EPTWCS USA Runner-Up Daisuki maphacking? - Page 48
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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mindjames
Israel354 Posts
On February 16 2013 04:56 nunez wrote: MLGADAM just tweeted that he has been replaced by caliber. solid call. Success! | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
On February 16 2013 03:57 crbox wrote: Well... He has history lol he was just caught? You need to understand hacking on ladder and hacking in tournaments is almost the same thing. Yes it's worst to hack in tournament but basically in both case you hacked. The difference is only the motivation behind it. It doesn't make it okay to hack on ladder you need to get that through your head e.e You completely skimmed over that, I guess. Emphasis on "if there were some evidence of Gosu User's claim." If I rob a bank I am not immediately guilty of robbing every bank in the city. | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On February 16 2013 04:46 bK- wrote: My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports. On the flip side, it's safe to say a lot of people would have never heard of NITRIX if not for this incident. | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote: On the flip side, it's safe to say a lot of people would have never heard of NITRIX if not for this incident. Yeah, I'm still curious about this side of it all. It seems a lot of people are getting personally offended that this guy would MH, and totally ignoring other things surrounding this event. -earlier post- + Show Spoiler + On February 16 2013 04:46 bK- wrote: Hide nested quote - On February 16 2013 04:42 StayPhrosty wrote: On February 16 2013 04:34 lastshadow wrote: On February 16 2013 04:21 IdrA wrote: On February 16 2013 03:49 pigmanbear wrote: On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now". God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now. maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable. IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc. I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true. On February 16 2013 04:25 ROOTT1 wrote: On February 15 2013 22:22 pigmanbear wrote: On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case! I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week. i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise. I definitely agree man. That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better. My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports. Ok, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure it's quite so clear cut. I think it's up to the sponsor them self to decide if this was a bad thing. Personally, I wouldn't have even heard of this guy or his sponsor if not for this news (the old saying, any news is good news, or w/e). I'm still up in the air about how negative this was, can someone confirm from other sponsors that a thing like this really makes them view e-sports in a more negative light? I suppose if this were more common it might reflect the community, but I honestly haven't seen something like this in quite a while, so I would think it's not quite as bad a some people are making it out to be right now. It's easy to take a 'tough on bad guys' stance without really thinking in-depth about the whole thing, so I just want to be sure we've covered all our bases in this case. | ||
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
On February 16 2013 04:38 ConGee wrote: Didn't Korean pro teams use map hacks during in-team practice sessions? no, that was just extremely shitty translation by RGN's manager at the time | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
Cheating is cheating. Why people are trying to marginalize it is beyond me. | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:23 Wpgstevo wrote: The events surrounding it are irrelevant, unless someone held a gun to his head. Cheating is cheating. Why people are trying to marginalize it is beyond me. :/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us. | ||
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:30 StayPhrosty wrote: :/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us. I find the arguments claiming injury to be dubious simply because this occurred when most professional players are already playing the expansion. A high rank in Wings of Liberty is at this point for nothing but vanity. A year ago I'd argue otherwise. | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
That's all that is needed. Everything else requires a lot of research and data we can't easily obtain. If you are interested in the damages cheating has on a sport or community, find a study yourself or do one. If you want to assert cheating does no damage, then you make the case. I'm not going to make the case for you. Hint - you can't. | ||
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:30 StayPhrosty wrote: :/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us. using NITRIX as your example isn't really good, considering the circumstances. it seemed like they not only encouraged him to hack, but also the 'sponsor' hacked himself playing 3v3s with daisuki (according to daisuki himself). i am fairly confident that any other professional business that could possibly invest into sc2 would have nothing to do with cheating in competition. i'm sure if you did a survey with the current sponsors they'd think you'd be joking. hacking, cheating, corruption stunts the growth of the starcraft 2 scene as a whole, i don't think this is debatable. edit: and i think what we 'gain' from having a company like NITRIX come in and pay people to hack is so so small in comparison to what we would gain as a whole from having a no bullshit policy on cheating. to be frank i don't think we gain anything from having a company like NITRIX involved in our scene. talking about what they gain isn't really relevant for us. | ||
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
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pingy[wen]
United States157 Posts
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:08 stew_ wrote: no, that was just extremely shitty translation by RGN's manager at the time I will personally tell you I know of three progamers who use maphack and food-hack (see opponents food count) during practice games with other pro-gamer friends. They don't use it on the ladder or anything, but they do use it when creating builds etc to save time of the replay-watching. It also saves them time for having to constantly watch replays/resume games from certain situations as they can just adjust instantly/learn the best stuff instantly. | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:50 nunez wrote: using NITRIX as your example isn't really good, considering the circumstances. it seemed like they not only encouraged him to hack, but also the 'sponsor' hacked himself playing 3v3s with daisuki (according to daisuki himself). i am fairly confident that any other professional business that could possibly invest into sc2 would have nothing to do with cheating in competition. i'm sure if you did a survey with the current sponsors they'd think you'd be joking. hacking, cheating, corruption stunts the growth of the starcraft 2 scene as a whole, i don't think this is debatable. edit: and i think what we 'gain' from having a company like NITRIX come in and pay people to hack is so so small in comparison to what we would gain as a whole from having a no bullshit policy on cheating. to be frank i don't think we gain anything from having a company like NITRIX involved in our scene. talking about what they gain isn't really relevant for us. Okay, thanks for letting me know. This is something i was looking for, as I had no idea NITRIX was involved with his decision to use hacks. All I meant was that this controversy means exposure for a sponsor, which means revenue for our players. Now, some companies may not want to be associated with this sort of shady behaviour, and they may look down on the industry, but tbh if a big sponsor gets more exposure and then gets to sit back and say 'we had nothing to do with this' then they seem to be getting a decent gain. As far as cheating/hacking hurting the growth of sc2, I'm really not sure where your argument is coming from. You say it's not debatable but I'm honestly curious what people are going to stop playing/not play sc2 because somebody hacked once. Obviously if the game was overrun with rampant hacking then it would be bad for the ladder experience, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now, and I think blizzard has other things on their hands to deal with that are making the ladder experience negative for a lot of people. A hacker on the ladder obviously makes his opponent frustrated that he lost, but what's one game, really? You could make a case that no cheese should be allowed because it causes people on the ladder to lose without realizing why. Obviously cheese is a legitimate part of the game because of it's competitive ability at a high level of play, and hacking doesn't provide this. That being said, it's not like a player has his time 'robbed' just because he lost a ladder match. I would argue that there are many situations where players lose because of something they totally fail to understand about their opponent, so having whatever tiny percentage increase that this single player caused doesn't really seem like such a travesty. | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
What's one tournament, really? Whats one prize purse, really? ... What's one murder, really? Just because you phrase something dismissively, doesn't mean there is no effect. It seems like you just don't care that hacking is ruining the experience for some people. And yes, it is time robbed. It is a game where the player could have had a legitimate chance of winning. Or at least a learning experience. Or at least fun. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
hacking / cheating takes away from everyday Joe's ladder experience on a daily basis. hacking / cheating takes away from competition, and takes money away from truly talented players in weekly cups / monthly cups stopping them from progressing as well as they should have. hacking / cheating takes away from the reputation of the sport. i don't agree with your cheese argument either. there is a reason why there is a gm / master hacker thread, but not a gm / master cheeser thread. but you are more than welcome to start one. i got a slew of replays for you. god damned cheesers. i think you are trying a bit too hard to play the devils advocate here. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
i can not say that i am surprised. | ||
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