EPTLings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 69
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Arachne
South Africa426 Posts
On December 07 2012 21:38 Derez wrote: Besides the obvious parts that are slightly trollish, it is truly saddening how much of it actually strikes me as true. TvZ used to be the undeniable best matchup in the game. Now it is a complete and total abomination that I can barely bring myself to watch, and I find myself watching less and less of the game in general. The last GSL finals were just depressing and didn´t deliver entertainment, and I find myself skipping more and more tournaments, because honestly, who cares what Z picks up the trophy. Ryung was right when he said what he said, he might not deserved the win, but he should have at least been given a fair chance. If not, I will at some point stop watching because I simply am not entertained by the current metagame in 2 out of the 3 non-mirrors, while non-mirrors should be the most exciting part of watching the game. I agree 100%. Tbh, there are no more exciting non mirrors, PvZ is "can the timing work b4 BL infestor comes out and it goes down into boring turtle fest", TvZ used to be the most exciting with ling bling muta and is now zzzz. PvT is the same thing over and over again. If the 10 minute push doesnt cripple the toss, it goes into MMMGV vs HT collo gateway with double forge and double engin. Most exciting and diverse matchup atm is TvT of all things, as it can either go marine tank, bio or mech. Every other MU has less options. ZvZ is next best with 2 and a half different strats (variatations of roach infestor to roach hydra infestor), and PvP has so many different strats and tbh they aall end up in collosus wars no matter what the opening. The above is all IMHO. I still watch, at least until there are no more foreigners. and Grubby's PvZ is a thing of beauty.  | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Return of the Terrans Proposed Patch Changes Raven Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade. Egg health reduced to 80 (was 100). Just kidding. Still cracks me up. | ||
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Ewok
United States26 Posts
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foxmeep
Australia2320 Posts
HotS proves that Blizzard have absolutely no clue with what they are doing, and that the glory of BW will never be rekindled, unless DB and his team suffer some sort of tragedy. Edit: I find myself playing LoL and watching LoL these days. How sad is that, League of Legends is a better game than SC2 right now... | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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foxmeep
Australia2320 Posts
On December 08 2012 00:35 monkybone wrote: Well, this shows that you clearly are just expressing your own bias without any idea of what you're talking about. This is what David Kim has to say about the mutalisk You seem really bitter towards sc2. Have you played the beta? It's more than enough proof to back my claims. Edit: The beta has practically zero interest from the community. I wonder why.... Edit2: Just because they're starting to do a few minor things right doesn't mean they have any idea what they are doing. All these changes have been driven by US, not them... | ||
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Thurken
961 Posts
What is the best race? For more objective info, let's look at the two most neutral indicators: prize money won and big tournaments won. Above all, progammers wants to win big tournaments and money. Looking at some games in a tournament or in a boX or considering all kind of tournament to make your point better is entertaining, but less neutral. It is good to win some games in a tournament. It is another cattle of fish to win a big tournament or money. Let's look at tournament ranking ( http://www.teamliquid.net/events/ ) and money earning this year ( http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012 ). For some reason, MLG is the land of zerg lately, but every other tournament is not and even with MLG, the stats shows that zerg and protoss are about equal and that terrans are lagging behind in money but not so much in tournaments won. top10 money 2012: protosses 50% of the prizemoney, zergs 43% of the prize money, terrans, 7% of the prizemoney top20 money 2012 (to be less affected by the very best) : protosses 40% of the prizemoney, zergs 37% of the prize money, terrans, 22% of the prizemoney. Last 6 big tournaments : 33% protoss/zerg/terran win Last 12 big tournaments : 33% protoss/zerg/terran win Conclusion : I don't see this zerg dominance you implied. Then why would you not look at the big picture? Let's look at what you say: First you only cite Korean zergs when you want to point out the best zergs in the world and then you say foreign zerg players are patchzergs. Then you cite poor Taeja and Hero losing some games versus supposedly worse opponent. Then you write sentence like "Bogus needs to play perfectly versus slumping opponents", and "to be succesful you have to be in Korea and train like a madman or play zerg". I understand that your love for GSL/revered Koreans and for Liquid aces Taeja and Hero makes you/other whiners angry when a foreigner beat them, but if you put your feelings aside and if you look at the big picture, it is less black and white than that... Sometime I hope Liquid recruit a top zerg player so the whine about zergs can decrease a little bit. | ||
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Piastol
Germany4 Posts
So, because a few "white ppl" (read: Stephano, Idra, Nerchio...) took games of Koreans (read: not all koreans do have the same skill level) you made that huge thread? I give you probs for writing that, its a really good OP, but cmon, thats just a huge balance whining thread. I agree with you, that Z may be a bit OP in some circumstances but I fail to see the difference to other races, let me give you some examples: That 200/200 mech army that T was building on 3 bases for 15 minutes roflstomps any non BL/Infestor Z army? Ridicolous, that can do anyone Fungal denies drops? what about multipronged marine drops, that do win games by themselves? Fungal removes any micro? look at that FF at my ramp. that list continues, big time. It is a bad game design yes, but so are other units/abilitys in this game. Sentry, Infestor, Marine, Roach.... almost everything is flawed in its design, but it works (kinda) Every race in this game has its advantages/disadvanteges, but a BL/infestor army rolls over a marine/tank army and a Thor/Hellion army rolls over a Roach/Ling army. And its proven that BL/Infestor can be beaten (e.g. Vortex, which is bad design, but not an imbalance) And stop this damn "korean terrans are the best players" thats not proven and just a stupid thing to say | ||
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mantequilla
Turkey775 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:45 Piastol wrote: And stop this damn "korean terrans are the best players" thats not proven and just a stupid thing to say I was about to reply seriously, but then I realized you only have three posts. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Piastol
Germany4 Posts
On December 08 2012 02:32 DemigodcelpH wrote: I was about to reply seriously, but then I realized you only have three posts. Well, I may have only three posts, but im playing since beta and was ranked top masters a lot seasons. this "koreans are the best periodly" and "terran players have far more skill then p/z" attitude is really, really old | ||
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YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:03 Wombat_NI wrote: That game was incredible to watch though. Amulet kind of gave us Protoss a crutch when we needed it I suppose, it would be broken as hell now but it did make for really good games in the days that Protoss hadn't figured out other things. Yeah, I can't say what the balance would have been like if they'd nerfed the Colossus instead of the Templar, it could well have been worse, but I'm almost certain the games would have been more entertaining. That brief period is the highlight of StarCraft 2 PvT for me. Which, bringing us back to the subject at hand, is a similar issue we have with ZvT. PvZ has pretty much always varied from mildly entertaining to pretty boring, but for the longest time ZvT was a fantastic matchup to watch. | ||
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JKM
Denmark419 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:45 Piastol wrote: Fungal denies drops? what about multipronged marine drops, that do win games by themselves? Fungal removes any micro? look at that FF at my ramp. If the zerg lose to multipronged marine-drops, he most likely has poorer multi-tasking than the terran and deserves to lose. Forcefields may be broken, but one thing being broken does not justify another thing being even more broken. On December 08 2012 03:35 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Yeah, I can't say what the balance would have been like if they'd nerfed the Colossus instead of the Templar, it could well have been worse, but I'm almost certain the games would have been more entertaining. That brief period is the highlight of StarCraft 2 PvT for me. I think the balance of it would be broken and after a while most people would just be disgusted whenever a newly warped in HT landed a storm ontop of some retreating bio. But then again, colossus are also horrendous to watch and outside of not positioning them poorly there is not much micro to take care of because of the clusterfuck of chargelots, stalkers and sentries blocking bio. | ||
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dnld12
United States324 Posts
On December 04 2012 04:08 sevia wrote: Uh, the last section there is going way overboard. When i read this: + Show Spoiler + Furthermore, it doesn’t matter how the foreigners win, so long as they do. Case in point: when Naniwa beat Flash in the first series at this MLG Dallas, people didn't care that he won in the dumbest way imaginable: nexus cancel into 1 base immortal allin that kills 4 bunkers, seriously? It didn't matter how bad the game design was that allowed that win, fans cheered their hardest because white boy, hated as he may be, beat famous korean boy; all else be damned. It's in Blizzard's interest to keep the SC2 proscene as popular as possible with minimal cost: SC2 is obviously only where it is today because of the popularity and legitimacy of the Broodwar proscene. What better way to do this than rigging it so that the maximum number of foreigners can beat Koreans? If you, a fan, (probably white), can watch tournament A, where white people go 12-5 with code S koreans (NASL 3) and place in the top 3, or tournament B, where white people get mopped up 0-10 by Code A koreans (GESL). The answer is so obvious I don't even need to say it. Which GSL games are the most popular? When Naniwa is dominating. Why did nobody care about IPL4? Because Stephano didn’t win it. Furthermore, regardless of community hatred at the game, white people will still show up to watch white people beat korean people. Admit it, you watched WCS Finals to see mediocre part-time foreigners that practice on NA or Europe take games off of better Protosses and Terrans who practice all day against the best competition (er wait, nevermind, there were no Terrans there). Do you care that almost all of these games were either from stopping a 2 base allin or attack moving with spread broodlords? No, of course not, you were cheering wildly in blissful ignorance. Stream numbers rose, and Blizzard wins. Starcraft 2 dying? Not a chance, so long as foreigners keep beating Koreans. And you can bet Blizzard will do everything to keep the status quo, just as they have been this past year and a half. That status quo is precisely why the infestor hasn’t been gutted. I got very sad. This is not good writing, this is ranting and raving that makes me sad. Sure it may be sarcasm but the use of Sarcasm in this manner still makes me cringe. Sarcasm is not meant to be used in a continuous manner if you want to make an objective stand point. Sarcasm is used to satire. You are trying to mix Straight up analysis with Satire. NOT A GOOD IDEA AT ALL! | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
great post | ||
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RParks42
United States77 Posts
Also, just because the Turtle Hive style is the current norm, does not mean it is standard play. It leaves you very vulnerable for an extended period of time, and of course if you rush Tier 3 tech and aren't punished for it you'll come out almost undoubtedly stronger than your opponent. Ever heard of Creator's PvT Dual-Forge? You sit back and get Robo, two Forges, Twilight, Robo Bay, 3rd base, into Templar Archives. You sit back, upgrade, tech, then expand to the point that you can hold off Terran pushes with minimal amounts of units or splash damage (wow, that Psionic Storm took lots of micro to use). That sounds pretty familiar don't you think? Get upgrades, get tech, make minimal amounts of units, then expand. When one uses their resources for a later pay-off and aren't punished for that decision, it's very hard to lose once said resources start kicking in, regardless of race. | ||
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
I don't think your conspiracy theory is accurate though - I opt for the more boring "blizzard is clueless" explanation. | ||
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