Look at the top players in this list. Besides Fatal1ty who plays multiple games, you have 2 BW players at the top who have won multiple star leagues, 2 SC players who have won multiple GSLs, 1 WC 3 player who was the highest earner in WC 3, and then there's a list of about 15 MOBA players who have won 1 big MOBA tournament. It's obvious that MOBA games are rapidly catapulting their winners to the top of the list. Had Na'Vi won TI 2, four of their players would be above virtually everyone but Fatal1ty and Flash.
In a few years time, provided the same players continue to feature in the finals of LoL and Dota 2 tournaments, they're going to overtake SC 2 players very rapidly.
The money is definitely in MOBA games for the best of the best.
To SC's credit, though, it supports a larger mid-tier field than the MOBA games due to the availability of smaller tournaments.
Well yeah, but bear in mind the Kespa salaries were pretty monstrous and aren't published in the earnings rankings. With that in mind, I'd imagine the BW players would be streets ahead of pretty much everyone.
Also players like Grubby who likely earn a reasonable amount from personal sponsorships, streaming etc etc.
Prize money isn't everything in terms of sustainable E-sports, indeed they probably need to be less top-heavy if we want to support a big pro scene, with mid-tier players still able to make a living.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
most my rl friends play dota .. <.< who cares what your small share of the pie comes from you only see .0001% of the population lol.
Also you kinda need to lay off buddy this is how it always goes with games as they ebb and flow, gamers ALWAYS will complain about their game having problems so i dont see why you would be so up and arms about them being bitter about it, go hang out in the BW forums its 10x worse lol.
Look at the top players in this list. Besides Fatal1ty who plays multiple games, you have 2 BW players at the top who have won multiple star leagues, 2 SC players who have won multiple GSLs, 1 WC 3 player who was the highest earner in WC 3, and then there's a list of about 15 MOBA players who have won 1 big MOBA tournament. It's obvious that MOBA games are rapidly catapulting their winners to the top of the list. Had Na'Vi won TI 2, four of their players would be above virtually everyone but Fatal1ty and Flash.
In a few years time, provided the same players continue to feature in the finals of LoL and Dota 2 tournaments, they're going to overtake SC 2 players very rapidly.
The money is definitely in MOBA games for the best of the best.
To SC's credit, though, it supports a larger mid-tier field than the MOBA games due to the availability of smaller tournaments.
Well yeah, but bear in mind the Kespa salaries were pretty monstrous and aren't published in the earnings rankings. With that in mind, I'd imagine the BW players would be streets ahead of pretty much everyone.
Also players like Grubby who likely earn a reasonable amount from personal sponsorships, streaming etc etc.
Prize money isn't everything in terms of sustainable E-sports, indeed they probably need to be less top-heavy if we want to support a big pro scene, with mid-tier players still able to make a living.
Yeah, not talking about salaries, which I think are higher for top BW players by a huge amount. Tournament earnings are, however, visible in a way that salaries are not. That helps sponsors and organizers advertise.
while the prize-pool is gigantic and eye-opening, i think there've been amendments to player contracts and that a percentage of the winnings goes back to the team.
tbh, i don't even know how long the stretch of time is for the largest LoL and Dota2 leagues. with GSL you know that it is a 1 month span. 50k for 1st, 20k for second, and 8k if you reach the quarterfinals i believe. that is more than respectable pay if you're reaching RO8 each and every month.
do you need to be seeded through qualifiers all season long in LoL? even then, i'm not sure how long season 2 has been, and that was when there was a huge boon to the popularity of the game. honestly, that was when i was most taken in by LoL, even though i only played a handful of ranked games compared to normals. if you are working all year... all year long to compete at the best and brightest competition, i think that deserves some respect, and i think a lot of league players deserve the spotlight.
if i were to talk about the pull of the game itself though, i would say that the regular pub player---despite their other interests and ideas about the game---is a regular person like yourself. they're funny, they're trying a bit too hard to tell their teammates what to do, and they get emotional during the game. i mean that the game pulls in a wide variety of players that just generally want to do well in the game. i don't agree that the game is 'competitive' (competitive at its core) outside of the ring of professional players and the amateur players who try very hard to catch up with them. i've felt that it's a co-op vs. ai, except the opponents are humans who make plays, and make mistakes.
TOP 100 or gtfo means everyone is getting the f*ck out this moment, i can think of 40 of the top 100, and none of them are posters here.
i'm not rated insanely highly in LoL or sc2, and i don't have an incredible attraction towards LoL anymore. it makes me quite sad that the 'circuit' games for league get very few viewers, except the players showered in fandom receive a lot more exposure than a smaller tournament itself. it's beyond sad the lack of responsibility that some streamers for LoL have. they've been caught naked, cussing family members out, or even team-mates over the course of a stream.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I'm sorry, this isn't a bash LoL post.
HOWEVER, when RIOT says IN THEIR GAME that LOL IS AN EASIER VERSION OF DOTA, what do you expect people to say?
It's not a question of different skill sets. They are very similar games with a number of key differences. It just happens that these differences were all aimed at making LoL EASIER and more casual friendly than DOTA. Does that mean it is skilless? No. QUANTITATIVELY is it easier than DOTA? Yes.
Are you gonna argue that Algebra 1 isn't easier than Algebra 2 because they require different skill sets? No, that would be silly.
On October 25 2012 11:10 Wounded31 wrote: D; Starcraft not doing that good D:
Just another stampede victim. There's been a huge influx of talent in the korean scene and it makes sense for some of the mid-tier ESF players to bail to easier games.
Eh, at this point I'm not too surprised. Players come and go, SC2 is facing a bit of dilution, so players switching or retiring is to be expected. I expect that LoL will have players change games as well in time, and in the long term the amount of players will settle for each game where neither has too many or too few. Nothing unexpected here, it's just unfortunate it had to be sC.
Nonetheless, I wish sC a successful future, and look forward to new SC2 talent to take his place (the circle of life, as it were).
I have to say it was (sadly) bound to happen. I've been a sc2 fan since tsl3 but With HoTS proving not to be what we hoped for, sc2 as an esport is going to die. LoL is just a great esport and the way riot promotes it is just awesome. I hope those sc2 terrans will do well in this team context!
I'm a huge SC2 fan (been suscribed to Gomtv for the last 10months) but I fell in love with LoL last month. Both games require a lot of skills in different aspects and are quite different. Stop the LoL bashing, you just don't know what you're talking about.
For instance, for those who think LoL is easy... Just put any LoL team versus AzubuFrost, Taipei Assassins, Najin Sword, or M5, and theyll all get stomped as those 4 top teams are just way better. Those teams are superiors, theres a true difference between a top tier team and an average pro team in league.
Compare it to SC2.... yeah, mvp can get crushed by anyone in the pro scene... sc2 is more luck based (sadly) and that's why I think it'll disappear as an esport.
On October 25 2012 12:48 Ethoex wrote: I really hope this doesn't become a common thing
I don't really care about it on principle, but damnit it's mostly my favourite players who are switching over! Puzzle really didn't get the credit he deserved lately for being one of the only solid players for Slayers in GSTL, and I've been awaiting sC getting back to his peak level for ages. Shame really, but good luck to them all!
On October 25 2012 13:18 Ozell wrote: I'm a huge SC2 fan (been suscribed to Gomtv for the last 10months) but I fell in love with LoL last month. Both games require a lot of skills in different aspects and are quite different. Stop the LoL bashing, you just don't know what you're talking about.
For instance, for those who think LoL is easy... Just put any LoL team versus AzubuFrost, Taipei Assassins, Najin Sword, or M5, and theyll all get stomped as those 4 top teams are just way better. Those teams are superiors, theres a true difference between a top tier team and an average pro team in league.
Compare it to SC2.... yeah, mvp can get crushed by anyone in the pro scene... sc2 is more luck based (sadly) and that's why I think it'll disappear as an esport.
Why do you complain about LoL bashing, with the justification that the bashers are ignorant about it, and claim SC2 is more luck based?
SC2 is actually pretty good at rewarding the better player, especially over a long series. I can't recall the poster who illuminated me to this, with statistical backup, but props to him.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I'm sorry, this isn't a bash LoL post.
HOWEVER, when RIOT says IN THEIR GAME that LOL IS AN EASIER VERSION OF DOTA, what do you expect people to say?
It's not a question of different skill sets. They are very similar games with a number of key differences. It just happens that these differences were all aimed at making LoL EASIER and more casual friendly than DOTA. Does that mean it is skilless? No. QUANTITATIVELY is it easier than DOTA? Yes.
Are you gonna argue that Algebra 1 isn't easier than Algebra 2 because they require different skill sets? No, that would be silly.
Riot did not say that at all. Stop making stuff up. And dota and lol are too different to compare. There are red and blue buffs in lol which doesn't exist in dota. Also, the carries in dota and lol work very differently. Then you have masteries and runes which opens up alot of different paths a champion would play out in game.
On October 25 2012 13:18 Ozell wrote:Compare it to SC2.... yeah, mvp can get crushed by anyone in the pro scene... sc2 is more luck based (sadly) and that's why I think it'll disappear as an esport.
No, just no.
If he did 'get crushed by anyone in the pro scene', then how come he's won like 15 premier tournaments and been on Code S for 10 straight seasons? Son, it's the opposite.
SC2 isn't more luck based, it's the other way around: there has always been a top 30-40 with the same players, both in Korea and outside, and the better player almost always wins except in an extreme occasion where cheese and race imbalance aids a bad one, yet this is extremely rare, considering the amount of tournaments played.
And this is what happened: more players entered the top 30-40 (elephants) and some who became more mediocre (comparatively) left for a game where they make less effort for more profit, and the gap between the most skilled and them is smaller (LoL).
I dont know why some of you are surprised.. LoL has bigger tournaments and more money and MORE VIEWERSHIP. Dont expect Sc2 to live much longer (next 1-2 years).
This one isn't as surprising because I remember reading about how he didn't practice that much at one point because he was spending his time playing LoL. Still disappointing, he looked promising before he had to take time off because of his collapsed lung.
EPT
