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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:03 Nerski wrote:
I think a better argument for this guy would of been that the root players are nearly just as popular as EG / TL to an extent.
Who is root's most popular player. Catz? Is he even half as popular as HuK Hero Incontrol jaedong taeja tlo ...even demuslim? You could argue equal to demuslim. You can say players are equally likeable or something but they are just not equal in popularity. At all.
These words you are using "nearly" and "to an extent" try to obfuscate something that is just wrong.
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Canada13389 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:52 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:03 Nerski wrote:
I think a better argument for this guy would of been that the root players are nearly just as popular as EG / TL to an extent. Who is root's most popular player. Catz? Is he even half as popular as HuK Hero Incontrol jaedong taeja tlo ...even demuslim? You could argue equal to demuslim. You can say players are equally likeable or something but they are just not equal in popularity. At all.
While this is true, I think the original intention is being lost.
ROOT is relevant enough that they shouldn't be equated to a beggar on the street asking for money. This is where I feel the written piece starts to lose its way. They are popular enough that I think they deserve more than that level of treatment from a piece of "journalism" on their ROOT house. If anything its more of an editorial that won't get a "letters to the editor" kind of response ever on Richard Lewis' website.
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Don't get me wrong. This is a very stupid article but just not for any of the reasons listed in this thread. Richard Lewis imposes a subjective and, frankly, non-sequitur moral frame onto a subject that has little to do with morality. He is also has a relatively narrow understanding of consumer economics which he misguidedly tries to bring to bear to argue that because private businesses don't see value in a product that it has no value.
If it makes people feel good to throw money at ROOT with no real guidelines or expectations other than some vague stated goals then let them do it. The idea that people are being scammed or tricked somehow or that this is an insidious guilt trip which people simply cannot resist simply reveals that he has a very low opinion of the community.
In my eyes this situation has more in common with people trying to stop Community from being cancelled than it has with some sort of sinister money grab or scam.
Until the fans get wise to what this is e-sports can’t be professional. Professionals earn their living, it’s not given to them. Anything else is just garbage.
His conclusion, quoted here, is why the article should just be ignored as a troll (which it is). This amounts to saying "in order to be a professional you must earn money. However, I will define what constitutes 'earned' versus 'given' using arbitrary criteria that suit my argument."
This is some fairly transparent trolling but he got 15+ pages going strong here so I guess it worked.
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Canada13389 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:58 Cyrak wrote:
In my eyes this situation has more in common with people trying to stop Community from being cancelled than it has with some sort of sinister money grab or scam.
I agree with that.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:58 Cyrak wrote:
Don't get me wrong. This is a very stupid article but just not for any of the reasons listed in this thread. Richard Lewis imposes a subjective and, frankly, non-sequitur moral frame onto a subject that has little to do with morality. He is also has a relatively narrow understanding of consumer economics which he misguidedly tries to bring to bear to argue that because private businesses don't see value in a product that it has no value.
Nailed it.
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I would love it if Root, instead of having a fundraiser, did some kind of regular content creation or show like TL Attacks to improve the profile of their players, boost their stream numbers and get more sponsors. Sometimes they have impromptu practice sessions that are actually really entertaining or informative.
And it kills me that a player like Vibe isn't more popular. He's one of the best zergs in North America.
I guess what worries me about the idea of a team house is that it's doesn't necessarily address the issues that have always seemed to be Root's problem, which is a lack of funding through sponsorship. And it should be a sign that even teams as big as TL or EG occasionally share resources/players to support a competitive team, or move their team to a state like Arizona where rent and housing is dirt cheap.
It feels like they're trying to sing before they can hum.
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If people want to spend money on something let them fucking do it. Other people's money is not your business unless it was stolen or gained illegally through other means. (Or spent on something illegal)
If I ask people on the street for a quarter for 8 hours I could probably make more than minimum wage in California. Are those people missing their hard earned quarter? Probably not or they would've asked for it back or not given it.
Same goes with the e-sports community, I subbed to JP for 5 bucks a month because I support what he does, 5 bucks is a pack of cigerettes, I can go without it. Will he spend the 5 dollars on his shows? No clue, not my business, it could be on crack for all I know, but it's my money and I wanted to subscribe to his channel as a way to support someone I like.
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Root is a NA team! I think we should all support NA teams and players to make the scene grow. If they fail afterwards because they are unsustainable, that's a separate issue. Almost all businesses start off with funding/loans...
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On May 04 2013 06:52 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:03 Nerski wrote:
I think a better argument for this guy would of been that the root players are nearly just as popular as EG / TL to an extent. Who is root's most popular player. Catz? Is he even half as popular as HuK Hero Incontrol jaedong taeja tlo ...even demuslim? You could argue equal to demuslim. You can say players are equally likeable or something but they are just not equal in popularity. At all. These words you are using "nearly" and "to an extent" try to obfuscate something that is just wrong.
How is he equal to demuslim? How is demuslim less popular than Huk or Hero? Demuslim gets consistent 8k viewer counts, pretty sure he's way more popular.
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Rather a noob question i am sure, but is there actualy a transparency of how much money is donated and where it is going ? Can people actualy see it ?
I always find this the most important point of any Donating.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 04 2013 13:38 Exempt. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:52 Kennigit wrote:On May 04 2013 06:03 Nerski wrote:
I think a better argument for this guy would of been that the root players are nearly just as popular as EG / TL to an extent. Who is root's most popular player. Catz? Is he even half as popular as HuK Hero Incontrol jaedong taeja tlo ...even demuslim? You could argue equal to demuslim. You can say players are equally likeable or something but they are just not equal in popularity. At all. These words you are using "nearly" and "to an extent" try to obfuscate something that is just wrong. How is he equal to demuslim? How is demuslim less popular than Huk or Hero? Demuslim gets consistent 8k viewer counts, pretty sure he's way more popular.
If you believe demuslim is more popular than huk, you should absolutely represent him for his next contract negotiation with EG.
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From the bits I've read, its a bad article and he's a bad writer, so I won't put myself through reading it. On the subject of the viability of the root house as a whole, I think its gonna be a disaster, but I can't blame catz. You can't dedicate your life to being root in its current form. He may as well just go work at a bank and make money that way if he's gonna be satisfied with where he is. As such, it makes sense for catz to try to essentially go all-in by trying to make a successful team house and have a successful media presence in what is going to be the center of SC2 esports in America, SF.
The only reason I like Catz is the fact that he's Peruvian, but aside from that, he and root as a whole really bother me. Their entire existence is based on silliness and I dunno, Kiwikaki was the only truly good player or person. "lolproxyhatch" just doesn't do it for me. I hope the house is successful and I think catz is assuming that if he can raise enough money for it to get going, sponsors will hop on board and give it long term survival. But that's a big risk. And yet its a risk he needs to take if he ever wants root to be anything more than a glorified Bnet clan.
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ROOT reminds me of all the teams we used to make back in WC3. We all put so much effort into the game, but in the end we weren't able to get sponsorships because companies did not want to invest in the WC3 scene, even if we could give a good amount of exposure.
CatZ is kind of stuck in that phase, but if they have a team house they have a nice chance to move forward at least 1 step. If they don't do something drastic, they run the risk of never improving.
They don't have huge sponsorship to allow them to live in a team house, so he pulls this stunt hoping something can come from it.
Nobody is forced to give him money, no harm is coming from it.
Also, this writer is bad... Reading through that crap was painful. I don't think anyone should take any of his information seriously.
Wish ROOT the best of luck, but honestly I won't follow too closely =(
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 04 2013 15:28 zachMEISTER wrote:
Kennigit up in arms.
I'm just gob smacked. Yesterday some guys on reddit were explaining how kespa was basically a players union. The astounding level of ignorance required to make a statement like this is just baffling. Now im arguing with someone that demuslim, because he gets 8k stream viewers from hardcore sc2 fans is more popular than idra or huk or hero worldwide. And its not even based on any data....its just "im pretty sure because his stream is good that he's the most popular".
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In my opinion it is not a great move to basically ask their fans for the money. I mean, everyone can do with his money like he pleases, so if someone wants to donate to them no problem. I also think fund raising is a great way for charity or non-profit organizations (red cross, etc.) but this is more like a company asking for free money.
If the gaming house is such a great idea that helps them put out more content, get better results, better exposure, etc, why don't they ask their sponsors or some kind of investor? So either they never asked, because they thought it was easier fro them to get basically free money from their fans or they asked and nobody wanted to give them the money, because they could not explain what the benefits for the sponsor/investor would be.
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Then kickstarter.com, and fundraisiing somehow devalues and lowers the value of the event/team? This guy is a little too much of a shitstarter for my liking...How about some ppl write controversial articles, not to start any reasonable topics, but because they want ppl to look at it, no matter who they step over. That in my eyes is journalism in its most base and degrading form and he should take a look at himself before critisizing ROOT.
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The article's a bit harsh and I feel fans can spend their money any way they want. However, I feel investing in a semi-pro team like Root is far from the best way to promote eSports/NA. It'll just turn into a frat house and they'll continue to be irrelevant on the international stage.
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On May 04 2013 15:40 Kennigit wrote:I'm just gob smacked. Yesterday some guys on reddit were explaining how kespa was basically a players union. The astounding level of ignorance required to make a statement like this is just baffling. Now im arguing with someone that demuslim, because he gets 8k stream viewers from hardcore sc2 fans is more popular than idra or huk or hero worldwide. And its not even based on any data....its just "im pretty sure because his stream is good that he's the most popular".
Yeah such an insult toward huk.. ~~
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On May 04 2013 15:40 Kennigit wrote:I'm just gob smacked. Yesterday some guys on reddit were explaining how kespa was basically a players union. The astounding level of ignorance required to make a statement like this is just baffling. Now im arguing with someone that demuslim, because he gets 8k stream viewers from hardcore sc2 fans is more popular than idra or huk or hero worldwide. And its not even based on any data....its just "im pretty sure because his stream is good that he's the most popular".
eh, what data would you use to measure popularity? I would say stream numbers is a good place to start. Demu streamed nearly 8 hours a day last month while he had more numbers than anyone else on twitch (for sc2). I would say at the moment he's very popular.
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EPT
