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As a spectator, what's most important isn't win rates, imo. It is how players win, rather than how much.
Zerg victories are practically curb-stomps. Once a Terran or Protoss player is behind, there is absolutely little they can do to come back. When Terrans/Protoss win in such a fashion, its almost always against non-brood/infestor army.
I'm just sick of watching top-notch players look like they're gold league when they have to face BL/infestor composition.
/edit
Let's say two players are evenly matched in terms of skills and we have a very back and forth mid-game. Then broodlords show up and non-zergs are playing with a hand tied up.
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what if 1 broodling unstead of 2 ?
or what if brood lings 0 range attack?
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My 2 cents is that sentries shouldn't be immune, but WP being immune is good for the game.
Infestors are too good at everything, slightly decreasing their anti harass capabilities is a good thing imo.
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On November 25 2012 05:55 plogamer wrote:
As a spectator, what's most important isn't win rates, imo. It is how players win, rather than how much.
Zerg victories are practically curb-stomps. Once a Terran or Protoss player is behind, there is absolutely little they can do to come back. When Terrans/Protoss win in such a fashion, its almost always against non-brood/infestor army.
I'm just sick of watching top-notch players look like they're gold league when they have to face BL/infestor composition.
/edit
Let's say two players are evenly matched in terms of skills and we have a very back and forth mid-game. Then broodlords show up and non-zergs are playing with a hand tied up.
I really LOVE this post!
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I agree that warp prism should be able to be nerfed, as it would not be fair to Terran medivacs, also because the WP is more dangerous. The fungal growth on sentries I cannot really comment on, but they should be allowed to be fungalled as sentries are meant to be kept safe behind your army, also because no fungal on sentries would encourage a more deathball army, this is all theory crafting by the way lol
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On November 25 2012 06:00 tns wrote:
what if 1 broodling unstead of 2 ?
or what if brood lings 0 range attack?
They already have 0.1 range.
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I can't help but wonder why the zvp match up is treated like an imbalanced one (with z being better than p). Stats show that is even yet the major zerg nerf greatly helps p but doesn't really do anything relevant to T, which would need a bit more.
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On November 25 2012 06:12 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 06:00 tns wrote:
what if 1 broodling unstead of 2 ?
or what if brood lings 0 range attack? They already have 0.1 range.
but it's melee attack... what if guardian shield better vs Broodlings
something like locust very low range to make guardian shield more effective than just psionic units for hive
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On November 25 2012 06:28 tns wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 06:12 TheDwf wrote:On November 25 2012 06:00 tns wrote:
what if 1 broodling unstead of 2 ?
or what if brood lings 0 range attack? They already have 0.1 range. but it's melee attack... what if guardian shield better vs Broodlings something like locust very low range to make guardian shield more effective than just psionic units for hive
Sentries are not are thing once broodlords come out.
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On November 25 2012 05:42 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
I have discussed this extensively and I believe that both would be good changes, BUT the psionic tag on the warp prism needs to be removed. Fungaling a warp prism is CRUCIAL to zerg actually being able to ever kill it. Yet Terrans not being able to kill a Warp Prism with speed upgrade is not a problem? Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
Also, the raven would have to be kept non-psionic. Having a raven be able to cast HSM while fungaled is fine, but complete immunity? That's too far due to the corruptor pathing mechanic of auto-stacking. Yet Fungals being absolutely devastating against Vikings due to their auto-stacking is somehow OK?
Okay, TvP needs some work, we all know T is quite underwhelming. But this has naught to do with infestors.
Current TvZ is more balanced than ZvP or PvT, so it needs less work than those two. Im proposing that both zerg gets the nerf, and T gets the buff, so why are you arguing with me if you play T?
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On November 25 2012 06:59 Twilight Sparkle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 06:28 tns wrote:On November 25 2012 06:12 TheDwf wrote:On November 25 2012 06:00 tns wrote:
what if 1 broodling unstead of 2 ?
or what if brood lings 0 range attack? They already have 0.1 range. but it's melee attack... what if guardian shield better vs Broodlings something like locust very low range to make guardian shield more effective than just psionic units for hive Sentries are not are thing once broodlords come out.
Make broodlings bounce off forcefields!
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On November 25 2012 07:04 lpunatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 06:59 Twilight Sparkle wrote:On November 25 2012 06:28 tns wrote:On November 25 2012 06:12 TheDwf wrote:On November 25 2012 06:00 tns wrote:
what if 1 broodling unstead of 2 ?
or what if brood lings 0 range attack? They already have 0.1 range. but it's melee attack... what if guardian shield better vs Broodlings something like locust very low range to make guardian shield more effective than just psionic units for hive Sentries are not are thing once broodlords come out. Make broodlings bounce off forcefields!
:O
Blizzard! Hire this person, right now!
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On November 25 2012 07:01 FS_SlimJim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 05:42 TheDwf wrote:On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
I have discussed this extensively and I believe that both would be good changes, BUT the psionic tag on the warp prism needs to be removed. Fungaling a warp prism is CRUCIAL to zerg actually being able to ever kill it. Yet Terrans not being able to kill a Warp Prism with speed upgrade is not a problem? On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
Also, the raven would have to be kept non-psionic. Having a raven be able to cast HSM while fungaled is fine, but complete immunity? That's too far due to the corruptor pathing mechanic of auto-stacking. Yet Fungals being absolutely devastating against Vikings due to their auto-stacking is somehow OK? Okay, TvP needs some work, we all know T is quite underwhelming. But this has naught to do with infestors. Current TvZ is more balanced than ZvP or PvT, so it needs less work than those two. Im proposing that both zerg gets the nerf, and T gets the buff, so why are you arguing with me if you play T?
I also think TvZ is much more balanced then TvP. It's funny how casters say about any protoss player that he has a really good PvT, since PvT is the easiest match up in Sc2 and probably the most imbalanced atm. In TvZ comebacks are impossible once you fall behind, but in TvP you are automaticly behind in a standart macro game. Hope blizzard concentrade on this soon.
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Fungal growth to not able to target psionic units is a gimmick and will not change what people is whining about. It will only make them more useless against protoss and harder to stop archon toilets. It will not change anything versus terran, ghost is not used as of now.
It should rather add projectile to fungal growth or something of that sort to make them harder to use.
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On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
Also, the raven would have to be kept non-psionic. Having a raven be able to cast HSM while fungaled is fine, but complete immunity? That's too far due to the corruptor pathing mechanic of auto-stacking.
I find it funny that zergs do not consider the possibility of microing. So you can't split to avoid a 6 range spell that is a slow moving projectile? I wonder what is the difference with terrans having to avoid storm and fungal (9 range, insta cast, prevents movement) with vikings and bio.
Of course, you being zerg, do not consider that there might be something to micro beyond a moving all your army and spamming fungal/infested terran with your infestors. Or for that matter, toss a moving their zealot collosus and spamming storm with their high templars.
TL moderators, ban me for telling the truth, if you will. If it happens, It would not matter because it would mean you are policing people for telling the truth, and I don't want to be a part of such a community. When there is something wrong in the world, you must be free to speak about it without having to worry about Gestapo knocking down your door.
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On November 25 2012 07:23 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 07:21 Elldar wrote:
It will not change anything versus terran, ghost is not used as of now.
1. Why do you think it isn't? 2. It is.
Ghost isn't used outside of trolling or experimentation, because of what people have said earlier in the topic. They're only decent against infestors, and in the late-game composition of BL+infestor, the infestors are protected by broodlings and a small ground army. Since snipe has been neutered against everything else, making more than a handful is a waste, but using only a handful, you'll never get snipes/emps off on the infestors.
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On November 25 2012 07:35 DestinationLiquid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
Also, the raven would have to be kept non-psionic. Having a raven be able to cast HSM while fungaled is fine, but complete immunity? That's too far due to the corruptor pathing mechanic of auto-stacking. I find it funny that zergs do not consider the possibility of microing. So you can't split to avoid a 6 range spell that is a slow moving projectile? I wonder what is the difference with terrans having to avoid storm and fungal (9 range, insta cast, prevents movement) with vikings and bio. Of course, you being zerg, do not consider that there might be something to micro beyond a moving all your army and spamming fungal/infested terran with your infestors. Or for that matter, toss a moving their zealot collosus and spamming storm with their high templars. TL moderators, ban me for telling the truth, if you will. If it happens, It would not matter because it would mean you are policing people for telling the truth, and I don't want to be a part of such a community. When there is something wrong in the world, you must be free to speak about it without having to worry about Gestapo knocking down your door.
Yea, cause broodlords are really microable. The only thing you can do is splitting ahead but that is that.
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On November 25 2012 07:35 DestinationLiquid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 05:32 FS_SlimJim wrote:
Also, the raven would have to be kept non-psionic. Having a raven be able to cast HSM while fungaled is fine, but complete immunity? That's too far due to the corruptor pathing mechanic of auto-stacking. I find it funny that zergs do not consider the possibility of microing. So you can't split to avoid a 6 range spell that is a slow moving projectile? I wonder what is the difference with terrans having to avoid storm and fungal (9 range, insta cast, prevents movement) with vikings and bio.
Nobody can really micro air units not to clump up, especially relatively fast, attack units like vikings and corruptors. Terran pre-split vikings vs fungal and zergs pre-split BL vs HSM/vortex, that's about as much as you can do.
I don't really think Ravens not getting fungaled is such a problem, except maybe when there is just a shit ton of them protected by pdds. But then again, on the rare occasions when that happens (cough** Metropolis** couch) zergs are pretty much dead anyways so....
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EPT
