EPTPvZ still looks like bullshit though. A lot of it has to do with the maps, I cannot see how you're able to beat a Muta'ing player on Bel'Shir Vestige SE.
Lings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 101
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
ejozl
Denmark3380 Posts
PvZ still looks like bullshit though. A lot of it has to do with the maps, I cannot see how you're able to beat a Muta'ing player on Bel'Shir Vestige SE. | ||
|
vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 22 2013 20:51 Dvriel wrote: LoL.Did you see yesterday Innovation?? The game on Daybreak was the best TvZ you will ever see.Defending so good,losing the 4th 4-5 times ans still win... INCREDIBLE! Next game Symbol just learned and Innovation had nothing to do.The moment Zerg go heavy Muta/ling/baneling denying Ts expansions,the game is over.As T you cant got the Zs macro and spread your units well enough in each corner to defend,expand and guess what??: Harass! Its just impossible. HotS wont change anything in TvZ.Hellbats are still being nerfed till the ground and T still got no way to harass the triple expanding Z in early... If Blizzard doesn't make any more changes, I would say that hellbats will definitely be an issue for zergs. Although I think that zergs will learn to deal with it better, it at least forces them to get roaches. One of the issues with current WoL meta is that zergs can defend almost all Terran aggression using good wall, Queens and some zerglings which allows them to saturate 3 bases so quickly. | ||
|
Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On February 22 2013 20:51 Dvriel wrote: LoL.Did you see yesterday Innovation?? The game on Daybreak was the best TvZ you will ever see.Defending so good,losing the 4th 4-5 times ans still win... INCREDIBLE! Next game Symbol just learned and Innovation had nothing to do.The moment Zerg go heavy Muta/ling/baneling denying Ts expansions,the game is over.As T you cant got the Zs macro and spread your units well enough in each corner to defend,expand and guess what??: Harass! Its just impossible. HotS wont change anything in TvZ.Hellbats are still being nerfed till the ground and T still got no way to harass the triple expanding Z in early... So basically you're saying the Zerg played better. | ||
|
Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On February 22 2013 20:51 Dvriel wrote: LoL.Did you see yesterday Innovation?? The game on Daybreak was the best TvZ you will ever see.Defending so good,losing the 4th 4-5 times ans still win... INCREDIBLE! Next game Symbol just learned and Innovation had nothing to do.The moment Zerg go heavy Muta/ling/baneling denying Ts expansions,the game is over.As T you cant got the Zs macro and spread your units well enough in each corner to defend,expand and guess what??: Harass! Its just impossible. HotS wont change anything in TvZ.Hellbats are still being nerfed till the ground and T still got no way to harass the triple expanding Z in early... If you are honestly saying that speed medivacs and hellbats don't do anything to TvZ you are quite frankly delusional. | ||
|
CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On February 23 2013 02:30 Assirra wrote: If you are honestly saying that speed medivacs and hellbats don't do anything to TvZ you are quite frankly delusional. What he's saying is that speed medivacs and hellbats aren't going to do anything to keep Zerg from taking their natural and 3rd early, uncontested. After all, both of those units won't come into play until the midgame (especially with the next hellbat patch on the way). So actually, he has a point. On the flip side, reaper harass CAN do something about that. However, history has shown that Blizzard likes to give Zerg a free ticket to the midgame by default, and so it's still likely to be changed. Therefore, I'm not going to keep my fingers crossed. | ||
|
keglu
Poland485 Posts
On February 22 2013 06:41 Big J wrote: matches don't count for winrate. They are already a product of winrate. It's a normal statistical effect that match winrates are higher than winrates... If winrates swing, matchwinrates naturally swing even harder and the longer you make series, the bigger the difference between winrate and match winrate will become. So how did you do it to get the 55%? To get the Team League and Blizzard Cup Results in the stats I manually added League+GSL sponsor results and calculated it: 52.9355% for ZvT The situation after May was missing tons and tons of games... As far as I remember the people who made those stats said themselves that they are not to be taken seriously... Still above 2k of games. I'm pointing towards Korea, because it is also relevant. The International Stats are flawed as hell as well, because the feature tons of stupid results of "Pro vs Amateur" players from online cups. Guess who wins those games regardless of balance? The Pro player. Guess what happens in the stats? They always tend towards 50-50 as they get "smoothed out" by a great deal from balance irrelevant games. First of all post patch ZvT in Korea is 61% so i have no idea why would you want to use Korea stats to prove that post patch ZvT was better than prepatch. Thats more lopsided result than any month for 12 months back in Korea Second of all im pretty sure sample size of 100 games is not enogh to get releveant results. But be my quest and try make some conlusions from for example february - may ZvT winrates going 43,57,45,61 in Korea. You can look at the flawed Korean or the flawed International stats in the end "only" picking one is cherrypicking. Not really, international results includes Korean results, i use all data available. And if you think I'm cherry picking with my comments above... I was not. I was adding stuff to your two or three evidences for balance, that you somehow forgot. I'm not saying that those are all the things out there to be considered... In the end we don't have "one tool" to determine balance. However closing your eyes to 50% Terran distribution and the top 10 TvZ/ZvT winrates only featuring one Zerg(DRG) in late2011/early 2012 (there was some thread about this, how basically every Code S Terran had TvZ as his best matchup) is just as wrong as denying that Zergs are overrepresentated in the later rounds of GSL and there being a miraculous rise of many "previously average" Zergs to suddenly play for premier tournament titles. These al lTvZ specialist were included in TLPD results I was basing my opinion on. So logically to bring results to 50% there had to be some ZvT specialist like for example all non Koreans... I would want clarify something. In your opinion TvZ was most balanced in what period of WoL. Also was it more balanced in last half of a year then in january-april of 2012? | ||
|
Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
 | ||
|
Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On February 23 2013 03:12 Prplppleatr wrote: So now that HOTS is coming can we get a patch terran and patch toss thread going , please Actually most of the current Top Terran's for the last 2 years have been "Patch Terrans" Dont forget they all got a free ride to victory when Khaydarin Amulet was removed from the game. Simple fact of life i guess | ||
|
aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On February 23 2013 03:12 Prplppleatr wrote: So now that HOTS is coming can we get a patch terran and patch toss thread going , please Maybe if we see foreigners play Terran and win games against Koreans, and isn't Thorzain. | ||
|
quebecman77
Canada133 Posts
On February 23 2013 03:58 aksfjh wrote: Maybe if we see foreigners play Terran and win games against Koreans, and isn't Thorzain. foreigner pro play terran ? i was thinking that was a korean thing only usualy foreigner are zerg and protoss | ||
|
DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
On February 23 2013 03:58 aksfjh wrote: Maybe if we see foreigners play Terran and win games against Koreans, and isn't Thorzain. And it's not TvT. | ||
|
NexCa
Germany954 Posts
| ||
|
covetousrat
2109 Posts
Top 5 foreigners and top 5 Koreans? 9/10 Zergs lol. | ||
|
vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 23 2013 03:12 Prplppleatr wrote: So now that HOTS is coming can we get a patch terran and patch toss thread going , please Actually, they will be expansion terran and expansion toss | ||
|
M.R. McThundercrotch
United States265 Posts
On February 23 2013 03:58 aksfjh wrote: Maybe if we see foreigners play Terran and win games against Koreans, and isn't Thorzain. Jinroooooooo! | ||
|
NexCa
Germany954 Posts
On February 28 2013 16:44 covetousrat wrote: Anyone notice the TLPD on the right side? Top 5 foreigners and top 5 Koreans? 9/10 Zergs lol. I "GUESS" there's a reason for that ... just a GUESS ... :D | ||
|
nomyx
United States2205 Posts
| ||
|
Account252508
3454 Posts
| ||
|
nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On March 04 2013 07:27 monkybone wrote: Zergs have got used to a certain meta in which they were favored, so HotS will naturally be harder to adjust to for them than for other players. Thus it might create the false impression that Zerg is underpowered, and lead blizzard into nerfing T and P accordingly. Given time, we might just have another WoL in our hands. I wouldn't be surprised. I can see reapers being nerfed because zerg can't hold them with hatch-hatch-pool | ||
|
Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 04 2013 07:27 monkybone wrote: Zergs have got used to a certain meta in which they were favored, so HotS will naturally be harder to adjust to for them than for other players. Thus it might create the false impression that Zerg is underpowered, and lead blizzard into nerfing T and P accordingly. Given time, we might just have another WoL in our hands. This looks like a defense in case it ends up imbalanced after all. Can we wait at least for the dam gane to release? | ||
| ||
