess than I do with regard to how well I play a game like SC2. Some of the sports I played competitively, there's no one else to blame but myself, so I don't think it's a matter of being able to blame others. Different strokes, I suppose. Everyone is different. Where a punch in the face might make you angry, it just makes me clinical. Where a loss in a close game where your enemy is spamming tier one on 2 bases and you're desperately trying to hold it with tier 3 and 4 bases might not make you angry at all, it makes me want to reach through the screen and strangle someone Who knows why it is; but I still suggest the OP buy a heavy bag The entire discussion of Tier 1 / 2 / 3 is actually much more complicated than you may think. The ideal counter to "Tier 3" units is to abuse their immobility and heavy cost. The easiest way to do this, believe it or not, is cheap, fast units or as you call them "Tier 1". Oddly enough, despite the cost differences between these units, the supply is what matters. You might think "snarf, I have T3, he has T1, why am I losing?" when really, it's X supply of stimmed 3-3 marines with medivacs vs what you thought was a cute idea to tech switch to 1-0 Carriers. If you actually think about it, why in the hell would you not also make cheap units with a better economy? By teching up to Tier 3, which is overrated, btw, you piss away your economical advantage and have a smaller and less mobile army. This allows your opponent to be in more places and to have a larger supply than you. In essence, you're not losing to Tier 1 that is overpowered, you're beating yourself by picking the wrong way to handle the situation you're in. Yes, get mad at yourself; you fucked up, but don't hurt yourself (damaging your hands will make you worse at the game - it turns out hands are pretty important). Don't bother getting mad at your opponent; rather, be impressed by your opponent's ability to beat your terrible strategy and try to understand why it was terrible. Don't get mad at David Kim; the game's pretty balanced and fully upgraded Tier 1 might as well be Tier 3 - for the most part, it's better. EDIT: I won't suggest that the OP by a heavy bag. Rather, he needs to learn more self-discipline. Punching shit is almost the worst thing you can do after losing a game. Feeling like you need to punch or hurt things when you're angry is a sign that you're not as rational as you think. You might take good grades, but that doesn't make you smart or in control of yourself. | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
Holy shit though, it's just a game, how do you flip out over it? If your anger is that bad, how did you get through life? Did you just avoid all team sports/games growing up? | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:29 EAGER-beaver wrote: Guns don't kill people, starcraft losing streaks kill people! Holy shit though, it's just a game, how do you flip out over it? If your anger is that bad, how did you get through life? Did you just avoid all team sports/games growing up? Usually in team sports or games the amount of information that you have at all times is enough to tell you why you lost, and you're able to see with your own eyes that your opponent(s) played better than you. I find that the lack of information in SC leaves one quite mystified as to how they lost and this confusion can lead to anger (particularly during the moments immediately after / during the game, when the adrenaline is going and your senses are heightened). Take someone who is in their comfort zone in day-to-day life and subject them to the unfamiliar sensation of loss and confusion or disdain for the way in which they lost, and that seemingly normal person can get quite upset. Take the "amped" state that they're in into consideration; not everybody is relaxed and calm when they play (you might call it being nervous). Personally, I feel a sense of fear & excitement during 1v1 play (especially tournament play) and find myself trying to suppress these emotions while playing so that they don't give me tunnel-vision. During this time, I'd say I'm much more susceptible to emotional EDIT: You really are battling yourself and your opponent in SC, and also trying to make rational, correct decisions all the while. Such a good game for people who can control their psyche. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:22 Mjolnir wrote: I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is. In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever. My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness. You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating. Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger. I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life." At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game. P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously. EDIT: grammar. I like your explanation, I think there's something to it. I wouldn't want to tell anyone how to deal with it since these things are very personal/individual and what works for me might not work for you, but I have a suggestion. I think telling yourself it's just a video game, i.e. trivializing it, is only part of the solution, and not a satisfying solution if you want to compete, if you want the feeling that you're in a battle and give it all you got, which is when winning is so damn satisfying. What I'd suggest ist that you try and shift your focus towards playing well rather than winning. This is where the other guy cannot force his will upon you. You go into the match thinking 'ok, that guy will do whatever he can to beat me, as will I to beat him. That is our job as opponents. I'll try to do my job well. If I lose, at some point I haven't done my job.' Take the opponent as a given. Take it as a given that he will be annoying and will be pestering you and throw shit at you. That's his job. That's the situation you are going into voluntarily to see how you hold up. Let him do what he wants and focus on holding up. Specifically, that means to focus on not getting supply blocked, on scouting, expanding, and so on. Focusing on absolutely wanting to win is dead wrong. (That's what Idra recommended once - see where it got him. Amazing potential but never performing consistently because of bad attitude. I'm serious, and not spiteful. It's tragic.) For an analogy, imagine you meet a girl you want. If you talk to her constantly thinking how you want to get her into bed, you will most likely suck at conversing with her, and she will see through it. In these situations, you perform when you don't have an agenda, when you're just doing your thing, having fun talking to her, not scheming and planning, just giving it the best you've got, being the best self you can be in the present situation and nowhere else. On ladder, you can often tell when your opponent absolutely wants to win, is probably on a losing streak and pissed off. This is often what makes them cheese, and they rage even more when it doesn't work. This state of mind and focus should be avoided. The winning player on the other hand often is not the one with the most cunning plan or the most determination to win, but simply the one who didn't get fucking supply blocked as much and had a 15 worker lead. You do what you do. The opponent only has power over you if you give it to him. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Lauriel
United States108 Posts
Thinking about it, another thing that got me really really upset was losing to things that I just didn't know how to respond to. If I scouted something and knew it was coming, and still had absolutely no idea how to counter it, anger was quick to follow. It's just something I don't experience much in real life (having absolutely no idea how to respond). Also, for the person who said I'm not interested in looking for a solution, I have to disagree. I never ruled out therapy or anything of that nature, but I'd like to try to see if I can solve the problem on my own first. So far (I know, small sample size) it's going well. Also, to the person who asked me to inquire with my insurance about therapy, I don't have insurance. I'm an independent contractor, which means that unless I go out of my way to purchase insurance for exorbitant prices, my medical insurance basically consists of just band-aids and asprin. | ||
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Lauriel
United States108 Posts
On May 16 2013 07:08 Chaggi wrote: I expect an apology from you Lauriel, you BM me too much Pshh, you think I'm awesome and you know it. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
I don't know about you but I talk to people who are SO MUCH better than me at this game a lot, from all different races, and it makes me realize I'm utter crap still, and even if I look like I can do an MKP stutter step, I really fail in every other instance to become like MKP. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On May 16 2013 03:17 BlinkGosu wrote: Im literally disgusted that this thread is still here. Mod please Close this. inb4 warning I never get posts like this, if you dont like a thread, just dont open it. Seems pretty simple. On May 16 2013 04:22 Mjolnir wrote: I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is. In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever. My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness. You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating. Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger. I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life." At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game. P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously. EDIT: grammar. I guess that is a big part of the sc2rage. Sometimes you get behind in the start, may it be due to you playing a more save opening, fucking up or cheesing yourself. Then you have the feeling "there is no way of comming back from this". You know that your opponent will just do x and y and therefore win the game. You know this is comming and you cant do anything about it, and then it goes they way you predicted it and yet the outcome is the same: you lose. But it is not even about losing, in certain MUs you know it will go this way and you cant do nothing against it and you have to deal with it. For example in zvsz you know this "fucker" will go mutas and drone like a bitch (swear words are stylistic devices here) but you cant do anything but be more greedy and go mutas yourself. That really makes me angry sometimes, situations where you know your opponent is doing x but you cant really punish him for doing so. Sometimes you do nothing wrong and still lose the game because the opponent took a huge risk and got away with it. Then you think to yourself "man i just should have allined him and win" and then sometimes you allin a guy because you think he is too greedy and he holds it. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:23 dUTtrOACh wrote: The entire discussion of Tier 1 / 2 / 3 is actually much more complicated than you may think. The ideal counter to "Tier 3" units is to abuse their immobility and heavy cost. The easiest way to do this, believe it or not, is cheap, fast units or as you call them "Tier 1". Oddly enough, despite the cost differences between these units, the supply is what matters. You might think "snarf, I have T3, he has T1, why am I losing?" when really, it's X supply of stimmed 3-3 marines with medivacs vs what you thought was a cute idea to tech switch to 1-0 Carriers. If you actually think about it, why in the hell would you not also make cheap units with a better economy? By teching up to Tier 3, which is overrated, btw, you piss away your economical advantage and have a smaller and less mobile army. This allows your opponent to be in more places and to have a larger supply than you. In essence, you're not losing to Tier 1 that is overpowered, you're beating yourself by picking the wrong way to handle the situation you're in. Yes, get mad at yourself; you fucked up, but don't hurt yourself (damaging your hands will make you worse at the game - it turns out hands are pretty important). Don't bother getting mad at your opponent; rather, be impressed by your opponent's ability to beat your terrible strategy and try to understand why it was terrible. Don't get mad at David Kim; the game's pretty balanced and fully upgraded Tier 1 might as well be Tier 3 - for the most part, it's better. EDIT: I won't suggest that the OP by a heavy bag. Rather, he needs to learn more self-discipline. Punching shit is almost the worst thing you can do after losing a game. Feeling like you need to punch or hurt things when you're angry is a sign that you're not as rational as you think. You might take good grades, but that doesn't make you smart or in control of yourself. I really hesitated to reply to this because I don't want to get dragged into a huge debate over a difference of opinions. However, without getting into too much here, there are a couple things I feel are worth mentioning: The scenario you brought up regarding tier one and tier three isn't like what I was referring to. I'm not talking about some silly tech switch to mass carrier getting wiped out by marines. I'm talking about a nicely mixed army of units (including those designed to take out tier one) getting wiped out by something like MMM. The way you framed it makes it sound like a trivial misunderstanding in game mechanics on my part. It isn't. I play master league, I get the game. There are times when the game seems absurd, although it's probably not worth getting into as it derails the thread. The other thing is that I don't hit things and I don't get angry at my opponent, nor do I wish them ill will - even if they talk trash. It's not them that I'm angry at. It's not as simple as "be more disciplined." I am disciplined - I just get angry. That's why it's a unique issue. It could be the same for the OP, too. Which is why he's asking for help and wanting to know why. It's isn't fair, or accurate, to simply suggest that someone isn't as "rational" as they think they are, simply because one aspect of their lives causes them to get angry from time to time. People get upset by different things. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:58 FrogOfWar wrote: I like your explanation, I think there's something to it. I wouldn't want to tell anyone how to deal with it since these things are very personal/individual and what works for me might not work for you, but I have a suggestion. I think telling yourself it's just a video game, i.e. trivializing it, is only part of the solution, and not a satisfying solution if you want to compete, if you want the feeling that you're in a battle and give it all you got, which is when winning is so damn satisfying. What I'd suggest ist that you try and shift your focus towards playing well rather than winning. This is where the other guy cannot force his will upon you. You go into the match thinking 'ok, that guy will do whatever he can to beat me, as will I to beat him. That is our job as opponents. I'll try to do my job well. If I lose, at some point I haven't done my job.' Take the opponent as a given. Take it as a given that he will be annoying and will be pestering you and throw shit at you. That's his job. That's the situation you are going into voluntarily to see how you hold up. Let him do what he wants and focus on holding up. Specifically, that means to focus on not getting supply blocked, on scouting, expanding, and so on. Focusing on absolutely wanting to win is dead wrong. (That's what Idra recommended once - see where it got him. Amazing potential but never performing consistently because of bad attitude. I'm serious, and not spiteful. It's tragic.) For an analogy, imagine you meet a girl you want. If you talk to her constantly thinking how you want to get her into bed, you will most likely suck at conversing with her, and she will see through it. In these situations, you perform when you don't have an agenda, when you're just doing your thing, having fun talking to her, not scheming and planning, just giving it the best you've got, being the best self you can be in the present situation and nowhere else. On ladder, you can often tell when your opponent absolutely wants to win, is probably on a losing streak and pissed off. This is often what makes them cheese, and they rage even more when it doesn't work. This state of mind and focus should be avoided. The winning player on the other hand often is not the one with the most cunning plan or the most determination to win, but simply the one who didn't get fucking supply blocked as much and had a 15 worker lead. You do what you do. The opponent only has power over you if you give it to him. Yeah, this is good stuff. Focusing on one's own play and individual improvement probably really helps to compartmentalize a lot of the emotions riding on the game. The other person simply becomes a machine to test your self-improvement rather than an opponent to overcome so that you may win the game. The game becomes getting better when faced with different obstacles, rather than just going out and winning. | ||
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FoxShine
United States156 Posts
I have dealt with impatience and anger at a few times in my life. I wen't through a couple of short periods where i would get angry after losing starcraft, especially when somebody is BM. by the same token, i have also laughed in the face of BM that would have made me tilt/angry before. Think about what you've learned about the body's physiology. That the feelings you are having is a surge of hormones namely adrenaline and cortisol. You read online that exercising and doing things to vent this energy helps. Using the adrenaline for something constructive like exercising is a really good anger management technique. Day9 recommended squeezing a towel to help with ladder anxiety/frustration. Namely to rinse out those hormones. When considering anger management particularly on the psychological side of things. It is healthy to recognize the feelings that are making you feel upset and reflect on them in a rational way. Understanding that its either OK or silly to be feeling angry knowing its just chemicals and waiting for it to pass. However, i did I read a study a while back showing that Venting anger and frustration may not actually be helpful. As it promotes holding onto those feelings and what not. So running or squeezing things may help the hormonal side of things, but reemphasizing what is making you angry may just make you hold onto it more. I found that with ladder anxiety/frustration/anger that this is the case. I truly believe that when your angry on ladder your angry for anger's sake. You know what your frustrated about, that it's not a big deal, but with the surge of anger it just reenforces your negative thoughts; gives them a purpose. It's just sort of a habitual response that you have to break. | ||
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Morlock
68 Posts
If it's balance that is so enraging, either switch race or simply resign yourself to the fact that your race is the underdog or your preferred playing style with that race doesn't suit the game. I have strong views about balance, and I still can't resist making the occasional snarky comment when somebody who's obviously carried by his race thinks he's pro when he beats me with the exact same tactics that I face almost every game against his race. But I don't rage as much as I used to. | ||
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