How many of us are sick of seeing the same maps being picked up tournament after tournament?
I can not bear to see another full year of tournaments playing the same maps constantly. 2013 is bringing us HoTS and with all these balance and unit changes, we should also see map pool changes as well. Most of us are sick of seeing the same maps being played over and over again. Why are Antiga, Daybreak, Shakuras and TalDarim Altar still being played?
IPL --------------
I was looking forward to 2013, hoping that the bigger tournaments would really spice of their map pools because change is coming. Coming up soon is none other then a sc2 giant, the IPTL! They just posted their premier in the tournament section, niiiice, IPTL is back! I can't wait to see what map changes they might bring into the 2013 season. annnnnnnnd guess what. I got let down. Take a look:
Why do we still have 3/4 of this map pool? These maps have either been around for years or have been proven to be imbalanced. So why are they still in the map pool? Worse case scenario you pick up a new map, something fresh and say it turns out imbalanced. Well, Metro is imbalanced for Zerg? Ohana is WonWonWon map? Entombed is 11/11 map? Players can veto if they absolutely need to. Also, it's your team league, if you bring in a new map that is imbalanced for a certain race then maybe (just like in proleague!) you'll see the teams only use certain races on certain maps.
MLG --------------
MLG is another huge tournament that can easily force new maps in 2013 for their tournaments to try to spice things up. I hope they don't let us down because if we get another year of Antiga, Daybreak, Entombed, Metropolis, Ohana or TDA I don't know how much more sc2 I will want to watch from MLG. (Did you know I just listed off their entire map pool from the fall championship minus Cloud Kingdom?) Hell, it was just last Summer, MLG was still using Shakuras in their map pool. Yes, the same map that was around when WoL came out. Glad I got to watch the same map get played for 2+ years!
IEM --------------
At least we can rely on IEM to make some changes right??? Nope, their first tournament of 2013 and it's still the same old map pool. Well, at least they are using whirlwind, that's a little different right? /yawn
Antiga Shipyard Cloud Kingdom Daybreak Entombed Valley Metropolis Ohana Whirlwind
Proleague --------------
I'm a map maker for sc2 and when Proleague released their new maps they were using for their season, my jaw hit the floor. I thought they were trash. Some of the worst imbalanced maps ever. Yet guess what? I, and many others, love watching games played on these maps because they aren't the same maps we've seen for years. They aren't the same strategies used for years. People try out innovated strategies on them. People Cheese, People Macro, People entertain on them. Hell, when TDA, Antiga or Ohana come up next on Proleague I minimize it (unless it's a player I really want to watch) because guess what, who gives a shit about TDA? That map hit it's prime 2 years ago, let it die already. Ohana? Great, WonWonWon incoming! That's only been happening for a year now and at this rate we've got at least another year (maybe 2!) before it will die off.
GSL --------------
GSL has been the best tournament to watch, not only because it has the highest level of competition but because it actually changes it map pool....slowly....I still believe they need to get rid of Entombed, Antiga and Daybreak and bring in 3 new maps, but at least they bring in something new every season. I'm looking forward to their announcement of their 2013 Season map pool and I hope we're not disappointed with the same maps we've seen for years.
NASL --------------
NASL was actually fairly good with their map pool imo, they changed it up a good chunk season to season. Just looking from Season 3 to Season 4 for instance the only maps that stayed the same were Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak & Ohana. I'm hoping Season 5 we see more changes to the map pool, maybe get rid of CK, Daybreak and Ohana this time which means they'd completely change their map pool in 2 seasons, which is great. I just hope they keep updating their maps and don't freeze their map pools for the next few seasons because even though they changed up their map pool almost completely, they changed it to maps we've already been seeing for years.
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There are plenty of maps out there and plenty of websites you can use to check out these new maps. That or just PMing the people that make the map threads on TL or Reddit and I'm sure they will be more then happy to help you out. Check out:
http://sc2melee.net/maps/
It's a great website and easily let's you browse through maps and see what people think of them. Hell, a tournament could (and should) randomly take 3 of the top 10 rated maps here and add them to their map pools and think of how much that would spice up your tournament. I hope the bigger organizations this year add some more flavor to their map pools rather then just giving us what works. Viewers and players are getting sick of watching and playing on the same maps, so please, 2013 is here, give us something new.
TLDR Tournaments, replace your terrible map pools and add some new flavor.
Thank you so damn much for this post. I will continue to bump and upvote every post I see on this topic. The map pool is holding starcraft 2. Because of Kespa's new maps (well, remakes) I actually payed to watch Proleague despite not having much time for it, just to show I support new maps. Though TDA and Ohana are a pain, I suppose they wanted to include one or two ladder maps to add some familiarity.
I do feel that the current map pool is a huge factor in holding back players and the community from finding new ways to play the game and push the meta forward with new ideas and ways to work things.
They should change maps faster. Maps like Antiga Shipyard or Ohana are just bad for certain matchups. There must be a lot of maps, which are more balanced and new/better for our eyes.
On January 03 2013 09:56 Abstinence wrote: So true. I really hope tournaments try to phase out a lot of the 3-4base turtle maps.
I don't even really mind if there are 3-4 base turtle maps in the map pool, I'd just like them to be updated constantly. When one of the 3-4 base turtle maps is Metropolis and it's been in map pools since Jan 2012 (exactly 1 year.) it gets extremely boring to watch. Heck, even though Whirlwind is a 3-4 base turtle map, since it was something fresh it was much more enjoyable to watch over Metropolis. Although, even now I believe Whirlwind should slowly get phased out and heck, maybe even replaced with a different 3-4 base turtle map.
On January 03 2013 09:56 Abstinence wrote: So true. I really hope tournaments try to phase out a lot of the 3-4base turtle maps.
I don't even really mind if there are 3-4 base turtle maps in the map pool, I'd just like them to be updated constantly. When one of the 3-4 base turtle maps is Metropolis and it's been in map pools since Jan 2012 (exactly 1 year.) it gets extremely boring to watch. Heck, even though Whirlwind is a 3-4 base turtle map, since it was something fresh it was much more enjoyable to watch then Metropolis. Although, even now I believe Whirlwind should slowly get phased out.
What would you consider the optimal lifespan for a map supposing that there are no important balance issues? Personally I would say between 4 to 10 months depending on how many differents playstyles are commonly used.
Before I even opened this I was hoping it would be about maps. Thank you good sir ^^
You see all these "the sky is falling" threads but few really ever try to examine how god awfully stagnant the map pools have become as a reason for declining interest in sc2. I really have to commend Proleague for growing some balls and trying to innovate a bit.
Couldn't agree more. Of course, I don't want a ton of different maps for every tournament(to much stress for the players). But a fresh new pool would be great to see. I really like watching Proleague with their new maps.
be careful with the wishes couse next season we may have each tournament-league to have a complitely different map pool, which would not be so good for multileague players
At this point I think they just don't care. Hundreds of hours have been spent trying to explain to them why their maps suck and all we get is shitty excuses. I have frankly gave up at this point.
I'd imagine the trend among the general public/community would continue as far as wanting new maps. I echo the thoughts on if the new maps are imba, who cares? The old ones have proven to be exploited by now when you give people years on end to play the same maps over and over.
...Only one reason I don't see this being realistic. I think there's little to no chance we get many new maps in the near future. The expansion pack coming...I have a feeling we won't see dramatic change until that comes out. I get the impression map making for WoL is on the decline.
I remember Day9, Nony, among others, used to comment and ask tournaments (through shows, not directly) to only use a small number, of familiar maps. We get this and we're not happy?
I do agree though, these maps are getting quite boring.
I feel another aspect of introducing fresh maps into a league, especially a team league, is that players have to make a concerted effort to become familiar with the new maps or else perform badly. In a sense, players have to respect your league more because the familiar grind on the ladder will not work because these maps will not be your regular ladder maps.
On January 03 2013 10:03 BrokenMirage wrote: What would you consider the optimal lifespan for a map supposing that there are no important balance issues? Personally I would say between 4 to 10 months depending on how many differents playstyles are commonly used.
Yeah, I could see somewhere between 4 and 10 months depending on the map. For instance Cloud Kingdom I'm not complaining about too much because you can see so many different playstyles on this map that it is usually must more enjoyable to watch. Maps like Metropolis though just get extremely boring after a long time, so a shorter time they are in the pool the better.
On January 03 2013 10:05 Vertitto wrote: be careful with the wishes couse next season we may have each tournament-league to have a complitely different map pool, which would not be so good for multileague players
This could happen, but then maybe certain players would practice harder for certain map pools to hopefully do better at the specific tournaments. Also, practicing on maps isn't as tough as it use to be, especially with pretty much all pro players are on teams to practice if they need it.
On January 03 2013 10:10 Zenbrez wrote: I remember Day9, Nony, among others, used to comment and ask tournaments (through shows, not directly) to only use a small number, of familiar maps. We get this and we're not happy?
I do agree though, these maps are getting quite boring.
It's fine to get tournaments to use a small number of familiar maps, but when it's the same small number of familiar maps for the past year it gets very dull.
On January 03 2013 10:10 Zenbrez wrote: I remember Day9, Nony, among others, used to comment and ask tournaments (through shows, not directly) to only use a small number, of familiar maps. We get this and we're not happy?
I do agree though, these maps are getting quite boring.
I mean there has to be a limit. Daybreak has been in the gsl since August of 2011.....
It was a beautiful map for a long time. Many loved it. I foamed out the mouth when it came to the ladder. But enough is enough. It's now going the way of metalopolis and shakuras.
Antiga and Entombed iirc have been floating around in leagues since the beginning of 2012. Time to refresh.
Tal'darim still rears its head since being introduced in early 2011.
Is the map making scene really so bad we can't find suitable replacements at this point? I think not
EPT
