Apologies in advance if there's another topic on this that I missed, or if the SC2 General forum isn't the place for something of this nature. I did the best I could and don't mean to make additional work for anyone. I also want to preface this by saying that this isn't an easy thread for me to create. It's a topic I try to avoid, and paints me in an extremely unflattering light. Frankly I'm embarrassed, but then again, if I didn't feel like this was important to ask for advice on, I wouldn't go through the trouble.
I'm 27 years old. I'm about to be a masters student, I have a full-time job that I love and feel makes a difference, plenty of friends and hobbies outside of gaming, I'm in a stable, long-term, healthy relationship with a wonderful girl, and I generally have a pretty awesome life. I also suffer (if that's the appropriate word choice), from uncontrollable, debilitating gaming rage that at times has had a direct impact on my professional life, my romantic life, and my own safety.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about typing out obscenities after losing a game, punching a pillow, and being in a sour mood for a few minutes. The level of anger after a few losses rises to the point where I no longer feel as though I'm in control of my own body. I don't drink much, and have never done a drug in my life, but it's how I imagine it must feel to be on some sort of mind-altering substance, where rational thought no longer has any bearing on your actions. A short list of things that I've been driven to include (but are not limited to):
1. Slamming my fists into any objects around me with such force and consistency that I have damaged the nerves in my hands, wrists, and fingers several times, sometimes requiring months to heal. At one point I thought I was going to need surgery for a nerve impingement, but was fortunate to be able to avoid it. 2. Throwing, damaging, and breaking objects around me. Yesterday, I managed to slam 4 or 5 keys off of my $120.00 mechanical keyboard. Fortunately I was able to find them and re-attach them and it still works (good on you, Corsair!). 3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst. I was actually cited for a noise violation by my apartment complex late last year for this and the associated slamming and banging. 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
The strange thing is that absolutely nothing else in my life gets me this upset. Nothing. I'm a very relaxed, easy-going guy in every other facet of my life. If anyone I worked with or went to school with knew this side of me existed, they would be utterly, incredibly shocked. I can't explain why video games (and starcraft, in particular) is such a trigger for me, but it has me on the verge of quitting the game, which I don't want to do because I love it, and the entire E-sports scene in general.
So...I know other people out there have had this issue, or are currently dealing with this issue. How do you handle it? How do you change your frame of mind? When you feel yourself going all nerd-hulk and losing control, how do you bring it back and step away without doing something that you later feel embarrassed about? How do you maintain a fierce competitive fire without letting it consume you?
If I've bm'd anyone on the ladder who reads this thread, I'm sorry. It's not me, really. When I'm in that moment, I just don't feel like myself anymore, and say and do things that I later regret. As I said before, I don't want to quit Starcraft 2, but I'm not sure what my options are beyond that.
Also in before "grow up kid." Yes, I should grow up. It's hard when it comes to this particular topic. I've managed to be a mature adult in every other facet of my life but this one. I'm working on it.
What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
If you want to improve, its better to lose than to win because its easier to see what you did wrong. Thats how i deal with it You should probably see someone about anger management if its hurting you this badly though. And taking a break from sc2 or just trying to have fun during games helps too.
I used to be like this, except for the speeding and screaming. What helped me a lot was that every time I lost I told myself that I was bad and I deserved the loss and I didn't win because I wasn't the better player. This mindset helped me a lot and made me into a better player.
I've generally found my rage to be highly correlated with what I do before I begin practice. A few basic questions
Also to the above poster - I don't think finding another hobby would help this. It's a competitive rage - so unless you want to stop competing for the rest of your life it's something to be overcome and solved.
Are you sleeping enough? Are you destressing before you begin playing? Are you eating enough / properly? Are you exercising regularly?
There's more but these are the most obvious. If you take care of yourself before and after you play - you'll not only play better but rage less if you do lose.
i know you said this before but maybe you should grow up? What I mean by this is look at your life and say "is losing a match in a video game I play for fun a big deal?" Sure we all get frustrated, when we lose, but grown ups move past those frustrating moments and power through them. But no offense I feel like your one of those people who shouldn't play video games you can lose at because of the fact you wrote:
1. Slamming my fists into any objects around me with such force and consistency that I have damaged the nerves in my hands, wrists, and fingers several times, sometimes requiring months to heal. At one point I thought I was going to need surgery for a nerve impingement, but was fortunate to be able to avoid it. 2. Throwing, damaging, and breaking objects around me. Yesterday, I managed to slam 4 or 5 keys off of my $120.00 mechanical keyboard. Fortunately I was able to find them and re-attach them and it still works (good on you, Corsair!). 3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst. I was actually cited for a noise violation by my apartment complex late last year for this and the associated slamming and banging. 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
really tells me that you need to grow up, get mental help, don't play the game. Hope this helps you, I am not trying to be mean, but your situation is pretty stupid.
Actually, I'd invest in talking to somebody about anger management or possible psychological issues. I have the same issues, but nowhere near this level. I'm fine after 20 seconds or so. This sounds like it runs deeper than SC2.
Um, why are you so mad? Remember that SC2 is just a game. It may be played by professionals, but for those who are not, in the end, it's just a game or a hobby. Even if you lose to something you deem imba, if you were good enough, you can beat it even if it is imba. Remember that ladder ranking =/= direct relative skill to other players. Be happy when you play! Don't take the game hard on yourself. Relax, don't go full try hard and apm spam at 400 apm.
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
It depends. Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
Also, a good mentality is to think of the real opponent as yourself. You battle against yourself to see if you can constantly improve, not to destroy your opponent. It's nice to win, but starcraft isn't exactly the game to reward you for winning. So if you can, remember that you are your own enemy, not your opponent.
If playing sc2 is an endangerment to you and those around you, then you should absolutely cut it out. Maybe take a few months off and see a therapist if it still bothers you.
And any advice you get on the internet is probably going to be wrong or unhelpful so take it with a grain of salt. That being said, in my opinion you should try to think about what is actually making you mad. Is it that you don't really understand the game and are getting frustrated over losses? Is the BM of your opponents just getting to your head? Are you playing sc2 as an escape from reality (are the problems stemming from outside the game)? These are questions that only you can answer but once you start thinking about them maybe you can work through it. But in the meantime, definitely take a break from the game because it sounds as if you aren't really achieving any of your sc2 goals or even having much fun playing as it is.
edit: the behavior you mention is 100% not normal, and you should 1) quit sc and 2) go see a doctor you are either childish and looking for internet pity, or are an actual threat to yourself and others around u
How do you feel about your loss ? Do you blame it on imbalance or good play from your opponent/bad play from you ?
I think there is a lot more rage if you think you lost a game because of imbalance. Because there is the notion that "whatever you do, your opponent is still going to win because his race is imba". And that's gotta make someone rage.
On the other hand, if you're raging at your own play, just look at your errors/replays and try to improve, try to think "I'm gonna learn something with every loss".
And also, as qxc says, try to improve all those things outside the game (sleep, stress, food, exercise).
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
It depends. Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
- you always practice against the random if you play on ladder. if you play on ladder, tell yourself beforehand that you might get cheesed and die and that your odds won't improve when you lose once. what is important for you is that you can die 2 or 10 times in a row to cheese and when you don't get cheesed once you might make a mistake or the opponent is just better.
- if you want to practice something in particular, practice with your friends.
I HAD similar problems, except the 4th one in the list. All I do is trying to not angry after losing bad games, because I believe that if I keep calm I'll get better faster.
And yes, getting a routine physical activity such as going to the gym will make a much better you.
It's all about mindset, stay calm and address what happened in the game. It's simple but emotions make humans humans, although that's also a weakness in humans. See someone who can help you or take out your stress by walking,working out,running after a hard loss/losses. In the end you have to think "is it really worth it?"
Does every loss trigger this, only ladder games or when you get BMed ? How do you feel when playing ? And what exactly is triggering it ? Just loosing cant be the reason because you will always loose a game when you play a bunch, and I doubt that you explode everyday.
Imagine a situation in real live where you actually felt beeing cheated or humiliated, how did you react there ? Did it also enrage you ?
On May 09 2013 08:56 qxc wrote: I've generally found my rage to be highly correlated with what I do before I begin practice. A few basic questions
Also to the above poster - I don't think finding another hobby would help this. It's a competitive rage - so unless you want to stop competing for the rest of your life it's something to be overcome and solved.
Are you sleeping enough? Are you destressing before you begin playing? Are you eating enough / properly? Are you exercising regularly?
There's more but these are the most obvious. If you take care of yourself before and after you play - you'll not only play better but rage less if you do lose.
best of luck
Competitive rage is the best term for it. I don't play SC2 professionally (nor will I ever), but I'm a highly competitive person, which is why I've been successful at...well everything I've tried to be, honestly. Telling myself I'm not good enough or that I'm bad is actually what leads me into these kinds of fits at times. It's rage at myself. The problem is that I'm so incensed after losing that I can't even stomach going back and watching the replay, because it'll just make me angrier. The result is that I just queue another game with a terrible mindset, and start spiraling.
As for your questions:
1. That's...interesting to answer. I've always had somewhat lighter sleeping habits than others I know. 6 hours is a great night for me, and 5 is doable (for a few days anyway). My father is the same way and in great shape into his 60s, so I'm not sure if it's genetic or what. I probably could sleep more though. 2. Usually when I'm beginning to play, I'm just getting home from work, which is, ironically, not that stressful. So...yes? I'm not doing anything specifically though to try to get into a good frame of mind. 3. I probably don't have the greatest eating habits in the world, but generally I'd say yes. I'm in relatively good shape and watch what I put in my body. 4. Unfortunately no. This is something I need to do more of.
I do all of these things. Once I snapped my headphones in half, crushed my mouse, broke my telephone, my keyboard, and punched my desk till I almost broke my hand. Fucking cheese! Well, I did all of those things, the more I played [and the more I played with friends, which I dont mind losing to] the less I got angry when losing a game. Now I'm just pissy for a few minutes.
@Lauriel. Exactly, its competition. I've flipped a table over once because I thought [accurately] that someone was cheating in monopoly.
I used to rage fairly hard, but I found that putting my losses, and the game as a whole, into perspective really helped me.
The fact is, when you lose, it sucks, but SOMETHING went wrong. If you lost to a cheese, the fix is probably quite simple - practice scouting, make sure you account for cheeses in your typical ladder builds (don't assume you can use GSL builds, b/c those builds are made to take risks and beat other pros, not to hold ladder cheese).
Anyway, try to remember that if you rage, you will impair, if not fully prevent your ability to learn after a loss, which turns an opportunity to improve into a REAL loss. Not only will you not learn, but you will play on tilt if you keep playing, and probably lose more. Understand that losing a game is a chance for you to get better -- I'd argue that losing and knowing why is better than winning and not knowing why -- and seize the opportunity rather than wasting it.
If that doesn't work for you, you should probably think about how important video games are in your life, and considering doing something else with your time. The "seek professional help" suggestions might seem condescending, but that's actually a good idea as well - being able to admit you have a problem and discuss it are important steps in the solution.
I'd really recommend stop playing. Just because we like gaming doesn't mean it's necessarily a healthy activity, especially with games as addictive as SC2. I know it was not good for me, and I was in a perpetual awful mood for the year or so I was really into laddering.
Also, QXC talked about how it's a competitive rage.. that's probably true, but there are things about gaming that compounds things like feeling despondent from losses and so on. If you're really the competitive type, I'd suggest getting into sports, like submission wrestling. The difference between losing in an environment where you're seated and not really using your body, and competing in a very strenuous physical activity, is the endorphins and other hormones released during such activity. You're less likely to rage and act out when you have this natural high combined with exhaustion going on, and physical activity in general has a very positive effect on mental states and even learning.
1. Stop playing, at least for a while 2. Exercise after a loss: do push ups or lift weights until you've depleted all your "rage energy" 3. type gg after every match and nothing else.
I totally understand where you come from. I never experienced rage as truly powerful as you say but i had my deal of rage moments (punching things and breaking stuff).
My advice? Find the source of your rage mentally, find the trigger. Think about it, what is truly pissing you off that much that you are going out of control? I found from my experience, once you get to the source and understand what pisses you off, you can mentally walk yourself out of it. Ask yourself questions. For example if you find out that it's because you find yourself worthless, ask yourself why, how etc. It really really does help if you are willing to try to understand yourself, instead of just letting yourself go through the episodes.
I would suggest a therapist if you want faster treatments but that doesn't mean you cant try help yourself as well. From how bad you are getting rage spits you really need to find out what makes you so upset, mentally.
To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
I completely understand where you're coming from, when I was 15 I punched a hole in the wall because a rogue wouldn't stop ganking me in WoW XD. Though, it honestly is quite simple, just get over it. No one is going to give a shit about your leet starcraft skills, nor will you ever get good enough to play in GSL or MLG and get a good ranking. Just let it go and make a concious effort to stay in control....that said, maybe you should try some drugs xD
I feel I get pretty heated when I ladder... but never to anything even close to ur levels of rage... but then again My parents would whoop my ass if I threw temper tantrums. (and I was one of those kids...who was quiet and friendly and the good one... until my tolerance/patience dam broke and then I would Lose it... like having my older brother who is 6" taller and about 80LB's heavier, in a corner crying as I stand over him with a baseball bat)
But then I turned like 10...and realized throwing temper tantrums is silly and childish.... so I don't punch random things and turn into a raging psycho anymore.
IDK why everyone is giving you so much advice/sympathy when its as simple as "Ur not 5 anymore, temper tantrums are bad!"
ITS LITERALLY A CHOICE. Just don't act like a psychopath when you play video games.
Did you not have older brothers growing up? Cause if you lived at my house, after you lost your shit one of the older siblings would have corrected this behavior pretty much immediately once you were at an age where it was ok to hit you hard in the arm/chest.
Don't understand all of the sympathy you are getting, for acting like a 5 year old in the breakfast cereal aisle.
maybe you should pay a large friend to put you in a chokehold everytime u throw a temper tantrum... should correct this problem of yours eventually.
On May 09 2013 09:06 Holy_AT wrote: Does every loss trigger this, only ladder games or when you get BMed ? How do you feel when playing ? And what exactly is triggering it ? Just loosing cant be the reason because you will always loose a game when you play a bunch, and I doubt that you explode everyday.
Imagine a situation in real live where you actually felt beeing cheated or humiliated, how did you react there ? Did it also enrage you ?
Not every loss. In fact, I can lose 3-4 in a row and not rage. It's when I go on a losing streak, or lose in a way that I know I shouldn't have.
In real life if I feel I've been cheated, wronged, or humiliated, I redouble my efforts to prove to the other person that they made a mistake, or atone for the mistake that I've made.
Maybe part of the problem is that I have no chance to atone for a loss on the ladder against an opponent. It's something to think about.
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
You dont need professional help, you just need a readjustment cognitively, how you view the situation. That can be done entirely on your own. Find practice partners [people you actually like] and play against them. Yes, you will probably still scream and get mad at them, or sign off after a loss, etc. But eventually it will stop being a competition between you and your friend(s), and instead be a relatively stress free example of practice. It honestly does help even when playing strangers.
You should talk to a mental health professional because you're probably deeply insecure / performance anxiety prone.
/EDIT/ Just the fact that you presume they wouldn't understand is remarkable. I'm sure you could discuss to help contextualize your anger in a way they would understand, even if they don't get all the gaming terms. Many docs have worked with military personnel, athletes, etc. They understand the concept of competition. I don't know what the goal of this thread is. I'm never surprised at the amount of discourse on the internet that basically boils down to: "Help me with this issue!" "potential solution" "No I won't do that solution !"
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
it's something that has an obvious negative effect on you. you already know what the easiest solution is, which is to quit. it doesn't sound like you enjoy winning, if the only thing you feel is relief. there's no reason you can't be a casual observer but just not play.
also i think it's a misconception that a therapist won't understand gaming rage. it sounds like you're afraid that they'll belittle your hobby and dismiss gaming altogether. that's not really what a psychotherapist does. they're not there to give you answers, but to try to get you to understand yourself, and to understand why you rage, and from there you can take your own steps to decrease your rage. if you're a student there are university services for this.
You should get some professional help and take an anger management class. Starcraft isn't the real issue here and you probably have some underlying things that need to be resolved.
On May 09 2013 09:16 Chessz wrote: You should talk to a mental health professional because you're probably deeply insecure / performance anxiety prone.
Personally I just chill.
My job is in the performance business. It's not that.
On May 09 2013 08:56 qxc wrote: I've generally found my rage to be highly correlated with what I do before I begin practice. A few basic questions
Also to the above poster - I don't think finding another hobby would help this. It's a competitive rage - so unless you want to stop competing for the rest of your life it's something to be overcome and solved.
Are you sleeping enough? Are you destressing before you begin playing? Are you eating enough / properly? Are you exercising regularly?
There's more but these are the most obvious. If you take care of yourself before and after you play - you'll not only play better but rage less if you do lose.
best of luck
Well, from my perspective, another hobby might just well be the solution. For me, I have played Starcraft 2 on a somewhat competitive level(high masters) ever since it came out and until about 5 months ago when I took a break. I never had any rage moments that compelled me to shout out loud or curse or such a thing. Always when I lost I could identify the mistake and simply move on. I may have had the game run through my head all night because of a simple mistake I made, and that would perhaps upset me a little, but no visible rage whatsoever, and no real discomfort. But then playing a game like Dota or HoN, the story is altogether different, in my case at least. Then I can curse & shout out loud quite a bit because of my frustration with _others_ and their mistakes (presumed by me). As such, I conclude that in my case it is way more beneficial to my mindset, and thus perhaps health, to play a 1vs1 competitive game than a 5vs5 one (especially if in the 5v5 you are generally playing as a solo player with 4 random people. It's not really bad when you're just playing with your mates).
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
it's something that has an obvious negative effect on you. you already know what the easiest solution is, which is to quit. it doesn't sound like you enjoy winning, if the only thing you feel is relief. there's no reason you can't be a casual observer but just not play.
also i think it's a misconception that a therapist won't understand gaming rage. it sounds like you're afraid that they'll belittle your hobby and dismiss gaming altogether. that's not really what a psychotherapist does. they're not there to give you answers, but to try to get you to understand yourself, and to understand why you rage, and from there you can take your own steps to decrease your rage. if you're a student there are university services for this.
Without going terribly into detail, I've had enough dealings with therapists to know that it's not an option I wish to pursue (and these dealings weren't as a patient, fyi).
Just the fact that you presume they wouldn't understand is remarkable. I'm sure you could discuss to help contextualize your anger in a way they would understand, even if they don't get all the gaming terms. Many docs have worked with military personnel, athletes, etc. They understand the concept of competition. I don't know what the goal of this thread is. I'm never surprised at the amount of discourse on the internet that basically boils down to: "Help me with this issue!" "potential solution" "No I won't do that solution !"
Dude, you're 27 ? You seriously need guidance if this is how you are acting. Quit starcraft and see a psychologist.
To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end.
....Wait, so you make a long post seeking advice, people give you advice, and you turn around and say "im not going to respond". Figure it out by yourself then.
Without going terribly into detail, I've had enough dealings with therapists to know that it's not an option I wish to pursue (and these dealings weren't as a patient, fyi).
You already have dismissed it as an option without even trying it? Go as a patient.
On off days when i play poorly i can have similar problems. I have broken more than a few keyboards, mice, monitors etc. Not only being worried about my pocketbook but also the damage i can do to my hands i tried to find a way to help this.
One of my roommates suggested that i focus all this energy into something as simple as doing push ups. Having all the pent up energy is the reason things always go south for me, so just exhausting it all into the ground (mind you best pushups i ever do) helps release the energy from the body; in essence grounding yourself.
Hardest part is always catching myself on the initial desire to slam my keyboard.
On May 09 2013 09:23 cactusjack914 wrote: Dude, you're 27 ? You seriously need guidance if this is how you are acting. Quit starcraft and see a psychologist.
To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end.
....Wait, so you make a long post seeking advice, people give you advice, and you turn around and say "im not going to respond". Figure it out by yourself then.
Seriously. If a large number of people offered the suggestion of getting pro help, in response to the details given in the OP, wouldn't you take it seriously? Most people can't offer other "alternative solutions" because they don't experience such abnormal behavior/displays. For those people a proper solution might be to take breaks, play unranked, stream to your friends/get feedback etc.
For OP THO, it's obvious you should get some help. So that's why we're telling you. You can go ahead and "not respond" (is anyone sensing an immaturity underneath OP's writing?) but.. why even make the topic to begin with then?
Those who have recommended exercise as a way of relieving the stress sounds promising to me, as I'm in relatively good shape and actually used to do pushups and crunches regularly. It sounds like a good opportunity to get back to it.
Usually I take control before I lose control. When I sense I'm about to lose my shit, I pause and consciously try to control my emotions. I also mentally list the risks and rewards of indulging my anger (which is obviously incredibly skewed towards not hulking out). Taking a break also works.
On May 09 2013 09:23 cactusjack914 wrote: Dude, you're 27 ? You seriously need guidance if this is how you are acting. Quit starcraft and see a psychologist.
To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end.
....Wait, so you make a long post seeking advice, people give you advice, and you turn around and say "im not going to respond". Figure it out by yourself then.
Seriously. If a large number of people offered the suggestion of getting pro help, in response to the details given in the OP, wouldn't you take it seriously? Most people can't offer other "alternative solutions" because they don't experience such abnormal behavior/displays. For those people a proper solution might be to take breaks, play unranked, stream to your friends/get feedback etc.
For OP THO, it's obvious you should get some help. So that's why we're telling you. You can go ahead and "not respond" (is anyone sensing an immaturity underneath OP's writing?) but.. why even make the topic to begin with then?
Don't misunderstand. My not responding has nothing to do with not seeing the validity of the opinion. I'd just like to avoid it if I can, and there's not much to say in response to it. I understand that it's a very real option, but I'm looking for alternative solutions first.
I've never acted out physically or verbally as a result of losing streaks, but I do feel pretty bad. However, I never have this type of feeling playing against my friends, even if I lose 20 games in a row (literally).
I think you should try to avoid ladder for a while. For the next fortnight or two, only play against friends. See if that helps! I find that after I've played and practiced very specifically with friends, ladder has pretty much no emotional hold over me. It's even better now that you can load up a replay with your friend and go over the game together on Skype!
EDIT: I'm going to add another vote for regular exercise. When I'm exercising regularly (cycling 150-200 miles/week), every aspect of my life seems to go more smoothly. I'm more productive and energetic at work, happier with my friends and roommates, etc etc. Exercise does wonders for your brain chemistry.
On May 09 2013 09:23 cactusjack914 wrote: Dude, you're 27 ? You seriously need guidance if this is how you are acting. Quit starcraft and see a psychologist.
To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end.
....Wait, so you make a long post seeking advice, people give you advice, and you turn around and say "im not going to respond". Figure it out by yourself then.
Seriously. If a large number of people offered the suggestion of getting pro help, in response to the details given in the OP, wouldn't you take it seriously? Most people can't offer other "alternative solutions" because they don't experience such abnormal behavior/displays. For those people a proper solution might be to take breaks, play unranked, stream to your friends/get feedback etc.
For OP THO, it's obvious you should get some help. So that's why we're telling you. You can go ahead and "not respond" (is anyone sensing an immaturity underneath OP's writing?) but.. why even make the topic to begin with then?
Don't misunderstand. My not responding has nothing to do with not seeing the validity of the opinion. I'd just like to avoid it if I can, and there's not much to say in response to it. I understand that it's a very real option, but I'm looking for alternative solutions first.
Okay then. Well I suggest what I wrote already, in addition to a stress squeezy ball, or something. I've heard some people will play 10 games and then make a workout given how many games they lost. 5 games lost = 50 pushups or 5 miles run or something. I don't know man. I really feel like you need to seek a professional given the extremity of what you said.
This whole thing feels like a facebook post with emo lyrics..
first off, some huge idiots in this thread based on the "advice" they're giving... "grow up" yeah, i'm sure that'll solve the problem brilliant advice that will focus on the core issues at hand.
I used to rage very hard, but my life isn't nearly as nice as yours.
What cured it is I had to set goals before my matches, and also I started playing a lot of un ranked.
I found that a lot of what was ticking me off was mis clicks that costs me games. Stuff that was my own fault and made me feel terrible.
I still get very irritated sometimes, but my advice to you is to set a goal before each game.
Your goal for one game should be "ok i wanna not get supply blocked all game long, I don't care if I win or lose, it doesn't matter that's not the objective which is simply don't get supply blocked"
Then your next one can be "okay minerals don't get over a thousand all game long, doesn't matter if I win IN FACT i wanna lose so I know why exactly I lost while I was keeping my money low"
It's incredible that there are so many shitty people here giving useless advice. People feel anger because there are chemicals in the brain inducing the anger and it is NOT A CHOICE whether you are angry or not. Telling someone to just not be angry anymore is the same as telling a sad person to "man up and stop crying, it's just a movie" or telling someone with pain to stop feeling the pain or telling someone who is gay to stop being gay. It doesn't work like that.
I am a very copetetive person myself and get angry from time to time too, though not as bad as you. Back in the day I used to play handball and I barely ever raged. I think it is very likely, that regular physical activity reduces anger.
Another point might be the food you eat. I'm not sure but I think it might be unwise to eat sweets all the time while gaming. It's just anecdotical evidence at best but it can't hurt to try to have regular eating sessions and not so much in the meantime.
I dunno, try to think about how actually insignificant the game is? I pretty much never rage, ever. The most I ever feel is "damn I really fucked that up, that was dumb." And the main reason I have this mentality? Because you just have to look at your life from the outside. Like me, your life seems to be in a pretty damn good situation.
I have a day job as well that I love, has an awesome career path, pays above what I expected to make out of college, and pays for my further educational development. Starcraft is what I do when I'm home from work, when I relax. I don't give a shit about what happens in the game because my real priority is my work at the moment. That's what I need to "do better at."
I couldn't care less if I lose at Starcraft, it's why I play random, it's why I do random ass strats on a whim, etc. Who gives a fuck about getting better at this game? It accomplishes almost nothing positive in your daily life, regardless of how "competitive of a person you are." It doesn't get you in better shape like a physical sport does, in fact it will most likely do the opposite. In no way does it bolster your social skills. It's not going to make you money.
It's just something you do for fun, to kill time. Just try to laugh at how silly shit is in the game instead. Everytime someone rages, just laugh to yourself. When someone tells me to kill myself, I actually crack up out loud, because I think of the difference in importance the game holds over them vs me. When someone says something childish like "u mad bro?" or "HAHAHA YOU'RE RAGING RIGHT NOW HAHAHA" I laugh as well because they honestly just don't understand how little I care. And I play the game a fucking lot, 8,000+ games since release, former GM, often top of masters as random (ie. top 50 overall). Just take a step back, and release, there's absolutely no reason to give a shit about the game more than as a past time.
On May 09 2013 09:23 cactusjack914 wrote: Dude, you're 27 ? You seriously need guidance if this is how you are acting. Quit starcraft and see a psychologist.
To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end.
....Wait, so you make a long post seeking advice, people give you advice, and you turn around and say "im not going to respond". Figure it out by yourself then.
Seriously. If a large number of people offered the suggestion of getting pro help, in response to the details given in the OP, wouldn't you take it seriously? Most people can't offer other "alternative solutions" because they don't experience such abnormal behavior/displays. For those people a proper solution might be to take breaks, play unranked, stream to your friends/get feedback etc.
For OP THO, it's obvious you should get some help. So that's why we're telling you. You can go ahead and "not respond" (is anyone sensing an immaturity underneath OP's writing?) but.. why even make the topic to begin with then?
Don't misunderstand. My not responding has nothing to do with not seeing the validity of the opinion. I'd just like to avoid it if I can, and there's not much to say in response to it. I understand that it's a very real option, but I'm looking for alternative solutions first.
your case is more extreme and most people don't think that alternative solutions like working out after a loss is going to help. remember that you're betting your own health here. is playing sc2 so important that you're willing to risk damaging your hands more permanently or crashing your car while you try to find an alternative solution that works?
I got the same problem like you where I feel that I really can't control myself after a loss just bursting out rage. I don't think its easy for people who don't experience it to understand. I have no problem in losing in sports irl and other stuff but when it comes to starcraft and sometimes other games there comes unstoppable rage after losses. Although it has gotten better for me now than before its still there and I write stuff to opponents that I later regret. (And yes ive done worse stuff like destroyed a monitor and slammed a door, even got complete nuts etc) I stand by the point that its a behavior that have been learned and that it also can be changed. I think you should think through what you are focusing on, if you are focusing on avoiding to lose or focusing on the positive stuff like improving and winning. For me personally I know its my fear of losing, the shame that comes with it and me failing to live up to my expectations that causes my rage. Also I think that the constant talk about balance and imbalance from the community makes people feel like the game is unfair to them in many situations when playing. I played classic piano before infront of audience but I never really could handle the pressure because of the nerves(I started to shake alot when playing, ran out of stage two times even). That I still have the same issues when playing starcraft where there is no audience makes me believe that the nerves which imo also causes the rage comes from the high expectations and fear of failure. I think what you should also bring with you is that just cause you are losing that does not mean that someone is smarter, more talented or generally a better person than you, it just means they worked harder(or in a better way) to perfect their game play. Also accept that working with the behavior probably will take long time. Im still having quite some problems but atleast it has gotten better.
Hope some off this stuff can help you on your journey
i feel like most people rage because of embarrassment. Just realize no one thinks you are good at this game and you have nothing to be embarrassed about being bad Stop judging yourself and you will probably rage less.
I work at a psych hospital, albeit in the business office, but I deal with patients from time to time and I've been exposed to it long enough (had to chase down and take down a runaway patient my first month on the job). And honestly, from reading your 1-4 behaviors, you would meet criteria to be admitted into our hospital.
- High Risk Behaviors - Aggressive Behaviors - Destructive Behaviors - Danger to self and Danger to others - Irritability - Poor Impulse Control
I've had to do assessments for admitting patients before. In my opinion, go to a psych hospital and let them do an assessment on you, they do them for free. If you don't know which psych hospital to go to (because different ones have different specialties) or do not live close to one, go to an emergency room. They will do an assessment for you and send you to the nearest and most appropriate facility.
If you meet their criteria for admission and you want to go to seek help, don't freak out about it or get nervous. Don't think of it as a scary place you will have to stay at for years. You honestly come in and stay for around 7 days (the average at our hospital). You'll see the doctor for a long period of time the first day, and then for shorter periods everyday after that. You'll be in group therapy sessions. Depending on the hospital you'll be in a group with others with similar problems, or if it's a small place you'll have group with everyone on your unit (adult male, though some places have the females mixed). You'll get fed 3 meals a day minimum, be able to watch TV and relax with other patients. There is typically smoke breaks and gym time as well. There will also be visiting times, so your loved ones (the ones you want to know you're actually there) can visit. It could be a great experience for you; if you feel you really need to seek help.
If one of the reasons is because you want to practice something on ladder, and your opponent does something preventing that (like cheesing or early aggression), I think it would be helpful to re-think what it is to ladder for you.
I think if you can 1) change your mindset of the ladder 2) understand that nothing is personal 3) the result of a game is close to meaningless
your rage will decrease.
I think you should write out for yourself what the ladder is, what you think it is, and how that's different than the former.
Many people feel angry or cheated when they get cut off driving. They feel as if it's a personal attack on them, when in reality the person who cut them off probably just needed to get into that lane to exit, or was just moving into the passing lane, or something else entirely and they didn't realize it was something that would anger the person behind them. You might be feeling something similar. If that's the case, you need to somehow convince yourself (and maintain that mentaility while gaming) that the people you face on ladder aren't personally attacking you by cheesing or executing some other strategy, no matter what it is. Sure, some people might be trolling, but that's not personal either.
I would also recommend watching people who aren't effected by losses. Try to get inside their heads. Try to emulate them. I suggest watching TLO, Snute (though i haven't seen him stream for awhile), or Grubby. Try to grasp why it is they don't seem bothered by it. The mindset is similar to more traditional sports. You don't see people rage when they have someone dribble past them (in soccer or basketball), or if they drop a pass, have a bad touch, miss a shot etc etc. The best always keep playing, they don't let mistakes weigh them down for the remainder of the game. If they did they wouldn't be where they are. Understand that it's just part of the game, and maybe instead of thinking about each game of SC separately, think about it as one continuous game. Losing a game is just making bad touch or having the ball stolen from you. Just get it back. You don't punch the wall, or blame the person who was guarding you, you simply try to get it back. How do you get the ball back in SC? Press play again and try and win
On May 09 2013 08:52 rANDY wrote: Sounds like you should stop playing SC2, no game is worth this. Find another hobby that does not affect you so negatively.
just quoting this to say that this is absolutely the worst thing you can do. this doesn't help you deal with your anger and something later in your life could trigger more anger issues, and you still wont know how to deal with it.
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
It depends. Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
I know you said cheese isn't the only reason, but in the cases when it is the cause, just remember that cheeses or allins are valid strategies and make a mental note to look out for them next time or try to alter your build so that it is safe against that particular strategy.
Many people seem to think that they were somewhat cheated or that their opponent was inferior when they lose to cheese or allins, but the fact is that if you played greedy or blind and lost because of it, you have no one to blame but yourself (which I see you said you already do) but it's not worth raging at because you can easily see what your mistake was and become better for it.
On May 09 2013 09:13 FromShouri wrote: No one is going to give a shit about your leet starcraft skills, nor will you ever get good enough to play in GSL or MLG and get a good ranking.
On May 09 2013 09:42 Sephiren wrote: If one of the reasons is because you want to practice something on ladder, and your opponent does something preventing that (like cheesing or early aggression), I think it would be helpful to re-think what it is to ladder for you.
I think if you can 1) change your mindset of the ladder 2) understand that nothing is personal 3) the result of a game is close to meaningless
your rage will decrease.
I think you should write out for yourself what the ladder is, what you think it is, and how that's different than the former.
Many people feel angry or cheated when they get cut off driving. They feel as if it's a personal attack on them, when in reality the person who cut them off probably just needed to get into that lane to exit, or was just moving into the passing lane, or something else entirely and they didn't realize it was something that would anger the person behind them. You might be feeling something similar. If that's the case, you need to somehow convince yourself (and maintain that mentaility while gaming) that the people you face on ladder aren't personally attacking you by cheesing or executing some other strategy, no matter what it is. Sure, some people might be trolling, but that's not personal either.
I would also recommend watching people who aren't effected by losses. Try to get inside their heads. Try to emulate them. I suggest watching TLO, Snute (though i haven't seen him stream for awhile), or Grubby. Try to grasp why it is they don't seem bothered by it. The mindset is similar to more traditional sports. You don't see people rage when they have someone dribble past them (in soccer or basketball), or if they drop a pass, have a bad touch, miss a shot etc etc. The best always keep playing, they don't let mistakes weigh them down for the remainder of the game. If they did they wouldn't be where they are. Understand that it's just part of the game, and maybe instead of thinking about each game of SC separately, think about it as one continuous game. Losing a game is just making bad touch or having the ball stolen from you. Just get it back. You don't punch the wall, or blame the person who was guarding you, you simply try to get it back. How do you get the ball back in SC? Press play again and try and win
Thank you to everyone for the well thought out and helpful responses.
The first paragraph of your statement really resonates, as it's very much like how I imagine road rage would be (though I don't really get road rage very badly). It's a good comparison, though.
Thinking about all the games as one continuous one is an interesting idea too. As a fan of most professional sports, it's an interesting approach to take.
On May 09 2013 09:44 Kalingingsong wrote: if it's only limited to sc2, that would be very strange indeed. Are you sure you don't get it doing something else?
To this degree? Absolutely nothing else. Nothing at all, ever. Things annoy me from time to time, sure, and other games have caused some consternation, but absolutely nothing has caused this kind of reaction from me before.
Stop putting your ego into it. You're not gaining or losing anything.
Stop taking you losing so personally. Stop worrying about it. Know that the reason you lost is because you could have played better, and that you can learn from it.
On May 09 2013 09:53 riotjune wrote: What you need is an outlet for channeling your rage. Might I suggest joining a fight club or go to the shooting range.
I'd prefer exercising. I have no interest in fighting others and shooting ranges never did much as far as stress relief.
I don't understand why you see a psychiatrist as a "last resort". You have a problem which you've decided to address by posting for advice from a bunch of gamers on TL.net, instead of a professional. Your decision making is flawed, and it's costing your health, well-being, and most importantly, Starcraft II losses.
1. When you lose, type gg and nothing else. Regardless of the strategy you faced, you lost for a reason. 2. If you feel pent up anger inside you after a loss, exercise, it will help release your anger. 3. Understand that you cannot control everything that happens in sc2. Sometimes you will be hard countered, sometimes you will not scout a cheese that needs to be scouted in order to stop. Sometimes your opponent is just more skilled than you. 4. Perhaps switch races or play unranked. Maybe playing the game more casually can reignite your passion for the game and you wont be mad when you lose.
If you feel like playing sc2 and the resulting rage is impacting your life/relationship in a negative way maybe it is time to take a lengthy break to regain perspective on your life.
I know when I get mad at something throwing/breaking things or swearing does nothing but get me more heated and angry. Try taking deep breaths, drinking water and listening to relaxing music instead of letting your rage control your actions.
On May 09 2013 08:52 rANDY wrote: Sounds like you should stop playing SC2, no game is worth this. Find another hobby that does not affect you so negatively.
just quoting this to say that this is absolutely the worst thing you can do. this doesn't help you deal with your anger and something later in your life could trigger more anger issues, and you still wont know how to deal with it.
yep you're just avoiding it.
anger is a normal human emotion you just need to learn how to control.
You seem pretty full of yourself outside of sc2, and can't come to terms with the fact that you aren't all that good at the game. Knowing that there are people like you out there raging this hilariously hard after losing at Sc2 makes the feeling of beating douches on ladder that much more sweet. Fueled by their rage.... sure probably not as severe as this, but still.
On May 09 2013 10:03 Zanzabarr wrote: Is this a troll post or are you serious?
You seem pretty full of yourself outside of sc2, and can't come to terms with the fact that you aren't all that good at the game. Knowing that there are people like you out there raging this hilariously hard after losing at Sc2 makes the feeling of beating douches on ladder that much more sweet. Fueled by their rage.... sure probably not as severe as this, but still.
Serious post. I'm actually not full of myself at all, so I'm sorry if you got that impression from something I said. I also don't think I'm good at SC2, because I'm fully aware that I'm not.
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
The amount of armchair psychology in this thread makes my head hurt.
I've struggled with a less severe version of this, and it is quite difficult at times to deal with. I've recently gotten a lot better, and the only thing I can attribute it to is that now I find myself looking at my losses more analytically and thus less emotionally. The strange thing is that this just happened over time after playing more games.
This thread pops out right at the same time as IdrA is losing his group in WCS :D
Edit: Wow if it's serious, it seems pretty damn serious. I think you should stop playing if that's the only thing that is making such an effect on you.
On May 09 2013 10:03 Zanzabarr wrote: Is this a troll post or are you serious?
You seem pretty full of yourself outside of sc2, and can't come to terms with the fact that you aren't all that good at the game. Knowing that there are people like you out there raging this hilariously hard after losing at Sc2 makes the feeling of beating douches on ladder that much more sweet. Fueled by their rage.... sure probably not as severe as this, but still.
You make a post like this and then call other people douchebags o____O, classy.
look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
The amount of armchair psychology in this thread makes my head hurt.
I've struggled with a less severe version of this, and it is quite difficult at times to deal with. I've recently gotten a lot better, and the only thing I can attribute it to is that now I find myself looking at my losses more analytically and thus less emotionally. The strange thing is that this just happened over time after playing more games.
QXC's advice is pretty insightful as well.
I feel pretty confident I don't have a split personality.
Analytical approach mixed with exercise is something I think has promise.
What if you considered that everyone you played is just an AI? That's what I do and that works very well. The only thing I type is "gg" when I lose, before quitting the game, but aside from that I'm not even paying attention to what is said in the chat, so I can't really remember that I'm playing another dude. Do you feel the need to compete with another human being? Or would losing to an AI (even a very strong one :D) make you feel like breaking stuff as well?
Also, it's probably the only thing in your life when you can see yourself literally "lose", but in fact there are plenty of situations where we lose IRL, even if it's not obvious, and inconsequent (as it is in a video game, really). Of course that won't make you feel better, but at least don't tell you that the only thing you lose at is Starcraft. You probably lose a lot (even just if it's just lost opportunities) but you still live a happy life.
Edit: Also, did you try team games? At least you share your wins and your losses with your partner, so you can talk about it, laugh about it, and try to improve together.
Hey buddy, sounds like you don't know how to control your anger. Many guys have this problem. Few anger specific things you can do is hold your breath or take deep breaths and count to ten, don't slam shit and try to calm down. Like Day 9's momma said, it's literally just chemicals in the pit of your stomach, it's not the end of the world and the more you think breaking shit is appropriate the more you will do it.
Secondly, try and focus on having fun and getting better, not necessarily winning. Try to gg after every loss, because every loss is a lesson, whether it's how to stop a cheesy strategy or a hole in your build.
Sleep more. That's it. I was finding myself going on losing streaks of 7+ games and getting pissed towards the end off the night. Got demoted into masters once and absolutely dropped my shit. After getting promoted again I made a rule that if I lose 4 games in a row ill either have a break or if at night ill just goto sleep. But if you're not tired maybe you should just stop playing or try to get better gamesense, if you're losing to BS you should realise that you need to be more proactive on the map. Know what's coming
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
The amount of armchair psychology in this thread makes my head hurt.
I've struggled with a less severe version of this, and it is quite difficult at times to deal with. I've recently gotten a lot better, and the only thing I can attribute it to is that now I find myself looking at my losses more analytically and thus less emotionally. The strange thing is that this just happened over time after playing more games.
QXC's advice is pretty insightful as well.
What do you expect? Professional psychology? It's TeamLiquid ffs.
Go to some kind of professional. I don't really see why you posted this thread if you were just going to disregard this rather important step. What's with the reticence on that front?
If it takes a couple games lost to set you off, take a break after losing once. You have to avoid that which triggers you.Also, figure out what else you can do to participate in the e-sports world and only play once in awhile. My cousin goes through this same type of thing. He's broken his hand a couple times actually and there's no longer any chairs in his apartment (kinda lolzy on that one).
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
The amount of armchair psychology in this thread makes my head hurt.
I've struggled with a less severe version of this, and it is quite difficult at times to deal with. I've recently gotten a lot better, and the only thing I can attribute it to is that now I find myself looking at my losses more analytically and thus less emotionally. The strange thing is that this just happened over time after playing more games.
QXC's advice is pretty insightful as well.
What do you expect? Professional psychology? It's TeamLiquid ffs.
Go to some kind of professional. I don't really see why you posted this thread if you were just going to disregard this rather important step. What's with the reticence on that front?
Mostly the time and money involved, in addition to the fact that I generally like to try to solve problems on my own if I can help it.
I know there's irony in that previous statement considering this thread, but I looked at this as more of a way to collect ideas from other gamers who may have encountered this kind of thing.
Grow up is my simple advice. Stop playing whatever modes are pissing you off. I find team games much less frustrating and I try to play with friends or people I have met on the game. It is more fun to me and less stressful. Either way if you cant stop raging you shouldnt be playing.
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
The amount of armchair psychology in this thread makes my head hurt.
I've struggled with a less severe version of this, and it is quite difficult at times to deal with. I've recently gotten a lot better, and the only thing I can attribute it to is that now I find myself looking at my losses more analytically and thus less emotionally. The strange thing is that this just happened over time after playing more games.
QXC's advice is pretty insightful as well.
What do you expect? Professional psychology? It's TeamLiquid ffs.
Go to some kind of professional. I don't really see why you posted this thread if you were just going to disregard this rather important step. What's with the reticence on that front?
Mostly the time and money involved, in addition to the fact that I generally like to try to solve problems on my own if I can help it.
I know there's irony in that previous statement considering this thread, but I looked at this as more of a way to collect ideas from other gamers who may have encountered this kind of thing.
Not I get that, but a common response is 'seek professional advice as we aren't really qualified'.
There's a lot of good advice here doubtless, but there's also a lot of it to sift through, different approaches to go for etc. If you value your time as equivalent to your money, it might be better to cut through a trial/error process of seeing what works for you, and get some more qualified advice
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
The amount of armchair psychology in this thread makes my head hurt.
I've struggled with a less severe version of this, and it is quite difficult at times to deal with. I've recently gotten a lot better, and the only thing I can attribute it to is that now I find myself looking at my losses more analytically and thus less emotionally. The strange thing is that this just happened over time after playing more games.
QXC's advice is pretty insightful as well.
What do you expect? Professional psychology? It's TeamLiquid ffs.
Go to some kind of professional. I don't really see why you posted this thread if you were just going to disregard this rather important step. What's with the reticence on that front?
Sorry, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to express my displeasure for people making ridiculous assertions on a subject that they clearly know nothing about.
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
When I'm angry about a loss, I remind myself that it's just a video game. I'm not becoming a progamer and I'm not going to hit grand-master league, and I'm not playing in a tournament, so who cares about a loss? Then I picture that fat kid on youtube who destroyed his keyboard over rage about Maplestory and I laugh xD.
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
What solution has a 100% success rate?
quit playing
It solves it when it comes to starcraft, but what if it manifests in another game, or in another form? So far SC2 is the only game that has elicited that reaction, but I'd rather control the problem itself than just avoid the behavior that triggers it.
Thats a lot of rage lol. Try not playing SC2. It`s highly competitive and honestly there are a lot of dbags who'll try to unnerve you. A fre weeks or months off, like I did, will help cool some temper.
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
What solution has a 100% success rate?
I think he meant stopping playing completely.
You should look at this problem as a chance to learn something about yourself. It's pretty interesting that you don't rage in any other case but gaming. If you get this under control, this could be useful in the future at some point in life.
You could look for signs of your rage building up that you are missing now. If you notice the build up early enough, you wouldn't be surprised by overwhelming rage and could perhaps suppress it, or you could simply learn to stop your play session early enough.
You should definitely schedule a few minutes of pondering this problem each day, recalling and thinking about the feelings and thought process you had while gaming. Working at it daily is much better than an occasional long session of thinking. While you are sleeping, your brain rearranges itself, fusing the day's experiences with your long term memory. This gives the brain a new base to work from for the next day's work on the problem.
You don't actually seem to be getting anything out of playing SC2 so why bother. You just seem to be reluctant to quit because of all the time you've already sunk into it
Chill out, stick to watching Starcraft, play some ZooZoo instead. ZooZoo owns
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
What solution has a 100% success rate?
quit playing
It solves it when it comes to starcraft, but what if it manifests in another game, or in another form? So far SC2 is the only game that has elicited that reaction, but I'd rather control the problem itself than just avoid the behavior that triggers it.
Especially because I like Starcraft.
it should be obvious that arguing about hypotheticals isn't productive. if you want to solve the root of this problem for all future instances, get psychiatric help. if you want to solve the problem you have right now, quit.
On May 09 2013 11:14 wozzot wrote: You don't actually seem to be getting anything out of playing SC2 so why bother. You just seem to be reluctant to quit because of all the time you've already sunk into it
Chill out, stick to watching Starcraft, play some ZooZoo instead. ZooZoo owns
On May 09 2013 10:10 rauk wrote: look, think of it this way. i don't know what kind of job you do, but most require the use of your hands. what are you going to do if you injure your hands and can't work anymore? when you become a masters student, how are you going to take notes, type papers or work in the lab? what if you crash into someone's car while rage driving? you want your insurance to take a hit? what happens if you kill them by accident?
It's exactly these things that prompted me to make a post. However, when someone is in a fit of rage, logic doesn't play into the equation much.
right, so why are you taking that risk while you try different solutions that may or may not work out for you, when there's a clear solution with 100% success rate?
What solution has a 100% success rate?
I think he meant stopping playing completely.
You should look at this problem as a chance to learn something about yourself. It's pretty interesting that you don't rage in any other case but gaming. If you get this under control, this could be useful in the future at some point in life.
You could look for signs of your rage building up that you are missing now. If you notice the build up early enough, you wouldn't be surprised by overwhelming rage and could perhaps suppress it, or you could simply learn to stop your play session early enough.
You should definitely schedule a few minutes of pondering this problem each day, recalling and thinking about the feelings and thought process you had while gaming. Working at it daily is much better than an occasional long session of thinking. While you are sleeping, your brain rearranges itself, fusing the day's experiences with your long term memory. This gives the brain a new base to work from for the next day's work on the problem.
Perhaps you're just scapegoating. More than likely, your life isn't as wonderful as you decided to state it was, and you're in denial to the point where you really think your raging is somehow based entirely on the game itself.
Hey, everyone else got to play the therapist game. Just giving an alternate extreme!
speaking from own experience as long as u just punish your pc the problem will fade away on its own as time goes on u get a feeling that u should stop now and vent off before the anger bursts thats atleast my experience now that i can feel when i should stop before i go nuts . had/have some rage problems myself not only in starcraft but in computer games in general when thinks didn't go as i expected them should go
one examples a year ago: swtor datacron on tatoinee i fail the jump and run parcour for several hours and stubbornly continue till the rage bursts out in a smash my mouse on the table dilema which results in a hillarious result of mouse bouncing back from the table right into my monitor which was destroyed by impact :D
starcraft wise while laddering no rage problems at all but when training with my brothers it can get ugly it's not the loosing part which causes heavy rage it's more that i could slap myself for a silly mistake + stupid comment in teamspeak and the fist goes right into the keyboard
huge probs to cherry btw the g80 mechanical keyboard can take quite a beating before the inner components break :D
^^ The scapegoating was my initial thought too. I had a similar(ish) thing where the thing that was making me lose my cool had absolutely nothing to do with the game and took me a good while to realise it
On May 09 2013 11:27 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Perhaps you're just scapegoating. More than likely, your life isn't as wonderful as you decided to state it was, and you're in denial to the point where you really think your raging is somehow based entirely on the game itself.
Hey, everyone else got to play the therapist game. Just giving an alternate extreme!
I actually considered this, but I don't think it's the case. I'm pretty sure I'd rage in other instances if it were, and on top of that, I'm actually genuinely happy in other aspects of things. And I've been in a place where I wasn't, so I can tell the difference.
Mostly the time and money involved, in addition to the fact that I generally like to try to solve problems on my own if I can help it.
I know there's irony in that previous statement considering this thread, but I looked at this as more of a way to collect ideas from other gamers who may have encountered this kind of thing.
Time - you can be evaluated by someone at a psych hospital or an emergency room in 10 - 15 minutes, possibly even less. A psych hospital can actually do this over the phone for your convenience.
Money - said evaluation is free (unless at emergency room) and if you actually wanted to get help at a psych facility, your insurance will more than likely cover it.
Hey, if you want to compile everyones ideas to help you from ruining your life over Starcraft, then by all means try. But fix it or get help before you hurt yourself or someone else. In Starcraft we can always hit the 'play again' button, but in life we can't.
On May 09 2013 11:14 wozzot wrote: You don't actually seem to be getting anything out of playing SC2 so why bother. You just seem to be reluctant to quit because of all the time you've already sunk into it
Chill out, stick to watching Starcraft, play some ZooZoo instead. ZooZoo owns
I do like Starcraft 2.
A lot of people become alcoholics because they enjoy alcohol too, doesn't mean they shouldn't quit
Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
Yeah if you're risking your life over a video game you probably shouldn't be playing it. There are many other competitive ways to have fun, so play sports or pick up chess or something. Or try seeing a therapist and see if they don't tell you the same thing
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end.
You sound like a drug addict asking how to stop being addicted without quitting drugs
I have the same problems, its only SC2 that gets me this angry at losses. I have stoped playing competitively but continue watching GSL because i still love the game.
stop playing the game, there are enough idiots out there, no need to add another one because of a computer game. At your age you are not going pro anyway so whats the point since you clearly don't get any enjoyment out of the game itself.
I know others have said you should see a psychologist, I agree with that sentiment but there are other courses of action you can do yourself.
Start reading about cognitive behavior therapy. The phrases may sound scary, but the idea is about teaching you coping mechanisms that help deal with your adversities.
can you remember the last game that made you go completely apeshit?
did that person hack, cheese, exploit game imbalance, do a stupid all-in, or otherwise gain an unfair advantage?
if you feel you've been wronged -- your "revenge instinct" kicks in, driving you to say awful things and act violently.
if this is your problem, i'd recommend doing a lot of cheese and gimmicky all-ins (or whatever your opponent does that makes you rage) so that you accept those strategies as fair and valid ways to play.
I used to have a bit similar problem when i was around 14 years old. I was in a really heavy puberty period and i would just get annoyed by everthing. I would get especially annoyed by my family as i was around them alot (I lived in the same house ofc) at some point I would burst and I would start to rage against them.
When I was 15 years old we went on holiday to Indonesia, where I ended up in some temple with alot of people meditating. Eventhough I never meditated before, I just sat next to them on a pillow and just sat there for an hour. I just sat and thought about stuff, no weird stuff like clearing your mind or holding a specific posture, just think.
For some reason this really calmed me down mentally. Its not like i was frustrated at that point, but I felt so much more relaxed. Since then I try to "meditate" on my own way very often. I just sit on the couch, in the park, or even on the train on my way somewhere and I think. Just think. Ofcourse at first I start thinking about some homework, food, or some other random stuff. But at the end I usually end up thinking about how I could improve my life by doing something or thinking differently, and that really calmes me down. Even just realizing how happy I am is a really good way to calm down.
It might sound a bit weird and makes me look like a crazy hippie, just try it. It cant hurt right? I suggest you just go to the park and just sit on a bench. Or my favorite, just sit at a really crowed place and watch people do their thing (for example, go sit next to the Eifel Tower and watch people pass by). Just sit and think, maybe even for a couple hours straight. One thing: just make sure you have nothing else to do that day, as less stress possible is really beneficial.
About the therapists, For some reason people in the US always consult a therapist for their tiny stupid problems, eventho solving your own problems teaches you a lot more. In my country very few people see therapists even tho it is free (I actaully once read that seeing a psychiatrist can have bad results as it might fix your current problem, but makes you even less capable of fixing your next). As you stated yourself, try to solve it first, it is your last step.
I've had a few moments of rage in SC2 where I've slammed my palm into the keyboard or cursed pretty loudly, but never anything like what you're describing. That's honestly pretty insane. I don't know dick about psychology so I'm not going to try and figure out what's going on with you, but what I do know is that you can get a cursory evaluation from a therapist for little to no cost that if nothing else might set you on the right path.
As far as the game itself, goes, I saw in one of your posts earlier that losing ladder games is particularly upsetting for you because they're isolated, meaning if you lose, that's it. You can't go back and fix things. I think that's the wrong way of looking at it though. A single game is only a part of a much larger time investment/learning process that occurs game by game. Why did you lose? What could you have done differently? You apply these things to the next game you play, and the game after that, and the game after that, and eventually you eliminate a particular weakness from your play. Maybe you play that person again in the future and they try to do the same thing, but you beat them. Maybe you forget their name altogether. I rarely remember the name of anyone I play against, mainly because it doesn't matter much to me. I'm playing against the ladder, and every opponent is either an opportunity for skill refinement, or a learning experience. The individuals themselves are irrelevant, and so is losing to them. The purpose of playing is to get better, and losing is part of that process. Some people are better than you.
The strange thing is that absolutely nothing else in my life gets me this upset. Nothing. I'm a very relaxed, easy-going guy in every other facet of my life. If anyone I worked with or went to school with knew this side of me existed, they would be utterly, incredibly shocked. I can't explain why video games (and starcraft, in particular) is such a trigger for me, but it has me on the verge of quitting the game, which I don't want to do because I love it, and the entire E-sports scene in general.
Sounds like you're repressing anger in everyday life and blowing it all out on games.
My suggestion is :
a) Do a martial art (i would suggest boxing/muay thai, these are the best stress relievers)
The strange thing is that absolutely nothing else in my life gets me this upset. Nothing. I'm a very relaxed, easy-going guy in every other facet of my life. If anyone I worked with or went to school with knew this side of me existed, they would be utterly, incredibly shocked. I can't explain why video games (and starcraft, in particular) is such a trigger for me, but it has me on the verge of quitting the game, which I don't want to do because I love it, and the entire E-sports scene in general.
Sounds like you're repressing anger in everyday life and blowing it all out on games.
My suggestion is :
a) Do a martial art (i would suggest boxing/muay thai, these are the best stress relievers)
or
b) Get medical help.
Mmm...that's not it. When things get me angry, I'm very poor at repressing it. It's more that not a lot gets me angry.
On May 09 2013 08:50 Lauriel wrote: Just to be clear, I'm not talking about typing out obscenities after losing a game, punching a pillow, and being in a sour mood for a few minutes.
Wow I max out at about this, and only in the most extreme of circumstances, and thought I was bad...
Anyhow, I think you honestly should stop playing the game. I don't really see an alternative in the short-term. It just isn't worth this kind of rage.
At least switched to just unranked or something, where you won't feel as much pressure.
You have to stop playing sc2 until you fix those issues. You should not even ask yourself the question... (considering the consequences you listed). Rational human beings should not react like that in these kind of situations. Moreover, if what you said is really true, you could truly hurt yourself...or others.
So stop until you can control yourself. (even though you like playing) That's ridiculous lol.
If you were just running around your house screaming and punching things like a two year old, I would say, "Who gives a fuck?" But the fact that you put other people's lives in danger by driving recklessly and are not willing to seek the help you obviously need, or just quit this VIDEO GAME makes really angry. Imagine you run a red light and kill some kid crossing the street. For what? Because some kid on ladder four gated you? Get you priorities in order.
On May 09 2013 12:07 TheSwamp wrote: If you were just running around your house screaming and punching things like a two year old, I would say, "Who gives a fuck?" But the fact that you put other people's lives in danger by driving recklessly and are not willing to seek the help you obviously need, or just quit this VIDEO GAME makes really angry. Imagine you run a red light and kill some kid crossing the street. For what? Because some kid on ladder four gated you? Get you priorities in order.
That's a valid point. I should clarify about the driving.
It's not that I drive recklessly, or take ridiculous risks in the car. It's more that I'm driving angry. I haven't done anything truly reckless though. Driving angry is still dangerous, however.
Is there something that you enjoy and normally makes you feel calm ? Be it music ( it doesn't have be relaxation music ) , a funny youtube-video , a particular type of food you really enjoy or a beverage , or a quick conversation with your girlfriend , something anything ?
You mentioned that it often takes a few losses before you rage, which presents you with an opportunity to intervene and regulate your emotions before they get out of control.
Pay attention to your emotional state as you are playing (or at the end of each game). Learn to identify the physical signs of anger that your body presents (such as increased heart rate, quicker breathing, feeling hot in the face, clenched muscles, repetitive movements, etc.). As you identify these physical manifestations of your increasing rage, tell yourself to take a break and use calming strategies (deep slow breathing, go for a run, etc.). Interrupt the cycle before it gets out of control.
You may also find it helpful to keep a journal. After each game, do a quick write of what happened and how you felt. Not only does doing this force you to take time between losses, but it also forces you to pay attention to your emotional state (and might even be a worthwhile sc2 improvement strategy). The key to this is building the habit of journaling while you are not upset.
The earlier advice about being mindful of precipitating factors (not enough sleep, lack of exercise, skipping meals, family or work stress) is excellent as well. Know that any of these factors increases the likelihood of a rage attack.
There is nothing wrong with feeling angry, and each of us has different triggers. The key is being able to ensure that we are in control of our anger, and we do not let it control us. So we need to be mindful of our emotional state, and take actions that will regulate our emotions before they get out of control.
Wow dude. Just like, don't do those things? It's not difficult. It really really isn't. Unless you're mentally challenged in some way such that you are truly honestly unable to control yourself, in which case you should seek professional help and medication. Otherwise really dude, it's not hard to just like, not punch a wall. When you're about to punch a wall, just don't do that instead.
Edit: I should also say that if you really can't heed this advice, it means that you do in fact need medication of some sort and NOTHING any of us could possibly say to you is going to help.
Quit. You can see that this is an aspect of your life that is negative. Like, if you had to game for a living, I would think of getting professional help to manage the rage. But if it isn't, then forget about it.
SC2 ladder has a really terrible atmosphere. In real life, you rarely meet people with such bad manners and attitude. Overall, it might be the toxicity of the SC2 ladder culture.
/edit
If you insist on continuing to play the game, I can tell you how I manage my frustration, anger etc. I see it as a sort of training for when I do meet people like that in real life.
Also, does your rage occur in single player (try getting all the achievements on insane if you're too good to lose in single player) or games versus AI? If not, it's most likely the interaction with the people rather than the game itself.
Try playing a game without human interaction. I play GTA 4. I beat up some homeless people, cops would chase me, I would massacre the cops in many ways possible. Inventory weapons, SWAT Tank, Combat Helicopter and everything would be hilariously brutal.
I myself rage over games at times but I guess GTA calms me down because there is no pressure in this game at all and the fun gives me good vibes. It might work for you. If not, call a shrink.
The positive thing here is you recognize that you have a problem and that's half the battle. It's clear what needs to be done here. If some recreational activity you are doing in your life affects you so negatively, you just stop doing it. If you have become alcoholic or a smoker, you quit.
If you must stay a gamer, there are plenty of other games where you don't have to complete against anyone that could trigger your rage. Try some of those. Say goodbye to SC2... for you it is clearly not worth it.
On May 09 2013 09:02 Diks wrote: May I ask you; How do you feel when you do win ?
This took me off guard.
Honestly? Relieved, more than anything.
So what I'm reading here is that defeat of any kind is a highly foreign thing to you and that you've internalized that as part of your identity. People probably recognize you as the kind of person who does well and is successful~ When you begin to "prove" to yourself that all those positive things are invalid, it can cause a chain reaction of emotions.
You might need to downscale the importance of starcraft to you somehow. If it's a trivial thing that you don't always have to put 100% effort in when you play, that might help buffer the anger. The suggestion to play with friends could be good too; it's easier to regain a bit of ground than it is to try and re-impress a stranger.
Try playing in team games a few times to see how you react there where you don't have quite as much say in the flow of the game and see how that effects you. I'd predict not nearly as much because you're not as accountable for losses.
I raged pretty hard one time while playing SC2 a year or two ago; Smashed my fist onto the desk. Broke it. That was enough for me to realise how poorly I was acting. Haven't had a rage incident like it before or since. I have however scaled back on the competitive gaming because I know at my age (around yours) I don't have the time to put into it anymore, and it's easier to avoid competition than to change my competitive nature. Now I just watch SC2 for my competitive fix and play mostly single player games.
If you're being honest about this behaviour only coming out in SC2, then avoid SC2. If you have a propensity to act like this in other areas of your life, then you really should look for some professional help.
On May 09 2013 09:10 Lauriel wrote: "... I'm a highly competitive person, which is why I've been successful at...well everything..."
On May 09 2013 09:02 Diks wrote: May I ask you; How do you feel when you do win ?
This took me off guard.
Honestly? Relieved, more than anything.
So what I'm reading here is that defeat of any kind is a highly foreign thing to you and that you've internalized that as part of your identity. People probably recognize you as the kind of person who does well and is successful~ When you begin to "prove" to yourself that all those positive things are invalid, it can cause a chain reaction of emotions.
You might need to downscale the importance of starcraft to you somehow. If it's a trivial thing that you don't always have to put 100% effort in when you play, that might help buffer the anger. The suggestion to play with friends could be good too; it's easier to regain a bit of ground than it is to try and re-impress a stranger.
Try playing in team games a few times to see how you react there where you don't have quite as much say in the flow of the game and see how that effects you. I'd predict not nearly as much because you're not as accountable for losses.
I think this is very close to the truth. Excellent insight - thanks!
Try playing BroodWar competitively instead. It might not solve your anger problems, but it will at leat make you feel silly about getting so mad at SC2.
On May 09 2013 12:29 nstrike wrote: You mentioned that it often takes a few losses before you rage, which presents you with an opportunity to intervene and regulate your emotions before they get out of control.
Pay attention to your emotional state as you are playing (or at the end of each game). Learn to identify the physical signs of anger that your body presents (such as increased heart rate, quicker breathing, feeling hot in the face, clenched muscles, repetitive movements, etc.). As you identify these physical manifestations of your increasing rage, tell yourself to take a break and use calming strategies (deep slow breathing, go for a run, etc.). Interrupt the cycle before it gets out of control.
You may also find it helpful to keep a journal. After each game, do a quick write of what happened and how you felt. Not only does doing this force you to take time between losses, but it also forces you to pay attention to your emotional state (and might even be a worthwhile sc2 improvement strategy). The key to this is building the habit of journaling while you are not upset.
The earlier advice about being mindful of precipitating factors (not enough sleep, lack of exercise, skipping meals, family or work stress) is excellent as well. Know that any of these factors increases the likelihood of a rage attack.
There is nothing wrong with feeling angry, and each of us has different triggers. The key is being able to ensure that we are in control of our anger, and we do not let it control us. So we need to be mindful of our emotional state, and take actions that will regulate our emotions before they get out of control.
On May 09 2013 09:06 Holy_AT wrote: Does every loss trigger this, only ladder games or when you get BMed ? How do you feel when playing ? And what exactly is triggering it ? Just loosing cant be the reason because you will always loose a game when you play a bunch, and I doubt that you explode everyday.
Imagine a situation in real live where you actually felt beeing cheated or humiliated, how did you react there ? Did it also enrage you ?
Not every loss. In fact, I can lose 3-4 in a row and not rage. It's when I go on a losing streak, or lose in a way that I know I shouldn't have.
In real life if I feel I've been cheated, wronged, or humiliated, I redouble my efforts to prove to the other person that they made a mistake, or atone for the mistake that I've made.
Maybe part of the problem is that I have no chance to atone for a loss on the ladder against an opponent. It's something to think about.
Your story feels so familiar to me., I am engaged to a great girl etc, life is pretty grand. (About me: 31, engaged, great job, etc)
But, sometimes, i just can't get over that feeling of being 'cheated', or wronged etc, it feels like some sort of stain on 'me' personally. I've broken 2 monitors (put keyboard into them), countless keyboards, etc.
I stopped playing for a full year, between WOL and HOTS, it has really helped. Taking the time off (no streams, no TL, no reddit), playing some other games etc really helps.
Coming back now, i've found new ways to deal with that feeling. It's still there sometimes, but it doesnt effect me like before (I really cant explain it mate, I think the time off just gave me perspective). Playing other games really helped I think, as did taking a long extended break.
I love the competitive nature of RTS (and Sc2) and dont want to give it up.
Only other suggestion I have for you is set a rule (which I've done now), anymore than 3 losses in a row, I take a break for at least 1 hour. Do anything else (clean up, do washing, chat to your partner, watch what your partner is doing, **** your partner, play with the cat/dog, go to sleep, anything to get your mind off it)
I'm not sure if you actually have a pathological kind of problem cause I'm not a psychologist. But my guess is, since you don't exhibit this anywhere else, and otherwise your life is pretty much a-ok, it's probably not that. So I'm just gonna give you my thoughts on this.
Starcraft is a special kind of competition for a few reasons. 1) You rarely physically SEE your opponent. 2) It is a game of wits and intellect. Yes, half of it is mechanics, but the other half is about out-smarting your opponent. 3) It is a personal game (at least one on one is)
This means when you lose, it is automatically a statement about whose brain is bigger. And when you think about how your opponent must feel, you see this smug expression on his face. He must think he's better than you now. He is probably thinking about how much of a scrub you are. This worthless fuck probably lives in his parent's basement, and now he thinks he's better than you. So, what can you do about it? Nothing. Go re? Nope, because deep down you know he will just beat you again. Tell him how he's a worthless sack of shit, and you are a successful man with a hot girlfriend? He'll just laugh in your face. Now take all that and compound it. You just lost 3 times in a row to fuckers just like that guy. Okay now maybe slamming your fist against the keyboard is just what happens.
If none of this sounds familiar to you, I don't have any advice for you, sorry. This is the reason why I personally get mad "at the game" sometimes. But you know, not really at the game, but at the fictional strawman monster I've built up of my opponent. This is why a lot of people avoid 1v1 I think, because of it's very personal nature. They gravitate to team games, because when you lose, it's the team losing. It's the whole team's fault usually. So you pretty much have two choices. You can stop playing 1v1 and go to 4v4 where nothing makes any sense, it's just a bunch of shit everywhere and you attack, and if you lose, who cares, it's your team's fault. OR you can man the fuck up, and drill these into your head:
Losing a game does not mean your opponent is smarter or better than you. Losing a game does not mean your opponent THINKS he's smarter or better than you. Acknowledge your opponent deserved the win. You are no lesser for meeting defeat, if anything, you are stronger. FFS stop thinking that you've GOTTA END ON A WIN. That will kill you. When you lose three times in a row, stop, watch the replays, figure out why you are sucking so bad, and then go do something else. Relish your victories, and study your defeats. ??? Profit
*Honestly, this is advice I should take myself. Lol
The answer is pretty simple and you already know what it is: grow up. If you drive recklessly as you said because of a video game, you should be in for treatment - no questions asked. Grow up.
The thing I have found is that self-control is the most important thing as I have some issues of my own to deal with (not the same as yours but similar). What I've found that helps (note it doesn't fix my issues but merely makes it easier to deal with) is to have a strict schedule in life. Force yourself to do things that are good for you but maybe you don't want to do. I took up running and hated it and now I love it but the issue is still that waking myself up and being consistent with it has been really hard. However it is a great way to practice my self control and teach my body to do only what I want it to do. Your mind is the same as it needs to be forced into submission. Physical activity can be a really great way to convince yourself how to disregard your thoughts and keep pushing yourself.
Also professional help has been at least semi helpful for me and is not to be entirely disregarded. Although this issue only exists in SC2 it could very well carry over into other parts of your life later on. It might be something to worry about in general because maybe other things don't make you so mad but if something else does make you mad would you be as out of control as you are in the SC2 situation? That is where you start to make irreparable mistakes in relationships that you will regret forever. I think it is worth looking at this not as "I need to learn not to be mad in SC2" but as "I need to learn to cool down when I get angry". I would worry in your case that if something else made you mad you would have a similar problem in that situation.
On a side note: If you are religious that is another good place to teach yourself self control as it can be very difficult to be consistent in that as well.
To those saying just grow up: Not everyone was blessed with a mind that works and functions as it should in all situations. Maybe you don't have this problem but I am sure there are other parts of your life that are screwed up as well so don't judge people and minimalize their issues just because they have the balls to admit their problems and seek help.
I believe OP mentioned something I've also thought about before, mostly the fact that when you lose a game sometimes, it just ends abruptly, the opponent goes away, the map disappears, your positioning, buildings, etc. are just gone in a flash. There is no way to get quick "revenge" on anything, you just queue up again and are thrown into a different situation. Contrast that to say, and FPS like Call of Duty (yeah yeah), where you respawn pretty quickly, and have a chance to kill that opponent again. Usually on the same map under similar circumstances. I think being unable to get some form of revenge can have a very negative effect that builds up, and I'm not sure myself how to control it.
My best friend had a very similar issue... He's gotten a lot better over the last couple years and I really have to agree with qxc's advice. A lot of improvement came from when he started eating a bit better, exorcising again, and generally taking better care of himself (he also became a part time instructor for a Muay Thai school to give credit to those that recommended a martial art, but he was doing better and just exorcising before he started training again). He still gets pissed at times but not to a blind rage point.
Out of curiosity he would describe the episodes as things actually turning red, do you notice any changes when you go into a rage?
I have experienced similar rage issues. Not to the degree that you're experiencing them, but I did have one moment where I lost control of my actions. I was on a losing streak and after my 12th loss, I slammed my monitor against the wall, threw my headphones down and walked outside. It was winter, so it was pretty cold out...I ended up staying outside for 30 minutes before the cold was too much. This was at 2:30am, so I frightened my fiance while she was asleep. I've also broken a keyboard, and threw a book into a door (ironically, my WoL poster is covering the hole, lol). I don't do that anymore, and I'll talk about what I did to help make changes.
8 hours of sleep was very important to me. Often, I would find that when I would play in a sleep deprived state that my game suffered immensely, and my emotions were more errant. I refuse to play SC2 if I am not well rested.
I only play ranked when I feel like I have the time to really play, and improve. I found that if I hopped on the ladder with the mentality of "I don't want to get better, I just want the points." and I would lose, and get beyond angry. I would just start to cheese and do stupid, impatient shit in an attempt to get more points. Being able to mentally separate my own feeling of self worth and ladder points was essential in getting me to calm down.
Being OK with ending a ladder session on a loss was also a big step for me. My old mentality was "I'm not going to bed until I get 1 more win" which lead to all sorts of problems.
I felt a lot of rage during loses because I would judge myself quite harshly. I would draw an equivalence between my in-game performance and my own intelligence. In this game, there are no teammates to blame...no other person to shove a loss on to. If you lose, it's all on you. I've had to realize that losing doesn't make me stupid, or dumb, or any of the other things I convinced myself that I was. WhiteRa's "More gg, more skill" helped me a lot here. Also, watching professionals lose helped me be OK with my own losses. Sometimes I would tune into a stream and watch a grand master lose to the same thing I just lost too and I would feel much better about my loss.
I have learned that taking a 1-2 minute break between each game (win or loss) is a good way to let your mind calm down. Constantly playing SC2, with no breaks, is similar to constantly bench pressing with no breaks. Would you ever lift weights without stopping? No! You take breaks between your sets to let your muscles recover. Do the same thing for your brain with SC2. I fill those 1-2 minute breaks with different activities depending on how I feel. If I had a great win, I will watch the replay and re-live my glory. If I lose to something really aggravating (like cheese), I will do push ups or sit ups or some physical exercise. If it was a normal-ish game, I will usually browse reddit for a bit, or maybe watch a pro play.
My last piece of advice is to not treat the ladder like a fierce place for competition. When I read that, I got an image in my head of 2 gladiators in the colosseum circling each other, prepared to dual to the death. I use the Find Match button as not a way to compete, but a way to improve my own mechanics and game play/knowledge.
You have real anger problems if you can't control yourself with sc. Don't blame the game though. It might be a safe way to deal with issues. Most of uncontrolled mental illness comes down to physical health, awareness, and limitation. You need to understand why you can accept being so angry. And be aware when it happens.
Don't quit. Why do I say this? A) Your anger means you are passionate about StarCraft II. B) If you were willing to stop playing, you wouldn't be on TL right now. You clearly want to play, and da StarCraftz give you da feelz ^_^ That's AWESOME; never forget that :D
I have very similar problems. I have yet to do long-lasting damage to myself or my environment AFAIK (I do have a trapped nerve in my right hand that acts up from time to time, but IDK if that happened with rage; also, I broke a headset once when I was really sleep-deprived and angry). Here are my recommendations, based on what does and doesn't work for me:
1) Maintaining calm. Any time you feel anger setting on after a loss, TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF ANYTHING THEY ARE TOUCHING (this is to avoid physical damage to both gear and hands). Bow your head. Close your eyes. Breathe slowly and deeply. It's OK to be angry. Breathing is the best way to be angry.
2) Do not click "Find Match" until you are over the loss. This is much easier said than done, but if you can train yourself not to ladder angry, life becomes much easier and you slowly make your way towards being OK with a loss. Tilting is never good for your state of mind or your game.
3) Think about the specific error that cost you the game. You don't have to watch the replay. It's hard as hell to watch the replay when you're this affected by a loss. But remember that larger feeling of general failure you feel with a loss? When you get down to specifics, you realize it wasn't a general failure, but a very small and palpable slip. Now you're problem-solving, not failing. This is the transition that many pro players really have down. A great example is CatZ, who will almost always follow up a loss with a statement of what he did wrong, like, "I fucked up the transition" or "I didn't have enough [unit]" or something like that.
4) I strongly suggest some kind of therapy. I recommend therapy for anyone with a pulse, but especially when you seem to have a good understanding and foundation for what you want and where you want to be with this specific aspect of your life, I think a little therapy goes a long way to getting you in the right place, especially with StarCraft. Just talking to a professional a couple times a month can work wonders.
5) is a quote from the esteemed Zngel, a.k.a. Day[9]: "Do NOT forget to HAVE FUN! Laddering is SUPER fun, but if you're on a losing streak and feeling frustrated, don't force 1v1ing! Go play some 4v4s or some UMS. There's a billion different ways to play SC2, all of which are fun in completely different ways. As a community, we tend to focus on 1v1 (and competitive tournament play as observers!) but there's SO MUCH FUN TO BE HAD ACTUALLY IM GOING TO GO PLAY 2V2 RIGHT NOW [source]"
That's my $0.02. Don't give up! StarCraft II is awesome, and it's awesome that you want to play it! Best of luck :D
Does your day job have the directness, in terms of competition, that a game of SC2 has? Like you intrinsically feel that failures are directly or indirectly caused by your competitors?
Does it feel like your opponent is mocking you when you lose to him (in sc2)?
On May 09 2013 13:08 FunkyLich wrote: I'm not sure if you actually have a pathological kind of problem cause I'm not a psychologist. But my guess is, since you don't exhibit this anywhere else, and otherwise your life is pretty much a-ok, it's probably not that. So I'm just gonna give you my thoughts on this.
Starcraft is a special kind of competition for a few reasons. 1) You rarely physically SEE your opponent. 2) It is a game of wits and intellect. Yes, half of it is mechanics, but the other half is about out-smarting your opponent. 3) It is a personal game (at least one on one is)
This means when you lose, it is automatically a statement about whose brain is bigger. And when you think about how your opponent must feel, you see this smug expression on his face. He must think he's better than you now. He is probably thinking about how much of a scrub you are. This worthless fuck probably lives in his parent's basement, and now he thinks he's better than you. So, what can you do about it? Nothing. Go re? Nope, because deep down you know he will just beat you again. Tell him how he's a worthless sack of shit, and you are a successful man with a hot girlfriend? He'll just laugh in your face. Now take all that and compound it. You just lost 3 times in a row to fuckers just like that guy. Okay now maybe slamming your fist against the keyboard is just what happens.
If none of this sounds familiar to you, I don't have any advice for you, sorry. This is the reason why I personally get mad "at the game" sometimes. But you know, not really at the game, but at the fictional strawman monster I've built up of my opponent. This is why a lot of people avoid 1v1 I think, because of it's very personal nature. They gravitate to team games, because when you lose, it's the team losing. It's the whole team's fault usually. So you pretty much have two choices. You can stop playing 1v1 and go to 4v4 where nothing makes any sense, it's just a bunch of shit everywhere and you attack, and if you lose, who cares, it's your team's fault. OR you can man the fuck up, and drill these into your head:
Losing a game does not mean your opponent is smarter or better than you. Losing a game does not mean your opponent THINKS he's smarter or better than you. Acknowledge your opponent deserved the win. You are no lesser for meeting defeat, if anything, you are stronger. FFS stop thinking that you've GOTTA END ON A WIN. That will kill you. When you lose three times in a row, stop, watch the replays, figure out why you are sucking so bad, and then go do something else. Relish your victories, and study your defeats. ??? Profit
*Honestly, this is advice I should take myself. Lol
I have felt this exact same way before, regularly. The bolded section in particular really speaks to me. Excellent advice. I'll try to keep that in mind, because losing in SC2 does feel much more like a measure of success as a human than success at a game. Ironically, I never think to myself "I'm just a better, smarter, more successful person than that guy I just beat," but I imagine some people thinking that way when they beat me.
On May 09 2013 13:09 Pheon wrote: The answer is pretty simple and you already know what it is: grow up. If you drive recklessly as you said because of a video game, you should be in for treatment - no questions asked. Grow up.
I posted earlier that the "reckless" driving is actually just angry driving. I should have been more clear in the OP.
On May 09 2013 13:19 Shantastic wrote: Don't quit. Why do I say this? A) Your anger means you are passionate about StarCraft II. B) If you were willing to stop playing, you wouldn't be on TL right now. You clearly want to play, and da StarCraftz give you da feelz ^_^ That's AWESOME; never forget that :D
I have very similar problems. I have yet to do long-lasting damage to myself or my environment AFAIK (I do have a trapped nerve in my right hand that acts up from time to time, but IDK if that happened with rage; also, I broke a headset once when I was really sleep-deprived and angry). Here are my recommendations, based on what does and doesn't work for me:
1) Maintaining calm. Any time you feel anger setting on after a loss, TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF ANYTHING THEY ARE TOUCHING (this is to avoid physical damage to both gear and hands). Bow your head. Close your eyes. Breathe slowly and deeply. It's OK to be angry. Breathing is the best way to be angry.
2) Do not click "Find Match" until you are over the loss. This is much easier said than done, but if you can train yourself not to ladder angry, life becomes much easier and you slowly make your way towards being OK with a loss. Tilting is never good for your state of mind or your game.
3) Think about the specific error that cost you the game. You don't have to watch the replay. It's hard as hell to watch the replay when you're this affected by a loss. But remember that larger feeling of general failure you feel with a loss? When you get down to specifics, you realize it wasn't a general failure, but a very small and palpable slip. Now you're problem-solving, not failing. This is the transition that many pro players really have down. A great example is CatZ, who will almost always follow up a loss with a statement of what he did wrong, like, "I fucked up the transition" or "I didn't have enough [unit]" or something like that.
4) I strongly suggest some kind of therapy. I recommend therapy for anyone with a pulse, but especially when you seem to have a good understanding and foundation for what you want and where you want to be with this specific aspect of your life, I think a little therapy goes a long way to getting you in the right place, especially with StarCraft. Just talking to a professional a couple times a month can work wonders.
5) is a quote from the esteemed Zngel, a.k.a. Day[9]: "Do NOT forget to HAVE FUN! Laddering is SUPER fun, but if you're on a losing streak and feeling frustrated, don't force 1v1ing! Go play some 4v4s or some UMS. There's a billion different ways to play SC2, all of which are fun in completely different ways. As a community, we tend to focus on 1v1 (and competitive tournament play as observers!) but there's SO MUCH FUN TO BE HAD ACTUALLY IM GOING TO GO PLAY 2V2 RIGHT NOW [source]"
That's my $0.02. Don't give up! StarCraft II is awesome, and it's awesome that you want to play it! Best of luck :D
Also a really excellent viewpoint. A lot of this is really worth taking to heart. Thanks.
I also want to thank everyone for their input. I can't quote and respond to everyone, but I really appreciate people taking the time to post. Even if I don't respond directly, at least know that I did read your post and gave it some thought.
I think you need a routine. After every loss, do pushups. Stretch. (body and hands/wrists). Breath deeply. Walk around for 1 minute. Get some water/tea/coffee.
Seriously: get a yoga mat and do stretches. If you lose 3 games in a row, get that mat out. Do some calisthenics. It'll help you play better, is something you should be doing anyway, and will prevent the rage.
I would suggest taking a break from the game. Do something else that is not competitive.* I understand that you enjoy it, but if it is having a detrimental impact on numerous aspects of your life, then you should cut it out.
* Actually, you can still do competitive things ... chess, music competitions, a sport, etc.
On May 09 2013 12:07 TheSwamp wrote: If you were just running around your house screaming and punching things like a two year old, I would say, "Who gives a fuck?" But the fact that you put other people's lives in danger by driving recklessly and are not willing to seek the help you obviously need, or just quit this VIDEO GAME makes really angry. Imagine you run a red light and kill some kid crossing the street. For what? Because some kid on ladder four gated you? Get you priorities in order.
That's a valid point. I should clarify about the driving.
It's not that I drive recklessly, or take ridiculous risks in the car. It's more that I'm driving angry. I haven't done anything truly reckless though. Driving angry is still dangerous, however.
It really is and it would be terrible for you to ruin your life because of a game.
On May 09 2013 13:39 babylon wrote: I would suggest taking a break from the game. Do something else that is not competitive.* I understand that you enjoy it, but if it is having a detrimental impact on numerous aspects of your life, then you should cut it out.
* Actually, you can still do competitive things ... chess, music competitions, a sport, etc.
I actually am a professional musician and teacher in my real life, believe it or not.
I guess everyone is different. From my point of view, you seem to be living an amazing life, so if Sc2 is causing such rage, I'd just trash it and do something else. I also find it interesting that you could produce such rage under your circumstances. Sc2 might just be that one thing in the world that does this to you.
I used to suffer with this almost to but not quite the same extent. I would go 13-0 one day, whatever I expected to win 100% of my games. Lose 3 in a row (and if it was cheese it added even more anger) I would slam my headset keyboard mouse throw my phone and one day uninstalled the game and removed anything starcraft related from my room.
I eventually boiled it down to a specific thing, it doesn't matter how good I am at the game or my success in life, I take my wins and losses to heart and use my W:L as the thing to define me... for the day at least. Next morning I would be happy )) or at least until I broke even in games.
It's a pride issue at least for me. When I first started I was in bronze and wanted to go pro after watching a video, and got to masters a couple months later. with that rate I expected to be GM and on a team within a year because I thought I was a prodigy and didn't know that low-mid masters is meaningless. But before I knew this and even after I knew it I thought I was entitled to winning ("all these players are fucking trash I cant believe I fucking lost to that piece of shit PLAYER *slam slam*").
It took a lot of conditioning over the past almost 2 years to get over losing, I'll still rage in games that I knew I should have won but fucked up and will mostly blame myself and call myself shit then beat a top masters korean and be happy, but overall I'm much more happy.
Essentially what I had to force myself to remind myself subconciously is that I'm practicing, and I should expect and hope to lose games so I can improve. This worked a lot especially when I recently switched to Terran for a week. I would play a game, lose, know what I need to improve or do and just do it, and I'd win the next game. a week of this and I was already mid masters as a new race simply because I did not rage when I lost and took every loss as a way to find the secret to winning.
I have a fever and am delirious so I hope my post makes sense and isnt' weird as fuck.... what year is this
I think the difference for this guy is simple...when you 'lose' in real life, it's less likely to be completely undeservingly so. More specifically feel that way anyways.
In a game there is going to be times you lose and it just feels disgusting. SC2 in specific with the whole terrible terrible damage ideal can really feel this way. Playing as Zerg I can't tell you how many recent times I've run into a widow mine randomly on the map (as in not even in a battle) and subsequently was in a really bad spot. Or better yet missed a proxy 2 rax by a fraction of space only to lose because I didn't see it in time.
The key is to not let yourself fly off the handle in those moments where the game just feels disgusting. What i've found helps is to just leave the game (type GG if I can convince myself to) and look at the replay for a few minutes and figure out exactly where I went wrong. Even if I don't have some ahah moment in doing it, it at least gives me time to cool down.
That or turn on a stream and watch someone else suffer and you'll feel better (it's just a sad but true human fact).
Either way the key is to remove yourself from the situation for a moment so you can get some perspective and recoup your head.
Whether or not you try to overcome it by continuing sc2, please do yourself and those around you a favor and try to make sure your mind is clear before you do things like drive. The whole speeding and angry driving thing really scares me. Just try to think of those around you first and foremost. I don`t know the answer to your problem and I am not going to say just grow up (because it seems your issue is complicated), but I will say don`t let some sort of tragedy happen before you start to change.
On May 09 2013 13:26 Lauriel wrote: I have felt this exact same way before, regularly. The bolded section in particular really speaks to me. Excellent advice. I'll try to keep that in mind, because losing in SC2 does feel much more like a measure of success as a human than success at a game. Ironically, I never think to myself "I'm just a better, smarter, more successful person than that guy I just beat," but I imagine some people thinking that way when they beat me.
Actually yes, the same holds for me. If I beat someone, I am not even remotely thinking that I am smarter or better than them. I'm just happy I won, and I'm willing to bet that is how most people take their wins.
On May 09 2013 13:57 mango_destroyer wrote: Whether or not you try to overcome it by continuing sc2, please do yourself and those around you a favor and try to make sure your mind is clear before you do things like drive. The whole speeding and angry driving thing really scares me. Just try to think of those around you first and foremost. I don`t know the answer to your problem and I am not going to say just grow up (because it seems your issue is complicated), but I will say don`t let some sort of tragedy happen before you start to change.
think about your girlfriend having to live without you and the families of those who you could possibly hurt or kill while driving, works for me. Depressing but it gives you empathy and changes your actions.
The best way to deal with it is intellectualization. Cognitive behavioral therapy is about recognizing triggers which should be obvious when you queue up for ladder. You just have to recognize what you're angry about. Balance? Yourself? Adrenaline rush? All of the above? Just have a pillow ready to lay waste on. You can also achieve sublimation, meaning you channel that passion toward getting better. The biggest impediment to getting better is shame or apathy. Watch your replays, deal with the pain, and let that motivate you to avoid those situations again. Having trouble learning? Ask for help, watch pros play and see how they deal with it. Also you need acceptance that even the best players in the world may very well have a 50% win rate (which doesn't mean alternating wins and losses, flip a coin and heads and tails happen in streaks). It's part of accepting defeat not as an affront to your character or skills, but as a testament to the competitiveness of this game.
You're deciding to partake in one of the hardest things to do as a human being, and stressing your attention and motor skills to the max, so just find a predetermined way to release that stress, instead of doing detrimental things like damaging yourself and your keyboard. Starcraft is a game of personal growth, once you start making comparisons to others or excuses, you'll compromise your ability to grow. Accept that anger as a part of your personality, only your prefrontal cortex (executive) can subjugate the limbic system (emotional state), by making it part of the "plan."
Accepting failure is probably the biggest obstacle and subsequently your trigger, at least it was for me.
On May 09 2013 08:58 Senshin wrote: lol, the topic title let me think of somebody else........
I think I know who we're referring to here
If you can laugh @ this, just remember a certain person everytime you play, and then smile. If he doesn't help, I recommend watching Avilo. His signature chant is F***Protoss
This post got me musing, I also experience some rage when I lose, though fortunately it doesn't usually manifest physically, I just get angry at myself and insta hit find match, even if it's past the time I set for myself to stop playing...
Back when I played WoW and there was a ton of raging on the forums (actually, probably still is), occasionally the one particular dev who posted pretty regularly was asked how he could stand it. The response was thought provoking - something along the lines of: these people love the game and care about it so much that it evokes such intense emotion when they see something they think is wrong with the game, it just so happens that emotion is manifest in awful forum flames.
I think it's a parallel issue with Starcraft. Just as much as I love the game, I love the community around it, the fact that we have such an awesome, skillful esport, with a civilized forum full of people it's fun to talk about the game with, and competitions that feature (occasionally) downright sublime play. I guess when I make stupid mistakes and lose, I get angry at myself because I feel on a subconscious level like I'm not living up to this grandiose image in my head of what the perfect world of Starcraft should be. It's frustrating to go from watching Polt smash top zergs to playing TvZ yourself and losing terribly to simple run-bys.
As far as correcting rage...I think it's all a matter of perspective. For example, if a friend of yours asked for coaching, and you watched a replay of his in which he made some minor errors that led to a loss, would you scream in anger at him? No, you'd probably encourage him by saying that it was a error anyone could have made, and it's easy to fix, and if you just fix those few errors you would have definitely won. So why not do the same to yourself? There's no need to hold yourself to an overly high standard; you're not Flash so you shouldn't expect to be able to play like him.
And, something I should probably do myself more often, is force yourself to watch the replay. If you're bad at public speaking, I've heard that they make you practice into a tape recorder and listen to yourself, so you can face your fears and correct the mistakes, same concept here. If that's too much, at least watch a replay of you completely owning someone, now that's a good feeling, and chances are you can still spot some mistakes to correct next time.
I'm thinking along the lines of the samurai code - throughout history, I don't think it's possible to list a warrior caste ahead of the samurai when it comes to legendary bravery. But they don't just go, "hey, I'm not going to chicken out" and hope for the best. If you haven't seen Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai, do yourself a big, big favor and watch it, but only because it's bad ass, stars Forest Whitaker, and has a lot of cool Hagakure quotes. This one in particular, however, is relevant to what I propose:
The Way of the Samurai is found in death. Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day, when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears, and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one's master. And every day, without fail, one should consider himself as dead. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai.
I'd say you should, rather than hope you can control yourself, begin your gaming session by imagining getting cheesed in all the most lame ways, and losing in the most humiliating fashion - while everyone that matters to you is watching. The fact is, you're going to lose ~50% of your games unless you're way, way up on the ladder, and randomness assures that you will lose in streaks of varying length. Losing, like a samurai's death, is inevitable, but if you approach it the way a samurai would, you might find an alternative to the mantra of "must remain in control" that yields better results.
I always found physical activities, competitive or not, to drain away all the anger and stress. So if you want something competitive but don't want to rage, try something like tennis or basketball or soccer and some other physically demanding sport (not golf). I read somewhere that exercises creates chemicals in your body that relieve stress so i highly recommend it. You can also go for a jog if you don't want to learn a sport.
I know your game is SC2 but maybe you should play SC1 on iccup for a while. First, you are going to lose tons of games so you will be forced to face that. Second, in sc1 as soon as you leave the game you are in the same chat room as your opponent and many other people where you can talk about your lose and understand what happened rather then be annoyed at the piece of shit who just beat you. The SC2 bnet community is much harder to talk with post games for review but maybe playing on iccup will help you vent out anger and learn how think as a better player when in the face of losing. Just an of color suggestion in the face of many good ones from other posters.
Personally, no other game has made me rage like SC2 although I experience gamer rage occasionally. (who hasn't?)
I got up to silver league and then said to myself it just isn't worth it. I like watching now because I know the skill that these guys have. I seriously disagree with people who say you should continue playing because you are passionate. You are going to hurt yourself and the ones you love with your rage. You will never be a huge superstar, the pros are all super cold blooded people who rarely if ever get angry when they lose. QXC is an exception, although he isn't mad most of the time and has a good work ethic.
Play DOTA2 or a single player game or WoW, and watch and be a passionate FAN of the game is my advice. Some people aren't wired for this. Doesn't make you a bad person, I can't play basketball for being too short and I have accepted that.
But everyone has posted good advice on keeping cool and you should follow that if you need too keep going.
try smokin weed. when you are stoned try to analyze why you rage when you lose and what you can do to prevent the rage.. try smokin before a game to play super casual. dont worry about winning or losing.. its about entertainment.
On May 09 2013 14:27 BisuDagger wrote: I know your game is SC2 but maybe you should play SC1 on iccup for a while. First, you are going to lose tons of games so you will be forced to face that. Second, in sc1 as soon as you leave the game you are in the same chat room as your opponent and many other people where you can talk about your lose and understand what happened rather then be annoyed at the piece of shit who just beat you. The SC2 bnet community is much harder to talk with post games for review but maybe playing on iccup will help you vent out anger and learn how think as a better player when in the face of losing. Just an of color suggestion in the face of many good ones from other posters.
Lauriel, I have to agree with BisuDagger. Talking about it makes a huge difference (even if you rage).
Personally, I had a few friends who raged a lot (towards ladder and towards me) but playing against them more and more actually helped them. You should find a few practice partners (maybe join a team/clan). I really recommend practice 1vs1 (against partners).
On May 09 2013 14:32 LarJarsE wrote: try smokin weed. when you are stoned try to analyze why you rage when you lose and what you can do to prevent the rage.. try smokin before a game to play super casual. dont worry about winning or losing.. its about entertainment.
haha, I remember the one time I played after I smoked weed, everything was so funny. for example, I'd try to hellion harass zerg, be staring at his natural for a few seconds wondering where my hellions were before realizing I never rallied the factory and they were just piling up in my main. Now normally I'd be pissed at a mistake like that, but at the time I just thought it was the absolute funniest thing in the world. I also started doing the whole Fantasy gg thing, hanging in the game for longer b/c I couldn't tell when I had lost. So yeah, less rage that way, though not really an option if your work/spouse is against it obviously.
I got a steelseries 6gv2, and after smashing after raging a million times, it still works. Besides that, I recommend taking notes on your losses. Helps me remember not to lose to stupid things and therefore rage less. Also you will improve quite a bit.
are you angry at him or at yourself or at the game? I think it's an important question, sometimes I hit my table because I know I could have won but messed up somewhere. Sometimes I just bm the opponent because in TvP, you have to do all the work and protoss just need to move out in a deathball and suddenly it is gg. sometimes I bm because the opponent cheesed and really rude etc
From a psychology POV, this sounds like classic displacement. Certain things in your life aren't going quite right, but you have convinced yourself that you are really happy with everything and therefore the outlet that has presented itself for you to express your anger is in losing video games. You should break up with your girlfriend and quit your job. Then you might find that losing in starcraft is not a concern any more.
Please don't actually do that last part :X In all seriousness though, things probably aren't as hunky-dory as you're letting on. If they really are, and starcraft is such a huge problem, then pick up a different hobby
Once you become experienced with raging you will either continue to rage (doesnt help) or look for new ways of thinking.
Story:
I was overtaking a car on a regular 2-way road. The person I was overtaking decided "you are not overtaking me', and accelerated while I was overtaking him. My competitive spirit said, 'no your not gunna be a bully douche with me', and I accelerated, he accelerated, I accelerated and over-took him. At this stage we were over the speed limit, and he ended up following me to my dad's work (where I was going) - usually I would just rock up to a police station and say 'lets sort this out here' (and watch them run - stupid bully). Anyway, I get out of my car and he stops his car , and starts yelling abuse, I just stand there arms folded looking at him calmly. My dad walks out and he 'retreats'. I couldnt believe he had his wife and BABY in the car! he put his wife and baby at risk just because he was overtaken! Even though I 'won' , the feelings of the experience were not comfortable and something I wouldnt put myself through again. I will just let the idiot 'win' , cos I know Im the real winner.
On May 09 2013 14:44 ETisME wrote: are you angry at him or at yourself or at the game? I think it's an important question, sometimes I hit my table because I know I could have won but messed up somewhere. Sometimes I just bm the opponent because in TvP, you have to do all the work and protoss just need to move out in a deathball and suddenly it is gg. sometimes I bm because the opponent cheesed and really rude etc
band aid answer - you may want to look into breathing exercises after each game/before starting the next game. real answer - probably need to work on a more realistic expectation of what you are capable of when you play [i.e. just because i know how to and can beat x doesnt mean im going to every time] also look into finding some way to remind yourself that how the game turns out doesnt reflect on who you are as a person at all
On May 09 2013 14:57 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: band aid answer - you may want to look into breathing exercises after each game/before starting the next game. real answer - probably need to work on a more realistic expectation of what you are capable of when you play [i.e. just because i know how to and can beat x doesnt mean im going to every time] also look into finding some way to remind yourself that how the game turns out doesnt reflect on who you are as a person at all
This is essentially what made me rage 95% of the time.
I have an answer for you. Instead of letting the rage build up inside you until you explode like a lunatic that needs to be locked in a padded room, gradually let out the rage over a long period of time.
As you are gaming, the second anything annoying and rage-inducing happens, like a lost scv, mis-rally, supply block, etc, start letting out a low, steady scream, like a whisper scream, gradually increasing in intensity as the bad things build up.... ultimately culminating on the loss of your entire army and the loss of the game. During longer macro games, the scream will be very drawn out and will increase at a slow pace. During cheeses and 1 base allins, the scream will increase in intensity very rapidly. During these short games, it is important to break up the intense screams with short, few second pauses as to not overdo it. You can count these pauses in your head to aid you.
For Example: AHHH (1..2..3) AHHH (1..2..3) AHHH
This method has been proven to produce extremely fast and effective relief of Starcraft ladder rage. If screaming method is too loud to be useful to you, the screams can be replaced with whimpers.
For reference, here is a video displaying this method used. It shows one individual emitting controlled screams, in contrast to the other who has no control over them, and is thus raging and losing control of themselves.
On May 09 2013 14:14 idkfa wrote: I'm thinking along the lines of the samurai code - throughout history, I don't think it's possible to list a warrior caste ahead of the samurai when it comes to legendary bravery. But they don't just go, "hey, I'm not going to chicken out" and hope for the best. If you haven't seen Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai, do yourself a big, big favor and watch it, but only because it's bad ass, stars Forest Whitaker, and has a lot of cool Hagakure quotes. This one in particular, however, is relevant to what I propose:
The Way of the Samurai is found in death. Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day, when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears, and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one's master. And every day, without fail, one should consider himself as dead. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai.
I'd say you should, rather than hope you can control yourself, begin your gaming session by imagining getting cheesed in all the most lame ways, and losing in the most humiliating fashion - while everyone that matters to you is watching. The fact is, you're going to lose ~50% of your games unless you're way, way up on the ladder, and randomness assures that you will lose in streaks of varying length. Losing, like a samurai's death, is inevitable, but if you approach it the way a samurai would, you might find an alternative to the mantra of "must remain in control" that yields better results.
This is really helpful. I think part of my issue is when I sit down to practice, I imagine what I'm going to do and how I'm going to execute a strategy and improve.
Then a cheese comes, I die in 5 minutes, and I'm super frustrated.
Mentally preparing for such a thing ahead of time sounds like a really good way to not even let the rage ball rolling.
By the way, I'm actually kind of touched by how many sincere, thoughtful answers there are here, as well as all the personal accounts of examples of this sort of thing in the lives of others, or strategies to use to mitigate the frustration.
Just a few things to address to those who have mentioned them (most things have been mentioned more than once, by this point).
1. To those who say "stop holding yourself to a higher standard - you aren't good and you aren't going pro," let me be the first to tell you that I know that. I never, not even once, dreamed of becoming a pro gamer, or trying to be good enough to play at that level. The competitive spirit that makes me want to play is all personal, and not at all for any sort of professional game. I'm quite happy with my career choice and prospects.
2. I don't do drugs, but doing something to relax or clear my head before playing is probably an excellent idea. So much of SC2 is mental that if you go into a game without a clear state of mind, you've probably already lost. In fact, I can remember multiple games where I was still fuming about the previous loss, forgot something simple, and before I knew it, one loss cost me 2 games instead of one, which just made me angrier.
3. A lot of people have said this, and I never thought about it before, but even just saying "gg" after a particularly frustrating loss is a positive step towards maintaining civility and continuing to act like a human being instead of a frothing moron. I'll have to remind myself to do that, rather than just leaving the game.
4. When I'm ready (not immediately), I need to go back and watch replays with a pad of paper and physically write down the reason I lost so that I can feel as though even the losses are contributing to overall improvement. I don't do enough of that (read: any of that).
Just responding to the OP, have you tried getting some coaching and see what you level you are at mechanically, and where you are lacking in strategy? Once you have an understanding of your OWN skill sets and an understanding of what you need to improve, you can look at the game more objectively. Losing shouldn't be frustrating, it should just be a highlight of what you can improve upon.
Perhaps after each loss, ask yourself why you lose and DO NOT say because I played bad. No matter how determined you are to just leave it as 'played bad', try to see what exactly cost you the game. Eg, did you react slow/misclick to a drop? did you mismicro and pulled an unit back when you shouldn't have? did you expand too late/early? These are the things that you can objectively improve upon in future games.
Personally, when I lose a game where I don't understand HOW I lost makes me frustrated, but, if I can see the mistakes that cost me the game I am more than glad to have experienced the loss.
Not that you're a newb at all; I find watching that one ep occasionally is a good way to remind myself about playing Starcraft for fun. As is watching any of Day9's Funday Mondays, and the Carbot animated episodes. It's good to maintain a good sense of humor, and doubly so when you lose. And as is often pointed out, losing is actually the easiest way to learn and improve, if you can step back and develop a good sense of identifying where exactly was the turning point and how you can prevent it later. (Day9 has a number of eps about improvement processes as well: 312419424426) Given the way matchmaking functions, you have to accept that you're going to lose, and lose a lot, no matter how good you become, because the game will keep upping the stakes for you. Not handling that will ruin you.
One particular thing mentioned in that ep that's helpful for me is to shoot the breeze with other people who also play the game if you can. It's a good way to let off steam or brag about what you're doing, and it's easier to be self-deprecating and laugh off your mistakes when you're replaying those games to others. The act of explaining tends to make you think more objectively about what you're discussing. You can use rubber ducking if you have to and have a rubber duck (or some other hopefully indestructible standin) to rage to or explain what you did wrong next to your computer.
Finally, if you're mad about a loss, just take a break on the spot and step away from the computer until you calm down, maybe in some comfy chair you have nearby for this exact cooldown purpose so you can associate plopping down in that chair with break time. It's all fine and dandy to analyze your losses for notes, but you can't do that if you're going to punch a hole in your screen the next time you see a baneling. Here's a quick relaxation trick I learned from Tai Chi: rub your hands together rapidly to warm up your palms, look down, then (gently!) press your palms to your closed eyes and hold them there while you take a deep breath and relax your face and body, especially your shoulders. Removing your physical tension is surprisingly helpful in removing your mental tension.
I was just reading your thread and it reminded me of some Day9 advice that helped get better at life and at the game.
1) All that rage is just chemicals in your brain. Take deep breaths and do something physical (exercise, jumping up and down, whatever) until those chemicals wear out. 2) Rewatch the game and breakdown why you lost. Sometimes, the rage comes from thinking you've done everything right, when you haven't really understood why you lost. 3) Writing helps. Write down what you can do better. 4) There will always be another game. Even if you lose, there is always be a next time. 5) Objectify the learning, not the victory. When learning becomes the primary objective, you will find that victory will follow. 6) Celebrate your victories and deliberate your losses. If you win celebrate it! My guess is that you don't feel the same level of emotion when you win. Celebrate your victories more! feel happier and you will find that you will win more by simply being more open to opportunity (positive mindset) 7) When you start limiting the ways that you can improve (i can only hold "x" build this way, or i did everything "right" and it still didn't work), stop playing. That's your mind getting more negative. 8) Control the number of games you play b4 each break. I play 3 games so that if i go on a losing streak, i don't feel too bad. if i win, i feel great.
I would also say that getting cheesed happens daily. Just remember it's a different way of playing the same game.
On May 09 2013 16:44 Xapti wrote: More Questions for Lauriel:
Did you play sports/competitive-sports much? (particularly single-player ones) What about when you were younger?
Do you get angry playing other games? have you tried other games? (e.g. Mario Kart, Halo, Street Fighter, SC2 custom games, Diablo, LoL/DotA)
What is your approximate skill level?
Do you get just as angry if you lose to a computer AI?
1. I played baseball and basketball through middle school, and took Jujitsu up to 2nd degree black belt as well, but gave up most of that stuff in favor of music in high school. Considering it's my career now, I feel I made the right choice. I am a *passionate* sports fan though. I love baseball, american football, college basketball, and of course, Starcraft.
2. I get annoyed playing other games, but nothing major. I was a pretty respectable Magic: The Gathering player for a number of years, but never once got this frustrated when I lost back then. I play WoW (but just for raiding funsies), and occasionally LoL, though I never really put much time into it as I prefer 1v1 play rather than team oriented, at least when it comes to games. Diablo 3 I play as well, though rarely these days. I also like single player adventure or RPG style games, like Uncharted, Final Fantasies, and various other games of that ilk, as well as sports games.
3. I'm a low-mid Masters player, depending on which direction I'm streaking.
4. Nope, not even close.
5. I play Protoss, so something of a mixed opportunist. I practically always play macro games against Terran, tend to do a variety of 1 base play versus protoss, and do a variety of builds that transition into losing immediately against zerg.
My first thought would be to ask yourself: Do I get upset in other competitive situations/sports when I loose, if the answer is yes then you are going to have a much harder time trying to deal with this problem. If it is just in starcraft 2 then it is probably just a question of perspective.
I would suggest you start approaching your games from more of an improvement perspective rather than a needing to win perspective. Remember, many Code S players have win-rates around 60% meaning that they loose up to 4 games out of every 10. Loosing is actually a pretty normal part of starcraft, try to laugh at yourself and shrug it off. Keep thinking about the very best players loosing and you might not feel so bad.
The other thing is to avoid re-enforcing your own behavior. If you rage and then go straight into another game and then loose again, not only will get more mad, but you will also begin to condition yourself to be angry every time you loose. This is a vicious cycle. If you loose and get mad, take a break, go for a run or jump up and down. I'm pretty sure I have read that the neural pathways associated with anger tend to stay activated for a while after being turned up, this means that you actually need 20-30 minutes sometimes to cool off. Make sure you watch the replay before you play again, think about where you went wrong and in the next game, simply focus on not making that particular mistake again. Play a few more games until that main mistake inst so much of a problem.
In the interest of public safety, you need to stop playing starcraft before you drive, until you get these issues sorted.
I suffered the same problem as you. I somewhat have a temper, but I RAGED hard as a Starcraft 2 player. I have a healthy lifestyle, things are good in that I cannot complain, returning to college after 20 years in the work force, all is right in the world.
But damnit, if I lost a closely contested match of starcraft or had a bad run of ladder games, or got cheesed badly, I would rage and fold keyboards in half. It got to the point that I would stock up on Logitech K120 refurbs because they were only $8 bucks and they can take a smash or two before I had to replace it. Blackwidows and high end gaming keyboards got expensive.
I never had this problem with Broodwar, Command and Conquer, Aliens, etc. Only Starcraft 2.
The problem for me is the game. It is somewhat balanced, but the knifes edge in which it was balanced is brutal. The smallest of errors, or a gimmicky tactic would cost you the game. Specifically for me, as a protoss player, I was fed up of playing the PvZ matchup, and if I managed to survive any number of early game cheeses and all ins, I would inevitably lose to the infamous broodlord infestor endgame. Starcraft 2 WoL was not balanced. It was close, and at the pro level was pretty even, but in my eyes, there were units and ideas in the game which were fundamentally flawed. I feel like Blizzard failed me, in that they made a great game, but completely screwed up with the unit design and ideas. When HotS released, you can see indirectly that this is recognised in the unit changes and ability changes, new units etc.
The solution for me, was to stop playing. I switched to League of Legends and I love playing that. My Starcraft background helps a great deal with map awareness and game sense.
I miss playing starcraft, but I still watch the streams, my favorite players, the tournaments and content etc. My mentality of the game and its understanding is there, I just hated playing it.
And now I no longer fold keyboards, smash mice, throw headsets, punch LCD monitors and rage. I don't like being that angry and mad.
I never bought Heart of the Swarm, and I might buy Legacy of the Void. If Blizzard can turn out a good game, with good units, and good diverse balance.
On May 09 2013 16:53 Sevredol wrote: There is some good advice in here.
My first thought would be to ask yourself: Do I get upset in other competitive situations/sports when I loose, if the answer is yes then you are going to have a much harder time trying to deal with this problem. If it is just in starcraft 2 then it is probably just a question of perspective.
I would suggest you start approaching your games from more of an improvement perspective rather than a needing to win perspective. Remember, many Code S players have win-rates around 60% meaning that they loose up to 4 games out of every 10. Loosing is actually a pretty normal part of starcraft, try to laugh at yourself and shrug it off. Keep thinking about the very best players loosing and you might not feel so bad.
The other thing is to avoid re-enforcing your own behavior. If you rage and then go straight into another game and then loose again, not only will get more mad, but you will also begin to condition yourself to be angry every time you loose. This is a vicious cycle. If you loose and get made, take a break, go for a run or jump up and down. I'm pretty sure I have read that the neural pathways associated with anger tend to stay activated for a while after being turned up, this means that you actually need 20-30 minutes sometimes to cool off. Make sure you watch the replay before you play again, think about where you went wrong and in the next game, simply focus on not making that particular mistake again. Play a few more games until that main mistake inst so much of a problem.
In the interest of public safety, you need playing starcraft before you drive, until you get these issues sorted.
I agree with pretty much all of this. As far as other competitive situations, I'm *always* competitive, and likely always will be, but I never, ever react like this, so I do suspect that perspective is the issue. This is another reason why I'm hesitant to try some sort of therapy, because I don't think it's a problem with the general workings of my brain, but rather the way my brain reacts when it's playing Starcraft.
I'm pretty sure this has been said since it's already a long thread but it bears(bars?) repeating. When I lose in whatever fashion I just take a deep breath and lets out a sigh, types gg and moves on. It doesn't really remove the horrible feeling of losing but it makes me less frustrated about it.
a) Invest in a punching bag close to your computer b) Anger management/Psychologists c) Understanding the notion that you're playing a video game for fun, and your life shouldn't be affected by it d) Everytime you rage out of line, take a 1 day break as a means of timing yourself out.
I think you need an outlet for this frustration. All rage is based in frustration. In the case of starcraft it's the frustration of not being able to win the game after a certain point.
I have raged quite a lot in my day and I have found that physical excersize regularly keeps me from building up these insane levels of testosterone. Something as cliche as having a boxing bag in your home that you work on every morning will unload some of that stress / anxiety.
You say that you are a very calm person in other instances of life but that might actually be why you are reacting this severely. If you bottle your feelings up in public they only come out even stronger when you do get angry. It is likely that your super rage is partly about starcraft but also all these small annoyances that you built up during the day.
I haven't read the whole entire thing and was enclined to think this post was a fake, especially after IdrA's legendary behaviour yesterday at WCS AM, but anyways.
You play Protoss, that's good. Not in absolute, but because I can give you the best medication there is right now for your disease : Watch Grubby's stream.
I never raged as much as you, by far. But I did find myself really really mad at times, especially after cheeses coupled with bm. The game where you start, you're thinking about what you're going to do, you get cheesed and then the guy types "l2p noob" or "gtfo" or these kind of things.
Then I started watching Grubby and I learnt, from watching him, how to accept loss and bm and cheeses. White-Ra is also an excellent guide for these aspects of the game.
I'm really serious, try it and after a week or so, come back and tell us.
I would say immediately buy a punching bag or something you can hit and take your anger out on until you learn to control it. You seem to find other things anyways. The drivning part, you should definitely not do until you cool down. I feel you though, to a lesser degree. Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, I only read the OP. GL HF!
I dont know if this is any help because I don't have a thing like this... But I mean, when you are losing and stuff, think about all the people who would laugh at you for being so angry over a video game (even worse, online & not in a personal head to head environment) and such.
The idea is that any kind of embarrassment will make you feel like you need to behave more civilized and probably cool you off or something.
Also, play unranked? I sometimes get annoyed if I get cheesed and lose ladder points, if I get cheesed in an unranked/custom game I don't care at all, not sure how it is for you.
On May 09 2013 08:58 Senshin wrote: lol, the topic title let me think of somebody else........
Yes.. when I seen it I really thought it is about "somebody" else as it pops up after last WCS AM and that "someone" post on this forum.
But sadly it isn't. It is much worse. My advice to OP is to get some professional help if you can afford it, otherwise do less stressful stuff in your life. This is far from normal.
Everyone has raged at a game in one way or another, that's perfectly normal, but if it's to the point you hurt yourself, your relationship, or others you may need professional help like a psychiatrist. There may be a deeper issue than just SC2. If you decide to get help, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact you'll probably be happier. I myself was in a similar situation when I was younger and seeking help helped me deal with it better. I wish you luck and let us know if you find help.
I want you to know that you are not alone. I've struggled with similar rage issues while playing Sc2. And to the people just saying stop it.... that is pretty terrible advice. Even Day9 who comes across as extremely chill and easy going has talked about smashing keyboards and hitting things.
The thing that I find interesting is that like you, I'm a very chill and mellow person in just about every aspect of my life. I don't typically get mad very often. I'm a very calm and go with the flow type of guy. I'm a platinum protoss player that started as bronze. I'll probably never achieve masters rank but I do feel that I've come a long way and have enjoyed learning the game and improving. I have smashed my keyboard (but luckily never broken it), punched my chair and my desk so hard that it hurt, thrown objects around the room, and screamed out obscenities.
It's definitely a competitive rage. The things that set me off are when I feel that I should have fun. Like if the opponent did an all in which I held effectively and then he or she proceeded to win anyway. It's a lot of anger at myself that I made stupid decisions and totally should have won. Another thing is when I feel relatively helpless in a game situation. Like I saw mass mutas a bit too late, so I'm struggling to defend and the zerg keeps making me cancel my 3rd base and just harassing the hell out of my mineral lines and I feel like there just isn't anything I can do.
To try to cope with my rage issues, I've tried taking a break from the game, playing other modes (free for all, 3v3) etc, playing off race in unranked, playing other games, playing sports (I try to play volleyball at least 3 times a week), seeking coaching from higher level players, and trying to just take lots of deep breaths when I lose and start feeling angry. I definitely feel that I rage way less frequently than I used to in WOL.
Best of luck Lauriel and please keep us informed on how things go and what you end up trying.
Nothing to do with sc2/games... now it's games/keyboards you rage on... next thing it's your girlfriend/wife... Go to a psychiatrist to fix whatever issues you got.
Excuse the blunt reply, but reading through this topic you would almost think this is ''normal''... it's not.
On May 09 2013 18:46 Technique wrote: Nothing to do with sc2/games... now it's games/keyboards you rage on... next thing it's your girlfriend/wife... Go to a psychiatrist to fix whatever issues you got.
Excuse the blunt reply, but reading through this topic you would almost think this is ''normal''... it's not.
Hmm...I've never actually hit another human being out of anger, so I don't think that's likely. Also, nothing else makes me rage like this, so I'm pretty sure it has something to do with SC2.
On May 09 2013 18:27 Shadowbite wrote: Hey Lauriel,
I want you to know that you are not alone. I've struggled with similar rage issues while playing Sc2. And to the people just saying stop it.... that is pretty terrible advice. Even Day9 who comes across as extremely chill and easy going has talked about smashing keyboards and hitting things.
The thing that I find interesting is that like you, I'm a very chill and mellow person in just about every aspect of my life. I don't typically get mad very often. I'm a very calm and go with the flow type of guy. I'm a platinum protoss player that started as bronze. I'll probably never achieve masters rank but I do feel that I've come a long way and have enjoyed learning the game and improving. I have smashed my keyboard (but luckily never broken it), punched my chair and my desk so hard that it hurt, thrown objects around the room, and screamed out obscenities.
It's definitely a competitive rage. The things that set me off are when I feel that I should have fun. Like if the opponent did an all in which I held effectively and then he or she proceeded to win anyway. It's a lot of anger at myself that I made stupid decisions and totally should have won. Another thing is when I feel relatively helpless in a game situation. Like I saw mass mutas a bit too late, so I'm struggling to defend and the zerg keeps making me cancel my 3rd base and just harassing the hell out of my mineral lines and I feel like there just isn't anything I can do.
To try to cope with my rage issues, I've tried taking a break from the game, playing other modes (free for all, 3v3) etc, playing off race in unranked, playing other games, playing sports (I try to play volleyball at least 3 times a week), seeking coaching from higher level players, and trying to just take lots of deep breaths when I lose and start feeling angry. I definitely feel that I rage way less frequently than I used to in WOL.
Best of luck Lauriel and please keep us informed on how things go and what you end up trying.
Tonight I played a few games before bed. I went 4-3. During each game, I said "gl hf." At the end of the game, if I lost, I said "gg." After each loss, I asked myself what happened, and identified it. Two of the losses were to the same thing (templar too clumped for easy EMP), so I made a mental note to be careful to split, especially when engaging. I also took a 1-2 minute break between each game to take a few breaths, and make sure that I closed the book on the game I just played before queueing again. So far so good - my mindset was pretty easygoing each game. We'll see what happens.
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
It depends. Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
"...prevents me from practising..."
Cheese and all in's are all part of the game. You should know and be able to deal with them too. If your against someone and their cheesing you... your still practising - just practising how to deal with cheese. All strats are viable and part of the game, you can't just expect everyone to play how you want them too
Also make sure that whenever you lose you approach the loss from the point of view of "Ok cool, I know what to do next time, next match i'll [scout better/hit that timing/ etc etc etc ] "
you're probably a perfectionist. the moment i play any game/sport somewhat competitively, losing is not an option and i become angry with myself if i do.
you should try lowering your expectations. play some stupid 4v4s. 6pool like 15 games in a row so that you rape your rank to a point where games aren't do or die. grab a beer while you play. mentally commit to the prospect of losing the game before you start.
that approach won't make you a better player, it will definitely make you a worse player. however, you're playing the game for fun, so once you know you're not trying your hardest, it's easier to accept being bad. extreme psychological band-aid solution, but it works, lolol.
Since you say you don't know yourself when you get that mad, it could be some kind of schizophrenic disorder unlocking. You should meet up with a psychiatrist.
On May 09 2013 18:51 Lauriel wrote: At the end of the game, if I lost, I said "gg."
While I don't think it would significantly help or hinder your situation, I personally dislike this sort of behavior. I don't see why people should be saying "good game" when they really mean "game over"/"You win"/"I'm leaving", especially in the situations where they did not think it was a particularly good game (due to making many bad mistakes, or having the opponent win early on from a lucky or cheesy strategy). Aside from it being disingenuous in many situations, it also completely devalues the meaning of the word if every game is supposedly good.
Now more on topic, I think venting out the anger through words may be a reasonable start, if you consider it to be a viable option. No point/need to repress anger if it does exist. If you do go down that road, don't just throw nonsensical/irrelevant insults at a person like "you're a jew/gay/explicative". Trying to explain why you thought the person was doing something bad (if they listen) may not only potentially help them (if it's constructive/respectful criticism) but they will almost inevitably explain what sort of things you may have been doing wrong, which are oftentimes good to at least partially acknowledge.
Go play with the bots that way you always win. Then again you could look inside your self and figure out why you are raging. If you have that player is bad syndrome that is probably not the case. Just check out your replay and figure out why you lost. Walk around your house after a lost because I doubt anyone plays better on tilt.
Just play a different game. It worked for me. I'm still a devote fan and tourney viewer... but I'm not playing that much these days.
I have enough stress with RL duties to be more stressed with a supposedly fun videogame. Don't get me wrong, I had some moments of great fun with this game, but losing for me is not fun (I always rage, in every sport, game or whatever, its my nature) and this game is made so you and only you are the only responsible for your losses. And you will loss one game every two.
In team games like CS or Dota or WoT, you can always blame the team, or heroes/tanks inbalance and let the rage flow.
The problem is to find new games while I'm banned for insults and flamming, but hey, more fun finding new games!! XD
The reason you're angry is because you're expecting something and you're being perfectionist about it. I used to get angry - not quite to the point you do but I said some pretty vile things. Recently (very recently) I had an epiphany regarding this and it changed my mind state about SC2.
Weirdly this change in mind state resulted in a huge win rate increase and overwhelming opponents with macro - even an offracing masters player at one point which is pretty good for gold league. So now I follow three rules:
1. The only things I say in a game relating to the game are gl hf and gg or gg wp. Everything else is small talk. 2. I am doing what I intend to do and making only tiny deviations. The reason why is that I am confident that I am going to win through sheer macro. If I think a toss is going proxy oracle I may throw down a turret. If the turret doesn't get up and I lose my marines I gg. End of. I just know to throw up a turret earlier. 3. If I lose 3 games in a row I stop playing for a bit and go play something positive. Losing sucks. Losing releases chemicals to make you feel shit. There's no need to subject yourself to it for any length of time.
Finally, I abstract myself from the game. My only goal in the game is not to win - it's to do my build and to dismantle the base of whoever I am playing against. Winning is a secondary effect of the latter - I celebrate winning, but I don't mourn losing anymore. It's like getting rejected in dating. You're not a bad person for getting rejected, they just don't know what they're missing.
The guy who beat you just didn't get to see your full awesomeness. That's his loss, not yours
I have a question. I'm afraid we have very different problems when it comes to gaming etc so maybe I can't give you any good advice from personal experience. But I always feel like I want to help in some way when I make someone really angry on the ladder or something. I mean, I don't take any of the bm to heart, but I still feel like I caused my opponent harm in some way even though it wasn't intentional of course. So my question to you is, is there anything that the opponent can say or do after you start getting angry that can be helpful or do you think it's best if the other guy just keeps quiet and wont respond?
Btw, thanks for writing this thread so that not only you but also other people can benefit from this discussion! I hope you will find a way to make the losses less meaningful for you so you can enjoy the game even more. =)
EDIT: I'm a random player who cheeses a lot so it's a common situation for me... I do it because I enjoy the playstyle though, I don't really want to make anyone angry.
On May 09 2013 18:51 Lauriel wrote: At the end of the game, if I lost, I said "gg."
While I don't think it would significantly help or hinder your situation, I personally dislike this sort of behavior. I don't see why people should be saying "good game" when they really mean "game over"/"You win"/"I'm leaving", especially in the situations where they did not think it was a particularly good game (due to making many bad mistakes, or having the opponent win early on from a lucky or cheesy strategy). Aside from it being disingenuous in many situations, it also completely devalues the meaning of the word if every game is supposedly good.
Now more on topic, I think venting out the anger through words may be a reasonable start, if you consider it to be a viable option. No point/need to repress anger if it does exist. If you do go down that road, don't just throw nonsensical/irrelevant insults at a person like "you're a jew/gay/explicative". Trying to explain why you thought the person was doing something bad (if they listen) may not only potentially help them (if it's constructive/respectful criticism) but they will almost inevitably explain what sort of things you may have been doing wrong, which are oftentimes good to at least partially acknowledge.
So say "thanks for the game" instead of gg after every match. There's nothing disingenuous about it; you're just being too literal with your interpretation of purpose and meaning of saying gg after the match. Professional sports people tend to shake hands with each other after competition too. Even when they play like shit.
I've only read the OP and don't have the time right now to go through the whole thread and look if my following advice has already been given - just felt like I should do it here and now anyway. As a therapist's sons I'm quite used to topics like this. You have already mentioned very correctly that "normal" losses in gaming, especially SC2 are a trigger for you. Now every trigger has a root (oh, the surprise! ) and by looking at your excessive reactions, the root has to be quite a strong one. You are very lucky that it can be triggered only by gaming as you could avoid playing for some time while working on yourself - what is important is that you very deeply should consider seeing a therapist and working with him to identify the root of this trigger that could cause you some serious harm. It's not that you're not a normal, healthy person, everyone has his own problems (I myself have some anger issues with stupidly lost games as well....), but in your case the potential damage you and maybe your environment could take really would legitimate some sessions to get things sorted out. By the way, from my own personal experience: Once you swallowed your pride and started talking with a therapist, it can become quite freeing. Understanding myself and therfore having the chance to work on and with myself has highered my living quality so much.
So, regardless of what you are going to do: All the best to you and try to search in yourself what unhealed experiences and feelings in you are being activated in these situation. Good luck!
The kind of behavior You are describing makes me wonder, is really the sc2 at fault here? Ar You 100% sure it isnt just a spark? Something that ignites You and makes You went anger coming from other sources? If You are 100% sure its not the case, You should probably find another hobby. Something more suitable for You. No reason to be so reckless over a game.
Take an LSD. It will dissolve some of your ego (which is clearly overgrown) and build up some imagination (which you clearly lack). Otherwise I would advise a therapy. But don't go to a shrink, find an alternative. You wouldn't like yourself after a shrink is through with you (which would most likely be expensive and took 10+ yrs).
Best of luck!
P.S. There's a reason why you put some much pressure upon yourself (and, in effect, are a highly competitive person). Finding it and figuring out how to solve it will take time. Whatever you do, you may be good at that, but you are clearly not good at knowing yourself. This brings anger, I think. Not only the fact that you cannot stop anger but that you don't know yourself enough to understand what puts you into alcohol-like rather than consciousness-altered state.
On May 09 2013 19:56 Didgaraya wrote: Take an LSD. It will dissolve some of your ego (which is clearly overgrown) and build up some imagination (which you clearly lack). Otherwise I would advise a therapy. But don't go to a shrink, find an alternative. You wouldn't like yourself after a shrink is through with you (which would most likely be expensive and took 10+ yrs).
Best of luck!
P.S. There's a reason why you put some much pressure upon yourself (and, in effect, are a highly competitive person). Finding it and figuring out how to solve it will take time. Whatever you do, you may be good at that, but you are clearly not good at knowing yourself. This brings anger, I think. Not only the fact that you cannot stop anger but that you don't know yourself enough to understand what puts you into alcohol-like rather than consciousness-altered state.
Or even better : don't get advice from the Internet. This post exemplifies why you should not. Anybody saying "don't go to a shrink, take a strong hallucinogenic drug that can have severe side effects in the case of a latent, undiagnosed mental illness" should not be taken seriously. Note that I'm not denying in any way the positive effects LSD may have : I'm just saying that someone who is not able to control its emotion to the point of hurting himself WHILE SOBER should not drink alcohol or take drugs, period.
On May 09 2013 19:56 Didgaraya wrote: Take an LSD. It will dissolve some of your ego (which is clearly overgrown) and build up some imagination (which you clearly lack). Otherwise I would advise a therapy. But don't go to a shrink, find an alternative. You wouldn't like yourself after a shrink is through with you (which would most likely be expensive and took 10+ yrs).
Best of luck!
P.S. There's a reason why you put some much pressure upon yourself (and, in effect, are a highly competitive person). Finding it and figuring out how to solve it will take time. Whatever you do, you may be good at that, but you are clearly not good at knowing yourself. This brings anger, I think. Not only the fact that you cannot stop anger but that you don't know yourself enough to understand what puts you into alcohol-like rather than consciousness-altered state.
Or even better : don't get advice from the Internet. This post exemplifies why you should not. Anybody saying "don't go to a shrink, take a strong hallucinogenic drug that can have severe side effects in the case of a latent, undiagnosed mental illness" should not be taken seriously. Note that I'm not denying in any way the positive effects LSD may have : I'm just saying that someone who is not able to control its emotion to the point of hurting himself WHILE SOBER should not drink alcohol or take drugs, period.
Don't want to get this offtopci but ... you do know what pretty promisiing end of a visit to a doc is? Right, strong drugs which can, now it comes; hurt and influence your body.
Best of Luck with your problems.
PS: Woriking wrong while being Sober doesn't conlcude to drugs not helping him cO
On May 09 2013 19:56 Didgaraya wrote: Take an LSD. It will dissolve some of your ego (which is clearly overgrown) and build up some imagination (which you clearly lack). Otherwise I would advise a therapy. But don't go to a shrink, find an alternative. You wouldn't like yourself after a shrink is through with you (which would most likely be expensive and took 10+ yrs).
Best of luck!
P.S. There's a reason why you put some much pressure upon yourself (and, in effect, are a highly competitive person). Finding it and figuring out how to solve it will take time. Whatever you do, you may be good at that, but you are clearly not good at knowing yourself. This brings anger, I think. Not only the fact that you cannot stop anger but that you don't know yourself enough to understand what puts you into alcohol-like rather than consciousness-altered state.
Or even better : don't get advice from the Internet. This post exemplifies why you should not. Anybody saying "don't go to a shrink, take a strong hallucinogenic drug that can have severe side effects in the case of a latent, undiagnosed mental illness" should not be taken seriously. Note that I'm not denying in any way the positive effects LSD may have : I'm just saying that someone who is not able to control its emotion to the point of hurting himself WHILE SOBER should not drink alcohol or take drugs, period.
Don't want to get this offtopci but ... you do know what pretty promisiing end of a visit to a doc is? Right, strong drugs which can, now it comes; hurt and influence your body.
Best of Luck with your problems.
PS: Woriking wrong while being Sober doesn't conlcude to drugs not helping him cO
That's a really bad comparison. "You can't say LSD is bad because you can get other drugs prescribed from a doctor" would be a valid train of thought if all types of medication had the same effects as LSD. They don't, so it isn't.
I think you should accept the fact that you cannot be the best at everything, and that you're going to loose in many aspects. This will make you focus on what's really important for you, and what you're good at.
After every game i lost i just pick weight and make few exercise with them and go next game so i filter my rage like that and my hands getting stronger so two way win
I'm 26 , only had 1 rage , when I was a good ages back and killed a toss 2 base All in push , then fking DTs turn up , I win but go me did I shout some shit.
God , you woulda burnt your place down if you lost like I did after being so far ahead vs a Terran yesterday .... Mines ..... I really hope you ain't Zerg lol.
Anyway yeah , the more you cry , the shitter you'll be , the more you'll lose .... I've played games my entire life , any I play I've played I've always tried to be the best , the games I've been best at , I play very calmly .... If your worked up you'll play shit.
Just deal with it .... Sorry but come on , your 27 , stop being a bitch .... Sorry but come on ....
On May 09 2013 19:56 Didgaraya wrote: Take an LSD. It will dissolve some of your ego (which is clearly overgrown) and build up some imagination (which you clearly lack). Otherwise I would advise a therapy. But don't go to a shrink, find an alternative. You wouldn't like yourself after a shrink is through with you (which would most likely be expensive and took 10+ yrs).
Best of luck!
P.S. There's a reason why you put some much pressure upon yourself (and, in effect, are a highly competitive person). Finding it and figuring out how to solve it will take time. Whatever you do, you may be good at that, but you are clearly not good at knowing yourself. This brings anger, I think. Not only the fact that you cannot stop anger but that you don't know yourself enough to understand what puts you into alcohol-like rather than consciousness-altered state.
Or even better : don't get advice from the Internet. This post exemplifies why you should not. Anybody saying "don't go to a shrink, take a strong hallucinogenic drug that can have severe side effects in the case of a latent, undiagnosed mental illness" should not be taken seriously. Note that I'm not denying in any way the positive effects LSD may have : I'm just saying that someone who is not able to control its emotion to the point of hurting himself WHILE SOBER should not drink alcohol or take drugs, period.
Don't want to get this offtopci but ... you do know what pretty promisiing end of a visit to a doc is? Right, strong drugs which can, now it comes; hurt and influence your body.
Best of Luck with your problems.
PS: Woriking wrong while being Sober doesn't conlcude to drugs not helping him cO
You just compared a doctor that got years of study to a random internet poster. Yea...
I can definitely relate. I seem to have overcome my problem though. I used to rage by punching at my bed room door, scarring knuckles or throwing my keyboard at my bedroom window. Very embarrasing. All though my rage lasted about 5-10 mins of overwhelming negative impulses not 30.
I noticed that the rage was at it's worst when my view point of my life was at it's worst. Where sc2 was what mattered the most as sad as that sounds. So I started adding other hobbies in my life and plans for the future, to devalue the importance of the game. I tried to have a healthier look on losing. Seeing what I can learn from each loss and I haven't had an instance of rage for a long time now. Other than a few no gg's. Actually a lot, but thats another thing I've been working on. Even though saying good game can be a stupid sentiment if the game was 5 mins long and bad.
Also I've been trying to find the triggers to what angers me the most and figuring out why. like: 1) Losing because I played way below my own level. So this anger is directed inwards. 2) Losing to something stupid and luck based. Like zvz where someone six pools on the biggest map in the game. 3) Losing a game where I had it in the bag at one point, but threw it away.
These are all things you can work on, learn from, or reframe. I've tried my hardest to do so and it's slowly been paying off.
On another topic about dealing with other peoples BM and Rage. I've been trying to ignore em. Unless they are extremely rude then I can get drawn in an arguement or simply attack them back, ridicule them ect. Which is a negative spiral I in the future would like to avoid. So lately I've been trying to talk a few people down, with success. An example: One dude I after having successfully one based proxy spired for kicks, responded angry at me calling me a "retarded faggot" etc etc. Asking for a rematch, I gave him one and simply just talked to him in a calm manner. He won the rematch and now he's on my friend list.
Hope any of this ranting helps. because I know how much uncontrolled raging sucks and it sounds like you have it even worse than I did/do.
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst.
This does not sound like gaming rage. This isn't like punching a locker after losing a sports game. That's not even punching your keyboard. I mean, you can try slamming your thigh instead of a breakable object, but your behavior sounds kind of disturbing and it doesn't sound like it's just about competition. :/
Maybe not a psychiatrist, but there are psychologists or counselors who could help.
With such severe problems I would find professional help, no one on these forums can provide an accurate response. I do not recommend playing the game.
May be hard to do, but talking to loved ones, and getting help ls the best option, i went through the same stuff, not involving gaming though, and seeing a doctor/therapist brought out underlying problems and has helped me work through them very slowly and is making me better. If i never had my breakdown/diagnosed with severe depression all my friends and family would have had no idea just like me.
try to remind yourself that you are playing against other humans rather than just computers. If you lose you are making somebodies day happier.
also do some exercise after each loss, just like 20 pressups and 30 sit-ups. doesn't really matter how many, just enough to let you kind of de-stress a little and release the tension before going into the next game so frustration doesnt build up so much.
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst.
This does not sound like gaming rage. This isn't like punching a locker after losing a sports game. That's not even punching your keyboard. I mean, you can try slamming your thigh instead of a breakable object, but your behavior sounds kind of disturbing and it doesn't sound like it's just about competition. :/
I fully agree. @Lauriel quote: Just a few points: You might find a solution to avoid your reactions, be it via letting energy out or not playing or whatever. But I'm afraid that it won't clear the roots of your problem there. Also, I fully understand the idea of getting professional help as a last resort, but you might be already in the situation of needing to use this last opportunity. Sure, you haven't tried some things yet and maybe something will work - my advice would be to look carefully if you can get your behaviour under a level that endangers you and/or others. Everything below that could be acceptable and if you don't want to go to some sessions then, that's fine. But I would draw the line there and at the current state say: Go and use your last resort.
Do you have any sort of insurance that might pay for the costs? Here in Germany they would pay for sessions in this case (pretty sure about this) as this is some serious, health threatening issue. One last thing: Don't worry about psychologists not being able to work with "gaming rage". It's not the game that causes you to snap, the important part is the meta information about theses situations. Every therapist worth it's money won't have any problems there, they work a little bit different than you might think.
P.S.: Psychiatrists usually work with medicine, I'm pretty sure you won't need to see those. What you might be looking for is a Psychologist/Therapist.
What has really helped me, and this took a while to realize, is when I lose it is because my opponent played that game better than I did. For the most part I have abandoned ending games with "gg" I end it with "wp" and I tell my opponent why I think they played the game well. Did they execute their rush BO correctly and microed their units well? "wp nice execution." Did the zerg constantly and consistantly shut down my multi harass and deal with my drops? "wp nice drop def." I'll then go over the replay and figure out why they beat me. Sometimes the answer is stupid like I got supply blocked and didn't have the units to defend the rush. Other times I see that I was obsessed with dropping one base all the time even though there were lesser defended bases I should be dropping. This is a game about learning from mistakes and if you are blinded by anger you'll never get better. Watch Demuslim's stream and steal his mindset. It worked for me. I've been doing this for the past two weeks and went from high diamond to mid masters. Not a huge jump I know but it is still a jump.
Well I'll say 2 things. One of wich you will likely not enjoy much. And the other is pretty much the same.
1: Seems like you are balancing out your incontrollable rages with the good looking life you have outside of that. Do you find it unnaceptable to be angry ? I would guess the reason is hidden pretty deep.
2: You likely have the means, maybe even insurances, for a psychologists. Not only crazy or depressed or weak peoples go see psychologists. People go see them when they have something hidden on their minds that they would like to work on. You don't need to tell anybody. Well, maybe your wife, depending on your situation, I don't have a solution for not wanting to tell her. I won't lie: If it's a pride thing, sometimes behing hurt on one's pride hurt as much as not going to seek help.
Also, you need to train yourself to be an emotional rock if you want to play SC2 but keep your competitive drive it intact. Part of this is accepting the fact you WILL lose games, and the best way to improve is to study every game you lose and figure out why. A good way of going about it is to never play another game after a loss until you pinpoint something you could have done differently to avoid the loss. This could be something as simple as better building placement, to micro mistakes etc etc.
Also, if you're suffering from depression, or even suspect you suffer from depression, you should get help immediately. If you're anger is directed mostly towards yourself after you lose I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
What I suggest is: When you know you're going to lose the game, move your hands away from mouse and keyboard and just watch your opponent's army and go "lol". Then type gg and leave.
This sounds like DEEP underlying issues, coming out in somethings stressful. This sounds like some sort of stress disorder. There are medications around for it. I've been on one called Ativan for stress in high school. I ended up having anxiety in high school and it would cause me to get very hostile about situations. I didn't get into too many physical situations, but I did tell a few teachers off, to this day I feel I was right but I could've handled it differently. That being said, a new hobby might be a good move. On the flip side, you can get diagnosed with an anxiety or stress disorder. That prescription is relatively simple to get because it's not harmful in any way.
I agree with anomaly on this one. If you're going to play a competitive game or sport, then you need to be mentally prepared to lose when you're practicing/training. Do so by being an emotional rock as anomaly said - not by not caring but by not being afraid of failure.
When I played tennis in high school I would rage so hard when I would lose any match I felt I could have won. Then when I started basketball my teammates would swiftly give me a kick in the ass if I would go on tilt after a couple missed shots. The team atmosphere in bball keeps the players more mentally grounded and stronger imo. Next thing I knew I was Zen as hell on the tennis court and never raging, causing me to get SO much better and simply train with a better frame of mind and appreciate training more.
I suggest that you pick up a sport with a lot of contact. Boxing, bball, soccer, something like that. That way you'll start looking at yourself a different way and realize that you are mentally weak (compared to other competitors) if you allow your emotions to get the better of you over a video game. This realization should toughen you up.
On May 09 2013 19:38 wwJd)El_Mojjo wrote: Lauriel,
I have a question. I'm afraid we have very different problems when it comes to gaming etc so maybe I can't give you any good advice from personal experience. But I always feel like I want to help in some way when I make someone really angry on the ladder or something. I mean, I don't take any of the bm to heart, but I still feel like I caused my opponent harm in some way even though it wasn't intentional of course. So my question to you is, is there anything that the opponent can say or do after you start getting angry that can be helpful or do you think it's best if the other guy just keeps quiet and wont respond?
Btw, thanks for writing this thread so that not only you but also other people can benefit from this discussion! I hope you will find a way to make the losses less meaningful for you so you can enjoy the game even more. =)
EDIT: I'm a random player who cheeses a lot so it's a common situation for me... I do it because I enjoy the playstyle though, I don't really want to make anyone angry.
Also, for those mentioning the screaming or fits of rage, the screaming doesn't actually last terribly long. It's the staying angry that lasts for a good while. And I'm certain that I'm not schizophrenic, nor do I need medication. The problem is mindset and perspective - I'm virtually certain.
On May 09 2013 08:52 rANDY wrote: Sounds like you should stop playing SC2, no game is worth this. Find another hobby that does not affect you so negatively.
I predict that if the patient quits SC2 he will see this same anger pattern manifest itself from other 'causes'. I do not think the "cause" is losing games of SC2.
of course this is all 2nd hand speculation based of a wall of text written on an anonymous forum board.
i recommend a psychotherapist. my personal preference is someone who uses Nathaniel Branden's "sentence completion techniques" to get to the root of issues.
On May 09 2013 08:52 rANDY wrote: Sounds like you should stop playing SC2, no game is worth this. Find another hobby that does not affect you so negatively.
I predict that if the patient quits SC2 he will see this same anger pattern manifest itself from other 'causes'. I do not think the "cause" is losing games of SC2.
of course this is all 2nd hand speculation based of a wall of text written on an anonymous forum board.
i recommend a psychotherapist. my personal preference is someone who uses Nathaniel Branden's "sentence completion techniques" to get to the root of issues.
On May 09 2013 08:52 rANDY wrote: Sounds like you should stop playing SC2, no game is worth this. Find another hobby that does not affect you so negatively.
I predict that if the patient quits SC2 he will see this same anger pattern manifest itself from other 'causes'. I do not think the "cause" is losing games of SC2.
of course this is all 2nd hand speculation based of a wall of text written on an anonymous forum board.
i recommend a psychotherapist. my personal preference is someone who uses Nathaniel Branden's "sentence completion techniques" to get to the root of issues.
Some things we do because we have responsibilities, because we need to. Others are more discretionary
Much of life is about these choices. We choose to do some things, and not others. Why?
Because we get some kind of reward out of something - a reward that makes the effort pay off.
IF you are causing massive stress, losing control of yourself, causing problems with your life and even potentially endanger yourself of others over gaming when you lose...
BUT you only get a feeling of "relief" when you win?
Where is the reward for your efforts? What are you actually gaining from all the countless hours spent behind your computer playing a game, if the problems cause you suffering and the reward is only a temporary reprieve from your own angst?
It's not worth it at that point.
Simply do not do things that cause you suffering with little to no payoff that makes it worthwhile.
Stop playing. Get some perspective.
Why is any of it worth it to you?
If you can't stop and get some perspective. this is a sign you might have some kind of addiction to the rage and pain it's causing you.
You need to figure that out for yourself man.
Because one of these days it's going to come out in some other aspect of your life. One day you might start abusing your girl or threatening people at work.
This seems perfectly normal to me for an exhausted mind, I happen to have this too and I'm 26 y/o. However, it surfaces not due to gaming but due to lack of sleep.
On May 10 2013 01:18 Maggost wrote: I stopped playing SC2 and i dont rage in any other games. So that might be the solution, think about it!
I think it's mostly because there is a rather high skill requirement for SC2. You invest a lot of time and energy into the game which makes it all the more possibly bruising to your ego when you lose. Again, the solution is to embrace losses, know that EVERYONE loses, and that the best way to get better is to learn from whatever beats you. Be an emotional rock, don't let that mess with your training.
You are clearly trying to balance a lot of things in your life. Job, uni, girlfriend and competitive(ly minded) starcraft sounds like a lot. Especially off the 6 hours of sleep. So that's the first problem. You need more sleep. To get that, you need to be more tired. Start working out every day or at least 5-6 times a week (just do push-ups, sit-ups and run almost every day until tired - you'll feel better and sleep more). Of course with more sleep, comes less free time. This is where you need to prioritize things and decide what's more important to you. Perhaps you could decide that SC2 is not for you because it would be time consuming to get decent at it. Spending less than 2 hours a day on it (that includes reading streams and strategies - so doesn't have to be all hardcore laddering), in my opinion will only lead to constant frustrations and not understanding anything about why you lose. My advice - don't play 1v1 unless you are quite serious about improving.
If you do decide to keep starcraft in your life, you need to detach yourself from the game. By that I mean, think of the game as you would of cooking dinner. You don't rage when you burn your dinner do you? You just try to cook it better next time. Obviously a lot of this is just how you think about the game but there are a couple of things you can do to make it easier:
1. Understand that you probably don't understand very much - you are no pro and you probably don't know the right solution to every problem in the game. Accept that - solve the in-game problems the best way you can and if it doesn't work out... well.... you are no pro - why should it work out? Defeatist mentality is normally a bad thing, but for learning at the most basic level, trying new things and not raging, it's just what you need. 2. Try new approaches and take risks on the ladder. Do occasional all-ins and do expands that are blatantly not safe. That way when you lose, it's both less surprising and less damaging to morale - it makes you feel like you are playing for fun and doing whatever you want as opposed to trying to win every single game which is way more stressful. Don't take ladder too seriously. 3. Finally, you actually need to believe you can deal with your rage problems. The problem is your inadequate behavior. Remove the actions you do when you rage (just don't do the things you do), and there is no problem - just a feeling of disappointment at loss that all of us feel. Obviously don't play if you are angry. Take a break, have a drink and then watch the replay.
On May 10 2013 01:18 Maggost wrote: I stopped playing SC2 and i dont rage in any other games. So that might be the solution, think about it!
I think it's mostly because there is a rather high skill requirement for SC2. You invest a lot of time and energy into the game which makes it all the more possibly bruising to your ego when you lose. Again, the solution is to embrace losses, know that EVERYONE loses, and that the best way to get better is to learn from whatever beats you. Be an emotional rock, don't let that mess with your training.
when i was about 10 we used to play Atari Baseball with the adults. They smash their little joystick controllers into a million pieces when they lost.
I think a lot of this could be because of being over the internet.
I used to get pretty upset when I played starcraft. I felt like I would put in so much more work than that other person, or I felt that I outplayed that person in every single aspect and they just got lucky. The thing I think could be a big problem is that we're playing over the internet (anonymity).
Say you're playing basketball with other people and it's getting competitive. You're able to see their emotions, exhaustion, and frustration as you play together or against each other. So if you see that you can kind of relate to them even if you lose.
When you play over the internet and you have no idea who you're playing against, you might think of the worst. Some snotty little kid or smug punk just smiling on the other side looking down on you.
I think not being able to see the person physically might be something that could set you off, maybe? Just try to think that when you lose, he's just the same as you. Also because this game is 1v1 if you lose it's your fault, and not your teams. Just remember that the person you're facing is the same as you. Throwing their talent and skill into a game hoping to get better or be better than before. If you get cheesed then brush it off and say "Hey you know what. That kid is a piece of shit, but i should have scouted." and just be on to the next one.
I'm not sure if you like to listen to music while you play, but maybe you can find a genre of music that you like and keep you relaxed if you play? If you get on a losing streak, it's important to just take a break before you get to the breaking point. Just find something productive or calming to do and get back at it.
All in all I don't think you need to quit, just need to accept the situation and take it as it comes.
On May 10 2013 01:18 Maggost wrote: I stopped playing SC2 and i dont rage in any other games. So that might be the solution, think about it!
I think it's mostly because there is a rather high skill requirement for SC2. You invest a lot of time and energy into the game which makes it all the more possibly bruising to your ego when you lose. Again, the solution is to embrace losses, know that EVERYONE loses, and that the best way to get better is to learn from whatever beats you. Be an emotional rock, don't let that mess with your training.
when i was about 10 we used to play Atari Baseball with the adults. They smash their little joystick controllers into a million pieces when they lost.
Eh. I never had rage problems while playing Baseball during middle/high school. I didn't rage in Counter Strike 1.6 way back in the day (I mean maybe very very rarely, and not on the level I used to have in sc2), nor do I have any issues whatsoever in LoL or Dota 2 or w/e else I play these days. I definitely did have some pretty explosive anger in sc2, though, and some when I played war3 back in the day (mostly just vs hackers though).
Maybe it's just a problem with RTS, but I really think it's because you have to invest more into that style of game than others. Losses can also feel cheap or bewildering when you're still in the learning phase. In any case, you can fix the problem, it just takes some work.
If you check out my older VODs you will see lots of rage. The moment I picked bodybuilding (Strength training 3-4 times a week, eating 4000+ kcal a day for hypertrophy, sleeping at least 8 hours a night) again, I noticed a huge increase in calmness and self-control. The need to hit that enter button and put some meaningless words down, decreased significantly.
I can fully unstress during my workout and proper food plans keep my energy levels up so that my blood sugar doesn't dip to below regular, which can cause grumpyness and irritation.
But i most likely only rage if something if very little probabilty happens. Games where i win 99,9% of the time but everything falls down so unfortunate that i still managed to lose. I had some games where i lost to ridicolous bad luck (chances lower than 1 to 10000, more than 5-6things had to go a certain way to lose) and this drives me on the edge. Not just in starcraft, in poker you could literally calculate the odds:
I played a game where i was a very deep stack on the table, the other guy had a decent stack too (6player table), but i was constantly bluffing him out of a hand and he always stayed in the hand when i had really good one myself. So i wored myself up to about 2-3x the amount of the maximum buy in. So were are in a big hand, he have the nuts flush on the turn, he has a set, we are working ourself up to me putting everything in, on the river he gets a fullhouse and i lose a big part of my stack, i m a little bit angry but it told myself "bad beats happen". I work myself up to a deep stack again, after constantly owining him (while he was owning the other guys on the table) he gets mad. I have JJ and he has A3, he tries to blindsteal when i slowplayed my hand preflop, i raise him again, he reraises, so on the flop we have a huge pot already (about 60 bucks). The flop is 2 8 J, all different colours, so i have a really sick hand. I trie to slowplay him again, and just check, he raises m,e with a potsize bet, he reraise, he goes allin. The pot is 400bucks now (the biggest pot ive ever played). So as the cards are put on i expect me to win this pot 100% (after i saw the hand) and i expect the huge pot move towards my player icon, but the pot moves away instead, my brain not able to realize what just happened. He got 4 and 5 on the turn and river. Chances for that is about 1%. When i finally realized what happened, i got up and punched the wall as hard as i could, which resulted in fractioning the backside of my hand and i had to get a titanium plate in it.
I hate losing to bad luck, if things fall down so unfortunate not just once but 3 or more times. I also rage when i feel i was the better player but the other guy got lucky at a certain point (or i feel he got lucky). That makes me really mad.
I never ever destroy equipment, i just slammed my keyboard once. A friend of mine had to buy new headsets every other month at his worst raging times.
What helps me a lot and i m a lot more chilled is when i work out at the gym and move big weights. Not just for the sake of gaining muscle mass but also release tension buy forcing yourself to the limit. And i dont mean endurance but pure strengh, put everything you got in lifting the weight, all your anger and frustration goes into it. After a workout i m really relaxed and i dont mind losing. I was thinking about getting a CoCgripper so i can squeeze my anger into something physical. I think that is a really good solution, you can release your anger in silence wihtout damaging yourself or objects.
Rage is normal. You just have to control it. If you feel like punching something, punch a pillow or strangle a towel. You see rage everywhere in sports/competition, it's up to the person what he does with it.
It's not the rage itself that leads to bad things, it's your actions. Just saying "I cant control what I do when I rage". That is to alleviate yourself from responsibility of your actions. If you can't learn to control it then you should stop playing until you can.
Since you obviously know that you will probably go into rage mode during your gaming session it's an aware decision on your part.
Just quit playing sc2. I never get mad, but when I played SC2 I was angry like never before. Never broke anything, just felt terribly inside. Decided that since I play for fun if I rage It obviously ruins all the previous and potential upcoming fun, so I stopped playing/switched to games where I don't get mad at.
If you had that kind of anger issues after taking drugs and nothing else in your life caused anger in you, would you ask for help with anger management, or would you consider quitting drugs ?
I can't tell if th is is a troll post or not but if it isn't you just should just stop playing Sc2. Nothing of what you described is even remotely close to normal reactions from playing a game. Even if that happened a couple times of what you described is pretty bad but for it to be a common thing just seems foolish. You aren't playing this game for a living so you should probably stop before you do something reckless to your body or something/someone around u over a video game
On May 09 2013 09:03 Canucklehead wrote: You might have a split personality. Go and see a psychiatrist to get help. Take some pills and chill. Why you haffta be mad...it's only a game?
On May 09 2013 08:57 HeeroFX wrote: i know you said this before but maybe you should grow up? What I mean by this is look at your life and say "is losing a match in a video game I play for fun a big deal?" Sure we all get frustrated, when we lose, but grown ups move past those frustrating moments and power through them. But no offense I feel like your one of those people who shouldn't play video games you can lose at because of the fact you wrote:
1. Slamming my fists into any objects around me with such force and consistency that I have damaged the nerves in my hands, wrists, and fingers several times, sometimes requiring months to heal. At one point I thought I was going to need surgery for a nerve impingement, but was fortunate to be able to avoid it. 2. Throwing, damaging, and breaking objects around me. Yesterday, I managed to slam 4 or 5 keys off of my $120.00 mechanical keyboard. Fortunately I was able to find them and re-attach them and it still works (good on you, Corsair!). 3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst. I was actually cited for a noise violation by my apartment complex late last year for this and the associated slamming and banging. 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
really tells me that you need to grow up, get mental help, don't play the game. Hope this helps you, I am not trying to be mean, but your situation is pretty stupid.
"Grow up" is a weak answer. You obviously don't understand what maturing is. Everyone has their demons and your suggestion makes it seem like you don't. But you suffer in another part of your life, but it may not be rage.
I've already sent a PM to the OP, but this is a legit issue guys. "Growing up" doesn't mean shit in this situation. I'm a pretty mature person when it comes to discussions about philosophy, sociology, science, anthropology among other subjects. I'm pretty level headed, but I too suffer from literally the EXACT. SAME. PROBLEM. and it only happens in SC2, and very few other games. Things can make me angry, but nothing pisses me off more than losing games of SC2. It's not about admitting your flaws either - I know where my mistakes are, but that doesn't stop it.
IMO and experience it's a psychological problem. Not that the OP is crazy,but what happens is you associate anger with stupid things like losing when you feel like you should have won, or even when you shouldn't have won. It's honestly uncontrollable once you hit the peak point. Yes, there's always a choice, but when your emotions escalate to certain point, choice becomes irrelevant. The power of anger is like a drug - it feels SO good to feel that anger, but the hangover after is much worse.
Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean you're more mature, or that being more mature means you don't get mad. Mature people have emotions, and have just as many demons.
1 and 2 are just standard rage, nothing special. 3 and 4 however are both scary and dangerous. Imagine causing someone getting handicapped for life cause you drove reckless since you lost a sc2 game. I am sure that person will love to hear that.
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
Not that I think you should, or that others are being particularly helpful (at all), in recent years psychology has taken a new approach to gaming/gaming addiction/gaming anger etc... Its fairly common, granted to different degree's, but yours is certainly an extreme case. You need to stop playing when you go on a losing streak...I'm serious...When you start to feel like that you need to find it in the angry thoughts to STOP....and think...that you need to take a quick break.
I would say that Starcraft can effect you more than other games, because you put a lot of yourself into the game. When you lose all your units and then lose the game, it's tricks you into thinking you've lost all you have. I sometimes have dreams that equate Starcraft to real life. (Ex. I was dreaming about people fighting and thought, "how can they do all that off one base?")
I'd say that macro games are harder to deal with, because you have so many units and so much infrastructure, and it can be hard to watch it all die. Starcraft isn't something you should feel emotional about, but it's like watching a movie. If you saw a movie where the people lost everything they had and couldn't get anything back, you feel sad. When you lose a Starcraft game, it's a similar concept, only it pertains to you.
If you wish to continue playing Starcraft, I suggest you make considerations before everything you do. If you're planning on attacking, think, "I could lose the game if he defends well." I think that becoming a cheesy or aggressive player would help your rage out, so you may want to play Terran. You won't be angry if you're busy making them angry! :D
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
Not that I think you should, or that others are being particularly helpful (at all), in recent years psychology has taken a new approach to gaming/gaming addiction/gaming anger etc... Its fairly common, granted to different degree's, but yours is certainly an extreme case. You need to stop playing when you go on a losing streak...I'm serious...When you start to feel like that you need to find it in the angry thoughts to STOP....and think...that you need to take a quick break.
No, he needs to stop playing SC2 completely for a month or two. Those small breaks don't do shit to stop this. I've tried it. I've tried hours, days, weeks. Nothing stops this. The moment I sit down and start laddering again, it starts over. It doesn't matter what psychological hoops I get myself to jump through. I still have the same problem. Quitting SC2 has been the best thing I've done for the health of my life and brain. I find myself getting less angry and not being as anxious. I still have those moments, but they're so much easier to fight off.
It sucks trying to explain this to people because those who don't suffer from it, don't understand that this isn't normal rage. It's a combination of disappointment, anger and regret. I admit the mistakes I make, and write them down when I would play, but it didn't help. I think pretty rationally, and able to be open for a lot of discussion even when I disagree. I even play SFIV now instead of SC2, and I cannot get mad at that game. Hell, I've been playing this dude for the past 3 days, and he does the same fucking move over and over, and beats me sometimes. He is terrible at SFIV, but I cannot get mad. I lose to people online in SFIV, and don't get angry. I lose to people in Smash bros., and stay calm (i'm not even half bad at Smash bros). This isn't a general anger issue. It's game specific, and not genre either.
Forget about all the weird stuff people tell you to do. Just think about it. You are probably way more than smart enough to understand why you lose games. Of course! you just need to think about why you lose and move on. Doing barbaric rage movements is just a way to express your frustration instead of working with the problem - that you lose. You are just handling losses in the wrong way. I promise you. If you just sit down and concentrate. There is a reason for everything. If you lose, and do not know why you lost. Just watch the replay. Write down what you need to improve, and repeat for next loss.
Also. A lot of people get into rage even when they know what they need to imrpove - but the improvement looks so far fetched that they feel hopeless - and the reaction is rage.
On May 10 2013 00:47 Lauriel wrote: Also, for those mentioning the screaming or fits of rage, the screaming doesn't actually last terribly long. It's the staying angry that lasts for a good while. And I'm certain that I'm not schizophrenic, nor do I need medication. The problem is mindset and perspective - I'm virtually certain.
Neither us nor you have the expertise or perspective to make that judgment. You are certainly not capable of keeping an objective perspective in this regard, no one is. That's why you should see someone. You're describing very serious symptoms that are not common among people playing video games and sound potentially harmful. Saying "you know yourself and it's just about mindset" is an absolute cop out. You're not in the correct position to make that judgment. Neither are we. A professional might be.
This goes way further than just some anger after losing, you really should consider getting professional help, an internet forum is not the place to deal with such serious issues!
And for example:
have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
I really doubt it matter if your anger issues come from gaming or from something else. SC2 is just the catalyst for you, but it isn't the problem.
You might not want profesional help now, but I am afraid if you do want it it is too late. You say you start speeding when you got your issues, and with your other description I am guessing you will also drive very aggressive. So my first advice would be: DONT DRIVE IN SUCH A STATE. Next advice is that if you wait with getting real help until after you kill someone by effectively driving intoxicated you are too late.
And since you are a student, doesn't about every university have people where you can go to with mental issues? Granted generally meant for more study related issues, but not always, and it might be a cheap/free starting location to get help.
The people saying he needs to grow up are idiots. Of course he needs to develop a better attitude, but HOW?
Quitting the game is one way, but it's not really solving the root of the problem, now is it?
I personally think the person has to look into themselves and find out what exactly causes the anger. What's the thought process, what are the chain of feelings that you feel? On a basic level it would be the feeling of helplessness. Why do you feel helpless? Why do you feel anger? For example many people get mad because they think that they are the better player by default. Aka "I'm in Gold, but I'm actually at Diamond level I just haven't been promoted yet/haven't been trying to win too much. Gold players suck, I'm not actually one of them". Proceeds to get beaten by a Gold player. Explodes in rage ("He should have lost, I'm better, hooowwww?!"). Also similar to blaming races. "[Insert race] is OP! I would be beating these noobs if only they didn't have access to this overpowered race! Aaarrghh!" That's one example of the possible thought process behind the rage.
no game is worth danger to yourself or the people you love. I sometimes get the same way, I dont really have a good way to treat the "symptoms" if you want to call them that.. I just try to stay away from people until I cool off. The best advice I can give you is to prepare beforehand. Im the most competative person I know, and I dont ever want to stop competing, but at the same time I have to acknowledge that I rage really fucking hard sometimes, and thats just how I am. I try to only play when I am alone and I am free to throw whatever fit I have to without putting anything/anybody in harms way. I try to prepare for rage beforehand, I recommend you do the same. If its really that bad where even thats not enough, it might be time to give it up. and to all the people who are saying "grow up"-- get out of the fucking thread and shut up
Try to make friends in the game, and just practice with them instead of laddering. I too become very upset (albeit not quite as much as you) and I've found that just playing with friends makes the game better.
Therapy is definitely helpful, sure they may not be experienced with sc2, but I assure you there are professionals that have experience with a. addiction and b. gambling in general. I find the emotional side of sc2 very similar to gambling as its high risk high reward when it comes to happiness (that euphoric "I just won" feeling), and its an addiction to achieving that happiness and the hampering of that which causes the anger. Most assuredly a professional can help you deal with it.
Leave your ego out of the game man. Take a step back and be proud and grateful for all you've accomplished. SC2 is NOT something you will ever be good at without losing at least half your games for a long loooooooong time. Accept it, and realize losing an sc game is not a comment on how smart you are, but just that you haven't practiced enough at that point.
Being a perfectionist may make you good at a lot of things, but trust me when I say it can make you miserable if taken too far. You're only human, just like everyone else.
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
what this guy said..
If your live is as perfect as you say, and the only time you really get rage like this, then i suggest stop playing sc2
OR, you can do this. Play with a friend, if anyone of yours play sc2 ,and are better than you. tell them about this if they dont know, and then practice vs them only, and PREFERABLE if they are better than you and stomp you every game. and after the game,watch replays and let him tell you what you did right and wrong, this i think could help your anger-management if someone close to you defeats you and yeah.. help you out, if you see where i am going?
anger problem is nothing to play with... just recently my best ,and only friend had some serious problems.. long story short: he's been in forced care from oktober last year and hes FINALLY done in august this year..so yeah.. anger problems.. sick stuff.. good luck !
On May 10 2013 04:04 Aveng3r wrote: no game is worth danger to yourself or the people you love. I sometimes get the same way, I dont really have a good way to treat the "symptoms" if you want to call them that.. I just try to stay away from people until I cool off. The best advice I can give you is to prepare beforehand. Im the most competative person I know, and I dont ever want to stop competing, but at the same time I have to acknowledge that I rage really fucking hard sometimes, and thats just how I am. I try to only play when I am alone and I am free to throw whatever fit I have to without putting anything/anybody in harms way. I try to prepare for rage beforehand, I recommend you do the same. If its really that bad where even thats not enough, it might be time to give it up. and to all the people who are saying "grow up"-- get out of the fucking thread and shut up
Fuck, this guy gets it. This is not an easy problem to solve. I agree entirely. Either prepare for it beforehand, or give up playing Starcraft 2. It sucks to have to admit that you won't be masters or whatever rank it is you wanted to be, but it's better than getting mad. This shit will ruin your life. It will start seeping into other parts eventually, and will crush you.
I am all for giving it up. I've been doing that lately, and I feel like a weight was lifted from my chest. Not wanting to play SC2 has probably the best thing I've done to calm my general anxiety I've been having lately.
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
It depends. Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
That's interesting. Is it possible that you have expectations on what should happen in the game, and you are frustrated when it does not happen ?
For example, wanting to play macro when you opponent all-ins ?
I can relate to that. Theses days I want to practice defending against terran drops. However I feel like I'm not improving when I don't practice many games in a row vs terran, and I'm not interested when I play the 2 other races. One way to help with this was to find a terran practice partner.
Sc2 is definitly a game where you have to analyse the situation and adapt to it. It makes me mad when I feel I played dumb. (ie: I had hints my opponent was doing something, and did not react appropriately / enough )
Edit: Nice idea ! If you feel that's the case, you could choose an early game agressive build that you do every game. It will help you take the lead and control the game. Just do a 2 rax / 4 gate / 14 pool and repeat it, whatever the result is. Personnally, when I learned to 4 gate, I felt I accepted way better the outcome of the game if I executed it well and at least tried something.
Tl:DR : Do a rush and stick to it whatever happens. Do it many, many games in a row. Might help you accept the outcome of the games.
I empathize with your predicament Lauriel and although it wasn't as severe with me, I used to get angry after losing a number of games in a row (although this is with LoL, haven't worked my way into the SC2 ladder yet) as well. Now I can honestly say I don't rage at losing anymore, I may still get discouraged at times or not feel like playing for the rest of the day but I no longer get angry. While I am not educated in psychology to really help I can only tell you what worked for me, which may not be much because one day I just stopped caring about losing. To elaborate I got placed in Bronze 3 for LoL and after 70 games I had gone up to Bronze 2 and then right down to Bronze 4 but managed to crawl my way back up to Bronze 3 when I hit my 71st (ish) game. Now I play most of my games on unranked with friends (about 80% of my unranked game are with friends on Mumble) and I used to get so angry when we would lose, which would in turn cast a negative shroud over the chat room and that just sucks the fun right out of it. It was playing ranked in solo queue that caused me to first just stop caring about my performance and I got quite robotic, playing for the sake of playing with no real enjoyment. What turned it around for me was one day there were six of us online so we just decided to do ARAMs against each other (which we usually avoided doing because it usually involved one team steamrolling the other) until somebody left and we could play 5-man games. Something odd happened though, it was a close match with a lot of chatter and smack talk that came down to the wire and even though my team lost that game, something clicked inside telling me "this is why you started playing LoL and this is what you love about it". After that everything just stopped bugging me about the game, I focus on what I did wrong if I lose so I can improve. I apologize for not making much sense but I guess what to take away from all of this is to find the reason that you started playing this game you love and remember that, once I did that I was able to enjoy the game again, I wish you luck in your journey sir.
Couple of points... maybe scientific maybe not... no time to do hardcore research, but I feel there is a lot of truth in this:
1. When you get really pissed off... logical parts of your brain start to shut down. I believe I have read (double check this) the higher the testosterone and/or if it affects your personality more, the more this happens. I would assume it's a combo of testosterone and adrenaline. Biologically this made sense in the past... our ancient ancestors maybe had to fight off a lion to live or beat up a caveman who was moving in on their woman.
2. People that are seriously competitive and serious personalities can get pissed off like crazy from losing at Starcraft. It happens, it's worse for some people than others.
Recommendations... consider using your energy and hormones in a productive way. Exercise heavily ... try before you play the game or after you lose, do 50 pushups or something to burn off the aggravation. Have some nearby things that you don't mind breaking, and break them. Basically you need to plan around getting pissed off before you get pissed off, because at that moment it is too late.
Consider the people around you before you get too mad. You don't want to scare off someone because you are raging.
Play unranked. It is much easier to tell yourself it's practice and doesn't matter if it is unranked.
Play random unranked. And DO NOT only play for long macro games. Learn and try every style out there, especially any that annoy you. In your unranked play, get demoted so you can mess around and not have to play seriously. It's fine, playing random at a lower level is fair, right?
Hope that helps a little. Main thing is, use your brain before you get pissed off so you don't do stupid shit after it is too late. Plan beforehand to NOT drive after a gaming session. Plan beforehand to break something other than your nerves, etc.
On May 09 2013 19:12 ImperialFist wrote: Since you say you don't know yourself when you get that mad, it could be some kind of schizophrenic disorder unlocking. You should meet up with a psychiatrist.
I'm not an expert but I dont believe schizophrenia is associated with rage attacks...
I've the same issue but I unleash my rage through bming my opponent very hard and then I feel very bad about it and when I say I won't bm again it just happens, it's like adrenaline coming when I'm losing a game it's so annoying.
First of all perhaps you should evaluate whether you think playing this game is something you still enjoy doing.
If somehow its so worthwhile that you'll risk endangering other aspects of your life with your rage, I recommend you speak to a professional therapist or psychiatrist. Perhaps go to an anger management course. I really feel like you should be better able to handle your emotions at this age, if you can't it might be an indicator that you have some serious issues.
On May 10 2013 04:04 Aveng3r wrote: no game is worth danger to yourself or the people you love. I sometimes get the same way, I dont really have a good way to treat the "symptoms" if you want to call them that.. I just try to stay away from people until I cool off. The best advice I can give you is to prepare beforehand. Im the most competative person I know, and I dont ever want to stop competing, but at the same time I have to acknowledge that I rage really fucking hard sometimes, and thats just how I am. I try to only play when I am alone and I am free to throw whatever fit I have to without putting anything/anybody in harms way. I try to prepare for rage beforehand, I recommend you do the same. If its really that bad where even thats not enough, it might be time to give it up. and to all the people who are saying "grow up"-- get out of the fucking thread and shut up
Fuck, this guy gets it. This is not an easy problem to solve. I agree entirely. Either prepare for it beforehand, or give up playing Starcraft 2. It sucks to have to admit that you won't be masters or whatever rank it is you wanted to be, but it's better than getting mad. This shit will ruin your life. It will start seeping into other parts eventually, and will crush you.
I am all for giving it up. I've been doing that lately, and I feel like a weight was lifted from my chest. Not wanting to play SC2 has probably the best thing I've done to calm my general anxiety I've been having lately.
this is a pretty good example of a perspective that wants to be helpful in the short-term while ignoring the long-term. what I'm getting from the OP is that we see here a set of life heuristics where, because of various factors relating to competitiveness, learning and playing and the common instances of frustration and anger that result from not always meeting your goals in all of those factors, SC2 becomes a way to easily channel and express anger. that's obvious, but here's the message behind that: SC2, as an activity and a game, is not uniquely conducive to anger. I'm a fairly angry player and a sore loser myself, but those traits originate from me and my day-to-day experiences, my ways of coping, and I play with people on SC2 and LoL every day that keep calm and can't be bothered with blowing virtual wins and losses out of proportion. this isn't a judgment so much as it is a definitive way of stating that the anger you bring in is ultimately of you; you have to answer for it, and when you're looking to cast a game you apparently enjoy a lot out of your life, it inevitably places too much of that onus on the medium for your anger, and not the actual anger and where it might originate from in your life. equally as inevitably, if you think any of this rambling strikes a chord with you and you don't want to discard your hobbies as a consequence of making them into coping mechanisms, it's time to see a therapist.
an important sidenote: telling the OP to discard a coping mechanism such as this is a surefire way of making sure that anger starts to manifest in other areas of his life more abruptly. it might end up being less explosive, perhaps, but it's not really a fix that could be otherwise described as anything other than a band-aid.
You're speeding around in a tons worth of metal (deadly weapon) at speed in rage at losing in an Internet game? How would you feel if you caused an accident or killed a kid?
You should get pulled by the Police doing that shit - might actually give you some perspective.
Go see a doctor. Buy some stressballs. Learn some relaxation and breathing techniques.
Note: it's not the game, it's you, and will return when you do something else and find yourself in the same situation. Like many others have said - get help.
If this is actually causing you to do the things you're describing I'd really recommend taking a break from (competitive) gaming for a while. Nothing in a videogame is ever worth the risk of hurting someone over.
Just stick to watching for now! You can enjoy esports as much as ever and not have to worry about gaming having a negative impact on other parts of your life.
I used to punch the hell out of my desk after losing a game sometimes and really hurt my hand. I took a break from sc2 and when I came back I just had the attitude that I want to improve at the game. Raging a lot can be big hindrance on being able to improve so I promised myself I would say 'gg' to my opponent for every game I lost.
Since changing my attitude and respecting my opponents, it made me completely relaxed in my games and improved my skill. Whenever my opponents raged at me, I would think wow I feel sorry for this guy ridiculously getting so worked up about a game (even though that used to be me)
Recently though, I came back from a 10-day break and I absolutely sucked in the first 15 games or so. This made me really frustrated and I broke my promise and stopped gg-ing, which made me more frustrated. I did hit my desk once, but not so hard.
Now I'm studying for exams so I can't play, but when I get back to playing I'm going to have to consciously be aware of my attitude and not break that promise again. Then I should be fine and relaxed during losses, only looking to improve and have fun =)
I believe that the more you let yourself get frustrated by a loss, the worse the frustration will get in the future. Slamming your fists is a way of letting out the frustration that has built up to such an extreme amount, and it will feel much better to do that than just doing nothing and sit still in that deep rage.
The next time you play, you will tell yourself to not slam your fists after losing. However, prolonging the release of tension will build up more tension and can cause you to be even more angry and out of control than the previous occasion.
So basically, you can't solve the issue by telling yourself to not do anything irrational after losing in sc2. It sounds stupid, but you must learn to not get angry after any loss. Taking a break and re-approaching the game with different attitude seems like the best idea. And if you find yourself starting to get angry again, you have to take a step back and re-approach it again, or it will just escalate to what it was before.
You sound like an intelligent person, I believe you already know the answer or have the means of answering this for yourself. The issue is you get angry after multiple losses, correct? So let's examine a bit further:
First, why do you get upset from a loss at all? This is your core problem, if losing had no negative impact on you then you would not lead to rage at all. So the true issue here is your outlook. You want to win, you want to succeed, and you think you deserved so in that last game. However that's not the correct outlook, "More GG, more skill" as White-Ra would say; Try looking at the positives of losing. You can analyze and see why you lost, every loss is a guide to get improve.
Always say GG, even if he cheesed you; Then ask what you could have done better in that game and you might learn something extra if you're polite.
Moving onwards though if that approach doesn't seem up your alley; There's always the simple no-brainer solution: Whenever you lose a game (Or at most 2 in a row) then take a break. Go watch a TV show, get some food, play with your kitten or puppy, stretch, etc.. It should help a lot.
Lastly now I would look at other things just in case. Perhaps losing in SC2 isn't what turns you into a furious person; Perhaps it is merely the catalyst. You may want to review other aspects of your life and how you feel about them. (IE: Relationship status, work status, family status, friend status, financial status, health status, etc..) That could all make you feel more stressed and a greater need to 'prove yourself' by winning games (And getting angry at repeated losses).
Well I don't think this post will get read anyways seeing as this is Page 17 already, but I hope I helped you or whomever read this at least a little bit if someone did at all read it. Good luck with your future. ^_^
If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
100% agreed.
Anyway, have you seen "The Greatest Game"? (Golf movie, Shia ?LeBeouf?)?
I recommend.
Finally, what general area do you live in- about driving. This can lead to a therapeutic vent possibility, so... I'm not being a creeper, I doth swear. My location is all over TL anyway.
I think frustration and anger ultimately come from disappointment in one's overall results.
I used to play poker for a living, and I would usually have no rage, even if I got one-outed for a $1000 pot. Sometimes I would start to rage if I was in the middle of a bad run, but otherwise, I would have no problem with losing individual hands. This is because my hard work had paid off. I knew I was a profitable player in the long run.
On the other hand, I rage often and pretty hard in SC2. And it's directly proportional to how hard I try to get better, as well. The reason why? I suck. Given how much time and effort I've put into the game, I feel like I should be better than I am. I'm halfway through Malcolm Gladwell's bullshit 10,000 hours hypothesis, and I've only gotten worse. I've been ramming my head against a wall for years with this game. So I rage when I play it, out of frustration at my effort not giving any dividends. People that play 1/5 of the amount of time are better than I are. I am fucking terrible.
But I'm too stubborn to stop. There are some things I'm not stubborn about. But the things that I am...I can never stop until I am satisfied. This trait is the only reason I've ever gotten good at anything. But the problem is, it also means I will waste my time sucking at something forever. But I can't help it. I want to get better. I can't stop now.
I guess what I'm saying is that rage is a matter of disappointment in one's self. And if you're as stubborn as I am, I don't think there is any solution to it.
Well, I can only tell you what I have found out for myself, as I do a lot of contemplation on these subjects. I sincerely hope the following helps you, as it has helped me.
I would recommend you take a break from StarCraft for now, as it seems to be doing more harm than good for you at the moment.
The first thing you have to understand, is that you are living in your own story. We humans have a tendency to act like this is not the case, but it is plain to see. If you put two different people in front of the same stimulus they have a different reaction. Does seeing a score screen come up have any intrinsic meaning outside of the reality you create in your head?
It's important to understand this, because in reality nobody ever lost to anyone.Winning and losing happens by mutual agreement, when both parties both agree to play certain roles (like stage characters) in response to an arbitrary stimulus, in this case, an arrangement of pixels on a screen. When the score screen comes up, one party is allowed to feel good, and the other is supposed to feel bad.
With me so far? Alright. The problem is, we were programmed since children to feel these emotions, so when the stimulus happens, we have little to no control over what we feel, because we have trained the response to be automatic through thousands of repetitions.
So we go through life thinking it is exterior reality that determines out emotions, because we have set up a complex system of emotional triggers in our head which dictate how we feel. But on close observation, you realize that feelings never happen to you, it's you who create them. If someone thinks he has won a set due to a miscommunication at GSL, he explodes into joy. But if you tell him he has lost, he feels awful. But then you can tell him you were just joking and he really did win, and he feels great again. Then the management intervenes and confirms the disqualification. See what I mean?
So back to your gaming. It is clear to see that it's not the game that makes you mad, it is your identification with your play. It's the story you tell yourself about the game. Anger is a natural survival response, if that keyboard were actually an attacking wild animal, it would be dead as sh** right now, so you can take some comfort in that. But you are not playing for your life, you are in no actual danger.
Matching wits with someone in StarCraft is great fun, but you'll have to start telling yourself a different story. When we play a faceless player, our minds tend to project qualities onto them. For a lot of people, their first instinct is to make him an enemy. Just his portrait looks smug. His probe blocking of your expansion feels like a personal attack on you. His pre-emptive gg is a further slap in the face. But what if you were really playing a super cool Master's level grandma who was unaccustomed to "gg etiquette" or perhaps a 13 year old girl dying of cancer, enjoying her remaining days playing StarCraft from the hospital?
So you see, what you see as exterior reality, real losses, real enemies, isn't there at all once you stop creating it. Why take it personally, when everyone is creating their own story out of thin air? The most "successful" people don't ever use the stories created for them, they make up their own, and find a way to create a market out of thin air, or live their dream despite everyone telling them they'll never make it, or just smile a lot. We share a common reality, but the meaning is something we tack on ourselves. It's like everyone is talking but nobody understands each other, all we can hear is our own voice. If we could understand each other, on a deep level, would we still hate each other, or ourselves?
Maybe the above post is not what the internet in general likes to hear, but if we're going to pull the weed up by its roots, there it is. I hope some people can read this and perhaps decide to make StarCraft something fun instead of something miserable, because everything I've said applies to everyone's brown-colored glasses when it comes to StarCraft, balance QQ, or just general life stuff.
Perhaps I have said too much already!
EDIT: Of course I'm not some superhuman who is immune to emotions, but when you get in touch with facts, it is just common sense to not hold on to the anger, or hurt yourself or others. It's more something the brain learns than something you learn, if that makes sense.
On May 11 2013 15:09 trias_e wrote: I think frustration and anger ultimately come from disappointment in one's overall results.
I used to play poker for a living, and I would usually have no rage, even if I got one-outed for a $1000 pot. Sometimes I would start to rage if I was in the middle of a bad run, but otherwise, I would have no problem with losing individual hands. This is because my hard work had paid off. I knew I was a profitable player in the long run.
On the other hand, I rage often and pretty hard in SC2. And it's directly proportional to how hard I try to get better, as well. The reason why? I suck. Given how much time and effort I've put into the game, I feel like I should be better than I am. I'm halfway through Malcolm Gladwell's bullshit 10,000 hours hypothesis, and I've only gotten worse. I've been ramming my head against a wall for years with this game. So I rage when I play it, out of frustration at my effort not giving any dividends. People that play 1/5 of the amount of time are better than I are. I am fucking terrible.
But I'm too stubborn to stop. There are some things I'm not stubborn about. But the things that I am...I can never stop until I am satisfied. This trait is the only reason I've ever gotten good at anything. But the problem is, it also means I will waste my time sucking at something forever. But I can't help it. I want to get better. I can't stop now.
I guess what I'm saying is that rage is a matter of disappointment in one's self. And if you're as stubborn as I am, I don't think there is any solution to it.
I am the same way my friend. I think some of us are just wired this way. Blessing and a curse...
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
What are you talking about? So many people in this thread are so out of touch... treating this guy like he has some personality disorder and needs a psychiatrist or a 12 step program or something ridiculous to handle his anger. Do you not think he would rage less on camera? I think he would. What are you talking about cameras in the car? This sounded horribly confusing/incoherent and not related to what we're talking about. Go back to the idra thread and feed him your nonsense about getting in touch with his inner self to discover the root of his anger, ok? Best of luck to you
Also, I'm kind of assuming that none of us actually know this guy well enough to be sure what his best way of handling his nerd rage (I mean that in a good way, being a fellow sc2 <3er) would be. So don't be such a condescending know-it-all.
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
What are you talking about? So many people in this thread are so out of touch... treating this guy like he has some debilitating personality disorder (evidenced by "Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.") and needs a psychiatrist or a 12 step program or something ridiculous to handle his anger. Do you not think he would rage less on camera? I think he would. What are you talking about cameras in the car? This sounded horribly confusing/incoherent and not related to what we're talking about. Go back to the idra thread and feed him your nonsense about getting in touch with his inner self to discover the root of his anger, ok? Best of luck to you
What do you propose then exactly?
Personality disorder probably not, debilitating yes. Behaviour like the OP discussed is clearly impacting on his life, otherwise he wouldn't have made the thread in the first place and been so active in interacting with others within it.
He does say debilitating in the OP... so I guess I concede that. I used the term vaguely... semantics are annoying. Still, he sounds like a generally well adjusted and successful person, and everyone here is treating him like he has a deep seeded personality disorder. The measures people suggest for such an individual sound ludicrous to me.
On May 11 2013 16:52 VasHeR wrote: He does say debilitating in the OP... so I guess I concede that. I used the term vaguely... semantics are annoying. Still, he sounds like a generally well adjusted and successful person, and everyone here is treating him like he has a deep seeded personality disorder. The measures people suggest for such an individual sound ludicrous to me.
Let me clarify the "debilitation."
In that moment, when I'm actually raging, I'm debilitated. I'm not capable of functioning like a human being should because I'm seething so hard. That part doesn't last for too terribly long (maybe a few minutes). The residual anger lasts for a bit longer than that. However, it's not as if my life is impacted by this daily.
To be fair, this is the internet, and I knew going into this that there would be several if not many people who would tell me I'm schizophrenic, psychotic, have a split personality, or various other armchair psychological evaluations. Again, everyone is welcomed to their opinion, but you'll just have to take my word for it that those things simply aren't part of the equation. I've studied enough psychology, and lived my life long enough to know what triggers what in my life, and I know that SC2 (or something related to SC2) is what the root of it is. I do appreciate the opinions, however. <3
On May 11 2013 13:22 Valestrum wrote: You sound like an intelligent person, I believe you already know the answer or have the means of answering this for yourself. The issue is you get angry after multiple losses, correct? So let's examine a bit further:
First, why do you get upset from a loss at all? This is your core problem, if losing had no negative impact on you then you would not lead to rage at all. So the true issue here is your outlook. You want to win, you want to succeed, and you think you deserved so in that last game. However that's not the correct outlook, "More GG, more skill" as White-Ra would say; Try looking at the positives of losing. You can analyze and see why you lost, every loss is a guide to get improve.
Always say GG, even if he cheesed you; Then ask what you could have done better in that game and you might learn something extra if you're polite.
Moving onwards though if that approach doesn't seem up your alley; There's always the simple no-brainer solution: Whenever you lose a game (Or at most 2 in a row) then take a break. Go watch a TV show, get some food, play with your kitten or puppy, stretch, etc.. It should help a lot.
Lastly now I would look at other things just in case. Perhaps losing in SC2 isn't what turns you into a furious person; Perhaps it is merely the catalyst. You may want to review other aspects of your life and how you feel about them. (IE: Relationship status, work status, family status, friend status, financial status, health status, etc..) That could all make you feel more stressed and a greater need to 'prove yourself' by winning games (And getting angry at repeated losses).
Well I don't think this post will get read anyways seeing as this is Page 17 already, but I hope I helped you or whomever read this at least a little bit if someone did at all read it. Good luck with your future. ^_^
Oh not to worry, I'm still reading!
I'm attempting to change my outlook to one that is more similar to the one you described, and so far (in the early going) so good. Looking at each game as less of a win or loss, and more as an example of the things I do well and poorly makes things a bit easier to evaluate logically.
On May 11 2013 15:09 trias_e wrote: I think frustration and anger ultimately come from disappointment in one's overall results.
I used to play poker for a living, and I would usually have no rage, even if I got one-outed for a $1000 pot. Sometimes I would start to rage if I was in the middle of a bad run, but otherwise, I would have no problem with losing individual hands. This is because my hard work had paid off. I knew I was a profitable player in the long run.
On the other hand, I rage often and pretty hard in SC2. And it's directly proportional to how hard I try to get better, as well. The reason why? I suck. Given how much time and effort I've put into the game, I feel like I should be better than I am. I'm halfway through Malcolm Gladwell's bullshit 10,000 hours hypothesis, and I've only gotten worse. I've been ramming my head against a wall for years with this game. So I rage when I play it, out of frustration at my effort not giving any dividends. People that play 1/5 of the amount of time are better than I are. I am fucking terrible.
But I'm too stubborn to stop. There are some things I'm not stubborn about. But the things that I am...I can never stop until I am satisfied. This trait is the only reason I've ever gotten good at anything. But the problem is, it also means I will waste my time sucking at something forever. But I can't help it. I want to get better. I can't stop now.
I guess what I'm saying is that rage is a matter of disappointment in one's self. And if you're as stubborn as I am, I don't think there is any solution to it.
I am the same way my friend. I think some of us are just wired this way. Blessing and a curse...
If you feel that competitive gaming is an important enough part of your life to merit the time and expense of dealing with your issues, you should find a psychotherapist. It may be better to go with a younger psychologist, but it is unlikely that almost any therapist will immediately understand how much gaming is important to you and how it can provoke such strong behavior. However, if you take the time to explain, a good therapist should be able to help.
On May 11 2013 15:43 Vlade wrote: Well, I can only tell you what I have found out for myself, as I do a lot of contemplation on these subjects. I sincerely hope the following helps you, as it has helped me.
I would recommend you take a break from StarCraft for now, as it seems to be doing more harm than good for you at the moment.
The first thing you have to understand, is that you are living in your own story. We humans have a tendency to act like this is not the case, but it is plain to see. If you put two different people in front of the same stimulus they have a different reaction. Does seeing a score screen come up have any intrinsic meaning outside of the reality you create in your head?
It's important to understand this, because in reality nobody ever lost to anyone.Winning and losing happens by mutual agreement, when both parties both agree to play certain roles (like stage characters) in response to an arbitrary stimulus, in this case, an arrangement of pixels on a screen. When the score screen comes up, one party is allowed to feel good, and the other is supposed to feel bad.
With me so far? Alright. The problem is, we were programmed since children to feel these emotions, so when the stimulus happens, we have little to no control over what we feel, because we have trained the response to be automatic through thousands of repetitions.
So we go through life thinking it is exterior reality that determines out emotions, because we have set up a complex system of emotional triggers in our head which dictate how we feel. But on close observation, you realize that feelings never happen to you, it's you who create them. If someone thinks he has won a set due to a miscommunication at GSL, he explodes into joy. But if you tell him he has lost, he feels awful. But then you can tell him you were just joking and he really did win, and he feels great again. Then the management intervenes and confirms the disqualification. See what I mean?
So back to your gaming. It is clear to see that it's not the game that makes you mad, it is your identification with your play. It's the story you tell yourself about the game. Anger is a natural survival response, if that keyboard were actually an attacking wild animal, it would be dead as sh** right now, so you can take some comfort in that. But you are not playing for your life, you are in no actual danger.
Matching wits with someone in StarCraft is great fun, but you'll have to start telling yourself a different story. When we play a faceless player, our minds tend to project qualities onto them. For a lot of people, their first instinct is to make him an enemy. Just his portrait looks smug. His probe blocking of your expansion feels like a personal attack on you. His pre-emptive gg is a further slap in the face. But what if you were really playing a super cool Master's level grandma who was unaccustomed to "gg etiquette" or perhaps a 13 year old girl dying of cancer, enjoying her remaining days playing StarCraft from the hospital?
So you see, what you see as exterior reality, real losses, real enemies, isn't there at all once you stop creating it. Why take it personally, when everyone is creating their own story out of thin air? The most "successful" people don't ever use the stories created for them, they make up their own, and find a way to create a market out of thin air, or live their dream despite everyone telling them they'll never make it, or just smile a lot. We share a common reality, but the meaning is something we tack on ourselves. It's like everyone is talking but nobody understands each other, all we can hear is our own voice. If we could understand each other, on a deep level, would we still hate each other, or ourselves?
Maybe the above post is not what the internet in general likes to hear, but if we're going to pull the weed up by its roots, there it is. I hope some people can read this and perhaps decide to make StarCraft something fun instead of something miserable, because everything I've said applies to everyone's brown-colored glasses when it comes to StarCraft, balance QQ, or just general life stuff.
Perhaps I have said too much already!
EDIT: Of course I'm not some superhuman who is immune to emotions, but when you get in touch with facts, it is just common sense to not hold on to the anger, or hurt yourself or others. It's more something the brain learns than something you learn, if that makes sense.
This is a unique take I hadn't considered, though I'm not sure the societal expectations for what winning and losing mean are something that I can rewire my brain to care less about at this point. Still, the idea that none of this is really "real" is interesting, and I do like the frame of mind behind writing your own story. Ironically, that's a value that I've tried to live other aspects of my life by following.
I do think one very important thing that this entire process has taught me is that anger may not be a learned response, but how you manage it is. I didn't always used to do this, but somewhere along the line it became "normal" for me to do. Realizing that has also helped.
On May 11 2013 17:07 noachr wrote: If you feel that competitive gaming is an important enough part of your life to merit the time and expense of dealing with your issues, you should find a psychotherapist. It may be better to go with a younger psychologist, but it is unlikely that almost any therapist will immediately understand how much gaming is important to you and how it can provoke such strong behavior. However, if you take the time to explain, a good therapist should be able to help.
I figure I may as well respond to this suggestion to find a therapist, though really it's a response to all of them.
As of right now, I feel as though I'm making progress. If I feel like that progress begins to cease before the problem is under control, I'll consider therapy. For now though, I'd like to see what I can do about it on my own. I've always been a bit independent.
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
100% agreed.
Anyway, have you seen "The Greatest Game"? (Golf movie, Shia ?LeBeouf?)?
I recommend.
Finally, what general area do you live in- about driving. This can lead to a therapeutic vent possibility, so... I'm not being a creeper, I doth swear. My location is all over TL anyway.
I have not.
And without getting too specific, I live in central Texas.
Incidentally, I've had *many* pms from players voicing the same problem I have, and even run into people on the ladder who have mentioned this thread and wished me well. I'm glad this thread has been helpful to more players than just me, and it's nice to know that there are others (and many others, apparently!) who are in a similar boat.
Good on you, Team Liquid. Just creating, reading, and responding in this thread has really given me a better mindset for starcraft, at least for the time being. Hopefully it continues!
The huge thing for me is, always go INTO the game with the right attitude. Decide you're going to be nice, and your mindset will be a blessing. Trust me, I had the EXACT same problem.
On May 11 2013 16:52 VasHeR wrote: He does say debilitating in the OP... so I guess I concede that. I used the term vaguely... semantics are annoying. Still, he sounds like a generally well adjusted and successful person, and everyone here is treating him like he has a deep seeded personality disorder. The measures people suggest for such an individual sound ludicrous to me.
Let me clarify the "debilitation."
In that moment, when I'm actually raging, I'm debilitated. I'm not capable of functioning like a human being should because I'm seething so hard. That part doesn't last for too terribly long (maybe a few minutes). The residual anger lasts for a bit longer than that. However, it's not as if my life is impacted by this daily.
To be fair, this is the internet, and I knew going into this that there would be several if not many people who would tell me I'm schizophrenic, psychotic, have a split personality, or various other armchair psychological evaluations. Again, everyone is welcomed to their opinion, but you'll just have to take my word for it that those things simply aren't part of the equation. I've studied enough psychology, and lived my life long enough to know what triggers what in my life, and I know that SC2 (or something related to SC2) is what the root of it is. I do appreciate the opinions, however. <3
A key piece of information missing, I think, is how much etc (how many days per week, games per session, how many losses until you're really raging, how some wins may offset it....). Did you even say what league you're in? It's kinda hard to assess the situation. Without all info I might need, I'm just doin the best I can here, but here's another suggestion... Short version: It sounds like you haven't lost (played) enough. Go lose more, almost intentionally Long version: I'm upper-mid masters, and I still am way more concerned with improving my overall level of play than I am with wins/losses. There is so much to learn and practice in sc2. Go try ridiculous strategies and tactics, and s&t's that you rarely use even when you know it is likely to make you lose. I used to go 1 base collosus all-ins every pvp I played. Then I saw some pros doing speed prism immortal drops while expanding and it looked fun. So I did that for a bunch of games and lost a lot. In fact, the first time I did it, I lost my warp prism and the 2 immortals in it because I confused the hotkey for unloading units with the war3 hotkey. I've tested out so many different ways of doing a forge first, or early 2 gate pressure (not all-in, more like Co**atEx style), and it's very important to learn little things like pylon positioning and scouting patterns. I get really mad when I lose without learning from it. There have been games when I felt like I played a really solid game and was never outmaneuvered, but I still lost. Then I go through the replay and see things like 'I could have taken my 4th base sooner, I should have transferred probes sooner, I was banking too much money, I needed more gateways, I should have just retreated back to my base after I took out that expo, etc...' If there truly was nothing wrong with your play, then my hat is off to you, Nestea. Also, grandmasters still lose to 6pools and proxy gates on a daily basis. So you will always be able to direct some measure of your anger at Blizzard.
On May 11 2013 17:22 GhandiEAGLE wrote: The huge thing for me is, always go INTO the game with the right attitude. Decide you're going to be nice, and your mindset will be a blessing. Trust me, I had the EXACT same problem.
I feel alot less save right now if there are more people who drive like TS when they lose a game of SC2
On May 11 2013 17:14 Lauriel wrote: Incidentally, I've had *many* pms from players voicing the same problem I have, and even run into people on the ladder who have mentioned this thread and wished me well. I'm glad this thread has been helpful to more players than just me, and it's nice to know that there are others (and many others, apparently!) who are in a similar boat.
Good on you, Team Liquid. Just creating, reading, and responding in this thread has really given me a better mindset for starcraft, at least for the time being. Hopefully it continues!
Just please get real help when it doesn't continue! Raging in your appartment and smashing your own stuff is far from healthy and enough reason you should see a professional, but if you continue like what you describe in your first post you will one day seriously hurt someone by reckless driving, and then it is not only too late for you to do something about it, it is especially too late for your victim.
My apologies, this is a long thread, and I haven't read all of the posts, but I covered the first 10 as best I could for the time being. Many of these have been mentioned at some point prior, but this has basically been my own path for coping with anger.
Firstly, learning to recognize when you get angry, and using that to mitigate the circumstances you leave yourself in. If you're angry in situations where you're losing and you feel it's from not being able to practice the style you're looking for, it can described as similar to a gambler losing most of their bank and feeling they need to continue to recover the losses. If I flip a coin 5 times and it always comes up tails, folks become certain the next flip will be heads; because it's about time for it to not be tails, it's about time that you'll hit that big win, it's about time that you'll hit somebody you'll stomp with that strategy. Learn to recognize beforehand when it’s time to think about walking away.
Second, work to stop manifesting anger. By providing an outlet that makes you feel good for manifesting angry behaviors (hitting things, screaming), you provide yourself with rewards for being angry. It'll only lead to more anger. There have been some studies on this… I recall one involving ‘spiking’ a drink with a distasteful substance. They created a situation to frustrate the subjects, then asked one group to hit a pillow and the other group could not. The subjects then were able to add the substance to a drink that would be served to the one that angered them. The group hitting the pillows added more. I think the suggestions of exercise is a good one, as you can/will associate the positive feeling of using your pent up energy more with the exercise than anger, while still allowing you to deal with adrenaline surge. If you focus on doing an exercise correctly and perfecting form, it will help remove your focus from exclusively on the loss, and you may find yourself calming more quickly when you aren’t dwelling on the issue. This is basically the “count to 10” method when dealing with anger.
Lastly, try to approach the situation from another angle once you’ve calmed down. I’ve found my own moments of post-anger coping have led to feeling more logical and empathetic overall. Work on identifying what exactly it was that was angering you (not being able to practice in the style you wanted), and either work towards other methods than can help you accomplish that end (practice partners), or come up with your plan B when plan A becomes not an option. This is basically doing the same as a post-game analysis. Try to associate the loss with the situation or action instead of internalizing it as a failure of your own. This is less finger-pointing (it’s THEIR fault) than it is problem solving what is under your control. I think analyzing in this way is where you are before you eventually make a decision that you have to stop doing something entirely.
I think any type of professional help will help the most with the first and last items. My mindset is similar to yours in that it’s the last option for me. I simply don’t like the idea of exposing myself on a regular basis to somebody I’m paying to listen to me. It feels like the farthest thing from being genuine. And forget medications I would no doubt be prescribed. Often times being able to vent a situation will help, even with no actionable response from who you’re talking to.
I’ll provide an example of how this works through in my own head. For myself, I typically found myself angry when stuck in situations I felt I had no escape from. So I typically drive myself to and from events alone. Recently I attended a family event, and carpooled with a sibling to save my own gas. When I was ready to go home to sleep, they weren’t. I was pretty livid about it. I ended up whining about it for about 5 minutes, then got myself to focus on something else. I think in this case it was how the basic units of starcraft interact with each other to create a balance, and if that balance could be shown mathematically. How could that be proven, and what would I have to do to quantize something even as trivial as vision? What are the best methods to compare the speed of something that isn’t affected by obstacles vs something that is (or, how to quantize flight and special movement modes)? I have to face the fact I’m a nerd and focusing on a logical problem is more appealing to me than exercise. In the end, they thought I was angrier during the 40 minute drive home at 2 am and refused to talk to them (I had been starting work at 6 am this particular week, I was tired as hell, and I’ll admit I get short with folks when I’m tired). Later on, I found the situation was as simple as they hadn’t realized my start schedule the week prior, in addition to my parents being wholly unable to communicate a time table that left me at an event I would have otherwise not attended knowing how late I would be there. So I’m learning to let them know when I intend to leave if I travel with them.
15 years ago, and ignoring the fact I was too young to drive at the time, this situation would have likely ended up with my being angered at being forced to attend a family event. Then probably hitting my sibling hard enough to make them double over before putting a crack or hole in one nearby wooden object. And finally my just being pissed for a week at how they wouldn’t let me go home. For me, just having a plan in place of when and how I can leave manages most of my behavior for this regard.
/sorry for the wall, I tried to be thorough with my intents for this.
'Stop caring' is bad advice, albeit it is what he should do, it's finding mechanisms to enable that end goal. Similarly, you don't tend to treat drug addicts by going 'stop taking drugs' and leaving it at that, there's a lot of other help that is often needed for successful outcomes
This happened to me a lot back in the day, but i realised because i dont have the time neither the patience to be a programer, that it doesnt worth to rage. One thing that i did in Heart of the Swarm to calm such anger was to play with random. At the beginning you will be very frustrated, but you will appreciate more (maybe) your gaming time, and also because you know you are not that good with not your main race, you will feel even relax after a game you lose, and even more, you will want to play more. Also matches with your main race will be easier and you will learn more things about the other races and you will enjoy more the different matchups.
i try it since aehhh well i am 27 too so i think since EVER ... i didnt manage to do i am so bad at loosing that i even STOPED played completly sc2 for ever a year just because i felt so horrible just flame and get mad to myself even after a stupid lose where i exactly know why etc ...
if you find out how to turn that off, tell me
edit: always when i meet white-ra he tells me "just calm down and paly its fun u learn etc" ... i am so impressed he can do it but it just not helps so telling someone will not change anything i think its mental xD
On May 11 2013 16:52 VasHeR wrote: He does say debilitating in the OP... so I guess I concede that. I used the term vaguely... semantics are annoying. Still, he sounds like a generally well adjusted and successful person, and everyone here is treating him like he has a deep seeded personality disorder. The measures people suggest for such an individual sound ludicrous to me.
Let me clarify the "debilitation."
In that moment, when I'm actually raging, I'm debilitated. I'm not capable of functioning like a human being should because I'm seething so hard. That part doesn't last for too terribly long (maybe a few minutes). The residual anger lasts for a bit longer than that. However, it's not as if my life is impacted by this daily.
To be fair, this is the internet, and I knew going into this that there would be several if not many people who would tell me I'm schizophrenic, psychotic, have a split personality, or various other armchair psychological evaluations. Again, everyone is welcomed to their opinion, but you'll just have to take my word for it that those things simply aren't part of the equation. I've studied enough psychology, and lived my life long enough to know what triggers what in my life, and I know that SC2 (or something related to SC2) is what the root of it is. I do appreciate the opinions, however. <3
A key piece of information missing, I think, is how much etc (how many days per week, games per session, how many losses until you're really raging, how some wins may offset it....). Did you even say what league you're in? It's kinda hard to assess the situation. Without all info I might need, I'm just doin the best I can here, but here's another suggestion... Short version: It sounds like you haven't lost (played) enough. Go lose more, almost intentionally Long version: I'm upper-mid masters, and I still am way more concerned with improving my overall level of play than I am with wins/losses. There is so much to learn and practice in sc2. Go try ridiculous strategies and tactics, and s&t's that you rarely use even when you know it is likely to make you lose. I used to go 1 base collosus all-ins every pvp I played. Then I saw some pros doing speed prism immortal drops while expanding and it looked fun. So I did that for a bunch of games and lost a lot. In fact, the first time I did it, I lost my warp prism and the 2 immortals in it because I confused the hotkey for unloading units with the war3 hotkey. I've tested out so many different ways of doing a forge first, or early 2 gate pressure (not all-in, more like Co**atEx style), and it's very important to learn little things like pylon positioning and scouting patterns. I get really mad when I lose without learning from it. There have been games when I felt like I played a really solid game and was never outmaneuvered, but I still lost. Then I go through the replay and see things like 'I could have taken my 4th base sooner, I should have transferred probes sooner, I was banking too much money, I needed more gateways, I should have just retreated back to my base after I took out that expo, etc...' If there truly was nothing wrong with your play, then my hat is off to you, Nestea. Also, grandmasters still lose to 6pools and proxy gates on a daily basis. So you will always be able to direct some measure of your anger at Blizzard.
I'm a low-mid masters player with about 5200 games under my belt.
The number of losses that it takes seems to depend, though if you asked me what the determining factors were/are I couldn't tell you. Any sustained losing streak though could potentially be enough to get me pretty angry. I'd say 5 is a good number.
On May 11 2013 17:41 Nublakhan wrote: My apologies, this is a long thread, and I haven't read all of the posts, but I covered the first 10 as best I could for the time being. Many of these have been mentioned at some point prior, but this has basically been my own path for coping with anger.
Firstly, learning to recognize when you get angry, and using that to mitigate the circumstances you leave yourself in. If you're angry in situations where you're losing and you feel it's from not being able to practice the style you're looking for, it can described as similar to a gambler losing most of their bank and feeling they need to continue to recover the losses. If I flip a coin 5 times and it always comes up tails, folks become certain the next flip will be heads; because it's about time for it to not be tails, it's about time that you'll hit that big win, it's about time that you'll hit somebody you'll stomp with that strategy. Learn to recognize beforehand when it’s time to think about walking away.
Second, work to stop manifesting anger. By providing an outlet that makes you feel good for manifesting angry behaviors (hitting things, screaming), you provide yourself with rewards for being angry. It'll only lead to more anger. There have been some studies on this… I recall one involving ‘spiking’ a drink with a distasteful substance. They created a situation to frustrate the subjects, then asked one group to hit a pillow and the other group could not. The subjects then were able to add the substance to a drink that would be served to the one that angered them. The group hitting the pillows added more. I think the suggestions of exercise is a good one, as you can/will associate the positive feeling of using your pent up energy more with the exercise than anger, while still allowing you to deal with adrenaline surge. If you focus on doing an exercise correctly and perfecting form, it will help remove your focus from exclusively on the loss, and you may find yourself calming more quickly when you aren’t dwelling on the issue. This is basically the “count to 10” method when dealing with anger.
Lastly, try to approach the situation from another angle once you’ve calmed down. I’ve found my own moments of post-anger coping have led to feeling more logical and empathetic overall. Work on identifying what exactly it was that was angering you (not being able to practice in the style you wanted), and either work towards other methods than can help you accomplish that end (practice partners), or come up with your plan B when plan A becomes not an option. This is basically doing the same as a post-game analysis. Try to associate the loss with the situation or action instead of internalizing it as a failure of your own. This is less finger-pointing (it’s THEIR fault) than it is problem solving what is under your control. I think analyzing in this way is where you are before you eventually make a decision that you have to stop doing something entirely.
I think any type of professional help will help the most with the first and last items. My mindset is similar to yours in that it’s the last option for me. I simply don’t like the idea of exposing myself on a regular basis to somebody I’m paying to listen to me. It feels like the farthest thing from being genuine. And forget medications I would no doubt be prescribed. Often times being able to vent a situation will help, even with no actionable response from who you’re talking to.
I’ll provide an example of how this works through in my own head. For myself, I typically found myself angry when stuck in situations I felt I had no escape from. So I typically drive myself to and from events alone. Recently I attended a family event, and carpooled with a sibling to save my own gas. When I was ready to go home to sleep, they weren’t. I was pretty livid about it. I ended up whining about it for about 5 minutes, then got myself to focus on something else. I think in this case it was how the basic units of starcraft interact with each other to create a balance, and if that balance could be shown mathematically. How could that be proven, and what would I have to do to quantize something even as trivial as vision? What are the best methods to compare the speed of something that isn’t affected by obstacles vs something that is (or, how to quantize flight and special movement modes)? I have to face the fact I’m a nerd and focusing on a logical problem is more appealing to me than exercise. In the end, they thought I was angrier during the 40 minute drive home at 2 am and refused to talk to them (I had been starting work at 6 am this particular week, I was tired as hell, and I’ll admit I get short with folks when I’m tired). Later on, I found the situation was as simple as they hadn’t realized my start schedule the week prior, in addition to my parents being wholly unable to communicate a time table that left me at an event I would have otherwise not attended knowing how late I would be there. So I’m learning to let them know when I intend to leave if I travel with them.
15 years ago, and ignoring the fact I was too young to drive at the time, this situation would have likely ended up with my being angered at being forced to attend a family event. Then probably hitting my sibling hard enough to make them double over before putting a crack or hole in one nearby wooden object. And finally my just being pissed for a week at how they wouldn’t let me go home. For me, just having a plan in place of when and how I can leave manages most of my behavior for this regard.
/sorry for the wall, I tried to be thorough with my intents for this.
Your thoughts are appreciated, and I agree with your reasons why therapy is not a good option, at least at this juncture. I feel very similarly.
I do think that anger tends to spiral into more anger, as you mentioned in your post. Taking the idea of "failure" out of losing and looking at games more analytically is something that I think will help with my overall approach the the game and managing the emotional aspects that come with playing something that is as unforgiving and challenging as SC2 is.
On May 11 2013 17:50 Wombat_NI wrote: 'Stop caring' is bad advice, albeit it is what he should do, it's finding mechanisms to enable that end goal. Similarly, you don't tend to treat drug addicts by going 'stop taking drugs' and leaving it at that, there's a lot of other help that is often needed for successful outcomes
being addicted to chemicals and not being able to cope with losing are 2 completly diffrent things imo.
On May 11 2013 17:50 Wombat_NI wrote: 'Stop caring' is bad advice, albeit it is what he should do, it's finding mechanisms to enable that end goal. Similarly, you don't tend to treat drug addicts by going 'stop taking drugs' and leaving it at that, there's a lot of other help that is often needed for successful outcomes
being addicted to chemicals and not being able to cope with losing are 2 completly diffrent things imo.
Was just an example of another issue where the solution isn't to just go 'don't do it', that's all.
On May 11 2013 16:52 VasHeR wrote: He does say debilitating in the OP... so I guess I concede that. I used the term vaguely... semantics are annoying. Still, he sounds like a generally well adjusted and successful person, and everyone here is treating him like he has a deep seeded personality disorder. The measures people suggest for such an individual sound ludicrous to me.
Let me clarify the "debilitation."
In that moment, when I'm actually raging, I'm debilitated. I'm not capable of functioning like a human being should because I'm seething so hard. That part doesn't last for too terribly long (maybe a few minutes). The residual anger lasts for a bit longer than that. However, it's not as if my life is impacted by this daily.
To be fair, this is the internet, and I knew going into this that there would be several if not many people who would tell me I'm schizophrenic, psychotic, have a split personality, or various other armchair psychological evaluations. Again, everyone is welcomed to their opinion, but you'll just have to take my word for it that those things simply aren't part of the equation. I've studied enough psychology, and lived my life long enough to know what triggers what in my life, and I know that SC2 (or something related to SC2) is what the root of it is. I do appreciate the opinions, however. <3
A key piece of information missing, I think, is how much etc (how many days per week, games per session, how many losses until you're really raging, how some wins may offset it....). Did you even say what league you're in? It's kinda hard to assess the situation. Without all info I might need, I'm just doin the best I can here, but here's another suggestion... Short version: It sounds like you haven't lost (played) enough. Go lose more, almost intentionally Long version: I'm upper-mid masters, and I still am way more concerned with improving my overall level of play than I am with wins/losses. There is so much to learn and practice in sc2. Go try ridiculous strategies and tactics, and s&t's that you rarely use even when you know it is likely to make you lose. I used to go 1 base collosus all-ins every pvp I played. Then I saw some pros doing speed prism immortal drops while expanding and it looked fun. So I did that for a bunch of games and lost a lot. In fact, the first time I did it, I lost my warp prism and the 2 immortals in it because I confused the hotkey for unloading units with the war3 hotkey. I've tested out so many different ways of doing a forge first, or early 2 gate pressure (not all-in, more like Co**atEx style), and it's very important to learn little things like pylon positioning and scouting patterns. I get really mad when I lose without learning from it. There have been games when I felt like I played a really solid game and was never outmaneuvered, but I still lost. Then I go through the replay and see things like 'I could have taken my 4th base sooner, I should have transferred probes sooner, I was banking too much money, I needed more gateways, I should have just retreated back to my base after I took out that expo, etc...' If there truly was nothing wrong with your play, then my hat is off to you, Nestea. Also, grandmasters still lose to 6pools and proxy gates on a daily basis. So you will always be able to direct some measure of your anger at Blizzard.
I'm a low-mid masters player with about 5200 games under my belt.
The number of losses that it takes seems to depend, though if you asked me what the determining factors were/are I couldn't tell you. Any sustained losing streak though could potentially be enough to get me pretty angry. I'd say 5 is a good number.
Get practice partner(s) and train only one matchup way more than the others. It's probably best to start by practicing cgs against only that one specific race for two weeks before you even begin using practice partners in the other races. You should naturally be less streaky by having one matchup that you are much better at than the others. However, if you train a lot to make vs toss ur awesome matchup, and then you match a bunch of toss consecutively in ladder and lose to all of them, you might wanna take some deep breaths or something.
First off, hats off to you for coming out and asking for help! Not exactly an easy thing to admit to or talk about. Few idea's that may help you:
1) Take a break from sc2, play a more casual/relaxed game for a bit. (Queue controversy: I went and played LoL after getting fed up of ladder anxiety, quite fun to play, but as you get better in ranked you end up losing a lot due to bad team mates )
2) When you go back to sc2, record yourself, then later watch yourself explode on the vid. Imagine you doing that in a public place or around friends. Might help in putting you off exploding/rethinking how you handle your anger.
4) If all else fails, count out loud slowly to 60 (or some other high number). While doing that don't do anything else. With any luck your rage explosion should have calmed down by then. Might need some practice for this >.>
Hope this helps you, and for fuck sake don't drive when you're pissed off
On May 11 2013 16:52 VasHeR wrote: He does say debilitating in the OP... so I guess I concede that. I used the term vaguely... semantics are annoying. Still, he sounds like a generally well adjusted and successful person, and everyone here is treating him like he has a deep seeded personality disorder. The measures people suggest for such an individual sound ludicrous to me.
Let me clarify the "debilitation."
In that moment, when I'm actually raging, I'm debilitated. I'm not capable of functioning like a human being should because I'm seething so hard. That part doesn't last for too terribly long (maybe a few minutes). The residual anger lasts for a bit longer than that. However, it's not as if my life is impacted by this daily.
To be fair, this is the internet, and I knew going into this that there would be several if not many people who would tell me I'm schizophrenic, psychotic, have a split personality, or various other armchair psychological evaluations. Again, everyone is welcomed to their opinion, but you'll just have to take my word for it that those things simply aren't part of the equation. I've studied enough psychology, and lived my life long enough to know what triggers what in my life, and I know that SC2 (or something related to SC2) is what the root of it is. I do appreciate the opinions, however. <3
A key piece of information missing, I think, is how much etc (how many days per week, games per session, how many losses until you're really raging, how some wins may offset it....). Did you even say what league you're in? It's kinda hard to assess the situation. Without all info I might need, I'm just doin the best I can here, but here's another suggestion... Short version: It sounds like you haven't lost (played) enough. Go lose more, almost intentionally Long version: I'm upper-mid masters, and I still am way more concerned with improving my overall level of play than I am with wins/losses. There is so much to learn and practice in sc2. Go try ridiculous strategies and tactics, and s&t's that you rarely use even when you know it is likely to make you lose. I used to go 1 base collosus all-ins every pvp I played. Then I saw some pros doing speed prism immortal drops while expanding and it looked fun. So I did that for a bunch of games and lost a lot. In fact, the first time I did it, I lost my warp prism and the 2 immortals in it because I confused the hotkey for unloading units with the war3 hotkey. I've tested out so many different ways of doing a forge first, or early 2 gate pressure (not all-in, more like Co**atEx style), and it's very important to learn little things like pylon positioning and scouting patterns. I get really mad when I lose without learning from it. There have been games when I felt like I played a really solid game and was never outmaneuvered, but I still lost. Then I go through the replay and see things like 'I could have taken my 4th base sooner, I should have transferred probes sooner, I was banking too much money, I needed more gateways, I should have just retreated back to my base after I took out that expo, etc...' If there truly was nothing wrong with your play, then my hat is off to you, Nestea. Also, grandmasters still lose to 6pools and proxy gates on a daily basis. So you will always be able to direct some measure of your anger at Blizzard.
I'm a low-mid masters player with about 5200 games under my belt.
The number of losses that it takes seems to depend, though if you asked me what the determining factors were/are I couldn't tell you. Any sustained losing streak though could potentially be enough to get me pretty angry. I'd say 5 is a good number.
IF 5 is the magic number. Then at the 4:th loss go do something else. When you are at 100% again play that game and it will not make you rage. If you then find another three losses in a row a problem, then quit at 2 and do something else for 15 minutes. Some situps, take a walk, watch an episode of anime etc.
I get pissed as well, but I stop playing when the first signs show. Means I play fewer games but I only play games I consider fun on some level.
Get a build order that you don't respect. Something so cheesey you hold it in disdain. How could anyone lose to this shit?
Go play it on ladder for a while unranked. You'll get more used to losing without being able to get mad about it, I mean its a fucking dumb build order, right??
Dont play if you cant control your self. Or you could try off racing on ladder a bit, just to lose a bunch and stop giving a fuck (do this when you have a good amount of free time, so that if you do go rage mode you don't have to do anything important) Or get some a punching bag and just throw it on the floor next to your chair where you play, and when you lose and feel the need to rage just jump on that bag and punch it 'till you're breathing heavily. Might work... idk :D
I'm in the Mental Health field, and I think everyone should be in therapy. I seriously don't mean this in any offensive way, but if it's to the point where you're hurting yourself, there's definitely something larger that needs to be worked on.
If that's not an option for you, I suggest taking a deep breath and identifying the triggers and cues to your anger. Think about the types of thoughts you have, and the physiological responses (i.e. sweating, increased heart rate, irritability.) When you reach this point, just stop playing. Doesn't matter if you have to ppp or if you have to leave the game. It's not worth it.
Tell yourself it's not worth it. Make it your mantra.
Perhaps losing at Starcraft is the only outlet for your deep-seated subconscious existential angst. Or maybe you aren't getting laid enough. Or maybe you are getting laid, but it's boring missionary shit and you just need to pull her hair and pound that ass. I have no clue. My point is, you need to figure out what the real issue is before anyone can help you, and only you can tell us what the real problem is.
Don't keep playing after a lost match. Give yourself time, lots of time if need be, to calm down and think about why you lost. Conscious control is the best skill someone can have in any emotional situation.
Remember what the Buddha said:
"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?"
"Certainly not, Lord."
"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'
Get to the reason of the anger/loss and solve it. It's hard, but simple.
Do you have this feeling after a lost game that you have to prove to yourself that you aren't supposed to lose games at all ? I can't quite describe this but I have always have that feeling after a loss, and although I do not rage as hard as you do, I can still recognise a lot of stuff that you are saying. Whenever I lose a game, I queue up that next match as soon as I can, in a way I'm trying to deal with this frustration, this feeling of losing, of being inferior to someone (which for me is hard, and I'd say that that feeling is very hard and painful for you aswell), by showing that I actually am not inferior to people, but better. Doing so will result into you throwing all your frustration into the games that follow up after an initial loss. If you then go on a losing streak - which is very likely to happen if you are frustrated, because you simply play worse - all this frustration will eventually unleash all at once.
I'd say you have to really stop having the habit of playing on after you lose games. At least take a small break and try to do something that takes this anger away. Preferably something peaceful, for me playing the guitar works really well. You could try to do stuff like going for a run (this is a great, healthy but very time consuming way to get rid of the anger) but also doing more aggressive things like actually slamming pillows or something like that. Maybe you could buy a punching bag and just punch that for a couple of minutes before moving on to your next game. I definitely think that you got used to very unhealthy habits of releasing anger, with which you not only damage important things around you, but also yourself. One of the things that works well for me is actually pushing your jaws onto eachother very fiercely. I found that you can put a lot of force into that before actually damaging yourself - if you can actually damage yourself by doing at all.
It's important to recognise when you are stacking frustration by playing multiple games. Sometimes the anger can't go away that easily. I've had times where I was so frustrated with the game, that I literally couldn't touch the game for weeks and was still frustrated about the losses I had every time I thought about them. When you recognise this it might be best to just stop for a little while, a week or something. Maybe try to find another more casual game to spend your time on when you are frustrated.
Hope these few tricks will help you. I don't think that trying to change your mentality about the game is actually going to work, nor would "growing up" help. It's the way you are - you want to be the very best. You can't actually change that aspect of yourself that easily. The painful thing is that you will probably not be the very best at anything you compete at, and sometimes that will induce some rage. It's more about dealing with the rage in ways that don't hurt you, rather than removing the rage altogether.
On May 12 2013 03:09 Purpose88 wrote: Rage is normal. But only retards slam keyboars/gamepads or hurt themself.
So all the OP needed was for someone to call him a retard, and suddenly he recognizes the error of his ways and snaps out of it, becomes a changed man. Perhaps we should start a "Don't be a retard" anti-smoking campaign, or change the grading scale to A, B, C, Half Retarded, Full Retarded.
Some things I've thought about trying, as I have a similar problem (but on vocal, never punching stuff)
1) Play a shit fucking ton of unranked to the point where a single game literally stops having meaning to me any more 2) Play against friends that do nothing but cheese the fuck out of me constantly 3) Go back to doing pushups/situps after every loss (I used to do this, but stopped for some reason =/) 4) Immediately stop playing after losing three games in a row and go take a walk to reset my mind and give it a break, basically 5) Fill a music playlist with as much calming stuff as I can and only listen to this while playing (something I've actually recently been doing, and it's seemed to help) 6) Ban yourself from saying ANYTHING at all in a match, even GLHF or GG at the end. For me, even saying GG in a fit of rage just opens the floodgates 7) Play a game that you SUCK at for a while so you can appreciate your SC2 skills more (Mine would probably be DotA lmao)
Basically, I think the trick for you and me is to try to change our mindsets (like others have suggested) so that each game on its own doesn't matter anymore, and every time we sit down to ladder we just tell ourselves "Alright, time to play a game I really fucking enjoy!" instead of "Fuck, I really don't want to lose this next game..."
I would very much appreciate if you could keep the OP updated with anything you've managed to improve. This is an area of playing SC2 that I've really been trying to figure out, and kind of feel as lost as you seem to be.
I don't even see how you can have all the things you say and then say you act this way when losing a game.
ITS A GAME, you are 27 years old, move on when you lose.
I don't even know what to say other than that you should find something less competitive to do because you can't handle the stress. I got mad early on when starting playing sc2, but have since gotten over losses making me mad.
Also how do you associate your rage with what you think taking drugs is like if you have never? Don't assume anything until you've tried it for yourself.
I'd suggest exercise as many have before me in the thread. More specifically, jogging. It is so freaking fulfilling. It has helped me to deal with ranked game rage in both SC2 and LoL. Even after a loss, I feel like Buddha and instead of focusing on the fact that I lost, I'm more focused on how to not let that happen again. Analytical skills are that much more effective when your mind is not clouded with rage.
Look up intermittent explosive rage disorder.i know you said your fine outside of the game.but your life also sounds abnormaly laid back.have you been in stressful life situation in the past and found yourself over reacting to small irrelevant shit?
Accept the fact that you've lost. Accept it that you are worse than your opponent.
That are the first two steps.
Do not care about ladder. If I lose in ladder, I accept it and play another match/ game.
Some years ago, I used to break my keyboard in a clanwar. It was really fun to get called by my mate and explain how this did happen. :D However, I'm over this shit (mostly).
Just a few mins ago I raged like fuck as my Crysis 3 began to lag like shit and my RAM was on 97%... With only 300MB as processuse. OMG.
Whatever. Jogging, as already explained, is fantastic. Even 10 mins (if you are bad as I am) are enough to get over all incoming rage- attacks.
Or switch the game. Play a non- competitive game. I play Teeworls, ddrace mod. Even if I fail I laugh my ass off.
In my rather subjective opinion a rage as intensive as this seems to be coupled with the inability to laugh at yourself while you are being made fun of. If this is true for you (as it was for me when I was still pretty young) then it might be a point to work on. Taking life less seriously (no idea how serious you take it) or trying to find a way to "ridicule yourself" could be a step in the right direction.
For my own rage I can only say that it got bearable with a series of regular visits to a school psychiatrist, but I have no memory as to what we really did or what he said that made the difference.
You're one of those guys who feed off their success. Like, you consider your success as a defining feature off you. If you want to really notice this, look at all your word choices: your life beyond the computer is fairly successful. "Wonderful" girl, good apartment, good everything in general ("I generally have a pretty awesome life."). You have a job you enjoy, blah blah blah.
Now, one might say, "so what? He's living a good life, there's nothing with that." The follow up question I present however, is why did he even start talking about this? Like, if you have rage ABOUT A VIDEO GAME the most important thing to do is just calm down. That's the immediate advice anyone gives, no one actually asks about how you're living conditions are. However, you can't do this; it's probably because you feel like a loser after a game, and so it defies how you think about yourself (successful).
Obviously, this would be a huge leap if he wasn't like this; but I really doubt it. Why? Because he spends nearly an hour raging, breaking things around him, etc. just after a few loses on sc2.
So, I'd suggest two things (either/or):
A) Quit playing so you stop feeling like a loser. The game balances your skill so you lose 50% of the time, if you don't like losing, you should stop playing.
B) Stop caring about the results of a game. Just play the game for the fucks, the whole point of a game is to bring joy, not just for the winner, but for the loser as well.
You should seriously see a therapist, nothing you are describing is normal. Also, TeamLiquid might be a good place to see if anyone has had similar experiences, but don't rely on this site as a credible source for anger management advice.
On May 12 2013 05:10 Flamingo777 wrote: You should seriously see a therapist, nothing you are describing is normal. Also, TeamLiquid might be a good place to see if anyone has had similar experiences, but don't rely on this site as a credible source for anger management advice.
Seriously, the more I read his paragraph the more it seems like a really pent up guy who spends all his time controlling his posture in public and suddenly when playing this game in private he explodes....
OP, I suffer with severe depression. I almost killed myself twice this year, and the symptoms you are describing are REALLY serious. Like, they are me when depression hits, maybe at a smaller scale but still. See a therapist please.
Anyways, first step to fixing this is to find out what exactly is it about losing that makes you so mad. Like, not just "because I lost", like more like if its cause you don't feel like they should've won, or your mad at yourself (which is what it sounds like to me) or w.e. Gotta find out why its triggering you so bad. Remember that it is JUST a game, that is the mindset you should have going into it. Its for having fun, its an outlet ect and try to calm your emotions down, breathe slowly. Go outside, go for a walk, just chill the hell out the best way you can. Sounds like you have a good life, maybe taking a break would be good or quitting altogether honestly. It ain't worth stressin this hard over. Hope this helps.
On May 12 2013 05:10 Flamingo777 wrote: You should seriously see a therapist, nothing you are describing is normal. Also, TeamLiquid might be a good place to see if anyone has had similar experiences, but don't rely on this site as a credible source for anger management advice.
Seriously, the more I read his paragraph the more it seems like a really pent up guy who spends all his time controlling his posture in public and suddenly when playing this game in private he explodes....
Sounds familiar
Several other people have mentioned this, but I'm afraid it just isn't true, at least with regards to the "pent up" part.
On May 12 2013 04:22 Murdaa wrote: Look up intermittent explosive rage disorder.i know you said your fine outside of the game.but your life also sounds abnormaly laid back.have you been in stressful life situation in the past and found yourself over reacting to small irrelevant shit?
I have found myself in stressful situations in life (who hasn't?) but I've always handled them fairly well (at least, in retrospect I think I have). I wouldn't say I react abnormally to small, irrelevant things any more than anyone else.
On May 12 2013 04:33 furerkip wrote: LOL, this was actually kinda funny.
Okay, so let me try to explain this to you.
You're one of those guys who feed off their success. Like, you consider your success as a defining feature off you. If you want to really notice this, look at all your word choices: your life beyond the computer is fairly successful. "Wonderful" girl, good apartment, good everything in general ("I generally have a pretty awesome life."). You have a job you enjoy, blah blah blah.
Now, one might say, "so what? He's living a good life, there's nothing with that." The follow up question I present however, is why did he even start talking about this? Like, if you have rage ABOUT A VIDEO GAME the most important thing to do is just calm down. That's the immediate advice anyone gives, no one actually asks about how you're living conditions are. However, you can't do this; it's probably because you feel like a loser after a game, and so it defies how you think about yourself (successful).
Obviously, this would be a huge leap if he wasn't like this; but I really doubt it. Why? Because he spends nearly an hour raging, breaking things around him, etc. just after a few loses on sc2.
So, I'd suggest two things (either/or):
A) Quit playing so you stop feeling like a loser. The game balances your skill so you lose 50% of the time, if you don't like losing, you should stop playing.
B) Stop caring about the results of a game. Just play the game for the fucks, the whole point of a game is to bring joy, not just for the winner, but for the loser as well.
You're reading far, far too much into my word choices. The only reason I even mentioned my life outside of SC2 was to illustrate that my problems in SC2 were not merely the tip of a larger iceberg. As many here have pointed out, sometimes rage can be a symptom of a larger problem. However, in my case, I'm confident that is not the issue.
On May 12 2013 05:42 Picklebread wrote: OP, I suffer with severe depression. I almost killed myself twice this year, and the symptoms you are describing are REALLY serious. Like, they are me when depression hits, maybe at a smaller scale but still. See a therapist please.
Anyways, first step to fixing this is to find out what exactly is it about losing that makes you so mad. Like, not just "because I lost", like more like if its cause you don't feel like they should've won, or your mad at yourself (which is what it sounds like to me) or w.e. Gotta find out why its triggering you so bad. Remember that it is JUST a game, that is the mindset you should have going into it. Its for having fun, its an outlet ect and try to calm your emotions down, breathe slowly. Go outside, go for a walk, just chill the hell out the best way you can. Sounds like you have a good life, maybe taking a break would be good or quitting altogether honestly. It ain't worth stressin this hard over. Hope this helps.
I'm sorry you're suffering from depression. I hope that you find a way to balance your life so that it doesn't affect you so severely. However, I'm pretty confident I'm not depressed, as the only negative feelings of this severity that I experience with any regularity stem from starcraft. As others have said, therapy would only be a last resort for me, as I like to try to solve my problems on my own if possible, and generally feel as though therapy can be somewhat disingenuous. I'd rather not get off on a tangent about that though.
On May 12 2013 05:42 Picklebread wrote: OP, I suffer with severe depression. I almost killed myself twice this year, and the symptoms you are describing are REALLY serious. Like, they are me when depression hits, maybe at a smaller scale but still. See a therapist please.
Anyways, first step to fixing this is to find out what exactly is it about losing that makes you so mad. Like, not just "because I lost", like more like if its cause you don't feel like they should've won, or your mad at yourself (which is what it sounds like to me) or w.e. Gotta find out why its triggering you so bad. Remember that it is JUST a game, that is the mindset you should have going into it. Its for having fun, its an outlet ect and try to calm your emotions down, breathe slowly. Go outside, go for a walk, just chill the hell out the best way you can. Sounds like you have a good life, maybe taking a break would be good or quitting altogether honestly. It ain't worth stressin this hard over. Hope this helps.
I'm sorry you're suffering from depression. I hope that you find a way to balance your life so that it doesn't affect you so severely. However, I'm pretty confident I'm not depressed, as the only negative feelings of this severity that I experience with any regularity stem from starcraft. As others have said, therapy would only be a last resort for me, as I like to try to solve my problems on my own if possible, and generally feel as though therapy can be somewhat disingenuous. I'd rather not get off on a tangent about that though.
Just out of interest, what happens when you lose in real life? Like when people give you shit for whatever reason which makes you have to work harder to make up for it, people U-turn on deals, getting cheated on etc.
On May 12 2013 05:42 Picklebread wrote: OP, I suffer with severe depression. I almost killed myself twice this year, and the symptoms you are describing are REALLY serious. Like, they are me when depression hits, maybe at a smaller scale but still. See a therapist please.
Anyways, first step to fixing this is to find out what exactly is it about losing that makes you so mad. Like, not just "because I lost", like more like if its cause you don't feel like they should've won, or your mad at yourself (which is what it sounds like to me) or w.e. Gotta find out why its triggering you so bad. Remember that it is JUST a game, that is the mindset you should have going into it. Its for having fun, its an outlet ect and try to calm your emotions down, breathe slowly. Go outside, go for a walk, just chill the hell out the best way you can. Sounds like you have a good life, maybe taking a break would be good or quitting altogether honestly. It ain't worth stressin this hard over. Hope this helps.
I'm sorry you're suffering from depression. I hope that you find a way to balance your life so that it doesn't affect you so severely. However, I'm pretty confident I'm not depressed, as the only negative feelings of this severity that I experience with any regularity stem from starcraft. As others have said, therapy would only be a last resort for me, as I like to try to solve my problems on my own if possible, and generally feel as though therapy can be somewhat disingenuous. I'd rather not get off on a tangent about that though.
It does sound like you're suffering from depression, and you may not even draw that conclusion on your own until something horrible happens to you. At the very least you should recognize that the level of rage you're hitting is NOT healthy at all, and you either need to seek some professional help or give up on the game entirely if that is truly the only time you ever get that angry in life.
1. Slamming my fists into any objects around me with such force and consistency that I have damaged the nerves in my hands, wrists, and fingers several times, sometimes requiring months to heal. At one point I thought I was going to need surgery for a nerve impingement, but was fortunate to be able to avoid it. 2. Throwing, damaging, and breaking objects around me. Yesterday, I managed to slam 4 or 5 keys off of my $120.00 mechanical keyboard. Fortunately I was able to find them and re-attach them and it still works (good on you, Corsair!). 3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst. I was actually cited for a noise violation by my apartment complex late last year for this and the associated slamming and banging. 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
Seriously just stop playing. Find another hobby. The first 3 are already pretty bad as you are destroying your own property and injuring yourself. Then you decide to drive when you are that angry and put lives in danger. Either see a shrink about your anger problems and get them under control or stop playing SC2 if it triggers your anger that badly.
Your self-complexity is probably far too low. Self-complexity means the amount of self-aspects and the interconnectivity between those that represent ones self. High self-complexity = many aspects, low interconnectivity and low self-complexity = few aspects, high interconnectivity. Studies found that negative feedback about performances evoked stronger emotional reactions in subjects that had low self-complexity than in subjects that had high self-complexity. Subjectively feeling one has done bad in one self-aspect has more weight the less self-aspects there are and more easily transfers to the whole self (in perception) the more interconnected the self-aspects are. This means you should probably try to get other hobbies that have nothing to do with competing, get more meaningful social contacts etc.. This behaviour would likely not occur if your self image would not have too few different aspects, with starcraft obviously being a much bigger part of it than would be appropriate or healthy.
On May 12 2013 05:42 Picklebread wrote: OP, I suffer with severe depression. I almost killed myself twice this year, and the symptoms you are describing are REALLY serious. Like, they are me when depression hits, maybe at a smaller scale but still. See a therapist please.
Anyways, first step to fixing this is to find out what exactly is it about losing that makes you so mad. Like, not just "because I lost", like more like if its cause you don't feel like they should've won, or your mad at yourself (which is what it sounds like to me) or w.e. Gotta find out why its triggering you so bad. Remember that it is JUST a game, that is the mindset you should have going into it. Its for having fun, its an outlet ect and try to calm your emotions down, breathe slowly. Go outside, go for a walk, just chill the hell out the best way you can. Sounds like you have a good life, maybe taking a break would be good or quitting altogether honestly. It ain't worth stressin this hard over. Hope this helps.
I'm sorry you're suffering from depression. I hope that you find a way to balance your life so that it doesn't affect you so severely. However, I'm pretty confident I'm not depressed, as the only negative feelings of this severity that I experience with any regularity stem from starcraft. As others have said, therapy would only be a last resort for me, as I like to try to solve my problems on my own if possible, and generally feel as though therapy can be somewhat disingenuous. I'd rather not get off on a tangent about that though.
Just out of interest, what happens when you lose in real life? Like when people give you shit for whatever reason which makes you have to work harder to make up for it, people U-turn on deals, getting cheated on etc.
If it's a failing of mine, like I didn't do my job well enough, then I become extremely focused on improving the situation and improving my performance.
If it's someone doing something to me that I feel is shady or unfair (this actually just happened during the course of moving), I usually get frustrated at the situation, stay annoyed about it for a little while, and eventually just move on. If it's work related, I use it as motivation to perform well enough to prove them wrong.
On May 12 2013 06:14 diehilde wrote: Your self-complexity is probably far too low. Self-complexity means the amount of self-aspects and the interconnectivity between those that represent ones self. High self-complexity = many aspects, low interconnectivity and low self-complexity = few aspects, high interconnectivity. Studies found that negative feedback about performances evoked stronger emotional reactions in subjects that had low self-complexity than in subjects that had high self-complexity. Subjectively feeling one has done bad in one self-aspect has more weight the less self-aspects there are and more easily transfers to the whole self (in perception) the more interconnected the self-aspects are. This means you should probably try to get other hobbies that have nothing to do with competing, get more meaningful social contacts etc.. This behaviour would likely not occur if your self image would not have too few different aspects, with starcraft obviously being a much bigger part of it than would be appropriate or healthy.
This is rather interesting. First time I heard of this concept, but it makes sense. Its great to learn something new and actually explains a lot when I look at myself and others. Nice post sir.
OP, you won't find your answer here. As others have said, you need to seek professional advice. There's a chance that someone on here is a professional or qualified to help diagnose what your problems are and give you a solution, but you won't be able to figure out who that is.
Get a book on anger management, see if that helps, if not, it's time to suck it up and go to a psychologist. This is either a serious problem that needs a serious solution, or it's not truly a problem and this thread wasn't necessary.
*edit* Keep in mind you might have issues that are affecting this aspect of your life without you realizing they're there. For example, just because your "job is in the performance business" doesn't mean you might not have some sort of performance anxiety causing this. That's what a professional can help you determine. If you just don't trust them for some reason, well, that itself could be due to some anxiety that you need to solve.
On May 12 2013 06:14 diehilde wrote: Your self-complexity is probably far too low. Self-complexity means the amount of self-aspects and the interconnectivity between those that represent ones self. High self-complexity = many aspects, low interconnectivity and low self-complexity = few aspects, high interconnectivity. Studies found that negative feedback about performances evoked stronger emotional reactions in subjects that had low self-complexity than in subjects that had high self-complexity. Subjectively feeling one has done bad in one self-aspect has more weight the less self-aspects there are and more easily transfers to the whole self (in perception) the more interconnected the self-aspects are. This means you should probably try to get other hobbies that have nothing to do with competing, get more meaningful social contacts etc.. This behaviour would likely not occur if your self image would not have too few different aspects, with starcraft obviously being a much bigger part of it than would be appropriate or healthy.
This is rather interesting. First time I heard of this concept, but it makes sense. Its great to learn something new and actually explains a lot when I look at myself and others. Nice post sir.
I agree, this makes a lot of sense. I suffer from gaming rage, mostly when things in my life are going kind of badly. When I have a bunch of irons in the fire, and things are going well, I barely rage at all.
I can sympathize with you as I have had a lot of anger issues as well. Between video games and playing Magic: the Gathering at a high competitive level I have had my moments of being irrational. Now in public I might just make snarky comments or put downs to the other player, but at home sometimes pounding my fist in the desk or on the keyboard.
Then I realized that I was getting nothing out of it, and that my son would eventually see me do this and pick up on it. That really shook me out of it, I always told him to be a good sport, that win or lose you can walk away with your head high and something learned that will make you better next time. He plays a lot of these games with me and if you look at my profile you will notice a lot of vs a.i. games which are him playing. Says he wants to rock at MLG or WCS one day(he's 11 lol). I don't want him to ever make an ass out of himself like I have.
Just take a step back at times and try to find some humor in the situations or hell physically step back and go for a run or a walk and just zone out.
On May 09 2013 08:50 Lauriel wrote: 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
If losing ladder games puts you at the risk of placing your's and/or other's life in jeopardy, you should stop putting you in such situation until you've gotten professional help.
Not going to dip into psychoanalysis based on one forum post, although it does sound like you should probably be seeing someone. It doesn't mean you need to "grow up" or whatever else; you've just got anger issues. They need to be addressed obviously but it doesn't make you an idiot.
What I will say is, it might be helpful to bear in mind that StarCraft 2 is, frankly, a ridiculously punitive game. Like, there are standards of modern game design sanitation that it just does not meet - windows to instantly lose the game that are only seconds long, huge, easy-to-commit mistakes that the game provides no feedback for. People get mad playing it because it does things that make any reasonable gamer mad. It's stupidly, unreasonably hard; fuck, we *still* see pros get supply blocked and they do literally nothing but practice this game.
Not that this justifies breaking things or driving recklessly, not at all. But it might help you to vent your anger more rationally if you take a breath and say "It's not me, it's not him, it's this fucking game."
I have a masters in psychology and what you describe is a violently (both oral and physical) "let out of steam". This is sometimes called negative catharsis and is often a direct response of frustration. There are individual differences of how we deal with frustration, and some does this violently.
You have to know that this is not the game that makes you become violent. It is you making you become violent. The game is maybe the only thing that makes you this frustrated. Many people deal with frustration by avoiding it. Maybe you have, but this game don't let you avoid it. Well, now it's time to deal with it, because you can't become violent anymore for the sake of yourself and those around you.
(Disclaimer, this is here I would suggest you get proffesional help, but since you don't want to I will not pursue that notion.)
Here something you can do: -Never, and I mean NEVER, let yourself act violently after a loss. Don't even swear. You have to keep it all in. This is training to deal with frustration, in a nonviolent way. It all starts with your head, and it will stay there. -Talk about your losses. Yes to you girlfriend or a friend that understands you. Starcraft can be very lonely sometimes, and talking about why you lost or just the game in general is healthy. -Work out. Simple, this let your body use it's energy. You won't have unspent tension in your muscles that the frustration will seek a outlet for. -Say gg. Say this and only this after every game. You are playing with another human being, treat them as one.
On May 12 2013 06:01 Lauriel wrote: However, I'm pretty confident I'm not depressed, as the only negative feelings of this severity that I experience with any regularity stem from starcraft. As others have said, therapy would only be a last resort for me, as I like to try to solve my problems on my own if possible, and generally feel as though therapy can be somewhat disingenuous. I'd rather not get off on a tangent about that though.
Just because you said this the way you did I think you should talk to someone. I am also someone who tries to solve all my problems on my own and to be frank, unless you are a super genius and at complete peace with yourself and all those around you/the world as it is, this is not possible. Everyone needs help at some point, even if you think this is trivial and just something stemming from starcraft. It sounds stupid, but until you seek talking to someone about things that are bothering you or bring you lots of stress you won't know how much it can help. You also don't have to label it so hard as "therapy". Like many have already said, I think your 'rage' is a little too much for losing in a game. Good luck.
i would be interested to know how this started for you.
Because im sometimes angry with myself too but not that extreme. Thats not starcraft specific, i think it started with fifa and can happen in other games too. I shout sometimes or bang my fist or my mouse on the table. But only for some seconds. Thats sometimes enough to break a mouse tough. :D I dont know.. some mouses break really easily. Happened maybe twice :D
If im tired and not able to concentrate, its more likely to happen so i avoid playing when im in no constituition to perform. I think it used to be worse some years ago when i was in highschool and now its just there sometimes and i just try to avoid it.
so im just interested because i dont want it to get worse. Sometimes its just easier to let yourself go than to take a deap breath and compose yourself first before you lose it.
It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
It's especially weird, because in the US you'd probably have to pay a shitload of money for it too.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
It's not just regular rage though, he's actually putting his own life and those of others at risk. There's clearly some underlying issue/s that would benefit from therapy. Talking to a professional makes for a far easier fix than trying to work it all out by yourself.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
It's not just regular rage though, he's actually putting his own life and those of others at risk. There's clearly some underlying issue/s that would benefit from therapy. Talking to a professional makes for a far easier fix than trying to work it all out by yourself.
1.Costs a lot of money. 2.Takes time. 3.No success guaranteed. 4.Minor issue. 5.How do you know there is "clearly underlying issue" here and not just the rage at a game?
Just a total exaggeration with "putting his and the life of others at risk". A lot of people are stressed out, sleep deprived etc. etc. and driving anyway. Not that it is a good thing but that is just the reality. "Oh you didnt sleep barely at all, well now you are putting your and the life of others at risk." I guess nobody ever would make that excuse in front of his boss. And then again it would be much smarter to try out some simple things like puniching a boxingbag or whatever before you consider "therapy" and waste a lot of money.
I just dont get that concept of "go see a therapist"...
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
yeah I mean it's not as if he's putting his own health or the lives of others at risk so it's clearly not a serious issue
if you could solve the issue by yourself I think you would have done it by now, don't play the game any time before you need to drive, that would be very irresponsible for you
and yes you should probably talk to a professional, even if it's only just once, what you're describing isn't at all normal and even if it's just related to starcraft at the moment you shouldn't avoid confronting this as it seems very dangerous and harmful
maybe you can deal with this issue yourself but maybe you can't and it's always going to be much easier with the help of a professional
How do I deal with rage? Smoke weed. However, it's not for everyone. I personally can't understand why a pointless video game would cause anger like you describe. I'm sure everyone has slammed their fists after a stupid loss, but the shit you're describing is ridiculous. Cool your jets, and stop being so serious about such an un serious thing.
I guess this is going off topic now, but, does anyone know what a therapist might do in his situation? Like if he just said "I was playing a game and got mad and punched a keyboard", does he get laughed out of the room, or get some breathing exercises to do, or some item to squeeze or what?
On May 13 2013 11:19 Penecks wrote: I guess this is going off topic now, but, does anyone know what a therapist might do in his situation? Like if he just said "I was playing a game and got mad and punched a keyboard", does he get laughed out of the room, or get some breathing exercises to do, or some item to squeeze or what?
if he laughs at you, that therapist should get thrown off a cliff.
He'll probably just ask you some questions about it and listen. try to figure out the what and why, and suggest some things to help. just standard stuff.
If it's as bad as you describe then you should probably just stop playing. If you really love SC2 then talk to a professional to get your problems sorted out.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
yeah I mean it's not as if he's putting his own health or the lives of others at risk so it's clearly not a serious issue
if you could solve the issue by yourself I think you would have done it by now, don't play the game any time before you need to drive, that would be very irresponsible for you
and yes you should probably talk to a professional, even if it's only just once, what you're describing isn't at all normal and even if it's just related to starcraft at the moment you shouldn't avoid confronting this as it seems very dangerous and harmful
maybe you can deal with this issue yourself but maybe you can't and it's always going to be much easier with the help of a professional
1. I m not the OP. Dont mix that up please. 2. Why should you run to a therpaist of one behaviour is not considered normal? I think that adds to charakter depth if it is within certain boundaries. 3. "Dangerous and harmful", total exaggeration, you might also give the advice that if you are stressed out and angry, dont be around people because you might hit them.
Just totally out of proportion. It also doesnt help your own life experience if you run to a therapist when you have a minor issue instead of trying to fix it by yourself.
You need to not take losses as so personally, like the other person dominated you mentally and physically and probably screenshotted the best moments in the game to slowly masturbate to (or some other degrading post-game humiliation activity). Try to view it as 30 or however many minutes of correct and incorrect actions on your part.
I did that exact same things you did OP. It's been a long thread and you might not come across this post but here's how it went with me when I finally overcame rage.
I was in skype with a bud just talking casually while playing a 1v1. I lost again to something I was mentally prepared for. Lost my shit. I had a cup of wine on the table that I was going to have after the match. Slammed my fist on the table, that shit went all over my keyboard and fried it. My friend heard it all, commented that I had "some issues". That right then and there I realized how stupid it all was. I didn't ever rage again, I just stopped raging and treated the game for what it was, a game.
I don't know how it happened, but something in me just snapped. I had enough. No more raging. I gain nothing from raging. And from then on I improved A LOT with my new zen-like mentality. I dunno man it'll randomly come to you at some point. But if it really cuts into your real life then maybe you should really distance yourself from the game.
On May 13 2013 11:49 Snuggles wrote: I did that exact same things you did OP. It's been a long thread and you might not come across this post but here's how it went with me when I finally overcame rage.
I was in skype with a bud just talking casually while playing a 1v1. I lost again to something I was mentally prepared for. Lost my shit. I had a cup of wine on the table that I was going to have after the match. Slammed my fist on the table, that shit went all over my keyboard and fried it. My friend heard it all, commented that I had "some issues". That right then and there I realized how stupid it all was. I didn't ever rage again, I just stopped raging and treated the game for what it was, a game.
I don't know how it happened, but something in me just snapped. I had enough. No more raging. I gain nothing from raging. And from then on I improved A LOT with my new zen-like mentality. I dunno man it'll randomly come to you at some point. But if it really cuts into your real life then maybe you should really distance yourself from the game.
I never had very big issues in the first place, but I would occasionally slam my desk with an open palm or yell "FUCK" really loud (that was about the extent). Personally I thought that was far, far too much. Eventually one day I just felt "wow, this is really childish, if anyone else saw how pitiful this video game makes me look I'd be super embarrassed."
And that was it. I just don't really rage anymore. I just don't care. I don't care about getting better at Starcraft in the slightest because it doesn't improve the rest of my life in anyway. It doesn't make me more likely to get promoted in my career. It didn't make me get better grades in high school / college. It definitely in no way ever helped me get laid. And really, is wasn't that great of a stress reliever. So what did it offer?
Just start considering it mindless entertainment. That was literally enough for me. Has been for years now. And I play this game a lot, at top masters level as random.
I think anger is a normal feeling so I wouldn't try to keep it in. However I would start for sure with no more hits or any other act of phisical violence. That's just stupid imo and is also easier to control than the pure psychological aspect.
That said I find really strange that videogames are the only thing that makes you so upset. Generally the anger for videogames is related with the personality of some people. If you are a very competitive person it's likely that you hate to lose at anything, especially when you know you're underperforming and should win instead. However if it were the case you would also experience anger in other fields, atleast in other sport/games.
That said, is also true that generally people feel truly angry just for the things which they care more. So maybe you are just giving too much importance to the game (considering you are not a pro) or simply you're not approaching it with the correct mindset.
It would be interesting to know the exact situations that trigger your anger. Does it happens every time you lose? Beside the anger, do you accept your losses?
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
100% agreed.
Anyway, have you seen "The Greatest Game"? (Golf movie, Shia ?LeBeouf?)?
I recommend.
Finally, what general area do you live in- about driving. This can lead to a therapeutic vent possibility, so... I'm not being a creeper, I doth swear. My location is all over TL anyway.
I have not.
And without getting too specific, I live in central Texas.
Ok- cool. So if you are near open spaces, I don't care what kind I car you drive but when that happens, roll the windows/put the top down. (Get as much airflow running through the vehicle as possible.)
1. This helps you to appreciate the speed you are traveling at. May not work, but it affects your subconscious too I believe so should slow you down whether you know it or not. And it lets you vent a bit, yes, but that is far from the goal. Don't yell at ppl if you can avoid it, or get out of town first...
If you are in a cool city (Texas has plenty) the sounds of people milling about could work either way. Otherwise, if not too expensive, look up scenic routes and get out of town. This is 2. I live in Palm Desert, a Palm Springs suburb. So I have the convenience o being able to check out Palm Springs or head to sky valley when I get stressed. Sky valley at night is the creepiest, most beautiful spot on a night with a full moon. Amazing rage/sadness/stress killer.
Even if you're in TeFLATxas, there are great vistas! Even if you can't appreciate them, and it doesn't help, at least roll the windows down, open sunroof or top.
Source: I've hit rough times in the past and this helped me. So if not this sorry, I've got nothing sir.
Edit: hits can be therapeutic! But get a punching bag, or similar. Then, not only do you vent, you exercise!
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
It's not just regular rage though, he's actually putting his own life and those of others at risk. There's clearly some underlying issue/s that would benefit from therapy. Talking to a professional makes for a far easier fix than trying to work it all out by yourself.
1.Costs a lot of money. 2.Takes time. 3.No success guaranteed. 4.Minor issue. 5.How do you know there is "clearly underlying issue" here and not just the rage at a game?
Just a total exaggeration with "putting his and the life of others at risk". A lot of people are stressed out, sleep deprived etc. etc. and driving anyway. Not that it is a good thing but that is just the reality. "Oh you didnt sleep barely at all, well now you are putting your and the life of others at risk." I guess nobody ever would make that excuse in front of his boss. And then again it would be much smarter to try out some simple things like puniching a boxingbag or whatever before you consider "therapy" and waste a lot of money.
I just dont get that concept of "go see a therapist"...
On this, some people have been driving 16 hours (hello there) and that is not safe. The necessity of it can add to the pressure. I have been in one accident in my life. Her fault.
On May 13 2013 11:49 Snuggles wrote: I did that exact same things you did OP. It's been a long thread and you might not come across this post but here's how it went with me when I finally overcame rage.
I was in skype with a bud just talking casually while playing a 1v1. I lost again to something I was mentally prepared for. Lost my shit. I had a cup of wine on the table that I was going to have after the match. Slammed my fist on the table, that shit went all over my keyboard and fried it. My friend heard it all, commented that I had "some issues". That right then and there I realized how stupid it all was. I didn't ever rage again, I just stopped raging and treated the game for what it was, a game.
I don't know how it happened, but something in me just snapped. I had enough. No more raging. I gain nothing from raging. And from then on I improved A LOT with my new zen-like mentality. I dunno man it'll randomly come to you at some point. But if it really cuts into your real life then maybe you should really distance yourself from the game.
Yeah, I think this thread may actually have been that realization for me. I've played probably close to 100 games since posting it, and I haven't raged once yet. Here's hoping!
On May 11 2013 14:08 VasHeR wrote: If you love sc2 and play it all the time, maybe you should set up a stream that you can run ads from. People will probably come to watch you rage (like how many people watch NASCAR hoping for a crash). This will allow you to (1) profit from your anger, (2) get immediate feedback after every game about what tactical decisions, micro errors, or otherwise led to your loss, and (3) give you an appropriate place and audience to vent your frustrations. good luck
This sounds like a terrible idea...
So he sets up the stream, loses, rages, but we'll need a camera in his room where he plays, so we can see him smash stuff. Also let's also setup a camera in his car, so we can watch his "rage runs" as he speeds recklessly around the streets before coming back to que up another game.
Yes, sounds like that would attract the appropriate therapeutic audience...
Fact is, when he is raging he won't listen to the game play feedback and it won't help him appropriately calm himself.
What he needs to do is figure out what makes him rage. Is he mad at his opponent? Himself? The game? That is really the first step, because before coming up to a solution we have to know the problem. Solving each of those requires a different response.
100% agreed.
Anyway, have you seen "The Greatest Game"? (Golf movie, Shia ?LeBeouf?)?
I recommend.
Finally, what general area do you live in- about driving. This can lead to a therapeutic vent possibility, so... I'm not being a creeper, I doth swear. My location is all over TL anyway.
I have not.
And without getting too specific, I live in central Texas.
Ok- cool. So if you are near open spaces, I don't care what kind I car you drive but when that happens, roll the windows/put the top down. (Get as much airflow running through the vehicle as possible.)
1. This helps you to appreciate the speed you are traveling at. May not work, but it affects your subconscious too I believe so should slow you down whether you know it or not. And it lets you vent a bit, yes, but that is far from the goal. Don't yell at ppl if you can avoid it, or get out of town first...
If you are in a cool city (Texas has plenty) the sounds of people milling about could work either way. Otherwise, if not too expensive, look up scenic routes and get out of town. This is 2. I live in Palm Desert, a Palm Springs suburb. So I have the convenience o being able to check out Palm Springs or head to sky valley when I get stressed. Sky valley at night is the creepiest, most beautiful spot on a night with a full moon. Amazing rage/sadness/stress killer.
Even if you're in TeFLATxas, there are great vistas! Even if you can't appreciate them, and it doesn't help, at least roll the windows down, open sunroof or top.
Source: I've hit rough times in the past and this helped me. So if not this sorry, I've got nothing sir.
Edit: hits can be therapeutic! But get a punching bag, or similar. Then, not only do you vent, you exercise!
I live in the coolest city in Texas (well, I think so anyway), so there's always something to take my mind off of it. Also, I think getting outside more in general will help. I think a lot of my raging is the result of just having spare energy to burn and no good way to get rid of it sometimes.
On May 13 2013 12:24 RedFury wrote: I think anger is a normal feeling so I wouldn't try to keep it in. However I would start for sure with no more hits or any other act of phisical violence. That's just stupid imo and is also easier to control than the pure psychological aspect.
That said I find really strange that videogames are the only thing that makes you so upset. Generally the anger for videogames is related with the personality of some people. If you are a very competitive person it's likely that you hate to lose at anything, especially when you know you're underperforming and should win instead. However if it were the case you would also experience anger in other fields, atleast in other sport/games.
That said, is also true that generally people feel truly angry just for the things which they care more. So maybe you are just giving too much importance to the game (considering you are not a pro) or simply you're not approaching it with the correct mindset.
It would be interesting to know the exact situations that trigger your anger. Does it happens every time you lose? Beside the anger, do you accept your losses?
Well, I am a very competitive person, and I hate losing in real life as much as I hate losing at online games. I think the difference is that in real life I can take steps that I know will help me perform better in the area at which I'm performing under par. In games, there is no way to go back in time and play better. Instead, you can just play better in the next game. I think that realization bothered me, because I hate not being able to go back and fix the things I did wrong against the opponents I lost to.
For the ongoing therapist or no therapist argument that seems to be continuing, here's the reason why I'm reluctant, outside of the monetary concerns involved.
When someone goes to a therapist, the therapist assumes that they're there because they have a problem in their life that they can't solve themselves. Therefore, they start looking much deeper into that person's life and psyche for problems that may or may not be there. I don't blame them for it - they kind of have to. If they just said "you need to take things less seriously, or try exercising more," then they'd be accused of not doing their job because their feedback is so simple. Is this a hard and fast rule? No, of course not, but I'd wager that it happens more often than not.
Without sounding arrogant, I'm almost entirely certain that my Starcraft 2 rage isn't rooted in some deep-seated issue that I'm not aware of, so what I'm (relatively) sure will happen if I were to go to one is that they'll dig and dig for something that isn't there, or worse, try to convince me that something is there that isn't. The idea that someone who has never met me, and knows basically nothing about my life can tell me how to solve my problems just doesn't make much sense, and on top of that, I feel as though the best therapy can be gotten from friends and family, not someone whom you have to pay to listen to you at all. I take the feedback of someone who I know cares about me much more seriously than someone who, for lack of a better way to put it, is a hired ear with the ability to write prescriptions to fix your brain.
Now, why make a post like this on the internets if I don't think someone who knows me can solve my problems? Because we're all (for the most part) gamers, and on this particular issue, I know there are players here who have dealt with this and found ways to control it. In short, I'm asking for advice about the issue itself, rather than for advice on how to fix myself. I don't actually think I'm broken. I think my habits and mindset are. If, after I fix my habits and mindset, I still have significant rage issues, then I'll have to consider the possibility that this isn't something I can fix myself. However, as of now, I'm fairly confident it won't come to that.
Sounds like quite some troublesome rage issues you have
As I recall Day9 talked about hanlding rage in one of his dailies a year or two ago. I didn't find which one though. One of the things he said though, was to just ride the rage wave, and don't direct it at anything. Just be in the emotion ("I'm so angry right now. Oh man... I'm so angry"). But don't let it crystalize into directed thoughts ("I'm so angry at myself. Man, I suck. Fucking cheese!"). I've tried it a few times, and it helped me.
What also helps me is trying to turn it into something positive. "Awesome! I lost to X! This is a good thing! Now I'm gonna learn how to stop that, by watching the replay and possibly seeking help online." Ofcrouse that only helps afterwards. I can still get upset from losing.
Also you said that you just qeue up another game when that happens. I really think you should take a break until you're calm and collected agian. Nothing good will ever come from playing when already enraged
Without sounding arrogant, I'm almost entirely certain that my Starcraft 2 rage isn't rooted in some deep-seated issue that I'm not aware of, so what I'm (relatively) sure will happen if I were to go to one is that they'll dig and dig for something that isn't there, or worse, try to convince me that something is there that isn't. The idea that someone who has never met me, and knows basically nothing about my life can tell me how to solve my problems just doesn't make much sense, and on top of that, I feel as though the best therapy can be gotten from friends and family, not someone whom you have to pay to listen to you at all. I take the feedback of someone who I know cares about me much more seriously than someone who, for lack of a better way to put it, is a hired ear with the ability to write prescriptions to fix your brain.
You have some understandable biases against therapy, understandable because it is sadly still stigmatized, but they are misinformed. Nobody is a bad or weak person, because they see a therapist to help with their problems. When your foot hurts, you go see a doctor and not your basketball coach, because the doctor is a professional though the coach knows your training routines and movements better. A therapist gets know you, by asking the right questions from experience and patterns. Not being aquainted personally is an important point, because it decreases pressure, no need for shame, lies, making a good impression. You´re probably no biased against doctors, though it´s the same thing.
I don't actually think I'm broken. I think my habits and mindset are. If, after I fix my habits and mindset, I still have significant rage issues, then I'll have to consider the possibility that this isn't something I can fix myself. However, as of now, I'm fairly confident it won't come to that.
It´s good to stay open-minded. "Fixing" though is a dangerous idea regarding the psyche, because it is bound to go for quick solutions to function properly for a while, without actually solving the underlying problem. No shame in requiring professional help, it´s what they´re there for and everybody can profit from therapy, really, everybody.
I guess what makes me different here is that I'm not an overly competitive person, and I don't rage. No matter if I have been cheesed or lost to something I did wrong (such as threw my army into a really bad encounter and lost it completely) I always gg and leave. I go back and watch the replay and see what I did wrong or what I could have done differently. I do it completely calmly as I look at it in a way that I may have something to gain from this in the future. The one time I did rage was when I was cheesed so badly I lost my main base and rebuilt. I scouted and found my opponent had a lot more bases that I did (regardless of the fact I actually had a perfect counter to his army and a better economy) and so I quit the game. I went and watched the replay and found that I was far ahead of my opponent and had already killed his entire army and my units were better upgraded. I was so angry. I shook. But I just went and lay down on the bed and let the anger wash over me. It took an hour to subside and since then I have been completely calm when playing. I know this probably doesn't help the OP in any way, but I thought relating my own way of handling anger might inspire someone else to just direct their rage internally. It is a game, in the end, and while stats do affect your ranking all you can do is learn and practice and become better. Just take a few deep breaths, walk around and take your mind off it. Go back she you are feeling calmer and always stop playing on a good note.
Without sounding arrogant, I'm almost entirely certain that my Starcraft 2 rage isn't rooted in some deep-seated issue that I'm not aware of, so what I'm (relatively) sure will happen if I were to go to one is that they'll dig and dig for something that isn't there, or worse, try to convince me that something is there that isn't. The idea that someone who has never met me, and knows basically nothing about my life can tell me how to solve my problems just doesn't make much sense, and on top of that, I feel as though the best therapy can be gotten from friends and family, not someone whom you have to pay to listen to you at all. I take the feedback of someone who I know cares about me much more seriously than someone who, for lack of a better way to put it, is a hired ear with the ability to write prescriptions to fix your brain.
You have some understandable biases against therapy, understandable because it is sadly still stigmatized, but they are misinformed. Nobody is a bad or weak person, because they see a therapist to help with their problems. When your foot hurts, you go see a doctor and not your basketball coach, because the doctor is a professional though the coach knows your training routines and movements better. A therapist gets know you, by asking the right questions from experience and patterns. Not being aquainted personally is an important point, because it decreases pressure, no need for shame, lies, making a good impression. You´re probably no biased against doctors, though it´s the same thing.
I don't actually think I'm broken. I think my habits and mindset are. If, after I fix my habits and mindset, I still have significant rage issues, then I'll have to consider the possibility that this isn't something I can fix myself. However, as of now, I'm fairly confident it won't come to that.
It´s good to stay open-minded. "Fixing" though is a dangerous idea regarding the psyche, because it is bound to go for quick solutions to function properly for a while, without actually solving the underlying problem. No shame in requiring professional help, it´s what they´re there for and everybody can profit from therapy, really, everybody.
I don't actually have anything against therapy, nor do I think it's only for the weak. However, I do think that it's something that should be a last resort rather than a first step, especially since prescription medications have become such a fashionable direction to move in lately (seriously, not every kid needs to be on Ritalin, but I digress). Furthermore, there's something that I feel is inherently disingenuous about having to pay someone to listen to your problems, and then, for some reason, putting so much stock in what they have to say about them. Don't get me wrong - there are therapists out there who are probably excellent, and legitimately care about their patients as people and not just as methods of paying their bills, but until I've tried the means available to me to solve my problems myself, it's an avenue I'd rather not venture down, especially since I'm confident that there aren't any underlying issues for someone to unearth.
I think therapy can help everyone as well, but I'd rather seek that therapy from friends and family. I value the opinions of those who I know genuinely care about me more than someone I've never met who I have to pay to listen.
Without sounding arrogant, I'm almost entirely certain that my Starcraft 2 rage isn't rooted in some deep-seated issue that I'm not aware of, so what I'm (relatively) sure will happen if I were to go to one is that they'll dig and dig for something that isn't there, or worse, try to convince me that something is there that isn't. The idea that someone who has never met me, and knows basically nothing about my life can tell me how to solve my problems just doesn't make much sense, and on top of that, I feel as though the best therapy can be gotten from friends and family, not someone whom you have to pay to listen to you at all. I take the feedback of someone who I know cares about me much more seriously than someone who, for lack of a better way to put it, is a hired ear with the ability to write prescriptions to fix your brain.
You have some understandable biases against therapy, understandable because it is sadly still stigmatized, but they are misinformed. Nobody is a bad or weak person, because they see a therapist to help with their problems. When your foot hurts, you go see a doctor and not your basketball coach, because the doctor is a professional though the coach knows your training routines and movements better. A therapist gets know you, by asking the right questions from experience and patterns. Not being aquainted personally is an important point, because it decreases pressure, no need for shame, lies, making a good impression. You´re probably no biased against doctors, though it´s the same thing.
I don't actually think I'm broken. I think my habits and mindset are. If, after I fix my habits and mindset, I still have significant rage issues, then I'll have to consider the possibility that this isn't something I can fix myself. However, as of now, I'm fairly confident it won't come to that.
It´s good to stay open-minded. "Fixing" though is a dangerous idea regarding the psyche, because it is bound to go for quick solutions to function properly for a while, without actually solving the underlying problem. No shame in requiring professional help, it´s what they´re there for and everybody can profit from therapy, really, everybody.
I don't actually have anything against therapy, nor do I think it's only for the weak. However, I do think that it's something that should be a last resort rather than a first step, especially since prescription medications have become such a fashionable direction to move in lately (seriously, not every kid needs to be on Ritalin, but I digress). Furthermore, there's something that I feel is inherently disingenuous about having to pay someone to listen to your problems, and then, for some reason, putting so much stock in what they have to say about them. Don't get me wrong - there are therapists out there who are probably excellent, and legitimately care about their patients as people and not just as methods of paying their bills, but until I've tried the means available to me to solve my problems myself, it's an avenue I'd rather not venture down, especially since I'm confident that there aren't any underlying issues for someone to unearth.
I think therapy can help everyone as well, but I'd rather seek that therapy from friends and family. I value the opinions of those who I know genuinely care about me more than someone I've never met who I have to pay to listen.
Of course, getting medication is a serious step for serious illnesses, and as with all medical professionals it´s possible you get them prescribed needlessly. I can symphasize with that. The notion of a therapist as someone who is paid to listen though, is rather unproductive. Every professional works for pay. You also pay a doctor to fix your broken leg, same as a therapist. It doesn´t mean they don´t care. Neither does a personal relationship and long acquaintance substitute professional training. But that´s just semantics, you already figured what to do. I´m just saying that therapy is something really useful to everybody no matter how mentally healthy they think they are.
1. Slamming my fists into any objects around me with such force and consistency that I have damaged the nerves in my hands, wrists, and fingers several times, sometimes requiring months to heal. At one point I thought I was going to need surgery for a nerve impingement, but was fortunate to be able to avoid it. 2. Throwing, damaging, and breaking objects around me. Yesterday, I managed to slam 4 or 5 keys off of my $120.00 mechanical keyboard. Fortunately I was able to find them and re-attach them and it still works (good on you, Corsair!). 3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst. I was actually cited for a noise violation by my apartment complex late last year for this and the associated slamming and banging. 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
IdrA is that you? haha..
Man you sound like you just need to take a break from the game, seriously. Like a month or more. Then you'll come back and you'll have a different outlook on the game.
It is definitely a mindset thing. If you expect to win 100%, then you are bound to rage.
I know that losses can feel hard, but if you are playing starcraft to learn starcraft, then losses are what you learn absolutely most from and should view them as an opportunity to evolve. Ask yourself: "What did I do wrong this game that caused me to lose?". Try finding an answer through your replay. This also serves as a small break between your games.
If you are playing just for fun, try silly strategies like carrier rush, mass queen or mass reaper, anything that you don't expect to win with.
It also helps to have someone to talk to while playing and post-game.
You look yourself in the mirror and say 'I am a loser' repeat it a few times over a number of days when you lose and eventually that crushes your competitive spirit and you end up not caring as much. Eventually you realize it just a stupid game and question why people take it so seriously, then you'll end up uninstalling it before the next expansion and only watch streams. You'll be happier for it and able to help other people with similar issues by passing on this advice.
I started talking to myself, commentating my own play, laughing at myself whenever I fucked up, joking when things went wrong, like I was doing live commentary. It helped a ton, gave me a good sense of perspective. Once you stop taking yourself so deadly seriosuly, you can be more relaxed about failures, real or imagined.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
It's not just regular rage though, he's actually putting his own life and those of others at risk. There's clearly some underlying issue/s that would benefit from therapy. Talking to a professional makes for a far easier fix than trying to work it all out by yourself.
1.Costs a lot of money. 2.Takes time. 3.No success guaranteed. 4.Minor issue. 5.How do you know there is "clearly underlying issue" here and not just the rage at a game?
Just a total exaggeration with "putting his and the life of others at risk". A lot of people are stressed out, sleep deprived etc. etc. and driving anyway. Not that it is a good thing but that is just the reality. "Oh you didnt sleep barely at all, well now you are putting your and the life of others at risk." I guess nobody ever would make that excuse in front of his boss.
But they should. Just because it's common and/or people eat up all sorts of shit their boss feeds them doesn't mean it's ok. Just because many people still smoke in some countries/areas doesn't mean they're not putting their lives at risk. Thousands of people dying from accidents every year who did nothing wrong is not a minor issue just because most people don't care.
I agree with your skepticism toward therapy, although I wouldn't rule it out. But the point where he's speeding and thereby putting other people's lives at risk to me is the point where it really stops being funny and where doing something about this becomes a matter not only of his personal quality of life, but of responsibility.
If you can't overcome the rage, make sure you don't use the car until it dissipates. If you can't do that neither, quit playing the damn game.
To be honnest, I raged a lot too (nowhere close to this kind of anger though) until I understood why Starcraft 2 is a big source of rage. It's because as soon as a game starts and until it ends, you're 100% heavily focused on a lot of things, your strategy, your build order, your micro, ..., and above all : your desire to win. Thus you stack up a lot of stress and pressure.
And when you lose (in fact no matter how you lose, to an all in, a macro game, or a player doing dumb things, whatever) it's a bit like everything you built up during the game is worthless, that's mainly frustration we feel at that point, which leads to rage and anger.
Even if I didn't give a shit about ladder ranking I got pretty angry when it came to face several loses. It's very simple to change his mindset about this, just don't play a game having in mind that the outcome of this particular game is actually important, because you'll be like "close-minded" to this. You need to free your mind a little bit, see the big picture (like the 15 games you're going to play to master even more your build orders or whatever you like), play starcraft 2 with the idea of long term, that's how I seriously don't care at all anymore about winning or losing a game, and that's how I tend to be a way better player than I was.
(for example : i'm a terran player and I used to hate protoss all ins (actually I still do, starting to think it might be in my DNA xD), I lost a lot of these games, and whenever I faced a protoss all in (on WoL) I just wanted so hard to rape my opponent with a terrible kind of mindset like "fucking protoss all iner trash, get the fuck out of this game". And it leads to affect my TvP macro games too, until a 35% win ratio in this match up. Then I just told myself "okay face it : you're terrible" and learnt to deal with these all ins, completely reviewing how I played that match up, how I scouted, etc... I faced a lot of all ins and loses in TvP after this, but It just didn't affect me at all cause I automatically knew what I did wrong and what I did well, and tbh all I wanted is to face another blink all in or proxy immortal to correct the mistakes I made in the previous game).
I now think about my improvements, and especially on the ladder, I mean your opponents are literraly like test subjects for your build orders/strategies.
TLDR : If you focus on each game you play like "what is important is the outcome of this game" you can't really improve and be calm. See the big picture of your starcraft 2 experience, think about long term.
On May 13 2013 18:37 aka_star wrote: You look yourself in the mirror and say 'I am a loser' repeat it a few times over a number of days when you lose and eventually that crushes your competitive spirit and you end up not caring as much. Eventually you realize it just a stupid game and question why people take it so seriously, then you'll end up uninstalling it before the next expansion and only watch streams. You'll be happier for it and able to help other people with similar issues by passing on this advice.
Kinda funny I asked this exact same question on the TL Strategy forum and on the Blogs section months ago and got badmouthed and called a fucking asshole.
On May 09 2013 09:14 MaestroSC wrote: I feel I get pretty heated when I ladder... but never to anything even close to ur levels of rage... but then again My parents would whoop my ass if I threw temper tantrums. (and I was one of those kids...who was quiet and friendly and the good one... until my tolerance/patience dam broke and then I would Lose it... like having my older brother who is 6" taller and about 80LB's heavier, in a corner crying as I stand over him with a baseball bat)
But then I turned like 10...and realized throwing temper tantrums is silly and childish.... so I don't punch random things and turn into a raging psycho anymore.
IDK why everyone is giving you so much advice/sympathy when its as simple as "Ur not 5 anymore, temper tantrums are bad!"
ITS LITERALLY A CHOICE. Just don't act like a psychopath when you play video games.
Did you not have older brothers growing up? Cause if you lived at my house, after you lost your shit one of the older siblings would have corrected this behavior pretty much immediately once you were at an age where it was ok to hit you hard in the arm/chest.
Don't understand all of the sympathy you are getting, for acting like a 5 year old in the breakfast cereal aisle.
maybe you should pay a large friend to put you in a chokehold everytime u throw a temper tantrum... should correct this problem of yours eventually.
You're an idiot. If people could be disciplined or controlled so easily when they lose, then why did Greg Fields get kicked from EG?
It's not as easy as clicking your fucking fingers. Else rage wouldn't be a thing. Ever thought of that? It's not such a simple matter and is far more complex than you'd expect it to be.
On May 09 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote: What makes you rage like this? Is it because you find some strategy to be really stupid, do you feel like you outplayed your opponent but still lost, or are you more frustrated by your own mistakes?
EDIT: Or are you just made whenever you lose, regardless of the reason?
It depends. Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
This can be a big thing. Don't expect anything. Go into practice completely open-minded. As soon as you set yourself within the boundaries that expectation places you in, you will get angry and frustrated if things don't go as planned. "Roll with it." If he cheeses, look at the cheese, accept it for what it is. Don't think of things as "strategies that prevent you from practicing what you want.
On May 09 2013 09:14 MaestroSC wrote: I feel I get pretty heated when I ladder... but never to anything even close to ur levels of rage... but then again My parents would whoop my ass if I threw temper tantrums. (and I was one of those kids...who was quiet and friendly and the good one... until my tolerance/patience dam broke and then I would Lose it... like having my older brother who is 6" taller and about 80LB's heavier, in a corner crying as I stand over him with a baseball bat)
But then I turned like 10...and realized throwing temper tantrums is silly and childish.... so I don't punch random things and turn into a raging psycho anymore.
IDK why everyone is giving you so much advice/sympathy when its as simple as "Ur not 5 anymore, temper tantrums are bad!"
ITS LITERALLY A CHOICE. Just don't act like a psychopath when you play video games.
Did you not have older brothers growing up? Cause if you lived at my house, after you lost your shit one of the older siblings would have corrected this behavior pretty much immediately once you were at an age where it was ok to hit you hard in the arm/chest.
Don't understand all of the sympathy you are getting, for acting like a 5 year old in the breakfast cereal aisle.
maybe you should pay a large friend to put you in a chokehold everytime u throw a temper tantrum... should correct this problem of yours eventually.
You're an idiot. If people could be disciplined or controlled so easily when they lose, then why did Greg Fields get kicked from EG?
It's not as easy as clicking your fucking fingers. Else rage wouldn't be a thing. Ever thought of that? It's not such a simple matter and is far more complex than you'd expect it to be.
You acknowledge that you personally have little control of some of the ways you behave. Thats you. Dont press your idea of how we cant control ourselves on us.
Also, calling people a straight up "Idiot" pretty much resigns yourself to the mindset of an adolescent.
Try to build something that suits you. I don't know, random ideas : - Drink A TONS OF WATER each day (it's good for you anyway), and don't go to the toilets unless you lose and rage. (lol, but seriously.)
- Make supplies of your favorite snack, and eat it when you r angry. NEVER eat it unless you r in a losing streak on SC2.
You can't realistically get mad at a game where even the best players don't always win lol. No one, in BW or SC2, has been undefeated for any significant span of time, ever. You think practice partners never took games off Flash? Lol.
So when you play ladder, you are worse than Flash, and you still lose? Oh fucking well hahaha. It's EXPECTED. You just have unrealistic expectations you have to manage.
Yeah, we're too spoiled by most video games. SC2 is not forgiving in that sense. You will win and you WILL lose. Can't deal with it? Not the game for you.
Psychological problems, it's not what people on forums can help with, imho. You need help or really quit the thing which makes you behave like that. Simple.
Btw, i don't believe that only games cause you to behave like that, rage is a trigger on some kinda scenario, regardless of the field it takes place in. BUT if it's only games... for christ's sake, are you a masochist to continue to put yourself through it all? It might ruin your life. God forbid anyone elses.
It's interesting how StarCraft seems to be able to incite such rage, to where people who don't have problems with any other games get furious at this game. I read some threads about this a while ago, it's probably a combination of several factors:
1. It's a Demanding Game
SC requires your absolute full attention, always. No matter how intensely you play, you are aware that the game demands more from you than you can physically or mentally deliver. Your body responds with adrenaline and an activated fight-or-flight response.
2. There's Only One Winner
No matter how you slice it, one person is going to lose the game. No matter how confident or brilliant the two players are, one will emerge a winner and the other a loser, and there are no points or accolades for losing by a small or large margin.
3. You Are Forced to Admit Defeat
Unless you wait for every single one of your buildings to explode, the way to leave a game of SC requires you to surrender to your opponent, acknowledging his win and cementing your awareness of your loss at the same time.
4. It Requires a Huge Time Investment
Learning to play StarCraft even at an average level is much harder than most people give themselves credit for. Playing at a high level is harder than many University courses you could take, and the sheer time investment you need to learn the basics alone, the hundreds and thousands of games to just scratch the surface, can frustrate many people who believe they should be rewarded for this effort.
5. It's Always Your Fault
When you lose, it's often very hard for people to take responsibility for their loss, especially after the extended period of heightened effort and anxiety that preceded it. The first, and most common response, is to blame the game, even though people know that a better player could have won with one hand tied behind his back. The reason you lost always traces back to a mistake (or series of mistakes) that you made, that the opponent (knowingly or not) capitalized on. However, as many people find it hard to take responsibility for things, they often flame the developers or players.
--------------------
Of course as stated before, these are conventions, but if we're looking for the "reasons" for the rage, you don't have to look much farther than this. Long story short, your body's physiology is responding to the demanding and ruthless "survival of the fittest" situation it finds itself in, which is what it naturally does. When you lose and you no longer need the chemicals, you suddenly find yourself sitting at your computer with a wounded ego and adrenaline in your veins. What do you think that leads to?
On May 14 2013 03:00 Clbull wrote: Kinda funny I asked this exact same question on the TL Strategy forum and on the Blogs section months ago and got badmouthed and called a fucking asshole.
Read your blog. It's reasonable why people called you an asshole because you were an asshole. There is rage when you take it out on yourself, like in OP's case, banging his fist on the table. Then there's people who lash out at other people, that's BM. Raging and taking it out on your opponent is much worse than taking it out on yourself.
How goes the games Lauriel? You should keep us posted on your mood while you play now. Ever since IdrA got the cut for his own issues rage has become quite the topic.
I honestly wish I could tell you guys a sure fire way to stop raging at a video game, but really I can only describe it as "snapping" one day and just not feel ticked off by anything. It's not a progressive type of thing, it just happens. I have never heard of a person slowly changing a personality trait of their's through some procedure. They either except their personality trait or dismiss it, or they don't even know they had a choice to do so in the beginning and may or may not refuse to see the fact that they have a choice. To me it's like an on and off switch. I shock myself times when I realize how calm and collected I am after losing to an all-in in ZvZ, 6pool with like 4 drones pulled and 2 spines down. That was one of the biggest triggers to make me flip my table over, and now with my switch turned off I simply just grumble a bit say my 'gg', think about it and remind myself to do this and this next time I spot it with my ovie.
There are times when I turn the switch back on though. Of course I never do any of that fist slamming anymore, but it's more like scolding. I play WoW Arena with my buds pretty competitively, and I remember this one time with lost to something for the 4 th time in a row. I was pretty pissed, because it was something we had seen over and over yet we still weren't prepared for it. My friends did their usual "damn, ugh, goddammit, I dunno man" routine and queued up for another game. I put my foot down and addressed the issue, and we worked together to get a solution. Not necessarily the rage we have in mind, but I still think that it counts as rage because I'm emotionally fired up and I'm in a state of mind where I could say things that are meaningless in terms of improvement. Here I took that emotion and tried to use it constructively. I was pissed, I don't get pissed for real that often when it came to Arena, my teammates could feel it so they listened carefully and responded accordingly.
Constructive rage and blind rage, let's use those token words.
On May 14 2013 06:31 Clbull wrote: I didn't mean that point personally, I just find the whole thing a double standard from the community...
There really isn't a double standard in the community. Nobody benefits from an outburst. Being BM and raging at your opponent for beating you is much more infantile that you realize, apparently. Nobody has patience for someone who can't just shut up and accept a loss, but we sympathize with a person who gets mad at himself for losing, because at the end of the day it's your fault that you lost.
The OP is obviously intelligent enough to realize that his ultra-competitive nature causes his frustration to manifest itself in an ugly way. It's very different from being delusional about the conditions of your loss and going on a tangent of blaming your opponent and talking shit that you can't back up. You may think we're being disingenuous or holding a double standard by chastising immaturity and bad sportsmanship while showing sympathy for someone who genuinely feels like punishing himself for losing. I assure you, again, that no such double standard exists. You don't get better by blaming others for your own inadequacies as a player. End of story.
This thread may have run its course, but just in case you're still keeping up, you might find it interesting to try and register your thoughts and emotions as the gaming session progresses.
What is your state of mind as you're sitting down to play?
What are your thoughts and how are your emotions?
How do you feel as a game begins and plays out? Are you excited? Nervous? Reluctant? Hesitant? Anticipant?
How do you feel when you're in a good position in the game? How do you feel when things go sour? When do how you feel and think about the game, for better or worse, change during the course of the game? What happens when you seem to be winning? What happens when you're close to losing? When you make a good move? When you make a mistake?
With a game as involving as SC2 it can be difficult to register all of this as the game is running, but if you could become more aware about the triggers of the the fluctuations of your frame of mind and your emotional state, you might learn to recognize and anticipate the factors that lead to you having these unwanted emotional outbursts.
Perhaps you could use a voice-recorder to try and verbalize what is going on as you're playing the game? You could listen to the recording afterwards and try to pin down what factors frustrate you. What often happen with our thoughts and emotions are that they cascade through familiar patterns that may not be helpful or make a lot of sense on closer inspection. If you try and pry apart what goes on "on the inside" during a game, thus identifying the beginning of the thoughts and feelings that lead down the path to you becoming angry, you may be able to make a break from them before they take you there.
On May 14 2013 03:00 Clbull wrote: Kinda funny I asked this exact same question on the TL Strategy forum and on the Blogs section months ago and got badmouthed and called a fucking asshole.
Read your blog. It's reasonable why people called you an asshole because you were an asshole. There is rage when you take it out on yourself, like in OP's case, banging his fist on the table. Then there's people who lash out at other people, that's BM. Raging and taking it out on your opponent is much worse than taking it out on yourself.
How goes the games Lauriel? You should keep us posted on your mood while you play now. Ever since IdrA got the cut for his own issues rage has become quite the topic.
I honestly wish I could tell you guys a sure fire way to stop raging at a video game, but really I can only describe it as "snapping" one day and just not feel ticked off by anything. It's not a progressive type of thing, it just happens. I have never heard of a person slowly changing a personality trait of their's through some procedure. They either except their personality trait or dismiss it, or they don't even know they had a choice to do so in the beginning and may or may not refuse to see the fact that they have a choice. To me it's like an on and off switch. I shock myself times when I realize how calm and collected I am after losing to an all-in in ZvZ, 6pool with like 4 drones pulled and 2 spines down. That was one of the biggest triggers to make me flip my table over, and now with my switch turned off I simply just grumble a bit say my 'gg', think about it and remind myself to do this and this next time I spot it with my ovie.
There are times when I turn the switch back on though. Of course I never do any of that fist slamming anymore, but it's more like scolding. I play WoW Arena with my buds pretty competitively, and I remember this one time with lost to something for the 4 th time in a row. I was pretty pissed, because it was something we had seen over and over yet we still weren't prepared for it. My friends did their usual "damn, ugh, goddammit, I dunno man" routine and queued up for another game. I put my foot down and addressed the issue, and we worked together to get a solution. Not necessarily the rage we have in mind, but I still think that it counts as rage because I'm emotionally fired up and I'm in a state of mind where I could say things that are meaningless in terms of improvement. Here I took that emotion and tried to use it constructively. I was pissed, I don't get pissed for real that often when it came to Arena, my teammates could feel it so they listened carefully and responded accordingly.
Constructive rage and blind rage, let's use those token words.
Actually, so far so good! I've probably logged about 100 games since posting this thread, and I haven't raged once, despite losing to several cheeses that I know would have bothered the hell out of me in the past.
The biggest difference, surprisingly, is just always saying "gl hf" and "gg" if I lose. Starting the game off in a positive frame of mind helps, and saying "gg," for whatever reason, gives a little closure to the game for me so that I'm not constantly thinking about a loss afterwards.
Now, there have been some moments of frustration, and I have caught myself getting heated in a couple of instances, and in those moments I've taken a second, gone over what happened in the game, and tried to at least make something positive come from it. The most important thing is that I'm not queueing right away. Getting up from the computer and taking a walk around my place also helps. But yes, so far, things have been going much better.
'I don't drink much, and have never done a drug in my life, but it's how I imagine it must feel to be on some sort of mind-altering substance, where rational thought no longer has any bearing on your actions.'
On May 14 2013 03:00 Clbull wrote: Kinda funny I asked this exact same question on the TL Strategy forum and on the Blogs section months ago and got badmouthed and called a fucking asshole.
Read your blog. It's reasonable why people called you an asshole because you were an asshole. There is rage when you take it out on yourself, like in OP's case, banging his fist on the table. Then there's people who lash out at other people, that's BM. Raging and taking it out on your opponent is much worse than taking it out on yourself.
How goes the games Lauriel? You should keep us posted on your mood while you play now. Ever since IdrA got the cut for his own issues rage has become quite the topic.
I honestly wish I could tell you guys a sure fire way to stop raging at a video game, but really I can only describe it as "snapping" one day and just not feel ticked off by anything. It's not a progressive type of thing, it just happens. I have never heard of a person slowly changing a personality trait of their's through some procedure. They either except their personality trait or dismiss it, or they don't even know they had a choice to do so in the beginning and may or may not refuse to see the fact that they have a choice. To me it's like an on and off switch. I shock myself times when I realize how calm and collected I am after losing to an all-in in ZvZ, 6pool with like 4 drones pulled and 2 spines down. That was one of the biggest triggers to make me flip my table over, and now with my switch turned off I simply just grumble a bit say my 'gg', think about it and remind myself to do this and this next time I spot it with my ovie.
There are times when I turn the switch back on though. Of course I never do any of that fist slamming anymore, but it's more like scolding. I play WoW Arena with my buds pretty competitively, and I remember this one time with lost to something for the 4 th time in a row. I was pretty pissed, because it was something we had seen over and over yet we still weren't prepared for it. My friends did their usual "damn, ugh, goddammit, I dunno man" routine and queued up for another game. I put my foot down and addressed the issue, and we worked together to get a solution. Not necessarily the rage we have in mind, but I still think that it counts as rage because I'm emotionally fired up and I'm in a state of mind where I could say things that are meaningless in terms of improvement. Here I took that emotion and tried to use it constructively. I was pissed, I don't get pissed for real that often when it came to Arena, my teammates could feel it so they listened carefully and responded accordingly.
Constructive rage and blind rage, let's use those token words.
Actually, so far so good! I've probably logged about 100 games since posting this thread, and I haven't raged once, despite losing to several cheeses that I know would have bothered the hell out of me in the past.
The biggest difference, surprisingly, is just always saying "gl hf" and "gg" if I lose. Starting the game off in a positive frame of mind helps, and saying "gg," for whatever reason, gives a little closure to the game for me so that I'm not constantly thinking about a loss afterwards.
Now, there have been some moments of frustration, and I have caught myself getting heated in a couple of instances, and in those moments I've taken a second, gone over what happened in the game, and tried to at least make something positive come from it. The most important thing is that I'm not queueing right away. Getting up from the computer and taking a walk around my place also helps. But yes, so far, things have been going much better.
Good to hear you're feeling better.
I had a problem with tilt for a while when playing poker. I realize this may not be exactly as your problem. But it turns out I was studying to hard at the university. It took me a couple of years of rest to get back to my normal self.
I wish I would have taken my early warning signs of tilt more seriously. This way I would have avoided getting to the point where I had to rest for that long.
So if I were you I would take a look at my life to see if you are where you want to be. If everyhing is ok then nvm my post ;-)
All I know is the best attitude to have is the love of the game/sport/field
When I played college tennis, I would begin each match by telling myself: "Good luck to this other guy. He's going to need it." When my opponent made a good play, I acknowledged his good play and even was happy for it. His good play enhanced the quality of our match.
Seen in this light, you play to increase your level of performance, not just win the point/game/match. The same can be applied to SC2 and other things in life.
When I decided to run a marathon, I realized that competing against other people is stupid. (and I am a very competitive person). It's better to compete against yourself. Set your own standards and be impressed when others out-perform them. Playfully challenge them to out-perform you and wish them luck, knowing YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE IT YOUR DAMN BEST. And if they beat your best, so be it.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
yeah I mean it's not as if he's putting his own health or the lives of others at risk so it's clearly not a serious issue
if you could solve the issue by yourself I think you would have done it by now, don't play the game any time before you need to drive, that would be very irresponsible for you
and yes you should probably talk to a professional, even if it's only just once, what you're describing isn't at all normal and even if it's just related to starcraft at the moment you shouldn't avoid confronting this as it seems very dangerous and harmful
maybe you can deal with this issue yourself but maybe you can't and it's always going to be much easier with the help of a professional
1. I m not the OP. Dont mix that up please. 2. Why should you run to a therpaist of one behaviour is not considered normal? I think that adds to charakter depth if it is within certain boundaries. 3. "Dangerous and harmful", total exaggeration, you might also give the advice that if you are stressed out and angry, dont be around people because you might hit them.
Just totally out of proportion. It also doesnt help your own life experience if you run to a therapist when you have a minor issue instead of trying to fix it by yourself.
The second part of the post was addressed to the OP not you, I know you're not the op.
He said that he drives recklessly and at one point was close to requiring surgery, if this isn't 'dangerous and harmful' behaviour then I really don't what is. How you can see behaviour like this to be acceptable and normal is beyond me.
I really don't think what you're saying about 'running to a therapist' is at all appropriate. Everything OP has said implies that he isn't in control of the situation and has no idea why it's happening, coupled with the fact that he's hurting himself and exhibiting extreme behaviour I think it should be pretty clear that he needs help of some sort.
Obviously you just have some kind of personal issue with the idea of therapy. I don't want to be over the top but you seem very stupid.
On May 14 2013 03:00 Clbull wrote: Kinda funny I asked this exact same question on the TL Strategy forum and on the Blogs section months ago and got badmouthed and called a fucking asshole.
Read your blog. It's reasonable why people called you an asshole because you were an asshole. There is rage when you take it out on yourself, like in OP's case, banging his fist on the table. Then there's people who lash out at other people, that's BM. Raging and taking it out on your opponent is much worse than taking it out on yourself.
How goes the games Lauriel? You should keep us posted on your mood while you play now. Ever since IdrA got the cut for his own issues rage has become quite the topic.
I honestly wish I could tell you guys a sure fire way to stop raging at a video game, but really I can only describe it as "snapping" one day and just not feel ticked off by anything. It's not a progressive type of thing, it just happens. I have never heard of a person slowly changing a personality trait of their's through some procedure. They either except their personality trait or dismiss it, or they don't even know they had a choice to do so in the beginning and may or may not refuse to see the fact that they have a choice. To me it's like an on and off switch. I shock myself times when I realize how calm and collected I am after losing to an all-in in ZvZ, 6pool with like 4 drones pulled and 2 spines down. That was one of the biggest triggers to make me flip my table over, and now with my switch turned off I simply just grumble a bit say my 'gg', think about it and remind myself to do this and this next time I spot it with my ovie.
There are times when I turn the switch back on though. Of course I never do any of that fist slamming anymore, but it's more like scolding. I play WoW Arena with my buds pretty competitively, and I remember this one time with lost to something for the 4 th time in a row. I was pretty pissed, because it was something we had seen over and over yet we still weren't prepared for it. My friends did their usual "damn, ugh, goddammit, I dunno man" routine and queued up for another game. I put my foot down and addressed the issue, and we worked together to get a solution. Not necessarily the rage we have in mind, but I still think that it counts as rage because I'm emotionally fired up and I'm in a state of mind where I could say things that are meaningless in terms of improvement. Here I took that emotion and tried to use it constructively. I was pissed, I don't get pissed for real that often when it came to Arena, my teammates could feel it so they listened carefully and responded accordingly.
Constructive rage and blind rage, let's use those token words.
Actually, so far so good! I've probably logged about 100 games since posting this thread, and I haven't raged once, despite losing to several cheeses that I know would have bothered the hell out of me in the past.
The biggest difference, surprisingly, is just always saying "gl hf" and "gg" if I lose. Starting the game off in a positive frame of mind helps, and saying "gg," for whatever reason, gives a little closure to the game for me so that I'm not constantly thinking about a loss afterwards.
Now, there have been some moments of frustration, and I have caught myself getting heated in a couple of instances, and in those moments I've taken a second, gone over what happened in the game, and tried to at least make something positive come from it. The most important thing is that I'm not queueing right away. Getting up from the computer and taking a walk around my place also helps. But yes, so far, things have been going much better.
Good on you! We're so glad you're doing well! I'm learning too how to be a better player from reading this thread. Thanks for starting this thread, and all the best with your new found success with your anger!
Also sc2 isn´t a game to "relax". Atleast when you play ladder. Many of my friends made this mistake and were frustrated because they couldn´t relax with laddering. It´s like i´m going to swim to have fun but there´s always a swimming contest and i´m forced to participate. So i told them if you want to relax after work in the evening don´t play sc2. Or play arcade but don´t play ladder if you want to relax. It´ll frustrate you.
On May 13 2013 15:12 Lauriel wrote: Well, I am a very competitive person, and I hate losing in real life as much as I hate losing at online games. I think the difference is that in real life I can take steps that I know will help me perform better in the area at which I'm performing under par. In games, there is no way to go back in time and play better. Instead, you can just play better in the next game. I think that realization bothered me, because I hate not being able to go back and fix the things I did wrong against the opponents I lost to.
I know that feeling. Sometimes it happens to lose a game for a minor mistake and you can't go back and remove it. However that's exactly what I meant with uncorrect approch to the games you play. To fix this you have to consider two things.
Firstly of all, you must realize that ladder games can be pretty casual. Random opponents, maps, even your mental condition (and thus the performance) is partially random and depending on which time you play, etc. Ladder games are just a path for self improvement. And since you are not a pro, self-improvement and fun are the only goals you must pursue.
Secondly, you should also take in account that none is perfect and we all make mistakes or, sometimes, we have bad luck. Based on this you have to accept the losses and move on. The best way to do this without too many consequences is giving a reason to each particular loss and learn from it for the future. Whatever is the reason (NB actual reason not an excuse) just try to learn something from it.
So don't take the games you play too seriously. Just focus on the long run. Once you start noticing the improvements you made through the time you will automatically forgot the past losses and also realize how stupid is overeacting with anger after a single one.
Day[9] actually talked about this topic after Idra's release and he has really good advice to give on the subject. While its partly about Idra, its really about managing anger in a constructive way and him speaking of a part of himself we don't see.
On May 09 2013 09:13 FromShouri wrote: I completely understand where you're coming from, when I was 15 I punched a hole in the wall because a rogue wouldn't stop ganking me in WoW XD. Though, it honestly is quite simple, just get over it. No one is going to give a shit about your leet starcraft skills, nor will you ever get good enough to play in GSL or MLG and get a good ranking. Just let it go and make a concious effort to stay in control....that said, maybe you should try some drugs xD
The WoW thing happened to me too. I was a lvl 22 night elf druid and some asshole kept camping my body. I've never wanted to stab someone in the face sooooo bad.
Can people please stop saying that it's just a game, because it isn't. Checkers is just a game, Tetris is just a game, hop skotch and hangman are just games. For the people who've taken enough time to register on this forum, read strategy guides, memorize build orders, and watch streams; it is obviously more than a game. It's an obsession that you receive pleasure from; it's a point of focus in your life that builds pride as your skill progresses. You cheapen it by referring to it as just "some game."
On May 14 2013 06:24 Vlade wrote: It's interesting how StarCraft seems to be able to incite such rage, to where people who don't have problems with any other games get furious at this game. I read some threads about this a while ago, it's probably a combination of several factors:
1. It's a Demanding Game
SC requires your absolute full attention, always. No matter how intensely you play, you are aware that the game demands more from you than you can physically or mentally deliver. Your body responds with adrenaline and an activated fight-or-flight response.
2. There's Only One Winner
No matter how you slice it, one person is going to lose the game. No matter how confident or brilliant the two players are, one will emerge a winner and the other a loser, and there are no points or accolades for losing by a small or large margin.
3. You Are Forced to Admit Defeat
Unless you wait for every single one of your buildings to explode, the way to leave a game of SC requires you to surrender to your opponent, acknowledging his win and cementing your awareness of your loss at the same time.
4. It Requires a Huge Time Investment
Learning to play StarCraft even at an average level is much harder than most people give themselves credit for. Playing at a high level is harder than many University courses you could take, and the sheer time investment you need to learn the basics alone, the hundreds and thousands of games to just scratch the surface, can frustrate many people who believe they should be rewarded for this effort.
5. It's Always Your Fault
When you lose, it's often very hard for people to take responsibility for their loss, especially after the extended period of heightened effort and anxiety that preceded it. The first, and most common response, is to blame the game, even though people know that a better player could have won with one hand tied behind his back. The reason you lost always traces back to a mistake (or series of mistakes) that you made, that the opponent (knowingly or not) capitalized on. However, as many people find it hard to take responsibility for things, they often flame the developers or players.
--------------------
Of course as stated before, these are conventions, but if we're looking for the "reasons" for the rage, you don't have to look much farther than this. Long story short, your body's physiology is responding to the demanding and ruthless "survival of the fittest" situation it finds itself in, which is what it naturally does. When you lose and you no longer need the chemicals, you suddenly find yourself sitting at your computer with a wounded ego and adrenaline in your veins. What do you think that leads to?
+1. You have gotten to the core of the issue here.
My advice in combination with this brilliant post is:
Don't try and play like a pro. Just play slowly, keep up good scouting, and don't try and push your skill level past what you are capable of. I'm in Platinum and I don't stress too much about having perfect macro or perfect scouting.
Dignitas' Apollo once said in one of his tutorial videos that "Playing fast is not just for the sake of it; it simply means you know exactly what to do and when to do it."
Think clearly and slowly and play with a low APM and just breathe. This is how I get into my "zone".
After a while you start naturally playing faster and making better decisions because you are not forcing or pushing yourself to do so because you feel you need to. Let it come in a healthy way. Lose your first few games. It's okay. Warm into it. Just take it easy on yourself. Don't punish yourself for bad play, don't feel bad and don't over-analyze.
Also if your heart isn't in it, then your mind will not follow. Rage can be caused because your forcing your mind to play a very difficult game. Love it, or leave it.
Professional gamers are professional because they have a very strong control over their emotions. (with exception of a few well known players). They lose a game, gg out as soon as they recognize a loss, then get on with it. This game requires a tough mind. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Lastly, say this to yourself a few times before playing:
"I am in complete control of my thoughts and emotions; If I get angry, or frustrated, I am choosing to be. No-one is responsible for how I'm feeling"
On May 14 2013 03:00 Clbull wrote: Kinda funny I asked this exact same question on the TL Strategy forum and on the Blogs section months ago and got badmouthed and called a fucking asshole.
Read your blog. It's reasonable why people called you an asshole because you were an asshole. There is rage when you take it out on yourself, like in OP's case, banging his fist on the table. Then there's people who lash out at other people, that's BM. Raging and taking it out on your opponent is much worse than taking it out on yourself.
How goes the games Lauriel? You should keep us posted on your mood while you play now. Ever since IdrA got the cut for his own issues rage has become quite the topic.
I honestly wish I could tell you guys a sure fire way to stop raging at a video game, but really I can only describe it as "snapping" one day and just not feel ticked off by anything. It's not a progressive type of thing, it just happens. I have never heard of a person slowly changing a personality trait of their's through some procedure. They either except their personality trait or dismiss it, or they don't even know they had a choice to do so in the beginning and may or may not refuse to see the fact that they have a choice. To me it's like an on and off switch. I shock myself times when I realize how calm and collected I am after losing to an all-in in ZvZ, 6pool with like 4 drones pulled and 2 spines down. That was one of the biggest triggers to make me flip my table over, and now with my switch turned off I simply just grumble a bit say my 'gg', think about it and remind myself to do this and this next time I spot it with my ovie.
There are times when I turn the switch back on though. Of course I never do any of that fist slamming anymore, but it's more like scolding. I play WoW Arena with my buds pretty competitively, and I remember this one time with lost to something for the 4 th time in a row. I was pretty pissed, because it was something we had seen over and over yet we still weren't prepared for it. My friends did their usual "damn, ugh, goddammit, I dunno man" routine and queued up for another game. I put my foot down and addressed the issue, and we worked together to get a solution. Not necessarily the rage we have in mind, but I still think that it counts as rage because I'm emotionally fired up and I'm in a state of mind where I could say things that are meaningless in terms of improvement. Here I took that emotion and tried to use it constructively. I was pissed, I don't get pissed for real that often when it came to Arena, my teammates could feel it so they listened carefully and responded accordingly.
Constructive rage and blind rage, let's use those token words.
Actually, so far so good! I've probably logged about 100 games since posting this thread, and I haven't raged once, despite losing to several cheeses that I know would have bothered the hell out of me in the past.
The biggest difference, surprisingly, is just always saying "gl hf" and "gg" if I lose. Starting the game off in a positive frame of mind helps, and saying "gg," for whatever reason, gives a little closure to the game for me so that I'm not constantly thinking about a loss afterwards.
Now, there have been some moments of frustration, and I have caught myself getting heated in a couple of instances, and in those moments I've taken a second, gone over what happened in the game, and tried to at least make something positive come from it. The most important thing is that I'm not queueing right away. Getting up from the computer and taking a walk around my place also helps. But yes, so far, things have been going much better.
Nice. Sounds great man. From my experience, if things are going the way you say it is, you are directly on the road to never raging again. You just wake up one day, and you stop raging at your losses. Soon you'll find that this will directly give a positive influence on your real life experiences. Having a hobby where you can have fun and be positive is an amazing thing.
On May 13 2013 10:04 Sokrates wrote: It is really interesting how people from the US are advising therapy for such a minor issue. Paying a lot of money to rage less in sc2 sounds really weird to me. And i also think the OP can fix his issues by himself...
I really wonder if this "go see a therapist" thing is something you would get recommended in the US more often than in other (western) countries.
yeah I mean it's not as if he's putting his own health or the lives of others at risk so it's clearly not a serious issue
if you could solve the issue by yourself I think you would have done it by now, don't play the game any time before you need to drive, that would be very irresponsible for you
and yes you should probably talk to a professional, even if it's only just once, what you're describing isn't at all normal and even if it's just related to starcraft at the moment you shouldn't avoid confronting this as it seems very dangerous and harmful
maybe you can deal with this issue yourself but maybe you can't and it's always going to be much easier with the help of a professional
1. I m not the OP. Dont mix that up please. 2. Why should you run to a therpaist of one behaviour is not considered normal? I think that adds to charakter depth if it is within certain boundaries. 3. "Dangerous and harmful", total exaggeration, you might also give the advice that if you are stressed out and angry, dont be around people because you might hit them.
Just totally out of proportion. It also doesnt help your own life experience if you run to a therapist when you have a minor issue instead of trying to fix it by yourself.
The second part of the post was addressed to the OP not you, I know you're not the op.
He said that he drives recklessly and at one point was close to requiring surgery, if this isn't 'dangerous and harmful' behaviour then I really don't what is. How you can see behaviour like this to be acceptable and normal is beyond me.
I really don't think what you're saying about 'running to a therapist' is at all appropriate. Everything OP has said implies that he isn't in control of the situation and has no idea why it's happening, coupled with the fact that he's hurting himself and exhibiting extreme behaviour I think it should be pretty clear that he needs help of some sort.
Obviously you just have some kind of personal issue with the idea of therapy. I don't want to be over the top but you seem very stupid.
How about you read my other points instead of lashing out insults. As i said before there are many steps you can take before you invest a lot of money into something that you can sort out by yourself. I think the OP was aware he needs some sort of help by opening his threads and asking for ideas how to calm his rage. Just because people are not instantly agreeing on you with "get therapy" doesnt mean they are stupid. Very "childish" approach by you, mb you should get some kind of... nevermind. Apperantly it is working out for the OP so far.
When you're playing, you should always remember that this is only a game, you should be having fun and that losing isn't a big deal. When you've lost, accept the fact that you lost because of a mistake you made and take a break. After that come back and watch the replay to see what went wrong, then learn from it. If losing in this game really bothers you too much though, I don't think you should be playing this game.
It's funny to see this thread after encountering some people here on the boards who seem to be so sensitive and angry over petty stuff like that eSF vs. KeSPA (or KeSPA vs. eSF, whatever) shenanigans.
Remember that humans are vulnerable creatures, some more than others, and the little things can get embedded deeply into our minds, most of the times without us being conscious of it.
So start with your mind, and try to analyze how your feelings are being triggered by certain stimuli. By being conscious about the stimuli, you should have better control over your mind and body.
I appreciate you are absolutely convinced it's just the game that makes you angry, and it might indeed appear so, as you as are - as you describe a productive and responsible adult otherwise. However, as with all unhealthy emotional reactions that humans can suffer from, the trigger isn't the cause, and often times the trigger doesn't even hint at the cause but is rather a faulty circuit your psyche has created to deal with a subconscious psychological conflict to vent the excessive negative emotion that is pent up.
The short answer is, for all the kind words, no one here can help you deal with or fix your problem. From what you have described, there's a real risk here of you harming yourself further, it's imperative that you seek professional counsel e.g. a therapist, preferably a psychiatrist who can help you discover the underlying reasons for your anger. This might be very hard to do and will take a substantial amount of time but you will grow from it. You might doubt that there are any underlying reasons but I'm certain there are, the behaviour you describe is so far removed from adequate behaviour, it's a given.
You need to figure out why you're angry and learn to relieve your anger in a healthy fashion. And my advice as an MD would be to do so sooner rather than later. You might indeed learn to stop raging while playing starcraft on your own, but 5 years from now it might all return when your 18 month old has spilt her juice all over her highchair or your wife talks back to you in a way you don't like, and at that point you might not only be at risk of harming yourself but others as well.
edit: seeing that you're from the US, not knowing your healthplan works, I suggest getting in touch with your insurance first and ask them how you can get yourself psychiatrically explored, you might have to go see your family physician first. Just tell him/her what you told the forum.
On May 09 2013 08:57 HeeroFX wrote: i know you said this before but maybe you should grow up? What I mean by this is look at your life and say "is losing a match in a video game I play for fun a big deal?" Sure we all get frustrated, when we lose, but grown ups move past those frustrating moments and power through them. But no offense I feel like your one of those people who shouldn't play video games you can lose at because of the fact you wrote:
1. Slamming my fists into any objects around me with such force and consistency that I have damaged the nerves in my hands, wrists, and fingers several times, sometimes requiring months to heal. At one point I thought I was going to need surgery for a nerve impingement, but was fortunate to be able to avoid it. 2. Throwing, damaging, and breaking objects around me. Yesterday, I managed to slam 4 or 5 keys off of my $120.00 mechanical keyboard. Fortunately I was able to find them and re-attach them and it still works (good on you, Corsair!). 3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst. I was actually cited for a noise violation by my apartment complex late last year for this and the associated slamming and banging. 4. Speeding and driving semi-recklessly when I have to go somewhere after playing and losing a few matches. This is the scariest thing, because I could, y'know, die, or cause someone else to die.
really tells me that you need to grow up, get mental help, don't play the game. Hope this helps you, I am not trying to be mean, but your situation is pretty stupid.
Such a stupid answer and ignorant statement ... Many mental conditions exist, on different level, that can cause people to loose control or do things they know they shouldn't.
TO THE OP: I'd say it's a state of mind, you're obviously a competitive person and you enjoy it, therefore you also get frustrated when loosing (whatever the reason). I've witnessed some people experiencing truely debilitating mental issues and it's not something to take lightly. All the nice talk and good advice on how to feel or how to put yourself in the right state of mind can surely help but they require you to do an incredibly unnatural amount of work on yourself (you're litteraly going against your own nature ...). And there's no user manual to dealing with this unfortunately.
If you think you can't handle it (which very few people can and there's nothing to be ashamed of), your best solution is to talk about it with a specialist and deal with it step by step.
I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestions to find external sources to help you calm down more easily and appropriately, and there's also a very high chance that something else is going on that you might not be addressing.
If it's as simple as the game itself, you will see that in time. If there's something more serious underlying this, you WILL need professional assistance, and that is NOT something to be ashamed of (proper English be damned). Better now than later, trust me. Do what must be done.
On May 09 2013 09:13 Lauriel wrote: To everyone saying "quit and get professional help," thank you for your input, but I'm not going to respond, simply because it's a last resort, and I'm looking for solutions that will prevent me from going to that end. I also don't have the money for professional help, and have no interest in talking to a psychiatrist about gaming rage that they probably don't understand to begin with.
Again, thank you for the input though. It is noted.
3. Screaming in fits of rage that lasts for anywhere from 30-45 minutes at their worst.
This does not sound like gaming rage. This isn't like punching a locker after losing a sports game. That's not even punching your keyboard. I mean, you can try slamming your thigh instead of a breakable object, but your behavior sounds kind of disturbing and it doesn't sound like it's just about competition. :/
Maybe not a psychiatrist, but there are psychologists or counselors who could help.
On May 10 2013 00:47 Lauriel wrote: Also, for those mentioning the screaming or fits of rage, the screaming doesn't actually last terribly long. It's the staying angry that lasts for a good while. And I'm certain that I'm not schizophrenic, nor do I need medication. The problem is mindset and perspective - I'm virtually certain.
Neither us nor you have the expertise or perspective to make that judgment. You are certainly not capable of keeping an objective perspective in this regard, no one is. That's why you should see someone. You're describing very serious symptoms that are not common among people playing video games and sound potentially harmful. Saying "you know yourself and it's just about mindset" is an absolute cop out. You're not in the correct position to make that judgment. Neither are we. A professional might be.
I have to agree with Jibba. The chemical induced rage / anger is not lasting this long. It lasts seconds, where you can easily smash something if you're not used to dealing with it. You should get used to this though over a longer period of experiencing it, if you dont always use the "smash" reaction and prevent it from becoming a habit.
Being really angry over a longer period is a bigger problem. Especially if it's affecting other things in your life (driving, your neighbours, ...). But reading your responses in this thread makes me think you're not interested in a solution. You dont really explain your thoughts / mindset in those situations. Looks more like you search for others with similar behavior, to convince yourself that it's normal. But when others agree with you - most of them talk about those 5sec of rage. Not lasting anger. That's not normal.
That the OP would even think about continuing to play SC2 despite all this is a testament to the addictive power of video games. Lol seriously, why the FUCK are you still playing SC2 bro? Are you that addicted to this game? And why does your gf allow you to play? Something is wrong here.
On May 15 2013 18:43 UPro-BW wrote: start another game and rush the shit out of them
But, if they did this than the other person might rage, leading them to rush their next opponent and causing a never-ending wave of rushers. Games may never get to the 7 minute mark again!
On May 15 2013 18:43 UPro-BW wrote: start another game and rush the shit out of them
But, if they did this than the other person might rage, leading them to rush their next opponent and causing a never-ending wave of rushers. Games may never get to the 7 minute mark again!
I think its because you probably watch pro games and love the game. because of your love for sc2 you naturally want to play, have fun, using builds you see, and own some players on ladder, this is where your rage comes from! the problem with this is when you lose. When you feel like you lose to stupidness, or lose to something you scouted (which angers me the most), or just lose , the problem is you are losing to someone when you try your absolute hardest. its like your striving to be the best you can be, but keep getting knocked back down to make you feel like shit. --- you take the game too seriously --- Maybe instead of copying "the pros" you should play more for fun and ---care less--- about winning. do you care about your ladder rank a lot? try builds for fun like 2rax reaper or roach bane all in, or proxy oracles and see if you can win just for fun. try funny cool builds for fun and play aggressive builds. when you play like this and lose its not like losing, only more like your build not working lol if that makes sense. what im trying to say is that it feels better to lose when you tryto play for fun instead of playing super macro and losing to cheese or losing in general. when you care too much about winning, then you also care too much about losing.
---you have to deal with your losses, that is one of the main dillemas you are facing---******
I don't care if i lose because i dont care about my rank. i just care about getting better. knowing that even if i lose, just learn from how i lost (even if its from a stupid mistake). for example if i lose to dts, "oh okay i should scout and make a turret nextime and make sure i dont die to that anymore". instead of being like SHIITT FUCK DD*****SKFDASKsd isuuuck i hate life. LOSING MAKES YOU BETTER. watch your replays, you will see how close the games you lose really are. this will motivate you to change small things in your play to win the next game. ---focus on improving instead of losing or winning--- if you learn (like i did) to not care about losing and only care about improving , that is seeing HOW you lost. then you will lose less to things you normally lose to. you will win more. and you will have fun. remember. if your not having fun , your not playing a game, your playing a sport. your not a pro. play for fun , improve, and be thankful for your awesome life! (wife and job , success!) if you want you can add me ingame i will coach you or play with you!! :D
i hope you solve your rage problem much luck to you!
I think you should quit SC2, I did, after I threw my keyboard out of my window after WINNING against someone who played like an idiot and made me very frustrated.
I rage more when I win than when I lose, but really, you should either quit SC2 and find something else, or go into games with a different mindset, something that I failed to do after many attempts.
On May 15 2013 23:07 Doodsmack wrote: That the OP would even think about continuing to play SC2 despite all this is a testament to the addictive power of video games. Lol seriously, why the FUCK are you still playing SC2 bro? Are you that addicted to this game? And why does your gf allow you to play? Something is wrong here.
Competitive multiplayer games are the most addictive by far.
I appreciate you are absolutely convinced it's just the game that makes you angry, and it might indeed appear so, as you as are - as you describe a productive and responsible adult otherwise. However, as with all unhealthy emotional reactions that humans can suffer from, the trigger isn't the cause, and often times the trigger doesn't even hint at the cause but is rather a faulty circuit your psyche has created to deal with a subconscious psychological conflict to vent the excessive negative emotion that is pent up.
The short answer is, for all the kind words, no one here can help you deal with or fix your problem. From what you have described, there's a real risk here of you harming yourself further, it's imperative that you seek professional counsel e.g. a therapist, preferably a psychiatrist who can help you discover the underlying reasons for your anger. This might be very hard to do and will take a substantial amount of time but you will grow from it. You might doubt that there are any underlying reasons but I'm certain there are, the behaviour you describe is so far removed from adequate behaviour, it's a given.
You need to figure out why you're angry and learn to relieve your anger in a healthy fashion. And my advice as an MD would be to do so sooner rather than later. You might indeed learn to stop raging while playing starcraft on your own, but 5 years from now it might all return when your 18 month old has spilt her juice all over her highchair or your wife talks back to you in a way you don't like, and at that point you might not only be at risk of harming yourself but others as well.
edit: seeing that you're from the US, not knowing your healthplan works, I suggest getting in touch with your insurance first and ask them how you can get yourself psychiatrically explored, you might have to go see your family physician first. Just tell him/her what you told the forum.
I believe he is right, but this is on the long run so you should start it asap.
On May 09 2013 09:01 Lauriel wrote: Losing several games in a row and often times to cheeses or strategies that prevent me from practicing what I want can set it off. That's the biggest thing.
However, you have to learn when to stop, you are feeling the urge to imitate hulk after a few loses then stop playing before that. Cheeses? sorry, nothing you can do about them, is part of the game deal with it or just quit that game and play again.
You want to practice certain strategy, get a friend to practice with.
On May 15 2013 23:07 Doodsmack wrote: That the OP would even think about continuing to play SC2 despite all this is a testament to the addictive power of video games. Lol seriously, why the FUCK are you still playing SC2 bro? Are you that addicted to this game? And why does your gf allow you to play? Something is wrong here.
Competitive multiplayer games are the most addictive by far.
Yea but when you are actually turning in a danger for yourself and for others, it's time to put a serious hold on it, no matter how addictive.
I think it's definitely worth seeing a therapist, and maybe even considering a sports psychologist if you aren't seeing this sort of anger in other facets of your life.
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I'm sure people are much more realistic about their physical limitations than their mental ones. I believe that it is much easier to dismiss a loss in a team sport, as well, since you're able to spread the 'blame' out a little.
You might have never gotten pissed off at teammates in football who don't give 100% when you feel like you're giving 150%, but I have. You may have never been enraged by a punch to the face, but it would sure as hell set me off 100x more than losing to a no-scout 6pool on a 4player map.
I'm not sure what "type" of personality I am, but I'd like to think that I have a fiercely competitive nature and I'm quick to anger. It's just realizing where you're going mentally before you get there and pulling yourself out of it before you punch a wall over some stupid shit. I've been playing SC2 since release and have only ever ignored 2 people out of innumerable shit-talkers. It's actually fun to laugh at all the offensive shit people say when they win / lose and not even justify it with a response. Don't feed the trolls and you'll find they annoy you less.
I think the core of the issue of extreme gaming rage is that this game (and many others) is easy to learn and difficult to master. It helps to understand that it was designed that way. Blizzard wants as many people as possible to play the game. So they make the controls as easy as possible to learn, they make macro easy, give auto-splitting miners etc. In the basic elements of the game, there's no random stuff that made it past the design team that arbitrarily makes the game extremely difficult.
Some people, in my opinion people who are more prone to a lack of self-control, flock towards games like this because of the easy rode at the beginning. It gives one a huge ego boost, and a sense of control, to be able to master easy stuff quickly and reap the rewards. There's no need to think of one's opponent, because it's more of a question of who can field more information for himself. Then as things get harder and the design team isn't holding your hand making things easy for you, you progress in dribs and drabs because of this over-reliance on the initially accessible design aspects of the game. I think anyone would find this type of improvement frustrating. It's less of a learning experience. It might seem like your opponent who wins against you has some secret knowledge, but really he's just reaching into places the design team weren't looking.
I played team games exclusively back in Wc3 and SC2 wol. I went as far as slamming my fists on stupid games that went like 60+ mins ending in a loss especially back then for WC3 4's random team (anyone who's played it realized most of those games were trollfests and lots of dicking around). Now I play mostly DOTA 2 games, and as anyone knows there's a ton of stuff that induces people to rage and flame, which imo is ok because i think it's better to let it out then keep it in, and there are things people can do to when one guy goes off (e.g. mute, report).
So many years later since WC3, hopefully I believe I "grew up" as one like op should as well, and realizes you can't always rage (admittingly it's harder in team games, then to blame yourself in solo games like SC2). If one is a recipient of someone's flames during a game, understand that some people also have a winning mentality and you should grow a thicker skin. Games are just so competitive these days, not like the good old days of single player Super Mario Bros
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I'm sure people are much more realistic about their physical limitations than their mental ones. I believe that it is much easier to dismiss a loss in a team sport, as well, since you're able to spread the 'blame' out a little.
You might have never gotten pissed off at teammates in football who don't give 100% when you feel like you're giving 150%, but I have. You may have never been enraged by a punch to the face, but it would sure as hell set me off 100x more than losing to a no-scout 6pool on a 4player map.
I'm not sure what "type" of personality I am, but I'd like to think that I have a fiercely competitive nature and I'm quick to anger. It's just realizing where you're going mentally before you get there and pulling yourself out of it before you punch a wall over some stupid shit. I've been playing SC2 since release and have only ever ignored 2 people out of innumerable shit-talkers. It's actually fun to laugh at all the offensive shit people say when they win / lose and not even justify it with a response. Don't feed the trolls and you'll find they annoy you less.
I don't know, I'm as hard on myself in physical sports as I am in any other area of life, and I'd say I have higher expectations of myself in terms of physical prowess than I do with regard to how well I play a game like SC2. Some of the sports I played competitively, there's no one else to blame but myself, so I don't think it's a matter of being able to blame others.
Different strokes, I suppose. Everyone is different. Where a punch in the face might make you angry, it just makes me clinical. Where a loss in a close game where your enemy is spamming tier one on 2 bases and you're desperately trying to hold it with tier 3 and 4 bases might not make you angry at all, it makes me want to reach through the screen and strangle someone
Who knows why it is; but I still suggest the OP buy a heavy bag
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I'm sure people are much more realistic about their physical limitations than their mental ones. I believe that it is much easier to dismiss a loss in a team sport, as well, since you're able to spread the 'blame' out a little.
You might have never gotten pissed off at teammates in football who don't give 100% when you feel like you're giving 150%, but I have. You may have never been enraged by a punch to the face, but it would sure as hell set me off 100x more than losing to a no-scout 6pool on a 4player map.
I'm not sure what "type" of personality I am, but I'd like to think that I have a fiercely competitive nature and I'm quick to anger. It's just realizing where you're going mentally before you get there and pulling yourself out of it before you punch a wall over some stupid shit. I've been playing SC2 since release and have only ever ignored 2 people out of innumerable shit-talkers. It's actually fun to laugh at all the offensive shit people say when they win / lose and not even justify it with a response. Don't feed the trolls and you'll find they annoy you less.
I don't know, I'm as hard on myself in physical sports as I am in any other area of life, and I'd say I have higher expectations of myself in terms of physical prowess than I do with regard to how well I play a game like SC2. Some of the sports I played competitively, there's no one else to blame but myself, so I don't think it's a matter of being able to blame others.
Different strokes, I suppose. Everyone is different. Where a punch in the face might make you angry, it just makes me clinical. Where a loss in a close game where your enemy is spamming tier one on 2 bases and you're desperately trying to hold it with tier 3 and 4 bases might not make you angry at all, it makes me want to reach through the screen and strangle someone
Who knows why it is; but I still suggest the OP buy a heavy bag
The entire discussion of Tier 1 / 2 / 3 is actually much more complicated than you may think. The ideal counter to "Tier 3" units is to abuse their immobility and heavy cost. The easiest way to do this, believe it or not, is cheap, fast units or as you call them "Tier 1".
Oddly enough, despite the cost differences between these units, the supply is what matters. You might think "snarf, I have T3, he has T1, why am I losing?" when really, it's X supply of stimmed 3-3 marines with medivacs vs what you thought was a cute idea to tech switch to 1-0 Carriers.
If you actually think about it, why in the hell would you not also make cheap units with a better economy? By teching up to Tier 3, which is overrated, btw, you piss away your economical advantage and have a smaller and less mobile army. This allows your opponent to be in more places and to have a larger supply than you. In essence, you're not losing to Tier 1 that is overpowered, you're beating yourself by picking the wrong way to handle the situation you're in.
Yes, get mad at yourself; you fucked up, but don't hurt yourself (damaging your hands will make you worse at the game - it turns out hands are pretty important). Don't bother getting mad at your opponent; rather, be impressed by your opponent's ability to beat your terrible strategy and try to understand why it was terrible. Don't get mad at David Kim; the game's pretty balanced and fully upgraded Tier 1 might as well be Tier 3 - for the most part, it's better.
EDIT: I won't suggest that the OP by a heavy bag. Rather, he needs to learn more self-discipline. Punching shit is almost the worst thing you can do after losing a game. Feeling like you need to punch or hurt things when you're angry is a sign that you're not as rational as you think. You might take good grades, but that doesn't make you smart or in control of yourself.
Holy shit though, it's just a game, how do you flip out over it? If your anger is that bad, how did you get through life? Did you just avoid all team sports/games growing up?
On May 16 2013 05:29 EAGER-beaver wrote: Guns don't kill people, starcraft losing streaks kill people!
Holy shit though, it's just a game, how do you flip out over it? If your anger is that bad, how did you get through life? Did you just avoid all team sports/games growing up?
Usually in team sports or games the amount of information that you have at all times is enough to tell you why you lost, and you're able to see with your own eyes that your opponent(s) played better than you. I find that the lack of information in SC leaves one quite mystified as to how they lost and this confusion can lead to anger (particularly during the moments immediately after / during the game, when the adrenaline is going and your senses are heightened). Take someone who is in their comfort zone in day-to-day life and subject them to the unfamiliar sensation of loss and confusion or disdain for the way in which they lost, and that seemingly normal person can get quite upset.
Take the "amped" state that they're in into consideration; not everybody is relaxed and calm when they play (you might call it being nervous). Personally, I feel a sense of fear & excitement during 1v1 play (especially tournament play) and find myself trying to suppress these emotions while playing so that they don't give me tunnel-vision. During this time, I'd say I'm much more susceptible to emotional responses highs / lows. Personal experience is the only thing I can reference.
EDIT: You really are battling yourself and your opponent in SC, and also trying to make rational, correct decisions all the while. Such a good game for people who can control their psyche.
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I like your explanation, I think there's something to it. I wouldn't want to tell anyone how to deal with it since these things are very personal/individual and what works for me might not work for you, but I have a suggestion.
I think telling yourself it's just a video game, i.e. trivializing it, is only part of the solution, and not a satisfying solution if you want to compete, if you want the feeling that you're in a battle and give it all you got, which is when winning is so damn satisfying.
What I'd suggest ist that you try and shift your focus towards playing well rather than winning. This is where the other guy cannot force his will upon you. You go into the match thinking 'ok, that guy will do whatever he can to beat me, as will I to beat him. That is our job as opponents. I'll try to do my job well. If I lose, at some point I haven't done my job.' Take the opponent as a given. Take it as a given that he will be annoying and will be pestering you and throw shit at you. That's his job. That's the situation you are going into voluntarily to see how you hold up. Let him do what he wants and focus on holding up. Specifically, that means to focus on not getting supply blocked, on scouting, expanding, and so on. Focusing on absolutely wanting to win is dead wrong. (That's what Idra recommended once - see where it got him. Amazing potential but never performing consistently because of bad attitude. I'm serious, and not spiteful. It's tragic.)
For an analogy, imagine you meet a girl you want. If you talk to her constantly thinking how you want to get her into bed, you will most likely suck at conversing with her, and she will see through it. In these situations, you perform when you don't have an agenda, when you're just doing your thing, having fun talking to her, not scheming and planning, just giving it the best you've got, being the best self you can be in the present situation and nowhere else.
On ladder, you can often tell when your opponent absolutely wants to win, is probably on a losing streak and pissed off. This is often what makes them cheese, and they rage even more when it doesn't work. This state of mind and focus should be avoided. The winning player on the other hand often is not the one with the most cunning plan or the most determination to win, but simply the one who didn't get fucking supply blocked as much and had a 15 worker lead. You do what you do. The opponent only has power over you if you give it to him.
Thinking about it, another thing that got me really really upset was losing to things that I just didn't know how to respond to. If I scouted something and knew it was coming, and still had absolutely no idea how to counter it, anger was quick to follow. It's just something I don't experience much in real life (having absolutely no idea how to respond).
Also, for the person who said I'm not interested in looking for a solution, I have to disagree. I never ruled out therapy or anything of that nature, but I'd like to try to see if I can solve the problem on my own first. So far (I know, small sample size) it's going well. Also, to the person who asked me to inquire with my insurance about therapy, I don't have insurance. I'm an independent contractor, which means that unless I go out of my way to purchase insurance for exorbitant prices, my medical insurance basically consists of just band-aids and asprin.
Honestly, I think you need to watch your own play more, rather than focus on other people's. And this is knowing you personally and talking to you for hours upon hours about Starcraft. I know both of us were stuck at a level for easily almost a year but I know for a fact you never went back to figure out what you did wrong, or right in a game. You talk about getting pigeon-holed because a race is *this and this stereotype*, which, while maybe true at a pro-level - so much of what you complain about literally doesn't affect you, or at least, doesn't affect you in the sense that it might affect a pro.
I don't know about you but I talk to people who are SO MUCH better than me at this game a lot, from all different races, and it makes me realize I'm utter crap still, and even if I look like I can do an MKP stutter step, I really fail in every other instance to become like MKP.
On May 16 2013 03:17 BlinkGosu wrote: Im literally disgusted that this thread is still here. Mod please Close this. inb4 warning
I never get posts like this, if you dont like a thread, just dont open it. Seems pretty simple.
On May 16 2013 04:22 Mjolnir wrote:
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I guess that is a big part of the sc2rage. Sometimes you get behind in the start, may it be due to you playing a more save opening, fucking up or cheesing yourself. Then you have the feeling "there is no way of comming back from this". You know that your opponent will just do x and y and therefore win the game. You know this is comming and you cant do anything about it, and then it goes they way you predicted it and yet the outcome is the same: you lose.
But it is not even about losing, in certain MUs you know it will go this way and you cant do nothing against it and you have to deal with it. For example in zvsz you know this "fucker" will go mutas and drone like a bitch (swear words are stylistic devices here) but you cant do anything but be more greedy and go mutas yourself. That really makes me angry sometimes, situations where you know your opponent is doing x but you cant really punish him for doing so.
Sometimes you do nothing wrong and still lose the game because the opponent took a huge risk and got away with it. Then you think to yourself "man i just should have allined him and win" and then sometimes you allin a guy because you think he is too greedy and he holds it.
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I'm sure people are much more realistic about their physical limitations than their mental ones. I believe that it is much easier to dismiss a loss in a team sport, as well, since you're able to spread the 'blame' out a little.
You might have never gotten pissed off at teammates in football who don't give 100% when you feel like you're giving 150%, but I have. You may have never been enraged by a punch to the face, but it would sure as hell set me off 100x more than losing to a no-scout 6pool on a 4player map.
I'm not sure what "type" of personality I am, but I'd like to think that I have a fiercely competitive nature and I'm quick to anger. It's just realizing where you're going mentally before you get there and pulling yourself out of it before you punch a wall over some stupid shit. I've been playing SC2 since release and have only ever ignored 2 people out of innumerable shit-talkers. It's actually fun to laugh at all the offensive shit people say when they win / lose and not even justify it with a response. Don't feed the trolls and you'll find they annoy you less.
I don't know, I'm as hard on myself in physical sports as I am in any other area of life, and I'd say I have higher expectations of myself in terms of physical prowess than I do with regard to how well I play a game like SC2. Some of the sports I played competitively, there's no one else to blame but myself, so I don't think it's a matter of being able to blame others.
Different strokes, I suppose. Everyone is different. Where a punch in the face might make you angry, it just makes me clinical. Where a loss in a close game where your enemy is spamming tier one on 2 bases and you're desperately trying to hold it with tier 3 and 4 bases might not make you angry at all, it makes me want to reach through the screen and strangle someone
Who knows why it is; but I still suggest the OP buy a heavy bag
The entire discussion of Tier 1 / 2 / 3 is actually much more complicated than you may think. The ideal counter to "Tier 3" units is to abuse their immobility and heavy cost. The easiest way to do this, believe it or not, is cheap, fast units or as you call them "Tier 1".
Oddly enough, despite the cost differences between these units, the supply is what matters. You might think "snarf, I have T3, he has T1, why am I losing?" when really, it's X supply of stimmed 3-3 marines with medivacs vs what you thought was a cute idea to tech switch to 1-0 Carriers.
If you actually think about it, why in the hell would you not also make cheap units with a better economy? By teching up to Tier 3, which is overrated, btw, you piss away your economical advantage and have a smaller and less mobile army. This allows your opponent to be in more places and to have a larger supply than you. In essence, you're not losing to Tier 1 that is overpowered, you're beating yourself by picking the wrong way to handle the situation you're in.
Yes, get mad at yourself; you fucked up, but don't hurt yourself (damaging your hands will make you worse at the game - it turns out hands are pretty important). Don't bother getting mad at your opponent; rather, be impressed by your opponent's ability to beat your terrible strategy and try to understand why it was terrible. Don't get mad at David Kim; the game's pretty balanced and fully upgraded Tier 1 might as well be Tier 3 - for the most part, it's better.
EDIT: I won't suggest that the OP by a heavy bag. Rather, he needs to learn more self-discipline. Punching shit is almost the worst thing you can do after losing a game. Feeling like you need to punch or hurt things when you're angry is a sign that you're not as rational as you think. You might take good grades, but that doesn't make you smart or in control of yourself.
I really hesitated to reply to this because I don't want to get dragged into a huge debate over a difference of opinions. However, without getting into too much here, there are a couple things I feel are worth mentioning:
The scenario you brought up regarding tier one and tier three isn't like what I was referring to. I'm not talking about some silly tech switch to mass carrier getting wiped out by marines. I'm talking about a nicely mixed army of units (including those designed to take out tier one) getting wiped out by something like MMM. The way you framed it makes it sound like a trivial misunderstanding in game mechanics on my part. It isn't. I play master league, I get the game. There are times when the game seems absurd, although it's probably not worth getting into as it derails the thread.
The other thing is that I don't hit things and I don't get angry at my opponent, nor do I wish them ill will - even if they talk trash. It's not them that I'm angry at.
It's not as simple as "be more disciplined." I am disciplined - I just get angry. That's why it's a unique issue. It could be the same for the OP, too. Which is why he's asking for help and wanting to know why. It's isn't fair, or accurate, to simply suggest that someone isn't as "rational" as they think they are, simply because one aspect of their lives causes them to get angry from time to time. People get upset by different things.
I can relate to the OP. I don't know what the answer is.
In my daily life I'm calm, well-educated, and have a decent head on my shoulders. I should know better than to let a game affect me... but for some reason SC2 does. I am a competitive person. I have compteted in MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, played university level football and other sports, and there has never been a hit, a tackle, a lost game, trash talk, or even a punch in the face that has ever, ever made me as angry as SC2 can. Ever.
My take on it, from my experience, is that the anger comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
You simply cannot stop the opponent from doing as they will to you. It feels shitty. When you think you're doing well and the game starts sliding away, you just can't stop them from imposing their will on you. That's a shitty feeling if you're a control freak or type-A personality. Someone is preventing you from obtaining a goal - that's aggravating.
Add to that the fact that sometimes it feels unfair - hell, sometimes it is unfair (this game is not perfectly balanced), and sometimes the enemy is a dick. The SC2 community, outside of TL, is generally full of assholes. Even at higher leagues I still get messages like "gg scrub" and "gtfo, loser, you suck." Which only compounds the feelings of anger.
I don't know the solution aside from stop playing or do everything you can to get your frame of mind such that you think "A loss is a lesson" or "just because I lose at SC2 it doesn't mean I suck at life."
At the end of the day, it's just a fucking video game. I know it's easier said than done (I feel your rage, honestly) but it's just a game.
P.S. buy a heavy bag. Seriously.
EDIT: grammar.
I like your explanation, I think there's something to it. I wouldn't want to tell anyone how to deal with it since these things are very personal/individual and what works for me might not work for you, but I have a suggestion.
I think telling yourself it's just a video game, i.e. trivializing it, is only part of the solution, and not a satisfying solution if you want to compete, if you want the feeling that you're in a battle and give it all you got, which is when winning is so damn satisfying.
What I'd suggest ist that you try and shift your focus towards playing well rather than winning. This is where the other guy cannot force his will upon you. You go into the match thinking 'ok, that guy will do whatever he can to beat me, as will I to beat him. That is our job as opponents. I'll try to do my job well. If I lose, at some point I haven't done my job.' Take the opponent as a given. Take it as a given that he will be annoying and will be pestering you and throw shit at you. That's his job. That's the situation you are going into voluntarily to see how you hold up. Let him do what he wants and focus on holding up. Specifically, that means to focus on not getting supply blocked, on scouting, expanding, and so on. Focusing on absolutely wanting to win is dead wrong. (That's what Idra recommended once - see where it got him. Amazing potential but never performing consistently because of bad attitude. I'm serious, and not spiteful. It's tragic.)
For an analogy, imagine you meet a girl you want. If you talk to her constantly thinking how you want to get her into bed, you will most likely suck at conversing with her, and she will see through it. In these situations, you perform when you don't have an agenda, when you're just doing your thing, having fun talking to her, not scheming and planning, just giving it the best you've got, being the best self you can be in the present situation and nowhere else.
On ladder, you can often tell when your opponent absolutely wants to win, is probably on a losing streak and pissed off. This is often what makes them cheese, and they rage even more when it doesn't work. This state of mind and focus should be avoided. The winning player on the other hand often is not the one with the most cunning plan or the most determination to win, but simply the one who didn't get fucking supply blocked as much and had a 15 worker lead. You do what you do. The opponent only has power over you if you give it to him.
Yeah, this is good stuff. Focusing on one's own play and individual improvement probably really helps to compartmentalize a lot of the emotions riding on the game. The other person simply becomes a machine to test your self-improvement rather than an opponent to overcome so that you may win the game. The game becomes getting better when faced with different obstacles, rather than just going out and winning.
I have dealt with impatience and anger at a few times in my life. I wen't through a couple of short periods where i would get angry after losing starcraft, especially when somebody is BM. by the same token, i have also laughed in the face of BM that would have made me tilt/angry before.
Think about what you've learned about the body's physiology. That the feelings you are having is a surge of hormones namely adrenaline and cortisol. You read online that exercising and doing things to vent this energy helps. Using the adrenaline for something constructive like exercising is a really good anger management technique. Day9 recommended squeezing a towel to help with ladder anxiety/frustration. Namely to rinse out those hormones.
When considering anger management particularly on the psychological side of things. It is healthy to recognize the feelings that are making you feel upset and reflect on them in a rational way. Understanding that its either OK or silly to be feeling angry knowing its just chemicals and waiting for it to pass.
However, i did I read a study a while back showing that Venting anger and frustration may not actually be helpful. As it promotes holding onto those feelings and what not. So running or squeezing things may help the hormonal side of things, but reemphasizing what is making you angry may just make you hold onto it more. I found that with ladder anxiety/frustration/anger that this is the case. I truly believe that when your angry on ladder your angry for anger's sake. You know what your frustrated about, that it's not a big deal, but with the surge of anger it just reenforces your negative thoughts; gives them a purpose. It's just sort of a habitual response that you have to break.
The best cure for gaming rage, I've found, is to try cheese yourself a bit. If it's timing attacks that grind your gears, try some timing attacks. Whatever they do that infuriates you, try it yourself.
If it's balance that is so enraging, either switch race or simply resign yourself to the fact that your race is the underdog or your preferred playing style with that race doesn't suit the game.
I have strong views about balance, and I still can't resist making the occasional snarky comment when somebody who's obviously carried by his race thinks he's pro when he beats me with the exact same tactics that I face almost every game against his race. But I don't rage as much as I used to.
OP: Given your talents, situation, and outlook, you probably ought to consider involving people in your anger management research who are closer to you than anyone on this forum is, but it's cool to see you're having luck so far, and I've found these responses really interesting.
Otherwise, a few more random thoughts: Small behavioral changes sometimes help. If you intentionally use a bad/weird/cheesy strategy (with a high probability of losing), you can get practice with weird strategic puzzles and calmly typing GG with "low-stakes" situations. Or you might have some luck saying something out loud when a game seems out of control ("I don't know how to respond to this tactic, maybe I'll find out afterwards").
Rage comes cause people can't accept the defeat. You are american (or european) and you have to win, to be the best. It comes from culture, from education. It's a conditionned behavior you can't think in an otherwise way. But you can take back the control of your mind, of yourself, you can practice self control. Try meditation, yoga, self improvment.
And don't forget : If you win it's because your oppenent was pretty bad and if you loose it's because you're simply bad but you have learn something for the next match. Ladder is a way to get some points. These points allows you to play with good players. It's a chance to improve yourself, to improve your gamesense and your mechanics. Dont consider the ladder like a test. Nobody will judge you right now for your game. Try to play some online tournaments and you will see that ladder is just a training field, it's nothing.
Just let your rage goes on. Rage is not a problem. Rage is driving human being since he exists.
Just don t let it affect ur personnal life, Rage is the key.
I will rage for ever and i like it.
EDIT : My personnal experience :
I am a very calm person, the type of guy who thinks, then acts, but in SC2 i m the strictly opposite. What i do when i rage : I just insult my opponent in a really really horrible way till i get quiet again. Just insult them, their family, their wife, mom and sons, and then, u will get back to ur normal stand.
The problem is the bans from blizzard, but don't worry, never more than a week.
EPT
Well, I did all of those things, the more I played [and the more I played with friends, which I dont mind losing to] the less I got angry when losing a game. Now I'm just pissy for a few minutes. 
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D*****
