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On December 08 2012 09:12 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 08:21 Gann1 wrote:
What if they just like scrapped sc2 completely and made an HD version of BW instead, wouldn't that be swell
Well it won't happen, just like that suggestion you made. Actually, that wouldn't work. The terrible pathing is inherent to Brood War's gameplay, if you 'fixed' it to what we have in StarCraft II, it would completely wreck the balance and gameplay. But if you didn't, then how many people would really want to play it?
Are we getting rid of the ctrl-1 ctrl-2 ctrl-3 ctrl-4 1-a 2-a 3-a 4-a mini-game? If so a lot.
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Some valid points in the OP, but it is not just Zerg, because the TvP lategame is boring and repetitive as well.
I switched to dota for now, and if blizzard dont get their shit together I might not even bother buying the expansion.
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On December 08 2012 22:56 StoRm_res wrote:
Some valid points in the OP, but it is not just Zerg, because the TvP lategame is boring and repetitive as well.
I switched to dota for now, and if blizzard dont get their shit together I might not even bother buying the expansion.
TvP always been boring. Tvz on the other hand used to be awesome. That DRG vs MMA game, like the best game experience ever (given that I was watching it with boring chinese commentators, and yet I still found it extremelye awesome).
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On December 08 2012 09:12 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 08:21 Gann1 wrote:
What if they just like scrapped sc2 completely and made an HD version of BW instead, wouldn't that be swell
Well it won't happen, just like that suggestion you made. Actually, that wouldn't work. The terrible pathing is inherent to Brood War's gameplay, if you 'fixed' it to what we have in StarCraft II, it would completely wreck the balance and gameplay. But if you didn't, then how many people would really want to play it? As I recall, even before StarCraft II and the match-fixing scandal, viewership numbers for Brood War had been slowly declining. The impression I got was that the fanbase was mostly stagnant - it was difficult for people to start watching the game. Fans could say that the games had never been better than in the age without bonjwas or that Leessang was the pinnacle of StarCraft, but you already needed a good understanding of the game to even get an idea of what was so impressive about it, by and large, we were past the day of Boxer-style entertainment. I'm just speaking from my own experience here though. My initiation to progaming came from a complete cast of a KTF vs. Lecaf Oz proleague series, so I had the benefits of actually having people explaining what was going on, but I still only remember two things from that series: the terrible, overhyped Flash vs Jaedong ace match and an amazing double-cheese game between Tempest and Lomo.
You make the flawed assumption that there's no middle ground between BW pathing and SC2 pathing. Games like AoX or CoH have fine pathing without SC2's absurdities.
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I guess if you write a novel of complete shit you don't get banned like you would for a couple sentences.
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by far the most interesting, if not the best, article i've read on TL since the launch of SC2.
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Northern Ireland174 Posts
great post my dear man, not a whine thread at all. Just found my head noding "yes" to all the points you made. The game has become less fun to watch these last few month. Only thing I will say is that foreigners winning games isn't what I watch SC2 for. I watch for the skill and craftmanship that goes into the builds and strats the best players in the world play. Blizz better not sit on their asses and wait for HoTs to change it up.
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On December 08 2012 23:48 Let it Raine wrote:
I guess if you write a novel of complete shit you don't get banned like you would for a couple sentences.
And it's on the front page too!
But don't be too hard on yourself; At least you're not agreeing with it.
I give up now. For the last time: Lings Of Liberty
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On December 09 2012 00:00 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 23:48 Let it Raine wrote:
I guess if you write a novel of complete shit you don't get banned like you would for a couple sentences.
And it's on the front page too! But don't be too hard on yourself; At least you're not agreeing with it. I give up now. For the last time: Lings Of Liberty
Don't spam, you don't seem to have the correct idea. See Ver's tweet on the matter.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FQFov.png)
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Blizzard should read this post and hire Ver! At least he knows how to do proper statistics and analysis, a concept that is obviously lost on the undereducated fools working at Blizzard. On the other hand, it is a smart move by Blizzard to rig the game, not unlike what happened in Warcraft 3. It levels the playing field a bit.
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Obviously terran needs buffs at the moment but this article is so incredibly one-sided it's hard to take it seriously.
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On December 09 2012 00:06 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 00:00 Penev wrote:On December 08 2012 23:48 Let it Raine wrote:
I guess if you write a novel of complete shit you don't get banned like you would for a couple sentences.
And it's on the front page too! But don't be too hard on yourself; At least you're not agreeing with it. I give up now. For the last time: Lings Of Liberty Don't spam, you don't seem to have the correct idea. See Ver's tweet on the matter.
Did you read the comment I quoted? Of course there's some truth in what Ver's saying. But it's not exactly to be taken seriously is it? Capturing the spirit of our times.
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I've been prowling these forums on and off for years, mostly looking for timings, build advice, etc., and I finally made an account just so I could reply to this post:
The OP makes a few good points about infestor being overpowered and Zerg being more forgiving.
And then he devolves into a flaming rant that is chock full of more blatant racism than I've seen in any gaming forum.
I obviously haven't read every post on this thread (71 pages!) but why are more people not commenting on this?
It's all "white" vs. "Koreans". So, what, non-Korean players are all white? Ludicrous. Koreans are "more intelligent"? I'm sorry, what?
I don't care if this guy was trolling or being serious: this is the most offensive thing I've seen on the Liquid forums.
What is this, the rise of the Korean Panthers?
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United Kingdom260 Posts
To be fair i think most people have given up on WoL and are now focusing on the transition to HOTS. The latest patch has clearly not done enough to change the ways of the zerg dominance and thats just the way it is at the moment.
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No matter how obviously over the top the article is written, sadly there's still some truth in in. Any matchup involving zerg is utterly boring as it always ends up with infestor broodlord fest, while PvP tends to get extremely horrible once it goes past the early game and we have war of the worlds and pew pew battles.
That leaves TvT and TvP as the only good matchups in this game.
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Agreed, i gave up WoL, still buying HoTs to see if balance is changed. Honestly people just want to watch white foreigners win against the almighty koreans, even though there's an obvious skill difference. I liked the game back when Leenock won his first GSL
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On December 08 2012 23:48 Let it Raine wrote:
I guess if you write a novel of complete shit you don't get banned like you would for a couple sentences.
nom nom nom tasty zerg tears...
you like patch bro?
more to come too 
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On December 09 2012 01:13 Odoakar wrote:
No matter how obviously over the top the article is written, sadly there's still some truth in in. Any matchup involving zerg is utterly boring as it always ends up with infestor broodlord fest, while PvP tends to get extremely horrible once it goes past the early game and we have war of the worlds and pew pew battles.
That leaves TvT and TvP as the only good matchups in this game.
TvP is not a good matchup by any stretch of the imagination. The complete and utter shitfest that is TvZ has just overshadowed the complete and utter shit fest that is TvP in the past few months.
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On December 08 2012 21:59 UPro-BW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 21:33 Crypdos wrote:
Apart from the crazy blizzard conspiracy theories, OP has valid points. Zerg is just not zerg anymore. it's more like bw terran turtle style but only need to a move and fungal. No positioning, no dark swarm and no flanks. I think that playing terran in SC2 against z/p is basically like playing bio tvz in bw and then losing to 4 base ultras ticking bomb, and that's very frustrating to anyone involved in both matchups. In bw at least one could put some pressure, Unlike sc2 where Queens, Infestors, speed lings covered by creep negates any kind of early-midgame pressure. Maybe nerfing fungal somehow and reintroducing stack muta micro could help both tvz and pvz matchups
Exactly. Its sit tight and defend until you have 3 bases, make ton of infestors and secure a 4th, build the rest of the supply into broodlords and whoala you win 70% of the time.
In fact I haven't even watched more than 1 match per tournament in at least 4 months, used to watch 4-5 hours of a whole tournament, but the games have just been borefest.
Where are the drops, where are the ultra skilled reaver-shuttle micro, where are the absolutely amazing and terrifying at the same time storms that had you jumping out of your seat in BW, where is the cute and perfect marine-medic micro vs lurker, where is the fun and skillful lurker-dark swarm micro, where is the corsair vs muta micro, where is the muta vs marines micro, where is the stutterstep micro of dragoons and siege tanks, where is the awesome ultra-ling-dark swarm micro, where is the corsair disruption web-shuttle-reaver micro, where is the amazing macro play?
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I honestly do not think the patch really did anything substantial in terms of massing infestors lol. The raven change certainly did nothing except placate players that don't know any better and think a 1 time 150/150 cost going away is a buff to the unit.
But HOTS is so close...maybe they'll just leave the game like this.
edit: and to specify what i mean about the patch not doing anything to nerf mass infestor viability is it only matters in instances where you are in low numbers of infestors and moving into siege/collosus. Once you get 15+ infestors (with brood/corruptor) it's the same as last patch.
I dunno if anyone just saw nerchio vs kas...infestors, infestors, everywhere (and a hilarious end of the game where kas has ravens but can't even use them because fungal/IT spam).
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EPT
