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FYI: You can still make hellbats without the upgrade, you just can't transform in and out of them until you get the upgrade. |
On February 23 2013 17:30 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 14:38 avilo wrote:
If you guys want the three biggest balance issues with the game right now across all 3 races, here they are:
1) Tempest too supply efficient/too much HP. Needs to be back to original 6 supply for TvP/ZvP lategame.
2) Hellbat needs to not be able to be healed and be turned back into a mech unit. Affects TvZ in Zergs favor, affects mech TvP in Terrans favor (ever so slightly on both of those).
3) TvP early game is utterly advantage for Protoss currently. The oracle able to burst down workers so quickly, along with force 300 minerals in missile turrets means not only can oracles sometimes get a freewin, but it is completely safe due to 300 minerals in missile turrets = 1 nexus = planetary nexus from mothership core. There are also a myriad of other all-ins, DT, blink stalker, etc. that are made better with the mothership core. Terran only has 1/1/1 (planetary nexus freewins vs this) and 1 rax FE (you can die to any all-in or be put behind for free due to oracles).
That's about it. The rest can be solved by players imo. hä? In which way is it good for zerg that the hellbat is biological? Because you can NP it and then heal it with Queens? Because if a Protoss player lifts the Terran Hellbat with a Phoenix over a Zerg spore crawler, the spore crawler does extra damage?
you missread there (and avilos post was a bit confusing):
he wants to say that they loose being bio and are mech only again. this way they cant be healed. -> hellbatdrops are a lot weaker
also this means that archons dont do additional damage against them.
imo a good way to do it.
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On February 23 2013 17:19 avilo wrote:
So, I played a bunch of games on this most recent patch. This upgrade is way too expensive. 150/150 and tech lab time.
This is pitiful. So as a Terran i'm not allowed to attack Zerg pre 8 minutes, but they are allowed to kill me with roach all-ins because i don't have hellbat mode.
Yeah...i expect we'll see the pattern of wings of liberty patching. Nerf Terran repeatedly because Z/Ps "can't deal with the new things" but leave everything that is potent against Terran alone because Terran will "learn to play against it."
It's disgusting.
BTW guys, i love the double standard patching due to whining. It's imbalanced for Terran to do anything early game, but Zerg is allowed to research burrow on tier1 and do random attacks with burrowed roaches and save all their drones with burrow.
Come on...i'm sure some of you find this hilarious in the sad way.
What a clown. Please stop posting until you're capable of making a good point.
User was warned for this post
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On February 23 2013 17:59 Tppz! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 17:30 Big J wrote:On February 23 2013 14:38 avilo wrote:
If you guys want the three biggest balance issues with the game right now across all 3 races, here they are:
1) Tempest too supply efficient/too much HP. Needs to be back to original 6 supply for TvP/ZvP lategame.
2) Hellbat needs to not be able to be healed and be turned back into a mech unit. Affects TvZ in Zergs favor, affects mech TvP in Terrans favor (ever so slightly on both of those).
3) TvP early game is utterly advantage for Protoss currently. The oracle able to burst down workers so quickly, along with force 300 minerals in missile turrets means not only can oracles sometimes get a freewin, but it is completely safe due to 300 minerals in missile turrets = 1 nexus = planetary nexus from mothership core. There are also a myriad of other all-ins, DT, blink stalker, etc. that are made better with the mothership core. Terran only has 1/1/1 (planetary nexus freewins vs this) and 1 rax FE (you can die to any all-in or be put behind for free due to oracles).
That's about it. The rest can be solved by players imo. hä? In which way is it good for zerg that the hellbat is biological? Because you can NP it and then heal it with Queens? Because if a Protoss player lifts the Terran Hellbat with a Phoenix over a Zerg spore crawler, the spore crawler does extra damage? you missread there (and avilos post was a bit confusing): he wants to say that they loose being bio and are mech only again. this way they cant be healed. -> hellbatdrops are a lot weaker also this means that archons dont do additional damage against them. imo a good way to do it.
Ah OK, now I get it. Ty
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No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration
-ultra buff vs bio
-oracles vs all races bursting down workers
-tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
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Still think Sky protoss need to be looked at. A lot of players are having trouble with it.
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The problem with this patch is, you have to skip hellions or never transform them. Because the upgrade is so expensive. Only if you go 2 fax hellions it is worthy to upgrade.
Sure there was a nerf necessary. They should at least combine the bf Upgrade and the new transform upgrade. The idea is, you have to decide if you want to go for some runbys -> you choose bf Hellions. Or if you want to go for drop or take a big fight -> you choose Hellbat. Hellbat would have always Blueflame but the damage is the same as atm. You can transform your Blueflame Hellions if Armory is ready.
So the players have to take more strategic decisions and nevertheless it's a nerf (bf ugrade required 150/150)
-> remove transform upgrade
-> Hellbat now requires bf upgrade 150/150
-> Hellbat requires armory but you can transform your blueflame hellion without any additional upgrades
-> Hellbat has always blueflame (same damage as redflame atm)
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would love to see some changes for Zerg Air units. I really wonder why Blizzard say they suck and then letting them go unchanged lol
But at least D3 is coming for PS3 ^^
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On February 23 2013 19:00 Suikakuju wrote:
would love to see some changes for Zerg Air units. I really wonder why Blizzard say they suck and then letting them go unchanged lol
But at least D3 is coming for PS3 ^^
Hey dont laugh about PS3\PS4 the best thing that could happen to SC2 is a port to the new consoles coming out. the extra players would be a good thing provided they didn't gimp the game and let people hook up a mouse and keyboard. The hardware is capable of doing it
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Quite hilarious that it now takes more to make a hellbat, than it does a god damn thor
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On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote:
No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration
-ultra buff vs bio
-oracles vs all races bursting down workers
-tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
You are the most consistent, Terran biased, with some of the longest whining posts and you are failing to make blizzard to change the game in your way lol
you talked about terran cannot attack zerg pre 8 mins in previous post. Well watch how thorzain plays then, I don't see him having issue with early reaper into hellions harassment.
I am not saying your points are all wrong, but if people have to ignore all those "wtf blizzard so stupid only nerf terran 1!@#" before reading any of your points, I for one would not take your points as neutral.
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On February 23 2013 19:24 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote:
No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration
-ultra buff vs bio
-oracles vs all races bursting down workers
-tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls. You are the most consistent, Terran biased, with some of the longest whining posts and you are failing to make blizzard to change the game in your way lol you talked about terran cannot attack zerg pre 8 mins in previous post. Well watch how thorzain plays then, I don't see him having issue with early reaper into hellions harassment.
I just saw him get rolled. Nice example.
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i dont know if i like that whats next? Nerfing Hellbats Damage? ^^
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On February 23 2013 19:18 Solarist wrote:
Quite hilarious that it now takes more to make a hellbat, than it does a god damn thor
That's what happens when you make such a powerful unit so cheap.
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On February 23 2013 19:32 ALPINA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 19:18 Solarist wrote:
Quite hilarious that it now takes more to make a hellbat, than it does a god damn thor That's what happens when you make such a powerful unit so cheap.
Good point. Next Terran patch will increase the cost for thors.
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On February 23 2013 19:18 Solarist wrote:
Quite hilarious that it now takes more to make a hellbat, than it does a god damn thor
It's just the transformation upgrade. You can make hellbats directly after getting an armory.
Which is why I find it super expensive. Make it 100/100 like siege mode, wtf...
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On February 23 2013 19:27 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 19:24 ETisME wrote:On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote:
No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration
-ultra buff vs bio
-oracles vs all races bursting down workers
-tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls. You are the most consistent, Terran biased, with some of the longest whining posts and you are failing to make blizzard to change the game in your way lol you talked about terran cannot attack zerg pre 8 mins in previous post. Well watch how thorzain plays then, I don't see him having issue with early reaper into hellions harassment. I just saw him get rolled. Nice example.
his opening didn't have any problem, it was his transition that had the issue. look at the game he is playing now.
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At least combine blueflame upgrade with hellbat so that terran has some options. Why arent they doing that instead of this mess?
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Only thing left now is to make it cost gas, like 15 or 25, and then make it so it doesn't get healed from medivacs and increase it's armor slightly.
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150/150 huh? Okey then it is better to go for 6 hellions to get some map control > throw armory in meantime > pump hellbats and ignore upgrade alltogether .
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On February 23 2013 19:44 Snusmumriken wrote:
At least combine blueflame upgrade with hellbat so that terran has some options. Why arent they doing that instead of this mess?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned how awkward blue flame at this point. They should have just nerfed the hellbat damage slightly, and have blue flame make up for the lost damage. Then you have weaker hellbats but can still get them early-ish, and stronger hellbats later on. Right now its no hellbats at all without an upgrade and an upgrade that only helps one half of the unit. And they both cost freakin 150/150.
These kinds of fixes are insanely obvious.
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EPT
