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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
And the big picture is not looking pretty. TheBB's stats may give you a hint about it. Ironsquid's ro8 reflects it pretty damn well too. + Show Spoiler + 6 zergs in ro8 I feel sorry for SC2. In 2012 there was so much progress in the way tournaments are run and casted. At the same time the game transformed into something barely watchable. Nerfing the infestor will not change that - WoL feels dead. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On January 13 2013 07:43 Godwrath wrote: That also has to do with the maps. I still don't know why the fuck Yup, that is why I get annoyed when casters say that zergs are putting their OLs in really great position. Honestly, you can just look at replays of a few games on the map and you can put your OLs in the same location as the pros. They even mark the spot you need to be on the map. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On January 13 2013 07:45 scypio wrote: The IT nerf changes nothing - the zergies took their time and learned that the queen buff extends to each and every composition they can build. Nerfing one of them (even if it is the most frustrating one to deal with) will not change the big picture. And the big picture is not looking pretty. TheBB's stats may give you a hint about it. Ironsquid's ro8 reflects it pretty damn well too. + Show Spoiler + 6 zergs in ro8 I feel sorry for SC2. In 2012 there was so much progress in the way tournaments are run and casted. At the same time the game transformed into something barely watchable. Nerfing the infestor will not change that - WoL feels dead. + Show Spoiler + Iron Squid got lucky with how the zergs were split. If Symbol and Leenock were facing MC or MKP, we might have had 7/8, 8/8 Zerg | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
I feel sorry for SC2. In 2012 there was so much progress in the way tournaments are run and casted. At the same time the game transformed into something barely watchable. Nerfing the infestor will not change that - WoL feels dead. I agree, it feels like the game peaked and fell pretty hard. Pretty much nobody will deny that around blizzard cup finals (DRG vs MMA) was WOL's best times and with HOTS on the horizon it makes the game really dull right now | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On January 13 2013 07:26 SiroKO wrote: It's good to think about ways to solve problems, but it's also good to sometimes try to figure out the reasons why they appeared. A lot of people mentionned the Queen range buff. I would like to mention the myths of Zerg cost-unefectiveness and need of an OP infestor to stand a chance against Terran/Protoss. In fact, these are the 2 faces of the same "troll coin", since Zerg has now the most bases and the best macro capabilities coupled with the most cost-effective unit of the game. They are a lot of other Zerg myths as well, like the inability of putting pressure on Terran/Protoss, the lack of all-ins... Pretty much all of them have been made up and propagated by horrible Zerg foreigners of the past. I agree Since the queen buff, zerg became the swarm for real. But Zerg still have the infestor, the core unit which allow zerg to be cost effective during the fights. Cost effective + swarm macro = op. I'm waiting for huge fungle nerf so that zerg can start to be balanced. | ||
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Thirteenth
Sweden10 Posts
the nerf to infested terrans will help for sure though, maybe that will be enough to even out the winrates | ||
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
 If their strategy was to set expectations really really really low and then do pretty good changes, they're doing an awesome job because I really like these changes  | ||
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Vandrad
Germany951 Posts
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
Every time protoss moves out he's basically all-in because the power of collosus and warp gate has to mean that protoss has almost no defensive power versus a big attack and their units have the silly mechanic of getting more cost-effective in greater numbers (the opposite of Z and T bio/biomech). ZvT just needs some tiny tweaks to be perfect. Onegoal has a great idea giving Snipe high enough damage to allow for infestor, bane, muta etc snipes but with a penalty to massive to prevent blindly massing ghosts to counter everything lategame. Maybe a slight change to queens as well and the matchup is pretty much fixed. | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Whenever Blizzard has launched a new map, all I hear is whining and bitching. Oh "Searing Crater is godawful", "Antiga Shityard is godawful", etc claims. Even Condemned Ridge which is a surprisingly 'great' map to tournament map pool standards that gives you an easy to defend and close main natural and third base is almost unanimously avoided in the ladder map pool. Blizzard should have kept with the quirkier, varied maps and continued to balance the game around play on these maps. Or they should have just not cockblocked Kespa in the first place seeing as their mapmakers are more than willing to shake up the map pool in ways that mapmakers like ESV, TPW, etc. aren't. I want to see Blizzard shake up the metagame with the map pool. This game has become boring because of the influence of tournament maps and the variation in positions was an interesting concept yet it made players groan because of the imbalances it caused which Blizzard weren't quite fixing in their balance updates. A lot of people bitch at Blizzard over Blizzcon 2011 when they had maps in the pool with close positions enabled. This is something removed from virtually all tournament maps since the beginning of time. | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
On January 13 2013 08:28 Clbull wrote: Trying my best not to make this come across as balance whine but I feel the tournament map pools are to blame for the metagame stagnating into this 20 min no rush lategame deathball crap. Thirds are ludicrously easy to obtain and hold, rush distances are often so large that they make one base play entirely un-viable and this has just further augmented reasons to justify greedier builds. Whenever Blizzard has launched a new map, all I hear is whining and bitching. Oh "Searing Crater is godawful", "Antiga Shityard is godawful", etc claims. Even Condemned Ridge which is a surprisingly 'great' map to tournament map pool standards that gives you an easy to defend and close main natural and third base is almost unanimously avoided in the ladder map pool. Blizzard should have kept with the quirkier, varied maps and continued to balance the game around play on these maps. Or they should have just not cockblocked Kespa in the first place seeing as their mapmakers are more than willing to shake up the map pool in ways that mapmakers like ESV, TPW, etc. aren't. I want to see Blizzard shake up the metagame with the map pool. This game has become boring because of the influence of tournament maps and the variation in positions was an interesting concept yet it made players groan because of the imbalances it caused which Blizzard weren't quite fixing in their balance updates. A lot of people bitch at Blizzard over Blizzcon 2011 when they had maps in the pool with close positions enabled. This is something removed from virtually all tournament maps since the beginning of time. No one at high levels (ie, what this discussion is about) wants to play non-tournament maps on ladder. Condemned Ridge (which for the record, I agree with you - can be very interesting) isn't avoided on preference, but rather because playing on it seems like a waste of time if you ever like dipping your toes in any organized tournaments/weekly/daily cups. At the same time, Blizzard should work together with the organizers/map makers, I do agree that the 'official' map pool is contributing to the overall extremely poor state of the game. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On January 13 2013 07:13 Mavvie wrote: No close positions entombed and antiga? Now 30% of my games aren't instant losses! Woohoo! But seriously, I wish these changes happened earlier. Either way, I'm very happy that they're listening to the community and doing what's been asked of them! Sure, it's a little late, but better late than never! I have to admitt that it was pretty funny to play Antiga Shipyard as Terran against Zerg with close spawn since it meant that you could sit in your main base and use tanks to hit Zerg when he tried to expand to his second natural. How the fuck did that even make sense? You can actually siege up and hit Zerg's second natural from your own godammn main base. | ||
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stAMy
Norway30 Posts
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
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BadAim
Norway879 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11110 Posts
On January 13 2013 07:52 Cyro wrote: I agree, it feels like the game peaked and fell pretty hard. Pretty much nobody will deny that around blizzard cup finals (DRG vs MMA) was WOL's best times and with HOTS on the horizon it makes the game really dull right now Well the game wasn't much better when every joe schmo terran could bunker rush his way to victory or 1/1/1 through toss. The game has always had fairly serious and legitimate balance concerns. The thing is that a lot of enthusiasm kinda died naturally over time along with the fact that the style of zerg dominance leads to a less accessible experience. | ||
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Ricoic
39 Posts
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barwick11
44 Posts
Honestly, I'd say let IT's gain from upgrades, but make them cost 50 minerals like auto turrets do. | ||
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