• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:49
CEST 16:49
KST 23:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)8Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over2New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!40Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles3
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2?
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
Which box art did your first copy of StarCraft 1 have? BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro24 Group F Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3762 users

Reaching Grand Masters with the xbox360 controller - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 20 Next All
Meatloaf
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Spain664 Posts
March 27 2013 22:58 GMT
#101
whatever the server , huge props to this guy please he plays better with a gamepad than most of the population of SC2 around the world.

yeah , GM in SEA bla bla bla , he'll not be in GSL but it is not less amazing to do this.

keep on going!
dacimvrl
Profile Joined December 2011
Vatican City State582 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-27 23:14:03
March 27 2013 23:13 GMT
#102
On March 28 2013 04:34 hku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2013 03:11 Aiursc wrote:
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote:
I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.

Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.

What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.

Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.

This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.

Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?

Stop being a pile of giant pricks.

Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.

GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.


You're a racist and a liar.


racist? you serious? There is definitely a sizeable gap of skill between SEA and other servers.
Yokwe
Profile Joined December 2012
United States35 Posts
March 27 2013 23:14 GMT
#103
Don't any of these people saying it's impossible realize people have gotten to GM on NA by 2raxing with scv pull only, 6 pooling only, and cannon rushing only?

Stop being naive and putting NA GM on a high pedestal, it's more about grinding the games out than it is about being good.
"Pudding...wait for it....pops." - Bill Cosby
JKM
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark419 Posts
March 28 2013 00:25 GMT
#104
Well that is really impressive, but I'll join the nay-sayers about reaching GM (note: cheesing to GM doesn't count, since being awesome with the controller wont really affect that too much ).

BUT GL in your efforts towards GM!
1338, one upping 1337
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
March 28 2013 02:33 GMT
#105
On March 28 2013 00:11 emythrel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote:
Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?


it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.

It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.


Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though

Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.

Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.

There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time.
Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.

I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.

I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3


Cress
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
March 28 2013 05:08 GMT
#106
He's streaming right now and really good. He is definitely solid masters atm and he's getting better. His stream is great it shows the keys.

Chances are he would destroy you at SC2 lol... amazing I am so impressed.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
BoB_KiLLeR
Profile Joined September 2010
Spain620 Posts
March 28 2013 05:10 GMT
#107
Good luck dude, would be amazing if you really get into GM.
imperator-xy
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Germany1377 Posts
March 28 2013 05:29 GMT
#108
if you could actually get really good with this youd have high chances of getting a sponsorship... i dont know how good grand master on sea is, but if you got enough time you should maybe try to get good enough to be able to participate at mlg or something
Kaitokid
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany1327 Posts
March 28 2013 05:33 GMT
#109
On March 28 2013 11:33 Cress wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2013 00:11 emythrel wrote:
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote:
Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?


it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.

It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.


Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though

Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.

Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.

There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time.
Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.

I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.

I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3


Cress


you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
March 28 2013 05:53 GMT
#110
I belive in you.

Elfi have been rank 1 gm but he have something 100 apm? And he uses ONE control group for army !
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
March 28 2013 07:33 GMT
#111
On March 28 2013 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:
if you could actually get really good with this youd have high chances of getting a sponsorship... i dont know how good grand master on sea is, but if you got enough time you should maybe try to get good enough to be able to participate at mlg or something


I think that Sea does not have very many players. Its kinda like getting GM on the test server. I could be wrong though.
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
March 29 2013 04:45 GMT
#112
On March 27 2013 16:29 thezanursic wrote:
Maybe you should just buy a keyboard and a mouse and EZ mode to a MLG championship, hahahaha.

Seriously though if you are that good at, I wonder how high you could get with a mouse (Did you ever try?)?


The xbox360 controller thing just kinda happened. I played star craft 2 casually. Figured I would just keep doing it and no I've never played a single game of star craft 2 with the mouse and keyboard. Over time I noticed I was beating players who should have a huge advantage over me.

In reality I'm super chobo, I guess you could say I do "alright".

If I used the keyboard and mouse with no experience I bet I would be bronze ^^;
Quochobao
Profile Joined October 2010
United States350 Posts
March 29 2013 04:49 GMT
#113
Cress, you're such a reasonable and humble guy. For that alone, keep doing what you are passionate about!
Best or nothing.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
March 29 2013 08:17 GMT
#114
On March 28 2013 14:33 Kaitokid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2013 11:33 Cress wrote:
On March 28 2013 00:11 emythrel wrote:
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote:
Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?


it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.

It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.


Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though

Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.

Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.

There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time.
Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.

I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.

I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3


Cress


you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime


And out of the Progamers in GM a large portion is studying or doing other stuff in their life apart from playing SC2 too. There aren't many "progamers" who can actually live from playing Starcraft, and many of the young kids are also still going to school while rocking GM.

QuackPocketDuck
Profile Joined January 2011
410 Posts
March 29 2013 08:33 GMT
#115
@#$ I'm shoot myself in the head of someone gets GM with xbox controller, please don't help this guy !!!
I bought a pack of cigarettes for $20, What have you done for your country today?
VelJa
Profile Joined October 2011
France1109 Posts
March 29 2013 08:45 GMT
#116
Man, this is awesome.
U are the hero that sc2 needs. :D
ANGRY_KOREA_MAN. -- Giff WC4 plz
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-29 08:56:08
March 29 2013 08:45 GMT
#117
WTF? game pads wear out in 5 months? What kind of garbage is that?

I recommend you try Blizzard's micro challenge map called "Starcraft master", and see how well you can do. I think that would be more impressive than getting to grandmaster, since at one point —or even now— people get to Grandmaster just from lots of playing using rush/all-in strategies (like the advertised GM 6 pooler). Then again, the reason such people do well is because of their micro execution in that strategy.

Obviously Starcraft Master is easy for someone with a keyboard and mouse, but I wouldn't think it'd be the case for someone using a handheld controller.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
xAdra
Profile Joined July 2012
Singapore1858 Posts
March 29 2013 09:11 GMT
#118
On March 28 2013 08:13 dacimvrl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2013 04:34 hku wrote:
On March 28 2013 03:11 Aiursc wrote:
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote:
I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.

Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.

What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.

Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.

This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.

Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?

Stop being a pile of giant pricks.

Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.

GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.


You're a racist and a liar.


racist? you serious? There is definitely a sizeable gap of skill between SEA and other servers.

Getting rank1 gm in SEA within 3 days is definitely lying. Also, as a diamond in SEA I easily got masters in NA, where I notice people are about the same level as a league lower's equivalent in SEA. So maybe NA has got more pros at the highest levels, but the lower leagues are much worse than SEA. I find advocating close mindedness a hilarious thing that has proven to be counter productive. Elitists will always be elitist, so I guess there's no saving some people.
gingerfluffmuff
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria4570 Posts
March 29 2013 09:33 GMT
#119
Can we please all agree that being GM outside of Korea is no big deal? It can achieved with mass grinding and a few anti-meta builds.

OT: Playing with a 360 controller is awesome, huge props to the OP. But outside of getting people interested for your own stream its pointless. (Just send one of your workers at game start to the opponent, this should make the game also harder)
・゚✧:・゚+..。✧・゚:・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚ ゜・:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING *・゜・:・゚✧:・゚✧。゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:・゜・:・゚✧::・・:・゚・゚
Emperor
Profile Joined May 2012
Norway68 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-29 10:41:07
March 29 2013 10:40 GMT
#120
On March 29 2013 18:33 gingerfluffmuff wrote:
Can we please all agree that being GM outside of Korea is no big deal? It can achieved with mass grinding and a few anti-meta builds.

OT: Playing with a 360 controller is awesome, huge props to the OP. But outside of getting people interested for your own stream its pointless. (Just send one of your workers at game start to the opponent, this should make the game also harder)


Getting GM is pretty impressive on most servers. Not really on SEA though as its much easier than other servers. I know a low master EU player getting top GM on SEA in like a week or something. So its level cant possibbly be as high as the other servers.

Cool to see someone getting this far with a gamepad though.
Writer
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 20 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
2026 Week 21
IntoTheiNu 1039
SteadfastSC319
TKL 191
Rex112
CosmosSc2 58
EnkiAlexander 19
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 1306
SteadfastSC 319
TKL 191
Rex 112
CosmosSc2 58
Trap 13
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 3210
Bisu 2478
Jaedong 1372
Hyuk 944
EffOrt 866
Horang2 727
Light 532
Rush 306
Snow 281
Stork 261
[ Show more ]
Zeus 111
Pusan 55
ToSsGirL 42
Sexy 38
Aegong 31
soO 28
sorry 19
Terrorterran 18
zelot 15
Rock 15
Sacsri 13
SilentControl 12
firebathero 0
Dota 2
Gorgc5014
qojqva2748
Dendi1151
syndereN453
Counter-Strike
x6flipin34
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu243
Other Games
singsing2059
hiko1053
B2W.Neo772
Lowko273
Hui .269
Liquid`VortiX217
mouzStarbuck211
Pyrionflax102
KnowMe100
ArmadaUGS61
OGKoka 55
Trikslyr13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 431
lovetv 13
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile122
• StrangeGG 20
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV465
League of Legends
• Nemesis2375
• Jankos2025
• TFBlade865
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
1h 26m
Replay Cast
9h 11m
The PondCast
19h 11m
OSC
1d 7h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
4 days
Mixu vs TBD
Spirit vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Special KOR vs CHN
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.