So I started about five years ago, just using the game pad as a mouse to browse the internet and click on videos of music and play some small games or something that's how it started anyway.I started playing world of warcraft with it for awhile, was simple enough. That's how I was introduced to Star crafts 2 Esports.
My guild held that Thor pet in high regard and I had to have it for myself. So my story playing Star Craft 2 with the xbox360 controller began. I started playing the campaign I only had a few buttons mapped like the marine and the medic I knew which units to make .
Played through all of the campaign a few times getting all of the achievements on brutal. I played Terran for about the first year of my star craft 2 quest playing on the game pad. I only had about 3-4 hot keyed buttons. One to make Scv's one to make marines/marauders/medivacs but again that's all I needed to play Terran in season 1.
Had a problem with ladder anxiety back then my heart rate would go up and my hands would shake. So I mostly stuck to custom games both melee and unique ones. I would practice by myself against the AI trying to figure out my own build orders that I thought were cool. However I was not alone in this en-devour I had the Day9's Vod's to watch and I would apply the concepts he would talk about to my own play.
After a couple of months or so I started to play custom melee match's. I would still get anxiety with the increased heart rate and shakey hands, but it was a good chance to test out whatever crazy strat I would have thought of, 2 port banshee into mass marine or something.
One day I got put up against a diamond player in this melee custom It was on steps of war I believe, This was before the masters devision was set up. I did a basic timing attack off one base with two rax with tech labs and one with a reactor. This was back when I thought marauders were really OP in someway. Anyway I did a bit of damage with my 3 rax push and I followed it up with a medivac push while being an expansion.
Up in till this point I did not really think I could really compare to people playing on the mouse and keyboard. After this win I started to become a bit more confident. After awhile like most people I had gained some friends who were really big fans of playing star craft 2 and wanted to get better at it, I would play king of the hill custom games with these people.
They never really suspected that I played on the xbox360 controller. After awhile I would tell them one by one that I was playing on the xbox360 controller, I would get instant reactions of "Are you trolling me?". A few of them never believed me intill I gave them absolute proof and a few of them just took my word for it off a leap of faith and offered suggestions.
It took me about 8 months to arrive at a control setup that is even close to what I have now a lot of time and effort went into making just the controls.
At this point a few of my friends were saying I should start streaming my games. Now at this point I was probably functioning at about 40-60 apm only a fraction of what I have now and I still had pretty bad ladder anxiety and when you try to throw in the aspect of streaming and having people watching you it only intensifies that. So basically My first attempt at revealing myself to the community was not really something I was ready for.
Star craft 2 had only been out for maybe a year or so at this point. I had a decent stream quality nothing great. Got about 80 viewers but I ended up choking up too much. I was trying to switch to protoss at the time my builds were pretty wonky one base charge sentry and just weird builds.In the end I decided I would try again at a later date.
After about a year and a half of playing Star craft 2, I be friended this Canadian goes by the screen name Waffles. Now This Waffles character was a bit of a free spirit he had.
I guess what one could call a personalty defect at the time with liking to use racial words often. That got him a lot of hate even hate towards me for being friends with him. Hes since changes his vocabulary but its something worth taking note of as a lot of people remember me doing 2v2 with him in the past. However if it was not for him I don't think I would be at the level I am now. Hes since quit star craft 2 and moved on.
We played 2v2 a lot and that it helped me overcome quite a bit of anxiety I had towards playing the game, We were able to reach top 100 NA and something like top 200 world wide. Played against a lot of what we considered famous players like Protech and EGmachine and would win these matches. 2v2 does not really mean a lot but it was a morale booster for sure. Probably raise my Apm to something along the lines of 80-120 apm. That's only about half of what I have now but it was a clear sign that I was improving or at least my average natural apm was going up.
After about 2 years the game was getting a bit stale. There was a visible decrease in stream watchers and Heart of the swarm was quite far off. Due to various reason in my life I needed to take a break from playing star craft 2 consistently. I remember going on my twitch account and deleting all of the VOD's Waffles would often use racist remarks on some of the Vods and even though he was joking around in his own mind I suppose. People would take him pretty seriously. Even though I went through and deleted everyone One Vod escaped being deleted, unfortunately it was one of the oldest and poorest quality VOD's with waffles using somewhat inappropriate language.
I guess at some point someone found that Vod and thought my play was impressive. They decided to post it up on Reddit. Some of my friends who browse reddit more often then me alerted me too the post on Reddit. Which apparently was Top page for a little while. Not exactly the best VOD I would have wanted people to see, but I guess life works that way sometimes. Blizzard had also left me messages about the xbox360 controller on my twitch account. I only noticed them about a month later as I did not really log onto it anymore. They wanted to know how I pulled what I had done off and my key setup.
I was actually probably planning on putting star craft 2 down permanently before this incident. Maybe it was a call from fate saying "Hey This is awesome.. don't stop" I also could open my twitch mail box to see the same message from other people who saw my stream
So I decided to start streaming again, this time doing as much 1v1 as possible and to my surprise I had a little fan base going a few people that cheered me on every game Giving me words of encouragement. If it were not for these people there's no way I would be at the level I am at right now.
Well I've been doing this for three years now and I've achieved a lot. I've beaten hundreds of masters players both in wings of liberty and in heart of the swarm.
I've gotten really good with this thing =D. My current strength level hovers at about mid masters. I won't stop there, theres still greater height's and greater plateaus for me to break through.
Update Time
First off I wanna say to everyone who contacted me to offer words of encouragement. Thank you so much <(^,^)> There were some Grand masters and masters players who reached out to me to offer support as well, thank you to those guys as well <3.
As you know I have wrist problems, weak wrists you could say that's how I started using the xbox360 controller game pad. I never had wrist pain from using the game pad before and I assumed that it completely prevented it. So I ended up playing way to many hours forcing myself to play as fast as possible and I ended up injuring my wrist in the process. After some time my wrists seem to be healing and feeling strong again, but I should take it slow and steady from now and not get reckless and abusive towards my wrists xD. Sorry for not streaming more because of these issues.
Anyway, I've started learning Zerg now and my Protoss strategy's are borderline crazy *cough* CARRIERS *cough*. In the future I'd like to go into some builds that I was playing around with for zerg. I feel like zerg is more fun for me to play at the moment. Its refreshing and a new experience Although I have to admit smashing masters players with carriers is absurdly fun.
This section might give you an idea of the of stuff I've been experimenting with in hots. As a player I'm very innovative both with my builds and with the game pad I guess you could say. Its both a blessing and a curse.
I have some of new and interesting to say the least new builds I've been playing around with for protoss. I opened a discussion thread earlier this week about building carriers in PvT and PvZ hope you enjoy it : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416113
My Terran in wings quickly became one of my best match ups. I would do my 18 nexus build and follow up with 3 gate pressure at 7 minutes. I would be pushing at the terrans front door with 8 stalkers and a zealot while getting the tech up back at home, would get something like 9 minute charge and 11 minute storms with upgrades and take a 3rd. the gateway pressure would force worker pulling and you could do a lot of damage. Obviously if they were one basing it you would take a more defensive stance and get a robo for defense against banshee's and any sort of 1/1/1 all in. You would also have warp gate ready at 6 minutes to defend against any heavy rax attack's.
Anyway a lot has changed for terran and the viablty of gateway pressure has gone down by quite a bit. Doing any sort of gateway pressure will get shut down by a widow mine or two. So I've been taking a more defensive approach against terrans right from the start in hots. A lot of people who have been watching my stream have been asking for build orders for my 18 nexus I figured I would do a short little build order here. This will be my modifyed one I've been using in hots.
My build order would go something like:
9/Pylon 13/gate 15/gas (Put 3 workers in gas when it finishes)
(burn 3 cronoboosts on your nexus and let yourself get supply capped at 18) (you can scout on 9 supply or on 13 or when you plant the nexus down at 18 supply, I usually 13 scout, its up to you though)
18/nexus @400min @ 3 minutes in game time 18/Cyber core @ 150 min 18/pylon @ 100 min 18/probe @ 50 min 18/Zealot @ 100 min
(when your second pylon finishes you should resume probe production and be making a zealot)
(your cyber core should be finishing up right before one of your probes)
(go ahead and cronoboost your warp-gate tech when your core finishes and make your mother-ship core you should be at 23 supply with the momma core)
23/Mothership core/ Spend one crono on core to get it out faster (you will need to core to scare away reapers) 23/build a stalker right as your zealot is finishing up 25/build 2 gateways @150 min each ( you should start building probes again at both your nexus's use your cronoboost on the warp gate tech in till its finished) 27/build your second stalker right as your first one is wrapping up
(You can either scout for an expansion from the Terran with your stalker or your mothership core both will work. If the Terran is showing aggression you will need the nexus cannon though) (You will have warp gate tech done at 6 minutes and a nexus cannon at 6 minutes in game time exactly makes for a very nice expand defensive build)
From here on out its just a matter of response's I've been playing around with putting blind cannons in my mineral lines if the Terran is not expanding
(robo can work too but eats into your gas a lot more and won't help later in the game against drops. The cannons are mostly a defense against widow mines that would dropped at 7 minutes or so game time)
If they are expanding I put down a twilight and take my gas's while cronoing out probes its okay to not be using your warp In's from your 3 gates not unless you feel you need them.
I still get a forge for a +1 upgrade even if the terrans going for a 10 minute push and I've been playing around with rushing out storms getting storm started before charge even. After you get storm you can take a very safe 3rd against bio, They won't be attacking you intill they have ghosts, although you may want to put on some aggression before they do though.
I'm still not sure how I should respond to a mech player in the mid game. I can usually win by preventing them from taking a third, but its not always reliable. This build does pretty well against early heilon openings as you can do a warp in of 3 stalkers at 6 minutes for a total of 5 stalkers as well as having the nexus cannon
All in all I think I have a decent ground work layed down for Pvt.
I feel like this match up was a lot more solid in wings as well. There's about 3 new factors I've been struggling with. The new maps make it more difficult to take a 3rd not imposable, you just can't be as greedy as before for fear of getting the 3rd killed by lings. No more easy force fielded chokes like cloud kingdom or the super easy 3rd in entombed. Swarm hosts are trouble to deal with if you don't have colossus defending the 3rd and vipers shut down my fan favorite carrier build in wings ^^;.
I've been doing a lot of gate way expanding in hots and over all they seem safer then in wings because of the nexus cannon however I've not sure what reliable pressure to do with the gate way expand or what advantages the gate way expand would provide to me in hots, been testing a lot of things. This is sort of an example of my innovation being a bit of a curse insisting on testing gate way expands. Who knows maybe I will figure out something amazing. Nothing incredible as of yet though. That's not to say I don't beat master zergs. I just don't have a good ground work layed down to beat high masters zergs who are very refined just yet.
Probably one of the most different match ups from wings of liberty for protoss. In wings it was as simple as don't die to cheese like proxy 2 gate/cannon rush and don't die to a 4 gate. Then worry about how to get more colossus then your opponent while not dieing to one of the 3 tech choices Gateway>Stargate>Robo. In hots things are very different. Probably in a good way, 1 gate expands are more viable it seems although I have yet to play around with them too much. Been playing with One base Star gate openings and Dark shrine openings. Nothing feels incredibly solid to me as of yet. I'll see in the future though. Maybe a gosu protoss will wanna practice the match up in till it becomes one of my bests =D.
Its been asked for a number of times. My exact detailed explanation of my control setup that I use for the game pad. I'll go over it here, so you can even try it for yourself. Maybe you'll even gain a new found respect for how I'm able to pull it off ^^;. I don't think the setup I use is the most effective one. There are a few others that would potentially be better. Its like changing your hot keys on a keyboard though takes months to get used too. So I've decided to stick with the setup I have right now with potentially changing a few buttons here and there in the future.
I added a short little video explaining how exactly I have each button set up.
I fail to mention that I move the directional keys with the left analog stick which allows me to move the camera without help from the mouse. I move the mouse with the right analog stick. I use the mouse clicks with the trigger buttons. They are switched from a normal mouse though the right trigger uses the left mouse click and the right trigger uses the left mouse click. Its just more comfortable I found.
(Warning: Not representative of actually game play. Watch other VOD's for that.
Now I have put together a text version of my controls for people also:
These controls however are not really the most effective way to play I believe, for explain you would be better off binding shift to say the right bumper, So your hand won't have to cross your fingers in a weird way.
I have the Left control stick bound to move the directional buttons so I don't need to use the mouse to move the screen I can move them both at the same time, its an interesting concept. The left stick also can be pushed to bind hot keys
So I would push the left control stick in and push one of the directional buttons on the game pad to bind something 1-4. When I push the left control stick in it changes certain buttons on the keyboard also. Which effectively doubles the amount of buttons on the game pad for me to use. The left stick also allows me to queue up actions on units when held.
I will try to give a rough breakdown here of what buttons do what and if they change if the left stick is pushed or not.
I play on grid also, which will allow me to play all races while having all the buttons I need mapped.
The first key is the button on the game pad it uses the second will be, the keyboard stroke it transmits
A=Q while left stick is pressed changes to A
X=W while left stick is pressed changes to S
Y=X while left stick is pressed changes to R
B=Z while left stick is pressed changes to D
We just doubled the amount of keys we can use by doing this trick.
Start button: 5 Back button: B
Directional buttons Up=1 Right=2 Down=3 Left=4
Left Analog stick: bind hotkeys/changes key layout. controls camera movement Right Analog stick: controls the mouse Also pushes number 6 when pushed
Left Bumper: Stop Command Right Bumper: Attack Command
The Trigger Buttons are switched here,
Left Trigger Button= Right mouse click Right Trigger Button = Left mouse click
It recently occurred to me I've never played one game using the keyboard and mouse, not even a custom game. I guess I'm committed to see how far I can push the limits of this. Star craft 2 is more about effective accurate actions then being extremely fast. Sure I'm fast with the xbox360 controller about 220 natural apm. Do you need to draw box's over the entire screen all at once? The answer is probably no.
When I was platinum I was consistently told That's impressive cress but I don't think you can make diamond with this.
When I was diamond I was consistently told That's impressive cress but I don't think you can make master's with this.
In that moment when they said that. They were absolutely right. However eventually I broke those limits. I obviously have a long road ahead of me to consistently play at a grand masters level.
Its a road I'm willing to travel though. Even if I need to play everyday for the next year or two just to reach it. Mid masters is pretty far away from a Grand masters level. I know that.
What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Would it change perspectives or inspire people? Come so far. Why stop now?
I know I've touched on this question briefly. The short answer was, that its a comfortable way to play. Its clear though I need to go into as much detail as possible. I actually spent a lot of years using a mouse and keyboard to do gaming. The mouse would cause me discomfort though. Wrist pain and carpal tunnel can be two of the biggest draw backs to using a mouse that I did not like personally. I tried those stress relief mouse pads and attempted to have proper posture, but it did not really work for me.
Maybe some other people have ways of making a mouse work for them with limited pain/no pain? I also got back pain I guess from trying to conform to using the keyboard. I know that was probably just bad posture. I know wrist pain is a difficult problem for a lot of heavy mouse user's though. Maybe Liquid TLO is an example of this?
Either way. I started turned away from PC gaming for a little while and getting back into console gaming and really enjoyed the comfort it provided so after awhile I started to treat my Pc like a console and thats how playing video games with the game pad started. It was always my number 1 reason for using the game pad.
Putting myself out there for the community is just a side effect. I've been doing this in secret for years now and would still be doing it even if I never revealed myself from the shadows of the void =D.
I'm not forced into any sort of position while using the game pad. Can move freely and have no wrist pain. Just in general more comfortable. I only have one set of wrists after all.
I know this might be a bit complicated so I have a video to help a bit
This is a video of me playing earlier today. Notice how I can change positions dramatically while playing and still have near perfect micro. It really gets my blood flowing. Lets me concentrate more then my opponent and out play them.
XD In all seriousness. I hope this makes more sense to people. No wrist pain no back pain and still able to play like a boss =D.
One factor that could help out a bit with precision while using the thump stick for me. Is that I have double jointed thumbs. So maybe I can get a lot more range of motion then the average person? dunno? It's definitely possible though
That's impressive cress but I don't think you can make Grandmasters with this.
Seriously though, it is really impressive what you're able to do with the controller. However, I'm a little concerned that Blizzard will be inspired to create another N64 Starcraft.
It will be nearly impossible for you to get GM, not because of a lack of knowledge, but because of certain mechanics that will not be available to you with a gamepad. This isn't a case of "That's impressive cress but I don't think you can make grandmaster's with this", this is a case of "That's nice, but you will be limited by mechanics and will not be able to scrape through masters and get top 8 aside from the first 2 weeks of a new season where everyone has little to no points aside from pros"
Wow watching this on stream is really cool... You save a ton of time by scrolling the screen around with the joystick. Have you considered upping your sensitivity?
On March 27 2013 08:22 Slithe wrote: That's impressive cress but I don't think you can make Grandmasters with this.
Seriously though, it is really impressive what you're able to do with the controller. However, I'm a little concerned that Blizzard will be inspired to create another N64 Starcraft.
I disagree....
I watched some of your vods from your stream and damn your mechanics are good with that controller LOL. Yes you will hit a cap eventually, but there are some very well known players with ridiculously low APM (goody, whitera, axslav to name a few). Grandmaster is difficult but definitely do-able. Good luck!
I like the impossible comments, just need to log on at a right time and you are gm if Blizzard messes up haha. Should get Microsoft sponsoring you with infinite gamepads ! Pretty nice control though.
Good luck man! I'm still amazed even to this day you're in masters with a controller, I just didn't think it was possible to even come close to being that good on a pad, as you say you may as well go the whole hog now and I hope you can do it :D
I like the comments along the lines of "it's impossible to make it to gm with a 360 pad" "it wont happen" "impressive, but you wont make it"... all those comments made with the certainty and the firm conviction of narrow mindedness that is found through the history of mankind and perfectly align with statments like "the world is flat, and if you continue to sail west you will fall of the earth"... don't get discouraged by all the very smart and successful sc2 players here (who have made it into plat several seasons in a row!!) and keep working on it!
The people saying that this is impossible are the same people who would have said it was impossible for you to hit masters when you were diamond, diamond when you were plat etc. Ignore those idiots.
If you want to practice pvp or talk some theory with a gm level protoss message me @ SethN.835
Just a general message offtopic - anyone can be gm if they just put the time into it in the same way anyone can be masters.
On March 27 2013 09:08 408xParadox wrote: Im less impressed by you making it to masters than saddened by the masters i have seen on your stream and how bad they look.
I'm sure he has the system rigged to only play "really bad masters". People are way too critical of players when they're watching. Chances are you just don't realize how bad you are while you're playing.
On topic, very impressive play, especially considering it's with a 360 controller. Might consider increasing your scroll speed though, seems to be a bottleneck in your play.
As always, good luck Cress. It's really encouraging to see people break the mould of expectations for "good" play. I'm always surprised that people think a keyboard is a gaming device of superiority, when really it was derived from the typewriter. Sure the keyboard works for RTS, but that's because people don't know any differently and there are ingrained biases on play with RTS and computer peripherals. So really I just love the idea of someone not using the standard tools.
Anyway: I don't see why there's any reason you can't reach grandmasters. Some people are going to try make GM seem like a place for 300 apm and 40 hotkeys, so I'd love to see you make it. Hopefully some higher level players are interested in helping you out.
not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
On March 27 2013 09:42 jinorazi wrote: not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
This sums up my thoughts about all this perfectly.
Still, I saw Cress stream and it was awesome. You did something new and optimized it to a very respectable degree.
On March 27 2013 09:42 jinorazi wrote: not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
This is an insult to virtually every sc2 player; please think this through. How can you even look at the mechanics of top-level players and imply that sc2 has become a game that requires less skill? All this means is that someone can reach masters league with more of an emphasis on macro. No offense to op, but I seriously doubt that he would be able to win at the highest level of play with a controller. Don't pass judgement on an entire race/game because of the method of play of one guy...wtf.
On March 27 2013 09:42 jinorazi wrote: not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
This is an insult to virtually every sc2 player; please think this through. How can you even look at the mechanics of top-level players and imply that sc2 has become a game that requires less skill? All this means is that someone can reach masters league with more of an emphasis on macro. No offense to op, but I seriously doubt that he would be able to win at the highest level of play with a controller. Don't pass judgement on an entire race/game because of the method of play of one guy...wtf.
it's a fact that sc2 requires less mechanical skill, micro makes less of a difference because things like improved pathfinding put everyone on a much more even footing, macro is easier because MBS, etc. no one ever claims that sc2 requires more mechanics than bw.
that just means "skill" in sc2 is measured differently, ie how well can you choose builds that counter your opponents
On March 27 2013 09:42 jinorazi wrote: not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
This is an insult to virtually every sc2 player; please think this through. How can you even look at the mechanics of top-level players and imply that sc2 has become a game that requires less skill? All this means is that someone can reach masters league with more of an emphasis on macro. No offense to op, but I seriously doubt that he would be able to win at the highest level of play with a controller. Don't pass judgement on an entire race/game because of the method of play of one guy...wtf.
It is impossible to do this and be a macro player, you could make GM easy with a gamepad. People made it by only 6 pooling and cannon rushing. But to try and make GM and be a macro player is just laughable.
On March 27 2013 09:42 jinorazi wrote: not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
This is an insult to virtually every sc2 player; please think this through. How can you even look at the mechanics of top-level players and imply that sc2 has become a game that requires less skill? All this means is that someone can reach masters league with more of an emphasis on macro. No offense to op, but I seriously doubt that he would be able to win at the highest level of play with a controller. Don't pass judgement on an entire race/game because of the method of play of one guy...wtf.
i dont see how its an insult... o.O
you see sc2 as a lesser game because one man, with years of practice, is able to beat mid masters players on NA with a controller.
Everything about that is completely ridiculous.
anyways
awesome job with the controller sir, I played some fps's with the 360 controller because I love it after playing halo for a decade, couldn/t imagine playing sc2 with it though. kudos.
I think making GM with a controller is the same as with a keyboard and mouse. I personally could not play on a gamepad, but once you are used to it and comfortable with it, you are adapted and should play at pretty similar skill levels. Maybe you can not win a major lan with a controller, but it is extremely easy to make GM, and skill should easily overcome the slight handicap if the op even considers it a handicap.
well. he said he has already defeated a few GMs... so I believe it's possible for him to reach GM with the controller. GL dude. Listen to some of these disbelievers. Listen to them but don't take in any of it! Go for it
On March 27 2013 08:31 eNtitY~ wrote: Grandmasters is infinitely harder to get than Masters, it's not possible and won't happen.
Would you have said that it would be possible to reach masters with just an Xbox controller?
I dont want to rain on the OP's parade and I think his journey has revealed alot about the potential of the controller. But I think the difference between Masters and GM is night and day. I mean can you micro 2x drops+ army and also keep up with immaculate macro? Surely all the little "micro tricks" that are pretty much essential at the top level of play are nigh on impossible with a pad no?
You can win at masters simply by being better and smarter than the average NA masters.. But when you take that step up to High Masters(like 1300+) and into GM, you are talking guys who are generally very smart with very strong skillsets to complement this. I won't say don't try as you should try, I won't say you cant as I don't believe in the word, but I would say its highly unlikely.
Saying that, I am a mid-masters Terran and would be more than happy to practice with you. Add me Gangstarr 380. Would love to play with you simply to find out whether GM is actually possible. I'll be the first to admit I'd love to be proved wrong!
Also I think what you've done should be a sign to Blizzard to port this game to 360/ps3. Most players will suck at it and not have the 2 years of patience like you did, but I can't see the harm in it since it is clearly physically possible. It will bring more exposure to the game and I'm sure some people will like the game but not like the controller and thus buy the PC version!
Edit: I thought I would throw in. I could easily believe you could take a game off a GM if you practiced enough. The difficulty would be in getting good enough to not only be within the MMR range of these guys but to be in the Top200. I mean it's a tough road for most of us on M&K.
On March 27 2013 09:42 jinorazi wrote: not the derail too much but i think it kinda speaks for the game itself.
at first i thought this was impossible because i'm thinking of stuff like muta micro, accurate clicks like goon control vs spider mines, load/unload micro, marine splitting and dodging would cap the player, then further thinking such intensive micro is most focused on terran and micro prowess of bw is almost all gone in sc2.
i think you're doing great stuff being unique and able to do things not many can do at a higher level than most, but at the same time to think sc2 has become a game that can be played with a controller (in master) disappoints me.
This is an insult to virtually every sc2 player; please think this through. How can you even look at the mechanics of top-level players and imply that sc2 has become a game that requires less skill? All this means is that someone can reach masters league with more of an emphasis on macro. No offense to op, but I seriously doubt that he would be able to win at the highest level of play with a controller. Don't pass judgement on an entire race/game because of the method of play of one guy...wtf.
i dont see how its an insult... o.O
you see sc2 as a lesser game because one man, with years of practice, is able to beat mid masters players on NA with a controller.
Everything about that is completely ridiculous.
anyways
awesome job with the controller sir, I played some fps's with the 360 controller because I love it after playing halo for a decade, couldn/t imagine playing sc2 with it though. kudos.
you're misinterpreting my words or you're putting words in my mouth.
i was merely pointing out that sc2 does not focus on micro (and more on unit composition, build, w/e). and i'm almost certain controller doesn't work too well with wide range of playstyles or situations like bane vs bane or marine vs bane, things that needs quick and accurate micro but i'd love to be proven wrong since i say this without any experience playing sc with a controller, i'm only imagining it. i'm not discrediting OP, rather downplay sc2 if anything.
On March 27 2013 09:08 408xParadox wrote: Im less impressed by you making it to masters than saddened by the masters i have seen on your stream and how bad they look.
I'm sure he has the system rigged to only play "really bad masters". People are way too critical of players when they're watching. Chances are you just don't realize how bad you are while you're playing.
On topic, very impressive play, especially considering it's with a 360 controller. Might consider increasing your scroll speed though, seems to be a bottleneck in your play.
No as a high diamond zerg i realize I am god awful at this game. But when a zerg is on three base at the 18 minute mark, with no corrupters after having scouted triple stargate and a fleet beacon over six in game minutes before it saddens me. The same can also be said for cress though. He just sat on three base for 18 minutes with no scouting and amoved across the map. Had the zerg actually known how to play (doubting the zerg was master at all) this would have been an auto loss.
220 apm (I assume you mean sc2gears apm and not fake blizz apm) is quite impressive lol. Prob around what I have if not slightly more... would be glad to play you sometime
One day, I want to see you go pro. I want to see you in that MLG or GSL booth, connecting your controller to the computer, and then proceeding to woop some butt. And then I want to see you do a ceremony with your controller.
On March 27 2013 12:15 Chairman Ray wrote: One day, I want to see you go pro. I want to see you in that MLG or GSL booth, connecting your controller to the computer, and then proceeding to woop some butt. And then I want to see you do a ceremony with your controller.
While I don't think that'll ever happen that would be the most hilarious thing to see a player with a controller do that lmao
On March 27 2013 12:15 Chairman Ray wrote: One day, I want to see you go pro. I want to see you in that MLG or GSL booth, connecting your controller to the computer, and then proceeding to woop some butt. And then I want to see you do a ceremony with your controller.
Dude if this guy wins any games in a booth with his feet all kicked up on the table, hes going to have a 500 page fan club.
Hahaha, holy shit man :D! That really is impressive, I can't even play shooters with that damn controller! Great job right there, doesn't even matter if you 'only' make masters (mid-high) , its already impressive. Next challenge 'I owned you with a steering wheel, you mofo!' :D
On March 27 2013 08:31 eNtitY~ wrote: Grandmasters is infinitely harder to get than Masters, it's not possible and won't happen.
Would you have said that it would be possible to reach masters with just an Xbox controller?
I dont want to rain on the OP's parade and I think his journey has revealed alot about the potential of the controller. But I think the difference between Masters and GM is night and day. I mean can you micro 2x drops+ army and also keep up with immaculate macro? Surely all the little "micro tricks" that are pretty much essential at the top level of play are nigh on impossible with a pad no?
You can win at masters simply by being better and smarter than the average NA masters.. But when you take that step up to High Masters(like 1300+) and into GM, you are talking guys who are generally very smart with very strong skillsets to complement this. I won't say don't try as you should try, I won't say you cant as I don't believe in the word, but I would say its highly unlikely.
Saying that, I am a mid-masters Terran and would be more than happy to practice with you. Add me Gangstarr 380. Would love to play with you simply to find out whether GM is actually possible. I'll be the first to admit I'd love to be proved wrong!
Also I think what you've done should be a sign to Blizzard to port this game to 360/ps3. Most players will suck at it and not have the 2 years of patience like you did, but I can't see the harm in it since it is clearly physically possible. It will bring more exposure to the game and I'm sure some people will like the game but not like the controller and thus buy the PC version!
Edit: I thought I would throw in. I could easily believe you could take a game off a GM if you practiced enough. The difficulty would be in getting good enough to not only be within the MMR range of these guys but to be in the Top200. I mean it's a tough road for most of us on M&K.
I think the biggest obstacle he faces ahead of him is the amount of multitasking required to consistently beat high masters + GM players. He seems to have a lot of trouble moving the camera quickly from base position x to position y and thats goanna hurt him a lot against players who are good at abusing that. I think the only way he can get to GM within 1 year or someting like that would be to play an insanely abusive deathballoriented style, and try to minimize the amount of multitasking required by overinvesting in static structures while playing very defensively. From watching his games protoss definitely seems to fit very well, though I believe that ultra turtle mech could work as well (I saw him play one game with bio and that was tbh terrible).
This is sort of like the paralympics. You think "Oh these guys are disabled, but I bet they can be pretty good at their stuff!". And then it turns out that, not only are they good, but they're true athletes, that despite their disabilities are LEAGUES ahead of what you can even hope to achieve.
On March 27 2013 16:52 gronnelg wrote: This is sort of like the paralympics. You think "Oh these guys are disabled, but I bet they can be pretty good at their stuff!". And then it turns out that, not only are they good, but they're true athletes, that despite their disabilities are LEAGUES ahead of what you can even hope to achieve.
Inspiring. Well played sir, well played.
Edit: Typos.
This isn't really similar unless someone chops off some limbs to be eligible for said Paralympics.. ^_^
On March 27 2013 16:00 Type|NarutO wrote: Hahaha, holy shit man :D! That really is impressive, I can't even play shooters with that damn controller! Great job right there, doesn't even matter if you 'only' make masters (mid-high) , its already impressive. Next challenge 'I owned you with a steering wheel, you mofo!' :D
new challenge, get masters with mario kart steering wheel with the accelerator and brakes only. LOL
On March 27 2013 16:52 gronnelg wrote: This is sort of like the paralympics. You think "Oh these guys are disabled, but I bet they can be pretty good at their stuff!". And then it turns out that, not only are they good, but they're true athletes, that despite their disabilities are LEAGUES ahead of what you can even hope to achieve.
Inspiring. Well played sir, well played.
Edit: Typos.
You mean like Cartman participating in some sort of paralympics for the prize money, pretending to be mentally disabled, only to finish last place and get the consolation prize?
Anyways, I still can't believe somebody is this much better than me with an xbox controller... o.o Good job, gl hf.
On March 27 2013 09:09 dr.fahrenheit wrote: I like the comments along the lines of "it's impossible to make it to gm with a 360 pad" "it wont happen" "impressive, but you wont make it"... all those comments made with the certainty and the firm conviction of narrow mindedness that is found through the history of mankind and perfectly align with statments like "the world is flat, and if you continue to sail west you will fall of the earth"... don't get discouraged by all the very smart and successful sc2 players here (who have made it into plat several seasons in a row!!) and keep working on it!
Humans have known the world is round for 2000 years, films have overplayed on the idea that the world is flat just like many other things. What people are doing in the thread is posting their thoughts, this is a forum and its for discussion, not everyone needs your opinion.
I hope you do it! GM might be really hard just because of the sheer difficulty of getting GM and it's going to get harder now with cross server play. Not saying it's impossible, but I do think you get definitely get GM level MMR,etc quite easily with a bit of work. If you watch people like Goody or Elfi it looks like they are using an Xbox 360 controller to play so I don't see what would stop you. Don't you find forcefields hard?
On March 27 2013 16:00 Type|NarutO wrote: Hahaha, holy shit man :D! That really is impressive, I can't even play shooters with that damn controller! Great job right there, doesn't even matter if you 'only' make masters (mid-high) , its already impressive. Next challenge 'I owned you with a steering wheel, you mofo!' :D
new challenge, get masters with mario kart steering wheel with the accelerator and brakes only. LOL
rofl! Hell, I'd pay money to see someone get into silver with a Wii-mote
Don't listen to all the haters. I am (newly) GM on SEA and I watched your stream for a bit. You're apm is unbelievably high for a controller and more over startlingly precise.
I have a ~130 apm, and I got to GM with only creative strats. Don't let the haters get to you (you could probably kick 90% of these jerks with Terran). Do what you want and own those noobs.
At first glance it looks like the controller would put limitations on him, which means he would hit a wall eventually. If you think about it though, he has basically access to two mouse controllers, the two analogs. He can use one of them to navigate the camera, and the other to navigate the mouse. You cant do that with keyboard + mouse except if you bind the arrow keys to the left side of the keyboard, which no one does. Even if you do bind the arrow keys to the left side, you only have so many fingers available, while the OP can use just the thumbs to navigate both mouses, and then has 8 fingers left for buttons, while a keyboard + mouse player has only access to 5 fingers on the left hand. With enough practice, he could potentially become better than even someone that uses keyboard + mouse. The amount of practice required is much, MUCH higher though, so kudos to him that he is already at masters level.
I believe he can reach grandmaster rather easily if he keeps practicing and refining his mechanics. The mechanics on the controller are much harder to perfect than the mechanics on keyboard + mouse, but the ceiling is higher imo, so if he keeps practicing he should be able to get grandmaster just fine.
I believe you can do it. Hell, there are players like Goody,Elfi,Delphi in GM. They have worse APM than many people here, nevertheless they get their macro going and do everything that needs to be done. You can do it, too
And congratz, really immense achievement already, Cress for next MLG owning fools with his controller
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
I'm sorry, you did a good job to reach your level but you will never be GM with a game pad ... You will be stop by micro and multitask at a higher level. They only reason why GMs would play against you will be to see your limits in term of what a said before.
I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
I totally agree, there is no way you can make it to GM because of micro. From what I saw, he won't be master in EU with his actual level either. Nevertheless, I really admire what he did so far.
I'm pretty sure blizzard is very attentive to this new way of playing, but playing with a game controler will always be dedicated to casual gaming, such as FPS on console.
People like to tell me the same thing in fighting games, "you can't do that on pad". Proving them wrong is a lot of fun. I've always believed that nothing is impossible, you can master any tool given to you. With a high enough sensitivity and keen enough eyesight, a gamepad can do anything a mouse+keyboard can do. I think you'll get there if you try hard enough.
On March 28 2013 00:34 SChlafmann wrote: I totally agree, there is no way you can make it to GM because of micro.
See, that's really an issue of the limitation of the person being used to the hardware, and not the hardware itself. Obviously a gamepad is harder to get used to than a mouse, but it can technically perform all of the same tasks at the same speed.
On March 28 2013 00:41 Cel.erity wrote: People like to tell me the same thing in fighting games, "you can't do that on pad". Proving them wrong is a lot of fun. I've always believed that nothing is impossible, you can master any tool given to you. With a high enough sensitivity and keen enough eyesight, a gamepad can do anything a mouse+keyboard can do. I think you'll get there if you try hard enough.
On March 28 2013 00:34 SChlafmann wrote: I totally agree, there is no way you can make it to GM because of micro.
See, that's really an issue of the limitation of the person being used to the hardware, and not the hardware itself. Obviously a gamepad is harder to get used to than a mouse, but it can technically perform all of the same tasks at the same speed.
No it can't... The thing is that a guy practicing on a pad in a million years will be no close to the accuracy, control and speed that mouse and keyboard bring.
On March 28 2013 00:41 Cel.erity wrote: People like to tell me the same thing in fighting games, "you can't do that on pad". Proving them wrong is a lot of fun. I've always believed that nothing is impossible, you can master any tool given to you. With a high enough sensitivity and keen enough eyesight, a gamepad can do anything a mouse+keyboard can do. I think you'll get there if you try hard enough.
On March 28 2013 00:34 SChlafmann wrote: I totally agree, there is no way you can make it to GM because of micro.
See, that's really an issue of the limitation of the person being used to the hardware, and not the hardware itself. Obviously a gamepad is harder to get used to than a mouse, but it can technically perform all of the same tasks at the same speed.
No it can't... The thing is that a guy practicing on a pad in a million years will be no close to the accuracy, control and speed that mouse and keyboard bring.
Well, I don't think that's true. You're wrong when you say it can't, because the analog stick has the same capacity for quick micro in the hands of an AI. The only limitation is the synergy between the analog stick and its user. No doubt it's ridiculously hard to approach mastery of such a device for playing SC2, but it's silly to assume it to be impossible.
From watching his stream, it's quite evident he wouldn't even make Master in EU. Furthermore it's hard to believe that the games he was playing were masters. His decision making and builds were decent, but most of his opponents seemed absolute crap. The micro was also really sluggish. I just don't see how he can get into GM, even on NA with it. That he is already beating players with a game pad is impressive enough, I don't think I would get past bronze in his place, but there is no way it can match the accuracy, speed and versatility of KB/M.
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. I remember seeing the first one, when Cress was in platinum, or something. It was pretty impressive that the controller worked so well in SC2, but that's about it. I'm neither expressing doubt nor hope that Cress will make it to GM, only questioning why this thread exists in the first place.
If a controller works for you, that's awesome. I don't see why it wouldn't be similar to using a mouse and keyboard. The only baseline comparison that we have for SC and a controller was SC on N64. Considering you have 2 joysticks instead of one, and more buttons at your disposal it makes sense that an XBox controller would work better than an N64 one (also, multi-building selection and larger control groups probably help).
Whether or not Cress makes it to GM will clearly have more to do with actual skill at the game than the viability of using a controller to play in the first place. Why not just update the OP of the original thread?
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
You're a racist and a liar.
Oh jeez, this quote make my day. Nevertheless, he does have a point. SEA GM is like mid-ish master
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
You're a racist and a liar.
Someone is in denial. Also, please tell me how I'm racist or even a liar?
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
You're a racist and a liar.
How is that racist? The man is telling the truth, and the truth is SEA is an easy server because no notable players play on it. When global play came out, how many people where happy about playing on SEA? maybe the salty players that couldn't get past diamond on their native server which would make sense. Other than that, SEA server is terrible practice and its really nothing to be all happy about when getting gm on it ._. (no offense of course to SEA players, but it's the truth)
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
You're a racist and a liar.
racist? you serious? There is definitely a sizeable gap of skill between SEA and other servers.
Don't any of these people saying it's impossible realize people have gotten to GM on NA by 2raxing with scv pull only, 6 pooling only, and cannon rushing only?
Stop being naive and putting NA GM on a high pedestal, it's more about grinding the games out than it is about being good.
Well that is really impressive, but I'll join the nay-sayers about reaching GM (note: cheesing to GM doesn't count, since being awesome with the controller wont really affect that too much ).
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
if you could actually get really good with this youd have high chances of getting a sponsorship... i dont know how good grand master on sea is, but if you got enough time you should maybe try to get good enough to be able to participate at mlg or something
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
Cress
you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
On March 28 2013 14:29 imperator-xy wrote: if you could actually get really good with this youd have high chances of getting a sponsorship... i dont know how good grand master on sea is, but if you got enough time you should maybe try to get good enough to be able to participate at mlg or something
I think that Sea does not have very many players. Its kinda like getting GM on the test server. I could be wrong though.
On March 27 2013 16:29 thezanursic wrote: Maybe you should just buy a keyboard and a mouse and EZ mode to a MLG championship, hahahaha.
Seriously though if you are that good at, I wonder how high you could get with a mouse (Did you ever try?)?
The xbox360 controller thing just kinda happened. I played star craft 2 casually. Figured I would just keep doing it and no I've never played a single game of star craft 2 with the mouse and keyboard. Over time I noticed I was beating players who should have a huge advantage over me.
In reality I'm super chobo, I guess you could say I do "alright".
If I used the keyboard and mouse with no experience I bet I would be bronze ^^;
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
Cress
you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
And out of the Progamers in GM a large portion is studying or doing other stuff in their life apart from playing SC2 too. There aren't many "progamers" who can actually live from playing Starcraft, and many of the young kids are also still going to school while rocking GM.
WTF? game pads wear out in 5 months? What kind of garbage is that?
I recommend you try Blizzard's micro challenge map called "Starcraft master", and see how well you can do. I think that would be more impressive than getting to grandmaster, since at one point —or even now— people get to Grandmaster just from lots of playing using rush/all-in strategies (like the advertised GM 6 pooler). Then again, the reason such people do well is because of their micro execution in that strategy.
Obviously Starcraft Master is easy for someone with a keyboard and mouse, but I wouldn't think it'd be the case for someone using a handheld controller.
On March 28 2013 00:23 hku wrote: I just can't believe everyone is dying to express their close-mindedness.
Sure a controller is different. Sure the keyboard/mouse is the established setup. Yes the best players right now use keyboard/mouse.
What offends me is that the people here seem to believe that the only way to be good at Starcraft is to perfectly mimic Stephano or MC or MVP.
Starcraft's beauty comes from it's intricacies and how a person's personality shines through their play.
This man comes along, clearly massively talented (honestly, how many of you thought getting to masters with a controller was impossible before this thread?), and all anybody has to say is that it is impossible.
Don't you guys see that having different people playing differently is how the community, the strategic base, the knowledge of the game evolves?
Stop being a pile of giant pricks.
Just as a reminder to anyone that didn't read my previous post, I am newly GM on SEA.
GM on sea is like being the best worst player. None of the good sea players even play on sea, even a diamond can get gm on sea. Last time I played on sea I got rank 1 gm in 3 days it's ridiculous. Stop acting like your opinion is weighted more just because you can get gm on the easiest server.
You're a racist and a liar.
racist? you serious? There is definitely a sizeable gap of skill between SEA and other servers.
Getting rank1 gm in SEA within 3 days is definitely lying. Also, as a diamond in SEA I easily got masters in NA, where I notice people are about the same level as a league lower's equivalent in SEA. So maybe NA has got more pros at the highest levels, but the lower leagues are much worse than SEA. I find advocating close mindedness a hilarious thing that has proven to be counter productive. Elitists will always be elitist, so I guess there's no saving some people.
Can we please all agree that being GM outside of Korea is no big deal? It can achieved with mass grinding and a few anti-meta builds.
OT: Playing with a 360 controller is awesome, huge props to the OP. But outside of getting people interested for your own stream its pointless. (Just send one of your workers at game start to the opponent, this should make the game also harder)
On March 29 2013 18:33 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Can we please all agree that being GM outside of Korea is no big deal? It can achieved with mass grinding and a few anti-meta builds.
OT: Playing with a 360 controller is awesome, huge props to the OP. But outside of getting people interested for your own stream its pointless. (Just send one of your workers at game start to the opponent, this should make the game also harder)
Getting GM is pretty impressive on most servers. Not really on SEA though as its much easier than other servers. I know a low master EU player getting top GM on SEA in like a week or something. So its level cant possibbly be as high as the other servers.
Cool to see someone getting this far with a gamepad though.
I mean it's pretty clear that the only race you have a shadow of a chance with is protoss just because they are mechanically slow, but i still wouldn't put money on it. The difference between "mid-masters" and GM is astronomical.
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
Cress
you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
99% of those GM's who play in the free time have formed their life in such a way that they can play alot more than the average full-time employeed.
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
Cress
you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
99% of those GM's who play in the free time have formed their life in such a way that they can play alot more than the average full-time employeed.
Thats a gross overestimation, by your statistics, there would be 2 GM's per Server who did not "formed their life in such a way that they can pay alot more than the average full-time employeed". A better estimation would be 50%-70%, there are a lot GM players who do not spend that much time on SC2.
EDIT: Unless you have a family inc. children to supply "beeing a full-time employee" does not really cut into your SC2 Time, having a normal 40 hours job (with some overtime) still theoretically allows you to play 3-4 hours per day easily while maintaining a social life.
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
Cress
you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
99% of those GM's who play in the free time have formed their life in such a way that they can play alot more than the average full-time employeed.
Thats a gross overestimation, by your statistics, there would be 2 GM's per Server who did not "formed their life in such a way that they can pay alot more than the average full-time employeed". A better estimation would be 50%-70%, there are a lot GM players who do not spend that much time on SC2.
I think it's more accurate to say that pretty much every single grandmaster, at some point in time put in significantly more effort than most players to improve, and practice. Once they get there they might play no more than 1-2 games a day on average to maintain a skill level high enough to stay in GM.
On March 29 2013 20:29 kafkaesque wrote: You guys suck sometimes.
Here we have this guy who is extremely successful in a very unconventional way of playing and half of you are being Debbie Downers about it.
Some blame Protons being too easy, others blaming SC2 to be too easy, some say all his opponents suck or that it's impossible for him to reach GM...
How about just recognising that he's done something really impressive and rooting for him to reach his goals?
Agreed. But at least Cress has the right attitude of using their pessimism as motivation.
I think it's definitely possible, and it's just a matter of how much time and effort he's willing to put into it. And it will take a loooot of time and effort, rest assured, but it's an obtainable goal.
This is simply stunning!! Fantastic job dude, I wish you the best of luck in reaching GM even though it seems like luck isn't the reason for your success
Haha this is freaking awesome, hope you continue to improve. It would be legit awesome to see you at an event or something playing with an Xbox controller hahaha :D Pretty cool already to see all the buttons you're hitting. Cool
I think this is doable with protoss. Seeing your current level of skill and seeing that you are master makes me cringe. GM would be like 5 times the cringe. All of these protoss players like weedamins maximusblack and even he-who-must-not-be-named-ex (although he went out with a bang) bring a very negative image to protoss.
On March 29 2013 18:33 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Can we please all agree that being GM outside of Korea is no big deal? It can achieved with mass grinding and a few anti-meta builds.
OT: Playing with a 360 controller is awesome, huge props to the OP. But outside of getting people interested for your own stream its pointless. (Just send one of your workers at game start to the opponent, this should make the game also harder)
Thanks for posting your opinion gingerfluffmuff. I respect that, but I wish you would think outside the box a little bit. There's a lot of reasons to use the controller. The mouse and key board is a lot less comfortable way to play games for me.
I play on the xbox360 controller because I don't have to worry about posture/wrist pain/back pain and its a comfortable way to play the game. I can put my feet up on the desk and slink back into my chair. I'm even able to put my hand behind my back and still browse the internet. Its a lot less constricting for me and so I enjoy the game more.
If we both played a game to gather at a masters level. Your hunched over a desk and I'm sitting with my feet up on the desk does it really matter that your complaining to me about potential that may or not exist if I were to use a mouse and keyboard?
I also make my own wonky builds so that I enjoy the game more. Without being comfortable and actually having fun playing the game I would probably not stick around.
What you see as point less. Is actually me playing the game my way.
On March 29 2013 20:29 kafkaesque wrote: You guys suck sometimes.
Here we have this guy who is extremely successful in a very unconventional way of playing and half of you are being Debbie Downers about it.
Some blame Protons being too easy, others blaming SC2 to be too easy, some say all his opponents suck or that it's impossible for him to reach GM...
How about just recognising that he's done something really impressive and rooting for him to reach his goals?
Agreed. But at least Cress has the right attitude of using their pessimism as motivation.
I think it's definitely possible, and it's just a matter of how much time and effort he's willing to put into it. And it will take a loooot of time and effort, rest assured, but it's an obtainable goal.
Well in a way this is a goal I've been working towards since star craft 2 was released. I've seen massive spikes in my skill over time and I've stopped ruleing myself out. I play star craft 2 with the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not. It's just something that I'm sharing with you guys.
The kind comments some of you have left for me really means a lot. Makes me wanna keep streaming.
There's always gonna be a few people that are gonna hate I suppose
I got top 8 masters, I'm sure they were all like easy masters players though. Like bronze players that made it into masters or something. Low points etc.
Anyway its less about ranking more just about improving. Everyday I come closer to reaching god mode with the game pad XD
Nappa: Vegeta.... What does the scouter say about Cress's Gangnam style power level?!
This is amazing. I just watched your most recent game (A ZvP where you mass muta) and as soon as it ended I ordered an xbox wireless receiver off ebay. I don't care if I can't get to masters or above like you can. This looks like fun. I'll give it a try for a few months for sure :D
Some people on here are being a bit silly. There's no ultimate rule that dictates that a keyboard and mouse are the optimal tools with which to play this game. The best tools to use to accomplish any task are appropriate tools that you are most comfortable with. Cress has created a system that best accommodates the manner in which he wants to play, nobody really has justification to doubt him, nor should anyone feel bad for their own play after watching his stream. Different strokes.
I'm not 100% sure if this simply highlights massive differences in the skill sets required to play the 3 races in SC2. I don't want to say that your ability to play with the game pad speaks volumes to game balance, but I think it's safe to say you'd have to go back to the drawing boards if you wanted to reach the same goal with Terran, as opposed to Protoss. Simply from watching the speed of your gameplay as well as how you move the cursor around, I don't think you'd be able to make it very far. Protoss is a race that can compensate for a lot of mechanical deficiency as long as you just play a safe macro style, which seems to be your style from what I've seen on stream.
On March 31 2013 03:11 SupLilSon wrote: I'm not 100% sure if this simply highlights massive differences in the skill sets required to play the 3 races in SC2. I don't want to say that your ability to play with the game pad speaks volumes to game balance, but I think it's safe to say you'd have to go back to the drawing boards if you wanted to reach the same goal with Terran, as opposed to Protoss. Simply from watching the speed of your gameplay as well as how you move the cursor around, I don't think you'd be able to make it very far. Protoss is a race that can compensate for a lot of mechanical deficiency as long as you just play a safe macro style, which seems to be your style from what I've seen on stream.
This statement only really makes sense if Cress loses the capacity for improvement. If Terran is more micro-intensive, he will adapt if he chooses to switch races. If Cress' micro is lacking now, it may be because he may have yet to have encountered a situation where excellent micro was absolutely necessary.
On March 31 2013 03:11 SupLilSon wrote: I'm not 100% sure if this simply highlights massive differences in the skill sets required to play the 3 races in SC2. I don't want to say that your ability to play with the game pad speaks volumes to game balance, but I think it's safe to say you'd have to go back to the drawing boards if you wanted to reach the same goal with Terran, as opposed to Protoss. Simply from watching the speed of your gameplay as well as how you move the cursor around, I don't think you'd be able to make it very far. Protoss is a race that can compensate for a lot of mechanical deficiency as long as you just play a safe macro style, which seems to be your style from what I've seen on stream.
Well if you use the directional pad keys to move the screen instead of the mouse. It would appear you don't need as high of a mouse sensitivity. The game pad allows me to basically have my hands over the mouse while using WASD and the directional keys. Which is not something people do on the keyboard.
After putting a lot of hours into this I'm starting to think higher mouse sensitivity might be a bit overrated. Similar to how APM can be overrated. That's not to say its not a factor. Its just that maybe you should not immediately write something off because someone does not have a certain apm.
Given certain factors mouse sensitivity can also be something that should not be written off so quickly. I don't use the mouse to move the edges of the screen so that helps.
Also in Wing's I played a very aggressive style. It was my comfort zone being aggressive and macroing. In PvT I would do an aggressive 3 gate push on the terran with 8 stalkers and a zealot at 7 minutes behind my 18 nexus. I would use it to buy time for more tech, kill workers and force worker pulls. I would attack again at 9 minutes with charge and again at 11-12 min with some storms archons.
In PvZ I would like to sit on gate way aggression for quite awhile while teching up. In that match up though things have changed. Swarm hosts make sitting on gateway tech for too long dangerious and hydra's can get into positions better moving around the map. I need to adapt to these new things before figuring out new aggression openings.
Heart of the swarm has turned aggressive styles on their head. This aggression does not work anymore because of widow mines. Since I don't get detection that early. I've been able to be to figure out a few of aggressive timings in PVZ for hots, but as it stands right now its gonna take some time to adjust to the game and figure out some new timings.
So its only natural that I would revert to a more macro style for the first few months of hots trying to figure the game out. Eventually in like a year or so. I will probably be a full on aggressive player again. I like attacking a lot =). Sitting around macroing without the high aggression, feels icky.
On March 31 2013 03:11 SupLilSon wrote: I'm not 100% sure if this simply highlights massive differences in the skill sets required to play the 3 races in SC2. I don't want to say that your ability to play with the game pad speaks volumes to game balance, but I think it's safe to say you'd have to go back to the drawing boards if you wanted to reach the same goal with Terran, as opposed to Protoss. Simply from watching the speed of your gameplay as well as how you move the cursor around, I don't think you'd be able to make it very far. Protoss is a race that can compensate for a lot of mechanical deficiency as long as you just play a safe macro style, which seems to be your style from what I've seen on stream.
Well you can compensate for lack of mechanics by playing a turtly mechy style as terran. But yeh, playing a "straight-up" terran oriented play (more bio heavy --> actionpacked) is much more mechanically challenging than playing protoss.
On March 27 2013 08:31 eNtitY~ wrote: Grandmasters is infinitely harder to get than Masters, it's not possible and won't happen.
Would you have said that it would be possible to reach masters with just an Xbox controller?
My thoughts exactly. The more I play and practice. The more convinced I am this is possible.
The main goal was always to play star craft 2 and play it in a comfortable way without wrist pain though.
Some people were thanking me for sharing my control setup as they would also like to play in a casual way, maybe not as hard core attempting to be the best with it like I am, but I'm glad I could help a few people out.
On March 31 2013 04:52 Gamegene wrote: a youtube video would be a nice addition to the OP.
Well I tried to get some of my videos up on youtube however theres a problem. I get this Error :
(Error) YouTube has returned a non-working token. This is most likely due to your Google account disallowing YouTube sharing. You may wish to try logging into a different Google account and reconnecting.
I tried using different Internet browsers Opera and Fire fox. I did a Google search to see if I could figure out the issue but to no avail.
Anyone know if there might be a possible solution ?
On April 02 2013 19:52 Nekovivie wrote: I am really curious how this works, I wanna see a video with cursor enabled :>
I'm not really sure about the question being asked. I have the control setup put inside my OP. What do you mean by cursor enabled? Could you rephrase the question^^;?
On March 29 2013 17:45 VelJa wrote: Man, this is awesome. U are the hero that sc2 needs. :D
If only that were true XD. Events in RL seem to be digging into my ability to play a lot. I will keep trying though. Thanks to those few who believe in me. I <3 you guys
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
it also has some distinct disadvantages such as lack of buttons. How do you keep 7-8 control groups of units and buildings on a controller? you don't because it probably only has 8 buttons, all of which have to be bound to other things like the unit/building command card or using spells. There are always two sides to a story. Plus lets be honest here, no matter how good you got with a controller, there will always be people who plays with keyboard and mouse who stomp you because you are limited in ways they are not.
It's impressive that hes made it to master, I can't even do that with a mouse and keyboard but then perhaps it says more about the design of Protoss and their 1a deathball potential than his skill with a pad. I certainly couldn't imagine him having the same success with Terran or Zerg, you need too many hotkeys and control groups to play effectively with a pad.
Actually I have it set up in a way to expand the amount of buttons I have. If you are creative enough you will figure it out. It sounds like you've made a lot of assumptions. Which is fine, but I have vods of me winning against masters players using Zerg? Maybe they were just really bad masters players who knows. If I put time into any of the races I'm sure I could reach low masters with them. Protoss was my main race pick though
Setting up hotkeys is pretty effortless for me and the mouse precision is fine. The analog stick mouse speed however is far below what a normal mouse could do and its one of the first critiques people would probably notice.
Over the years of playing I'm noticed extremely sharp increases in my play both from changing how my controls work and from pratice I guess. I used to be so bad and chobo. I guess I still am. I would not be surprised if I had another increase in skill over the next year and was suddenly playing at 300 apm.
There's also another factor that this is not really a full time thing for me. Just something I've been working on in my free time. Who really reachs GM playing star craft 2 part time^^;? This post is just a declaration of my dedication to improving. I'm just a lowly masters player at the moment though.
I respect your opinion though and thank you for posting.
I wish you would look over all the information next time though before making assumptions but its cool <3
Cress
you seem to have a wrong impression about the players in gm.. I would say around 20-25% are actual progamers and the rest are just people who play in their freetime
Well that depends sometimes people get worn out from work. If your a student its different because your not wearing your body out doing anything stressful.
On April 04 2013 13:52 Demonhunter04 wrote: Did you get the 220 APM number from SC2Gears? What's your EAPM according to SC2Gears? I'm just curious.
My EPM Is something like 150. You might place too much faith on APM though XD. Maybe I'm not the fastest player on the planet, but at the very least it should show people what can be done with lower APM's. That is assuming 200 apm is low.
On March 27 2013 08:31 eNtitY~ wrote: Grandmasters is infinitely harder to get than Masters, it's not possible and won't happen.
thats a stupid thing to say and a bad mentality.
True, but I think it's more stupid to play sc2 with a xbox360.controller.
I would like to know your arguments about that.
Cress that's really good. I tried it just for fun with a ps3 controller and... no lol. It's not for me. I prefer my mouse and keyboard. Good job and good luck for breaking into high master
On April 04 2013 13:52 Demonhunter04 wrote: Did you get the 220 APM number from SC2Gears? What's your EAPM according to SC2Gears? I'm just curious.
My EPM Is something like 150. You might place too much faith on APM though XD. Maybe I'm not the fastest player on the planet, but at the very least it should show people what can be done with lower APM's. That is assuming 200 apm is low.
That's real time APM right? Not Blizzard time APM. 150 EAPM is like Korean pro level.
I think i could make it to Grandmasters with just a controller. Getting Grandmasters for me isn't hard at all normally so I think i got a chance with a controller.
Once you get there with an Xbox controller I suggest you try steering wheel controller next. Actually I want to see someone play with a kinect style interface. I wonder if I've still got my LEDs and reflective tape.
On April 16 2013 21:30 PiQLiQ wrote: I think i could make it to Grandmasters with just a controller. Getting Grandmasters for me isn't hard at all normally so I think i got a chance with a controller.
Everyone so anxious to proclaim how "easy" the game is for them, but achieving top 200 on any server shouldn't be considered "easy," as it takes a lot of time and effort. You shouldn't need to belittle others' accomplishments to inflate your ego.
And honestly, if you think you can achieve GM with an Xbox 360 controller, then why not try it yourself?
On April 16 2013 21:33 Gowerly wrote: Once you get there with an Xbox controller I suggest you try steering wheel controller next. Actually I want to see someone play with a kinect style interface. I wonder if I've still got my LEDs and reflective tape.
I have no idea how you would get the steering wheel to function as a mouse though. If it were possible though I would imagine you could easily drone rush someone and beat a bronze player. Would people pay good money to see that XD?
On April 16 2013 21:30 PiQLiQ wrote: I think i could make it to Grandmasters with just a controller. Getting Grandmasters for me isn't hard at all normally so I think i got a chance with a controller.
Everyone so anxious to proclaim how "easy" the game is for them, but achieving top 200 on any server shouldn't be considered "easy," as it takes a lot of time and effort. You shouldn't need to belittle others' accomplishments to inflate your ego.
And honestly, if you think you can achieve GM with an Xbox 360 controller, then why not try it yourself?
For me it isn't that hard to get very high gm. I know it takes a while and effort of course i never said otherwise. Yeah well if i had a controller to do it with i would def try... why not. But if i get one i will.
When I played WoW I did a similar setup. (Although I used shoulder buttons to modify other buttons, I had a bazillion combinations of buttons available).
On a WoW game, it is damn easy. On SC? Not so much, you need quick and precise touches on the joystick. You need to position your cursor on a very specific point of the screen with accuracy and speed. I don't know how you do that.
Hotkeys are not really a problem, the precision is. How many levels of precision does the 360 analog has, anyway?
On April 17 2013 08:58 Jotoco wrote: When I played WoW I did a similar setup. (Although I used shoulder buttons to modify other buttons, I had a bazillion combinations of buttons available).
On a WoW game, it is damn easy. On SC? Not so much, you need quick and precise touches on the joystick. You need to position your cursor on a very specific point of the screen with accuracy and speed. I don't know how you do that.
Hotkeys are not really a problem, the precision is. How many levels of precision does the 360 analog has, anyway?
When I started playing star craft 2. I was already playing WOW doing end game raids with the game pad. It was not enough to prepare me for playing Star craft 2 though. Precision with the analog stick takes a lot of practice and time getting used to it.
I'm not entirely sure I understand the question being asked though. What do you mean levels of precision?
Good luck Cress! I know you can make it since you are battle tested from plat to diamond and now to masters. Just one more step or two. I myself started low and I guess it is just the amount of time you put in to master a craft.
Don't listen to all the haters they are probably wood league scrubs and got nothing to do.
And to all zerg who hate on protoss and terran, WTF?? Can't handle it? Why the QQ and butthurt?!? fucking switch race if u can't handle it, don't cry for balance you shitards! It is just the game saying you cant handle zerg because you are too retard to make drones instead of units then panic and make wrong units when under attack not having the right units/buildings available to respond. SHUT UP and suck dick!
On April 04 2013 13:52 Demonhunter04 wrote: Did you get the 220 APM number from SC2Gears? What's your EAPM according to SC2Gears? I'm just curious.
My EPM Is something like 150. You might place too much faith on APM though XD. Maybe I'm not the fastest player on the planet, but at the very least it should show people what can be done with lower APM's. That is assuming 200 apm is low.
That's real time APM right? Not Blizzard time APM. 150 EAPM is like Korean pro level.
That is false.
Most koreans have ~200+ eapm. There are a couple that get near 250 such as Yonghwa and DRG, probably lots of others too.
that's pretty fuckin sick, bro! I did something similar with wow and a ps2 controller- could not imagine playin sc2 with an xbox controller =0X I know some of the older osu! pros started playin sc2 with tablets, but that's nothing compared to using a gamepad =0p
Watched a vod and it seems like you're really limited as far as multitasking goes. With toss, you don't really need the multitasking to be aggressive, but you do need it to defend multiple locations. The higher up you get on ladder, the more that terran players are going to be dropping and zerg players are going to be massing mutas and attacking your main while hitting your expos with lings/roaches.
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
Nobody is saying sc2 is harder then bw, but to say the game is easy like your post implies is also just as false. Masters is fine doesn't mean you are good though.
Why you trying to start a sc2 vs bw fight? like really?
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
Nobody is saying sc2 is harder then bw, but to say the game is easy like your post implies is also just as false. Masters is fine doesn't mean you are good though.
Why you trying to start a sc2 vs bw fight? like really?
Im not trying to start a SC2 vs BW fight. Before I even mentioned any game outside of SC2 someone is already claiming SC2 to be superior to FPS games because it, "places a much higher demand on your nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused." I'm sorry but that is laughable and I felt a need to respond. Like I said, some SC2 players feel the need to exaggerate how difficult the game is.
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
Nobody is saying sc2 is harder then bw, but to say the game is easy like your post implies is also just as false. Masters is fine doesn't mean you are good though.
Why you trying to start a sc2 vs bw fight? like really?
Im not trying to start a SC2 vs BW fight. Before I even mentioned any game outside of SC2 someone is already claiming SC2 to be superior to FPS games because it, "places a much higher demand on your nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused." I'm sorry but that is laughable and I felt a need to respond. Like I said, some SC2 players feel the need to exaggerate how difficult the game is.
And some feel the need to make SC2 seem ridiculously easy, what's your point? Everyone has their own opinions. If you're going to demand the other person back up his opinion with experimental evidence, you'd better provide your own for your counter opinion.
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
Nobody is saying sc2 is harder then bw, but to say the game is easy like your post implies is also just as false. Masters is fine doesn't mean you are good though.
Why you trying to start a sc2 vs bw fight? like really?
Im not trying to start a SC2 vs BW fight. Before I even mentioned any game outside of SC2 someone is already claiming SC2 to be superior to FPS games because it, "places a much higher demand on your nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused." I'm sorry but that is laughable and I felt a need to respond. Like I said, some SC2 players feel the need to exaggerate how difficult the game is.
And some feel the need to make SC2 seem ridiculously easy, what's your point? Everyone has their own opinions. If you're going to demand the other person back up his opinion with experimental evidence, you'd better provide your own for your counter opinion.
Yea I guess the guy claiming SC2 to be harder than FPS games because it's more taxing on the nervous system isn't direct proof of my statement. Just ignore that because it'd go against your opinion.
In any case, I never even said SC2 was easy. I said SC2 players tend to exaggerate how difficult the game is. Reading comprehension at an all time low.
yes, sc2 is easy. but its easy for everyone so it makes no difference on "if its so easy, go be a pro". as for comparison...there is only one other rts title with "starcraft" on it....
I played Counter-Strike 1.6 at a competitive level, and I've played BW as well as SC2. They're all difficult games, which is precisely why they're played competitively. They all have insurmountable skill ceilings. As long as the skill ceiling is high enough to where no one ever reaches it, the degree of "difficulty" is arbitrary. This is getting far off topic.
Really goes into depth about the skill requirements of SC2 ... I could just imagine this happening in BW... Don't get me wrong, I like to play SC2 but its lost a lot of depth T.T but maybe it'll gain it again, I mean 2005 BW was pretty silly looking compared to 2007-9 which imo was the prime of BW.
Props though, don't listen to people saying you can't do something; Arnold Schwarzenegger once said that he loved when people told him no one has ever done it before or he couldn't do it, that means you'll not only be the first but you'll prove everyone wrong. Good luck.
On April 18 2013 04:41 o29 wrote: I played Counter-Strike 1.6 at a competitive level, and I've played BW as well as SC2. They're all difficult games, which is precisely why they're played competitively. They all have insurmountable skill ceilings. As long as the skill ceiling is high enough to where no one ever reaches it, the degree of "difficulty" is arbitrary. This is getting far off topic.
Well, the skill level/skill cap ratio certainly affects how often lesser skilled player beats higher skilled(along with possible randomish effects on games) so even if no one ever fully reaches skill cap (doing 100% optimal thing 100% of the time), reaching high enough portion of it makes so that lesser players will be able to win higher percentage of games, so arguments like "it's easy for everyone" or "no one can ever reach the skillcap" aren't completely valid.
On April 18 2013 12:28 jadelantern wrote: ive been following his Stream for a few days now and it is really REALLY impressive what he has done with a controller!
Honored you made a TL account just to comment on this thread XD. Welcome to TL.
On April 18 2013 04:41 o29 wrote: I played Counter-Strike 1.6 at a competitive level, and I've played BW as well as SC2. They're all difficult games, which is precisely why they're played competitively. They all have insurmountable skill ceilings. As long as the skill ceiling is high enough to where no one ever reaches it, the degree of "difficulty" is arbitrary. This is getting far off topic.
Well, the skill level/skill cap ratio certainly affects how often lesser skilled player beats higher skilled(along with possible randomish effects on games) so even if no one ever fully reaches skill cap (doing 100% optimal thing 100% of the time), reaching high enough portion of it makes so that lesser players will be able to win higher percentage of games, so arguments like "it's easy for everyone" or "no one can ever reach the skillcap" aren't completely valid.
As evidenced by how frequently foreigners are taking games off of Koreans? The skill gap at the moment is wide enough to allow the best players to consistently win. We've come a long way since the volatility of early WOL and the game will become more stable as it further evolves.
Cress, I'd be really interested in knowing if you have broken any buttons or sticks on the Xbox 360 gamepad. If so, how long did you use the specific buttons or sticks before they were broken or became unusable.
On April 19 2013 12:02 Starp wrote: Cress, I'd be really interested in knowing if you have broken any buttons or sticks on the Xbox 360 gamepad. If so, how long did you use the specific buttons or sticks before they were broken or became unusable.
Analog sticks are the quickest thing to become unusable. They get little dead zone spots. Which means while the analog stick is turning there are certain spots in the sticks rotation that the mouse will freeze and get stuck for a second. This hurts micro and I usually retire the stick pretty quickly once one appears.
The buttons and directional pad are stressed a lot more then usually too. In a few cases the buttons and become sticky as well. I think I've torn up maybe 7 or so game pads(xbox360 controllers) over 3 years. Although the current one I have seems to be lasting me an odd amount of time.
I'd order say a madcatz xbox360 game pad or something but I hear they don't have the same start up movement and sensitivity like the stock ones do. So I've stayed away from them for now. If anyone knows of a reliable Non-Stock controller lemme know. <3
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
On April 17 2013 19:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: Pretty embarassing for SC2 more than anything else. Try getting B+ in BroodWar and I'll be impressed...
lol how ignorant can one be
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
Nobody is saying sc2 is harder then bw, but to say the game is easy like your post implies is also just as false. Masters is fine doesn't mean you are good though.
Why you trying to start a sc2 vs bw fight? like really?
Im not trying to start a SC2 vs BW fight. Before I even mentioned any game outside of SC2 someone is already claiming SC2 to be superior to FPS games because it, "places a much higher demand on your nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused." I'm sorry but that is laughable and I felt a need to respond. Like I said, some SC2 players feel the need to exaggerate how difficult the game is.
And some feel the need to make SC2 seem ridiculously easy, what's your point? Everyone has their own opinions. If you're going to demand the other person back up his opinion with experimental evidence, you'd better provide your own for your counter opinion.
Yea I guess the guy claiming SC2 to be harder than FPS games because it's more taxing on the nervous system isn't direct proof of my statement. Just ignore that because it'd go against your opinion.
In any case, I never even said SC2 was easy. I said SC2 players tend to exaggerate how difficult the game is. Reading comprehension at an all time low.
is there even a competitive shooter that is still played?
people dont really play CS anymore (too old) CS:GO isn't terribly popular (dont know the competitive merits) call of duty: lol what else is there again?
face it competitive shooters died with deathmatch fps games and counter strike 1.6.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
how can that be. the barrier to entry to GM seems to me like it is the amount of time played.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
Precision? I think it's a lot easier with the mouse.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
I have two hots accounts at the moment both at about 1000 points with 200-300ish bonus pool XD. They both are 15-20 wins above losses so something like 58-59% winrate. Slowed down on playing some need to adjust my life a little better to play more. Can't even burn my pool at the moment really.
I'll get to everyones questions eventually so lemme know <3
Edit: By the way. Will be doing a 3v3 and 4v4 marathon later today inviting people from my chat to play games. If you'd like to get to play some games with me join Channel Cress. Will be online by 2-3 pm PST hopefully.
On April 20 2013 22:14 dreamseller wrote: this reminds me of the guy playing without arms and legs
You can't really compare someone with wrist problems to someone with no arms or legs . I suppose you could say one is a lesser example and one is an extreme example of players adapting to play a game they love.
I've seen looknohands on a few streams and seen him play a few times. He seems like a really nice guy who's really done a lot to further the Esports scene and deserves some mad respect for being someone who puts himself out there for the community. I think that's one thing we don't do enough recognize these people. I'm sure hes inspired a lot of people. Not sure what hes been up too as of late but I hope he keeps doing what he loves and has the ability to travel to tournaments.
<3 Matthew Fink (looknohands)
For those of you curious there's a nice you tube video of him getting interviewed and playing. + Show Spoiler +
On March 27 2013 23:48 lorestarcraft wrote: Does anyone not consider that the controller probably has some distinct advantages, such as mouse precision and easy hotkeys?
Precision? I think it's a lot easier with the mouse.
The mouse is even inferior in some instances. "Cress what are you talking about theres no input with greater precision then the mouse "
I'd like you all to try something for me Go into MS paint and try drawing a picture with the mouse. Then compare it to someone using a digital drawing pencil. The USB Pen will have far greater precision then the mouse will ever get.
Now think about this what if a player practice for 3 years with a USB Pen using the Directional keys on the keyboard and the Pen to draw box's and micro. I know the Star Craft 2 Mouse will not handle the USB Pen disappearing and reappearing again but what if it could?
If blizzard patched Star craft 2 to make full use of a USB pen. In theory with enough practice that person could greatly exceed a mouse user in precision and speed. Its impossible to know for sure because no one has attempted it. However its an interesting Idea.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
I agree with what Alryk said to an extent. The 200 GM limitation is arbitrary.. Once the league is full there are many equally skilled or better players that are left out and simply have the equivalent of GM MMR in high points. Top 8 doesn't mean anything because there are divisions with low points, but there are definitely plenty of top masters with high points and GM mmr who are on par with GM players and beat them regularly, at least 100 per server imo.
a lot of negativity in this thread. I believe you can do it. youll get it down to such a fine art. This kind of thing was said about wheels for racing games. When i raced forza for a clan we experimented with the wheel and we all came to conclude that the wheel ws just tooo unforgiving and the force feedback, even on the japanese imported models wasnt good enough (back in 2003) so we skipped it. our team went to xleague and played on a televised show for forza2 and the winners . . were all using wheels! they explained to us after the show and it simply came down to practice and they had a training regime 10x what ours was(not the mention it was their core belief that you should be playing racers with controls and in 1st person view ^^). You may start a trend here, not to mention the aspect of making this game accessible to more people who simply cant use the keys and mouse.
would love to see you playing ling baneling micro/marine split with stuttersteping with a controller, that would be epic to watch. any idea what stage you get to in marine split challenge?
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
Cress, if you want to look into extenders you can try these: http://www.kontrolfreek.com/FPS/KontrolFreek-FPS-Freek.asp. I used to use them back when I played XBox games more competitively. Not sure if they work or not, but I'm not really the most in tune person to that sort of thing anyway
Your precision with that pad is...incredible, actually, I'm a bit shocked. I don't think I could do any manner of the stuff you manage to with that game pad. Might be able to beat some lower league players, but...hmm.
On April 20 2013 22:38 taldarimAltar wrote: i doubt there's limit to skill, it'll just take a lot more work
I feel the same way. When Mr.Bitters asked looknohands if he was skill capped, he reply'd not even close. I think more time and effort will always show results. Regardless of the input being used.
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
I cut up one of the breakaway cables and soldered a normal USB cable into it. It's relatively straight forward, but you can also buy them ready made, which is probably a better use of ones time. Getting the drivers to work on W7 was the bigger issue.
The FPSFreek clipon that Rohan linked is what i had in mind, altough i'd be very wary of how well it mounts. You'd probably have to glue it on (with a solid glue like cyanoacrylate) to avoid a bending feeling in the stick.
Analog stick caps can be changed easily and costs 1usd a piece, so wreck away.
On April 04 2013 13:52 Demonhunter04 wrote: Did you get the 220 APM number from SC2Gears? What's your EAPM according to SC2Gears? I'm just curious.
My EPM Is something like 150. You might place too much faith on APM though XD. Maybe I'm not the fastest player on the planet, but at the very least it should show people what can be done with lower APM's. That is assuming 200 apm is low.
No, quite the opposite. When I asked the question, I was thinking of other players I know of with around 200-220 APM, like Marineking and Polt. Their EAPM is 170-180. I've watched your stream before, and while you are fairly quick in terms of button presses, you seem to get a lot less done per action than someone using a keyboard and mouse. I don't think controller APM is interchangeable with kb/mouse APM.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
On April 20 2013 22:38 taldarimAltar wrote: i doubt there's limit to skill, it'll just take a lot more work
I feel the same way. When Mr.Bitters asked looknohands if he was skill capped, he reply'd not even close. I think more time and effort will always show results. Regardless of the input being used.
I don't know about that...I mean you're kind of suggesting the body can do superhuman feats if his muscles can act with the same precision and dexterity as his fingers can. They were never designed for such fine control, you're kind of limited by your body and evolution in terms of what you can do. Maybe when some electromechanical device comes out that replaces the hand.
Also just because he says he doesn't feel he's close to the skill cap doesn't mean he feels there is no skill cap - I think the time and effort would become exponentially high for him to see any return in results, to the point where there practically is a skill cap. Just thinking about it logically, when he states he's "not even close" to a skill cap that kind of implies he acknowledges that there is a skill cap, but he's not close to reaching it.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
Hmm, not sure if this is thaaat interesting tbh.
Thanks for posting. I respect your opinion. However This is something I'm doing to just share with the community I play on the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not XD. Every time I log into star craft 2 there's always people messaging me encouraging things.
So yeah. Even though there's always gonna be haters theres still enough support for me to keep streaming for you guys.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
Hmm, not sure if this is thaaat interesting tbh.
Thanks for posting. I respect your opinion. However This is something I'm doing to just share with the community I play on the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not XD. Every time I log into star craft 2 there's always people messaging me encouraging things.
So yeah. Even though there's always gonna be haters theres still enough support for me to keep streaming for you guys.
Anyway. I <3 you guys.
I think he was saying he wasn't sure if the way that guy rated top masters was thaaat interesting. :D
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
I cut up one of the breakaway cables and soldered a normal USB cable into it. It's relatively straight forward, but you can also buy them ready made, which is probably a better use of ones time. Getting the drivers to work on W7 was the bigger issue.
The FPSFreek clipon that Rohan linked is what i had in mind, altough i'd be very wary of how well it mounts. You'd probably have to glue it on (with a solid glue like cyanoacrylate) to avoid a bending feeling in the stick.
Analog stick caps can be changed easily and costs 1usd a piece, so wreck away.
I'm not competent with soldering though XD. I guess I'm stuck just straight up buying a new game pad every time one of the analogs loses accuracy
@ Cress, yeah if you play on the NA server, no doubt you can achieve master level.
Regarding your ranking (top, mid, low master) it would mean something like respe. mid master eu, low master eu, top diam eu. Wich is still really impressive.
I don't think you can do it to GM though, since the gap between masters (top) and GM is really wide. I think it's not about APM, it's simply about the fact that classical control is optimized for STR. And GM is all about optimizing.
100% sure that you will reach GM, Cress. It all comes down to practice, and you are doing it well. For many people this may seem impossible, but I seen a lot of amazing stuff done and I know that everything can be done if you really want. I can't wait for the first GM who plays on xbox! :D Looking forward to your future results.
On April 20 2013 22:38 taldarimAltar wrote: i doubt there's limit to skill, it'll just take a lot more work
I feel the same way. When Mr.Bitters asked looknohands if he was skill capped, he reply'd not even close. I think more time and effort will always show results. Regardless of the input being used.
I don't know about that...I mean you're kind of suggesting the body can do superhuman feats if his muscles can act with the same precision and dexterity as his fingers can. They were never designed for such fine control, you're kind of limited by your body and evolution in terms of what you can do. Maybe when some electromechanical device comes out that replaces the hand.
Also just because he says he doesn't feel he's close to the skill cap doesn't mean he feels there is no skill cap - I think the time and effort would become exponentially high for him to see any return in results, to the point where there practically is a skill cap. Just thinking about it logically, when he states he's "not even close" to a skill cap that kind of implies he acknowledges that there is a skill cap, but he's not close to reaching it.
This is not entirely accurate.
Research suggests that parts of the brain can be "remapped" to compensate for a loss of functionality in another area. For example, parts of the brain of a paraplegic that are normally dedicated to fine motor control in the fingers atrophy and the resulting empty cortical area can be "repurposed", i.e. the neurons for fine motor control in the toes eventually expand to the cortical area where fine finger control was previously. The compensation may not be 1:1, but research indicates that there is some cortical remapping taking place.
When i first read that Thread, i had to try that out. I play a lot of PC games with my Controller but i never thought of playing SC2 with it :D I played a couple of LoL games with it, it was fun too, played on 1200 elo with gamepad :D But then i played SC2:
And all i have to say is: OMG, that works so great. I play in low masters in my normal way. I started to use it vs. bronze players and i lost the first couple of games, but then i came into it and i even won 1 game vs. 280point bronze player. And hey, if you guys think bronze players are bad and they are easy to beat, only because your higher, try it out with a Gamepad and then tell me how good you guys are :D
I will try that one out more!
And you will make your way into GM, it is possible but so damm hard 4 ya, Wish you all the best!
On April 24 2013 20:28 Glorfindel21 wrote: @ Cress, yeah if you play on the NA server, no doubt you can achieve master level.
Regarding your ranking (top, mid, low master) it would mean something like respe. mid master eu, low master eu, top diam eu. Wich is still really impressive.
I don't think you can do it to GM though, since the gap between masters (top) and GM is really wide. I think it's not about APM, it's simply about the fact that classical control is optimized for STR. And GM is all about optimizing.
Even if you don't believe I will achieve the goal theres other lessions to take away here. Like the amount of time effort and thought you put into the game is enough to overcome any disadvantage including so called imbalance in the game itself.
Its sad to say but I don't have my life setup where I can play a lot of time. Maybe reaching GM is something thats not possible to reach unless I was playing for 10 hours each day and was partnered with twitch or something.
Regardless I'm always making progress and I have no doubt I will be a solid GM player one day.
People act like there's not huge drawbacks to using the mouse and why would a person not use one? Scarlett for example is having trouble with wrist problems and shes not the only one. ( I hope she heals quickly and is able to play again soon <3 )
If I had to play with a mouse and keyboard. I would probably not be playing star carft 2. My wrist's can't take the strain. So you see I'm a little forced to play with the game pad XD and when people are forced into something they generally tend to do the imposable more often then not.
I play Star craft 2 the Cress way. I am unique. I Cress <3 Gangnam style level approaching over 9000.
On April 24 2013 21:13 raQn wrote: 100% sure that you will reach GM, Cress. It all comes down to practice, and you are doing it well. For many people this may seem impossible, but I seen a lot of amazing stuff done and I know that everything can be done if you really want. I can't wait for the first GM who plays on xbox! :D Looking forward to your future results.
On April 21 2013 22:19 ETisME wrote: would love to see you playing ling baneling micro/marine split with stuttersteping with a controller, that would be epic to watch. any idea what stage you get to in marine split challenge?
Yeah its been asked for a few times. I'll probably play it for an hour or two one sometime in the future. I remember getting level 25 or so back in the day. Its been awhile. Maybe its time to update it and figure out where I'm at.
Its possible to reach high level on pc with xbox 360 Pad My nick is GenN1us, i represent console pad players on pc. I posted cupple of videos on youtube of myself playing on quake live vs high level mouse players.Recently i was the first player to enter a 100% PC lan with pad.I played shootmania during 2 days vs the best mouse players in the word and played on big stage.Also recently i manage high record on "Osu" the rythm game, used by pro starcraft 2 and League of legends players.Im interested to reach high level on starcraft but also hig acurate macro and acurate execution.Im trying to get pad popular other then call of and halo and open a new world of tournament.Here are so few videos Dont hesitate to give me advice and tell me what you think !
That is pretty awesome. I am no where near your skill level even with a mouse and I tried it with a controller and couldn't get a hang of it for awhile but than I beat a couple people. Very interesting and all the luck with your GM adventure if you get there.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
Hmm, not sure if this is thaaat interesting tbh.
Thanks for posting. I respect your opinion. However This is something I'm doing to just share with the community I play on the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not XD. Every time I log into star craft 2 there's always people messaging me encouraging things.
So yeah. Even though there's always gonna be haters theres still enough support for me to keep streaming for you guys.
oo wait my nick as i said is gen1us and i posted videos here to show the possibilities.Because i want to do as good as possible at starcraft 2.But im not the guy you talk about in the first pages lol.I just wanted to get him more credits I would like to see his video,can someone send me link?Im a bit septical because the best aiming with stick you can get is the one i show you on my videos,with a program i build on my own.Not with xpadder.
donkeyshot: xpadder is great for button congif but not possible for macro aiming mouse
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
I cut up one of the breakaway cables and soldered a normal USB cable into it. It's relatively straight forward, but you can also buy them ready made, which is probably a better use of ones time. Getting the drivers to work on W7 was the bigger issue.
The FPSFreek clipon that Rohan linked is what i had in mind, altough i'd be very wary of how well it mounts. You'd probably have to glue it on (with a solid glue like cyanoacrylate) to avoid a bending feeling in the stick.
Analog stick caps can be changed easily and costs 1usd a piece, so wreck away.
I'm not competent with soldering though XD. I guess I'm stuck just straight up buying a new game pad every time one of the analogs loses accuracy
Perhaps there's someone out there who can repair them cheap
Its possible to reach high level on pc with xbox 360 Pad My nick is GenN1us, i represent console pad players on pc. I posted cupple of videos on youtube of myself playing on quake live vs high level mouse players.Recently i was the first player to enter a 100% PC lan with pad.I played shootmania during 2 days vs the best mouse players in the word and played on big stage.Also recently i manage high record on "Osu" the rythm game, used by pro starcraft 2 and League of legends players.Im interested to reach high level on starcraft but also hig acurate macro and acurate execution.Im trying to get pad popular other then call of and halo and open a new world of tournament.Here are so few videos Dont hesitate to give me advice and tell me what you think !
Hey how's it going sir XD Great job on osu by the way. Maybe you would wanna add me on skype and share some ideas? You say you built your program for mouse accuracy? I'm just a scrub who uses xpadder but it has worked okay for me so far I just do it to avoid the wrist pain and got decent with it in the process .
Skype: Cresss ssss (Seven 's's in total XD no space)
sc2 would actually be way more fun on a touchscreen. i could see a rts game (or sim city like game) being really popular for smartphones or tablets if it were sophisticated enough
Cress: hey man no probleme ill add you.Id love to share some ideas with you Do you use xpadder only the buttons ? or also mouse moves? can you share videos ? im so curious,starcraft 2 is the last game i didnt play with pad.Only tried very quickly macro vs bot. of course its my first starcraft and my first RTS game seriously.Online played command and conquer on playstation lol,so i would have to learn how to play
Marttorn: Im doing this to give blizzard ideas lol Console is very popular and we can open a new wolrd of tournament,gaming and possibilities.Few time ago i said to everyone i can play diablo on pc and people laughed now blizzard is preparing diablo on ps3 but it need to be well adapted,i would love to get contact with them to share some advice
i think its mindblowing that you got to masters using a gamepad. Its not that i dont think that you couldnt get to GM using a gamepad, its just that you have to understand getting to GM using ANYTHING is unbelievably hard and many many many ppl just can never get there no matter what they do or how much they practice. You have to remember that mulitudes of hundreds of thousdans of people play this game and GM is reserved for the top moving average MMR of just 200 people... But anyways I think getting into masters with a gamepad is super epic in itself and congrats!
You know how they have videos showing pro gamers hands to illistrate APM, i would love to see a video of just your hands in a game to see what it looks like, that would be very interesting. Also, what does the game score you for APM in your games?
On April 26 2013 08:23 marttorn wrote: please dont give blizzard any ideas
Actually Blizzard already talk to me about the game pad.
When they announced at Sony they wanted to break into the console market. I thought they might announce Star craft 2 XD. Since it lined up with the same week blizzard was sending me emails.
They ended up announcing Diablo 3 though.
Still was a pretty cool experience that "I thought" I might have started something XD
Well I got to Midmaster as Terran without having any control groups for my military and only using the "select all army" button for managing my troops, so it could very well be possible to get to GM with an x-box controller. Macro and decision making decides games, only pro players need much micro.
On April 17 2013 09:02 PuppyPrime wrote: Protoss... aka the A-Move Race. Not surprising you can play this race with a Gamepad.
User was banned for this post.
I can play Zerg at a masters level Might actually race switch if I knew how to play the race properly and was not awful XD. Each race has its own difficulty and ways of handling its units
On April 27 2013 04:37 Empedocles wrote: i think its mindblowing that you got to masters using a gamepad. Its not that i dont think that you couldnt get to GM using a gamepad, its just that you have to understand getting to GM using ANYTHING is unbelievably hard and many many many ppl just can never get there no matter what they do or how much they practice. You have to remember that mulitudes of hundreds of thousdans of people play this game and GM is reserved for the top moving average MMR of just 200 people... But anyways I think getting into masters with a gamepad is super epic in itself and congrats!
You know how they have videos showing pro gamers hands to illistrate APM, i would love to see a video of just your hands in a game to see what it looks like, that would be very interesting. Also, what does the game score you for APM in your games?
Yeah I gotta buy some more web cams and position them on the walls or something to see me sitting there chilling XD. I'm a bit poor at the moment. I know this would increase the enjoyability of my stream.
My APM
Protoss 190-220
Zerg 270-300
This brings me to another point, Why is zerg apm so much higher? XD. I have not played terran for 100's of games to really say what my average apm is with it XD
Your right it is difficult to be a GM player. That's more or less not really the point of the thread though. Its more stating my commitment to improvement. Even if I reached GM people will always set higher more impossible goals.
P.S (I should get GM in wings and post screen shot ~.^ Ez)
On April 27 2013 04:37 Empedocles wrote: i think its mindblowing that you got to masters using a gamepad. Its not that i dont think that you couldnt get to GM using a gamepad, its just that you have to understand getting to GM using ANYTHING is unbelievably hard and many many many ppl just can never get there no matter what they do or how much they practice. You have to remember that mulitudes of hundreds of thousdans of people play this game and GM is reserved for the top moving average MMR of just 200 people... But anyways I think getting into masters with a gamepad is super epic in itself and congrats!
You know how they have videos showing pro gamers hands to illistrate APM, i would love to see a video of just your hands in a game to see what it looks like, that would be very interesting. Also, what does the game score you for APM in your games?
Yeah I gotta buy some more web cams and position them on the walls or something to see me sitting there chilling XD. I'm a bit poor at the moment. I know this would increase the enjoyability of my stream.
My APM
Protoss 190-220
Zerg 270-300
This brings me to another point, Why is zerg apm so much higher? XD. I have not played terran for 100's of games to really say what my average apm is with it XD
Your right it is difficult to be a GM player. That's more or less not really the point of the thread though. Its more stating my commitment to improvement. Even if I reached GM people will always set higher more impossible goals.
P.S (I should get GM in wings and post screen shot ~.^ Ez)
I dragged My computer over to my bed and tried to position the webcame accordingly XD bought a 720p webcam too. I hope this is more enjoyable to watch <3
On April 27 2013 04:37 Empedocles wrote: i think its mindblowing that you got to masters using a gamepad. Its not that i dont think that you couldnt get to GM using a gamepad, its just that you have to understand getting to GM using ANYTHING is unbelievably hard and many many many ppl just can never get there no matter what they do or how much they practice. You have to remember that mulitudes of hundreds of thousdans of people play this game and GM is reserved for the top moving average MMR of just 200 people... But anyways I think getting into masters with a gamepad is super epic in itself and congrats!
You know how they have videos showing pro gamers hands to illistrate APM, i would love to see a video of just your hands in a game to see what it looks like, that would be very interesting. Also, what does the game score you for APM in your games?
Yeah I gotta buy some more web cams and position them on the walls or something to see me sitting there chilling XD. I'm a bit poor at the moment. I know this would increase the enjoyability of my stream.
My APM
Protoss 190-220
Zerg 270-300
This brings me to another point, Why is zerg apm so much higher? XD. I have not played terran for 100's of games to really say what my average apm is with it XD
Your right it is difficult to be a GM player. That's more or less not really the point of the thread though. Its more stating my commitment to improvement. Even if I reached GM people will always set higher more impossible goals.
P.S (I should get GM in wings and post screen shot ~.^ Ez)
because when you click in the same spot multiple times or spam the same key (aka make drones), you tend to have higher apm with z. Its the same reason why P players usually have low apm and terran players are usually near the mid to higher end (but still lower than z). APM doesn't really matter much, its all about how you use it.
I tried doing this with the same setup you have, the best I could do was Easy AI. (psst, now I know the real meaning of GSL, it's Gamepad Starcraft 2 League O: )
On April 30 2013 22:26 DinosaurPoop wrote: I tried doing this with the same setup you have, the best I could do was Easy AI. (psst, now I know the real meaning of GSL, it's Gamepad Starcraft 2 League O: )
Its all about the pratice and time you put into it <3
On April 27 2013 04:37 Empedocles wrote: i think its mindblowing that you got to masters using a gamepad. Its not that i dont think that you couldnt get to GM using a gamepad, its just that you have to understand getting to GM using ANYTHING is unbelievably hard and many many many ppl just can never get there no matter what they do or how much they practice. You have to remember that mulitudes of hundreds of thousdans of people play this game and GM is reserved for the top moving average MMR of just 200 people... But anyways I think getting into masters with a gamepad is super epic in itself and congrats!
You know how they have videos showing pro gamers hands to illistrate APM, i would love to see a video of just your hands in a game to see what it looks like, that would be very interesting. Also, what does the game score you for APM in your games?
Yeah I gotta buy some more web cams and position them on the walls or something to see me sitting there chilling XD. I'm a bit poor at the moment. I know this would increase the enjoyability of my stream.
My APM
Protoss 190-220
Zerg 270-300
This brings me to another point, Why is zerg apm so much higher? XD. I have not played terran for 100's of games to really say what my average apm is with it XD
Your right it is difficult to be a GM player. That's more or less not really the point of the thread though. Its more stating my commitment to improvement. Even if I reached GM people will always set higher more impossible goals.
P.S (I should get GM in wings and post screen shot ~.^ Ez)
The way that zerg macro works tends to cause zerg APM to spike... I'm high masters protoss, and low masters (maybe, might be diamond now haha, I don't know builds anymore) as zerg, but my zerg APM tends to be a little bit higher.
im a gm hots toss with 330 toss apm and when i offrace on my mid masters account with zerg i tend to spike up to 470 apm.dunno why is that.blizzard should fix this.
also : i think what this guy has done so far with an xbox controller to be mindblowing. i saw his play and i think it is very impressive but imho reaching gm would be near to impossible.Still wish you the best of luck and continue to be as cool as you are!
On April 27 2013 04:37 Empedocles wrote: i think its mindblowing that you got to masters using a gamepad. Its not that i dont think that you couldnt get to GM using a gamepad, its just that you have to understand getting to GM using ANYTHING is unbelievably hard and many many many ppl just can never get there no matter what they do or how much they practice. You have to remember that mulitudes of hundreds of thousdans of people play this game and GM is reserved for the top moving average MMR of just 200 people... But anyways I think getting into masters with a gamepad is super epic in itself and congrats!
You know how they have videos showing pro gamers hands to illistrate APM, i would love to see a video of just your hands in a game to see what it looks like, that would be very interesting. Also, what does the game score you for APM in your games?
Yeah I gotta buy some more web cams and position them on the walls or something to see me sitting there chilling XD. I'm a bit poor at the moment. I know this would increase the enjoyability of my stream.
My APM
Protoss 190-220
Zerg 270-300
This brings me to another point, Why is zerg apm so much higher? XD. I have not played terran for 100's of games to really say what my average apm is with it XD
Your right it is difficult to be a GM player. That's more or less not really the point of the thread though. Its more stating my commitment to improvement. Even if I reached GM people will always set higher more impossible goals.
P.S (I should get GM in wings and post screen shot ~.^ Ez)
The way that zerg macro works tends to cause zerg APM to spike... I'm high masters protoss, and low masters (maybe, might be diamond now haha, I don't know builds anymore) as zerg, but my zerg APM tends to be a little bit higher.
zerg needs to inject and spread creep, each of those things count as an action as well as, say, location hotkeys, so just the overall you just wanna be "doing more stuff" as zerg.
congrats on doing so well and having fun with it! good luck on getting to GM
I'm currenty trying to think of a better control setup. I plan to use glovePIE as it's infinitely more configurable than xpadder. I'm considering using a binary selector system with two selector buttons, quadrupling the available hotkeys, which is infact enough for full grid + hotkeys + a few camera hotkeys. I just don't know which two buttons to use, it is inconvenient pushing both control sticks, and the bumpers are important for quick actions. Using one of the four buttons cuts into the available keys and is not practical to do. I also thought of adding double taps as extra buttons, I still don?t knoe how effective that would be in practice.
Here is another video of hardcore gamepad aiming on PC. I Recorded myself for a Live Video,so everyone can see its not fake. Again im using my program,you will see, nothing compare to it,extreme macro and fast reaction aiming is possible with it. Xpadder is good for buttons but not for aiming.If you want you can try osu or FPS with xpadder vs mouse player,you will be very limited. My program is for sale very soon and i hope people interested of playing with gamepad on pc will use it! Specially cress! very nice guy i met on skype wich i will support very soon by playing hardcore starcraft 2 with gamepad around the world. And hope he will continue. Anyway,enjoy the vid and tell me what you think !
ps: blueslobster i tried Reflex TE on missionred.com with pad and di high score
On May 01 2013 15:37 bGr.MetHiX wrote: im a gm hots toss with 330 toss apm and when i offrace on my mid masters account with zerg i tend to spike up to 470 apm.dunno why is that.blizzard should fix this.
also : i think what this guy has done so far with an xbox controller to be mindblowing. i saw his play and i think it is very impressive but imho reaching gm would be near to impossible.Still wish you the best of luck and continue to be as cool as you are!
You would probably say reaching Masters is mind-blowing and impossible too ~.^. In all seriousness theres a huge mountain to climb for sure
On May 01 2013 20:34 DinosaurPoop wrote: I'm currenty trying to think of a better control setup. I plan to use glovePIE as it's infinitely more configurable than xpadder. I'm considering using a binary selector system with two selector buttons, quadrupling the available hotkeys, which is infact enough for full grid + hotkeys + a few camera hotkeys. I just don't know which two buttons to use, it is inconvenient pushing both control sticks, and the bumpers are important for quick actions. Using one of the four buttons cuts into the available keys and is not practical to do. I also thought of adding double taps as extra buttons, I still don?t knoe how effective that would be in practice.
The way I map my hotkeys is not very efficient but its what I've gotten used too. I would probably go with what your comfortable with and what seems practical for you personally.
Honestly if your used to the mouse and keyboard I would stick with it. Theres people who have messaged me asking for my help with setting up the game pad as they have extremely bad wrist problems. Those are the people that maybe should give the game pad a try. Its all what your comfortable with I suppose.
On May 03 2013 06:48 GenN1us wrote: Hello everyone !!
Here is another video of hardcore gamepad aiming on PC. I Recorded myself for a Live Video,so everyone can see its not fake. Again im using my program,you will see, nothing compare to it,extreme macro and fast reaction aiming is possible with it. Xpadder is good for buttons but not for aiming.If you want you can try osu or FPS with xpadder vs mouse player,you will be very limited. My program is for sale very soon and i hope people interested of playing with gamepad on pc will use it! Specially cress! very nice guy i met on skype wich i will support very soon by playing hardcore starcraft 2 with gamepad around the world. And hope he will continue. Anyway,enjoy the vid and tell me what you think !
ps: blueslobster i tried Reflex TE on missionred.com with pad and di high score
My mouse emulation speed is set to 67. I hope this helps.
Let me know if this answered your question
Speed is so slow. I may be used to using the mouse
I think I should need to practise a lot.
Thank you for your answer
Yeah you should be using the Arrow keys by moving the screen. To sorta off set the slow mouse. If you can control the faster mouse by all means go for it. <3
dinosaur: well its possible when you click on the left trigger but yes it is very hard. Specially a song nico nouga,the macdonald song lol,insane at the begining
Flicer: Yea i will try to do good score funny,invisible aiming lol,lucky the targets are big enough
Thx for suporting for SC2.
For the moment i need to learn the game and all the credits still goes to cress for the moment.I played everything with pad and was looking forward to start SC 2. He is doing great ! i hope i will do at least as good as he did And i hope he will get much better with my program But i know the possibilities are huge. Why not beat some koreans hehe
On March 28 2013 09:25 JKM wrote: Well that is really impressive, but I'll join the nay-sayers about reaching GM (note: cheesing to GM doesn't count, since being awesome with the controller wont really affect that too much ).
BUT GL in your efforts towards GM!
Nah we're talking about super solid GM level here no cannon rushs or six pool's XD. Maybe a 10pool or a 4 gate in mirror match ups once in awhile but that's all I really do that could be cheesey
On March 29 2013 20:29 kafkaesque wrote: You guys suck sometimes.
Here we have this guy who is extremely successful in a very unconventional way of playing and half of you are being Debbie Downers about it.
Some blame Protons being too easy, others blaming SC2 to be too easy, some say all his opponents suck or that it's impossible for him to reach GM...
How about just recognising that he's done something really impressive and rooting for him to reach his goals?
Agreed. But at least Cress has the right attitude of using their pessimism as motivation.
I think it's definitely possible, and it's just a matter of how much time and effort he's willing to put into it. And it will take a loooot of time and effort, rest assured, but it's an obtainable goal.
Well in a way this is a goal I've been working towards since star craft 2 was released. I've seen massive spikes in my skill over time and I've stopped ruleing myself out. I play star craft 2 with the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not. It's just something that I'm sharing with you guys.
The kind comments some of you have left for me really means a lot. Makes me wanna keep streaming.
There's always gonna be a few people that are gonna hate I suppose
I got top 8 masters, I'm sure they were all like easy masters players though. Like bronze players that made it into masters or something. Low points etc.
Anyway its less about ranking more just about improving. Everyday I come closer to reaching god mode with the game pad XD
Nappa: Vegeta.... What does the scouter say about Cress's Gangnam style power level?!
Vegeta: Its over 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah you knew that was coming =D
lol I was browsing this thread waiting to see who would be the first person to post that .gif.
SC2 players tend to grossly exaggerate how difficult the game is.
in comparison to what? your post is bad and you should feel bad.
considering the fact that there are full time gamers who are no where nere a skill cap Id say sc2 is a pretty hard game to master.
Especially compared to an FPS or something that takes very little time to get to a high skill level.
SCII places a much higher demand your on nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused.
Well this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. SC2 players talking about the nervous system and focus as if it's been experimentally proven. I see people like you all the time, desperately trying to place SC2 on a pedestal above all over video games. Wake up bros, SC2 =/= Broodwar. The fact that D rank ICCUP players are solid Masters SC2 players with almost no acclimation should tell you something about the difficulty of SC2. Keep calling my post bad though NEEDZMOAR, you had a pretty bad post yourself.
Nobody is saying sc2 is harder then bw, but to say the game is easy like your post implies is also just as false. Masters is fine doesn't mean you are good though.
Why you trying to start a sc2 vs bw fight? like really?
Im not trying to start a SC2 vs BW fight. Before I even mentioned any game outside of SC2 someone is already claiming SC2 to be superior to FPS games because it, "places a much higher demand on your nervous system and requires you to be almost constantly focused." I'm sorry but that is laughable and I felt a need to respond. Like I said, some SC2 players feel the need to exaggerate how difficult the game is.
And some feel the need to make SC2 seem ridiculously easy, what's your point? Everyone has their own opinions. If you're going to demand the other person back up his opinion with experimental evidence, you'd better provide your own for your counter opinion.
Yea I guess the guy claiming SC2 to be harder than FPS games because it's more taxing on the nervous system isn't direct proof of my statement. Just ignore that because it'd go against your opinion.
In any case, I never even said SC2 was easy. I said SC2 players tend to exaggerate how difficult the game is. Reading comprehension at an all time low.
is there even a competitive shooter that is still played?
people dont really play CS anymore (too old) CS:GO isn't terribly popular (dont know the competitive merits) call of duty: lol what else is there again?
face it competitive shooters died with deathmatch fps games and counter strike 1.6.
Actually I think there's still an audience for fps tournaments. They seem to be broad casted on TV in the US more then Sc2 or lol. Like G4 tv for example shows alot of halo stuff. Hard to argue which has a bigger fan base. Its safe to say theres a lot of Fps fans out there though.
On May 02 2013 21:46 blueslobster wrote: Hi Cress. Which level can you reach on Reflex TE on missionred.com?
Well the whole beat map and reflex games are not really my thing XD as they focus just on the mouse. I still need to do the marine split challenge at some point though
On May 01 2013 20:34 DinosaurPoop wrote: I'm currenty trying to think of a better control setup. I plan to use glovePIE as it's infinitely more configurable than xpadder. I'm considering using a binary selector system with two selector buttons, quadrupling the available hotkeys, which is infact enough for full grid + hotkeys + a few camera hotkeys. I just don't know which two buttons to use, it is inconvenient pushing both control sticks, and the bumpers are important for quick actions. Using one of the four buttons cuts into the available keys and is not practical to do. I also thought of adding double taps as extra buttons, I still don?t knoe how effective that would be in practice.
The way I map my hotkeys is not very efficient but its what I've gotten used too. I would probably go with what your comfortable with and what seems practical for you personally.
Honestly if your used to the mouse and keyboard I would stick with it. Theres people who have messaged me asking for my help with setting up the game pad as they have extremely bad wrist problems. Those are the people that maybe should give the game pad a try. Its all what your comfortable with I suppose.
Cress
now do it again except where the next target is more than 4 inches from the last one
On March 29 2013 20:29 kafkaesque wrote: You guys suck sometimes.
Here we have this guy who is extremely successful in a very unconventional way of playing and half of you are being Debbie Downers about it.
Some blame Protons being too easy, others blaming SC2 to be too easy, some say all his opponents suck or that it's impossible for him to reach GM...
How about just recognising that he's done something really impressive and rooting for him to reach his goals?
Agreed. But at least Cress has the right attitude of using their pessimism as motivation.
I think it's definitely possible, and it's just a matter of how much time and effort he's willing to put into it. And it will take a loooot of time and effort, rest assured, but it's an obtainable goal.
Well in a way this is a goal I've been working towards since star craft 2 was released. I've seen massive spikes in my skill over time and I've stopped ruleing myself out. I play star craft 2 with the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not. It's just something that I'm sharing with you guys.
The kind comments some of you have left for me really means a lot. Makes me wanna keep streaming.
There's always gonna be a few people that are gonna hate I suppose
I got top 8 masters, I'm sure they were all like easy masters players though. Like bronze players that made it into masters or something. Low points etc.
Anyway its less about ranking more just about improving. Everyday I come closer to reaching god mode with the game pad XD
Nappa: Vegeta.... What does the scouter say about Cress's Gangnam style power level?!
Vegeta: Its over 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah you knew that was coming =D
lol I was browsing this thread waiting to see who would be the first person to post that .gif.
Well played sir!
A lot of people have sent it to me actually Its one of the single greatest GIF's for Star Craft 2 XD. I think the game thats being played in the GIF is Idra vs Minigun maybe?
On May 01 2013 20:34 DinosaurPoop wrote: I'm currenty trying to think of a better control setup. I plan to use glovePIE as it's infinitely more configurable than xpadder. I'm considering using a binary selector system with two selector buttons, quadrupling the available hotkeys, which is infact enough for full grid + hotkeys + a few camera hotkeys. I just don't know which two buttons to use, it is inconvenient pushing both control sticks, and the bumpers are important for quick actions. Using one of the four buttons cuts into the available keys and is not practical to do. I also thought of adding double taps as extra buttons, I still don?t knoe how effective that would be in practice.
The way I map my hotkeys is not very efficient but its what I've gotten used too. I would probably go with what your comfortable with and what seems practical for you personally.
Honestly if your used to the mouse and keyboard I would stick with it. Theres people who have messaged me asking for my help with setting up the game pad as they have extremely bad wrist problems. Those are the people that maybe should give the game pad a try. Its all what your comfortable with I suppose.
Cress
now do it again except where the next target is more than 4 inches from the last one
Do what again exactly? You talking about a Beat map? ^_^
On May 06 2013 19:43 iCheeseUcry wrote: Whoa, that is some seriously xbox skills.
Not really, if you try it yourself you'll see that zerg mechanics are relatively easy with it with practice.
If you were to rate star craft's difficulty level and label all the required skills to do it well. Lets say you wanted to label the required the skills to get to a decent level of masters doing basic strategy and you had a huge sample size in theory. How large a percentage of people would be able to pull it off? 50% 60% 80%? I'm sure the numbers would be something closer to 20%-30%? Who knows.
But your heavily discrediting the skills required to play the game. Managing your Stress level and becoming comfortable with the game. Learning repetitive macro and actions. Learning Micro and different strategies and how to make the game fun and interesting for "yourself". These are all things that need to be taken into account.
At its core Star Craft is anything but an easy game. You guys just make it look so damn easy =D
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
lol u are an idiot
Seriously, that's the thought you got when you watched the footage? Are you butthurt because he plays on a higher level than you with a gamepad, or what's the reasoning?
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
lol u are an idiot
Seriously, that's the thought you got when you watched the footage? Are you butthurt because he plays on a higher level than you with a gamepad, or what's the reasoning?
I seriously don't get it.
@ TE: awesome job.
Well I don't think he saw the Vod's considering theres two weeks of Vod's of me playing zerg.
This is rather cool, but why are the thread title hinting that you're already GM level? It made me a bit dissapointed as that would have been truly how put the gamepad out as a strong alternative to mouse/keyboard. Reaching master's as impressive as it is, only puts you into top 6-8% with the current league restrictions imposed by Blizzard -_-.
Anyhooo happy birthday (if you put in correct TL info) and reach that GM to remedy the misleading title .
On May 07 2013 21:10 JKM wrote: This is rather cool, but why are the thread title hinting that you're already GM level? It made me a bit dissapointed as that would have been truly how put the gamepad out as a strong alternative to mouse/keyboard. Reaching master's as impressive as it is, only puts you into top 6-8% with the current league restrictions imposed by Blizzard -_-.
Anyhooo happy birthday (if you put in correct TL info) and reach that GM to remedy the misleading title .
LOL
First of all it's not "only" 6-8 percent. It's impressive as hell.
Second of all even if he reaches grandmaster it doesn't prove anything more than it proves now, namely that Cress is one hell of a player that has incredible skill with a gamepad.
It takes huge amount of skill to micro with a gamepad so for your average player this will never be an option.
And even if it was an option for the masses, someone showing that you can be a top masters player should be enough as PR for the gamepad.
His point is proven long time ago, that it is possible to be a top player with a gamepad.
On May 08 2013 08:25 Wombat_NI wrote: Incidentally can you recall where you got the gif that you used for the intro to your stream? The one with the baneling donut, it's amazing!
People send it to me and tell me to keep going with this . That's why I keep trying despite not having a very large fan base. Anyway I liked the gif so much I added it to my stream permanently actually
On May 06 2013 19:43 iCheeseUcry wrote: Whoa, that is some seriously xbox skills.
Cress also talks a lot about strategy while he streams and the purpose behind his timings. He's very intelligent.
I'm glad you enjoy the stream. I feel its very important for me to explain what timings I'm trying to execute because I do very strange builds. Doing crazy builds makes the game interesting for me ^_^
On May 07 2013 21:12 Type|NarutO wrote: Happy birthday @ OP.
Yeah it is indeed the correct date on my TL account.
kk Cress story time.
I remember one of my first birthdays when I was maybe 5-6 years old XD
They bought me Star craft for the Nes I would come home and play it for hours. That's probably how I got my early talent for RTS with the game pad.
Protoss would usually win
Star Craft was released in this time line right? Was it a different dimension? A Rip in space and time maybe?
As far as consoles go, Starcraft was released on N64 in 2000, which was I think the first Blizzard RTS console game. Before that, the only worthwhile console RTS (in my opinion) was C&C: Red Alert for PS1, released in '97. And Dune II (1993) for Genesis/MegaDrive deserves an honorable mention.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
lol u are an idiot
Seriously, that's the thought you got when you watched the footage? Are you butthurt because he plays on a higher level than you with a gamepad, or what's the reasoning?
I seriously don't get it.
@ TE: awesome job.
How about: you're the idiot. This is a forum, not some quick chat. Writing 'u' instead of 'you', is just laziness and so unnecessary, not to mention the unnecessary insults you throw out.
Chrono000 meant to say that it's only possible to reach GM with protoss, which I can semi agree to. Protoss are the most turtly of all and require the least multitasking/micro while still managing. Sure you can maintain masters level with zerg/terran but I believe that protoss has by far the highest odds of making it into GM, with a controller and thus limited control.
So instead of shortening your words in an already super short post on a forum, and insulting people.. I suggest you try to be more constructive and mature.
On May 07 2013 21:10 JKM wrote: This is rather cool, but why are the thread title hinting that you're already GM level? It made me a bit dissapointed as that would have been truly how put the gamepad out as a strong alternative to mouse/keyboard. Reaching master's as impressive as it is, only puts you into top 6-8% with the current league restrictions imposed by Blizzard -_-.
Anyhooo happy birthday (if you put in correct TL info) and reach that GM to remedy the misleading title .
Please, please pleaaaase.. stop spreading misinformation, really. The top 2% is masters, not the top 6-8%.
There is a huuuuuge influx of new players that currently occupy the lower leagues, this causes the higher leagues to be pushed up and more people to be promoted to masters. Seeing there are a ton of new people playing HotS, the 2% sample size has actually increased an enormous amount in actual size, but it's still 2%.
Sc2ranks is inaccurate before you start throwing around with that, and always has been. Inactive people and a lot of missing information are also added up, sc2ranks even shows >200 people in GM at times.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
lol u are an idiot
Seriously, that's the thought you got when you watched the footage? Are you butthurt because he plays on a higher level than you with a gamepad, or what's the reasoning?
I seriously don't get it.
@ TE: awesome job.
How about: you're the idiot. This is a forum, not some quick chat. Writing 'u' instead of 'you', is just laziness and so unnecessary, not to mention the unnecessary insults you throw out.
Chrono000 meant to say that it's only possible to reach GM with protoss, which I can semi agree to. Protoss are the most turtly of all and require the least multitasking/micro while still managing. Sure you can maintain masters level with zerg/terran but I believe that protoss has by far the highest odds of making it into GM, with a controller and thus limited control.
So instead of shortening your words in an already super short post on a forum, and insulting people.. I suggest you try to be more constructive and mature.
On May 07 2013 21:10 JKM wrote: This is rather cool, but why are the thread title hinting that you're already GM level? It made me a bit dissapointed as that would have been truly how put the gamepad out as a strong alternative to mouse/keyboard. Reaching master's as impressive as it is, only puts you into top 6-8% with the current league restrictions imposed by Blizzard -_-.
Anyhooo happy birthday (if you put in correct TL info) and reach that GM to remedy the misleading title .
Please, please pleaaaase.. stop spreading misinformation, really. The top 2% is masters, not the top 6-8%.
There is a huuuuuge influx of new players that currently occupy the lower leagues, this causes the higher leagues to be pushed up and more people to be promoted to masters. Seeing there are a ton of new people playing HotS, the 2% sample size has actually increased an enormous amount in actual size, but it's still 2%.
Sc2ranks is inaccurate before you start throwing around with that, and always has been. Inactive people and a lot of missing information are also added up, sc2ranks even shows >200 people in GM at times.
with start of hots, last season was 6-8% of all players in master, so yes it SHOULD been 2 but it was more, but alot of them seem went down to dia again no idea now
with start of hots, last season was 6-8% of all players in master, so yes it SHOULD been 2 but it was more, but alot of them seem went down to dia again no idea now
According to what statistics? as I said before, sc2ranks is inaccurate and it would seem masters reached a higher %, because of the higher influx of players. But that has not been the case. If you are going to throw away blizzard released facts, please provide sources and not just a counterword.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
lol u are an idiot
Seriously, that's the thought you got when you watched the footage? Are you butthurt because he plays on a higher level than you with a gamepad, or what's the reasoning?
I seriously don't get it.
@ TE: awesome job.
How about: you're the idiot. This is a forum, not some quick chat. Writing 'u' instead of 'you', is just laziness and so unnecessary, not to mention the unnecessary insults you throw out.
Chrono000 meant to say that it's only possible to reach GM with protoss, which I can semi agree to. Protoss are the most turtly of all and require the least multitasking/micro while still managing. Sure you can maintain masters level with zerg/terran but I believe that protoss has by far the highest odds of making it into GM, with a controller and thus limited control.
So instead of shortening your words in an already super short post on a forum, and insulting people.. I suggest you try to be more constructive and mature.
On May 07 2013 21:10 JKM wrote: This is rather cool, but why are the thread title hinting that you're already GM level? It made me a bit dissapointed as that would have been truly how put the gamepad out as a strong alternative to mouse/keyboard. Reaching master's as impressive as it is, only puts you into top 6-8% with the current league restrictions imposed by Blizzard -_-.
Anyhooo happy birthday (if you put in correct TL info) and reach that GM to remedy the misleading title .
Please, please pleaaaase.. stop spreading misinformation, really. The top 2% is masters, not the top 6-8%.
There is a huuuuuge influx of new players that currently occupy the lower leagues, this causes the higher leagues to be pushed up and more people to be promoted to masters. Seeing there are a ton of new people playing HotS, the 2% sample size has actually increased an enormous amount in actual size, but it's still 2%.
Sc2ranks is inaccurate before you start throwing around with that, and always has been. Inactive people and a lot of missing information are also added up, sc2ranks even shows >200 people in GM at times.
While I don't think he should be insulted for believing "lol only protoss/easy". One main concept I hear is your limited, you can't do it cress, Impossible. Without evening thinking about the possibility for improvement. Improvement in the Method/Programming and practice can change everything. No one knows what the future holds you just might be surprised ^_^
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
lol u are an idiot
Seriously, that's the thought you got when you watched the footage? Are you butthurt because he plays on a higher level than you with a gamepad, or what's the reasoning?
I seriously don't get it.
@ TE: awesome job.
How about: you're the idiot. This is a forum, not some quick chat. Writing 'u' instead of 'you', is just laziness and so unnecessary, not to mention the unnecessary insults you throw out.
Chrono000 meant to say that it's only possible to reach GM with protoss, which I can semi agree to. Protoss are the most turtly of all and require the least multitasking/micro while still managing. Sure you can maintain masters level with zerg/terran but I believe that protoss has by far the highest odds of making it into GM, with a controller and thus limited control.
So instead of shortening your words in an already super short post on a forum, and insulting people.. I suggest you try to be more constructive and mature.
On May 07 2013 21:10 JKM wrote: This is rather cool, but why are the thread title hinting that you're already GM level? It made me a bit dissapointed as that would have been truly how put the gamepad out as a strong alternative to mouse/keyboard. Reaching master's as impressive as it is, only puts you into top 6-8% with the current league restrictions imposed by Blizzard -_-.
Anyhooo happy birthday (if you put in correct TL info) and reach that GM to remedy the misleading title .
Please, please pleaaaase.. stop spreading misinformation, really. The top 2% is masters, not the top 6-8%.
There is a huuuuuge influx of new players that currently occupy the lower leagues, this causes the higher leagues to be pushed up and more people to be promoted to masters. Seeing there are a ton of new people playing HotS, the 2% sample size has actually increased an enormous amount in actual size, but it's still 2%.
Sc2ranks is inaccurate before you start throwing around with that, and always has been. Inactive people and a lot of missing information are also added up, sc2ranks even shows >200 people in GM at times.
Seriously? With posts like these this thread will turn into a balance whine thread. Nios.kr AND SC2ranks both show that Masters league is well over 5% of players, currently. Blizzard has apparently acknowledged this, though I have no source, and with the demeanor of that post I have a strong feeling that you are too arrogant to be reasoned with anyway. You are also insulting someone based upon the grammar they chose (or lack thereof.) I don't really understand why people insist on attacking people because they disagree with a point. If you disagree, disagree, don't attack someone for no reason other than to hurt their feelings. Lastly, I disagree with you, Protoss is probably in my opinion one of the hardest races to play at a GM level, because one small mistake will kill you every time. I also believe that Zerg is the easiest race to play once you reach GM mechanics. A lot of people disagree with me, and that's fine, but you are stating your opinions as fact. Please, just stop.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Don't worry, i think you spoke your points clearly and in a manner that i don't think your trying to put down zerg. I'm only a diamond zerg myself, but i agree with you.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
I think zvt will be really difficult with a controller as you actually need to multitask. In pvt you can preemptively deny drops with cannons + Ht's. That isn'¨t possible in zvt, and as your camera movement is so slow with an controller it will be a much bigger handicap.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
I think zvt will be really difficult with a controller as you actually need to multitask. In pvt you can preemptively deny drops with cannons + Ht's. That isn'¨t possible in zvt, and as your camera movement is so slow with an controller it will be a much bigger handicap.
Actually I do quite well in my masters ZvT's I found you can put an ultra and bane ling at the main and the third and the have a powerful drop defense against high multitasking terrans. Each race has its own difficult and easy styles, one race is not necessarily more difficult then another.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
I think zvt will be really difficult with a controller as you actually need to multitask. In pvt you can preemptively deny drops with cannons + Ht's. That isn'¨t possible in zvt, and as your camera movement is so slow with an controller it will be a much bigger handicap.
Actually double tapping hotkeys works quite well for drop defense EDIT: also you can have edge scroll set to highest value so in worst case scenario you can use it.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
I think zvt will be really difficult with a controller as you actually need to multitask. In pvt you can preemptively deny drops with cannons + Ht's. That isn'¨t possible in zvt, and as your camera movement is so slow with an controller it will be a much bigger handicap.
Actually double tapping hotkeys works quite well for drop defense EDIT: also you can have edge scroll set to highest value so in worst case scenario you can use it.
Hmm.It might be worth it to set the value higher on the scroll value, as its how I get around the map. I currently have it at 20% might wanna play around with increasing it some.
On May 12 2013 03:34 kiranearitachi wrote: Omg this is fun im going to use a controller on the eu server :D the only hard part is remembering what buttons do what
On May 12 2013 03:34 kiranearitachi wrote: Omg this is fun im going to use a controller on the eu server :D the only hard part is remembering what buttons do what
Glad your enjoying the game pad ^_^
i think its easier for someone like me who plays xbox and USED to play rts on xbox before i got a good pc :D
Mucho awesome, I just found this and I'm very impressed I've always looked for something like this I'm surprised it didn't come sooner. Again this is fantastic I'm a casual player who uses both clicking and mouse and looking away from my screen with a controller. Now I can play as casually and comfortably since im not upstraight all the time as I want and i'm familiar with half of this type of stuff already!
On May 13 2013 21:15 mrslunk wrote: Man that gif cracks me up every time i see it!
GL Cress!
That Gif Is me ten years in the future actually ^_^
Actually though the real source of the Gif is from a Music video made in the 90's. Clips of this music video and miniguns game were combined to get what you see in that gif.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
It all depends on how you played each race.
I think Zerg would be the easiest to play an aggressive style with an X Box controller.
I think Protoss would be the easiest to play with a defensive style (mech would be easy too).
Nah you can't put each race into box's like that. All the races and turtle and aggressive styles ^_^
On May 21 2013 07:34 HelloSon wrote: How has the switch to Z been? Last time I tuned in, you were getting killed in unranked matches as Z but it was when you were first starting out.
My zerg is good enough to consistently match and beat masters I guess. I don't play very refined sometimes and I need to manage the pain in my wrists and hands to play well. Its something I struggle with, it can mean the difference between 140 apm and 280 apm. It all just depends how rested my hands are and my stamina.
My zerg is alright its not where I want it to be though. I do enjoy playing zerg more then protoss or terran though. It's new and refreshing. I played terran for a year and a half and protoss for a year and a half. Its the time of zerg now they would say.
I still play protoss but as of late I seem to be just making carriers. I've been winning PvT masters games with carriers and they seem pretty stable in PvZ. I won a masters PvP with carriers but it was hard as hell to win with it.
I play for fun. I do weird builds while playing on the game pad, because its enjoyable for me.
Zergs quite fun but sometimes I lose to silly things and my idra rage in me starts to awaken but I still enjoy it.
Anyway this turned in some kind of weird rant. but w/e
I'm more active on my twitter now if you guys wanna follow me on there and ask me questions : https://twitter.com/Sc2Cress/
Durp EDIT: I still want a marine split challenge video from you.
User was warned for this post
I just played marine challenge for about 15 minutes and got level 15. I remember getting level 20 or higher in the past but that was with me playing for like an hour or longer getting the perfect splits. I could stream a play through maybe later but don't wanna put a lot of time into it. Don't think its something a lot of people are interested in to watch for hours xD
Durp EDIT: I still want a marine split challenge video from you.
User was warned for this post
I just played marine challenge for about 15 minutes and got level 15. I remember getting level 20 or higher in the past but that was with me playing for like an hour or longer getting the perfect splits. I could stream a play through maybe later but don't wanna put a lot of time into it. Don't think its something a lot of people are interested in to watch for hours xD
Hm, must be really limited by the controller. On a good day i can get to level 21 in 20 minutes.
Durp EDIT: I still want a marine split challenge video from you.
User was warned for this post
I just played marine challenge for about 15 minutes and got level 15. I remember getting level 20 or higher in the past but that was with me playing for like an hour or longer getting the perfect splits. I could stream a play through maybe later but don't wanna put a lot of time into it. Don't think its something a lot of people are interested in to watch for hours xD
Hm, must be really limited by the controller. On a good day i can get to level 21 in 20 minutes.
No, My wrist just needs to heal and I only played for a bit. I over stressed my wrist playing these past couple of months, thats why I attempted it, felt the need to play sc2 for a few minutes. My wrist feels a bit crunchy and grindy. Maybe I should get it checked out or wait a few more days dunno.
Durp EDIT: I still want a marine split challenge video from you.
User was warned for this post
I just played marine challenge for about 15 minutes and got level 15. I remember getting level 20 or higher in the past but that was with me playing for like an hour or longer getting the perfect splits. I could stream a play through maybe later but don't wanna put a lot of time into it. Don't think its something a lot of people are interested in to watch for hours xD
Hm, must be really limited by the controller. On a good day i can get to level 21 in 20 minutes.
No, My wrist just needs to heal and I only played for a bit. I over stressed my wrist playing these past couple of months, thats why I attempted it, felt the need to play sc2 for a few minutes. My wrist feels a bit crunchy and grindy. Maybe I should get it checked out or wait a few more days dunno.
That's sad, but I still believe the controller is limiting because (most of) controller apm = button apm, while splitting requires cursor apm, because if the cursor speed is too slow you can't manage to handle splitting 3 mini-groups of at the same time.
On May 06 2013 19:43 iCheeseUcry wrote: Whoa, that is some seriously xbox skills.
Not really, if you try it yourself you'll see that zerg mechanics are relatively easy with it with practice.
Why you always hate on cress dinosaurpoop? XD
Btw: I'm taking a little break to let my wrists heal, I injured them pretty badly
It's okay Cress. Trying to continually ban Akito with no results is tiring work. I could use the break too. Looking forward to you coming back though ^_^
On June 06 2013 04:12 RaptorPete wrote: Serious question. How do you not lose to mass marines or vikings? Do these Master terrans not scout you? It just doesn't add up for me.
I assume your talking about the cress carrier build? In PvT? Its difficult to get the vikings and marines out because you harass them once you have 4 carriers you siege the terrans 3rd/Natural or production, causing damage and problems for the terran. Even if the terran knowns your doing the build its still viable. They have to scan between 8-9 minutes in the right spot to see the carriers, before then, all they knew was that I had a star gate and was making oracles.
On June 07 2013 00:29 Salient wrote: You might be GM already if you stuck to one race instead of race switching 2 times.
This is probably true, I played terran at the beginning of WOL and people told me my race was over powered. So I switched to Protoss and then people told me my race was over powered, When I switched to zerg. My race was still over powered wtf?
Wow, I just discovered this and tried your controller layout. I think you struck gold here.
Blizzard could totally do a console version of the game using your layout. All they have to do is change the UI so that there is a graphical representation of button changes and functions whenever you press the left stick.
By the way, that Blizzard email, how did it go?
Reason I'm asking is that I have a lot of real world friends that are primarily PS3 players and don't play the PC very much. It would be great if they started playing SC2 as well.
On June 07 2013 12:46 Don.681 wrote: Wow, I just discovered this and tried your controller layout. I think you struck gold here.
Blizzard could totally do a console version of the game using your layout. All they have to do is change the UI so that there is a graphical representation of button changes and functions whenever you press the left stick.
By the way, that Blizzard email, how did it go?
Reason I'm asking is that I have a lot of real world friends that are primarily PS3 players and don't play the PC very much. It would be great if they started playing SC2 as well.
Well Blizzard messaged my twitch and reddit account asking for the key bindings on my controller. They gave me an email to contact them with. We exchanged a few general emails about my experiences with using the game pad. I sent them a detailed explanation of my key bindings.
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Did you ever play SCBW? I doubt it.
Cress played SCBW =D.
Why do you talk about yourself at the 3rd person ? I thought it was someone else lol
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Did you ever play SCBW? I doubt it.
Cress played SCBW =D.
Why do you talk about yourself at the 3rd person ? I thought it was someone else lol
He does that a lot. No idea why. A little bit obnoxious to be honest. That a side, I support your journey! It is already quite impressive.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Did you ever play SCBW? I doubt it.
The "a-move race" didn't really exist in BW.
A lot of players considered Protoss the "a-move race", although the term wasn't "a-move race" it was "1a2a3a", because Protoss could literally fit their entire army on 3 hotkeys (this was not possible with either Terran or Zerg) and because of the relative strength of Protoss units. People said "well Protoss can just 1a2a3a to victory". Basically it was a stupid complaint perpetuated by the lower-level D-rank iccup crowd.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Did you ever play SCBW? I doubt it.
Cress played SCBW =D.
Why do you talk about yourself at the 3rd person ? I thought it was someone else lol
He does that a lot. No idea why. A little bit obnoxious to be honest. That a side, I support your journey! It is already quite impressive.
Yeah sorry about that. I was not sure if he was talking about me or some other guy. So I figured I would have both covered If I talked about myself in the first person.
To tell you the truth I've been considering giving up on streaming. I'm not terribly good at it or entertaining. So I dunno, maybe its time I consider slipping back into the shadows.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Did you ever play SCBW? I doubt it.
The "a-move race" didn't really exist in BW.
I think people just really want to feel like their race is the hardest and everyone elses is easy mode at the deepest level.
I really hope you end up having a long term dialogue with blizzard about this - I'd try to reach them to get their feedback. I really think RTS on consoles is something thats been difficult in the past, but sort of needs to happen. RTS is my favorite genre of game and sometimes I really like the idea of playing it on a couch. I think if more people like you can prove these concepts blizzard may not be so quick to write off console RTS. Particularly if they tweak the GUI to make it easier to see the control scheme and utilize next gen features of the new consoles' controllers (especially the ps4), theres a lot of ways it can work. Couple that with all the streaming and social aspects of the next gen consoles (that doesnt even include the rumored steam-box).....RTS (as well as MOBA) esports could very well migrate to consoles. Please do not give up in this area, stream or not. Masters is high enough to convince me. Continue to tweak it and release guides or video.
On September 28 2013 08:10 Cheren wrote: For a while all the top viewed videos on twitch of SC2 would be Cress'... he was probably banned for using a bot to get video views.
The novelty of being an average player using a self-imposed inferior input method must have worn off.
On May 09 2013 18:33 Szei wrote: Good luck Cress! Hope to see you make GM =)
On May 07 2013 08:43 Chrono000 wrote: lol u can only do this with protoss
I really don't understand this sentiment people seem to have regarding Protoss. Maybe in SC1, but in SC2 Protoss is anything but an "A-move" race. Especially in HotS. I feel like Zerg would be much easier to play with a 360 controller. Not because Zerg is an easier race, but because engaging comes down more to a-moving than Protoss and Terran. Zerg is still difficult, don't misunderstand me, but it's more about setting up flanks. Good positioning, that kind of thing. I feel like with a controller, moving your units into position isn't as much of a difficulty leap from mouse and keyboard to a controller than spell casting is (blink, ff, storm, time warp, etc).
Note: I'm not a defensive Protoss/Terran player trying to put down Zerg. I play random at a mid master level so I do have respect for all the races.
Did you ever play SCBW? I doubt it.
I did play BW, and I'm also not sure how that is relevant in the slightest. We are talking about SC2. Not SCBW... that's the whole point -_-
On September 28 2013 08:10 Cheren wrote: For a while all the top viewed videos on twitch of SC2 would be Cress'... he was probably banned for using a bot to get video views.
The novelty of being an average player using a self-imposed inferior input method must have worn off.
Actually, technically he was a great deal above average going by the Blizzard ranking system (as a Master player you're supposedly in the top 2% or so which is well above 50th percentile...). As for his input method, that was a novelty, you're right. It wore off and that's why he didn't have that many viewers consistently. However, the reason people stuck with him was probably for the builds (some would say "troll builds") he did and still beat Master players with them.
EPT
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