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Would it better if we had the same 3 regions and only people who live there can participate, but we have team league style matches between the 3 over long period of time to determine how many players from each region gets to go to world finals. Maybe a minimum of 2 from region. This means koreans would get more representatives but there would a league that is better suited for up and coming eu/na players.
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The problem with the foreigner scene is that even if they were motivated enough, they are overall way behind Koreans, and all the practice they can find is very weak compared to what Koreans face on the ladder daily. I don't think they will be able to ever catch up. Welcome BW 2.0 :D
And let's not forget that they're thrown ridiculous amount of money for no result at all. Doesn't really put in them the drive to be competitive. Some random NA/EU semi-pros earn actually more salary than an A teamer on an ESF team, like Prime players.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:16 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:11 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:07 rasers wrote:On April 03 2013 19:42 Douillos wrote:On April 03 2013 19:17 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 19:03 Douillos wrote:On April 03 2013 18:58 Boonbag wrote:
I think, (maybe i'm wrong and misunderstood the whole thing) that people angry and afraid it will lower the single tournament korean level are wrong. It will all remain the same, just on top of the regular individual korean leagues, you'll get a final international tournament.
What's wrong with that ?
Very positive that they add an "official" individual league for both EU / NA.
This is VERY good and the best possible move I think for trying to sanctuarise SC esport in EU/NA. Supporting EU/NA e-sports by limiting the number of koreans being able to get spots through those continents would probably have been better if you asked me. Everybody knows its going to be 16 koreans every year this way. I don't really mind, but i really think the foreigner scene is going to become the same as it was during sc:BW.... Too bad, Blizz definitily had the opportunity to avoid this! No offense, but I think that's a good thing. The top 16 at the WORLD FINALS should be the Best 16 players in the world, I want to see the best players playing at the world finals and the best games. I don't want to see a token American there because the tournament system let him through when he really isn't as good. Maybe if the non koreans want to get into the world finals they might finally work harder to practice and get on the same level. Can you imagine the difficulty of continue to practice as hard when you know that you can barely hope for a top 8 in any competition you go to?) would give the most motivation i could ever get. "oh these guys are still better than me? better fucking practice so i can finally beat them". or "better retire cos this really has no future for me." two ways to look at it Then let them retire. How do you think code B koreans must feel? they practice their ass off and the only way people will even know they exist is if they get through the hellhole known as Code A qualifiers.
code b koreans actually have a decent infrastructure in order to practice their ass off, they have good coaches and teamhouses where they stay for free (i presume) and have all their basic needs provided. that infrastructure isn't there for foreigners.
if we all have the attitude "let the retire" then the scene really will go nowhere. is it too hard to be positive about this announcement and hope that WCS NA and EU allows foreigners to work towards an achievable goal, increasing the number and support of casual viewers? if they can work towards something attainable, they will work harder and improve naturally anyway. it's sort of that psychological effect where if it's too hard, you don't bother trying, but if it's merely difficult, you will work to get there!
happy bday btw 
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I wonder if the prize money for the upcoming GSL will be changed now?
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:16 disciple wrote:
Interesting. I like the idea of unified ranking, many individual sports are based on a solid system, tennis comes to mind. But leaving out team leagues feels questionable, maybe its a personal preference but I believe team leagues in SC make the best storylines and by emphasizing on the individual competitions, the influence of the teams and their personality will get phased out a bit.
Rather than trying to merge them into this system, I'd rather them have a WCS Teamleague or something.
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oh men what do I do with a tournamnet which has no free vods i cant watch so late -.-
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I spent along time thinking about how i could detail my response to this. but I think I'll just try to withhold judgement & see how this plays out. (Though it saddens me that there will be no WCS SEA of course)
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:22 crashpoint wrote:
oh men what do I do with a tournamnet which has no free vods i cant watch so late -.-
same issue as GSL i guess. if you bought a ticket for that, then you can still do the same
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On April 03 2013 20:12 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 15:24 Clefairy wrote:@sk__mcNo matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives. However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do. Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate. Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format. LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives. If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think? And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League? It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players. Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final? @LiquidTaeJaI should go to America or Europe! @EGJYPShould I just go to America~~~~ @LGIMSeed@sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers @EGOzRCHmmm... Do I need to go to America @Liquid_HerOIs it time for me to leave??? @LiquidTaeJaWCS Cake ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BG6gEA_CIAA15B4.jpg) @NsHsJjakji@LiquidTaeJa It tasted bad... Pretty much the reaction I expected. I really don't like this concept so far.
I expect a lot of currently high tier, but not top Koreans will feel this way. However, saying it and making the trip is another matter. They still need to play on the NA server. Also, TB made a very good point on twitter that any Korean players coming over might get "brain-trusted" out by the local players who want to eliminate them. Or to many Korean players will come over and not make it worth it.
Saying its good and booking the flight are two separate things. But this is how normal sports work, people care about the pre-season, which makes the real season that much more interesting.
Also, props to opterown for leading the fight against the QQers in the thread. The WCS isn't a perfect system, but its going to be fun to watch.
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On April 03 2013 20:12 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 15:24 Clefairy wrote:@sk__mcNo matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives. However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do. Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate. Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format. LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives. If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think? And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League? It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players. Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final? @LiquidTaeJaI should go to America or Europe! @EGJYPShould I just go to America~~~~ @LGIMSeed@sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers @EGOzRCHmmm... Do I need to go to America @Liquid_HerOIs it time for me to leave??? @LiquidTaeJaWCS Cake @NsHsJjakji@LiquidTaeJa It tasted bad... Pretty much the reaction I expected. I really don't like this concept so far.
It sums up the situation. Instead of putting a nationality barrier i would have liked a LAN system so that the ones wanting to participate in a region has to move there.
Also "Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final?" even pros say that. Delusional hardcore fans should just accept reality, top8 with no foreigner in a foreign tournament is bad for the viewers.
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On April 03 2013 20:13 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.
Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?
I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit. what? this is about raising the international scene to become (hopefully) as sustainable as the korean scene. having a BW-like system where KR worked but nowhere else did is not healthy for the game, or viewership. korea by itself probably isn't sustainable either since sc2 is much less popular than BW was or LoL is, so making sc2 viable internationally is the way to go about it
You cannot force something like that. You cannot artificially raise it if there are no players (or there are very few) willing to do what it takes to play and compete on a higher level than they currently are.
If you provide foreign-only tournaments with strong financial backing, the only effect that is going to have is to lower the standard of play further, as they need to work even less hard to get exposure and place high in such an environment with no Korean players around. This is exactly what will lead to a repeat of a Brood War era where the foreign players won't be able to take a single game off of real progamers.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:13 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.
Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?
I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit. what? this is about raising the international scene to become (hopefully) as sustainable as the korean scene. having a BW-like system where KR worked but nowhere else did is not healthy for the game, or viewership. korea by itself probably isn't sustainable either since sc2 is much less popular than BW was or LoL is, so making sc2 viable internationally is the way to go about it You cannot force something like that. You cannot artificially raise it if there are no players (or there are very few) willing to do what it takes to play and compete on a higher level than they currently are. If you provide foreign-only tournaments with strong financial backing, the only effect that is going to have is to lower the standard of play further, as they need to work even less hard to get exposure and place high in such an environment with no Korean players around. This is exactly what will lead to a repeat of a Brood War era where the foreign players won't be able to take a single game off of real progamers.
a well-run tournament like WCS EU last year, expanded into a league with the proper players and storylines will lead to progamers working harder, not less. that's my opinion of it, and we can agree to disagree, but i do not think the quality of play will do anything but increase
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:13 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.
Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?
I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit. what? this is about raising the international scene to become (hopefully) as sustainable as the korean scene. having a BW-like system where KR worked but nowhere else did is not healthy for the game, or viewership. korea by itself probably isn't sustainable either since sc2 is much less popular than BW was or LoL is, so making sc2 viable internationally is the way to go about it You cannot force something like that. You cannot artificially raise it if there are no players (or there are very few) willing to do what it takes to play and compete on a higher level than they currently are. If you provide foreign-only tournaments with strong financial backing, the only effect that is going to have is to lower the standard of play further, as they need to work even less hard to get exposure and place high in such an environment with no Korean players around. This is exactly what will lead to a repeat of a Brood War era where the foreign players won't be able to take a single game off of real progamers.
I agree with this. One of the huge reasons foreign players couldn't compete with the korean players is where they never interacted and "foreign" play of Broodwar was so bad in comparison, being the best foreigner meant standing above everyone else, but since you never faced the actual best, their play never got anywhere near that level.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:32 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:29 Talin wrote:On April 03 2013 20:13 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.
Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?
I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit. what? this is about raising the international scene to become (hopefully) as sustainable as the korean scene. having a BW-like system where KR worked but nowhere else did is not healthy for the game, or viewership. korea by itself probably isn't sustainable either since sc2 is much less popular than BW was or LoL is, so making sc2 viable internationally is the way to go about it You cannot force something like that. You cannot artificially raise it if there are no players (or there are very few) willing to do what it takes to play and compete on a higher level than they currently are. If you provide foreign-only tournaments with strong financial backing, the only effect that is going to have is to lower the standard of play further, as they need to work even less hard to get exposure and place high in such an environment with no Korean players around. This is exactly what will lead to a repeat of a Brood War era where the foreign players won't be able to take a single game off of real progamers. I agree with this. One of the huge reasons foreign players couldn't compete with the korean players is where they never interacted and "foreign" play of Broodwar was so bad in comparison, being the best foreigner meant standing above everyone else, but since you never faced the actual best, their play never got anywhere near that level.
it's not like they will be completely devoid of KR-foreigner play. there are still MLGs, IEMs, dreamhacks and the like, just a bit less often.
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Im worried this is going to dilute GSL code S and make it weaker. This used to be the premier tourney in the world with the best players and the most prize money. It was a place where we could watch truly the world's best players compete all in the same tournament. MVP vs MC, Marine King, Nestea, Life ect.
Now with the region lock where are these players going to play? I could see MC deciding to play in NA where he is more likely to make it to the finals. Maybe MVP and Life will go to Europe. What will happen to code S? Surely no foreigners will choose Korea. So what we will have is a diluted Code S/OGN with all Koreans except it will be random code Bers instead of your traditional heavyweights. Just speculation but its entirely possible.
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On April 03 2013 20:20 ZenithM wrote:
The problem with the foreigner scene is that even if they were motivated enough, they are overall way behind Koreans, and all the practice they can find is very weak compared to what Koreans face on the ladder daily. I don't think they will be able to ever catch up. Welcome BW 2.0 :D
And let's not forget that they're thrown ridiculous amount of money for no result at all. Doesn't really put in them the drive to be competitive. Some random NA/EU semi-pros earn actually more salary than an A teamer on an ESF team, like Prime players.
But if lower level Koreans make the switch (which would be wise for some of them to do monetarily speaking) and maybe even some high level Koreans; then they(foreigners) will have a vast amount of strong tournament practice to take advantage of. Furthermore, if those Koreans actually relocate, they will need to practice for the tournament with people in the region, giving foreigners even more high-level practice/feedback. And if they run a Code A/Code S style system with 3 regions, that's over 100 spots. Are there really over 100 Koreans that can defeat all foreigners? Not likely.
As it is now, MLG, DH, GSL, OSL, IEM, Iron Squid, every other major tournament is dominated by Koreans. Even if we assume that Koreans will continue their domination, nothing has changed except for that now they do it for more cash benefit (how is that bad?). But if we take into account the improbability of Koreans en masse emigrating to foreign nations, there will be a much greater support system for the high-level foreigner and even the mid-level foreigner. Sure, at first the Koreans may sweep the field and dominate... but this, at worst, gives the foreigners a fighting chance to catch up. At best it creates an almost immediate effect of elevating the level of play on all sides.
I fail to see how, if we are not already in "BW 2.0" that this change will somehow bring us there...
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:33 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:32 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 20:29 Talin wrote:On April 03 2013 20:13 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.
Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?
I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit. what? this is about raising the international scene to become (hopefully) as sustainable as the korean scene. having a BW-like system where KR worked but nowhere else did is not healthy for the game, or viewership. korea by itself probably isn't sustainable either since sc2 is much less popular than BW was or LoL is, so making sc2 viable internationally is the way to go about it You cannot force something like that. You cannot artificially raise it if there are no players (or there are very few) willing to do what it takes to play and compete on a higher level than they currently are. If you provide foreign-only tournaments with strong financial backing, the only effect that is going to have is to lower the standard of play further, as they need to work even less hard to get exposure and place high in such an environment with no Korean players around. This is exactly what will lead to a repeat of a Brood War era where the foreign players won't be able to take a single game off of real progamers. I agree with this. One of the huge reasons foreign players couldn't compete with the korean players is where they never interacted and "foreign" play of Broodwar was so bad in comparison, being the best foreigner meant standing above everyone else, but since you never faced the actual best, their play never got anywhere near that level. it's not like they will be completely devoid of KR-foreigner play. there are still MLGs, IEMs, dreamhacks and the like, just a bit less often.
I understand that, but it is a big factor to consider. If there isn't really good players to strive to beat, surely the people who get ahead of the other foreigners will just sit pretty knowing they're the best? I can't think of a single foreign player with the mindset of say Flash who even when he gets to the finals and wins he always wants to play better and is always dissapointed that he didn't do as well as he'd hoped. Winning a foreign league against only foreign players only puts this artificial ceiling for that single area where people think they're really good, when they still have no shot against Korean players. That's incredibly bad for the scene.
Also having a WCS Grand Finals be like what happened with MLG Dallas would be even worse. I personally want to see the foreigners who can beat Korean players get into the global finals, not ones that have only beaten foreign players as it'll lead to the MLG Dallas Ro32 being the joke tournament with players who have no shot what so ever against the best being there for namesake.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:34 RedMosquito wrote:
Im worried this is going to dilute GSL code S and make it weaker. This used to be the premier tourney in the world with the best players and the most prize money. It was a place where we could watch truly the world's best players compete all in the same tournament. MVP vs MC, Marine King, Nestea, Life ect.
Now with the region lock where are these players going to play? I could see MC deciding to play in NA where he is more likely to make it to the finals. Maybe MVP and Life will go to Europe. What will happen to code S? Surely no foreigners will choose Korea. So what we will have is a diluted Code S/OGN with all Koreans except it will be random code Bers instead of your traditional heavyweights. Just speculation but its entirely possible.
i highly doubt that any S-class koreans will leave korea. there's too much pride at stake, and they lock themselves out of a whole year of domestic competition
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Great news, bummed about the koreans coming to win EU and NA! If it's a matter of inter-region justice, let them have more slots than us. T'would be really nice to have a real EU tournament.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 03 2013 20:37 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 20:33 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:32 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 20:29 Talin wrote:On April 03 2013 20:13 opterown wrote:On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.
Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?
I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit. what? this is about raising the international scene to become (hopefully) as sustainable as the korean scene. having a BW-like system where KR worked but nowhere else did is not healthy for the game, or viewership. korea by itself probably isn't sustainable either since sc2 is much less popular than BW was or LoL is, so making sc2 viable internationally is the way to go about it You cannot force something like that. You cannot artificially raise it if there are no players (or there are very few) willing to do what it takes to play and compete on a higher level than they currently are. If you provide foreign-only tournaments with strong financial backing, the only effect that is going to have is to lower the standard of play further, as they need to work even less hard to get exposure and place high in such an environment with no Korean players around. This is exactly what will lead to a repeat of a Brood War era where the foreign players won't be able to take a single game off of real progamers. I agree with this. One of the huge reasons foreign players couldn't compete with the korean players is where they never interacted and "foreign" play of Broodwar was so bad in comparison, being the best foreigner meant standing above everyone else, but since you never faced the actual best, their play never got anywhere near that level. it's not like they will be completely devoid of KR-foreigner play. there are still MLGs, IEMs, dreamhacks and the like, just a bit less often. I understand that, but it is a big factor to consider. If there isn't really good players to strive to beat, surely the people who get ahead of the other foreigners will just sit pretty knowing they're the best? I can't think of a single foreign player with the mindset of say Flash who even when he gets to the finals and wins he always wants to play better and is always dissapointed that he didn't do as well as he'd hoped. Winning a foreign league against only foreign players only puts this artificial ceiling for that single area where people think they're really good, when they still have no shot against Korean players. That's incredibly bad for the scene. Also having a WCS Grand Finals be like what happened with MLG Dallas would be even worse. I personally want to see the foreigners who can beat Korean players get into the global finals, not ones that have only beaten foreign players as it'll lead to the MLG Dallas Ro32 being the joke tournament with players who have no shot what so ever against the best being there for namesake.
i guess someone like naniwa can fit your first description? the best foreigners can usually be somewhat competitive against koreans when they play their best (e.g. naniwa, huk, stephano in their primes) so if the best foreigners do win their tournaments then it shouldn't be that bad, i hope. i am also fairly sure that while not many koreans will choose NA/EU WCS, there will be a few B- or A-class koreans that might play there, which will hopefully increase the standard of play
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EPT
