• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:58
CEST 01:58
KST 08:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event5Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster11Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
HSC 27 players & groups The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Jumy Talks: Dedication to SC2 in 2025, & more... Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series EWC 2025 Online Qualifiers (May 28-June 1, June 21-22)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Preserving Battlereports.com Where is effort ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Social coupon sites UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 665 users

Lings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 102

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 100 101 102 103 Next
vaL4r
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany240 Posts
March 10 2013 19:38 GMT
#2021
This writeup is insane, well done I enjoyed it very much: + Show Spoiler +
On December 04 2012 03:58 Ver wrote:
The way Blizzard has masterminded such a phenomenon is twofold. First, Terran, is specifically made extremely difficult to play and brutally unforgiving against both other races. Alongside this designation of Terran as the token punching bag, Zerg has been crafted to be the white man race with the buffing of the infestor. The fungal growth/infested terran combo makes it so that Zergs can recover from multiple blunders if their opponent looks away for a second or less and gets fungaled, while their opponents can never make any real “errors” or they almost instantly give away the game. Protoss meanwhile sits in the middle: very easy to play mechanically, but not nearly as forgiving as Zerg.

Second, Blizzard has clearly designed that certain races are strictly superior in the lategame, again in the order of Z>P>T. When this hegemony was interrupted thanks to that rascal Mvp and his ghosts, Blizzard promptly relegated the ghost to the dumpster. It should be also noted that virtually all major foreigner wins over Koreans - sans PvZ, for obvious reasons - came either from winning an early game coinflip or more often, the lategame. The midgame is where you have the greatest opportunity to outplay your opponent in any non-PvZ matchup, and not surprisingly, is the area where foreigners can’t win at.

Is it just a coincidence that Zerg is the race that is both the most forgiving overall and has the best lategame? Is it also a coincidence that Terran is the least forgiving overall and has the worst lategame? I think not. These two features make it so that Terrans can virtually never come back from a disadvantage, a key feature that normally allows better players to consistently win versus lesser ones. The reverse holds true for Zerg naturally, hence why Korean Zergs have lost by far the least against foreigner Terrans and Protoss. Nowadays, the best Terrans and Protoss are those who never make any mistakes, because when they do, there is no coming back despite how godly they may be. MMA made copious amounts of errors in his prime; fortunately, he could make up for it with overall brilliant play. That is no longer possible. But Zergs? They can blunder all day now, so long as they don't die before hive. Sooner or later, they will be able to get a fungal off. Then, they proceed to win the game.

Now, you may ask, what direct proof is there, as if this compelling argument was not ironclad in itself? Why, the most convincing of all: a single isolated statement, translated from Korean to boot.
Show nested quote +

Any players in particular you are interested in?

Show nested quote +

Darth Kim, Mastermind, wrote:


I love SKT1 Rain, LG-IM MVP, AcerScarlett and EG Stephano. I hope Stephano wins the WCS.

Hint: 2 white Zergs, 1 Korean Terran, 1 Korean Protoss. He "hopes" the white Zerg wins.
Case closed.




A Plea:


I write this article and expose this unpleasant truth as a plea to Blizzard: I beseech you, leaders of the mighty empire, to strengthen fungal growth even more. Indeed, your wise patches have propelled legions of white Zergs to previously undreamed of results. However, there is an unintended side effect: what happens when almost all the high Korean finishers are Zerg too? Yes, infestors lower the ZvZ skill ceiling so that much that it even lets patchzergs beat GSL champions occasionally; unfortunately, this occurs too infrequently. IPL5 had an all-Korean top 12, and MLG Dallas an all-Korean top 8, and their viewercount suffered greatly as a result. This occurred mostly because top Korean Zergs knocked out all the patchzergs. Thus if we want ESPORTS to succeed, fungal must be improved even more so that white Zergs are all but guaranteed podium places. Otherwise, as we have seen at MLG, IPL, and GSL, once only Korean Zergs remain everyone quits watching.

I profess, from the bottom of my noble heart, that I have no ulterior motive for writing this. I am, after all, simply a humble part-time white Terran; naturally I gain no benefit from such a fungal buff. While obviously I want some easy wins over better players too, I publish this because I am willing to sacrifice future prize money for the greater success of my fellow white brethren, and thus for ESPORTS! as a whole.
You need to play starcraft with a light heart. If you play with a heavy heart, you can't win. -NaDa
Thrillz
Profile Joined May 2012
4313 Posts
March 14 2013 06:00 GMT
#2022
Like how eventual changes weeded out the bad Terrans in the begining of WoL, HotS would tell us who the truly good Zergs are.
Mongolbonjwa
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland376 Posts
March 14 2013 06:11 GMT
#2023
This whole patchzerg thing is stupid. First of all, the queen change is not that big deal and by that logic you should call all protos/terran wins patch wins since you could argue that all wins are affected by some patch change.
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
March 14 2013 06:16 GMT
#2024
On March 14 2013 15:00 Thrillz wrote:
Like how eventual changes weeded out the bad Terrans in the begining of WoL, HotS would tell us who the truly good Zergs are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zerg in HOTS is even more powerful than in WoL. I don't think it'll be telling us who the truly good Zerg players are for the time being.
Sakray
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
France2198 Posts
March 14 2013 06:16 GMT
#2025
On March 14 2013 15:11 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
This whole patchzerg thing is stupid. First of all, the queen change is not that big deal and by that logic you should call all protos/terran wins patch wins since you could argue that all wins are affected by some patch change.


Errrrr, no.
Zennith
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States795 Posts
March 14 2013 06:22 GMT
#2026
On March 14 2013 15:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2013 15:00 Thrillz wrote:
Like how eventual changes weeded out the bad Terrans in the begining of WoL, HotS would tell us who the truly good Zergs are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zerg in HOTS is even more powerful than in WoL. I don't think it'll be telling us who the truly good Zerg players are for the time being.



Lol. Have you even played hots yet? It's not even close to that.
Sentinel Gaming Competitive Team Manager | 1500+ points Masters Zerg | twitch.tv/zennith6
SayfT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia298 Posts
March 14 2013 06:25 GMT
#2027
I wonder if we will see something similar near the end of HOTS? Although optimistically I hope we won't and the game would be balanced (thus implying no "Heart of race X, vengeance of race X thread) but at the same time I am curious to see the possibility! guess we will see it all near the end of HOTS!
For no man will ever turn homewards from beyond Vega to greet again those he knew and loved on Earth
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3291 Posts
March 14 2013 06:38 GMT
#2028
On March 14 2013 15:22 Zennith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2013 15:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On March 14 2013 15:00 Thrillz wrote:
Like how eventual changes weeded out the bad Terrans in the begining of WoL, HotS would tell us who the truly good Zergs are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zerg in HOTS is even more powerful than in WoL. I don't think it'll be telling us who the truly good Zerg players are for the time being.



Lol. Have you even played hots yet? It's not even close to that.


Oh zennith.... i thought of a new build 5 stargates on 3 bases and skipping wg tech.
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
Greenwizard
Profile Joined June 2012
48 Posts
March 14 2013 07:01 GMT
#2029
Well we can't say zergs are weak at the moment, we need a while to see how things will evolve .... who knows maybe instead of zerlings we will get kerrigens )
ke_ivan
Profile Joined February 2011
Singapore374 Posts
March 14 2013 07:35 GMT
#2030
I very much enjoyed reading that conspiracy theory! Thank you!
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
March 14 2013 09:49 GMT
#2031
--- Nuked ---
Mongolbonjwa
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland376 Posts
March 14 2013 09:50 GMT
#2032
BLinfestor did not change in queen patch.
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
March 14 2013 09:53 GMT
#2033
On March 14 2013 18:50 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
BLinfestor did not change in queen patch.


blinfestor was op to begin with patch just made it 100x easier to get there...
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-14 10:01:55
March 14 2013 09:56 GMT
#2034
--- Nuked ---
Mongolbonjwa
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland376 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-14 14:35:38
March 14 2013 09:57 GMT
#2035
The queen patch was not that big change.
Thalandros
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Netherlands1151 Posts
March 14 2013 10:22 GMT
#2036
I'm not sure why we are still discussing patchzerg-ism because that is mostly fixed(?), but instead talk about Terran and their rediculiously overpowered units! :p
|| ''I think we have all experienced passion that is not in any sense reasonable.'' ||
lost_artz
Profile Joined January 2012
United States366 Posts
March 14 2013 10:35 GMT
#2037
Surprised this thread hasn't been closed considering WoL is now a thing of the past thanks to HotS.
Aserrin
Profile Joined October 2011
Uruguay231 Posts
March 17 2013 04:21 GMT
#2038
Goodbye 2012 WoL, you won't be missed.
Nerski
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1095 Posts
March 17 2013 05:30 GMT
#2039
Why dig up such a now irrelevant thread.
Twitter: @GoForNerski /// Youtube: Youtube.com/nerskisc
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-17 09:40:32
March 17 2013 08:47 GMT
#2040
@op: not sure if you are trolling. You only have graphs to the foreigner vs korean scene, not to the koreans vs koreans, which would be the relevant part (after you said that foreign terrans never were successful). Then you say that terran is the least forgiving race, while we have seen hundreds of times how toss died because the forcefields werent 100% perfect but just 90% and how terrans held all-ins and pushes with just 3 marines, a bunker and a bunch of scvs, or how their natural was conquered, their main seized and it is not a problem because the wall-in stands and the natural flies. And ignore completely that by the time zerg got the buff they were almost extinct in code s.

Dont get me wrong, wol fungal is a horrible spell and the infestor a boring unit. Toss has a whole army of such units. The patch heavily influenced how fast zerg could get infestor blord. However, most of the korean patchzergs are really good players, while most of the terrans during gomTvT were not. Gotta love how 20/32 players in code s and 4/4 in the semifinals in one of the months where "the future looked great" were terrans. Really interesting when the racial distribution graph is completely blue.

Which explains the real problem: Terran-fans slowly realized that after the patch their race wasnt the totally dominating race anymore. A racial distribution that isnt 50%blue at least has to be imbalanced, since it is a drastic change. Good thing that we get Marinecraft:HotT and everything goes back to normal now.

@stable matchups and sinking viewership: was bound to happen. The whole balancing around power units instead of hard-counters can only lead to stable matchups once everything is found out.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Prev 1 100 101 102 103 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft548
Livibee 141
NeuroSwarm 126
ProTech64
RuFF_SC2 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 816
Aegong 32
LancerX 24
NaDa 5
Dota 2
capcasts308
League of Legends
Grubby6139
Counter-Strike
summit1g9267
Stewie2K1165
Foxcn222
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox586
Mew2King126
AZ_Axe124
Liquid`Ken65
Other Games
FrodaN1543
shahzam1027
monkeys_forever515
Maynarde165
ViBE162
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick848
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 77
• davetesta8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler48
League of Legends
• Doublelift5233
Other Games
• imaqtpie1380
• Scarra655
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2m
The PondCast
10h 2m
Replay Cast
1d
HomeStory Cup
1d 11h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs ByuN
HomeStory Cup
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV European League
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.