With the end of WoL only a few months away, who would you put on your Mount Rushmore for each race when we think back to the days of Wings of Liberty?
For me, I'd go:
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing
Probably the easiest for me. The four Terrans with the most money, and they've all either won a GSL title or been in a lot of them. Mvp, Polt and MKP have been around the top of SC2 since the start of SC2, and MMA came on a bit later to win a few GSTL's and two GSL's.
Protoss: MC, ?, ?, ?
Yeah, I have no clue. MC and three guys. There are tons of guys you could put there. You figure it out.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, Stephano
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
This is a great idea. I'd go Mvp, MarineKing, and MMA for Terran. NesTea, Stephano, and DongRaeGu for Zerg. MC, PartinG, and HerO for Protoss. Pulled these strait from the SC2Earnings for each race Edit: Shit... there have to be 4 for each.
Terran: BitByBit, Marine, SCV, SCV Self explanatory~ Protoss: MC, White-Ra, Squirtle, Naniwa Naniwa get's a place for all the controversy. White-ra for the WP 4-gate win against MC. Zerg: Leenock, Life, Symbol, Dimaga Dimaga because he owned Nestea with a 10 pool drone pull.
Zerg: NesTea DRG Stephano Leenock (Fruitdealer was the first champion but i just dont feel like he was as influential in how the game was played as these 4. sorry FD)
Protoss: MC, PartinG, Seed, Creator (Squirtle needs to win something; maybe HerO. this one is tough too)
On December 04 2012 05:34 Kakaru2 wrote: MMA 2 times GSL champion? I remember he only won once and got destroyed by Polt the second time.
Blizzard Cup is counted as a GSL by Gom. He got a pin for it
IMO for toss aside from MC it should be PartinG, Rain, and NaNiwa Parting because he won BWC Rain because he won OSL and is a top tier toss atm NaNiwa because he's the best foreign toss player and had some really good runs in the GSL
I think you probably shouldn't leave DRG out of the Zerg listing, though. It's a tough call, though. Obviously NesTea has to be on there, and FruitDealer is really tempting because he won't define any future expansions, and he really did define Wings of Liberty back when it was... you know. (I'm not going to lie, I still associate "Wings of Liberty" with the Terran-favored metagame from around when it was released.)
Here are a couple nominations for the Mount Protoss Rushmore: MC - Agreed. Genius - Blizzcon champ, constantly in Code S, still relevant even up to 2012. HuK - Always a top finisher at foreign events, and reasonably strong in GSL. Well, until recently. I guess the case for Naniwa is equally strong with his MLG performances. HerO - two-time Dreamhack champ, lots of strong performances, still on the upswing InCa - his can be the invisible Dark Templar face next to the others.
On December 04 2012 05:30 Fionn wrote: With the end of WoL only a few months away, who would you put on your Mount Rushmore for each race when we think back to the days of Wings of Liberty?
For me, I'd go:
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing
Probably the easiest for me. The four Terrans with the most money, and they've all either won a GSL title or been in a lot of them. Mvp, Polt and MKP have been around the top of SC2 since the start of SC2, and MMA came on a bit later to win a few GSTL's and two GSL's.
Protoss: MC, ?, ?, ?
Yeah, I have no clue. MC and three guys. There are tons of guys you could put there. You figure it out.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, Stephano
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
parting and seed at least deserve a spot and HuK for being the only foreign toss you really do well in GSL for a good amount of time
Leenock doesnt deserve that spot DRG deserves it alot more or life since hes the first ever royal roader
MC, Seed, Squirtle, Creator Ok, Seed is debatable, but he is one of the two P GSL champs, so he is set imo. Squirtle and Creator for basically inventing the whole P metagame for the last year+.
Terran- Mvp, MKP, Polt, MMA These four are the pinnacle of Terran really, all won major events, three are GSL winners (MKP is Kong), have been on top of the scene since 2010 and probably the posterboys for Terrans really.
Protoss- MC, HerO, HuK, Parting MC requires no explanation, while HerO is one of the most entertaining and skilled Protosses around. HuK saved foreigner face back then, and PartinG for being so soulful :p
Zerg- DRG, Stephano, NesTea, Leenock DRG is possibly the greatest Zerg result-wise (counting out NesTea's GSLs), Stephano is the only bright light for foreigners currently, NesTea is god, and Leenock has the distinction of being young and an octopus.
I really wanted to put a TSL Zerg, but I just don't see them doing anything major until HoTS. Terran one was really easy, and Protoss was more mixed, I had to decide between results and personality (but personality won out).
MC PartinG HerO Hongun (just kidding, I'll take Squirtle)
FruitDealer Nestea Stephano DongRaeGu
You could make an argument for either Genius or Rain instead of Squirtle but Squirtle seemed a safer choice to me. Funnily enough MaNa has won more money than anyone but MC/PartinG/HerO.
I hope nicopower5000 (the guy who makes Starcraft propaganda pictures) will make the most popular. Imo Terran : Mvp, Mkp, Polt or Mma Protoss: MC, Parting, Hero or Huk(depends if you want some foreigner) Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Stephano, Leenock
I'd put Parting in the protoss pantheon. He was the only one, pre 111 nerf (aka immortal buff), who emerged and found new ways to play protoss, he's an important part of protoss evolution.
MVP: He's sort of good MMA: Formerly son of Boxer n such, gsl champ, legendary TvZ, etc. MKP: Massive amount of fans....guess he introduced marine micro too - .- (I don't like MKP but he deserves it) Polt: Beats out Jjakji as the better gsl champ.
Protoss:
MC: Obviously. Tons of paper and great for e-sports. Double gsl champ PartinG: double world champ and created that stupid soul meme Seed: Hey you can call him Jjakji all you want but you guys on Aiur are desprate for gsl champs besides MC lol Creator: Isn't he responsible for like, a shitload of protoss innovation? Regardless he's bound to win something big at some point so his spot is reserved.
Zerg: Nestea: The FDR / Abraham Lincoln of Zerg Stephano: Greatest foreigner, innovative play, beloved by many Fruitdealer: Our George Washington. Won against all odds. Dongraegu: Gave us a legendary game with MMA and has too many accomplishments not to be up here.
edit: Seed or Creator could easily be replaced with Rain since he's the first OSL champ and demonstrated fantastic toss play.
I think the Terran heads will get the most agreement while Zerg has the most interesting debate. Besides MC I can't think of any Protoss who would not be out of place when compared to who made it for Terran and Zerg.
I have seen only a couple of people say Life for Zerg. I know he is a late-comer but I think being the only royal roader earns him a spot. Everything else for him makes the argument stronger but I think the royal roader thing on its own would be enough. I think Nestea has to be there too, he does have an award named after him. I see the argument for FruitDealer too. That leaves one Zerg spot, and there is still DRG, Stephano, Leenock and more. That is too hard. Maybe Stephano for being a foreigner but I would probably pick DRG; he carried MVP in the GSTL for a while and was phenomenal at ZvT.
For Protoss... MC is a must but then... I would be tempted to say Creator; he has been credited with inventing several builds and went against the idea that Protoss is about 1 or 2 base timing attacks. Maybe Hero too for his excellent use of warp prisms, and I think he was one of the first to make it work at a high level. Finally I'd say Seed. He had an incredible run in one GSL (the series against Symbol in particular) and he broke the long streak of no Protoss champion in the GSL.
Zerg is incredibly hard because once we left the Nestea/MVP era of dominance and DRG lost just enough skill to not be on that bleeding edge level of play, we got like 5 different guys, each with distinct playstyles and all roughly equal in skill. It's like someone got DRG, the complete package, and split his perfection into several imperfect fractions. I can't choose an apple over an orange!
Mvp is the best player ever and it's not even close, MMA was the second-best overall Terran, and MKP had a ton of deep runs even though he usually came up short when it counted the most.
Protoss - MC, Parting, Rain
MC is by far the most accomplished Protoss overall, Parting has been strong for a while and snagged a couple big trophies lately, and Rain already has two really big accomplishments under his belt, including being the winner of the only SC2 OSL so far.
Zerg - Nestea, DRG, Leenock
Nestea was the smartest Zerg by a wide margin for a long stretch of time, as evidenced by his 3 GSL trophies and a mirror matchup that was for a time literally unbeatable. DRG showed us what a pure mechanical Zerg could look like and it was scary as shit, and Leenock apparently is MC's successor in the "taking all the foreigner money" category.
Honorable mentions go to Polt and Stephano, but I feel that they're both a step below the players listed above.
Offended DRG is not on your list....Or is this because you are banned of ever speaking of DongRaeGu?
Terran: Mvp MKP MMA Polt
Protoss: MC Parting Hero Rain
Zerg NesTea DongRaeGu Leenock Stephano
The order they are in has relevance. NesTea is #1 zerg etc.
and im going to defend DRG (even though Fionn was like the only one not to include him) here because im a fan boy. 2x MLG champ, 2x runner up and 2x third place, DreamHack champ, IEM champ, GSL champ, 2nd place OSL (and in Code S for 8 straight seasons)
Fruidealer: GSL Life: GSL, MLG Leenock(although he did get 2nd) andStephano both dont haven a GSL title, which is the most prestigous tournament, and a necessity to be included as the best player of your race imo.
Plus lets be honest, Stephano plays in a lot of tournaments were there isnt a ton of competition where every Korean plays in a tournament with only Code S/A level koreans or when they go to oversea events, making it harder to win everything where Stephano can win 25k playing in a European only tournament (still hard, just not nearly as hard)
Also NesTea has only won GSL (well three of them and winning one GSL makes you a fucking god already, but my point is he has only shown the ability to win with preparation and not just by pure ownage like Leenock, Stephano, and DRG have proven they can do on any given weekend)
Why 4 from each race? If you just pick one player from each race and a random player then choices fit perfectly into the Mount Rushmore model. The answer becomes quite obvious too:
MVP, Nestea, MC, GuMiho
Bam! The true founding fathers of Starcraft II!
Edit: GuMiho is the only Random player I know to have competed in GSL. Is there someone better?
Terran: just Mvp, no one is really close contestants would be for me Polt, MMA, TaeJa and MarinKing Protoss: MC, Parting, HerO (maybe Seed as the lone Protoss GSL champion besides MC) Zerg: DRG, Nestea, Life, Leenock
On December 04 2012 06:32 KissMeRed wrote: Why 4 from each race? If you just pick one player from each race and a random player then choices fit perfectly into the Mount Rushmore model. The answer becomes quite obvious too:
MVP, Nestea, MC, GuMiho
Bam! The true founding fathers of Starcraft II!
Edit: GuMiho is the only Random player I know to have competed in GSL. Is there someone better?
Gumiho sucked when he played random. Guineapig was really the only one to kind of pull it off.
I think HuK deserves a spot for being one of the best foreign protoss, a 2 time MLG winner isn't he? I think HerO could make it too, a Dreamhack win and another one where he got really close plus some good code S finishes
Terran: MVP, MMA, MKP (The big three M's) and Polt Protoss: MC (The first good protoss), HuK (Before EG and the "slump"), Rain (Bringing protoss back), Creator (Impressive domination) Zerg: Nestea (the God), DongRaeGu (First teamleague monster), Leenock (The 1st prodigy), Life (The new prodigy)
On December 04 2012 05:34 Kakaru2 wrote: MMA 2 times GSL champion? I remember he only won once and got destroyed by Polt the second time.
2nd place in super tournament beat mvp at blizzcon finals beat drg at blizzard cup finals
I agree with the t/z list. For P I'd say MC/TLHero/Parting (will be the only wcs champion for wol ever)/Naniwa (back to back ro8 when the game is that figured out is impressive enough for me, plus has been a top foreigner throughout all of wol). No need to explain Hero, 2 dreamhack wins and having such a unique style of showing that protoss can actually be a skillful race with lots of multitasking is enough.
Terrans : Mvp, MKP, MMA, ThorZaIN. The top 3 is uncontestable, and I put ThorZaIN here because he was the first top foreigner terran, was smart enough to force an unit to be nerfed, and still is a threat to korean players.
Protoss : MC, SeeD, Creator, PartinG : MC no explanation needed. SeeD for being the 2nd protoss to win the GSL, Creator for his clutchness in teamleagues and his TSl win despite his young age. PartinG because of his recent wins and his impressive HTs based PvT from back then. Would have been Squirtle if he didn't kong that many finals.
Zergs : NesTea, DRG, Stephano, Leenock.
NesTea for being the first successful zerg despite his age, DRG for his teamleague dominance and GSL wins, Stephano for him being a top player who can compete with koreans despite being a foreigner, and Leenock for him staying on top for such a long time at a relative young age.
Terran MVP Has been an amazing player from start to current. Looking unstoppable at times, and deceivingly weak at others, but he's always has had his amazing game sense.
MKP Was very novel that he got foreign sponsorship from Reddit to attent foreign tournaments when he didn't initially do over well. At his best he can destroy anyone and his micro is utterly impressive to watch.
Polt Always brilliant macro and decision making. Can flounder at times, never looks to be the worlds best, but always keeps on providing entertaining games.
Taeja Seems to be very good for on the fly games, such as LAN events or All-kill set up team matches. Wasn't fond of his play when he was on SlayerS as he looked like a poor man's MMA, but since joining Liquid he seems to have become his own person, and now I always expect great games from him.
Protoss MC He has this weird 6th sense for things, especially on when to all-in. His micro used to be second to none, but it has gotten a lot worse recently but he always seems to manage to pull off great victories every now and then. Shame his personality has decreased a lot recently.
Socke Always enjoyed watching his games back in the days when going past 2 bases as a Protoss was a rarity. He was using HT a lot sooner than everyone else when every was still using the "imbalanced" Colossi
Parting Seemed to have come out of nowhere and just started dominating everything and every one. Great micro, great macro, great decision making.
Rain Same as above
Zerg NesTea His planned strategies, meta-game decisions usually decided the outcome of his matches. Never impressive in LAN/on the fly events but was very consistent until the Zerg change to infestors/broodlords. NesTea dominated during the time of Muta/Bane which has been figured out and hasn't had massive success since.
Stephano Try something until it fails, rely on safe/standard games. Possibly the smartest way to play unless he gets figured out.
DRG When he first came on the scene he had a weird style of always going for a macro hatch before a third, and using this extra production for counter attacks and just picked his opponents apart cost effectively until he could crush them. Again he hasn't made the switch from muta/bane to infestor/brood as well as some other Zerg's but he's doing very well.
Leenock Really enjoy his ling use/micro and his ability to adapt and use many strategies and styles of Zerg.
Terran: MVP, MMA, ThorZain, GoOdy ThorZain because of his TSL3 run where he was basically the first foreigner winning something big including koreans. GoOdy because of his playstyle which was and still is so much different from anyone else.
Protoss: MC, PartinG, HerO, Grubby PartinG because he is probably the best P right now, HerO & Grubby because of their fresh, innovative and macrooriented styles during a time where P is somewhat boring to watch.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, DRG, Stephano no comment on that.
Nestea for being one of the most successful players for that very long time where Zerg was a joke of a race. His wins always came from being smarter than his opponents and he did what no one else could. You'd always have to have your notepad ready as a Zerg player to copy whatever this guy was doing!
MVP for being the most successful WoL player! Even in the face of an injury this guy still continues to dominate. His ability to win is unmatched ! What a baws!
MC for being the only protoss to ever dominate for a long period of time! He is also a fantastic character and a treat to watch for the fans!
Stephano for being the best and most successful foreigner by far! Despite the fact that the race of foreigners are by far the weakest of all SC2 races, this guy still manages to be one of the best players out there. Truly amazing
On December 04 2012 05:44 Warlock40 wrote: There can only be three: MVP, Nestea, MC.
They're gods of their race, that's undeniable, yes. However we have some noticeable players in 2011 and 2012 as well so you should appreciate them too:D
MVP, MMA, MKP and Polt. Has to be these. MVP is the best player to play sc2, MMA has lookd invincible like no other at times (except Nestea that one crazy season), MKP has been a great player since the second season of GSL and on his way he has won two MLGs and been to several GSL finals. Polt is a GSL champion and also the one I think is best at adapting to the metagame.
MC, Seed, Parting and Huk. Huk was doing very well while still on TL, In my opinion enough to make a protoss top 4. MC and Seed both GSL-champions, and Parting has beed incredible for some time now.
Nestea, Fruitdealer, Leenock and DRG. While zerg were having trouble during the first seasons of the GSL Fruitdealer and Nestea showed us that the potential of the race was/is enormous. Leenock has always been a good player, and have had several awesome tournament runs. DRG is just awesome. This one was as obvious as the terran one for me.
On December 04 2012 07:28 o)_Saurus wrote: Terran: MVP, MMA, ThorZain, GoOdy ThorZain because of his TSL3 run where he was basically the first foreigner winning something big including koreans. GoOdy because of his playstyle which was and still is so much different from anyone else.
Protoss: MC, PartinG, HerO, Grubby PartinG because he is probably the best P right now, HerO & Grubby because of their fresh, innovative and macrooriented styles during a time where P is somewhat boring to watch.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, DRG, Stephano no comment on that.
Lol i'm sorry but the real Mt Rushmore includes the likes of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln. Now we are trying to translate the magnitude of those names into SC2 terms...
And you include GoOdy? And Grubby?
I know this is just opinion based but you honestly believe those 2 names deserve to be there? I'm not sure an "interesting" style warrants being named the top of your race. I could play an "interesting" style and never win anything significant. Definitely slot in MKP and Polt in there instead of Tzain and GoOdy. Then stick creator in there maybe?
On December 04 2012 07:38 bkrow wrote: I know this is just opinion based but you honestly believe those 2 names deserve to be there? I'm not sure an "interesting" style warrants being named the top of your race. I could play an "interesting" style and never win anything significant.
On December 04 2012 06:08 ErAsc2 wrote: Terran: Gretorp, IM mvp, Pain User, polt-prime.
Protoss: MC, EG incontrol, Liquid HuK, Artosis (Socke is close too i suppose).
Zerg: EG idra, fruit-dealer, Day 9, bkrow !
bkrow because of his interesting playstyle.
Heh, idk I put you in mine for having an interesting playstyle, guess some think it's enough, some don't.
I'm a little surprised people didn't put IdrA on their list. Sure, he was never the greatest player, but he is possibly the most famous of all. I would gladly switch Stephano for IdrA if only Stephano wasn't as good as he was.
polt makes no sense at all after any criterium. stop being so biased towards him, he's not that special. it should be only 3 guys and nobody needs to ask who I mean.
On December 04 2012 08:40 PhoenixVoid wrote: I'm a little surprised people didn't put IdrA on their list. Sure, he was never the greatest player, but he is possibly the most famous of all. I would gladly switch Stephano for IdrA if only Stephano wasn't as good as he was.
I dunno. Stephano had more viewers than IdrA and he is pretty well known. Even some friends of mine who don't play nor follow SC2 have heard of Stephano lol. Sure we are french but it's still impressive.
On December 04 2012 08:44 Greenei wrote: polt makes no sense at all after any criterium. stop being so biased towards him, he's not that special. it should be only 3 guys and nobody needs to ask who I mean.
I've never been his biggest fan, but he is on my list because he is so extremely adaptive and he always finds ways to overcome the odds! He is a multiple champion, and the manner which is destroyed massive favourite MMA in the super tournament was simply breathtaking! Also lets not forget the introduction of a certain raven-push!
On December 04 2012 08:44 Greenei wrote: polt makes no sense at all after any criterium. stop being so biased towards him, he's not that special. it should be only 3 guys and nobody needs to ask who I mean.
He's surely a top four Terran in Wings. He won a GSL, consistently good through the past two years, is still a Top 3~5 Terran, and performs well at almost every single tournament he goes to. He just placed 3rd in the most stacked weekend tournament we might have ever had.
couldnt you just do one of the surveys like you do for the GSL ro8 stats? do a poll and give like 10 choices for each race or maybe have a "other" blank for write ins
Terran: MVP, MMA, the rest are unclear -- in terms of success, Polt and MKP (would say sC too but he kept getting injured and taking breaks ;, but in heart, Boxer Ryung Ganzi. I guess you have to take into account that it's harder to play in more events and still do well, so
MVP MMA Polt and MKP it is.
Protoss: MC, Naniwa, Hero, Genius
Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Stephano, Leenock
Choices are considered based on duration of competition, extent of their domination (tournament results, tournament winnings, amount of tournaments)
Terran: MVP, MMA, Taeja (tried to discard the patchterran) Protoss: MC, Seed, Rain (was hard to pick) Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Leenock (discarded the patchzerg)
On December 04 2012 11:57 Serpico wrote: The fact we have to name so many names means no one is consistent enough to really take it. The only two I think belong are Nestea and MVP.
MC too. Basically everyone who has won more then 1 GSL.
Stephano only gets the nod for being a fantastic foreign Zerg before those became common place.
What about Idra in the good old days? I enjoyed the games he had last year in MLG when he fought Koreans. It was the most entertaining stuff... And really awefully thrilling.
On December 04 2012 11:57 Serpico wrote: The fact we have to name so many names means no one is consistent enough to really take it. The only two I think belong are Nestea and MVP.
Really? Not MC? 2 GSLs, Dreamhack, HSC, IEM, tons of other top 5 finishes. He is head and shoulders above the rest of Protoss in terms of success throughout WoL. Really only HerO comes close, but has no GSLs. MC has also been the biggest Korean personality in the foreigner scene. I think he definitely deserves to be in the realm of MVP and Nestea.
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing Zerg: Nestea, DRG, and then 2 of FruitDealer/ Leenock/ Stephano Protoss: MC, Parting, and then I'm not sure about the other two... possibly Squirtle and then one more.
Oooo love this idea. Terran: Mvp, MMA, MKP and Polt. I don't think there's gonna be much difference there for most people. Protoss: MC, Seed, PartinG, Squirtle. This was a lot more difficult. MC is obvious, Seed is one of the only two protoss GSL champions, PartinG's just won TWO world championships, and Squirtle's probably one of the most solid protoss out there. Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, DRG and Leenock. I'd put Stephano up there, but I'm not going to give him charity just because he happens to be an excellent foreign Zerg. Both DRG and Leenock have been incredibly successful, and I can't justify not giving them a spot.
On December 04 2012 12:13 Waxangel wrote: DRG considerably ahead of Leenock
Leenock=2nd GSL, IPL, MLG x2 and some world esports masters thingy, GSTL champ
Best games played against Jjakji..?
DRG=GSL champ (this might be the biggest reason), 2nd GSL(Blizzard Cup), MLG x2, 2nd OSL, DH, IEM, arguably best GSTL player ever + GSTL champ plus epic rivalries with MMA and MKP, played some of the most historic games in sc2
Not only are DRG's accomplishments better, i think the rivalries (and being GSL champ) are what really puts DRG over Leenock.
Leenock is hotter right now, but he's better with Infestors, DRG better with mutalisks hehe
Im kind of biased, but I think im right, but dont get me wrong both are Top 5 Zergs imo (Leenock number 2 in my book behind Sniper at least for a few weeks lol)
Plus Leenock is a teddy bear that did Gangnam Style once DRG speaks English, dances like a zergling, has a pretty girlfriend, and turned down Boxer.
On December 04 2012 12:13 Waxangel wrote: DRG considerably ahead of Leenock
Leenock=2nd GSL, IPL, MLG x2 and some world esports masters thingy, GSTL champ
Best games played against Jjakji..?
DRG=GSL champ (this might be the biggest reason), 2nd GSL(Blizzard Cup), MLG x2, 2nd OSL, DH, IEM, arguably best GSTL player ever + GSTL champ plus epic rivalries with MMA and MKP, played some of the most historic games in sc2
Not only are DRG's accomplishments better, i think the rivalries (and being GSL champ) are what really puts DRG over Leenock.
Leenock is hotter right now, but he's better with Infestors, DRG better with mutalisks hehe
Im kind of biased, but I think im right, but dont get me wrong both are Top 5 Zergs imo (Leenock number 2 in my book behind Sniper at least for a few weeks lol)
Plus Leenock is a teddy bear that did Gangnam Style once DRG speaks English, dances like a zergling, has a pretty girlfriend, and turned down Boxer.
Everybody thinks they're right :D
I know what you're saying though and I agree DRG is better. Good to see a lot of people in this thread remembering the past, not just who is hot now.
I remember back in early or mid 2011 before anyone knew who Stephano was, I was thinking wow this guy has a few kinks in his play (back then he did, being new to SC2) but he looks really fucking good. I figured he would emerge as a star at some point if he practiced seriously. His first notable result was beating HuK in Homestory cup and he was the first player I ever saw go heavy roach infestor. Nobody was using infestors back then, and he made it look unbeatable. Way ahead of his time. To me he's clearly one of the most innovative zergs in the history of SC2.
Not sure how I got on this short Stephano rant but whatever, lol.
I think for something like this you need to pick players that have been consistently good in multiple regions. Not just "won two or three foreign tournaments".
Terran: MVP MKP MMA. Polt is up there, but has been very streaky...most of his big wins were in Korean-light tournaments. Taeja is very close to being up there, but we'll see if Flash gets there first. MMA has been down lately, but he had such a strong history in 2011 that he's earned that spot imo.
Zerg: Nestea DRG Leenock. Not sure why people are putting Fruitdealer here, he only won 1 GSL and it was the least competitive one. I don't think Stephano has earned a place there yet, but he might in the future.
Protoss: MC...and that's it. All the other Protoss are flash-in the pan. I have hopes for Hero, Rain, and Parting. I wish Huk was up there but much like Stephano he has a ways to go.
Each one of these was a top tier Terran player through history. Polt is good but he was never really a top player. Bomber was always one of those guys who was like top 3 back then.
Zerg: NesTea, DRG, Stephano, Leenock
Leenock is debatable in my opinion but I put him there because of his sheer amount of results from stacked tournaments and the other three were revolutionary. Stephano was dominate only in the foreign scene and was never really favored against the top Koreans so I put him behind DRG. If skill wasn't the only factor, I'd probably replace Leenock with Idra.
Protoss: MC, HuK, HerO, Rain
HuK was a top tier player a year ago, HerO's been making deep runs in almost every tournament and Rain is just the most dominate Protoss player these last few tournaments. (I don't include PartinG because his run was mostly against mid tier foreigners) Neither Creator, Seed, Squirtle or PartinG's play seems dominate at all and they don't seem to possess the aura that those four had/have, though I guess that's debatable.
Terran: MVP - MMA - MKP - Taeja Taeja gets the nod over Polt because although Polt won the Super Tournament he was never the best terran in the world like Taeja was.
Zerg: Nestea - DRG - Leenock - Life Easy picks as these 4 all have multiple 'premier' tournament wins. Stephano gets left off because only in one of the tournaments he won did he actually have to face multiple elite Koreans (NASL 3)
Protoss: MC - Hero - Rain - Parting The PresidentToss is a shoe in. Hero, Rain, Parting and Creator are left to fight for 3 spots. All have impressive resumes but with asterisks. Hero won both his Dreamhacks by beating foreigners all the way and only in the finals against a Korean terran did he have a fight on his hands. Creator had an impressive WCS Korea but TSL4 was really just an online tournament and honestly doesn't deserve to be listed as a 'premier tournament.' Rain's OSL was nice but WCS Asia was all PvP. Ultimately though I left off Parting because in his combined BWC and WCG he only faced a single Korean, and that was a PvP. Seed was a one hit wonder so he didn't receive any consideration.
Mvp has the single greatest legacy in all of SC2. MMA was the son of BoxeR and was godlike during 2011, constantly fighting Mvp for the Terran throne in an era of Terran supremacy. MarineKing was consistently an incredible player, even reaching a period towards the end of the age of Terran where he could claim to be the best of the best. Mvp was always a bane for him, but he held TvZ under his iron fist until the patch and never stopped being a deadly presence. TaeJa came onto the scene as a star fairly late, but the absolute dominance, greed, and insane mico has never seen an equal, even if his frail body couldn't continue it for every match and tournament.
Protoss just hasn't been a successful race in general. MC was only the top earner because he was the original "go beat up the little foreign kids" guy, but he was able to do it with great army compositions and stellar decision making, so he is still the king. HerO got my vote because he is responsible for pretty much every Protoss metagame shift since he won his first Dreamhack, and he can do incredible things when he can control his emotions. Liquid'HuK was a star, and the heights he achieved was only matched by how he was able to bring the foreign community with him and inspire everyone. I don't think I've seen a more estatic crowd then when the newly made EG'HuK used his last ounces of Liquid magic to win MLG. Then there's NaNiwa. The biggest villain in all of SC2. What makes him so remarkable is that so many times it was NaNiwa vs the world, with the crowd, teams, and players all hating him to his very core and denying every available opportunity to improve and compete, and yet he still broke the very foundation of the world order. Mvp and NesTea beaten in the same tournament. Making it to the finals in an MLG loaded with Koreans. Back to back Code S RO8 finishes. And beating FlaSh in MLG. Kingslayer, Dragonslayer, King in the North, Godslayer. Hate him all you want, but you can't deny his accomplishments.
NesTea is god. Does that require an explanation? DongRaeGu was extremely successful, and he also had the greatest "legend" in SC2. Think of it like this; BoxeR had the greatest legend in Brood War even though FlaSh was the best. Likewise, DongRaeGu was always a player with fans, results, and narratives to his games, and there was even a large swath of 2012 where DRG WAS the best. Stephano is the greatest foreigner ever, invented the most recognizable build in SC2 (12 min max roach), introduced the ice cold confidence that makes legends in other sports, and has the skill to be the best in the world (IF HE EVER JUST ACCPETED THAT F*CKING CODE S SEED ASDFGHJKL). For this last spot, I was torn between Idra (the original villain/foreign hope), Leenock (King of MLG, most entertaining Zerg in the history of forever), and Life (youngest GSL winner ever, first true Royal Roader, and most immediate and rapid improvement of any player.) I picked Life because the skill it takes to royal road GSL and MLG is incredible, he has that same confidence that Stephano has, and I'm convinced that if WoL had lasted longer, he would've become what FlaSh was to Brood War. I think he can still do that when HotS drops, and I'm excited to watch him do it.
Also, I wanted a StarTale player on this list.
But looking at this list should show us something. So many threads are dedicated to whining about how much better Brood War was, how OP/boring sentries and infestors are, and taking another video game's success as some sort of death knell for StarCraft. I'll admit that ladder anxiety and the lack of a good social platform in WoL hurt the casual base a lot, but we've had so many magical moments in StarCraft 2's pro scene, we've made fandoms and anti-heroes, we've watched players fulfill their dreams and overcome impossible odds, we've laughed, we've cheered, and above all, we rode the flagship that proved that E-Sports is not the guilty pleasure of some nerd cult, but a form of entertainment and human stories that make for stories to last a lifetime
On December 04 2012 14:25 trGKakarot wrote: I don't get the love for FD, sure he won the first GSL (in fairly dominant fashion), but otherwise he was quite lackluster.
Unified: MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP
being the first in something deserves alot of credit so when were looking at people who deserve alot of reconition of all time its natural he gets brought up
On December 04 2012 14:25 trGKakarot wrote: I don't get the love for FD, sure he won the first GSL (in fairly dominant fashion), but otherwise he was quite lackluster.
Unified: MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP
I was under the impression how influential they are to the race plays a much bigger role in this regard rather than just results or how skilled they are. Fruitdealer earns a spot for me since he's the first Zerg and GSL champion. Won the thing when Zerg was having a very difficult time too.
Sure when you look back at WoL, you'll see numerous other Zergs that ended up being far better than Fruit ever was. Hell, but only a few weeks after he was on top of the world MKP knocked his ass out in the ro32 and Nestea did what he did in more dominating fashion and even avenged him by beating MKP. Still, his win was very memorable and he did manage to stay good for awhile before falling off. That's got to count for something.
Terran pretty much spot on. You get your face on the mountain for achievements and relevance, not style and fans and those four really are the most important. Except Mvp's head is as large as the other three combined. And MKP's head is underneath Mvp's lol
Protoss would probably be... MC, Seed (the only other toss champ matters, unfortunately), and a colossus. No fourth face, but it might be Inca, we'll never know.
Zerg are Fruitdealer (his make-up face from that weird everyone-is-a-transvestite season), Nestea, DRG and... the TSL logo.
On December 04 2012 05:43 Ettick wrote: IMO for toss aside from MC it should be PartinG, Rain, and NaNiwa Parting because he won BWC Rain because he won OSL and is a top tier toss atm NaNiwa because he's the best foreign toss player and had some really good runs in the GSL
Sorry but if youre going to put in Naniwa for those reasons, HuK outclasses him in every single way in that regard, he had similar top results in gsl, and managed to stay in code s longer than NaniWa during the protoss UP period, when there was only a handful of protoss making code s at a time, and huk has won several foreign tournaments unlike naniwa who has barely won any premier tournaments. This is a WoL thing which should be counted from the beginning of WoL, not 'who it would be now'
Terran- MMA, MKP, Mvp, and Polt This should be self-explanatory
Protoss- MC, HerO, Parting, Squirtle MC for his personality and previous dominance, HerO and Parting for their play. The only reason I put Squirtle over Seed is because he just saved Korea.
Zerg- DRG, Nestea, Stephano, Life DRG and Nestea are the two Zergs that were dominant before infestor/BL. DRG earlier this year was arguably the best player to ever appear on the pro scene. Stephano is the foreign hope, who just beat four of the best Koreans in the world back to back. He also accounts for 27 out of the 45 wins that foreigners have against Koreans in tournaments this year. Life appears to be next in line for the same spot as DRG and Nestea. His creative play styles make him potentially the best Korean zerg right now.
On December 04 2012 14:32 MateShade wrote: If youre going from the beginning of sc2 till now, based purely on GSL it would be without question (and in order):
Terran: MVP, MarineKing, MMA, Polt
Protoss: MC, Genius, Seed, Hongun
Zerg: Nestea, DRG, FruitDealer, Leenock
HOLY SHIT i forgot about hongun, my favorite protoss, until you mentioned him ;O
Seed has been out of GSL for such a long long time though, despite being a good protoss back in early WoL and winning that one GSL. But you are basing only on GSL. So since he won a GSL, then yea.
Hmm, I guess I don't really have a problem with polt being on there, but there's some revisionist history going on with him here in the op. He was not good from the start like the others. In fact he was quite terrible and jinro beat him and then jinro selected him in group selection the next season because he was bad. However, polt went on to beat jinro and became good from that point on and the rest is history. However, I would probably put bomber on there over polt. Bomber doesn't have a gsl win like polt, but his peak play is better. The problem is bomber's rule means he can go from gosu to chobo from one game to the next.
Protoss: MC, Genius, PartinG, HuK MC is a no brainer. Genius is a no brainer in my opinion as well. HuK best three unit control! PartinG and HuK though have both had a great impact on the scene and PartinG continues to do so. (Protoss seems to be lackin' in the options of true faces of the game!)
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing Mvp is a no brainer. MMA's performance in 2011 was just stellar. Polt is a GSL champion and an exceptionally strong Terran, even in the sea of overwhelmin' Zerg qq he still shows strong. MarineKing is MarineKing; there is no disputin' the rise of FoxeR.
Zerg: Life, DongRaeGu, Nestea, Fruitdealer Life was the first royal roader and followed up his GSL victory with an MLG Dallas 2012 victory. DongRaeGu broke out onto the scene with a grand entrance in GSTL. I remember watchin' him the first time ever and couldn't get enough of his 80%+ win ratios at the beginnin' of his GSTL career. Nestea was the unstoppable Zerg and has won almost as many GSL titles as Mvp (though he's been to the finals less, but he's never lost a finals). Fruitdealer is the true face of Zerg for the start of StarCraft 2. Winner of the first GSL and his amazin' game versus Hopetorturer just provin' how much of a genius he was.
Random: TLO, Apollo, GuineaPig, GuMiho Come on, these are the real faces of StarCraft! They played every race!
Casters: Grubby, Day[9], djWheat, Kevin "Catspajamas" Knocke
Terran: MVP, MMA, MKP, and Polt All winners of GSL and MKP who might as well be a champion.
Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Leenock, and Life GSL > all of Stephano's achievements.
Protoss: MC, Seed, Rain, and Parting The 3 champions and the man with endless soul.
Honorable mentions include Taeja, HerO, Naniwa, HuK, Squirtle, Creator, Genius, FruitDealer, IdrA, and Jinro.
Also the real Mount Rushmore of SC2 is Mvp, MC, Nestea, MKP.
On December 04 2012 14:32 MateShade wrote: If youre going from the beginning of sc2 till now, based purely on GSL it would be without question (and in order):
Terran: MVP, MarineKing, MMA, Polt
Protoss: MC, Genius, Seed, Hongun
Zerg: Nestea, DRG, FruitDealer, Leenock
I dunno, royal roading like Life did is better than Leenock's GSL stuff imo.
MC: of course, President Toss, even in his slumps your scared of him White Ra: the grandpa of Toss, with his unique style and harassment when protoss (warp paper prism) wasnt the norm Squirtle:Another consistent Protoss player, very dangerous bringing one of my most memorable moments to a GSL finals (mvp vs squirtle vortex on the mass bc
Last slot, hard to fill this last spot, its just seems protoss pros drop off after there 15 minutes of fame, I would say it would have to got to one of these Naniwa, Parting, Creator, Hongun (how can I not use hongun when he he brought a carrier rush to gsl) Seed maybe
Everyone mentioned has changed the foundational way their race was perceived and played and/or achieved a pinnacle that no one could ever touch (Huk's 2010-2011 results, Stephano's 2011-2012 results).
MVP - The first SC2 bonjwa, 7th in Starcraft as a whole. MARINEKING - One of SC2's biggest upsets ever would be if this guy never got his GSL title. MMA - TvZ was the flagship match of Wings of Liberty at its peak, and this man was the maestro. POLT - Champion of many things, intelligent, never gives up, and handsome.
ZERG
NESTEA - The Overmind of the Universe, the only player with an award named after him. DONGRAEGU - DRG is to Z as MMA is to T (see above), Most solid Zerg, Best GSTL player ever LEENOCK - The cute Octopus who promises the most entertaining games STEPHANO - The foreigner Overlord, the hope, the star, the only true foreigner that went toe-to-toe with top Koreans before the "patch"
PROTOSS
MC - God Tier Baller and Entertainer HERO - He has everything, and he's probably the most consistent PARTING - He's noticeably changed Protoss the most, and he's top 3 Protoss micro - really. HUK - Liquid, not EG.
MVP is to WoL, what James Brown is to soul, he is the king. I still have yet to find the Boxer-Nada GSL VOD but I saw some of it, it was impressive to say the least. To this day, I am still hearing things about TLO and his Terran play, his Terran stream made me laugh SO hard. Jjakji, for me, represented all the new talent that evolved the way the game was played.
Protoss: MC, Seed, Squirtle, Hero.
Boss. Toss. Seed has a very intimidating style, he is incredibly unpredictable. Squirtle played one of the best matches I have ever witnessed. Hero is in a league of his own, not quite a GSL champion, but a champion everywhere else.
Zerg: Nestea, Leenock, Idra, Stephano.
Nestea. Leenock is possibly the best Zerg in the world, I shudder every time he sets of a Baneling mine, and are thankful it is not me on the receiving end. Idra is really more of a symbol, he represents all that is foreign and gosu, like Abraham Lincoln. Stephano is crazy. Don't ever insult Stephano in poster form.
On December 04 2012 14:25 trGKakarot wrote: I don't get the love for FD, sure he won the first GSL (in fairly dominant fashion), but otherwise he was quite lackluster.
Unified: MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP
I was under the impression how influential they are to the race plays a much bigger role in this regard rather than just results or how skilled they are. Fruitdealer earns a spot for me since he's the first Zerg and GSL champion. Won the thing when Zerg was having a very difficult time too.
Sure when you look back at WoL, you'll see numerous other Zergs that ended up being far better than Fruit ever was. Hell, but only a few weeks after he was on top of the world MKP knocked his ass out in the ro32 and Nestea did what he did in more dominating fashion and even avenged him by beating MKP. Still, his win was very memorable and he did manage to stay good for awhile before falling off. That's got to count for something.
I may be wrong (which is fine), but FD won by playing incredibly unorthodox. His unpredictability allowed him to pull off crazy wins in situations when his opponents were unsure how to handle all-ins or playing ridiculously greedy. It was purely circumstantial to there not being proper build orders to punish either play (IMO). The way Zerg was played was not fundamentally changed by his play style.
MKP lead the way in how TvZ was played for a solid 1.5 years; MVP showed us how powerful a macro Terran with nearly flawless game sense could truly be; Nestea played a perfect season, winning two seasons in a row even, purely amazing, his ZvX was nearly perfect and has been the way Zerg was played for 1.5 years; MC showed us that timing attacks can be so brutal the game looks laughably broken.
All four of these players defined the way their races/MUs were played for essentially all of WoL (up to the infestor/BL switch). FD won the first GSL and never shaped the meta-game beyond that point (from what it seemed to me), and faded away.
Terran: MVP, MMA, MKP and usually Polt Protoss: MC, Seed and some other guys Zerg: Nestea, DRG and then Stephano/Leenock/Fruitdealer fighting out the last couple of spots.
Terran: MVP, MMA, Marineking, and Polt. - I really wanted to mix it up from these four, but how can you? Taeja maybe, but he's only been top-notch for a half year. These guys have been good since forever.
Protoss: MC, Parting, Naniwa, and Rain. - MC is the pretty obvious choice, ever the entertainer and only Protoss to win multiple GSLs. - Parting because he revolutionized two matchups with his early templar play against Terran, and the wonwonwon against Zerg. - Naniwa is the best foreigner in my eyes, with 2 ro8 in the GSL, plus quite a few high finishes in other tournaments. Plus with his rivalry with Nestea for a time, who can ever forget him calling Nestea an idiot? - Rain is the first SC2 OSL champion, the flag bearer for KeSPA in SC2, and a remarkable player overall.
Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Life, Stephano - Nestea is the creator of the universe. That's all that needs to be said. - DRG was a master of ZvT at its peak, been consistently one of the best, even getting to the OSL finals in his "slump" - I had to go with Life over Leenock, they play somewhat similarly, but to be GSL's first royal roader at the AGE OF 15 is remarkable. Not to mention he beat Leenock at MLG grand finals. - Stephano, the best foreigner and one of the most polarizing players in SC2.
How can you let out Creator for protoss? He is the guy that reinvented PvT for nearly everyone. And DRG has been the most stable Zerg player since mid 2011. Terran: MVP, MKP, Polt, MMA Protoss: MC, Parting, Creator, Huk Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Stephano, Leenock
No matter who is carved on the mountain for Protoss, Inca will be there. You just can't see him. (Oblig joke.)
Terran... MVP (obviously), MKP, Polt, Taeja Zerg... Nestea, Stephano, DRG, Hyun (There's always one guy there that just doesn't seem to match. Hyun's the Teddy Roosevelt.) Protoss... MC, HerO, Parting (for the soul), Creator (because PRIME, dammit.)
Also, in all of these carvings, one must place one face above them all, looking down. ST_Legend, the Observer.
For Zerg, I want to include DRG, but not sure who I'd boot. Stephano maybe? Fruitdealer and Nestea can't go anywhere!
Protoss is harder, but I'll give it a shot:
MC (of course), Parting, HerO, and...... Creator?
I don't think that I can put down Seed since I fear that he won't last. I would have loved to put Oz since I'm a big fan, but I just can't do it. Creator might not have the biggest winnings, but I think he made a bigger impression than a lot of other protoss - but that's pretty debatable I know.
For terrans it seems pretty straight forward: MVP, MMA, MKP, Polt I guess you could make a case for either Taeja or Bomber over MKP or Polt, but I just don't see it.
For zerg there are more options. I'm a bit suprised to see so many leaving out DRG. Imo he's the second guy after Nestea up there. The next guy is probably Leenock, and then Stephano gets the last spot. Stephano might not have quite the results of the other three, but he's changed the way people play zerg as much as anyone. I'm just not feeling Fruitdealer. He got lucky first time out and then never did anything ever again. He started Code S by getting knocked out in R032 a few times, then eventually managed a single Ro16... and got knocked straight down to Code B. Nestea, DRG, Leenock, Stephano
The protoss choice is the hardest. For a long time there was only MC, so obviously he's the safe choice. Since this is a monument over all of WoL I really think Genius deserves a spot. He's not only managed to stay in Code S the most consecutive seasons of any protoss he's also managed to stay relevant the entire time. The next one isn't based on results as much as influence. Creator has changed the way protoss is played so many times it's crazy, oh yeah, and he's 15 years old! He might not be the most accomplished, but without him, the game might look quite different. He deserves a spot. The last spot is probably between Rain and Parting. Rain lead the elephants in their transition over to SC2, and he won the single WoL OSL. And then he dropped out of GSL to go and lose at MLG... I think Parting gets it, for winning the last WCG (I know, lol) and of course WCS/BWC, the biggest tournament in all of WoL. MC, Genius, Creator, Parting
On December 04 2012 14:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: holy shit i totally forgot about sangho/killer... he looked so strong at one point, didn't notice he's not in GSL anymore ;;
Never forget!
Actually he's probably out there somewhere right now picking up the girl you wish you were dating
I think you guys are missing the point of "Mt. Rushmore" of Starcraft. Fruitdealer was THE man when he won the first Code S in the fucking sea of Terrans. They made him a friggin portrait. He is the 1st, the revolutionary George Washington, and he is most definitely should be on the zerg Mt. Rush. Seriously? Leenock? Life? They are way better than Fruitdealer ever was but that's not the point. They don't represent milestones in the Zerg race. They are just good players riding the wave.
Terran: Easily the 4 mentioned MVP, MMA, MKP, Polt. They all represent major points of Terran domination or play. I think Polt is a point of contention but noone is worthy of taking his place.
Zerg: Fruitdealer, Nestea, Stephano, DRG. These guys are all highly significant in Zerg history/domination and were all "the best" at some point in time.
Protoss: MC, HuK, HerO, Parting. MC is a given, HuK is the only protoss foreigner to have consistently made waves back when he was relevant, Hero is 2 time DH winter winner and imo one of the first to really use multi-pronged harass with WP/HT/sentry, and Parting because of his revolutionary builds.
On December 05 2012 00:24 jakethesnake wrote: I can't argue with your Terran picks Fionn.
For Zerg, I want to include DRG, but not sure who I'd boot. Stephano maybe? Fruitdealer and Nestea can't go anywhere!
Protoss is harder, but I'll give it a shot:
MC (of course), Parting, HerO, and...... Creator?
I don't think that I can put down Seed since I fear that he won't last. I would have loved to put Oz since I'm a big fan, but I just can't do it. Creator might not have the biggest winnings, but I think he made a bigger impression than a lot of other protoss - but that's pretty debatable I know.
I also have my doubts about how good Seed will be in the near future, but I guess it depends on what criteria you use for picking the heads for Mount Rushmore. If you want it to be along the lines of a Hall of Fame, instead of simply who was the best, then I think Seed deserves a spot. He ended the Protoss drought in GSL (beating MC of all people in the final).
This is also why I would put in Life for his royal road accomplishment. He hasn't been the most influential zerg but his achievement will be remembered.
Terran- MVP, MKP, Polt, Taeja, MMA. To me all of these guys have contributed to how Terran is played right now and they have all inspired my play. MVP just wins, and lives up to being IM's MVP. MMA while he has fallen off had some sick gameplay early on in WoL. Taeja is able to win at anytime and its awesome despite how weak terran can be. and polt is just awesome. Protoss- Huk, MC, HerO, Parting, Naniwa MC is a winner he is always a name people will list as a potential winner of a tournament. HuK and Naniwa at times can be korean killers and have done great for foreigners in GSL. Granted they are not the most consistent players. Naniwa works so hard, and I just love watching this guy play. Parting....came up with own zerg everytime build, and he is pretty good at the game.
Zerg- Idra, Stephano, Nestea, DRG, Leenock. Why idra? Well lets face it guy has one of the biggest fan bases, and at the start of WoL the guy wasn't that bad. Idra has had some big wins and honestly the community wants idra to exist and play the game because you need to love/hate someone right? Idra for a long time carried the flag for Foreigners vs Koreans. Stephano right now could be the best zerg playing the game right now who knows. Nestea, DRG, Leenock....champions all of who brought some cool stuff to the race.
I know i listed a few foreigners, but too me I didn't get into watching esports by watching koreans. I got into it when I saw the story of Idra vs MC at MLG and how cool it was. I got really excited for the Naniwa vs Nestea at an MLG. While koreans are amazing players, I feel like Foreigners are good too, and also help bring in the west into esports.
Mvp, this man is legendary. He is the best player to ever touch SC2. He is the king of SC2. His legacy will never be forgotten. MMA is one of the greatest terran player in WoL. He is known for his legendary TvZ. MKP, the player who almost won GSL with pure marines nuff said. Polt, one of the most consistent player who play on top level.
Nestea,DRG,Leenock,Stephano
Nestea is here because he is Nestea. DRG, he is one of the most mechanically gifted player in WoL and has shown prowess many times. Leenock, he is maybe the best zerg at the moment and has been playing for very long time despite his young age. Stephano, the most famous zerg. Although I don't think he has been the best zerg at any point but he always remains one of the best which is impressive for foriegner.
Terran: mvp, mma, mkp, polt Protoss: mc, squirtle, creator, parting Zerg: nestea, drg, stephano, life (life is just really fun to watch, leenock is probably more deserving)
On December 04 2012 14:32 MateShade wrote: If youre going from the beginning of sc2 till now, based purely on GSL it would be without question (and in order):
Terran: MVP, MarineKing, MMA, Polt
Protoss: MC, Genius, Seed, Hongun
Zerg: Nestea, DRG, FruitDealer, Leenock
HOLY SHIT i forgot about hongun, my favorite protoss, until you mentioned him ;O
Seed has been out of GSL for such a long long time though, despite being a good protoss back in early WoL and winning that one GSL. But you are basing only on GSL. So since he won a GSL, then yea.
Yeah I totally agree, but unfortunately there's no one there to replace them. The current top Protoss simply haven't been around long enough or been consistent enough to break those 4 protoss in the 'all time' gsl standings. I'm sure in 12 months it will look different but hots will be out by then so maybe they will edge it out depending what happens next season
Mvp is the most accomplished sc2 player so far, if you don't have him on your list, you are doing it wrong. Just look at this list.
#1 Gainward SC2 Tournament #1 Arena of Legends: Team Ace Invitational #1 GSL January 2011 #1 GSL World Championship #1 MLG Anaheim 2011 #1 GSL August 2011 #2 GSL October 2011 #1 Blizzcon 2011 #1 WCG 2011 #1 GSL Season 2 2012 #1 IEM VII Cologne #2 GSl Season 4 2012
Any more questions?
MMA is a two time GSL champion and has shown beautiful multitasking capabilities, which always made for the most entertaining games. When you think of marines, you think of MKP. That should be reason enough to put his head up there. Plus he was the first back-to-back MLG champion and no one else made it to the GSL finals that often (Not counting MVP, because he won). I was very indecisive for the last spot, but eventually picked Polt over Taeja. Both are excellent player and I personally thought Taeja was the best starcraft 2 player to date at his prime, but Polt has been around forever, has won a GSL and seems to me as the next Terran hope. Also this guy embodies the marauder, which fits quite well to Marineking.
Protoss: MC, Parting, Hero and Rain
MC is the highest grossing starcraft 2 player to date, three time GSL champion and the president of South Korea and probably soon the whole world. Not putting him up Mount Rushmore would be madness. MADNESS. Parting is simply the best protoss player at the moment, won BWC and WCG 2012. Back-to-back Dreamhack winter champion Hero is probably the most handsome and most creative starcraft 2 player I've seen (Team Liquid bias!). I'm taking quite a risk putting Rain there, but I believe, we will see many great things from Rain in the future. He won the first OSL and surprised almost everybody with astonishing clean play. I thought rorO or Flash would be the first Kespa player to make an impact on the starcraft 2 scene and I'm certainly surprised by this guy.
Honorable mentions: Creator, Genius.
If Rain falls off, Creator takes his place. BWC #2, BWC Asia #1, TSL 4 #1, Prime Ace. Shoutout to Genius, because he won Blizzcon 2010 and made it to the GSL finals in 2012.
Zerg: Nestea, Leenock, DRG and probably Stephano
To determine the first three Zergs, just look at their achievements:
Nestea: three time GSL champion, Blizzcon Runner-up. Leenock: two time MLG champion, IPL 5 champion, GSL runner-up, MLG runner-up. And he's only 17 and his birthday is April 1, which I find funny. DRG: GSL champion, GSL runner-up, MLG champion, MLG runner-up, OSL runner-up.
There are lot of Zergs to choose for the last slot like Life, Sniper, viOlet, but I think Stephano has the most accomplished out of the four (Plus foreigner bias!).
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
Wow, and DRG does not have a place in it. Seriously. If MKP does have a place, DRG should more so. Fruitdealer is no-one compared to DRG. Months of domination, compared to first few GSLs?
I don't want to separate them by races. I'd just put MVP, Nestea, MC and Idra. The first three are kinda obvious - most titled, most successful, most earned, lasted the longest during the whole period. Why Idra and not Stephano/Huk/Naniwa/Jinro? Because Idra was and remained through the whole period an important foreigner, who would occasionally make a strike. When I look back, there's a whole year with no Stephano in sight, so I can't put Stephano there for WoL. But the future is his.
On December 05 2012 00:36 SwizzY wrote: I think you guys are missing the point of "Mt. Rushmore" of Starcraft. Fruitdealer was THE man when he won the first Code S in the fucking sea of Terrans. They made him a friggin portrait. He is the 1st, the revolutionary George Washington, and he is most definitely should be on the zerg Mt. Rush. Seriously? Leenock? Life? They are way better than Fruitdealer ever was but that's not the point. They don't represent milestones in the Zerg race. They are just good players riding the wave.
Terran: Easily the 4 mentioned MVP, MMA, MKP, Polt. They all represent major points of Terran domination or play. I think Polt is a point of contention but noone is worthy of taking his place.
Zerg: Fruitdealer, Nestea, Stephano, DRG. These guys are all highly significant in Zerg history/domination and were all "the best" at some point in time.
Protoss: MC, HuK, HerO, Parting. MC is a given, HuK is the only protoss foreigner to have consistently made waves back when he was relevant, Hero is 2 time DH winter winner and imo one of the first to really use multi-pronged harass with WP/HT/sentry, and Parting because of his revolutionary builds.
OKAY. This is actually the most convincing post in the entire thread. I see why Fruitdealer should be in there now. Can't argue with any of your choices except maybe Parting.
On December 05 2012 02:18 HwangjaeTerran wrote: I take pride in being kind of a dick but I wouldn't chisel faces of anyone into the holy place of another people.
e. maybe Goody, but that's it.
Actually, Goody should be put above everyone. We should carve his face into the moon or something, so the whole world knows who the panzer general is.
On December 05 2012 02:18 HwangjaeTerran wrote: I take pride in being kind of a dick but I wouldn't chisel faces of anyone into the holy place of another people.
e. maybe Goody, but that's it.
Location: North Korea, takes pride in being a dick, respects holy places, believes in the power of panzer general Goody.
On December 04 2012 05:40 Shellshock1122 wrote: Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, Marineking
Zerg: NesTea DRG Stephano Leenock (Fruitdealer was the first champion but i just dont feel like he was as influential in how the game was played as these 4. sorry FD)
Protoss: MC, PartinG, Seed, Creator (Squirtle needs to win something; maybe HerO. this one is tough too)
On December 04 2012 05:34 Kakaru2 wrote: MMA 2 times GSL champion? I remember he only won once and got destroyed by Polt the second time.
Blizzard Cup is counted as a GSL by Gom. He got a pin for it
I'm most inclined to agree with this one.
Terran is self explanatory. Zerg is pretty fucking solid, fruitdealer was only a thing season 1 GSL so i totally agree with that + DRG was on a tear for a while.
Toss is the hardest, obviously MC is a president so he goes on, PartinG is a good choice as well. I think seed is solid but then we are left with alicia, squirtle, creator, san and tassadar.
As for most influential i actually think it might have been alicia although obviously creator did better overall.
On December 05 2012 00:36 SwizzY wrote: I think you guys are missing the point of "Mt. Rushmore" of Starcraft. Fruitdealer was THE man when he won the first Code S in the fucking sea of Terrans. They made him a friggin portrait. He is the 1st, the revolutionary George Washington, and he is most definitely should be on the zerg Mt. Rush. Seriously? Leenock? Life? They are way better than Fruitdealer ever was but that's not the point. They don't represent milestones in the Zerg race. They are just good players riding the wave.
First two seasons tell nothing about terran domination. Because the game was completely new. Yes terrans were better than the rest, but not because they were that good. First few seasons were by far easiest to win, not the opposite, nothing was figured out well. Even if you can give credit to FD for his 'innovative play', he doesnt deserve any for the perseverance Zergs like Nestea showed. He won one championship and rested on the laurels.
Terran: MVP, MMA, MKP, and ThorZaiN The best SC2 player in the world, the legend killer, the real king of marines and the winner of TSL3/special foreigner to me.
Zerg: Fruitdealer, Nestea, DRG, IdrA The first champion, the most dominating player in a certain period imo, DRG raised the level of SC2 a lot and IdrA just got SC2 a lot more fans and has a little spot in all our esports hearts!
Protoss: MC, PartinG, Rain, Naniwa The Boss Toss, The Soul Toss, The Elephant Toss, The Keyboard Toss.
On December 04 2012 05:33 lorestarcraft wrote: MC HuK PartinG and HerO
Agreed.
MC needs no explanation. Being the only Protoss to win a GSL in 2010 and 2011 as well as his countless overseas victories and runner ups.
HuK's victory at MLG orlando inspired hope for a all non koreans. That, along with his HSC3 and Dreamhack win as well as code S RO8 appearances made him the best foreigner of 2011.
Parting has captured two world championships (WCS and WCG) in as many weeks.
I could see an argument made for a protoss other than HerO, (Possibly White-Ra?) but HerO's warp prism play was in many ways ahead of its time... Hard to say here though.
On December 04 2012 05:43 Ettick wrote: IMO for toss aside from MC it should be PartinG, Rain, and NaNiwa Parting because he won BWC Rain because he won OSL and is a top tier toss atm NaNiwa because he's the best foreign toss player and had some really good runs in the GSL
And how does that make him a better fit than guys like Hero, Creator, Seed or Squirtle? oO
On December 04 2012 05:43 Ettick wrote: IMO for toss aside from MC it should be PartinG, Rain, and NaNiwa Parting because he won BWC Rain because he won OSL and is a top tier toss atm NaNiwa because he's the best foreign toss player and had some really good runs in the GSL
And how does that make him a better fit than guys like Hero, Creator, Seed or Squirtle? oO
I'd go with the most "legendary" players for each, MMA/MVP/MKP/Thorzain for Terran, FruitDealer/NesTea/DRG/Stephano for Zerg, and MC/Huk/Parting/Naniwa for Protoss.
All of them have shined through in both their gameplay and personality and continued to get respect regardless of results, much like Boxer or Nada in the BW days. (not saying they are bonjwas, there's a difference)
Terran-MVP, MKP, Polt, MMA I'm not sure anyone could even argue for something else on this one. Protoss-MC, Parting, Squirtle(for saving Korea from losing to foreigners), Naniwa Zerg- Nestea, DRG, Life, Leenock
I'd go with the most "legendary" players for each, MMA/MVP/MKP/Thorzain for Terran, FruitDealer/NesTea/DRG/Stephano for Zerg, and MC/Huk/Parting/Naniwa for Protoss.
All of them have shined through in both their gameplay and personality and continued to get respect regardless of results, much like Boxer or Nada in the BW days. (not saying they are bonjwas, there's a difference)
I think Puma is an interesting suggestion (he's one of the options in the Terran poll). He pioneered the 1-1-1 and was one of the first Koreans to join a foreign team (I think Rain may have joined Fnatic earlier). Rain did have one game against Boxer at an MLG that got a lot of attention but Puma was the first Korean to really make a name for himself in foreigner tournaments, meaning he became well-known for his success in foreigner tournaments, whereas people like MC had already had success in Korea before making lots of money from outside Korea.
Edit: At L0L; since this is for WoL, I think the only Kespa player who can be considered is Rain. (Now I have mentioned both Rains in one post). Flash and Jaedong are legends, but not in WoL and when people think back on WoL those names won't be the first that come to mind.
On December 06 2012 05:34 Archen wrote: Terran-MVP, MKP, Polt, MMA I'm not sure anyone could even argue for something else on this one. Protoss-MC, Parting, Squirtle(for saving Korea from losing to foreigners), Naniwa Zerg- Nestea, DRG, Life, Leenock
I guess the question really is: How much presentism can we bring into our mount rushmore picks?
Since I know MMA was the king of 2011 but then fizzled hard, where does that put him compared to Life right now, or What if we chose the faces when Rain was in the ro4 with MVP? Would we not be tempted to say Rain?
On December 04 2012 05:30 Fionn wrote: With the end of WoL only a few months away, who would you put on your Mount Rushmore for each race when we think back to the days of Wings of Liberty?
For me, I'd go:
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing
Probably the easiest for me. The four Terrans with the most money, and they've all either won a GSL title or been in a lot of them. Mvp, Polt and MKP have been around the top of SC2 since the start of SC2, and MMA came on a bit later to win a few GSTL's and two GSL's.
Protoss: MC, ?, ?, ?
Yeah, I have no clue. MC and three guys. There are tons of guys you could put there. You figure it out.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, Stephano
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
MC (consensus), Hero (near consensus), Creator and Parting. They have led the way in the new wave of Korean tosses and have been copied to no end. And unlike Squirtle have had some success as far as becoming a champion. Huk just missed out, mostly from not really leading the way in anything, but having several tournament wins under his belt. Others: Squirtle, Seed, White-ra.
Terran
MVP (consensus), Polt (near consensus), MKP although he has fallen off has a few wins and has always been an innovator, and the last one is the toughest. I don't think MMA has quite been as impactful as the other three terrans, definately doesn't have the same wins, and hasn't really been the leading voice in any major meta shift. My other choices are Ryung, Taeja, Bomber and Thorzain. I think Thorzain is the one that makes it. He's had a lot of success and his style, preparation and builds have been widely imitated. Thorzain makes it four.
Zerg
Nestea (consensus), DRG, Leenock and Stephano who barely squeeks in. DRG was a Zerg hero when heros were scarce. His ZvT has always been exciting and dynamic and his use of muta/ling/bane has been nothing short of revolutionary. Leenock is a winner. Sometimes it's ugly, mindboggling, but he still wins and in some convoluted genius way his unconventional builds and styles work. He's still young so his face should hang around for a while and he'll only get better. He gets a spot. Lastly, squeeky in by the skin of his teeth, Stephano. By no means a veteran of the scene, but a player who has done so much in his short tenure it's almost impossible to keep him out. His often abusive style has changed the meta game forever. That and he has just won so much. On the outside looking in: FD, Dimaga, Idra, Scarlett.
Just one comment regarding Fruitdealer (because it's almost kind of annoyed me how wrong people are getting the history of sc2).
Fruitdealer didn't win the GSL at a time when nobody thought could beat terran - He won when no terrans knew how to beat zergs at mid/lategame
Many people actually forgot where there was a period of roughly 1-2 months where terrans absolutely got owned by zergs and Blizzard considered nerfing banelings as a response to the zerg domination.
At the time he won, tanks and reapers had already been nerfed, and he went in as the favourite to play Rainbow. Very quickly his lack of practice showed and he began sucking. I don't think players with that kind of attitude/mediocore accomplishments (relative) should be on the list.
On December 06 2012 07:13 Hider wrote: Just one comment regarding Fruitdealer (because it's almost kind of annoyed me how wrong people are getting the history of sc2).
Fruitdealer didn't win the GSL at a time when nobody thought could beat terran - He won when no terrans knew how to beat zergs at mid/lategame
Many people actually forgot where there was a period of roughly 1-2 months where terrans absolutely got owned by zergs and Blizzard considered nerfing banelings as a response to the zerg domination.
At the time he won, tanks and reapers had already been nerfed, and he went in as the favourite to play Rainbow. Very quickly his lack of practice showed and he began sucking. I don't think players with that kind of attitude/mediocore accomplishments (relative) should be on the list.
Dude, lategame was something people were dreaming about when FD was playing this game. x)
I went in order of Imba, also, Kiwikaki is in their for his metagame changing plays much like why stephano is there as well. Mvp is too damn good to passup and polt is there for raw skill and talent at the game. The most deserving here I'd say would be leenock because I believe he's won the most over the period of time he's played the game. He won way back in beta and he continues to win now.
Well this seems like a rapidly growing thread, these are always fun to do ^^ In order by race and preference I'd rank them:
Terran: #1Mvp #2MarineKing #3MMA #4Polt
Starting with the easy one, there are 4 names that immediately come to mind, Mvp being the obvious first pick, no explanation needed. MKP would come after due to being (on and off) one of the very best players for all of WoL's lifespan. MMA had the most inspiring Terran play I've ever seen during his breakthrough, crushing through in 2011, but sadly has fallen off quite a bit in 2012, no thanks to the SlayerS incident by the way. Polt takes the 4th spot with his big Super Tournament victory and a decent amount of foreign winnings to his name as well.
Zerg: #1Stephano #2DongRaeGu #3NesTea #4Leenock
This one should be a 6-man lineup to be honest, but I had to cut someone, so I had to ditch Fruit Dealer, as no matter how iconic he is, he's still nothing but a one-hit wonder that then faded to oblivion. Stephano is... well he's Stephano, not much to say, he essentially represents the foreign hope wherever he goes. Even if NesTea may have more overall winnings with his GSL titles and whatnot, you have to remember that this community is, in the end, foreign, and Stephano does fill a very special role as far as that goes. Also, NesTea may be the god of zerg, but he's fallen off so hard during 2012, whereas DRG has always gotten out of his slumps relatively quickly, therefore I'd put the latter at #2. It's worth clarifying that this is not a list of skill level, but one of iconization, which is why I've been forced to give Stephano quite a boost. Finally, Leenock with his multiple big foreign trophies has to make the 4th spot. I really, really want to put Life in here as well, being the 15 year old Royal Roader and all, and had it been a listing of 2012 alone, he'd be right at the top, but fact of the matter is: I can't really put someone who's been top tier for the last 3 months as the key figure for a 2+ years old game. Sorry :/
Protoss: #1MC #2PartinG #3HerO #4NaNiWa
Honestly MC is the only one really deserving to be mentioned, but PartinG will have to take second with the ridiculous amount of money he's won lately, combined with perhaps the greatest personality in the scene and becoming the world champion. HerO has been top tier for quite a while longer, and has won more tournaments, but that alone is not enough to take PartinG's #2 spot. 4th spot is a tossup (literally), I chose Nani as he's won consistantly for a long time, and actually did really well in GSL the time he was there. One might as well put HuK in there instead, but I'd rather not, also Squirtle just doesn't seem to have luck on his side when it really matters, and Rain is, despite blowing everyone away with his play, still such a recent addition to the toss powerhouse roster that you can't really mention him that noteably for all of Wings of Liberty, when he's hardly been playing it.
To expand on your concept a bit though, I thought I could combine the above listings and create a new top 4 for any race, which would look like this:
All: #1Mvp #2MC #3Stephano #4MarineKing
Mvp, 4-time GSL champion, 2-time GSL runner-up, and winner of numerous different foreign tournaments as well, being the role model for just about every SC2 terran in the world. I'm honestly not really a fan, but I'm not going to argue with facts. MC has the most prize winnings in the world, however the gap is really small down to Mvp, but his road there has generally not been quite as hard. That being said, the pair of them are the clear winners of the honors of standing atop Mount Rushmore, regardless of whom you'd prefer as the #1. Stephano would not be what he is in the eyes of the community had he been born a Korean, but the simple truth is: he's the best foreigner on the planet, that's a fact, and he's been so for a long time now. He's also a drama magnet, which, despite normally hurting him, does put him even more in the spotlight. You have to admit that no matter what your angle is on the issue, Stephano will always be one of the players you think of the very first when it comes to these kinds of polls, and for that, he should be remembered for it in return. Finally, MKP has to make it in the top 4 in last place, for being such a likeable human being that's been performing strongly for over 2 years now, even if he's been slumping here and there, he's always bounced back and kept coming back for more.
My 2 cents on the matter, wasn't intending it to go on this long, but I enjoyed discussing it with myself, so there ya' have it ^^
MC for protoss, 3 time finalist and two dozen top tier championships to go with being the long time highest earning player in SC2.
MVP for Terran, no way around him. 6 time finalist, 4 time champion. Add to that a respectable bunch of foreign tournament victories.. (victories won at an outstanding rate versus times participated). Also, the highest earning player in SC2 right now.
So, T or P, no contest. The facts are just not there to claim anyone else for the throne. But Zerg, now that's something else to fight over. I don't think you can nominate any of them without there being outstanding counterarguments to nominating him.
Terran: MVP, Bomber, Polt, MarineKing Protoss: MC, HerO, HuK, ? Zerg: DRG, Stephano, NesTea Dimaga (I had so much fun cheering for him, so it's just a personal Mt. Rushmore )
On December 06 2012 07:13 Hider wrote: Just one comment regarding Fruitdealer (because it's almost kind of annoyed me how wrong people are getting the history of sc2).
Fruitdealer didn't win the GSL at a time when nobody thought could beat terran - He won when no terrans knew how to beat zergs at mid/lategame
Uhh.. no. It was the atrocious map imbalance that made Terran absurdly overpowered. FruitDealer overcame that in a blizzard of glory, through beautiful strategic game play and decision making better detailed elsewhere.
Just consider he was alone in the top 16 with 15 terrans and you realize how incredulous your statement that Zerg was OP then is.
I like the theory of this idea, but I think it is a bit premature. WOL still has 4 months to go. Lots of SC2 tournaments still to play. Parting and Hero have had a really good month, Life and Leenock also excellent recently. Who knows what will happen before HOTS comes in? If you had attempted this 4 months ago, Life, Creator, Taeja, Parting and Rain would not have even been in this discussion. A lot can happen in 4 months.
I think we can look back and assess the WOL era more accurately when it has completed.
The fourth protoss is the only hard determination, but who are you going to put instead of MaNa? Really only Rain, and if WoL goes on for much longer, Rain may pass MaNa in achievements. (For now, though, MaNa objectively has more achievements).
On December 06 2012 09:07 revel8 wrote: I like the theory of this idea, but I think it is a bit premature. WOL still has 4 months to go. Lots of SC2 tournaments still to play. Parting and Hero have had a really good month, Life and Leenock also excellent recently. Who knows what will happen before HOTS comes in? If you had attempted this 4 months ago, Life, Creator, Taeja, Parting and Rain would not have even been in this discussion. A lot can happen in 4 months.
I think we can look back and assess the WOL era more accurately when it has completed.
Not all four months are created the same, the tournament season has pretty much ended at this time of year.
If i should say the players who have brought the best game personally for me it would be: Terran - Jinro, MVP, MMA, Polt Zerg - NesTea, Stephano, Dongraegu, Leenock Protoss - MC, Naniwa, Parting, Hero
On December 06 2012 07:13 Hider wrote: Just one comment regarding Fruitdealer (because it's almost kind of annoyed me how wrong people are getting the history of sc2).
Fruitdealer didn't win the GSL at a time when nobody thought could beat terran - He won when no terrans knew how to beat zergs at mid/lategame
Many people actually forgot where there was a period of roughly 1-2 months where terrans absolutely got owned by zergs and Blizzard considered nerfing banelings as a response to the zerg domination.
At the time he won, tanks and reapers had already been nerfed, and he went in as the favourite to play Rainbow. Very quickly his lack of practice showed and he began sucking. I don't think players with that kind of attitude/mediocore accomplishments (relative) should be on the list.
Dude, lategame was something people were dreaming about when FD was playing this game. x)
Age of darkness for Zergs -_-
I wonder what my opponent is doing? Oh look 2rax scv pull again. Great thing our maps make sure the enemies base is actually on top of mine, rush distance: almost 0
Terran: MVP, MarineKing, Clide, Jinro Clide and Jinro were loved while they were active, while MVP and MarineKing were consistently good. Jinro at one point was considered one of the top 5 players in the world, a peak that no other foreigner has reached since. Clide could never reach the top, but he was the only Terran who refused to cheese during a time where reapers could have nitro packs without a factory. And of course, CLIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE~
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, July FruitDealer started it all. Nestea needs no explanation, while Leenock showed that someone could greatly improve over time. July was the most successful of the BW legends who transferred over early, slightly edging out Nada. He's still active but I don't think he'll ever reach new success again.
Protoss: MC, HongUn, Genius, Inca HongUn is the most underrated WoL player of all-time, and the only one to pull off carrier wins in GSL multiple times. Two GSL Ro4 and Ro8, yet he was never picked by the fans to represent Korea in the world championship. Genius and Inca, despite being inconsistent at times, always stuck around in Code S.
Looking at it based on history. Also, I only considered active players that were completely dominant because I wanted to include some great retired players in their time, who will be forgotten by most after HotS comes out. Sure, Stephano and DRG are good, but they'll have plenty of time to further carve out their careers.
Terran: MVP, Jinro, MKP, MMA MVP: Pretty obvious Jinro: The original foreigner hope! MKP: Made a HUGE splash on the scene with marine micro (and being foxer) MMA: Boxer's son...those were the days
Ptoss: MC, Huk, HerO, Puzzle MC: Makes sense Huk: Another early foreigner hope (ty liquid) HerO: One of the most entertaining toss' to watch out there Puzzle: The guy is just awesome
Zerg: Nestea, Kyrix, Idra, July Nestea: IMNESTEEEEEAAAAAAAAA Kyrix: made for some pretty damn exciting games (KyrixvsMKP GSL) Idra: May not be placing the same now but in the early days there was nothing more exciting than rooting for Idra July: Boss in BW. Boss in SC2. Not much else to say
Needless to say most of my choices were based off of the players initial impact on the scene, but there may have been a lot of bias involved as well :D:D:D
I see so many empirical results-based answers I'm going to go for a change of pace.
I've been away from the scene for half a year, so I can look at the scene in retrospect, and chose the faces that stick out most in my mind. Rather than quantitatively how good they've done, mine are based on their image and how much of an icon they seem.
On December 04 2012 05:30 Fionn wrote: With the end of WoL only a few months away, who would you put on your Mount Rushmore for each race when we think back to the days of Wings of Liberty?
For me, I'd go:
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing
Probably the easiest for me. The four Terrans with the most money, and they've all either won a GSL title or been in a lot of them. Mvp, Polt and MKP have been around the top of SC2 since the start of SC2, and MMA came on a bit later to win a few GSTL's and two GSL's.
Protoss: MC, ?, ?, ?
Yeah, I have no clue. MC and three guys. There are tons of guys you could put there. You figure it out.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, Stephano
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
parting and seed at least deserve a spot and HuK for being the only foreign toss you really do well in GSL for a good amount of time
Leenock doesnt deserve that spot DRG deserves it alot more or life since hes the first ever royal roader
I don't see how Life could be placed higher than leenock. I love them both, but life has only been really around for a year and he only broke into individual fame this summer. Leenock has been a consistent top player and role model for zergs for years now.
DRG has more a claim than Life but I still put leenock above him. DRG was in the shadows for a while and he seemed to peak back early this year. Leenock has been in code S practically every season whilst winning numerous tournaments around the globe and he only looks to be getting stronger or at least is able to look like a top contender for any title he enters. There were only a couple of brief periods when Leenock looked remotely vulnerable. The kid is a monster and a constant symbol for zerg hope, when I look at DRG right now I do not think one can say the same (even though he is still a great player).
My picks:
Terran: MVP, Marineking, Polt, MMA
Protoss: MC, Parting, Squirtle, HuK (foreigner bias, this should probably be creator) (also ST bias, but yeah Squirtle innovates very often)
Zerg: Fruitdealer (you had to be there during season 1...), Nestea, Stephano, Leenock
On December 06 2012 12:57 andrea20 wrote: Terran: MVP, MarineKing, Clide, Jinro Clide and Jinro were loved while they were active, while MVP and MarineKing were consistently good. Jinro at one point was considered one of the top 5 players in the world, a peak that no other foreigner has reached since. Clide could never reach the top, but he was the only Terran who refused to cheese during a time where reapers could have nitro packs without a factory. And of course, CLIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE~
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, July FruitDealer started it all. Nestea needs no explanation, while Leenock showed that someone could greatly improve over time. July was the most successful of the BW legends who transferred over early, slightly edging out Nada. He's still active but I don't think he'll ever reach new success again.
Protoss: MC, HongUn, Genius, Inca HongUn is the most underrated WoL player of all-time, and the only one to pull off carrier wins in GSL multiple times. Two GSL Ro4 and Ro8, yet he was never picked by the fans to represent Korea in the world championship. Genius and Inca, despite being inconsistent at times, always stuck around in Code S.
Looking at it based on history. Also, I only considered active players that were completely dominant because I wanted to include some great retired players in their time, who will be forgotten by most after HotS comes out. Sure, Stephano and DRG are good, but they'll have plenty of time to further carve out their careers.
HuK hit a similar peak when he went on a tear in top 8 code S, an MLG championship and an HSC.
On December 04 2012 05:30 Fionn wrote: With the end of WoL only a few months away, who would you put on your Mount Rushmore for each race when we think back to the days of Wings of Liberty?
For me, I'd go:
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing
Probably the easiest for me. The four Terrans with the most money, and they've all either won a GSL title or been in a lot of them. Mvp, Polt and MKP have been around the top of SC2 since the start of SC2, and MMA came on a bit later to win a few GSTL's and two GSL's.
Protoss: MC, ?, ?, ?
Yeah, I have no clue. MC and three guys. There are tons of guys you could put there. You figure it out.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, Stephano
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
parting and seed at least deserve a spot and HuK for being the only foreign toss you really do well in GSL for a good amount of time
Leenock doesnt deserve that spot DRG deserves it alot more or life since hes the first ever royal roader
I don't see how Life could be placed higher than leenock. I love them both, but life has only been really around for a year and he only broke into individual fame this summer. Leenock has been a consistent top player and role model for zergs for years now.
DRG has more a claim than Life but I still put leenock above him. DRG was in the shadows for a while and he seemed to peak back early this year. Leenock has been in code S practically every season whilst winning numerous tournaments around the globe and he only looks to be getting stronger or at least is able to look like a top contender for any title he enters. There were only a couple of brief periods when Leenock looked remotely vulnerable. The kid is a monster and a constant symbol for zerg hope, when I look at DRG right now I do not think one can say the same (even though he is still a great player).
My picks:
Terran: MVP, Marineking, Polt, MMA
Protoss: MC, Parting, Squirtle, HuK (foreigner bias, this should probably be creator) (also ST bias, but yeah Squirtle innovates very often)
Zerg: Fruitdealer (you had to be there during season 1...), Nestea, Stephano, Leenock
Also I want to mention top 4 all around choices (saw in someone else's post)
#1 MVP #2 Nestea #3 MC #4 Stephano (foreigner hope bonus points, not my favorite zerg)
Also I want to mention that Whitera should probably have been on my original list instead of anyone but MC. He is a pillar of the community, an innovator for protoss, and was good last year. In terms of influence he is huge.
Terran: Mvp, MMA, MarineKing Ah, Mvp and his dominance, MMA being the kryptonite. Boy I'd love if Mvp his wrists get all patched up and MMA finds the discipline to practice like before again.. Although from his interviews he doesn't seem too engaged about practicing like before plus he doesn't have a personal coach anymore. MKP his consistency + super strong run at the start of 2012 looking almost unbeatable for a month or 2 till queens got patched certainly puts him on the list. If it wasn't for Mvp this guy would have had his fair share of GSL titles.
Protoss: MC, Parting? MC has always been my favorite player, from his 4gates to his 2base all-ins to his insane late game, he's always been the best protoss. Seed cheesed him from his third GSL title, and atm Creator & Parting are getting stronger results but I have full confidence he will be back. He's only won a big tournament recently but I remember him and Squirtle making me think psi storm was imba ^^ I'd add Squirtle as well but he hasn't really won anything :[
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea and recently Leenock. FruitDealer in 2010 need I say more? Best plays came from him, so sad to see him go. Nestea being Nestea, I wonder if he'll get back to it once he isn't so busy with esf stuff. Maybe in HoTS when infestors are a bit less OP and mutalisks become viable again? Nestea always shined with muta ling bane. Life is good as well recently (As are many zergs...), but Leenock has been consistent over the years and he's showing great improvement lately!
For foreigners I'd go with Stephano, Huk and Nerchio.
I'm sorry you guys but there's no way you can have a Mount Zergmore without Fruitdealer on it.
He was the George Washington of Zerg. He won the first GSL when EVERYONE was convinced Zerg was completely underpowered, he introduced the first major blockbuster playstyle in SC2 history (the Baneling Carpetbomb)
He's the first GSL Champion EVER.
I know that there are Zergs now with more titles, or more money and there's probably several that are straight up better than him, but there's no denying the impact that Fruitdealer has had on SC2's history. Only Nestea is a more storied player of that race.
Fruitdealer and Nestea are on mount Zergmore, That isn't debatable. Argue how you want about the other 2 spots, but those two spots are set in stone as far as I'm concerned.
Well this seems like a rapidly growing thread, these are always fun to do ^^ In order by race and preference I'd rank them:
Terran: #1Mvp #2MarineKing #3MMA #4Polt
Starting with the easy one, there are 4 names that immediately come to mind, Mvp being the obvious first pick, no explanation needed. MKP would come after due to being (on and off) one of the very best players for all of WoL's lifespan. MMA had the most inspiring Terran play I've ever seen during his breakthrough, crushing through in 2011, but sadly has fallen off quite a bit in 2012, no thanks to the SlayerS incident by the way. Polt takes the 4th spot with his big Super Tournament victory and a decent amount of foreign winnings to his name as well.
Zerg: #1Stephano #2DongRaeGu #3NesTea #4Leenock
This one should be a 6-man lineup to be honest, but I had to cut someone, so I had to ditch Fruit Dealer, as no matter how iconic he is, he's still nothing but a one-hit wonder that then faded to oblivion. Stephano is... well he's Stephano, not much to say, he essentially represents the foreign hope wherever he goes. Even if NesTea may have more overall winnings with his GSL titles and whatnot, you have to remember that this community is, in the end, foreign, and Stephano does fill a very special role as far as that goes. Also, NesTea may be the god of zerg, but he's fallen off so hard during 2012, whereas DRG has always gotten out of his slumps relatively quickly, therefore I'd put the latter at #2. It's worth clarifying that this is not a list of skill level, but one of iconization, which is why I've been forced to give Stephano quite a boost. Finally, Leenock with his multiple big foreign trophies has to make the 4th spot. I really, really want to put Life in here as well, being the 15 year old Royal Roader and all, and had it been a listing of 2012 alone, he'd be right at the top, but fact of the matter is: I can't really put someone who's been top tier for the last 3 months as the key figure for a 2+ years old game. Sorry :/
Protoss: #1MC #2PartinG #3HerO #4NaNiWa
Honestly MC is the only one really deserving to be mentioned, but PartinG will have to take second with the ridiculous amount of money he's won lately, combined with perhaps the greatest personality in the scene and becoming the world champion. HerO has been top tier for quite a while longer, and has won more tournaments, but that alone is not enough to take PartinG's #2 spot. 4th spot is a tossup (literally), I chose Nani as he's won consistantly for a long time, and actually did really well in GSL the time he was there. One might as well put HuK in there instead, but I'd rather not, also Squirtle just doesn't seem to have luck on his side when it really matters, and Rain is, despite blowing everyone away with his play, still such a recent addition to the toss powerhouse roster that you can't really mention him that noteably for all of Wings of Liberty, when he's hardly been playing it.
To expand on your concept a bit though, I thought I could combine the above listings and create a new top 4 for any race, which would look like this:
All: #1Mvp #2MC #3Stephano #4MarineKing
Mvp, 4-time GSL champion, 2-time GSL runner-up, and winner of numerous different foreign tournaments as well, being the role model for just about every SC2 terran in the world. I'm honestly not really a fan, but I'm not going to argue with facts. MC has the most prize winnings in the world, however the gap is really small down to Mvp, but his road there has generally not been quite as hard. That being said, the pair of them are the clear winners of the honors of standing atop Mount Rushmore, regardless of whom you'd prefer as the #1. Stephano would not be what he is in the eyes of the community had he been born a Korean, but the simple truth is: he's the best foreigner on the planet, that's a fact, and he's been so for a long time now. He's also a drama magnet, which, despite normally hurting him, does put him even more in the spotlight. You have to admit that no matter what your angle is on the issue, Stephano will always be one of the players you think of the very first when it comes to these kinds of polls, and for that, he should be remembered for it in return. Finally, MKP has to make it in the top 4 in last place, for being such a likeable human being that's been performing strongly for over 2 years now, even if he's been slumping here and there, he's always bounced back and kept coming back for more.
My 2 cents on the matter, wasn't intending it to go on this long, but I enjoyed discussing it with myself, so there ya' have it
^^
(Spoilered for length of quote). You say Life doesn't derserve to be in it because his success has only come in the last 3 months but then your argument for Parting makes it based on personality and his success in the last couple of months I guess this shows how much harder it is to make the zerg 4 than protoss. There have been far more superstar zerg players.
On December 04 2012 05:30 Fionn wrote: With the end of WoL only a few months away, who would you put on your Mount Rushmore for each race when we think back to the days of Wings of Liberty?
For me, I'd go:
Terran: Mvp, MMA, Polt, MarineKing
Probably the easiest for me. The four Terrans with the most money, and they've all either won a GSL title or been in a lot of them. Mvp, Polt and MKP have been around the top of SC2 since the start of SC2, and MMA came on a bit later to win a few GSTL's and two GSL's.
Protoss: MC, ?, ?, ?
Yeah, I have no clue. MC and three guys. There are tons of guys you could put there. You figure it out.
Zerg: FruitDealer, Nestea, Leenock, Stephano
FruitDealer for being the George Washington of SC2, Nestea for being Nestea, Leenock for his various title wins throughout the life of Wings, and Stephano for his countless accomplishments.
parting and seed at least deserve a spot and HuK for being the only foreign toss you really do well in GSL for a good amount of time
Leenock doesnt deserve that spot DRG deserves it alot more or life since hes the first ever royal roader
DRG has more a claim than Life but I still put leenock above him. DRG was in the shadows for a while and he seemed to peak back early this year. Leenock has been in code S practically every season whilst winning numerous tournaments around the globe and he only looks to be getting stronger or at least is able to look like a top contender for any title he enters. There were only a couple of brief periods when Leenock looked remotely vulnerable. The kid is a monster and a constant symbol for zerg hope, when I look at DRG right now I do not think one can say the same (even though he is still a great player).
I don't think Leenock ever really had a period where he looked dominant. He has been exceptional of late but has not always been that way. I do think DRG's peak was higher. Also, Leenock has looked very vulnerable sometimes. There was one period where he struggled a lot against Protoss.
Terran: MVP, MMA, Polt, MKP (four most prolific Terrans of all-time)
Protoss: MC, Seed, Parting, Creator (Champions of GSL + WCS and Creator reinvented PvT, so for me Creator>Rain)
Zerg: FruitDealer, NesTea, DRG, Life (FD was below average but won the first championship, best strategic Zerg ever, best mechanical Zerg ever, highest level in my opinion of Zerg ever played, and not just strictly because of Infestor)
All-Time: MVP, NesTea, MC, MMA (not much explanation needed hopefully)
On December 06 2012 17:46 K3Nyy wrote: Just wondering but why do most of you guys favor Polt over Bomber? Bomber used to be a top tier player for the longest time right behind Mvp.
Bomber has been the best player in the world for one game here and there.
He's the most inconsistent player I can think of in SC2...
Wtf? Theres people putting HuK ahead of Genius? lol..
Protoss:
1. MC
2. Genius
3. Squirtle/PartinG (can't decide whether squirtle or parting in last slot yet).
Honorable mention to Naniwa and HerO, but I wouldn't quite put them up there with the other 3.
Still way too many people forgetting Genius in this thread. Made Code S finals, put out an insane run against DRG in the finals.. And was one of those players that consistently made Code S.
On December 06 2012 17:39 Vindicare605 wrote: I'm sorry you guys but there's no way you can have a Mount Zergmore without Fruitdealer on it.
He was the George Washington of Zerg. He won the first GSL when EVERYONE was convinced Zerg was completely underpowered, he introduced the first major blockbuster playstyle in SC2 history (the Baneling Carpetbomb)
He's the first GSL Champion EVER.
I know that there are Zergs now with more titles, or more money and there's probably several that are straight up better than him, but there's no denying the impact that Fruitdealer has had on SC2's history. Only Nestea is a more storied player of that race.
Fruitdealer and Nestea are on mount Zergmore, That isn't debatable. Argue how you want about the other 2 spots, but those two spots are set in stone as far as I'm concerned.
Beating awesome opponents like Inca in PvZ... and LiveForever! And then Rainbow choked in the finals (not that beating Rainbow is an accomplishment anyway)
Rainbow went Mech again a guy known for rushing ultras. Missing a nudys worm that was clearly visible. And of course the famous Scrap Station game where he took an island expand against mutas. Please, Fruitdealer was Cool (get it?) and all but no way does he belong anywhere near Nestea on the awesome scale. Or near DRG, Leenock, etc. for that matter.
FruitDealer is still one of the most iconic players Starcraft 2 ever had.
You can watch early Boxer's Brood War games as well, and they (in particular the way his opponents played) are hilarious to say the least, but nobody would ever consider leaving him out of the Terran lineup of this kind, and easily will put him next to Flash.
Terran- Mvp, MMA, MarineKing. Last spot is tough between Polt and Taeja. I think I'd lean towards Polt though. Protoss- MC, Parting, Hero. Once again, hard to say. Contenders, I think, are Huk, Naniwa, and Squirtle. I think I'd give the edge to Huk since he was one of the very few Protosses to stay at the top for the entirety of 2010 and 2011. Zerg- Nestea, DongRaeGu, Leenock, Stephano. I get wanting Fruitdealer, but it's hard to justify taking any of these four off in his favor.
For one for all the races, Mvp, Nestea, and MC obviously. Last spot between MMA, DongRaeGu, and Marineking. Perhaps it's just my inner fan speaking, but I'd give it to MMA. DongRaeGu would be my next choice.
Terran: Everyone knows why MVP, MMA, MKP, and Polt (Bomber can be inserted into here too) Protoss: MC, Parting, Rain (come on guys), Squirtle (Creator can be inserted into here too) Zerg: DRG, Life, Leenock, Stephano (Nestea is out)
EPT
Terran:
Protoss:
Zerg:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z7Osd.jpg)
