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On April 22 2013 16:06 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 16:01 yrt123 wrote:I don't get why you're trying so hard to defend MLG. You got a personal stake in it or something. On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation. Oh they are across the ocean so fuck them right WCS should rename US EU KR Championship Series am I right. I can't find the post but some AU players couldn't get into the qualifiers too and ONLY TWO top Chinese players were in it if I am not wrong(one if you take away Comm which I will not argue about this issue can be taken either way) I don't know how you can defend an organisation with many years of experience holding esports tournament over a wide range of games to not fucking see the problems it will have on a first come first serve 512 player limit bracket for such an important qualifier. The qualifier for the biggest tournament series for the game. Also no god damned tournament organiser in any fucking sport hides the fucking bracket. There may be delays updating the bracket but hiding it? Come on.. I don't blame them for making some mistakes in the bracket but hiding it is just unprofessional ![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044026usjmh8va8kccnaav.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044034bwnzvvrb2ajlrinv.jpg) They are all checked in and good to go but in the end all of these guys didn't play? DAFUQ? Oh no biggie I guess there was some mistake in handling these guys. They can try again next time. Some people don't realize that this is not a topic you can have an opinion about. It was a fuck up - it's really just that simple. I really cannot understand how anyone would back up MLG here. In my opinion MLG not only ran the qualifier badly and made it a mess due to this, but it should be invalid. They betrayed players , others got knocked out by players that shouldn't be in anyways.... the qualifier is made invalid by all of this.
For me that is what pisses me off. The way they handled it screwed over alot of players and this guy is defending them fanatically. I personally dont care about no streams or whatever, just the guys that got screwed due to bad admin and hidden bracket etc
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On April 22 2013 16:06 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 16:01 yrt123 wrote:I don't get why you're trying so hard to defend MLG. You got a personal stake in it or something. On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation. Oh they are across the ocean so fuck them right WCS should rename US EU KR Championship Series am I right. I can't find the post but some AU players couldn't get into the qualifiers too and ONLY TWO top Chinese players were in it if I am not wrong(one if you take away Comm which I will not argue about this issue can be taken either way) I don't know how you can defend an organisation with many years of experience holding esports tournament over a wide range of games to not fucking see the problems it will have on a first come first serve 512 player limit bracket for such an important qualifier. The qualifier for the biggest tournament series for the game. Also no god damned tournament organiser in any fucking sport hides the fucking bracket. There may be delays updating the bracket but hiding it? Come on.. I don't blame them for making some mistakes in the bracket but hiding it is just unprofessional They are all checked in and good to go but in the end all of these guys didn't play? DAFUQ? Oh no biggie I guess there was some mistake in handling these guys. They can try again next time. Some people don't realize that this is not a topic you can have an opinion about. It was a fuck up - it's really just that simple. I really cannot understand how anyone would back up MLG here. In my opinion MLG not only ran the qualifier badly and made it a mess due to this, but it should be invalid. They betrayed players , others got knocked out by players that shouldn't be in anyways.... the qualifier is made invalid by all of this.
I believe so too. As stated on the pulse and stated by me before in this topic.. mlg is robbing progamers of doing there jobs! They may even go and search for another career because it would take more than 1 season to get in wcs NA again.. is thats esports nowadays...
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So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
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So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
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Nearly everything could have been prevented if they wouldn't have done just 1 qualifier with 512 spots.
ESL also made mistakes (check-in too early,...) preventing many players from playing, but they made up for it by having 4 qualifiers with the first and last one with unlimited spots.
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On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
/signed
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On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
I cannot believe that in 2013 I firmly believe that NASL could pull a better show than MLG. I mean, ask me this 2 years ago.
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Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts)
At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division
and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on).
After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go.
Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
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On April 22 2013 16:30 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 16:28 yrt123 wrote:On April 22 2013 16:25 convention wrote:On April 22 2013 16:20 feanor1 wrote:On April 22 2013 13:53 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 13:46 feanor1 wrote:On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues. I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders. Fee doesnt solve anything. It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money. There were fees for MLG open brackets. You still get plat people joining just for the sake of playing. I don't even make that much money, but I would definitely shell out 5-10 dollars without care if I felt like playing. They need to do it like the GSL, where you have to be at least X points masters to be able to register. Or don't limit spots for such an important qualifier... especially when theres only one that you will be bloody locked into through I think spots shouldn't be limited. But it's not fair to the pros if everyone is allowed a free registration. I don't think any pro should have to go through a 2048 man bracket just so everyone can join. It should be unlimited spots but only better than X points masters players (just like the Code A qualifiers).
For a pro first 3 round in a 2048 man bracket are a time when he checks his connection to server, his key setup and so on. The games should last about 10 minutes each.You either hold up the cheese or kill opponent with a good executed timing attack. If you lose in RO2048 you might start considering if you are good enough to be a pro.
On April 22 2013 17:24 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence. I cannot believe that in 2013 I firmly believe that NASL could pull a better show than MLG. I mean, ask me this 2 years ago.
To be honest NASL rate of improvement amazes me. And yes i too believe NASL would have made a better job (at least for the online part). Bitterdam worked for ESL for over a year (Rotti even longer) so they know inside and out of running online cups. And even if the top brass of ESL and NASL might not work 100% smooth. The unofficial help from the ground up " for old times sake" would guarantee that the event would run smoothly.
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On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote:
So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
Who wants to be qualified in such a manner? We call ourselves ESPORTS but the competition must be held on even ground. Players that think this qualifiers were OK do not understand ethics and sportsmanship.
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Amidst all the terrible management, administration, and planning of MLG, we shouldn't forget the solid casting Axeltoss and Axslav did (and their guest casters). At least they gave us a reason to keep watching.
Hopefully MLG learns something from this disastrous event.
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I wonder if Blizz also talked to NASL before giving the WCS NA to MLG.
Maybe they would have done a better job, maybe not.
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On April 22 2013 17:34 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote:
So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D" Who wants to be qualified in such a manner? We call ourselves ESPORTS but the competition must be held on even ground. Players that think this qualifiers were OK do not understand ethics and sportsmanship.
So basically MLG makes a mistake and the players have to pay for it? MLG isn't able to host this in a good way and they should feel the consequences (mb organize an other tournament with a pricepool provided by MLG as mentioned).
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On April 22 2013 17:42 HooK2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 17:34 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote:
So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D" Who wants to be qualified in such a manner? We call ourselves ESPORTS but the competition must be held on even ground. Players that think this qualifiers were OK do not understand ethics and sportsmanship. So basically MLG makes a mistake and the players have to pay for it? MLG isn't able to host this probably and they should feel the consequences (mb organize an other tournament with a pricepool provided by MLG as mentioned).
Wait a minute. MLG made a mistake and players DO PAY for it as it is. And why would the players care for the fees MLG should pay for hosting this so badly? For them the tournament is over. Some played hackers, some played future DQ players etc. It's a mess.
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On April 22 2013 17:41 Uranyl wrote:
I wonder if Blizz also talked to NASL before giving the WCS NA to MLG.
Maybe they would have done a better job, maybe not.
The way i see it happened:
Blizz: You know we are changing WCS for 2013 and making it the biggest league in the world to compete.
MLG: Do you have anyone to run it in NA?
Blizz: Well we are starting to look for one...
MLG: Look no further. We make the best offline events in NA. And for online part we just launched gamebattles. Its perfect for online play and qualifiers. Thousand of people use it. Its so easy and fool proof...
BLizz: Ok WSC NA is yours.
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On April 22 2013 17:24 Frankon wrote:
Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts)
At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division
and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on).
After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go.
Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
This is your speculation or official? If official, source? Either ways when you are in charge of a big event like this, you can't just casually say 'oh sorry better luck next time' after you fuck up. Not when you are an experienced and stable organisation that jas been entrusted to do the job properly (or bought the rights to do it) it is your responsibility to ensure the best competition possible. Some mistakes can be made sure such as the hacker incident. I don't blame them for not realising hacker (s) are in the qualifier. It is difficult with hundreds of people.
But some of the mistakes are inexcusable. 512 slots on a first come first serve basis anyone can join? Come on they are professionals. They shoukd not be so naieve to believe it will allow the fairest and best to compete. Surely some will be left out. Admins also gave out misinformation. They say Chinese players were in but actually they were not...
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On April 22 2013 17:47 yrt123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 17:24 Frankon wrote:
Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts)
At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division
and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on).
After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go.
Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy? This is your speculation or official? If official, source? Either ways when you are in charge of a big event like this, you can't just casually say 'oh sorry better luck next time' after you fuck up. Not when you are an experienced and stable organisation that jas been entrusted to do the job properly (or bought the rights to do it) it is your responsibility to ensure the best competition possible. Some mistakes can be made sure such as the hacker incident. I don't blame them for not realising hacker (s) are in the qualifier. It is difficult with hundreds of people. But some of the mistakes are inexcusable. 512 slots on a first come first serve basis anyone can join? Come on they are professionals. They shoukd not be so naieve to believe it will allow the fairest and best to compete. Surely some will be left out. Admins also gave out misinformation. They say Chinese players were in but actually they were not...
Pure speculations. Mondays mornings are boring at work....
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I'm not surprised, it sounds just like your average MLG production.
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It's weird that it seems like they just did something without really thinking about it and preparing accordingly. These are mistakes you'd expect from a first time organiser. Not a team who has done a lot of open brackets before.
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EPT
its simple, mlg did wrong, make it right. Maybe a €200.000,-- wcs convicts tournament, for the players that were left out? Be creative
