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On January 13 2013 20:38 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 12:35 Seeker wrote:
:/
I think I called it when I said Disbanded TSL vs Dying coL. Actually I think there was already a post about this before you made that comment. Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 17:23 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 13 2013 17:17 dcemuser wrote:On January 13 2013 13:18 aust77 wrote:
As much as I've been something of a cynic with regard to recent developments in the scene (disbandment of SlayerS+TSL, with Prime/NSH possibly next), this news is less outright negative for the health of SC2 as an e-sport. Considering how SlayerS and TSL disbanded, neither of those had much to do with the health of SC2 as an e-sport, lol. SlayerS was an explosion of the world's largest dramabomb, and TSL was because their players all left every time they got good. TSL had trouble even securing sponsors even with power-hitters like Shine, HyuN, Symbol, and Polt. Seems kind of like a problem to me >_< There doesn't seem to be enough sponsor backing in Korea but then again it might be due to the KeSPA-influx. I don't know TSL's situation before the KeSPA transition though but I don't think it was any better. That's mostly BECAUSE all TSL players left as soon as they got good.... SymboL got good but never showed any top finishes. HyuN is famous for being good, but aside from Fight Club, never showed top finishes. Shine was just known to be a solid player, but he wasn't famous. Polt was at his peak before he joined TSL. All of TSL's famous/huge players left as soon as they became good. Polt is the only acception as he came into TSL after he was already famous/huge. TSL had the best sponsorship and the first salaries in SC2 history. Their problem arose because all of the TSL players backstabbed TSL due to greed and other selfish reasons. If I were a sponsor I wouldn't want to sponsor a team that has a history of creating huge players that always leave to other teams, regardless of the high salary they make. (also why I wouldn't pick up Parting if I were a pro team manager)
What the... Symbol got 2nd place at Iron Squid 1, HomeStory Cup VI and MLG Spring Arena 2, plus 2 GSL Code S RO8 and a top 6 at IPL5. HyuN got 2nd place last GSL, which is pretty high finish.
TSL did a bad job at attracting sponsors. They had the entire 2012 to benefit the shape of Polt and Symbol (plus HyuN at the end of the year).
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On January 14 2013 00:17 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:38 Shinta) wrote:On January 13 2013 12:35 Seeker wrote:
:/
I think I called it when I said Disbanded TSL vs Dying coL. Actually I think there was already a post about this before you made that comment. On January 13 2013 17:23 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 13 2013 17:17 dcemuser wrote:On January 13 2013 13:18 aust77 wrote:
As much as I've been something of a cynic with regard to recent developments in the scene (disbandment of SlayerS+TSL, with Prime/NSH possibly next), this news is less outright negative for the health of SC2 as an e-sport. Considering how SlayerS and TSL disbanded, neither of those had much to do with the health of SC2 as an e-sport, lol. SlayerS was an explosion of the world's largest dramabomb, and TSL was because their players all left every time they got good. TSL had trouble even securing sponsors even with power-hitters like Shine, HyuN, Symbol, and Polt. Seems kind of like a problem to me >_< There doesn't seem to be enough sponsor backing in Korea but then again it might be due to the KeSPA-influx. I don't know TSL's situation before the KeSPA transition though but I don't think it was any better. That's mostly BECAUSE all TSL players left as soon as they got good.... SymboL got good but never showed any top finishes. HyuN is famous for being good, but aside from Fight Club, never showed top finishes. Shine was just known to be a solid player, but he wasn't famous. Polt was at his peak before he joined TSL. All of TSL's famous/huge players left as soon as they became good. Polt is the only acception as he came into TSL after he was already famous/huge. TSL had the best sponsorship and the first salaries in SC2 history. Their problem arose because all of the TSL players backstabbed TSL due to greed and other selfish reasons. If I were a sponsor I wouldn't want to sponsor a team that has a history of creating huge players that always leave to other teams, regardless of the high salary they make. (also why I wouldn't pick up Parting if I were a pro team manager) What the... Symbol got 2nd place at Iron Squid 1, HomeStory Cup VI and MLG Spring Arena 2, plus 2 GSL Code S RO8 and a top 6 at IPL5. HyuN got 2nd place last GSL, which is pretty high finish. TSL did a bad job at attracting sponsors. They had the entire 2012 to benefit the shape of Polt and Symbol (plus HyuN at the end of the year).
Yeah, I agree. They had a stacked lineup that SHOULD have been able to secure a few decent sponsors. Polt is a huge fan favorite and a top contender for most foreign tournaments he attends. Sure they don't have an MVP who wins 4 GSL's but who the fuck does other than IM? Lol. It's either ridiculously hard for these teams to pick up a stable sponsor nowadays or they are THAT bad at the business side of things.
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Why is Katarina in that picture lol
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On January 13 2013 23:47 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 22:54 Noobity wrote:On January 13 2013 13:26 TheSwamp wrote:
LOL I guess it's insanely difficult to find someone that wants to produce media... Not at all, but it's insanely difficult for a media producer to find a company willing to pay them what they're worth. I never saw a recruitment post. $45,000 a year and room and board in that house and I would have been all on that, with constant media coming out of it so long as the right tools were provided. Course if they wanted someone with college education on media production with debt and shit to pay and weren't willing to give them at least the average salary, then I don't see how the dude could have worked full time as a media producer. The problem is that everyone expects the players to be paid salaries and the guys helping to do it for love of the game. I hate to break it to teams, but being a pro-gamer doesn't require a degree. You don't go into debt learning to be a pro-gamer. Those who go to school to budget teams, create media, even cooking in some areas, etc. all need schooling, they need to be paid, and they need to be paid fairly. If I didn't have a college degree weighing me down I could live in fairfield county, where I live, one of the most expensive places in the country to live, for around $30,000 a year. If I'm a pro gamer with no debt or living expenses, $8000 a year is probably fair. Of course, it's possible that the media dude was just a flake and had been getting paid fairly the whole time. Us artsy types tend to flake out a lot. Hate to break it to you but right now players are lucky if they have any salary at all. $8000 a year for a progamer? Join EG if you want to get paid that much, otherwise good luck.
Who am i to contradict, but do we mix up "year" and "month" here?
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On January 14 2013 00:35 ROOTheognis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 00:17 Boucot wrote:On January 13 2013 20:38 Shinta) wrote:On January 13 2013 12:35 Seeker wrote:
:/
I think I called it when I said Disbanded TSL vs Dying coL. Actually I think there was already a post about this before you made that comment. On January 13 2013 17:23 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 13 2013 17:17 dcemuser wrote:On January 13 2013 13:18 aust77 wrote:
As much as I've been something of a cynic with regard to recent developments in the scene (disbandment of SlayerS+TSL, with Prime/NSH possibly next), this news is less outright negative for the health of SC2 as an e-sport. Considering how SlayerS and TSL disbanded, neither of those had much to do with the health of SC2 as an e-sport, lol. SlayerS was an explosion of the world's largest dramabomb, and TSL was because their players all left every time they got good. TSL had trouble even securing sponsors even with power-hitters like Shine, HyuN, Symbol, and Polt. Seems kind of like a problem to me >_< There doesn't seem to be enough sponsor backing in Korea but then again it might be due to the KeSPA-influx. I don't know TSL's situation before the KeSPA transition though but I don't think it was any better. That's mostly BECAUSE all TSL players left as soon as they got good.... SymboL got good but never showed any top finishes. HyuN is famous for being good, but aside from Fight Club, never showed top finishes. Shine was just known to be a solid player, but he wasn't famous. Polt was at his peak before he joined TSL. All of TSL's famous/huge players left as soon as they became good. Polt is the only acception as he came into TSL after he was already famous/huge. TSL had the best sponsorship and the first salaries in SC2 history. Their problem arose because all of the TSL players backstabbed TSL due to greed and other selfish reasons. If I were a sponsor I wouldn't want to sponsor a team that has a history of creating huge players that always leave to other teams, regardless of the high salary they make. (also why I wouldn't pick up Parting if I were a pro team manager) What the... Symbol got 2nd place at Iron Squid 1, HomeStory Cup VI and MLG Spring Arena 2, plus 2 GSL Code S RO8 and a top 6 at IPL5. HyuN got 2nd place last GSL, which is pretty high finish. TSL did a bad job at attracting sponsors. They had the entire 2012 to benefit the shape of Polt and Symbol (plus HyuN at the end of the year). Yeah, I agree. They had a stacked lineup that SHOULD have been able to secure a few decent sponsors. Polt is a huge fan favorite and a top contender for most foreign tournaments he attends. Sure they don't have an MVP who wins 4 GSL's but who the fuck does other than IM? Lol. It's either ridiculously hard for these teams to pick up a stable sponsor nowadays or they are THAT bad at the business side of things.
I really think especially TSL and maybe even Slayers would not have disbanded if they have had a reasonable English-speaking manager. This is probably a bigger problem than finding sponsors itself.
Oh and btw why is SC2 dying becaue a completely irrelevant gaming house in NA, that I have never even heard of before, is closing its doors?
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On January 13 2013 22:40 fortheGG wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:43 Integra wrote:On January 13 2013 12:31 Shinespark wrote:
SC2's death is coming a little faster every day... Didn't you read? The reason they closed it down cause of lack of Marketing, they had planned to release media content which would support the financial side of the teamhouse, much like what EG and TeamLiquid does. If this was 2011 they probably wouldn't have closed it. At this point in time, there is no reason to invest in a progaming house for foreigners, as all you get are low stream numbers, low view counts and zero results. I don't want to join the bandwagon regarding sc2's death, but Col's house highlights the situation of teams that aren't EG or TL, teams that do not have (seemingly) endless pockets.
There are plenty of good reasons as long as you know how to run a company, Just look at EG and TL, their players are nothing special among the top of of pro players. There are actually only two NA teams that understands how to run a business because that's what running a team is, a business. The other teams are terrible at marketing themselves, their products (in this case the players) and to highlight their sponsors.
The amount of top players that can make it is saturated at this point but not amount of teams. And the only reason why EG and TL still are running is not because they have money but because they are generating money. TotalBiscuits SC2 team won't die out anytime soon mainly because TB is generating money from his ability to promote and advertise with youtube.
And why the hell shouldn't the other teams go down? In some areas, like the IT and information industry, which we are in, the failure rate within the first 5 years is as high as 95%
The reason why these teams fails are not because of SC2, it's because they don't know shit about business and therefore they close down, this happens in every other single business niche, why would SC2 be any different?.
It's not a a amazingly huge project. You get a house, good players and then you somehow promote them and their sponsors, that's it! Now, I'm not saying its easy, what I'm pointing out is that it's very doable. And there are even people out there who sells "crap in a box" which essentially is bullshit and the only reason people are paying for it is because their marketing is so dammn good, that sometimes, even if you don't have anything of real value you can still make a profit because you know how to market something incredible well.
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E-sports dont go. 
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the bad news keeps coming ... hope things turn around.
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On January 13 2013 12:22 Duggibobo wrote:
Sucks, but well, a rather stupid thing to rent a luxury mansion when there obviously isn't not enough money to live in mansions in this sport YET.
Btw nobody needs a mansion to be a good player
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Aww, houses closes randomly atm
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On January 14 2013 01:05 ES.Genie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 00:35 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 14 2013 00:17 Boucot wrote:On January 13 2013 20:38 Shinta) wrote:On January 13 2013 12:35 Seeker wrote:
:/
I think I called it when I said Disbanded TSL vs Dying coL. Actually I think there was already a post about this before you made that comment. On January 13 2013 17:23 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 13 2013 17:17 dcemuser wrote:On January 13 2013 13:18 aust77 wrote:
As much as I've been something of a cynic with regard to recent developments in the scene (disbandment of SlayerS+TSL, with Prime/NSH possibly next), this news is less outright negative for the health of SC2 as an e-sport. Considering how SlayerS and TSL disbanded, neither of those had much to do with the health of SC2 as an e-sport, lol. SlayerS was an explosion of the world's largest dramabomb, and TSL was because their players all left every time they got good. TSL had trouble even securing sponsors even with power-hitters like Shine, HyuN, Symbol, and Polt. Seems kind of like a problem to me >_< There doesn't seem to be enough sponsor backing in Korea but then again it might be due to the KeSPA-influx. I don't know TSL's situation before the KeSPA transition though but I don't think it was any better. That's mostly BECAUSE all TSL players left as soon as they got good.... SymboL got good but never showed any top finishes. HyuN is famous for being good, but aside from Fight Club, never showed top finishes. Shine was just known to be a solid player, but he wasn't famous. Polt was at his peak before he joined TSL. All of TSL's famous/huge players left as soon as they became good. Polt is the only acception as he came into TSL after he was already famous/huge. TSL had the best sponsorship and the first salaries in SC2 history. Their problem arose because all of the TSL players backstabbed TSL due to greed and other selfish reasons. If I were a sponsor I wouldn't want to sponsor a team that has a history of creating huge players that always leave to other teams, regardless of the high salary they make. (also why I wouldn't pick up Parting if I were a pro team manager) What the... Symbol got 2nd place at Iron Squid 1, HomeStory Cup VI and MLG Spring Arena 2, plus 2 GSL Code S RO8 and a top 6 at IPL5. HyuN got 2nd place last GSL, which is pretty high finish. TSL did a bad job at attracting sponsors. They had the entire 2012 to benefit the shape of Polt and Symbol (plus HyuN at the end of the year). Yeah, I agree. They had a stacked lineup that SHOULD have been able to secure a few decent sponsors. Polt is a huge fan favorite and a top contender for most foreign tournaments he attends. Sure they don't have an MVP who wins 4 GSL's but who the fuck does other than IM? Lol. It's either ridiculously hard for these teams to pick up a stable sponsor nowadays or they are THAT bad at the business side of things. I really think especially TSL and maybe even Slayers would not have disbanded if they have had a reasonable English-speaking manager. This is probably a bigger problem than finding sponsors itself. Oh and btw why is SC2 dying becaue a completely irrelevant gaming house in NA, that I have never even heard of before, is closing its doors?
Look at the bigger picture. It might seem insignificant to you because you think it's "irrelevant" but it's essential to have regimented team houses in NA. It provides the means for players to go pro/train full-time so they can compete internationally, helps foster new talent and hopefully bring more sponsors in. These are all things that we want/need for e-sports to thrive over here. It's quite unfortunate that compLexity couldn't find a way to somehow make it more profitable and salvage their team house.
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On January 13 2013 12:17 Fionn wrote:
So Azubu is out on Polt, EG or TL is unlikely, and Complexity closed their house.
Incoming Polt.Polt.
Does any1 actually kno where Polt is studying? I feel like that might have "some" influence as to where he will go
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Sucks, my friend was in it and becoming much better. Hopefully some kind of substitute will happen.
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complexity has been such a "meh" team as of late. makes sense to close its doors
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On January 14 2013 00:14 Soybanzai wrote:
You can rent 2 bedroom apartment in Ohio for $450 a month, and stick 4 players in it... no reason to have a huge house to train in.
There are so many reasons why this is a terrible idea I can't even start. Even for free, I would never live like that. You cannot just shove players in front of computers and tell them to practice. The korean gaming houses are a great concept, but it is not the living space that makes them good, it is the number of coaches, players and overall infrastructure that makes them so good. The reason US soccer teams lose to every European and South American soccer teams is not because of the quality of their stadium or practice facility. And it has nothing to do with the number of hours they practice.
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On January 14 2013 02:11 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 12:17 Fionn wrote:
So Azubu is out on Polt, EG or TL is unlikely, and Complexity closed their house.
Incoming Polt.Polt. Does any1 actually kno where Polt is studying? I feel like that might have "some" influence as to where he will go
Polt is studying at NYU.
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On January 14 2013 02:34 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 02:11 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 13 2013 12:17 Fionn wrote:
So Azubu is out on Polt, EG or TL is unlikely, and Complexity closed their house.
Incoming Polt.Polt. Does any1 actually kno where Polt is studying? I feel like that might have "some" influence as to where he will go Polt is studying at NYU.
MLG_Polt incoming.
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On January 14 2013 02:10 ROOTheognis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 01:05 ES.Genie wrote:On January 14 2013 00:35 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 14 2013 00:17 Boucot wrote:On January 13 2013 20:38 Shinta) wrote:On January 13 2013 12:35 Seeker wrote:
:/
I think I called it when I said Disbanded TSL vs Dying coL. Actually I think there was already a post about this before you made that comment. On January 13 2013 17:23 ROOTheognis wrote:On January 13 2013 17:17 dcemuser wrote:On January 13 2013 13:18 aust77 wrote:
As much as I've been something of a cynic with regard to recent developments in the scene (disbandment of SlayerS+TSL, with Prime/NSH possibly next), this news is less outright negative for the health of SC2 as an e-sport. Considering how SlayerS and TSL disbanded, neither of those had much to do with the health of SC2 as an e-sport, lol. SlayerS was an explosion of the world's largest dramabomb, and TSL was because their players all left every time they got good. TSL had trouble even securing sponsors even with power-hitters like Shine, HyuN, Symbol, and Polt. Seems kind of like a problem to me >_< There doesn't seem to be enough sponsor backing in Korea but then again it might be due to the KeSPA-influx. I don't know TSL's situation before the KeSPA transition though but I don't think it was any better. That's mostly BECAUSE all TSL players left as soon as they got good.... SymboL got good but never showed any top finishes. HyuN is famous for being good, but aside from Fight Club, never showed top finishes. Shine was just known to be a solid player, but he wasn't famous. Polt was at his peak before he joined TSL. All of TSL's famous/huge players left as soon as they became good. Polt is the only acception as he came into TSL after he was already famous/huge. TSL had the best sponsorship and the first salaries in SC2 history. Their problem arose because all of the TSL players backstabbed TSL due to greed and other selfish reasons. If I were a sponsor I wouldn't want to sponsor a team that has a history of creating huge players that always leave to other teams, regardless of the high salary they make. (also why I wouldn't pick up Parting if I were a pro team manager) What the... Symbol got 2nd place at Iron Squid 1, HomeStory Cup VI and MLG Spring Arena 2, plus 2 GSL Code S RO8 and a top 6 at IPL5. HyuN got 2nd place last GSL, which is pretty high finish. TSL did a bad job at attracting sponsors. They had the entire 2012 to benefit the shape of Polt and Symbol (plus HyuN at the end of the year). Yeah, I agree. They had a stacked lineup that SHOULD have been able to secure a few decent sponsors. Polt is a huge fan favorite and a top contender for most foreign tournaments he attends. Sure they don't have an MVP who wins 4 GSL's but who the fuck does other than IM? Lol. It's either ridiculously hard for these teams to pick up a stable sponsor nowadays or they are THAT bad at the business side of things. I really think especially TSL and maybe even Slayers would not have disbanded if they have had a reasonable English-speaking manager. This is probably a bigger problem than finding sponsors itself. Oh and btw why is SC2 dying becaue a completely irrelevant gaming house in NA, that I have never even heard of before, is closing its doors? Look at the bigger picture. It might seem insignificant to you because you think it's "irrelevant" but it's essential to have regimented team houses in NA. It provides the means for players to go pro/train full-time so they can compete internationally, helps foster new talent and hopefully bring more sponsors in. These are all things that we want/need for e-sports to thrive over here. It's quite unfortunate that compLexity couldn't find a way to somehow make it more profitable and salvage their team house.
Maybe I am just not well informed, but I don't know about any foreign player that made significant improvements in tournament results because of MoW or any of the NA houses. Imo if these houses are anything, then they are extremely expensive marketing stunts and everyone gets hyped about them, because the community seems to think just by emulating the Korean training system and pimping it up with lots of money, the foreign players will suddenly become bonjwas. They won't and especially not in training houses that aren't build for training, but to provide media content none cares about(streams and what not). This isn't a sign of SC2 dying, it's a sign that the foreign way of "fostering new talent"(aka a throw a shit ton of money around) failed pretty hard.
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EPT
