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On December 05 2012 05:31 Exquisite wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:25 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 05 2012 05:24 Exquisite wrote:On December 05 2012 05:21 ElMeanYo wrote:
How about making fungal only root ground units? It doesn't make much sense for fungal to stop air units anyways.
This way Zerg can still damage air fleets with fungal but can't chain fungal them. Dropships and Warp Prisms can get away while still taking damage. Mutas and Vikings can not all die to a few fungals... a player could react to a fungal by moving away or spitting them before the second fungal. That would dramatically affect ZvZ in a negative way. Mutas might not just be a gimmicky, timing-based ZvZ strategy then? Keep in mind a good fungal will still do alot of damage to them. Yea I mean 1 fungal takes out 25% of a mutas health (correct me if im mistaken) but with out the root and because fungals dont stack, it'd be near impossible to get 4 consecutive fungals on a pack of mutas. And the muta timing attack strat relies on the infestor player wasting fungals on the mutas anyway so that there are less fungals to be used on the incoming roaches.
I think your right about 25%. I would just like mutas to become viable again in ZvZ without the huge risk of getting them all chain-fungaled. If you significantly invest in mutas and this happens to you, it's pretty much gg.
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On December 05 2012 05:35 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:30 WhiteSatin wrote:
These changes are OK but definitely not enough.
I think the range should have been nerfed even one more point.
Also, they should buff the ghost and bring it back to how it was before.
Blizzard is taking now super-baby-steps compared to nerfing stuff to oblivion like they used to do, which is good, but the fact that they are taking THESE baby steps now is actually ridiculous. I lost faith in the balance team :/ Oh come on. This is getting silly. Before when they nerfed stuff fast it was the "let the game develop blizzard!" and now they said ok, we will play it your way and take our sweet time and try to not break even more stuff its "stop taking baby steps, nerf everything in the ground!" Some people are never happy it seems.
Can't please everyone!
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Great idea I think, this has the potential to fix ZvT/P dramatically, especially ZvT now that Ravens are more viable from the get-go. I think the Fungal nerf is a little too small, but who knows, dropping range from 9 to 8 is fairly big, and maybe Protoss and Terrans can deal with BL/Infestor a bit better. I like the IT egg nerf, it makes eggs finally weak enough to break with a Psi Storm or a few Colossi or two Tank shots with +1, and these are things that should be had by the Infestor stage. Overall, Blizzard is taking the right steps to change Zerg.
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its a good solution to help esports until hots arrives, which will be the usual initial mess =)
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On December 05 2012 05:34 NOOBALOPSE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:15 Alryk wrote:
Woah, this is interesting. I dunno if a 1 range reduction will do much, but I like the IT and raven seeker missile changes. It will because now it's lower than feedback and EMP.
You can still snare an HT before it can feedback by casting at it when it's just beyond max casting range. 8 range + 2 radius is greater than 9 range and 0 radius.
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On December 05 2012 05:00 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 04:55 Kyrao wrote:
I think that people worried about this being a huge buff to ravens are forgetting that it still requires 125 energy to use one HSM. HTs for instance would hugely benefit from not having to research storm, since it only requires 75 energy. Ravens will still need to sit around waiting for another 50 energy once they pop... and that's after you get the Corvid reactor upgrade.
The limiting factor for raven usage late-game is two-fold: High energy requirements on all abilities and the need for dedicated infrastructure.
Unless you want to only make a single raven at a time, you would have two otherwise idle tech labs on starports anyway. Just take a miniute to think about this for a second... it's not that people were having trouble because they're sitting around with high-energy ravens just waiting for the upgrade to finish. This change does very little to buff the raven other than encourage people to use them more because of a perceived buff to the unit.
It's not that you just need a starport with tech lab to produce them, you have to get the tech lab to even start the corvid reactor (energy) upgrade in preparation for making them... The whole design of the unit and it's associated tech path is poorly constructed. Its true that a raven switch isn't much easier to execute, but as a terran player I am pretty excited to see what just 1-2 ravens can accomplish in the early and midgame. Its just a little more incentive for terran players to keep a tech lab on their starport and keep producing banshees and ravens past the early game harass.
You'll have to sacrifice either tanks or upgrades to spend gas on ravens. It will be interesting to see if people can make that work.
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They do not address the main issue, as usual.
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I really feel like mutas will be phased out from ZvT with the raven buff...
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On December 05 2012 05:41 EnhancedZ wrote:
I really feel like mutas will be phased out from ZvT with the raven buff...
I thought mutas were faster than seeker missile? plus you can just split off the one muta that was targeted
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On December 05 2012 05:41 EnhancedZ wrote:
I really feel like mutas will be phased out from ZvT with the raven buff...
I really feel that you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Fi-fucking-nally! Took far too long and tarnished the otherwise great IPL and GSL a bit, but at least the changes seem good. Hope for a lot more Muta-Ling-Baneling ZvT, Muta ZvP / ZvZ and more diversity in general now. Though I dont know if it will do much in ZvZ, it makes it a bit harder to catch the Mutas but if it happens it is still the same.
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On December 05 2012 05:39 DidYuhim wrote:
They do not address the main issue, as usual.
They didn’t address your main issue, but they got mine. I am pumped for NASL now and might even dive back into the ladder.
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It's a shame Blizzard is putting all of their Terran buffs into the Raven. It's a cool unit, but I'm not sure how much just getting rid of the upgrade will get it into play. I'm sure it will help Terrans at lower levels, at least, who aren't going to be facing Zergs who can actually micro their Broodlords under pressure like Hyun, but I still think it could use some changes to its energy mechanics. I understand why they wouldn't want a single Raven to be able to save up enough energy to shoot a HSM AND put down a PDD or just to shoot 2 HSMs, but if there could be some way for the Raven to say, regenerate energy faster, that could be amazing. Perhaps bake the +25 starting energy upgrade into the unit so we could potentially see some cool earlyish Raven turret harass, and make the energy upgrade one that allows a 1.5x modifier on energy regen.
...Alternately, restoring some Snipe damage to Ghosts would still be much appreciated. >_>
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On December 05 2012 05:41 EnhancedZ wrote:
I really feel like mutas will be phased out from ZvT with the raven buff...
As someone who tried seeker missiles vs mutas often enough, let me tell you how to counter it:
Select all your mutas. Fly directly into the terran air. Congratulations, you just killed all the hostile air (And ground units below it) due to friendly fire of the seeker missiles.
Additionally as shown many times now, the only effect of the removal of the upgrade is that you dont have to spend 150/150. While that is appreciated, you really cant tell me that makes a serious difference. Seeker missiles do not become available faster without the upgrade.
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On December 05 2012 05:35 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:30 WhiteSatin wrote:
These changes are OK but definitely not enough.
I think the range should have been nerfed even one more point.
Also, they should buff the ghost and bring it back to how it was before.
Blizzard is taking now super-baby-steps compared to nerfing stuff to oblivion like they used to do, which is good, but the fact that they are taking THESE baby steps now is actually ridiculous. I lost faith in the balance team :/ Oh come on. This is getting silly. Before when they nerfed stuff fast it was the "let the game develop blizzard!" and now they said ok, we will play it your way and take our sweet time and try to not break even more stuff its "stop taking baby steps, nerf everything in the ground!" Some people are never happy it seems.
Especially as there have been other changes that sounded really harmless (f.e. immortals +1 range, queens+2 range) and had quite a huge impact. I'm really excited for the weeks to come 
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On December 05 2012 04:45 azzih wrote:
Infestor for sure is too strong in certain szenarios and maybe in the lategame. But against some tactics every nerf to infestors will be huge.
Like Protoss Sentry-Immortal-allin or a mech-terran especially in midgame. Both really hard to deal with, already right now. It will be even harder to handle after that nerfs.
Infestors wont help with immortal sentry ever anyways, unless youre facing silver league immortal sentry allins, you cant get infestors in time anyways.
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Thank god i am silver level zerg, probably won't even notice it
But will be interesting to see on pro level.
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On December 05 2012 04:59 PolskaGora wrote:
Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet is that the 1/1/1 vs. Protoss could be a lot more deadly now. Say the terran decides to get 3 ravens with HSM instead of banshees, it might be very hard to deal with. But I guess we won't know until the change hits live and people start experimenting.
Your 1-1-1 will be so delayed it will be pointless.
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way to break all the fucking replays from novemeber, blizzard you fucks
User was warned for this post
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EPT
