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On February 01 2013 07:22 Plansix wrote:
If a slightly larger than 32 player open bracket is the key feature in an event for you, I guess MLG was never going to make you happy. As for your points, I have read them, but I don’t think they are very good. This is a single event and MLG has clearly stated that the open bracket was removed due to release of HotS being so close. Guess what? Blizzard is only releasing HotS one time, so after that MGL can have the open bracket again and everything with be sunshine and roses.
That is my major problem with people complaining about the lack of an open bracket. MLG had a totally reasonable issue that HotS release date is so close that it would negatively impact the event and they took steps to avoid that. But for some reason people are complaining that their favorite, obscure SC2 semi-pro won’t be able to play and get knocked out by a Code S Korean in the open bracket, for this ONE EVENT.
It reminds me of the people in the SotG thread who complain that the time of the show is bad for people in Europe. Like the host have control of the sun or when they need to go to work.
Nowhere have I said that I give a shit about having an open bracket, just that having an event which is entirely composed of arbitrarily invited players is bad and unfair.
Your argumentative process so far has consisted of ignoring everything I say, putting words in my mouth, and now comparing me to people who complain about the timezones of SotG (lol). The fact that you keep telling me to stop complaining about the lack of an open bracket when that hasn't even been something I complained about is very discouraging. Like talking with an especially stubborn and unintelligent brick wall
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On February 01 2013 07:27 ZanXala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:06 RemarK wrote:On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote:
I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play. IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow. Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you. Do you have some kind of inside information that you're not telling us about that noone of these "better players" just declined their invites cause they'll be playing only wol up to this point?
I don't know if he does, but I found this in his profile:
On May 02 2012 10:57 RemarK wrote:
Hey everyone!
I'm RemarK, a grandmaster Protoss on the NA server. I come from an FPS background (competitive Halo player for 5+ years), and I switched to SC2 starting December 2010.
I'll be streaming ladder and tournament games, the occasional casting of showmatches or practice games, plus playing other games (like Super Meat Boy, Bastion, and Halo 4) for fun on my stream.
Season 10: Rank 43 Grandmaster
Season 9: Rank 102 Grandmaster
Season 8: Rank 82 Grandmaster
Ro32 IPL6 Amateur Qualifier (2-0 over STBrain, 0-2 vs STPanic)
Top 16 AGL August Invitational
SPGL Season 1 Nationals Top 12
Top 16 AGL June Invitational
Top 16 Streamer’s Community Choice Tournament
2nd Place The Redditor Cup (3-1 over Sasquatch, 2-4 vs JonSnow)
Winner Multitude Gaming Open A
Winner SpaceWhales Showmatch Series vs Glon (2-1)
Winner AGL August Qualifier #1 (3-0 over pulseKitty)
Winner HeXp Open #3
Winner Wonkman’s $20 Online Tournament
Winner rCraftGaming Open 17
LBR4 MLG Raleigh 2012
LBR4 MLG Anaheim 2011
ISTL Season 1 MVP
Stanford University CSL team ace player
ISTL Season 3 Finalist (Perfect record up to the finals, including winning double kill against Western Wolves)
Cheers,
RemarK
I wonder if the reason he is mad the open bracket was removed was because he can't play in it? Or maybe he is looking out for the good of us all and the quality of the event. But I doubt it.
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On February 01 2013 07:32 RemarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:22 Plansix wrote:
If a slightly larger than 32 player open bracket is the key feature in an event for you, I guess MLG was never going to make you happy. As for your points, I have read them, but I don’t think they are very good. This is a single event and MLG has clearly stated that the open bracket was removed due to release of HotS being so close. Guess what? Blizzard is only releasing HotS one time, so after that MGL can have the open bracket again and everything with be sunshine and roses.
That is my major problem with people complaining about the lack of an open bracket. MLG had a totally reasonable issue that HotS release date is so close that it would negatively impact the event and they took steps to avoid that. But for some reason people are complaining that their favorite, obscure SC2 semi-pro won’t be able to play and get knocked out by a Code S Korean in the open bracket, for this ONE EVENT.
It reminds me of the people in the SotG thread who complain that the time of the show is bad for people in Europe. Like the host have control of the sun or when they need to go to work.
Nowhere have I said that I give a shit about having an open bracket, just that having an event which is entirely composed of arbitrarily invited players is bad and unfair. Your argumentative process so far has consisted of ignoring everything I say, putting words in my mouth, and now comparing me to people who complain about the timezones of SotG (lol). The fact that you keep telling me to stop complaining about the lack of an open bracket when that hasn't even been something I complained about is very discouraging. Like talking with an especially stubborn and unintelligent brick wall
Is is unfair because because you can't play? Because after reviewing your profile, that seems to be the main reason you are upset. While valid and a good reason, I think everyone has made some good points why MLG is pretty justified the lack of an open bracket. Maybe next MLG you will get to play, or at IPL.
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I guess IPL6 is now the best tournament in the West.
Not having opening bracket hurts.
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cool, cant wait to watch the qualifiers, and super pumped for the main event
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On February 01 2013 07:36 Plansix wrote:
I wonder if the reason he is mad the open bracket was removed was because he can't play in it? Or maybe he is looking out for the good of us all and the quality of the event. But I doubt it.
No.... I wouldn't qualify, I'm the first person who will tell you that I'm trash. Again, it's not a loss to me, because IPL has qualifiers + open bracket for me to participate and do poorly in. But it is a loss for people who are much better than me and some of the invited players who don't get the chance to show their skills in a premier international league
Edit: you can think what you want, although going through my posting history and bringing stuff from other threads (while still ignoring everything I say) is kinda sad
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Another disappointment. MLG going downhill fast.
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On February 01 2013 07:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:27 ZanXala wrote:On February 01 2013 07:06 RemarK wrote:On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote:
I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play. IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow. Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you. Do you have some kind of inside information that you're not telling us about that noone of these "better players" just declined their invites cause they'll be playing only wol up to this point? I don't know if he does, but I found this in his profile: Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 10:57 RemarK wrote:
Hey everyone!
I'm RemarK, a grandmaster Protoss on the NA server. I come from an FPS background (competitive Halo player for 5+ years), and I switched to SC2 starting December 2010.
I'll be streaming ladder and tournament games, the occasional casting of showmatches or practice games, plus playing other games (like Super Meat Boy, Bastion, and Halo 4) for fun on my stream.
Season 10: Rank 43 Grandmaster
Season 9: Rank 102 Grandmaster
Season 8: Rank 82 Grandmaster
Ro32 IPL6 Amateur Qualifier (2-0 over STBrain, 0-2 vs STPanic)
Top 16 AGL August Invitational
SPGL Season 1 Nationals Top 12
Top 16 AGL June Invitational
Top 16 Streamer’s Community Choice Tournament
2nd Place The Redditor Cup (3-1 over Sasquatch, 2-4 vs JonSnow)
Winner Multitude Gaming Open A
Winner SpaceWhales Showmatch Series vs Glon (2-1)
Winner AGL August Qualifier #1 (3-0 over pulseKitty)
Winner HeXp Open #3
Winner Wonkman’s $20 Online Tournament
Winner rCraftGaming Open 17
LBR4 MLG Raleigh 2012
LBR4 MLG Anaheim 2011
ISTL Season 1 MVP
Stanford University CSL team ace player
ISTL Season 3 Finalist (Perfect record up to the finals, including winning double kill against Western Wolves)
Cheers,
RemarK I wonder if the reason he is mad the open bracket was removed was because he can't play in it? Or maybe he is looking out for the good of us all and the quality of the event. But I doubt it.
Yeah, it's so stupid to have an event with Life, Flash, Bomber, Leenock and potentially a bunch of both some of the most skilled players in the world like Parting, RorO, Polt or even some of the most hard working hots practicers like IdrA or GuMiHo play a new game with hours and hours of easily accessable content leading up to a live event with a decent price pool. Who would want to watch that, MLG should know that everything the fans care about is that SentryImmortalAllinEveryGame, the great EU gm protoss and BanelingBustingWithoutManagingToInjectLarvaeOn2Hatches the fantastic NA zerg gets to play in a qualifier...
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On February 01 2013 07:40 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I guess IPL6 is now the best tournament in the West.
Not having opening bracket hurts.
cause their slightly larger than 32 man open bracket for their side event is a game changer.
and using WoL after HotS is out.....
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HotS.
Now with (serious) money.
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I like this. Our first glimpse at what HotS is really about now that there's something on the line in these matches.
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This is a one time thing due to hots release date......
Lower your pitchforks guys, you know you will watch this anyways.
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So much bitterness and hate in this thread; MLG is definitely the EG of tournament organizers :D
Looking forward to some great matches and whatever new streaming options were alluded to by the MLG guys in the thread. Are there any benefits of being a gold member for these tournaments?
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On one hand, Scarlett vs Goswser (two players who made quarterfinals in Iron Squid), on the other hand IdrA-Ddoro, Fenix State and ViBE-Illusion. How can this be fair ?
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On February 01 2013 08:15 Boucot wrote:
On one hand, Scarlett vs Goswser (two players who made quarterfinals in Iron Squid), on the other hand IdrA-Ddoro, Fenix State and ViBE-Illusion. How can this be fair ?
Shut up and support eSports it's only for one event anyone who complains or criticizes hates MLG
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On February 01 2013 08:15 Boucot wrote:
On one hand, Scarlett vs Goswser (two players who made quarterfinals in Iron Squid), on the other hand IdrA-Ddoro, Fenix State and ViBE-Illusion. How can this be fair ?
To me those look like balanced match-ups, so they're kind of fair.
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On February 01 2013 07:48 Ruscour wrote:
Taiwan is in SEA now?
Moonglade and Sen are both worthy and deserving of invites and there really isn't anyone else even close geographically. I guess they just figured it was close enough.
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Canada16217 Posts
On February 01 2013 07:48 proofy wrote:
Another disappointment. MLG going downhill fast.
ahhhhh no
To be honest the community is the let down this time, if they can't understand why this is happening then they just shouldn't watch, everyone has enjoyed MLG many many times but no one has faith that this will work and are immediately throwing it to the side as a failure which is absolutely ridiculous.
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On February 01 2013 02:22 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote:
How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless. So because you made GM in a beta where none of the top SC2 players in the world are playing, because, well, it's a friggin beta and they have actual tournaments to play and practice for, you think you deserve to get invited to a tournament with a 25K 1st place prize? Seriously?... You think the reason this tournament exists, the people who will actually tune in to watch, would rather watch you than DRG or Flash? You think we care whether they ever got GM in HotS, or won a HotS tournament? Get over yourself...
Its not about that. Having an open brackets serves different purposes. ANYONE can register and have a shot at it.
It does not matter that its impossible but the opportunity to try it no matter the odds and to see how far you can go is a very important thing. Its also kind of tied with the whole big problem of Starcraft in general being too hard for people to get in to and it doesn't help neither the fans/community/newcomers or the players and events overall themselves.
Its always way more amazing to see a random player or low rated one, make it out of the hell of open bracket and kick serious ass in the group stage than to start with a very bleak invite only setup.
I really hope MLG will understand in the future how important the open bracket system is for everyone and the betterment of starcraft esports in general.
Stop fighting and trying to be different than your opponent (IPL) and actualy learn and improve and offer the best esports experience fans can get.
P.S. For MLG : You need to up your standards and the quality of your production in general.
Stop being so greedy and charge so much. You have no ideea how many fans from different parts of the world are eager to buy tickets for MLG but are turned off by the exagerated prices prolly calculated for the average american that just slumps in the couch 24/7 and money falls from the sky for him. You market yourself heavily towards a certain audience while shutting down other potentialy bigger ones.
Also learn from Dreamhack and other events. I doubt its that impossibly hard to organize such epic events as they do.
And ultimately don't forget why you are doing all you are doing in the first place. If you let greed and other aspects take over the passion for the game and community itself, you won't live long.
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EPT
