|
On September 05 2013 18:19 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:16 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:14 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:10 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:08 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:05 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:01 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 17:54 Rassy wrote:On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
[quote]
This is incorrect. There isn't any evidence that shows men taking it more seriously than women, you're making an assumption based on the current situation (which is a result of many things). Hence why comparison is just wrong in these gender issues. What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort? And how is it even a "gender issue" that men perform better than women in esport? Maybe its just statistics. If say 1 in 10.000 people can make pro level, and 1 in 100.000 people can become a pro champion, then with 2million man playing you have 200 pros and 20 champions, with 10k women playing you then have 1 women at pro level and no champions. Female league can motivate and attrackt more female players but i think the effects of it will be extremely small because females already have to go well out of their normal average behaviour to start playing in the first place, they already must have a huge motivation. In chess there are female leagues but they didnt succeed in making more women play chess at all. Though i do think women deserve their own events and championships to at least reward them in some way for their achievements, i dont think this will lead to more female players. It might increase the male player base though lol, but then its for the wrong reasons. Wheres the achivement in defeating a lesser caste of players? Gongratz, you are the best of the worst.. what? I would personally see it as an insult if people made an entire tournament of weak players just so i could win... Also, what is this "normal behavior" that you think females all share? Something along the lines of males always wanting to to play football? We're not highlighting who is the best of a certain class of players, we're highlight minority genders for participating: thus opening up more interested groups and widening the popularity of our eSport. From the past, chess history among other things, we can deduce that female leagues or other minority leagues does infact NOT help for shizzle. All it does is further isolate the minority, and thus "giving" them their achivements. Would you want to be a pro in a sport that see you as an inferior caste of player, to the point of where they make a "special" tournament for you? Creating minority idols further spurs interest from classes of people they are related to. WNBA and Women's Soccer spurs role-models for women to participate and be active in organized sports. Widening the popularity of the sport as spectators and active participants. Be honest here. Why do you think people watch WNBA? Or Women's Soccer? Or Women's handball? Physical sport is a place where males will always dominate because of their superior body. Hence the female leagues will always be niche things. In esport, no such thing are holding you back from becoming good. The goals are the same. The goals of male physical sport, is to crown the best players in the world. The goals of female physical sport, is to crown the best female players in the world.
Regardless of who is the best and who isn't, the results are the same in that they promote the legitimacy of competitive sports and said broadcasting offers a sport culture that can widen if it appeals to the most diversified audiences it can reach.
|
I can do this all day. I can tell you like talking rather than reading.
|
On September 05 2013 18:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:11 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
No one's talking about bringing attention to females being the best of all or best of their class.
That's you and what you're arguing about when they are neither the goal of what we are suggesting nor of our arguments.
You're literally arguing with yourself about something no one else is talking about. No, i'm arguing against the concept of female only leagues, as they are damaging to the very players you wanna help by making them. I'm not even talking about brining them attention, i'm literally arguing that no attention should be on this "issue" at all, since it's not an issue to begin with. There is no harm in doing it, in fact; it only furthers the ultimate goal of eSports as a growing subculture. Which is the whole summary of all my topics: the analysis of eSports as a growing subculture. It's the slogan on the website lol Not sure how offering more opportunities other groups of people, similar to geographic regions, is damaging and the result being negligible (it's not) Your argument's basis is something no one is talking about. The perception that winning in a women's league is detrimental because its somehow comparatively inferior. 1. Comparisons are, by default, slanted and skewed poorly because of the sizes 2. That's not the goal and your personal perception based on point #1: the comparison that isn't right to be done at all.
The comparison is there, because the rule of thumb, that males are generally better at competetive sports(both physical and mental) have not been broken for centuries,
Edit, the comparison in itself, is the male audience's way of measuring how far women have progressed, inaccurate or not.
|
On September 05 2013 18:19 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:01 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 17:54 Rassy wrote:On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Theres nothing thats holding women back from being as good as men in gaming. Personally i think males tend to take it more seriously and work harder for it, kinda like how korean sc2 players are better than most EU players.
This is incorrect. There isn't any evidence that shows men taking it more seriously than women, you're making an assumption based on the current situation (which is a result of many things). Hence why comparison is just wrong in these gender issues. What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort? And how is it even a "gender issue" that men perform better than women in esport? Maybe its just statistics. If say 1 in 10.000 people can make pro level, and 1 in 100.000 people can become a pro champion, then with 2million man playing you have 200 pros and 20 champions, with 10k women playing you then have 1 women at pro level and no champions. Female league can motivate and attrackt more female players but i think the effects of it will be extremely small because females already have to go well out of their normal average behaviour to start playing in the first place, they already must have a huge motivation. In chess there are female leagues but they didnt succeed in making more women play chess at all. Though i do think women deserve their own events and championships to at least reward them in some way for their achievements, i dont think this will lead to more female players. It might increase the male player base though lol, but then its for the wrong reasons. Wheres the achivement in defeating a lesser caste of players? Gongratz, you are the best of the worst.. what? I would personally see it as an insult if people made an entire tournament of weak players just so i could win... Also, what is this "normal behavior" that you think females all share? Something along the lines of males always wanting to to play football? Ya something along that line, Its not realy a secret that verry few women play games and that manny guys like to play football. Off course this does not go always and for everyone... but for the population in general as a whole. There are female leagues in nearly all sports, and their league beeing weaker doesnt realy deter the women from competing in for example tennis or cycling and they dont see it as an insult to have a league for themselves. Its realy silly to see it as an insult imo.
winner
|
On September 05 2013 18:23 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:11 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
No one's talking about bringing attention to females being the best of all or best of their class.
That's you and what you're arguing about when they are neither the goal of what we are suggesting nor of our arguments.
You're literally arguing with yourself about something no one else is talking about. No, i'm arguing against the concept of female only leagues, as they are damaging to the very players you wanna help by making them. I'm not even talking about brining them attention, i'm literally arguing that no attention should be on this "issue" at all, since it's not an issue to begin with. There is no harm in doing it, in fact; it only furthers the ultimate goal of eSports as a growing subculture. Which is the whole summary of all my topics: the analysis of eSports as a growing subculture. It's the slogan on the website lol Not sure how offering more opportunities other groups of people, similar to geographic regions, is damaging and the result being negligible (it's not) Your argument's basis is something no one is talking about. The perception that winning in a women's league is detrimental because its somehow comparatively inferior. 1. Comparisons are, by default, slanted and skewed poorly because of the sizes 2. That's not the goal and your personal perception based on point #1: the comparison that isn't right to be done at all. The comparison is there, because the rule of thumb, that males are generally better at competetive sports(both physical and mental) have not been broken for centuries,
Their genetics allow them to excel. That's something we can't alter and it is because of their sex, not gender, that they are physically better.
It's really beside the point. We're looking to raise minority genders participation in the eSports to further the popularity with relatable people. We want more people to play StarCraft II, not necessarily in tournaments, but with the interest and mindset to be competitively active in smaller stuff or simply to gain more fans of the eSport, despite the reasons.
anyone keeping track how many times I've said this?
|
On September 05 2013 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:19 Rassy wrote:On September 05 2013 18:01 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 17:54 Rassy wrote:On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Theres nothing thats holding women back from being as good as men in gaming. Personally i think males tend to take it more seriously and work harder for it, kinda like how korean sc2 players are better than most EU players.
This is incorrect. There isn't any evidence that shows men taking it more seriously than women, you're making an assumption based on the current situation (which is a result of many things). Hence why comparison is just wrong in these gender issues. What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort? And how is it even a "gender issue" that men perform better than women in esport? Maybe its just statistics. If say 1 in 10.000 people can make pro level, and 1 in 100.000 people can become a pro champion, then with 2million man playing you have 200 pros and 20 champions, with 10k women playing you then have 1 women at pro level and no champions. Female league can motivate and attrackt more female players but i think the effects of it will be extremely small because females already have to go well out of their normal average behaviour to start playing in the first place, they already must have a huge motivation. In chess there are female leagues but they didnt succeed in making more women play chess at all. Though i do think women deserve their own events and championships to at least reward them in some way for their achievements, i dont think this will lead to more female players. It might increase the male player base though lol, but then its for the wrong reasons. Wheres the achivement in defeating a lesser caste of players? Gongratz, you are the best of the worst.. what? I would personally see it as an insult if people made an entire tournament of weak players just so i could win... Also, what is this "normal behavior" that you think females all share? Something along the lines of males always wanting to to play football? Ya something along that line, Its not realy a secret that verry few women play games and that manny guys like to play football. Off course this does not go always and for everyone... but for the population in general as a whole. There are female leagues in nearly all sports, and their league beeing weaker doesnt realy deter the women from competing in for example tennis or cycling and they dont see it as an insult to have a league for themselves. Its realy silly to see it as an insult imo. winner
No, thats not a winner. In his case, the physical sport, women will never be able to compete with men for being the worlds best.
They simply have no chioce but to accept that fact, so yes in that case it's silly to think like that.
However, in esport, or other mental sports, like chess, theres no such handicap given to the female players, hence it would be an insult towards them to make them their own leagues.
|
On September 05 2013 18:24 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:23 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:11 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
No one's talking about bringing attention to females being the best of all or best of their class.
That's you and what you're arguing about when they are neither the goal of what we are suggesting nor of our arguments.
You're literally arguing with yourself about something no one else is talking about. No, i'm arguing against the concept of female only leagues, as they are damaging to the very players you wanna help by making them. I'm not even talking about brining them attention, i'm literally arguing that no attention should be on this "issue" at all, since it's not an issue to begin with. There is no harm in doing it, in fact; it only furthers the ultimate goal of eSports as a growing subculture. Which is the whole summary of all my topics: the analysis of eSports as a growing subculture. It's the slogan on the website lol Not sure how offering more opportunities other groups of people, similar to geographic regions, is damaging and the result being negligible (it's not) Your argument's basis is something no one is talking about. The perception that winning in a women's league is detrimental because its somehow comparatively inferior. 1. Comparisons are, by default, slanted and skewed poorly because of the sizes 2. That's not the goal and your personal perception based on point #1: the comparison that isn't right to be done at all. The comparison is there, because the rule of thumb, that males are generally better at competetive sports(both physical and mental) have not been broken for centuries, Their genetics allow them to excel. That's something we can't alter and it is because of their sex, not gender, that they are physically better. It's really beside the point. We're looking to raise minority genders participation in the eSports to further the popularity with relatable people. We want more people to play StarCraft II, not necessarily in tournaments, but with the interest and mindset to be competitively active in smaller stuff or simply to gain more fans of the eSport, despite the reasons. anyone keeping track how many times I've said this?
But males don't have any genetics that make them superior MENTALLY, to women, in which case one would wonder why males have also dominated mental sports for centuries?
|
On September 05 2013 18:27 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:19 Rassy wrote:On September 05 2013 18:01 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 17:54 Rassy wrote:On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Theres nothing thats holding women back from being as good as men in gaming. Personally i think males tend to take it more seriously and work harder for it, kinda like how korean sc2 players are better than most EU players.
This is incorrect. There isn't any evidence that shows men taking it more seriously than women, you're making an assumption based on the current situation (which is a result of many things). Hence why comparison is just wrong in these gender issues. What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort? And how is it even a "gender issue" that men perform better than women in esport? Maybe its just statistics. If say 1 in 10.000 people can make pro level, and 1 in 100.000 people can become a pro champion, then with 2million man playing you have 200 pros and 20 champions, with 10k women playing you then have 1 women at pro level and no champions. Female league can motivate and attrackt more female players but i think the effects of it will be extremely small because females already have to go well out of their normal average behaviour to start playing in the first place, they already must have a huge motivation. In chess there are female leagues but they didnt succeed in making more women play chess at all. Though i do think women deserve their own events and championships to at least reward them in some way for their achievements, i dont think this will lead to more female players. It might increase the male player base though lol, but then its for the wrong reasons. Wheres the achivement in defeating a lesser caste of players? Gongratz, you are the best of the worst.. what? I would personally see it as an insult if people made an entire tournament of weak players just so i could win... Also, what is this "normal behavior" that you think females all share? Something along the lines of males always wanting to to play football? Ya something along that line, Its not realy a secret that verry few women play games and that manny guys like to play football. Off course this does not go always and for everyone... but for the population in general as a whole. There are female leagues in nearly all sports, and their league beeing weaker doesnt realy deter the women from competing in for example tennis or cycling and they dont see it as an insult to have a league for themselves. Its realy silly to see it as an insult imo. winner No, thats not a winner. In his case, the physical sport, women will never be able to compete with men for being the worlds best. They simply have no chioce but to accept that fact, so yes in that case it's silly to think like that. However, in esport, or other mental sports, like chess, theres no such handicap given to the female players, hence it would be an insult towards them to make them their own leagues.
He understands the overall point and understands that your perception is a personal one because you can't grasp the idea of broadening a sport rather than the competitions within the sport through "weaker" leagues lol
You're focusing on the wrong elements.
|
On September 05 2013 18:28 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:24 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:23 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 18:11 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
No one's talking about bringing attention to females being the best of all or best of their class.
That's you and what you're arguing about when they are neither the goal of what we are suggesting nor of our arguments.
You're literally arguing with yourself about something no one else is talking about. No, i'm arguing against the concept of female only leagues, as they are damaging to the very players you wanna help by making them. I'm not even talking about brining them attention, i'm literally arguing that no attention should be on this "issue" at all, since it's not an issue to begin with. There is no harm in doing it, in fact; it only furthers the ultimate goal of eSports as a growing subculture. Which is the whole summary of all my topics: the analysis of eSports as a growing subculture. It's the slogan on the website lol Not sure how offering more opportunities other groups of people, similar to geographic regions, is damaging and the result being negligible (it's not) Your argument's basis is something no one is talking about. The perception that winning in a women's league is detrimental because its somehow comparatively inferior. 1. Comparisons are, by default, slanted and skewed poorly because of the sizes 2. That's not the goal and your personal perception based on point #1: the comparison that isn't right to be done at all. The comparison is there, because the rule of thumb, that males are generally better at competetive sports(both physical and mental) have not been broken for centuries, Their genetics allow them to excel. That's something we can't alter and it is because of their sex, not gender, that they are physically better. It's really beside the point. We're looking to raise minority genders participation in the eSports to further the popularity with relatable people. We want more people to play StarCraft II, not necessarily in tournaments, but with the interest and mindset to be competitively active in smaller stuff or simply to gain more fans of the eSport, despite the reasons. anyone keeping track how many times I've said this? But males don't have any genetics that make them superior MENTALLY, to women, in which case one would wonder why males have also dominated mental sports for centuries?
Maybe we should have more female leagues to garner more interest in females to play StarCraft and through that, create more equally-mentally strong females that can compete amongst men.
maybe
Like, what you want is exactly what would happen with my suggestion. It's like if I was interested in knowing if African SC2 players were just as good as Koreans. What would be the best way to bring those out and create more competitors and spectators within that region?
|
On September 05 2013 18:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
I can do this all day. I can tell you like talking rather than reading.
I can also go on it all day, because this is more a debate of philosophy than fact.
However i would like to write instead of read, as i like to give myself time to think about my answers, so that they hold true to what i think.
I.e. it would make a VERY slow chat 
btw, brb 30 min, i need to eat.
|
On September 05 2013 18:32 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
I can do this all day. I can tell you like talking rather than reading. I can also go on it all day, because this is more a debate of philosophy than fact. However i would like to write instead of read, as i like to give myself time to think about my answers, so that they hold true to what i think. I.e. it would make a VERY slow chat btw, brb 30 min, i need to eat.
No, it's more of your misperception of the goals.
|
On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:
What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort?
Social expectations and pressure would be my guess.
I mean gaming has come a very, very long way, to the point where a lot of people play games. That said, hardcore gaming is still very much a minority and a niche. Still, competitive gaming is probably at its highest point in terms of worldwide popularity and accessibility, and people are growing increasingly more aware of this phenomenon and are probably a lot more acceptant of it than they were in the 90s and early 00s.
But it's a bit of a vicious circle, because there really aren't many female players at the top level of eSports. I mean in SC2 we have Scarlett, and warranted or not there is still controversy as to whether or not she qualifies as a female player (which to an extent exacerbates the problem of how female gamers are perceived) and... well there are others, but they simply don't have the same results. Brood War had ToSsGirL but a quick glance at her TLPD reveals she wasn't at that level either. So tune in to a big eSports event, what are the odds you're going to see a female players? Will you see one on a top DotA 2 team? On a top LoL team? On a top CS:GO team? Anyone other than Scarlett competing at the top of SC2? Not really...
And because of that, alongside other subcultures and mentalities in gaming that further consolidate these expectations of females in games, the laymen (read: non-gamers and casual gamers a.k.a. the vast majority of people) will find hardcore female gamers very much an oddity and will call them out on it. The prospect of a girl playing something other than flash games/mobile games/the sims/whatever casual games and trying to be competitive and aspiring to be a professional gamer seems to them as outlandish as being a professional gamer at all used to be, say, 15 years ago. It's almost unheard of, even though us hardcore gamers would disagree.
Let's say you're a girl in her late teens/early twenties whose passion for gaming overpowers the interest for other more common and "expected" activities that society thinks your demographic should be into. If you're one of these very very few, what do you face? Well you face social stigma from most real life acquaintances that know you're playing a video game lots and trying to be really good at it, to the point of being called a no-life loser, a freak, an addict and other painfully ignorant bollocks of the like, and then online you face a different kind of stigma entirely, but one that's also owed to the same preconceptions and expectations. (see: "lol you have internet in the kitchen?", "i love you please have my babies", "lol fuck off attention whore", "10/10 would bang" all at the same time before you even have a chance to establish your personality or intentions)
The reason competitive gaming as a whole wasn't so big back in the day is because of social stigma. It was unheard of, and therefore weird, and the people who took part in it were considered weirdos and nerds and outcasts. Of course, the accessibility of gaming and the internet increasing exponentially, coupled with the evolution of trends like the CoD/Halo brodude gaming nights (that we ironically enough despise and make fun of) and other casual games like Minecraft springing to popularity (and all the youtube entertainment/let's play videos that came with that) and most recently the sheer popularity of LoL and DotA 2; all of this has done nothing but further legitimize gaming in the eyes of the laymen, no matter how much some of us hardcore gamers detest it and like to consider far inferior. But if not for such things, and not for the evolution of technology, I think we'd all be "enjoying" the same social stigma and weird looks from the non-gaming crowd.
So the vicious circle can be boiled down to: few if any females in competitive gaming -> people do not expect there to be any females in competitive gaming -> this expectation coupled with the vitriolic and trollish nature of the internet overwhelms most females' desire to seriously pursue their passion for gaming -> few if any females in competitive gaming.
It's a tricky issue to say the least, but there's no doubt in my mind the issue is much more extrinsic than intrinsic.
|
Oof, I didn't want to get into that, but your opening statement is spot-on. I'll read the rest in a bit!
|
On September 05 2013 18:04 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:02 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Theres nothing thats holding women back from being as good as men in gaming. Personally i think males tend to take it more seriously and work harder for it, kinda like how korean sc2 players are better than most EU players.
This is incorrect. There isn't any evidence that shows men taking it more seriously than women, you're making an assumption based on the current situation (which is a result of many things). Hence why comparison is just wrong in these gender issues. What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort? And how is it even a "gender issue" that men perform better than women in esport? You're cherry-picking. You're saying men perform better than women in eSport based on their achievements (and women's lack thereof), but you don't also weigh how many men don't achieve compare to women. Why is that? Stop comparing. I'm comparing becausea bigger player pool does not mean better top players.
Yes it does, thats a statistical law.
|
Yeah, he doesn't read that much
|
The only difference between this and having region locked tournaments is the fan bases. Korea > foreigners. Not because of any genetics but because of culture that makes it easier to develop.
There are tournaments restricted to/for Finnish players. This is fine.
+ Show Spoiler [competitiveness] +I've usually noticed males being more competitive than females. I don't know if this is nature or nurture, but it definitely would effect the development and skill level.
|
On September 05 2013 18:58 DusTerr wrote:
I've usually noticed males being more competitive than females. I don't know if this is nature or nurture, but it definitely would effect the development and skill level.
There most definitely is a biological facet to the issue as well (which needless to say doesn't affect everyone equally; but nevertheless should not be ignored), but the much stronger factor is probably the conditioned one, that is societal expectations and the peer pressure/stigma that results from them.
|
On September 05 2013 18:54 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:04 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 18:02 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 05 2013 17:28 cloneThorN wrote:On September 05 2013 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Theres nothing thats holding women back from being as good as men in gaming. Personally i think males tend to take it more seriously and work harder for it, kinda like how korean sc2 players are better than most EU players.
This is incorrect. There isn't any evidence that shows men taking it more seriously than women, you're making an assumption based on the current situation (which is a result of many things). Hence why comparison is just wrong in these gender issues. What is there to hold females gamers back from being as good as male gamers, besides effort? And how is it even a "gender issue" that men perform better than women in esport? You're cherry-picking. You're saying men perform better than women in eSport based on their achievements (and women's lack thereof), but you don't also weigh how many men don't achieve compare to women. Why is that? Stop comparing. I'm comparing becausea bigger player pool does not mean better top players. Yes it does, thats a statistical law.
If that was true, then EU sc2 players would be better than KR players.
|
On September 05 2013 19:11 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 18:58 DusTerr wrote:
I've usually noticed males being more competitive than females. I don't know if this is nature or nurture, but it definitely would effect the development and skill level. There most definitely is a biological facet to the issue as well (which needless to say doesn't affect everyone equally; but nevertheless should not be ignored), but the much stronger factor is probably the conditioned one, that is societal expectations and the peer pressure/stigma that results from them.
I don't know dude. 30 years ago, being a gamer meant being the scum of earth personified, male or female. Look what it became, even with several times higher peer pressure than female gamers are facing now.
|
On September 05 2013 19:14 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 19:11 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On September 05 2013 18:58 DusTerr wrote:
I've usually noticed males being more competitive than females. I don't know if this is nature or nurture, but it definitely would effect the development and skill level. There most definitely is a biological facet to the issue as well (which needless to say doesn't affect everyone equally; but nevertheless should not be ignored), but the much stronger factor is probably the conditioned one, that is societal expectations and the peer pressure/stigma that results from them. I don't know dude. 30 years ago, being a gamer meant being the scum of earth personified, male or female. Look what it became, even with several times higher peer pressure than female gamers are facing now.
Read my longer post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
