WCS 2013 Announced - April 3rd - Page 92

On April 03 2013 19:42 Douillos wrote:
But as I heard lately on Sotg (Catz iirc), the main problem with foreigners nowadays is motivation. Can you imagine the difficulty of continue to practice as hard when you know that you can barely hope for a top 8 in any competition you go to?)

On April 03 2013 19:29 Taipoka wrote:

I may be wrong. But i think Scarllet already refused this season seed for GSL.
I think it was for not being locked.

On April 03 2013 19:42 Douillos wrote:

Can you imagine the difficulty of continue to practice as hard when you know that you can barely hope for a top 8 in any competition you go to?)

On April 03 2013 20:03 Talin wrote:


Or they could practice harder, become good enough, and hope for a higher finish.

I just don't get how people can so persistently push an argument that defies basic logic and purpose of competing.

On April 03 2013 20:07 rasers wrote:

would give the most motivation i could ever get. "oh these guys are still better than me? better fucking practice so i can finally beat them".

On April 03 2013 19:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:
I guess it's true, people will either always naturally tend toward pessimism.

I mean we have two main complaints with the proposed system, both completely and obviously contradictory:

1) "Koreans will just dominate every scene!"
2) "This is just affirmative action for non-Koreans!"

The best part is that almost every complaint uses both arguments! You have people predicting both scenarios and hating on the idea for doing both at the same time even though they are mutually exclusive! I would laugh if it wasn't so depressing.

It's like almost half of the fan-base hates the idea of the best (Korean) players winning, and the other vast majority hates the idea of any tournament that doesn't feature only the absolute peak of the current scene. And when Blizzard (and almost every other major SC2 organization) creates a system that both ensures the right of the current best to be the best, and at the same time creates an avenue for non-Koreans to possibly become the best in the future; both sides condemn it for the very same reasons they use to condemn the scene as it is.

Either the foreigners magically become good enough to compete with Koreans (as one half of one half of the fan-base seems to expect) or Koreans are unfairly excluded from specific foreigner scenes (as the other half of the one half desires). The first is impossible, and the second does nothing but ensures that foreigners will never compete on the highest level.

Let's take the "worst" case scenarios being tossed around here and explore them for a bit:


1) Code B Koreans, en masse, switch over and dominate the EU and NA scenes.

Well... is that really all that different from how it is now? Last MLG, people were excited because a foreigner took ONE stinking game off of one Korean. Not because he made some epic run to the semi's, not for upsetting a powerhouse... but because he took ONE game in a Bo3. People are excited because Stephano makes it through the Up Downs to requlaify for Code S. Not because he won Code S, or because he was in the finals and came close to winning. Excitement for even qualifying for it. Even Naniwa's run (which I was pumped about) was just making it to the quarter finals twice in a row. Koreans already dominate the scene's in which they compete. In this "horrible" scenario, the Koreans just continue their domination. Only difference is that the foreigner has a better chance under the new system than ever before, as he won't be facing the cream of the crop, but the Code B castoffs. And the potential earnings for him/her, even if he/she doesn't win, are greater now than before in the winner-take-all system that invites Code S quality players.


2) It's affirmative action for foreigners; only Korea WCS will be relevant.

Well if Code B Koreans switch over, there will actually be a decent amount of competition for foreigners. Only foreigners who have proven themselves to be on a level higher than Code B will be capable of advancing through said Code B Koreans. And when they face the Code A, Code S quality Koreans in the seasonal finals (and other non-WCS events), they will either prove themselves worthy, or be overshadowed by their betters. At the end of the day, under this system, only the best of the best will be featured in the world finals. Even a semi-careful look at the proposed system should be enough to show that no one will breeze through on points without earning those points against the cream of the crop.


3. Koreans will conspire to dominate all three scenes.

I guess maybe this is a possibility, but honestly, the bad PR combined with the loss of benefits (being locked into the one region) almost certainly exclude any teams from actually going through with something like this. Sure, some teams might spread themselves out to keep some options open, but that will only serve to raise the overall quality of play and practice for the foreign scenes, thus increasing the likelihood of actual growth on the part of foreigner players.


4. This dilutes the GSL/OSL, makes it not as competitive.

I fail to see how it will significantly dilute the GSL. If enough lower level players switch over to make the KR scene become that diluted, than they would have only reversed the situation. The GSL now becomes an easier tournament than the EU WCS (for example) because of all the switch-overs. But that's ridiculous. Why would you switch over to a tournament system that will shortly become as difficult or more difficult than the one you are already in? Most likely, only a select few will make the switch; and that will not be enough to really dilute the KR tournaments, but will raise the overall quality of play in the EU/NA tournaments.

As far as I can tell, this is one of the best things, if not the best thing, to happen to the SC2 competitive scene ever. It simplifies a complex relationship between the multiple leagues and tournaments that are going right now, consolidates the scene into being more cohesive and inclusive, and will most likely lead to an overall rise in the standards of game-play for both Koreans and foreigners. And the extra bonus is that it probably will also lead toward a more standardized and equalized opportunity to "go pro"; as now a foreigner doesn't have to rely on a miracle run through a stacked tournament to possibly make a splash and get some cash. They can do well in their specific scene and that might be enough to keep them afloat until they can improve the point of making that real jump into the territory of legends.

Blizzard is genius for this move. I am just hoping the community recognizes genius when they see it and doesn't let their knee-jerk-pessimism get in the way of what could be an amazing opportunity to grow the scene in a very healthy, effective way.

On April 03 2013 15:24 Clefairy wrote:
@sk__mc

No matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives.

However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do.

Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate.

Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format.

LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives.

If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think?

And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League?

It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players.

Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final?

@LiquidTaeJa

I should go to America or Europe!

@EGJYP

Should I just go to America~~~~

@LGIMSeed

@sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers

@EGOzRC

Hmmm... Do I need to go to America

@Liquid_HerO

Is it time for me to leave???

@LiquidTaeJa

WCS Cake



@NsHsJjakji

@LiquidTaeJa It tasted bad...

On April 03 2013 20:03 Talin wrote:


Or they could practice harder, become good enough, and hope for a higher finish.

I just don't get how people can so persistently push an argument that defies basic logic and purpose of competing.

On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.

Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?

I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit.

On April 03 2013 20:07 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
That's it, blizzard is officially trying to destroy esports. ._.

Instead of supporting the only healthy and half-sustainable scene by changing the access to the game (korea!) they milk every single drop out of international viewership, meanwhile destroying all local scenes by allowing ridiculous travelling. Also, what happens to OSL , GSL and Proleague?

I won't watch WCS. And anyone who does should ask himself exactly why... and no i'm not overexaggerating. This has been going on for a long time and i've had enough of it. There won't be a serious competition anywhere with blizzard trying to equalize all reagions and organizing tournaments on their own just to pleaase western people who will in turn buy some "3-day-pass" or any kind of shit.

On April 03 2013 20:11 opterown wrote:

or "better retire cos this really has no future for me." two ways to look at it

On April 03 2013 20:11 opterown wrote:

or "better retire cos this really has no future for me." two ways to look at it