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FYI: You can still make hellbats without the upgrade, you just can't transform in and out of them until you get the upgrade. |
On February 23 2013 14:30 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
Are they keeping the cargo change as well? Honestly they should revert the cargo space change and just switch Hellbats back to mechanical. It doesn't make any sense that the unit can be healed by medivacs.. I know they want to buff bio with all the changes in HOTS but having hellbats as biological does not make any sense to me.
Welcome to 4th quarter 2012.
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At some point, if hellbat balancing gets more and more awkward, shouldn't Blizzard just give up and completely separate hellbats and hellions into two separate units? As somebody who is only casually following HotS beta, I don't even know if they have anything in common anymore.
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If you guys want the three biggest balance issues with the game right now across all 3 races, here they are:
1) Tempest too supply efficient/too much HP. Needs to be back to original 6 supply for TvP/ZvP lategame.
2) Hellbat needs to not be able to be healed and be turned back into a mech unit. Affects TvZ in Zergs favor, affects mech TvP in Terrans favor (ever so slightly on both of those).
3) TvP early game is utterly advantage for Protoss currently. The oracle able to burst down workers so quickly, along with force 300 minerals in missile turrets means not only can oracles sometimes get a freewin, but it is completely safe due to 300 minerals in missile turrets = 1 nexus = planetary nexus from mothership core. There are also a myriad of other all-ins, DT, blink stalker, etc. that are made better with the mothership core. Terran only has 1/1/1 (planetary nexus freewins vs this) and 1 rax FE (you can die to any all-in or be put behind for free due to oracles).
That's about it. The rest can be solved by players imo.
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that's a huge nerf, I was expecting it to be a little bit less.
Won't be such a big problem if it was medivac speed upgrade requires additional upgrade instead to be honest.
Hellbat by itself isn't so troublesome
was also expecting some nerf to protoss air units or a slight buff to zerg anti air
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On February 23 2013 14:38 avilo wrote:
If you guys want the three biggest balance issues with the game right now across all 3 races, here they are:
1) Tempest too supply efficient/too much HP. Needs to be back to original 6 supply for TvP/ZvP lategame.
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I don't really understand how a 6 supply 400/300/90sec unit is hard countered by a 4 supply 300/200/60sec unit, it boggles my mind.
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I am truly disapointed. I think before a metagame is even established, and counter builds are developed, the unit is nerfed. I cannot argue it was a bit OP - but so is infestor broodlord - and you see how long it took to develop a counter to that. I just get the sense the changes to this game are very "knee-jerk" reactionary, as opposed to sensible changes.
I know I am going to get a billion counter arguments to this, but this is my thoughts. Niteshade
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On February 23 2013 12:17 vthree wrote:
So when terrans lost horribly against 6 Queen openings, they whined but were told to adapt and play better. Then 6 months lately, blizzard makes minor nerfs to infestors.
And when zergs lost horribly against hell bat openings, they whined and Blizzard nerfs the shit out of hell bats twice within a week.
"Minor nerf" lol. And that wasnt a beta.
How about we bring back 1 supply roach and watch Terran player adapt to it, should be fun
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On February 23 2013 14:48 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 12:17 vthree wrote:
So when terrans lost horribly against 6 Queen openings, they whined but were told to adapt and play better. Then 6 months lately, blizzard makes minor nerfs to infestors.
And when zergs lost horribly against hell bat openings, they whined and Blizzard nerfs the shit out of hell bats twice within a week. "Minor nerf" lol. And that wasnt a beta. How about we bring back 1 supply roach and watch Terran player adapt to it, should be fun
yeah then let's get back 5rax reaper too.
and the even earlier 11/11
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On February 23 2013 14:49 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 14:48 Protosnake wrote:On February 23 2013 12:17 vthree wrote:
So when terrans lost horribly against 6 Queen openings, they whined but were told to adapt and play better. Then 6 months lately, blizzard makes minor nerfs to infestors.
And when zergs lost horribly against hell bat openings, they whined and Blizzard nerfs the shit out of hell bats twice within a week. "Minor nerf" lol. And that wasnt a beta. How about we bring back 1 supply roach and watch Terran player adapt to it, should be fun yeah then let's get back 5rax reaper too. and the even earlier 11/11
Whoa, slow down. Those sound like Terran buffs. I think we need to take our time to see how Terran fares in the next 6-12 months before we do anything drastic. 1 supply roach sounds fine though.
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i wonder why i should buy hots as a terran
for mines ?
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On February 23 2013 14:48 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 12:17 vthree wrote:
So when terrans lost horribly against 6 Queen openings, they whined but were told to adapt and play better. Then 6 months lately, blizzard makes minor nerfs to infestors.
And when zergs lost horribly against hell bat openings, they whined and Blizzard nerfs the shit out of hell bats twice within a week. "Minor nerf" lol. And that wasnt a beta. How about we bring back 1 supply roach and watch Terran player adapt to it, should be fun
So you think -1 range to fungal is a major nerf? Compare to snipe damage getting halved? LOL.
I guess the ghost, BFH, Thor nerfs all were in beta?
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Please, revert the hellbat cargo, too? By the time you can load 4 hellbats in a medivac, zerg should have enough to defend
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Now this is what i hate about the balance team. Most of the time they seem to identify the correct problems, but they go completely ape shit on the changes...150/150 and 2 mins on the armory + bio (i understand it's meant to help bio play, but it fucks up mech against archons) + 2 cargo ...
There is a problem with Hellbat pressure being to strong, and instead of toning it down, they remove it entirely. Have they really learned nothing from WOL?!
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On February 23 2013 13:16 SirPinky wrote:Of course Zergs are rejoicing everywhere it's the most popular and over played race out there. Get ready for never ending ZvZ and PvZ on ladder again - just like WoL. Again, Blizzard succeeded in making Zerg "unharassable" in the first 10 minutes. God forbid any Zerg is intruppted in droning up the 65 drones in the first 10 minutes or that would be unacceptable. Don't get me started on Widow Mine drops - over priced high supply unit that, with the spore buff (non-evo chamber requirement), is futile; One spore one queen and shut down. Kill two birds with one stone if Terran even considers Banshee play. I've been shut down many times against masters and GM that know had to defend early Hellbat pushes - you just don't take a fast third. But 2 nerfs to the Hellbat in 2 weeks is a little overkill...the unit should just be removed from the game and now we just have Terran WoL units.
Agreeing with this. With all of the new units and changes in HotS a lot of people have forgotten about some of the core reasons as to why Terran was so underpowered in WoL: P/Z superior production mechanics, vulnerability to P/Z tech-switch speed that is near-abusive, and a bad late game. Zerg and Protoss both have a significantly buffed late game in HotS... could this be the queen patch 2.0?
On February 23 2013 15:08 perser84 wrote:
i wonder why i should buy hots as a terran
for mines ?
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On February 23 2013 14:35 Patate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 14:30 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
Are they keeping the cargo change as well? Honestly they should revert the cargo space change and just switch Hellbats back to mechanical. It doesn't make any sense that the unit can be healed by medivacs.. I know they want to buff bio with all the changes in HOTS but having hellbats as biological does not make any sense to me. Welcome to 4th quarter 2012.
It didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't make any sense to me now. The fact that its been a while since the change was implemented doesn't mean I'll be more accustomed to it.
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On February 23 2013 14:36 andrewlt wrote:
At some point, if hellbat balancing gets more and more awkward, shouldn't Blizzard just give up and completely separate hellbats and hellions into two separate units? As somebody who is only casually following HotS beta, I don't even know if they have anything in common anymore.
They are separate units.
Current Patch:
- Armory UNLOCKS hellbats
- T.Seros TRANSFORMS hellions to hellbats and back.
CONGRATULATIONS pre-10min hellbat drop is dead.
Well played, Zerg pro-gamers, well played.
Back to hellion run bys even though they can wall off ramps,
Back to marine drops countered by mass drones and 4 roaches,
Why? Because win-ratio. And the Zerg cartel, whining their way into harass free double expands since 2010.
AVILO WAS RIGHT.
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They are still too good imo but I am happy blizz is doing something about them. Unlike Protoss air -_-
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On February 23 2013 15:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 14:36 andrewlt wrote:
At some point, if hellbat balancing gets more and more awkward, shouldn't Blizzard just give up and completely separate hellbats and hellions into two separate units? As somebody who is only casually following HotS beta, I don't even know if they have anything in common anymore. They are separate units. Current Patch: - Armory UNLOCKS hellbats - T.Seros TRANSFORMS hellions to hellbats and back. CONGRATULATIONS pre-10min hellbat drop is dead. Well played, Zerg pro-gamers, well played. Back to hellion run bys even though they can wall off ramps, Back to marine drops countered by mass drones and 4 roaches, Why? Because win-ratio. And the Zerg cartel, whining their way into harass free double expands since 2010. AVILO WAS RIGHT.
Get to a bomb shelter quickly man, looks like the entire sky is falling right on your position ^^
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United States7166 Posts
On February 23 2013 14:54 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 14:49 zhurai wrote:On February 23 2013 14:48 Protosnake wrote:On February 23 2013 12:17 vthree wrote:
So when terrans lost horribly against 6 Queen openings, they whined but were told to adapt and play better. Then 6 months lately, blizzard makes minor nerfs to infestors.
And when zergs lost horribly against hell bat openings, they whined and Blizzard nerfs the shit out of hell bats twice within a week. "Minor nerf" lol. And that wasnt a beta. How about we bring back 1 supply roach and watch Terran player adapt to it, should be fun yeah then let's get back 5rax reaper too. and the even earlier 11/11 Whoa, slow down. Those sound like Terran buffs. I think we need to take our time to see how Terran fares in the next 6-12 months before we do anything drastic. 1 supply roach sounds fine though.
Stop whining about this in every post.
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On February 23 2013 10:18 Hadley88 wrote:
Ridiculous. Looks like Mech has become Turtle until Max again... and thats makes TvP even more terrible. Mech isn't even close to be Viable in TvP.
Mech in TvP is alright now as long as they don't nerf hellbats any more than this. They need to be this powerful to play on a level field with Protoss ground comps. Also, 150/150 is quite a lot for a mid game investment all things considered.
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EPT
