On April 25 2013 03:03 Yello wrote: I still don't understand why Blizz was all about growing SC2 in China in 2012, even doing the final WCS there and then in 2013 they don't give a shit at all about the Chinese SC2 scene.
That's such a huge change in direction ... I really don't know what's going on there
To be fair, MLG is responsible for WCS NA, not Blizzard. This is entirely on Sundance.
On April 25 2013 03:04 yawnoC wrote: [quote]And MLG reserved spots, JUST LIKE ESL DID, for specific players who they have dealt with in the past... why is that hard to understand?
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
On April 25 2013 03:51 semmeL wrote:
On April 25 2013 03:26 yawnoC wrote:
On April 25 2013 03:10 EnPassant wrote:
On April 25 2013 03:04 yawnoC wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:57 Undead1993 wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:55 yawnoC wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:44 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:25 Mangooze wrote: Oh come on, MLG make a public apology, get over it already. What else can you ask from them...
A public apology full of fluff and of no actual substance, that provided no new information regarding what went wrong or how they'll attempt to mitigate the damage already done. I honestly don't understand how any rational individual can look at that supposed apology and see it as anything more than a bunch of cookie-cutter nonspecific drivel that companies release all the time when they dun goof.
What went wrong? The manager just told you what went wrong. They didn't register at the same time MacSeed did because he didn't fully understand the rules and thought he was registering his whole team for an individual event. Which is the opposite of what people were originally saying. Both sides did things wrong. The apology didn't need to address every detail. They said they fucked up, they said they will improve for next time. If they don't that is when we really have to be up in arms with MLG and Blizzard.
LOL he still said that they registered 1 day before the koreans and the koreans were in the bracket they were not. srsly "both sides did thing wrong" god damn it.
And MLG reserved spots, JUST LIKE ESL DID, for specific players who they have dealt with in the past... why is that hard to understand?
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
Dont know how u can say MLG did enough for the timeframe they had. ESL showed with even less time that alot more was doable. Also looking up last Years WCS top 3-5 finishers for each Region and having a list for these players takes less than 1hour (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series). If the whole WCS-NA Qualifier was too much for MLG why didnt they ask for some help from ESL/TL/NASL/Blizzard to be better prepared for Season1 Qualifier. They said were able to do WCS-NA, they knew the timeframe, but it seems they a)have not the resources to handle something big like this or b)they did not put enough manpower behind it to reduce the cost and make maximum profit underestimating this community backlash.
ESL has a history of running events like this only. MLG doesn't. Its not suprise that ESL did a better job and guess what? Even they had to fix things. Ultimately Blizzard shouldn't have pushed all this as fast as they did but they did. People fucked up but as long as they fix all those issues for the next event I have no real issue. When things are done for the first time problems are natural. I feel like everyone wants everything to be close to perfect out of the gate when that is just not possible.
How does this excuse MLG for not asking for informations/help on OnlineTournaments from organisations like ESL that have more experience with these things ?
It doesn't. I never said it did. ESL also had to worry about all the projects they are doing/have coming up. So they probably couldn't have given much help anyway.
On April 25 2013 03:03 Yello wrote: I still don't understand why Blizz was all about growing SC2 in China in 2012, even doing the final WCS there and then in 2013 they don't give a shit at all about the Chinese SC2 scene.
That's such a huge change in direction ... I really don't know what's going on there
To be fair, MLG is responsible for WCS NA, not Blizzard. This is entirely on Sundance.
Regarding the qualifier? Yes.
But keep in mind Blizzard hasn't invited any Chinese players into *any* WCS Premier league.
On April 25 2013 03:04 yawnoC wrote: [quote]And MLG reserved spots, JUST LIKE ESL DID, for specific players who they have dealt with in the past... why is that hard to understand?
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
If u know u do only 1 Qualifier, u have to make sure that it's doable/tripple fool proofed. So if u do only 1 Qualifier make sure beforehand that mistakes at this scale and how often they accured can not happen. Again MLGs fault for just doing 1 Qualifier and doing it so bad. They also could have run more Qualifiers and improve upon them like ESL did. But well more Qualifiers more work, better just do 1 and safe money.
Maybe they did? We have no idea what precautions they took. Again, the only mistake they made in regards to registering was not having enough spots (1024 instead of 512 for example). I hate to say it because I have always been a fan of Chinese players and teams from WC3 and CS 1.6 but the Chinese not registering early enough to get a spot is not really MLGs fault and I don't see how it can be. Don't get me wrong, MLG could have done a lot better, but I think people are manly focusing on the wrong things. No one is making a fuss over puck not getting in. Not saying puck is on comm or Jims level but if you are going to complain about people not getting in it should be about all the good players, not just the Chinese.
It's truly frustrated with everything that happen to the Chinese players in WCS NA qualifier, but this was a lesson to learn what they have to do in the future. May be they need an agent in US or Coordinator in US for their players to participate in NA tournament. Your players already show the world how good they can be.
I believed MLG already try their best to run the show, but nothing is perfect. Don't give up to have the players to participate in NA tournament.
On April 25 2013 03:03 Yello wrote: I still don't understand why Blizz was all about growing SC2 in China in 2012, even doing the final WCS there and then in 2013 they don't give a shit at all about the Chinese SC2 scene.
That's such a huge change in direction ... I really don't know what's going on there
To be fair, MLG is responsible for WCS NA, not Blizzard. This is entirely on Sundance.
Regarding the qualifier? Yes.
But keep in mind Blizzard hasn't invited any Chinese players into *any* WCS Premier league.
I imagine that's because HoTS isn't released in China. They were, however, told to qualify from WCS NA.
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
On April 25 2013 03:51 semmeL wrote:
On April 25 2013 03:26 yawnoC wrote:
On April 25 2013 03:10 EnPassant wrote:
On April 25 2013 03:04 yawnoC wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:57 Undead1993 wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:55 yawnoC wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:44 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
A public apology full of fluff and of no actual substance, that provided no new information regarding what went wrong or how they'll attempt to mitigate the damage already done. I honestly don't understand how any rational individual can look at that supposed apology and see it as anything more than a bunch of cookie-cutter nonspecific drivel that companies release all the time when they dun goof.
What went wrong? The manager just told you what went wrong. They didn't register at the same time MacSeed did because he didn't fully understand the rules and thought he was registering his whole team for an individual event. Which is the opposite of what people were originally saying. Both sides did things wrong. The apology didn't need to address every detail. They said they fucked up, they said they will improve for next time. If they don't that is when we really have to be up in arms with MLG and Blizzard.
LOL he still said that they registered 1 day before the koreans and the koreans were in the bracket they were not. srsly "both sides did thing wrong" god damn it.
And MLG reserved spots, JUST LIKE ESL DID, for specific players who they have dealt with in the past... why is that hard to understand?
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
Dont know how u can say MLG did enough for the timeframe they had. ESL showed with even less time that alot more was doable. Also looking up last Years WCS top 3-5 finishers for each Region and having a list for these players takes less than 1hour (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series). If the whole WCS-NA Qualifier was too much for MLG why didnt they ask for some help from ESL/TL/NASL/Blizzard to be better prepared for Season1 Qualifier. They said were able to do WCS-NA, they knew the timeframe, but it seems they a)have not the resources to handle something big like this or b)they did not put enough manpower behind it to reduce the cost and make maximum profit underestimating this community backlash.
ESL has a history of running events like this only. MLG doesn't. Its not suprise that ESL did a better job and guess what? Even they had to fix things. Ultimately Blizzard shouldn't have pushed all this as fast as they did but they did. People fucked up but as long as they fix all those issues for the next event I have no real issue. When things are done for the first time problems are natural. I feel like everyone wants everything to be close to perfect out of the gate when that is just not possible.
How does this excuse MLG for not asking for informations/help on OnlineTournaments from organisations like ESL that have more experience with these things ?
It doesn't. I never said it did. ESL also had to worry about all the projects they are doing/have coming up. So they probably couldn't have given much help anyway.
U have a point there. But TL also did TSL, NASL is there, man would it have been so hard to jump over ur shadow and ask for help at the first season qualifier, cause it was on a timeframe that seemed not doable for MLG. I think in the negotiations with Blizzard about WCS they said they would be able to do it..., so if they could not guarantee it, they should not have said they could. And now they don't even aknowledge all the faults they had in this qualifier. If MLG takes action and do something for the upcoming ChallengerQualifier to compensate the Regions/Players they fucked over i'm willing to get over this and go forward. But if only the top #9-40 finishers of the first Qualifier are able to compete in the ChallengerQualifier and nothing changes until them i am not willing to forgive MLG.
Edit: About ur post above, yeah im angry about all the GMs/Masters that didnt get into it, but low league players that did. GSL system was known to prevent something like that.
On April 25 2013 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: WCS 2013 is going for the official eSports record of "most vague non-commital apologies in a single season".
You just described every public apology by every publicly owned anything, ever. They are by design vague and non-committal. Wait to see how they address the issues, rather than how specifically they apologize.
no, u r describing a ridiculous over-generalized white-wash
here is a specific apology that hits the issues head on.
very different from the vague comments coming from MLG. This apology is in person facing the camera with an active Q&A sesssion. MLG gives us a text only apology.
after hearing Gary Betman's apology i had some confidence the NHL would put together a solid 2013 season. the content of MLG's apology and Blizzard stone cold silence do not inspire the same level of confidence in WCS 2013.
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
If u know u do only 1 Qualifier, u have to make sure that it's doable/tripple fool proofed. So if u do only 1 Qualifier make sure beforehand that mistakes at this scale and how often they accured can not happen. Again MLGs fault for just doing 1 Qualifier and doing it so bad. They also could have run more Qualifiers and improve upon them like ESL did. But well more Qualifiers more work, better just do 1 and safe money.
Maybe they did? We have no idea what precautions they took. Again, the only mistake they made in regards to registering was not having enough spots (1024 instead of 512 for example). I hate to say it because I have always been a fan of Chinese players and teams from WC3 and CS 1.6 but the Chinese not registering early enough to get a spot is not really MLGs fault and I don't see how it can be. Don't get me wrong, MLG could have done a lot better, but I think people are manly focusing on the wrong things. No one is making a fuss over puck not getting in. Not saying puck is on comm or Jims level but if you are going to complain about people not getting in it should be about all the good players, not just the Chinese.
Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
The Chinese scene in SC2 is rather isolated from the Europe-North America-South Korea trifecta. However the top players there are considered to be very good, and we've seen glimpses of that in the past, however not nearly as much as we ideally would have wanted. What does this mean? This means the Chinese are mysterious wildcards who could turn up and dazzle everyone with mad skillz, the fact that they very rarely compete in European/North American tournaments (whether online or offline) only adds to the hype and mystique. And then, China has had a massive gaming audience for WarCraft 3, and still has one for DotA. Blizzard saw this market that could prove to be very important for SC2, as evidenced by their hosting WCS Asia and WCS Grand Finals last year in China, in an attempt to bring the Chinese scene closer to the international community, and also market their game there.
So MLG's mishaps take that unfortunately shoddy relationship between the Chinese and the rest of the community, and shit on it. And it's not only about some Chinese players not making it in (despite having registered in time and told they were good to go by MLG admins), it's also about disqualifying Comm only when he was one round away from qualifying, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, and also about attempting to censor and ban the people who brought this issue to light in their channels.
So yes, while I agree that Puck/LeiYa's case is also unfortunate, there's a lot more to it than you suggest.
On April 25 2013 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: WCS 2013 is going for the official eSports record of "most vague non-commital apologies in a single season".
You just described every public apology by every publicly owned anything, ever. They are by design vague and non-committal. Wait to see how they address the issues, rather than how specifically they apologize.
no, u r describing a ridiculous over-generalized white-wash
here is a specific apology that hits the issues head on.
very different from the vague comments coming from MLG. This apology is in person facing the camera with an active Q&A sesssion. MLG gives us a text only apology.
after hearing Gary Betman's apology i had some confidence the NHL would put together a solid 2013 season. the content of MLG's apology and Blizzard stone cold silence do not inspire the same level of confidence in WCS 2013.
That is fine if you feel the need to critic the length, breath and level of specific detail in the apology. I take Sundance and MLG at their word that they are sorry this took place and they are going to try and do better. I am more interested in how the problems gets solved than making MLG admit just how wrong they are.
On April 25 2013 03:26 yawnoC wrote: [quote]I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
If u know u do only 1 Qualifier, u have to make sure that it's doable/tripple fool proofed. So if u do only 1 Qualifier make sure beforehand that mistakes at this scale and how often they accured can not happen. Again MLGs fault for just doing 1 Qualifier and doing it so bad. They also could have run more Qualifiers and improve upon them like ESL did. But well more Qualifiers more work, better just do 1 and safe money.
Maybe they did? We have no idea what precautions they took. Again, the only mistake they made in regards to registering was not having enough spots (1024 instead of 512 for example). I hate to say it because I have always been a fan of Chinese players and teams from WC3 and CS 1.6 but the Chinese not registering early enough to get a spot is not really MLGs fault and I don't see how it can be. Don't get me wrong, MLG could have done a lot better, but I think people are manly focusing on the wrong things. No one is making a fuss over puck not getting in. Not saying puck is on comm or Jims level but if you are going to complain about people not getting in it should be about all the good players, not just the Chinese.
Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
The Chinese scene in SC2 is rather isolated from the Europe-North America-South Korea trifecta. However the top players there are considered to be very good, and we've seen glimpses of that in the past, however not nearly as much as we ideally would have wanted. What does this mean? This means the Chinese are mysterious wildcards who could turn up and dazzle everyone with mad skillz, the fact that they very rarely compete in European/North American tournaments (whether online or offline) only adds to the hype and mystique. And then, China has had a massive gaming audience for WarCraft 3, and still has one for DotA. Blizzard saw this market that could prove to be very important for SC2, as evidenced by their hosting WCS Asia and WCS Grand Finals last year in China, in an attempt to bring the Chinese scene closer to the international community, and also market their game there.
So MLG's mishaps take that unfortunately shoddy relationship between the Chinese and the rest of the community, and shit on it. And it's not only about some Chinese players not making it in (despite having registered in time and told they were good to go by MLG admins), it's also about disqualifying Comm only when he was one round away from qualifying, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, and also about attempting to censor and ban the people who brought this issue to light in their channels.
So yes, while I agree that Puck/LeiYa's case is also unfortunate, there's a lot more to it than you suggest.
I wish they went against there rules and let Comm play but they couldn't. If they don't take there own rules seriously why should anyone? I have heard and read that they didn't even ban the PhysicsLee for hacking but for account sharing so how can you DQ one player for it and not another?
By in there channels I assume you mean twitch chat. I have no issue with banning people for spamming. Spamming is also, again, against the rules. Twitch Chat is also NOT the place to do get MLG attention. People have also said MLG weren't the ones doing most of it and it was a filters etc.
I just wonder why Blizzard hasn't made a league from Asia w/o korean. So basically a WCS Amerika, Europe, Korea and Asia. While this may not make sense from a geographical standpoints, it sure makes sense from a players distribution.
On April 25 2013 04:54 testthewest wrote: I just wonder why Blizzard hasn't made a league from Asia w/o korean. So basically a WCS Amerika, Europe, Korea and Asia. While this may not make sense from a geographical standpoints, it sure makes sense from a players distribution.
I think they talked about doing that next year as this year was a bit rushed, which is why I don't fully blame MLG.
On April 25 2013 03:28 JustPassingBy wrote: [quote]
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
If u know u do only 1 Qualifier, u have to make sure that it's doable/tripple fool proofed. So if u do only 1 Qualifier make sure beforehand that mistakes at this scale and how often they accured can not happen. Again MLGs fault for just doing 1 Qualifier and doing it so bad. They also could have run more Qualifiers and improve upon them like ESL did. But well more Qualifiers more work, better just do 1 and safe money.
Maybe they did? We have no idea what precautions they took. Again, the only mistake they made in regards to registering was not having enough spots (1024 instead of 512 for example). I hate to say it because I have always been a fan of Chinese players and teams from WC3 and CS 1.6 but the Chinese not registering early enough to get a spot is not really MLGs fault and I don't see how it can be. Don't get me wrong, MLG could have done a lot better, but I think people are manly focusing on the wrong things. No one is making a fuss over puck not getting in. Not saying puck is on comm or Jims level but if you are going to complain about people not getting in it should be about all the good players, not just the Chinese.
Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
The Chinese scene in SC2 is rather isolated from the Europe-North America-South Korea trifecta. However the top players there are considered to be very good, and we've seen glimpses of that in the past, however not nearly as much as we ideally would have wanted. What does this mean? This means the Chinese are mysterious wildcards who could turn up and dazzle everyone with mad skillz, the fact that they very rarely compete in European/North American tournaments (whether online or offline) only adds to the hype and mystique. And then, China has had a massive gaming audience for WarCraft 3, and still has one for DotA. Blizzard saw this market that could prove to be very important for SC2, as evidenced by their hosting WCS Asia and WCS Grand Finals last year in China, in an attempt to bring the Chinese scene closer to the international community, and also market their game there.
So MLG's mishaps take that unfortunately shoddy relationship between the Chinese and the rest of the community, and shit on it. And it's not only about some Chinese players not making it in (despite having registered in time and told they were good to go by MLG admins), it's also about disqualifying Comm only when he was one round away from qualifying, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, and also about attempting to censor and ban the people who brought this issue to light in their channels.
So yes, while I agree that Puck/LeiYa's case is also unfortunate, there's a lot more to it than you suggest.
I wish they went against there rules and let Comm play but they couldn't. If they don't take there own rules seriously why should anyone? I have heard and read that they didn't even ban the PhysicsLee for hacking but for account sharing so how can you DQ one player for it and not another?
By in there channels I assume you mean twitch chat. I have no issue with banning people for spamming. Spamming is also, again, against the rules. Twitch Chat is also NOT the place to do get MLG attention. People have also said MLG weren't the ones doing most of it and it was a filters etc.
They don't even take their own rules seriously. They apply them on an arbitrary (or seemingly arbitrary, unless you want to justify it as racism) case-by-case basis.
Here's the thing. Twitch chat is awful, it really is. But at the same time, there's something wrong when you censor people en masse for trying to inquire about an issue of this kind of importance, when some of them are doing it in a civil, non-trollish, non-spammy way. And I'm fairly sure that people have tried to reach the MLG admins in various other ways as well, only to be met with utter indifference.
On April 25 2013 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: WCS 2013 is going for the official eSports record of "most vague non-commital apologies in a single season".
You just described every public apology by every publicly owned anything, ever. They are by design vague and non-committal. Wait to see how they address the issues, rather than how specifically they apologize.
no, u r describing a ridiculous over-generalized white-wash
here is a specific apology that hits the issues head on.
very different from the vague comments coming from MLG. This apology is in person facing the camera with an active Q&A sesssion. MLG gives us a text only apology.
after hearing Gary Betman's apology i had some confidence the NHL would put together a solid 2013 season. the content of MLG's apology and Blizzard stone cold silence do not inspire the same level of confidence in WCS 2013.
That is fine if you feel the need to critic the length, breath and level of specific detail in the apology. I take Sundance and MLG at their word that they are sorry this took place and they are going to try and do better. I am more interested in how the problems gets solved than making MLG admit just how wrong they are.
so u r now backing off ur initial claim that every apology ever made in public is always vague, great.
in any competitive league the confidence the general public has in the integrity of the competition is crucial. this is where... even the "Appearance of impropriety" is bad.
so the apology itself is a problem.
until MLG makes systematic changes i have zero confidence in the competitive integrity of WCS NA.
as a point of comparison, i have reasonable confidence in the competitive integrity of the NHL in 2013 now if Gary Betman arbitrarily decided to disqualify the NY Rangers for the Stanley Cup playoffs ...well..that confidence level would diminish
The current season of WCS 2013 NA... is just a bad joke.
Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
On April 25 2013 03:29 yawnoC wrote: [quote]I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
If u know u do only 1 Qualifier, u have to make sure that it's doable/tripple fool proofed. So if u do only 1 Qualifier make sure beforehand that mistakes at this scale and how often they accured can not happen. Again MLGs fault for just doing 1 Qualifier and doing it so bad. They also could have run more Qualifiers and improve upon them like ESL did. But well more Qualifiers more work, better just do 1 and safe money.
Maybe they did? We have no idea what precautions they took. Again, the only mistake they made in regards to registering was not having enough spots (1024 instead of 512 for example). I hate to say it because I have always been a fan of Chinese players and teams from WC3 and CS 1.6 but the Chinese not registering early enough to get a spot is not really MLGs fault and I don't see how it can be. Don't get me wrong, MLG could have done a lot better, but I think people are manly focusing on the wrong things. No one is making a fuss over puck not getting in. Not saying puck is on comm or Jims level but if you are going to complain about people not getting in it should be about all the good players, not just the Chinese.
Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
The Chinese scene in SC2 is rather isolated from the Europe-North America-South Korea trifecta. However the top players there are considered to be very good, and we've seen glimpses of that in the past, however not nearly as much as we ideally would have wanted. What does this mean? This means the Chinese are mysterious wildcards who could turn up and dazzle everyone with mad skillz, the fact that they very rarely compete in European/North American tournaments (whether online or offline) only adds to the hype and mystique. And then, China has had a massive gaming audience for WarCraft 3, and still has one for DotA. Blizzard saw this market that could prove to be very important for SC2, as evidenced by their hosting WCS Asia and WCS Grand Finals last year in China, in an attempt to bring the Chinese scene closer to the international community, and also market their game there.
So MLG's mishaps take that unfortunately shoddy relationship between the Chinese and the rest of the community, and shit on it. And it's not only about some Chinese players not making it in (despite having registered in time and told they were good to go by MLG admins), it's also about disqualifying Comm only when he was one round away from qualifying, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, and also about attempting to censor and ban the people who brought this issue to light in their channels.
So yes, while I agree that Puck/LeiYa's case is also unfortunate, there's a lot more to it than you suggest.
I wish they went against there rules and let Comm play but they couldn't. If they don't take there own rules seriously why should anyone? I have heard and read that they didn't even ban the PhysicsLee for hacking but for account sharing so how can you DQ one player for it and not another?
By in there channels I assume you mean twitch chat. I have no issue with banning people for spamming. Spamming is also, again, against the rules. Twitch Chat is also NOT the place to do get MLG attention. People have also said MLG weren't the ones doing most of it and it was a filters etc.
They don't even take their own rules seriously. They apply them on an arbitrary (or seemingly arbitrary, unless you want to justify it as racism) case-by-case basis.
Here's the thing. Twitch chat is awful, it really is. But at the same time, there's something wrong when you censor people en masse for trying to inquire about an issue of this kind of importance, when some of them are doing it in a civil, non-trollish, non-spammy way. And I'm fairly sure that people have tried to reach the MLG admins in various other ways as well, only to be met with utter indifference.
Examples of them being wishy washy with their own rules? Also, care to provide proof of people going through official channels and not getting a response from MLG about everything? I also have no problem with censoring people who are spamming something that is not an official channel for what they want to know. If so many people weren't bring trollish dicks in twitch chat maybe you could have gotten a response but when so much garbage is just flowing out its hard to separate people being civil and people being trolls. Sad but true.
EPT
