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Dear Tournaments of 2013: Maps - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
January 03 2013 01:19 GMT
#21
We desperately need new maps both on ladder and in tournaments. Daybreak may have been a hugely impressive map but that was what, a year ago? We need more maps, and more variety to the maps. The new maps (and the BW remakes) in Proleague may be kinda gimmicky but at least it is a change.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Tobblish
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden6404 Posts
January 03 2013 01:22 GMT
#22
Pros don't have the time if all tournaments had their "own" maps.
Leagues can't just take a new map "her derp this is good" and then end up with a terrible unbalanced map.

At the same time more maps are needed, different maps.
2012 was pretty bad in that regard if you don't count the Kespa maps.
The curse is real
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 03 2013 01:27 GMT
#23
On January 03 2013 10:22 Tobblish wrote:
Pros don't have the time if all tournaments had their "own" maps.
Leagues can't just take a new map "her derp this is good" and then end up with a terrible unbalanced map.

At the same time more maps are needed, different maps.
2012 was pretty bad in that regard if you don't count the Kespa maps.


Why can a map not be imbalanced to figure out it is? Happened all the time in BW, worked fine there.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Ldawg
Profile Joined December 2011
United States328 Posts
January 03 2013 01:30 GMT
#24
I could not agree more, in fact I find myself only watching the marquee matches in tournaments because the map pool just kills me. The only laddering I do is in the beta, only because they have new maps; I simply can't stand playing or watching much more of these stale maps.

At this point I would take new maps even if all of them came with imbalances.
"Terran so...ice cream!" MKP/MC at HSC IV
FrodaN
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
754 Posts
January 03 2013 01:34 GMT
#25
For NASL, we let the players vote on the map pool to take maps out/put new maps in. They took out one of the new maps we introduced (and rightfully so since it wasn't that good). Players generally dislike unfamiliar maps and if they don't get preparation, cheese builds and poor quality games often show up.

Its very risky for a tournament like MLG to be a trend setter of maps. Better for GSL and Pro league since that have time to prepare.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
January 03 2013 01:36 GMT
#26
Please have better map pools and please use them for ladder blizzard.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2475 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 02:04:11
January 03 2013 01:56 GMT
#27
On January 03 2013 10:34 FrodaN wrote:
For NASL, we let the players vote on the map pool to take maps out/put new maps in. They took out one of the new maps we introduced (and rightfully so since it wasn't that good). Players generally dislike unfamiliar maps and if they don't get preparation, cheese builds and poor quality games often show up.

Its very risky for a tournament like MLG to be a trend setter of maps. Better for GSL and Pro league since that have time to prepare.


I personally see it as the players fault if they are unfamiliar with the map pool. You're signing up for a tournament at a chance to win a huge amount of money, there shouldn't be any maps that you are unfamiliar with. Also, many of these tournaments do allow vetos so if you really are unfamiliar with a map, more then likely you won't have to play it since you can veto it. Unless of course you're in the grand finals, which at that point you should have to play every map in the map pool.

MLG's Fall map pool was:

MLG Antiga Shipyard
MLG ESV Cloud Kingdom
MLG Daybreak
MLG Entombed Valley
MLG Metropolis
MLG Ohana
MLG Tal'Darim Altar

Would it really be bad for MLG to get rid of say Antiga, Metropolis and TDA and replace them with 3 new maps? They'd still have the other 4 to "fall" back on yet it'd bring newer maps in to spice up the map pool.

NASL was actually fairly good with their map pool imo, they changed it up a good chunk season to season. Just looking from Season 3 to Season 4 for instance the only maps that stayed the same were Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak & Ohana. I'm hoping Season 5 we see more changes to the map pool, maybe get rid of CK, Daybreak and Ohana this time which means they'd completely change their map pool in 2 seasons, which is great. It gets shitty when we still see TDA after 2 years, we still see Daybreak after 2 years, we still see Metropolis after 1 year.

Weird that people are still scared of the possibility of an imbalanced map when maps like Metropolis are still getting used (go go zergs)
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
January 03 2013 01:57 GMT
#28
The bigger issue is that Blizzard doesn't do ANYTHING (and lies about it) with the map making community. So many map makers have quit because there is no way for your map to get played or properly tested.
Finnz
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom260 Posts
January 03 2013 01:57 GMT
#29
What ever happened to ESV?
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
January 03 2013 02:02 GMT
#30
I agree in the making of more maps! This diversifies SC2 and kinda limits the "staleness" it all.
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
jworld
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia41 Posts
January 03 2013 02:02 GMT
#31
I agree that some new maps are needed to make games more interesting. So many games play out the same way on some maps that it's become stale.
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 02:17:48
January 03 2013 02:14 GMT
#32
On January 03 2013 10:10 Zenbrez wrote:
I remember Day9, Nony, among others, used to comment and ask tournaments (through shows, not directly) to only use a small number, of familiar maps. We get this and we're not happy?

I do agree though, these maps are getting quite boring.


Well, tournaments still aren't using 5 maps, usually seven. If they were, similar to ESVDiamond's thread on making a tournament map pool, hopefully tournaments would add newer maps more often, not less. Adding one new map each season/tournament is a lot less scary for pro players (who are almost always timid of new maps) when there's only 5 total maps rather than 7 in the pool.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=338532

I watch SC2 more than anyone I personally know, I've bought HD streams for IPL/MLG/Proleague/etc this year, but I don't know if I can keep watching every major tournament without them refreshing their map pools. And it can't be a one time thing. These tournaments need to have it figured out how often they should be refreshing their maps, and have it done before the community starts getting tired of the same maps, not after.

Blizzard of course should take this to heart as well.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 03 2013 02:53 GMT
#33
On January 03 2013 10:57 Finnz wrote:
What ever happened to ESV?


We are still around. Actually why we have been so quiet is due to the problem in the OP. It's pointless to make WoL maps as soon as the HotS beta hit as no one would use them, and there is no major HotS tournaments yet (not part of the OP, just relevant).
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
convention
Profile Joined October 2011
United States622 Posts
January 03 2013 02:56 GMT
#34
The most exciting part of watching tournaments, were those moments when a new strategy was being executed. Now, every game I see, I've seen all of the all ins, I've seen macro play on those maps hundreds of times. New maps bring that excitement of not knowing what is going to happen, what a player is doing, and it brings back the joy in seeing a strategy never before seen. It makes the tournament memorable. For example, I'm sure everyone still remembers the MLG where SlayerS demonstrated their blue-flame hellion builds and tore everyone apart, I sure remember that tournament. However, I've already blanked on the last three(?) which were won by infestor/BL vs pre-hive timing like the thousand games on all of the same maps that we've all seen hundreds of times.
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
January 03 2013 02:57 GMT
#35
On January 03 2013 11:53 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2013 10:57 Finnz wrote:
What ever happened to ESV?


We are still around. Actually why we have been so quiet is due to the problem in the OP. It's pointless to make WoL maps as soon as the HotS beta hit as no one would use them, and there is no major HotS tournaments yet (not part of the OP, just relevant).


I hope to see more ESV weekly or whatevers. There were some awesome maps in those little tournaments. I didn't get to watch them much this year because of work though =(

But yeah, looking forward to the HotS maps from you guys specifically!
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
January 03 2013 02:58 GMT
#36
I'm really tired of those stagnating maps. I will see only the proleague until other tournaments change maps.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 02:59:16
January 03 2013 02:58 GMT
#37
Good post, thanks for making it.

PS: please use more diverse team colors. Red vs. Blue every damn game gets old FAST. At least it's not so bad with PL as we also have orange and green.
o choro é livre
xHadoken
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States171 Posts
January 03 2013 03:02 GMT
#38
I agree that we are seeing the same maps over and over again but since the the map making community is so small there is not much we can do. Good post though
Defeating a sandwich only makes it tastier
Shadow_Dog
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada427 Posts
January 03 2013 03:05 GMT
#39
TBH, I think that a map should not be in a map pool if it's more than a year old.
Parcelleus
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 03:09:37
January 03 2013 03:09 GMT
#40
Just cos a map is old doesnt man it 'has to go'.

Some of the best maps are old like Daybreak.

We should only replace maps when they are better not newer.

IMHO
*burp*
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