On April 25 2013 02:57 Undead1993 wrote: [quote] LOL he still said that they registered 1 day before the koreans and the koreans were in the bracket they were not. srsly "both sides did thing wrong" god damn it.
And MLG reserved spots, JUST LIKE ESL DID, for specific players who they have dealt with in the past... why is that hard to understand?
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
1. MLG also had the ability to do something about it. Many, many people, including myself, let MLG know how terrible of an idea this format was. Yet, just days before the event instead of making changes they reiterated that that was the way it is. IE. they saw the warnings, but instead of listening to the common sense of how terrible of an idea it was, they ignored them and went ahead. People would have thanked them greatly if they had changed to add more players, or even added a priority...which if you know is how GSL does their qualifier (again, common sense that shouldn't of even needed warning, but they did get one and still went ahead). PS. the technology has been there a long long time to see what league someone is in, it can be an automated process. They had many options of change and plenty of opportunity, they chose not to...this is a first time deal for them and they should have welcomed suggestions and criticisms rather than ignore them.
2. I know they don't understand what people are upset about because they didn't mention it in their 'apology' (how can you expect them to try to solve a problem they don't acknowledge exists). If they thought it was as big a deal as we do, obviously, they would have mentioned it.
3. You're right, they have fucked up a lot and made a lot of apologies, which is why it's safe to say we expected more/better from this one...they have plenty of practice.
4. No one is expecting anything to happen retrospectively, i have no idea where you got that from. I said they titled the apology "how we will improve" implying the future..which is why I was expecting something they are going to do in the future to prevent these situations. Furthermore, many of us have complained about the Challenger format. Did they bother to mention how they are going to take these lessons on to improve that? NO. because they don't even acknowledge them as problems!
Poor communication and a bad format will once again cause waves of hate toward MLG once the challenger qualifiers roll around.
On April 25 2013 03:31 JustPassingBy wrote: [quote]
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
If u know u do only 1 Qualifier, u have to make sure that it's doable/tripple fool proofed. So if u do only 1 Qualifier make sure beforehand that mistakes at this scale and how often they accured can not happen. Again MLGs fault for just doing 1 Qualifier and doing it so bad. They also could have run more Qualifiers and improve upon them like ESL did. But well more Qualifiers more work, better just do 1 and safe money.
Maybe they did? We have no idea what precautions they took. Again, the only mistake they made in regards to registering was not having enough spots (1024 instead of 512 for example). I hate to say it because I have always been a fan of Chinese players and teams from WC3 and CS 1.6 but the Chinese not registering early enough to get a spot is not really MLGs fault and I don't see how it can be. Don't get me wrong, MLG could have done a lot better, but I think people are manly focusing on the wrong things. No one is making a fuss over puck not getting in. Not saying puck is on comm or Jims level but if you are going to complain about people not getting in it should be about all the good players, not just the Chinese.
Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
The Chinese scene in SC2 is rather isolated from the Europe-North America-South Korea trifecta. However the top players there are considered to be very good, and we've seen glimpses of that in the past, however not nearly as much as we ideally would have wanted. What does this mean? This means the Chinese are mysterious wildcards who could turn up and dazzle everyone with mad skillz, the fact that they very rarely compete in European/North American tournaments (whether online or offline) only adds to the hype and mystique. And then, China has had a massive gaming audience for WarCraft 3, and still has one for DotA. Blizzard saw this market that could prove to be very important for SC2, as evidenced by their hosting WCS Asia and WCS Grand Finals last year in China, in an attempt to bring the Chinese scene closer to the international community, and also market their game there.
So MLG's mishaps take that unfortunately shoddy relationship between the Chinese and the rest of the community, and shit on it. And it's not only about some Chinese players not making it in (despite having registered in time and told they were good to go by MLG admins), it's also about disqualifying Comm only when he was one round away from qualifying, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, and also about attempting to censor and ban the people who brought this issue to light in their channels.
So yes, while I agree that Puck/LeiYa's case is also unfortunate, there's a lot more to it than you suggest.
I wish they went against there rules and let Comm play but they couldn't. If they don't take there own rules seriously why should anyone? I have heard and read that they didn't even ban the PhysicsLee for hacking but for account sharing so how can you DQ one player for it and not another?
By in there channels I assume you mean twitch chat. I have no issue with banning people for spamming. Spamming is also, again, against the rules. Twitch Chat is also NOT the place to do get MLG attention. People have also said MLG weren't the ones doing most of it and it was a filters etc.
They don't even take their own rules seriously. They apply them on an arbitrary (or seemingly arbitrary, unless you want to justify it as racism) case-by-case basis.
Here's the thing. Twitch chat is awful, it really is. But at the same time, there's something wrong when you censor people en masse for trying to inquire about an issue of this kind of importance, when some of them are doing it in a civil, non-trollish, non-spammy way. And I'm fairly sure that people have tried to reach the MLG admins in various other ways as well, only to be met with utter indifference.
Examples of them being wishy washy with their own rules? Also, proof people were going through official channels and not getting a response from MLG about everything? I also have no problem with censoring people who are spamming something that is not an official channel for what they want to know. If so many people weren't bring trollish dicks in twitch chat maybe you could have gotten a response but when so much garbage is just flowing out its hard to separate people being civil and people being trolls. Sad but true.
Here, I'll "proof" Example of them being "wishy-washy" with their own rules, Korean player Crank in EU compared to Chinese player Comm in NA. Perfect example for you.
As for people being censored on twitch channels by twitch admins, I agree with you. It's the same on TL, admins allow what they want, it is their right, since they are responsible for everything on their site and or chat channels, ect.
Because of this I will always cheer for Comm, Jim, and the other players that were hurt by this. Shame.
On April 25 2013 05:13 CounterOrder wrote: Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
A lot of pro players had their spots in the tournament guaranteed. For some reason some others were overlooked and the Chinese were among those players..
On April 25 2013 05:13 CounterOrder wrote: Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
A lot of pro players had their spots in the tournament guaranteed. For some reason some others were overlooked and the Chinese were among those players..
On April 25 2013 04:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote: Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
You have a lot to learn about rabble rousing. That is no way to continue stocking furor in a lynch mob. You use this to prove not only is MLG racist but that they hate the LBGT community as well.
Or wait, maybe it is the right plan because if/when something for the Chinese gets announced you can then continue complaining by then bringing up Puck/LeiYa. It's a riskier strat but it is valid.
I am going to do my best to ignore this stupidity forever more and daydream about heads exploding if Edison had come out with a statement that didn't point fingers and play victimology but instead went something like "It was my mistake that I did not get my players registered ASAP and I accept the responsibility that my negligence has cost them this opportunity. I will perform my duties better next season which is about 6 weeks away."
Then again who knows how many Chinese pros would have been able to survive those 6 weeks...
On April 25 2013 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: WCS 2013 is going for the official eSports record of "most vague non-commital apologies in a single season".
You just described every public apology by every publicly owned anything, ever. They are by design vague and non-committal. Wait to see how they address the issues, rather than how specifically they apologize.
no, u r describing a ridiculous over-generalized white-wash
here is a specific apology that hits the issues head on.
very different from the vague comments coming from MLG. This apology is in person facing the camera with an active Q&A sesssion. MLG gives us a text only apology.
after hearing Gary Betman's apology i had some confidence the NHL would put together a solid 2013 season. the content of MLG's apology and Blizzard stone cold silence do not inspire the same level of confidence in WCS 2013.
That is fine if you feel the need to critic the length, breath and level of specific detail in the apology. I take Sundance and MLG at their word that they are sorry this took place and they are going to try and do better. I am more interested in how the problems gets solved than making MLG admit just how wrong they are.
so u r now backing off ur initial claim that every apology ever made in public is always vague, great.
in any competitive league the confidence the general public has in the integrity of the competition is crucial. this is where... even the "Appearance of impropriety" is bad.
so the apology itself is a problem.
until MLG makes systematic changes i have zero confidence in the competitive integrity of WCS NA.
as a point of comparison, i have reasonable confidence in the competitive integrity of the NHL in 2013 now if Gary Betman arbitrarily decided to disqualify the NY Rangers for the Stanley Cup playoffs ...well..that confidence level would diminish
Jimmy I am not arguing with you, I am expressing my point of view on the subject. In my personal experience, most publicly owned entities with investors issue vague public statements when they apologize for things. I personally don't hold it against them as there is likely reasons for them to do so. I am not really interested in them listing off each individual detail wrong and how they feel it could have been corrected. I am interested in how they are going to handle the next qualifiers and address the problems in the future.
If you think that MLG has ruined it appearance of integrity, that's fine too. We don't have to agree on the subject.
On April 25 2013 05:13 CounterOrder wrote: Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
A lot of pro players had their spots in the tournament guaranteed. For some reason some others were overlooked and the Chinese were among those players..
Including the national champion..
Indeed. And he should have been among the 8 non American premiere league invites in the first place.
On April 25 2013 05:13 CounterOrder wrote: Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
I will guarantee you that KeSPA had absolutely nothing to do with it at all seeing as none of the participating players were from KeSPA teams.
Really sad about how badly MLG fucked this up. I do fully believe that the chinese players work just as hard as the koreans do(Dota/LoL, pretty sure what SC2 players are left work just as hard), despite not having much of a practice infrastructure apart from teamhouses. I don't really see a way for them to remedy the situation though without either rerunning qualifiers(unfair to the people who did qualify, regardless of how poorly it was run), or expanding the format to a RoXX and inviting/qualifying more people.
it is really stupid that they knew comm was playing on a friend's account as he even told the players he faced every game and admins present he was comm and get to the final round of losers bracket and get DQ'd. let the guy get to the final step to the premier league against a bunch of koreans and gets dq'd while hackers run free
On April 25 2013 03:04 yawnoC wrote: [quote]And MLG reserved spots, JUST LIKE ESL DID, for specific players who they have dealt with in the past... why is that hard to understand?
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
1. MLG also had the ability to do something about it. Many, many people, including myself, let MLG know how terrible of an idea this format was. Yet, just days before the event instead of making changes they reiterated that that was the way it is. IE. they saw the warnings, but instead of listening to the common sense of how terrible of an idea it was, they ignored them and went ahead. People would have thanked them greatly if they had changed to add more players, or even added a priority...which if you know is how GSL does their qualifier (again, common sense that shouldn't of even needed warning, but they did get one and still went ahead). PS. the technology has been there a long long time to see what league someone is in, it can be an automated process. They had many options of change and plenty of opportunity, they chose not to...this is a first time deal for them and they should have welcomed suggestions and criticisms rather than ignore them.
2. I know they don't understand what people are upset about because they didn't mention it in their 'apology' (how can you expect them to try to solve a problem they don't acknowledge exists). If they thought it was as big a deal as we do, obviously, they would have mentioned it.
3. You're right, they have fucked up a lot and made a lot of apologies, which is why it's safe to say we expected more/better from this one...they have plenty of practice.
4. No one is expecting anything to happen retrospectively, i have no idea where you got that from. I said they titled the apology "how we will improve" implying the future..which is why I was expecting something they are going to do in the future to prevent these situations. Furthermore, many of us have complained about the Challenger format. Did they bother to mention how they are going to take these lessons on to improve that? NO. because they don't even acknowledge them as problems!
Poor communication and a bad format will once again cause waves of hate toward MLG once the challenger qualifiers roll around.
1. I only saw people bitching about the barrier of entry IE paying to play in it. I also agree they should have increased the size of the playing field. Also changing the format/implementing those type of changes, like you say, days before the event would have probably cause more headaches and might have made things go even worse overall.
2. You are assuming they don't know. Just like I assume that even though they didn't explicitly mention every little detail in their apology doesn't mean they are doing nothing about the problems the community has brought up.
3. People have never complained about there apologies before so why change the format I guess?
4. People are saying "Let comm play his last match" after he has been DQ'd. People were saying MLG should go back and let those who played against the hacker player again while the event was live. There have been others but those were just to stupid to even give a second though to. Again just because they don't mention every single complaint the community has does not mean they haven't acknowledged those issues. I do agree that including how we will improve in the title was a stupid move but I am honestly not caught up on that because I know they will improve. They always have up until this point so why should I doubt them now?
Poor communication and a bad format will once again cause waves of hate toward MLG once the challenger qualifiers roll around.
If the format remains bad and they don't fix the issues. I agree.
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
1. MLG also had the ability to do something about it. Many, many people, including myself, let MLG know how terrible of an idea this format was. Yet, just days before the event instead of making changes they reiterated that that was the way it is. IE. they saw the warnings, but instead of listening to the common sense of how terrible of an idea it was, they ignored them and went ahead. People would have thanked them greatly if they had changed to add more players, or even added a priority...which if you know is how GSL does their qualifier (again, common sense that shouldn't of even needed warning, but they did get one and still went ahead). PS. the technology has been there a long long time to see what league someone is in, it can be an automated process. They had many options of change and plenty of opportunity, they chose not to...this is a first time deal for them and they should have welcomed suggestions and criticisms rather than ignore them.
2. I know they don't understand what people are upset about because they didn't mention it in their 'apology' (how can you expect them to try to solve a problem they don't acknowledge exists). If they thought it was as big a deal as we do, obviously, they would have mentioned it.
3. You're right, they have fucked up a lot and made a lot of apologies, which is why it's safe to say we expected more/better from this one...they have plenty of practice.
4. No one is expecting anything to happen retrospectively, i have no idea where you got that from. I said they titled the apology "how we will improve" implying the future..which is why I was expecting something they are going to do in the future to prevent these situations. Furthermore, many of us have complained about the Challenger format. Did they bother to mention how they are going to take these lessons on to improve that? NO. because they don't even acknowledge them as problems!
Poor communication and a bad format will once again cause waves of hate toward MLG once the challenger qualifiers roll around.
1. I only saw people bitching about the barrier of entry IE paying to play in it. I also agree they should have increased the size of the playing field. Also changing the format/implementing those type of changes, like you say, days before the event would have probably cause more headaches and might have made things go even worse overall.
2. You are assuming they don't know. Just like I assume that even though they didn't explicitly mention every little detail in their apology doesn't mean they are doing nothing about the problems the community has brought up.
3. People have never complained about there apologies before so why change the format I guess?
4. People are saying "Let comm play his last match" after he has been DQ'd. People were saying MLG should go back and let those who played against the hacker player again while the event was live. There have been others but those were just to stupid to even give a second though to. Again just because they don't mention every single complaint the community has does not mean they haven't acknowledged those issues. I do agree that including how we will improve in the title was a stupid move but I am honestly not caught up on that because I know they will improve. They always have up until this point so why should I doubt them now?
I was bitching about the entry fee because why should AM be the only region to have to pay to play..especially when they could of simply added a priority, which would of fixed/prevented the majority of this (just like GSL already does) and served the same purpose.
I don't assume they don't know..they know (we've made enough noise)...what I assume is that they don't see it as a problem, as evidenced by them not mentioning anything towards the Chinese or any of the players who couldn't get in or any of the players who were knocked out by ppl who were subsequently dq'd.
Again, they say "how we will improve" but don't finish the sentence. If you have faith in them, then that is what sets us apart..they have given me more than enough reason over the past 3 years to doubt them. I'm not going to discuss what they have done in the past because it has already been brought up in many of these threads...the info is around.
We'll see with the challenger who's lacked faith or misplaced faith (o btw, the challenger quali's are invite only and the invitees are based on the premier qualifier)
I feel sorry for the Chinese players affected by this. It's definately frustrating that low level players and players that didn't even show up took spots from professionals and masters/grandmasters. There should definately be prejudice... we want the best players, not players that are essentially wasting their time and our time. Why would anyone below masters get in? If that happened, that's just stupid. I don't think its MLG's fault that hackers got into an online qualifier, but MLG could have handled essentialy all of the problems mentioned in the OP's post much better, including the hackers.
I'm sad for the Chinese scene, MLG really messed up big time. The Chinese scene seems to be awesome, somehow all of this makes me want to follow them and root for them!
On April 25 2013 05:13 CounterOrder wrote: Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
I cried when I found out MacSed was the only player who made it to the original 512 man bracket. Anywhere from 7-10 players on the Korean server that are GMs come from China. They have training curriculum that is comparable to the Koreans themselves in doing as much training as 14 hours each day.
The only reason why I think MLG even let or thought about letting MacSed in to the original 512 man bracket was because his name was once on the front page of Teamliquid.net, then regarded as the world's best non-Korean protoss and 3rd best foreigner worldwide.
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
1. MLG also had the ability to do something about it. Many, many people, including myself, let MLG know how terrible of an idea this format was. Yet, just days before the event instead of making changes they reiterated that that was the way it is. IE. they saw the warnings, but instead of listening to the common sense of how terrible of an idea it was, they ignored them and went ahead. People would have thanked them greatly if they had changed to add more players, or even added a priority...which if you know is how GSL does their qualifier (again, common sense that shouldn't of even needed warning, but they did get one and still went ahead). PS. the technology has been there a long long time to see what league someone is in, it can be an automated process. They had many options of change and plenty of opportunity, they chose not to...this is a first time deal for them and they should have welcomed suggestions and criticisms rather than ignore them.
2. I know they don't understand what people are upset about because they didn't mention it in their 'apology' (how can you expect them to try to solve a problem they don't acknowledge exists). If they thought it was as big a deal as we do, obviously, they would have mentioned it.
3. You're right, they have fucked up a lot and made a lot of apologies, which is why it's safe to say we expected more/better from this one...they have plenty of practice.
4. No one is expecting anything to happen retrospectively, i have no idea where you got that from. I said they titled the apology "how we will improve" implying the future..which is why I was expecting something they are going to do in the future to prevent these situations. Furthermore, many of us have complained about the Challenger format. Did they bother to mention how they are going to take these lessons on to improve that? NO. because they don't even acknowledge them as problems!
Poor communication and a bad format will once again cause waves of hate toward MLG once the challenger qualifiers roll around.
1. I only saw people bitching about the barrier of entry IE paying to play in it. I also agree they should have increased the size of the playing field. Also changing the format/implementing those type of changes, like you say, days before the event would have probably cause more headaches and might have made things go even worse overall.
2. You are assuming they don't know. Just like I assume that even though they didn't explicitly mention every little detail in their apology doesn't mean they are doing nothing about the problems the community has brought up.
3. People have never complained about there apologies before so why change the format I guess?
4. People are saying "Let comm play his last match" after he has been DQ'd. People were saying MLG should go back and let those who played against the hacker player again while the event was live. There have been others but those were just to stupid to even give a second though to. Again just because they don't mention every single complaint the community has does not mean they haven't acknowledged those issues. I do agree that including how we will improve in the title was a stupid move but I am honestly not caught up on that because I know they will improve. They always have up until this point so why should I doubt them now?
I was bitching about the entry fee because why should AM be the only region to have to pay to play..especially when they could of simply added a priority, which would of fixed/prevented the majority of this (just like GSL already does) and served the same purpose.
I don't assume they don't know..they know (we've made enough noise)...what I assume is that they don't see it as a problem, as evidenced by them not mentioning anything towards the Chinese or any of the players who couldn't get in or any of the players who were knocked out by ppl who were subsequently dq'd.
Again, they say "how we will improve" but don't finish the sentence. If you have faith in them, then that is what sets us apart..they have given me more than enough reason over the past 3 years to doubt them. I'm not going to discuss what they have done in the past because it has already been brought up in many of these threads...the info is around.
We'll see with the challenger who's lacked faith or misplaced faith (o btw, the challenger quali's are invite only and the invitees are based on the premier qualifier)
Where does it say challenger will be invite only? I have never seen it mentioned officially by MLG only unofficially (ie desrow asking about it on twitter)
On April 25 2013 05:13 CounterOrder wrote: Interesting point about Koreans getting in even though they registered later. Wonder where/if Kespa fits into this. We know they got deals with MLG and Blizz.
The whole world wants to see the Chinese play. This is the tourny to not exclude people. They excelled in doing just that however. I could almost shed a tear. My mind is just fucking blown.
I will guarantee you that KeSPA had absolutely nothing to do with it at all seeing as none of the participating players were from KeSPA teams.
Oh, well then, that makes sense why no one has mentioned them. lol
Difference is, that there were a lot more people allowed to participate in EU qualifiers. Also, this should be about fair competition and not about connections to "important" people at MLG. MLG just handled the whole thing unprofessional and intransparent. I really don´t think they should get away with this.
I only agree that not enough people were allowed to participate. MLG did what they felt was the fairest for them and the time frame they had. They obviously made mistakes, and they admitted to them (i.e should have had more spots in the qualifier). If they just had more spots Chinese players would have gotten in. That is that.
So Blizzard told them that they were not allowed to hold the qualifier on Friday? Or the days before that, for that matter.
I assume they didn't want the EU and NA qualifiers to run over each other/be to close. Who knows though. MLG fucked up but people are, IMO, overreacting right now.
Well, I'm sure people will calm down quickly once they get a detailed apology, like that one from the ESL for example.
You thought the ESL apology was detailed? all they said was "First two days could have been better" and they they increased the size of the brackets... or did I read a different "apology" (wasn't really an apology more of an explanation of what they did)
At least they actually did something...MLG's title was "how we will improve" and they didn't say a word about it. The MLG apology was a joke, no matter what you compare it too. What's even more frustrating is that they don't even know what people are most upset about...how can you expect them to change (with out making a large uproar) when they don't even know or acknowledge what was a problem.
ESL had the ABILITY to do something since they had more than one qualifier. How do you know they don't know what people are upset about? Everything people are upset about is because they are assuming way to much. People honestly feel like MLG will fuck up this bad again. Remember the shit storm that was MLG Dallas? MLG gave a similar apology and they next event everything went well. They have a good track record of correcting the mistakes they make (outside extended series). Everyone expecting retroactive fixes are crazy.
1. MLG also had the ability to do something about it. Many, many people, including myself, let MLG know how terrible of an idea this format was. Yet, just days before the event instead of making changes they reiterated that that was the way it is. IE. they saw the warnings, but instead of listening to the common sense of how terrible of an idea it was, they ignored them and went ahead. People would have thanked them greatly if they had changed to add more players, or even added a priority...which if you know is how GSL does their qualifier (again, common sense that shouldn't of even needed warning, but they did get one and still went ahead). PS. the technology has been there a long long time to see what league someone is in, it can be an automated process. They had many options of change and plenty of opportunity, they chose not to...this is a first time deal for them and they should have welcomed suggestions and criticisms rather than ignore them.
2. I know they don't understand what people are upset about because they didn't mention it in their 'apology' (how can you expect them to try to solve a problem they don't acknowledge exists). If they thought it was as big a deal as we do, obviously, they would have mentioned it.
3. You're right, they have fucked up a lot and made a lot of apologies, which is why it's safe to say we expected more/better from this one...they have plenty of practice.
4. No one is expecting anything to happen retrospectively, i have no idea where you got that from. I said they titled the apology "how we will improve" implying the future..which is why I was expecting something they are going to do in the future to prevent these situations. Furthermore, many of us have complained about the Challenger format. Did they bother to mention how they are going to take these lessons on to improve that? NO. because they don't even acknowledge them as problems!
Poor communication and a bad format will once again cause waves of hate toward MLG once the challenger qualifiers roll around.
1. I only saw people bitching about the barrier of entry IE paying to play in it. I also agree they should have increased the size of the playing field. Also changing the format/implementing those type of changes, like you say, days before the event would have probably cause more headaches and might have made things go even worse overall.
2. You are assuming they don't know. Just like I assume that even though they didn't explicitly mention every little detail in their apology doesn't mean they are doing nothing about the problems the community has brought up.
3. People have never complained about there apologies before so why change the format I guess?
4. People are saying "Let comm play his last match" after he has been DQ'd. People were saying MLG should go back and let those who played against the hacker player again while the event was live. There have been others but those were just to stupid to even give a second though to. Again just because they don't mention every single complaint the community has does not mean they haven't acknowledged those issues. I do agree that including how we will improve in the title was a stupid move but I am honestly not caught up on that because I know they will improve. They always have up until this point so why should I doubt them now?
I was bitching about the entry fee because why should AM be the only region to have to pay to play..especially when they could of simply added a priority, which would of fixed/prevented the majority of this (just like GSL already does) and served the same purpose.
I don't assume they don't know..they know (we've made enough noise)...what I assume is that they don't see it as a problem, as evidenced by them not mentioning anything towards the Chinese or any of the players who couldn't get in or any of the players who were knocked out by ppl who were subsequently dq'd.
Again, they say "how we will improve" but don't finish the sentence. If you have faith in them, then that is what sets us apart..they have given me more than enough reason over the past 3 years to doubt them. I'm not going to discuss what they have done in the past because it has already been brought up in many of these threads...the info is around.
We'll see with the challenger who's lacked faith or misplaced faith (o btw, the challenger quali's are invite only and the invitees are based on the premier qualifier)
Where does it say challenger will be invite only? I have never seen it mentioned officially by MLG only unofficially (ie desrow asking about it on twitter)
On April 20 2013 01:53 comabreaded wrote: Does 'WCS America Qualifier 1" indicate that there is more than 1 qualifier? I thought there were 2 qualifiers of 256 players (http://i.imgur.com/rJ9Hpwe.png)? Is there now only 1 qualifier of 512 players, or 2 qualifiers of 512 players?
There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league.
9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
The fact you didn't even know goes to show the continued poor communication I was talking about.
On April 25 2013 04:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote: Multiple people have, in fact, made a fuss over Puck/LeiYa not getting in. But there are reasons why it's less important, from the point of view of most of the community.
You have a lot to learn about rabble rousing. That is no way to continue stocking furor in a lynch mob. You use this to prove not only is MLG racist but that they hate the LBGT community as well.
Or wait, maybe it is the right plan because if/when something for the Chinese gets announced you can then continue complaining by then bringing up Puck/LeiYa. It's a riskier strat but it is valid.
I am going to do my best to ignore this stupidity forever more and daydream about heads exploding if Edison had come out with a statement that didn't point fingers and play victimology but instead went something like "It was my mistake that I did not get my players registered ASAP and I accept the responsibility that my negligence has cost them this opportunity. I will perform my duties better next season which is about 6 weeks away."
Then again who knows how many Chinese pros would have been able to survive those 6 weeks...
MLG fucked up, and when someone fucks up as severely and with as much implications as MLG did, they need to be held accountable. This isn't a "lynch mob", this is the community expressing its displeasure with how MLG handled WCS NA.
Besides, the Chinese players had been wrongly informed that they were good to go by an MLG admin.
MLG racist but that they hate the LBGT community as well
What? I don't even know how this is relevant to anything.
EPT
(o btw, the challenger quali's are invite only and the invitees are based on the premier qualifier)
