EPTStephano: "I really don't like to take risks" - Page 9
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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Anta
Germany434 Posts
On November 29 2012 01:44 Arceus wrote: I dont see how could people compare Stephano to figures like Agassi, Ronaldinho, TMac etc just to show how much of a genius he is. These athletes played the best of their respective sport and are widely regarded as the best. Meanwhile, Stephano never played the best starcraft in the world and refused to play in the hardest league. Theres nothing to admire about his talent cuz the guy is only a minor leagues player rofl he has beaten players who were supposed to be the best in the world multiple times. he is the only foreigner with over 200.000 $ in prize money. the next best foreigner has not even above 100.000 $. he playes many tournaments around the world with always some of the best players in the world in it. if you play more tournaments your style can be countered more easily because more players can try to adept your style. but for you he is only a minor league player. trololol wtf is wrong with you guys. | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
But thank you for putting up such an long interview. Team Acer is really a good source for interviews etc. It seems like they are putting alot of effort into...good stuff | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
fun is all a matter of opinion. In my opinion SC2 is more fun than bw. and yeah I foresee Stephano falling off the radar pretty soon, I mean, he got knocked out by IdrA of all people at BWC. | ||
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Kilby
Finland1069 Posts
Even though the following is a very simplified example and I'm not saying this is exactly what the situation is with Stephano, I think in principle this is a good way to describe two completely different ways to approach the game and based on the interview I would say that out of these two, Stephano likes to follow Path 1: PATH 1: Use the strategy that you have determined to be the strongest for each match up + if you are a good player, this probably wins against most players who are not actively trying to counter this specific strategy - loses to opponents who are specifically going for cheesy, risky or otherwise surprising strategies that counter this strategy but would not necessarily be good against some other, 2nd of 3rd best strategy of a good player PATH 2: Use 2-4 strategies that you have determined to be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th stongest strategies in each match up and then vary between those strategies + if you are a good player, even if you are using the 4th strongest strategy you might win simply because your opponent is not able to come up with luck, cheese, or blind counter -based strategies that would be the direct counter to your strategy - most of the time when you are not using the strongest strategy you know you are automatically at a disadvantage from the very beginning of the game if your opponent is also good and using the strongest strategy I think Path 1 is the best option to choose when you are playing random players who do not know you and your playstyle in advance, like on ladder, for example. But for a pro player that is well known and plays in tournaments, Path 2 should overall lead to a better result (assuming that the result is what matters to you). Again, this is just my opinion and the above is clearly a simplified example but overall I think it pretty well describes two different playstyles and two different ways to approach the game. Path 1 is more aimed at playing the best Starcraft you can and Path 2 is more aimed at showing the best win/loss ratio for a tournament player. I guess it's simply if you want to play the game or the player. | ||
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ChrysaliS_
United States261 Posts
On November 29 2012 01:54 Anta wrote: rofl he has beaten players who were supposed to be the best in the world multiple times. he is the only foreigner with over 200.000 $ in prize money. the next best foreigner has not even above 100.000 $. he playes many tournaments around the world with always some of the best players in the world in it. if you play more tournaments your style can be countered more easily because more players can try to adept your style. but for you he is only a minor league player. trololol wtf is wrong with you guys. All he's ever done is dominate foreigners and go about 50-50 with good koreans on foreign turf. You can't compare the results of foreign tournaments to GSL and now OSL performance. He is a minor leaguer by choice. | ||
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
On November 29 2012 02:52 ChrysaliS_ wrote: All he's ever done is dominate foreigners and go about 50-50 with good koreans on foreign turf. You can't compare the results of foreign tournaments to GSL and now OSL performance. He is a minor leaguer by choice. This exactly. You'd think that with EG shelling out loads of money for someone like Stephano.. That he would be motivated to be the best possible player and compete and win in the best possible leagues (GSL/OSL).. But he refuses to, even with how much he's making. And whats this? He doesn't want to compete at GSL because he doesn't think he'll get that far? Ohhh cry me a river baby. Look at Naniwa.. Did he think he would get that far in GSL? Yet Stephano continues to dodge. The guy has no motivation whatsoever. | ||
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:10 Enzymatic wrote: This exactly. You'd think that with EG shelling out loads of money for someone like Stephano.. That he would be motivated to be the best possible player and compete and win in the best possible leagues (GSL/OSL).. But he refuses to, even with how much he's making. And whats this? He doesn't want to compete at GSL because he doesn't think he'll get that far? Ohhh cry me a river baby. Look at Naniwa.. Did he think he would get that far in GSL? Yet Stephano continues to dodge. The guy has no motivation whatsoever. I'd rather say he has different motivations. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
The tournament dynamics are completely different and this would have to change. It's the same deal with Greg when he switched back to the U.S. GSL/OSL or more opportunity?" GSL/OSL or more opportunity? That's only the start of it. This is one of the reasons I want to try and tie everything together so every player gets equal opportunity. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
However, his play is meticulously planned, and whenever he has time or shortly before important tournaments, he'll sit down and practice for hours straight, though still nothing compared to the *daily schedule* of Korean progamers. To all the people raving about Stephano being a "genius" and "hardly practicing," honestly SC2 is easy enough of a game mechanically and mentally that practicing for 10+ hours a day doesn't push skills forward except maybe marginally. Nothing in SC2 approaches the mechanical virtuosity and aptitude demonstrated by Korean S class BW pros, who've mastered every facet of control, who've conditioned themselves to have multiple clocks ticking by the second in their heads, who know every single timing of almost every viable situation in and out. Honestly, Suppy and Stephano aren't even that special. A lot of the little Korean 14-15 kids that routinely wreck the later stages of Code S, and even win silver and gold titles are *full time secondary school students* subject to Korea's rigorous secondary school class schedule. Some of these little kids like Life, Leenock, Creator, and Maru have even mentioned the impact that going to school full time have had on their practice. Yeah, little kids pick things up very quickly, and there were fewer but existent successful young BW players, and Stephano and Suppy themselves are rather young, but all of these examples just show that many pros have found success with light practice routines. | ||
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budar
175 Posts
I play around 50-100 games a season and have been mid masters EU in every season except one when I didn't play. I'm not saying the skill level of mid masters is anywhere near the level of top pros, but a 100 games per season averages probably ~25 minutes of playing per day (which is nowhere near 3-4 hours either). | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:39 chenchen wrote: For those of you who'd perhaps like to read an anecdote regarding amount of practice and skill, I currently live with EGSuppy at a house near where we go to school and he, as a full time student at Berkeley who currently holds a 4.0 and is involved in multiple club activities, *barely touches the game* compared to the Koreans and top foreigners against whom he typically performs rather well. However, his play is meticulously planned, and whenever he has time or shortly before important tournaments, he'll sit down and practice for hours straight, though still nothing compared to the *daily schedule* of Korean progamers. To all the people raving about Stephano being a "genius" and "hardly practicing," honestly SC2 is easy enough of a game mechanically and mentally that practicing for 10+ hours a day doesn't push skills forward except maybe marginally. Nothing in SC2 approaches the mechanical virtuosity and aptitude demonstrated by Korean S class BW pros, who've mastered every facet of control, who've conditioned themselves to have multiple clocks ticking by the second in their heads, who know every single timing of almost every viable situation in and out. Honestly, Suppy and Stephano aren't even that special. A lot of the little Korean 14-15 kids that routinely wreck the later stages of Code S, and even win silver and gold titles are *full time secondary school students* subject to Korea's rigorous secondary school class schedule. Some of these little kids like Life, Leenock, Creator, and Maru have even mentioned the impact that going to school full time have had on their practice. Yeah, little kids pick things up very quickly, and there were fewer but existent successful young BW players, and Stephano and Suppy themselves are rather young, but all of these examples just show that many pros have found success with light practice routines. thats why I think the KeSPA players might push the skill ceiling to a new height. I dont know what it looks like, but players like Bogus has already shown a glimpse of next level control and timing | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:45 Arceus wrote: thats why I think the KeSPA players might push the skill ceiling to a new height. I dont know what it looks like, but players like Bogus has already shown a glimpse of next level control and timing no matter how good a player is, randomness still exists in SC2 where a inferior player who practices 2 hours a day will have a shot against a player who practices 12 hours a day because they chose the right "strategy". | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On November 29 2012 04:21 zerious wrote: no matter how good a player is, randomness still exists in SC2 where a inferior player who practices 2 hours a day will have a shot against a player who practices 12 hours a day because they chose the right "strategy". it's only random if you don't scout or don't plan ahead i.e. sees Protoss taking two gases early, but blows all orbital energy on mules and not building an engi bay, then rage quits when gets hit by DT etc. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:31 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: GSL is great but it's not the holy competition either, like OSL/MSL were in broodwar. The money and the attention is in the US/europe, korea is simply not the mecca of esports like it used to be. I would rather travel all around the world and have my own apartment than stay in korea and sleep in some weird progaming house surrounded by people you can't talk with due to language barrier. I'd highly disagree. GSL is the holy grail of competition in SC2, especially for a foreigner. Any foreigner who makes it to Ro8 of GSL will get far far more attention than a Ro8 at any other tournament. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Compare that to Protoss and Terran where they have to learn multiple openings, aggressive timings, etc. to keep opponents guessing, and it would be no surprise if Protoss and Terran required more practice to perform at the highest levels. I've never really been a fan of stephano myself, though I do like how he doesn't really put on a facade to the public and just tells things how he sees them in interviews. People seem to have latched onto him as the foreign-hope or whatever but I really do not think he will survive the meta shift when HotS comes out due. People who think Stephano would do well in GSL is clearly not thinking straight. The format structure for the GSL would destroy him as people would gameplan against his style to the n'th degree and he has said so himself multiple times. | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:39 chenchen wrote: For those of you who'd perhaps like to read an anecdote regarding amount of practice and skill, I currently live with EGSuppy at a house near where we go to school and he, as a full time student at Berkeley who currently holds a 4.0 and is involved in multiple club activities, *barely touches the game* compared to the Koreans and top foreigners against whom he typically performs rather well. However, his play is meticulously planned, and whenever he has time or shortly before important tournaments, he'll sit down and practice for hours straight, though still nothing compared to the *daily schedule* of Korean progamers. To all the people raving about Stephano being a "genius" and "hardly practicing," honestly SC2 is easy enough of a game mechanically and mentally that practicing for 10+ hours a day doesn't push skills forward except maybe marginally. Nothing in SC2 approaches the mechanical virtuosity and aptitude demonstrated by Korean S class BW pros, who've mastered every facet of control, who've conditioned themselves to have multiple clocks ticking by the second in their heads, who know every single timing of almost every viable situation in and out. Honestly, Suppy and Stephano aren't even that special. A lot of the little Korean 14-15 kids that routinely wreck the later stages of Code S, and even win silver and gold titles are *full time secondary school students* subject to Korea's rigorous secondary school class schedule. Some of these little kids like Life, Leenock, Creator, and Maru have even mentioned the impact that going to school full time have had on their practice. Yeah, little kids pick things up very quickly, and there were fewer but existent successful young BW players, and Stephano and Suppy themselves are rather young, but all of these examples just show that many pros have found success with light practice routines. To me, Stephano is interesting because he had a lax practice routine, even at its peak, and still accomplished just as much as the very best Korean pros and at present he's not practicing at all, even prior to important tournaments, yet until very recently he's still been doing better than just about everyone in the world. I'm sure there are a lot of EU and NA pros who play even less than 3 hours a day (like Suppy if your post is to be believed), but who cares about them? They've accomplished as a group absolutely nothing of note, and anyone who brags about how little he practices when he's not winning any tournaments or accomplishing anything important is a clown. With Stephano it's forgivable because the guy shows up and wins, and is clearly usually the most talented guy in the room. I don't know how much Creator, Life and Leenock practice habits but school, unless you're trying to graduate early, have a job or a shit load of activities and extremely difficult class load, is not that time intensive and you always have the weekends free. If you're OK with a busy schedule, going to school should not be too much of a chore and you should have tons of down time, even if you're taking school seriously. Also, Life didn't have his break out until he joined Startale and started buckling down. Until that point he was just an inconsistent fringe Code A player with lots of talent. From interviews, Creator seems very serious so I imagine his work ethic eclipses the EU / NA work ethic, which of course is in general a joke (at least when it comes to e-sports), but I'm just speculating. I have no idea what Leenock does for practice. Also, I think SC2 does require a fair amount of practice at the very highest levels. The KESPA pros are already showing better mechanics in certain aspects of the game -- Flash's 2-2 pushes already look as good if not better than Bomber's (faster with more stuff), SoO's creep spread is the best in the game, etc. If the KESPA pros generally eclipse the ESF pros (which is happening at a reasonable clip given that they just started playing) that will be a strong argument that SC2 in fact does require a tremendous amount of practice in order to excel at it. | ||
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