Kim "MVPsC" Seung Chul will be switching from Starcraft 2 to League of Legends.
MVP's coach Choi Youn Sang said today that sC has ended his career as a professional Starcraft 2 player and left the team house to prepare on becoming a professional gamer in League of Legends.
noooooooooooooooooooooooooo. one of my favorite terrans. these sc2 players (especially former top players like sC) switching the LoL is really worrying
That game of Nestea against sC all the way back then was probably one of the most memorable moments in all of the GSL. It sucks that he never really got a chance to shine at SC2 due to his constant illness .
Best of luck to him League of Legends, our own elephants will stampede into their scene ^_^.
This makes me incredibly sad. He was such an amazingly skilled player - one of the few whose games I always enjoyed and looked forward to, but I guess there's more and easier money in the rising LoL, sad as it is.
Where are these players who switch to LoL going? Are they forming teams and trying out for the OGN tournament? Are they joining established teams to form b-teams? I don't know if those are questions better suited to be answered on the LoL subforum, but considering LoL is a game where you need 5 reliable people, I don't understand how individuals are "switching to LoL."
Unsurprising, there were some comments in interviews that suggested he wasn't really practicing (for reasons beyond just his medical condition). Still sad, was a pretty sick mechanical terran with a cool tvz, he will be missed.
As much as this goes under the sky is falling stuff, anyone who has read sC's interviews(or some people on his team) know that he's been playing LoL alot instead of practicing for a looooong time - start of the year or so.
:Obligatory comment about Destiny being right and now Idra and InControl will win tournmanents with all the Koreans switching:
On topic: Sad to see sC go especially since he was part of one of my favorite games of all time (vs Nestea) but I feel like he hasn't been the same since lung surgery. Hopefully he'll make a bigger impact on the LOL scene. Good luck dood!
Poor SC, he will forever be remembered as "the guy that had an epic series with Nestea and lost in the end"; But it's ok! I still remember his epic non-stop marine pressure against Losira(?), which often is coined "SC style" nowadays!
On October 24 2012 18:11 Gheed wrote: Where are these players who switch to LoL going? Are they forming teams and trying out for the OGN tournament? Are they joining established teams to form b-teams? I don't know if those are questions better suited to be answered on the LoL subforum, but considering LoL is a game where you need 5 reliable people, I don't understand how individuals are "switching to LoL."
If i'm not mistaken mvp has two LoL teams so maybe that's why and where he's headed
Starcraft was a town filled with many restaurants. Startale Burgers, LG-IM Sushi, TSL Tacos, and some others. Everything was good, and while some of the other places didn't get as many people, everyone could stay employed and continue working.
THEN OUTTA NOWHERE EIGHT NEW BIG CHAIN RESTAURANTS LIKE KT CRAB SHACK AND SK PIZZA MOVE INTO TOWN.
Guys, 100 or so players recently switched to SC2. The player field is now over saturated and those employers who could get by a while ago can't stand with so many new players coming over and taking their jobs. sC once had amazing potential and would have been a GSL champion if not for Nestea in possibly the greatest SC2 game of all-time, but he hadn't done much in over a year since his lung collapsed. He obviously has been playing LoL for a long time.
Yea this is looking rather bad. Its definitely not the end of SC2 but its going downhill, and fast. Pro's and casters switching over to ensure their careers is a big sign for blizzard, yet they still seem silent. Time to do something.....
edit: Its not just koreans, a lot of the western scene seems to be testing the water with Dota2/LoL.
Been a long time coming, Trimaster mentioned months ago that back when he spent time in Korea, sC was barely practicing and playing LoL instead, that's why he fell out of Code A.
This one is not surprising to me, in contrast to the Puzzle switch.
On October 24 2012 18:20 Fionn wrote: Starcraft was a town filled with many restaurants. Startale Burgers, LG-IM Sushi, TSL Tacos, and some others. Everything was good, and while some of the other places didn't get as many people, everyone could stay employed and continue working.
THEN OUTTA NOWHERE EIGHT NEW BIG CHAIN RESTAURANTS LIKE KT CRAB SHACK AND SK PIZZA MOVE INTO TOWN.
Guys, 100 or so players recently switched to SC2. The player field is now over saturated and those employers who could get by a while ago can't stand with so many new players coming over and taking their jobs. sC once had amazing potential and would have been a GSL champion if not for Nestea in possibly the greatest SC2 game of all-time, but he hadn't done much in over a year since his lung collapsed. He obviously has been playing LoL for a long time.
Krusty Crab eh?! Someone has been watching a little too much SpongeBob!
On October 24 2012 18:20 sekritzzz wrote: Yea this is looking rather bad. Its definitely not the end of SC2 but its going downhill, and fast. Pro's and casters switching over to ensure their careers is a big sign for blizzard, yet they still seem silent. Time to do something.....
sC has DONE NOTHING in the past year. The most notable accomplishment was getting into WCS Korea and then getting knocked out by Jaedong. What caster has switched to LoL? Tasteless? The guy that was probably asked at the last minute to fill in for GOM, and being the great English caster he is, decided to step in even if he doesn't know all the champions and spells?
Why do people not understand that when 100+ new players come into your town, players are going to leave. This is a 1v1 sport. sC once had a lot of potential, but has been noted to being playing LoL for a long time. He was doing nothing in SC2 and decided to make the switch where the LoL Korean scene is very young and easy to enter. I loved sC back in the middle of 2011, but after the lungs collapsed and he went from fOu to FXO, he did nothing.
I have my theory. after his surgery he couldn't play SC2 but could play LoL because it is less hard mechanicwise ( no offense to LoL, but this true: LoL isn't the game which requires the most APM.) He started enjoying it and that plus the fact that sadly for him he wasn't at all at the level where he was before his surgery in sc2 made him make the switch.
Everybody from the Non-Kespa teams except the (near) top players or the most committed players will switch or quit. SC2 in Korea seems to be built around the hope that it will become the next BW and thus the infrastructure was built like in BW. It does not look like it becomes as succesful, so the scene will consolidate to a smaller core.
Still remember SC vs Nestea, however SC has been out of the scene for a while. He has medical issues + dosen't have a LoL team, therefore I don't think he will be "serious". Are all these guys switching to LoL hoping to get lucky and get picked up by a team? I mean... this is not like Starcraft where you can just be good and win money you have to have a team, a team house, management to be successful and there are only so many to go around, even with their huge viewer base.
On October 24 2012 18:31 SinCitta wrote: Everybody from the Non-Kespa teams except the (near) top players or the most committed players will switch or quit. SC2 in Korea seems to be built around the hope that it will become the next BW and thus the infrastructure was built like in BW. It does not look like it becomes as succesful, so the scene will consolidate to a smaller core.
I also expect some KeSPA players to disappear. We will never hear from them though, unlike lower tier eSF players.
On October 24 2012 18:32 Moonling wrote: Still remember SC vs Nestea, however SC has been out of the scene for a while. He has medical issues + dosen't have a LoL team, therefore I don't think he will be "serious". Are all these guys switching to LoL hoping to get lucky and get picked up by a team? I mean... this is not like Starcraft where you can just be good and win money you have to have a team, a team house, management to be successful and there are only so many to go around, even with their huge viewer base.
Maybe someone in MVP is leaving and they need to fill a spot? MVP has 3 LoL teams IIRC.
On October 24 2012 18:31 SinCitta wrote: Everybody from the Non-Kespa teams except the (near) top players or the most committed players will switch or quit. SC2 in Korea seems to be built around the hope that it will become the next BW and thus the infrastructure was built like in BW. It does not look like it becomes as succesful, so the scene will consolidate to a smaller core.
I also expect some KeSPA players to disappear. We will never hear from them though, unlike lower tier eSF players.
It's already happened with a few Team 8 players retiring quietly and joining the underground afreeca BW scene.
I still remember sC's epic game vs Nestea on Crossfire. Those kinds of games were the reason I watched SC2, and as such it is quite sad that sC isn't playing SC2 anymore. However, League of Legends is also an excellent game, and as such I wish him the best of luck in the thriving LoL scene. Here's to sC doing something just as epic on the fields of justice!
seriously, how is his switch remotely related to SC2 going downhill? He has a poor condition, switch on an easier game (at least less physically demanding, and that's it. Chances are he would never have been able to be competitive again on SC2!
On October 24 2012 18:25 mikell wrote: Why do progamers have to stick to one game when it comes to Starcraft etc? Fans are so quick to grumble about it.
Actually, that reminds me of the fighting scene. Justin Wong plays in way too many games.
Too bad, he was one of the promising Terrans before he had his lung condition. He hasn't been the same ever since. Now as for the people using this to say "OMG SC2 IS DYING ARMAGEDDON IS HERE!!", I would yell the same if the likes of MVP, DRG, MC, and KeSPA big timers switched to LoL.
I really enjoyed his play in SC2 (especially those classic series vs NesTea and San) so it's quite sad to see him go, but I wish him great success and no more health problems. sC fighting ~
On October 24 2012 19:04 Eruism wrote: Expect more to switch, LoL is just too huge in Korea compared to SC2 atm.
You mean there has been a recent increase in sc2 pros in korea, making the scene even more competitive. Changing to lol is only natural for people who cannot come along in sc2, seeing lol is a growing scene. It's not about size, it's about opportunity.
Well good luck. Its obvious some pros will switch. maybe its even a good thing, to have less players means the ones who are left get a bigger share of the pie.
The Slayers folk, Puzzle, Coca, I can understand. Their team was sinking fast and they needed something to live off of. sC's from MVP though... that's the most worrying part, a successful member of one of the (lauded as) stable teams in Korea is going over.
On October 24 2012 19:26 Iplaythings wrote: So many SC2 progamers are going to LoL
What the hell :o I thought atleast one or two of them might go dota 2 or just retire from gaming alltogether
I don't follow the MOBA scenes, but I believe Korea=LOL and China=Dota. As has been stated mutliple times, this shouldn't surprise anyone, considering he's been playing LOL ever since his lung collapse (in his interviews he always apologized for playing too much LOL, hence his bad performances in SC2).
There will be more switches of pros, due to the influx of the BW scene, it is natural and is not a sign of SC2's death or other nonsense, it's just that there are too many SC2 pros in Korea right now, so B-teamers and less successful teams will retire or switch.
Ohh sad..... He was my second favourite terran after taeja. This is terrible news, especially as he was one of the more mechanically talented players when he wasn't injured. Maybe he wanted to play a lighter game to balance with his injury? Best of luck i suppose to him.....but i always imagined him winning code S eventually, so its not quite the same..
On October 24 2012 18:17 Csong wrote: more sad news ...
This, LoL is such a crap game compared to SC / SC2 ... can't understand ppl who are switching to those games
That's really subjective and narrow-minded; they're both eSport, but very different skill sets. The amount of teamwork and communication required in pro LoL competitions is no less than the extra micro/macro skill sets required for SC2; they are just different games of the eSport.
It's almost like saying American Football is better than "Soccer" because it requires more physical attributes or some other reasoning. But fact of the matter is, they're just different, and "Soccer" just happens to be more popular worldwide.
On October 24 2012 20:07 Sc2MS wrote: And The Cracks Begin To Show...
Cracks or not, SC2 is the only ggod RTS (that I know). Being second or third to other games is fine _ as long as they're not true RTS games. Also the amount of Korean progamers recently doubled, can't rly blame people for shifting games.
Well when your lung collapses all the time you need a game that doesn't require much practice, so imo a really logic choice for him. And tbh if you wanna be a pro gamer right now star 2 is probably one of the hardest games to do so, where as lol is probably one of the easiest.
This must be the feeling that BW fans had when SC2 was killing their game off. Although I foresaw this coming eventually as there are way too many Korean players sicne the KESPA pros have switched.
If TL wasn't such a nice forum, I would now be writing a totally exaggerated hate post towards LoL. But since it's TL I'm taking a deep breath... Calm down... Wondering what would TLO or Day[9] do.
He was so behind the curve from his months in hospital so it's probably the best for him, it's nearly impossible to catch back up. I'll always remember nestea vs sc on crossfire <3
Don't care tbh as long as KeSPA pro gamers continue to be successful.
Edit: Oh, and btw, don't wait for HotS to "keep and excite" players in its current form. Blizzard need to slow down their expansion timing, and focus on stuff that needs to be added. However, the community may have to pressure Blizzard for that.
Really liked sC s playstyle. But if you lose passion for your sport and find something else go for it. Or in case of LoL if you want an easy to play/high reward game. (not meant in a bad way, that means its fun for most people)
Gotta thank him for the entertaining games in the earlier days of sc2. Wish him all the best health wise.
LoL doesn't really do much for me as a spectator, but with some of the sc2 players switching will probably keep an eye on how they do in general. Good luck in LoL sC, will be keeping an eye out!
Not sure anyone should be surprised.. it's been hinted that MVPsC has been playing LoL for a while..and there was a strong speculation of him switching over.
Best of luck to him. And no we aren't going to have massive # of players switching to LoL.
Not too surprising considering he's been playing LoL for a while now. Good but not good enough to stay in the GSL and not popular enough to get invites to foreign tournaments. Despite not being a superstar sC's games will never be forgotten. His series vs San in GSL March was the best TvP BoX played up to that point and the legendary game 5 against Nestea in GSL May is afaik still the #1 most recommended game on TL of all time. It's a shame he was on the losing end of both events but somebody has to lose.
This makes sense for SC, because he had a lot of health problems and couldn't practice as much as he needed to. Good luck SC in all your future endeavors!
I said a long time ago when terran were getting huge nerfs and z and p huge buffs that things needed to change. Its pretty clear to see that Terran's have been struggling and the skill gap is bigger on the Terran's side of things. I don't want people to start responding to me in a way thats like "oh your a terran so you would whine about balance wouldnt you!". This is not about that. I could see a lot of Terran's looking to quit this game if changes were not made and changes have not been made in a very long time to atleast give players who play terran something to work with. But now we have seen 3 players quit for other games and all 3 players are Terran players. Sorry to be so blunt but i was the first person to turn around and say Ghosts were imbalanced when they were before the emp nerf. Since then the game has been going down hill and so have blizzards decision making. Things need to change and quickly.
Good luck with your future sC i loved your playstyle in SC2 and im sure you will do great with LoL.
On October 24 2012 21:29 LighT. wrote: Not sure anyone should be surprised.. it's been hinted that MVPsC has been playing LoL for a while..and there was a strong speculation of him switching over.
Best of luck to him. And no we aren't going to have massive # of players switching to LoL.
There's already been quite a few and it's not like they were chumps either... CoCa/sC/Puzzle just recently. Any one of them could have made another run at CodeA/S with their skill level. It's not really a stretch of the imagination to see many of the lower tier Koreans making a switch to LoL in the upcoming weeks.
I really hope Blizzard have large Aces up their sleeve to keep people with sc2. I really like this game so much more than those LoL/DOTA games. I really love the idea behind the economy focused play with a mixture of micro. I think SC2 will be around for a long time, but I'm just wondering if it will slowly degenerate into something where the only tournament events are Online or strictly will be kept on a national scale rather than international.
I might be speaking a little grim, but all of this hype about SC2 casual elements being rather low and also SC/Select switching over to other games... it really has to make you think.
I hope other pro players hang on a bit longer and atleast give HotS a chance, we'll see if Blizzard can offer something off the radar.
On October 24 2012 18:20 Fionn wrote: Starcraft was a town filled with many restaurants. Startale Burgers, LG-IM Sushi, TSL Tacos, and some others. Everything was good, and while some of the other places didn't get as many people, everyone could stay employed and continue working.
THEN OUTTA NOWHERE EIGHT NEW BIG CHAIN RESTAURANTS LIKE KT CRAB SHACK AND SK PIZZA MOVE INTO TOWN.
Guys, 100 or so players recently switched to SC2. The player field is now over saturated and those employers who could get by a while ago can't stand with so many new players coming over and taking their jobs. sC once had amazing potential and would have been a GSL champion if not for Nestea in possibly the greatest SC2 game of all-time, but he hadn't done much in over a year since his lung collapsed. He obviously has been playing LoL for a long time.
That, plus the fact that a couple of neighbouring towns such as El Oh El and Dote-Ah Too suddenly became a popular tourist destination and place to live in! And new restaurants were opened as a result! And they are hiring new people!
Good Luck for sC! Being one of the best players out there before his illness got even worse.. Edit: Removed stupid part of the post. User was warned for this post
On October 24 2012 22:24 GornWood wrote: As long as TL doesn't pick up a LoL forum it's still ok. I think TL will never support LoL in the news because it is like you choose either side DotA or LoL, with DotA being clearly the better pick...(In my opinion.)
Sad to see such a good player go to play a game, where the lack of skill ceiling makes it really boring. LoL wasn't designed for competitive play but Riot doesn't care so they just pump their dirty dollars into the scene and boom! Congatulations, casual game evolved to competitive game with lack of skill ceiling, so pros aren't better than casuals!
Good Luck for sC though! Being one of the best players out there before his illness got even worse..
Why do you bother typing stuff you have no clue about? Just wondering, why are you making a fool of yourself, and wasting time typing stupid and untrue sentences. It's just so counterproductive.
On October 24 2012 18:14 smileface wrote: "starcraft is doing fine... not going anywhere"
yeah... right...
I don't think that a few players switching to LoL says something about sc2. Sc2 requires much more practice, and there is much less pressure when playing LoL (you can rely on teammates, it's much more casual).
It's really not weird that LoL is so much more popular. When I come home after a whole day of college, I want to chill, and definitely not play a game that 1) is damn hard, 2) gives me stress, 3) requires a ton of thinking and speed, 4) doesn't have any friends on it (bnet is a lonely place).
The only reason why I hit that ladder buttom everythime I can is because I am ultra competitive. I refuse to play LoL because of the easiness. I don't like LoL because it's really not appealing to not-players. Meanwhile I can show a starcraft 2 game to my girlfriend, and she will be interested + she will understand the game (not in depth, but still the basics). When I show LoL to someone, he will be bored after 1 minute.
Starcraft 2 is a hard game, and everyone without a competitive soul will quit it sooner or later.
On October 24 2012 21:29 LighT. wrote: Not sure anyone should be surprised.. it's been hinted that MVPsC has been playing LoL for a while..and there was a strong speculation of him switching over.
Best of luck to him. And no we aren't going to have massive # of players switching to LoL.
There's already been quite a few and it's not like they were chumps either... CoCa/sC/Puzzle just recently. Any one of them could have made another run at CodeA/S with their skill level. It's not really a stretch of the imagination to see many of the lower tier Koreans making a switch to LoL in the upcoming weeks.
sC again, has been playing LoL for a while now...a switch shouldnt be surprising at all..it was expected at one point. Apparently he has a 2200 elo or something like that which is pro level... Coca/Min/Puzzle has been known by the Slayers faction for a while that they were sneaking to play LoL, and this is evident in their inactivity in the sc2 scene, in which was covered up with apparent "illnesses" There might be a few more players retiring with the Kespa players storming in, and making each individual league harder to compete in, but I dont expect anymore players to switch over to LoL anytime soon.
Not a surprise. Starcraft 2 isn't good enough. I hope everyone switches back to BW, so we can have fun again. I have subscribed to GSL since season 1, but the game is too boring, it just isn't worth it any more.
On October 24 2012 18:20 Fionn wrote: Starcraft was a town filled with many restaurants. Startale Burgers, LG-IM Sushi, TSL Tacos, and some others. Everything was good, and while some of the other places didn't get as many people, everyone could stay employed and continue working.
THEN OUTTA NOWHERE EIGHT NEW BIG CHAIN RESTAURANTS LIKE KT CRAB SHACK AND SK PIZZA MOVE INTO TOWN.
Guys, 100 or so players recently switched to SC2. The player field is now over saturated and those employers who could get by a while ago can't stand with so many new players coming over and taking their jobs. sC once had amazing potential and would have been a GSL champion if not for Nestea in possibly the greatest SC2 game of all-time, but he hadn't done much in over a year since his lung collapsed. He obviously has been playing LoL for a long time.
I can't say it better then this.
On October 24 2012 22:56 Arnstein wrote: Not a surprise. Starcraft 2 isn't good enough. I hope everyone switches back to BW, so we can have fun again. I have subscribed to GSL since season 1, but the game is too boring, it just isn't worth it any more.
Yeah, sc2 is not good enough, it's so boring, so people switch to an easier game that is much more boring? I challenge you, show a sc2 game to your non-gaming friends and show a LoL game to your non-gaming friends and see what makes them more excited. Kespa players joined a few months ago, and some of them are already code S level. Give it a few more months and we will see much more sick games.
People first need to find they are competetive and thats where the crux is. Many of us had previous experiences with RTS/Competetive gaming or Esports in general.
We as a TL vocal minority had previous experiences with competetive gaming thats why "find match" button is not as big of a deal as it is for non-vocal majority.
BW was incredibly taxing game but it had way better casual gameplay due to vast UMS system and living teamplay. In fact going hardcore and laddering was harder than finding funny UMS or Hunters team game. In SC2 its reverse a noob starts laddering before he even finds whether the game is fun or not. Its creating a bad habit when you play for win instead play to enjoy. I started playing CS 1.5 as a total noob in pubs and started to learn the game and then when i reached the conclusion "I want something more" i searched for clan and learned CW/teamplay and polished my skills. This is natural chain of events in breaching amateur/professional mindset in any activity you do.
Its just a blizzard did not foresee this, hindsight.
You can't blame progamers switching from SC2 to LoL because even if they don't like the game, it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap. Not only that, it's insanely popular because of this generation's casuals who can't learn games with depth. ...And Riot is throwing a lot of money at the 'scene', which to me just looks to be getting closer and closer to becoming KESPA 2.0
i'm suprised he got to 2k elo while he was an sc2 pro. And can you guys please stop with the 'riot is throwing alot of money' shenanigans? LoL was pretty popular in korea even before they put up the korean server. And 'riot throwing money' (god knows what that phrase even means exactly, investing? That's a bad thing? And what about Valve?) only effects the progamers not the casuals.
On October 24 2012 18:06 .kv wrote: so many countless epic games involving sC especially his series against NesTea...one of my favorite terrans to watch and I don't even play terran
Can't forget his series in the finals against DRG in the LG 3d special tournament shit.
Most of what I remember from sC is just cheese plays of various kinds. I think from memory he played very few non-cheesy games that I have seen, especially in the semi-recent games.
I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason for switching is because he can't get there in the game, because his playstyle isn't right for the way the game is played now.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
I feel sorry for second class pros that think they will get a new chance in LOL.
They will not. The skillcap is not there, the only challenge is coordinating with your teammates and that is it. Nothing will differentiate pro team A from pro team B in a couple or years.
It is like trying to make money by being better at flipping burgers than the the next guy. It does not work. Every good burger flipper is about as good as every other good burger flipper.
On October 24 2012 18:20 Fionn wrote: Starcraft was a town filled with many restaurants. Startale Burgers, LG-IM Sushi, TSL Tacos, and some others. Everything was good, and while some of the other places didn't get as many people, everyone could stay employed and continue working.
THEN OUTTA NOWHERE EIGHT NEW BIG CHAIN RESTAURANTS LIKE KT CRAB SHACK AND SK PIZZA MOVE INTO TOWN.
Guys, 100 or so players recently switched to SC2. The player field is now over saturated and those employers who could get by a while ago can't stand with so many new players coming over and taking their jobs. sC once had amazing potential and would have been a GSL champion if not for Nestea in possibly the greatest SC2 game of all-time, but he hadn't done much in over a year since his lung collapsed. He obviously has been playing LoL for a long time.
On October 24 2012 22:56 Arnstein wrote: Not a surprise. Starcraft 2 isn't good enough. I hope everyone switches back to BW, so we can have fun again. I have subscribed to GSL since season 1, but the game is too boring, it just isn't worth it any more.
Yeah, sc2 is not good enough, it's so boring, so people switch to an easier game that is much more boring? I challenge you, show a sc2 game to your non-gaming friends and show a LoL game to your non-gaming friends and see what makes them more excited. Kespa players joined a few months ago, and some of them are already code S level. Give it a few more months and we will see much more sick games.
This is not about my non-gaming friends, but pros that play 12+ hours a day.
This makes me so sad, sC has been one of my absolute favourite players since his epic run in GSL May 2011. He played an aggressive style that reminded me of MKP, so when MKP got knocked out early in GSL at the time I found myself cheering for sC to win instead. I will never forget the awesome first game against LosirA in the round of 8 of GSL May where he just attacked with like 15 marines rallied constantly and then used great micro to win, now from time to time referred to as "the sC style". Since then I have always rooted for sC in every match he has played, except for when he was facing MKP, but that's not relevant. Then the health problems started, which made me even sadder than I am right now.
But this is not that unexpected. If you have followed sC on Twitter or read his interviews you know that he's been playing LoL seemingly quite a lot. If he feels this is the best course of action then I am sure it is and I think he will be just as great at LoL as he was with WoL. I will continue to cheer for you sC and wish you all the best as you walk down this new path in life.
For me, today WoL lost one of it's brighest stars.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
sC is at the top? He dropped out of Code A in April and hasn't done anything of note since then, except some losses in WCS Korea and in GSTL. He's at best middle of the pack, and that pack is pretty large. He's basically nowhere, so moving on to something else where he can try and be someone makes sense.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
sC is at the top? He dropped out of Code A in April and hasn't done anything of note since then, except some losses in WCS Korea and in GSTL. He's at best middle of the pack, and that pack is pretty large. He's basically nowhere, so moving on to something else where he can try and be someone makes sense.
This, the guy had no real future as a well payed SC2 professional, so he might as well try his luck at LoL.
I really dont understand why people are getting so upset over this. The guy hasn't been competitive for almost a year now, and just wants to try something else as apparently SC2 isn't working out for him.
On October 25 2012 00:56 EuroRabbit wrote: I really dont understand why people are getting so upset over this. The guy hasn't been competitive for almost a year now, and just wants to try something else as apparently SC2 isn't working out for him.
I think it's because people don't realise he's not a top player, so they perceive it as someone really good leaving, rather than someone who's struggling leaving. In reality, it's a bit like when the Kespa b-teamers switched from SCBW to SC2. They had no SCBW career prospects, so they switched.
This is just indicative of a larger change. There's no doubt that Korea has chosen LoL as the next big e-sport. SC2 is not going to be that game. With HOTS you have a small handful of marginal new units that aren't going to attract new players or people who abandoned the game in 2010 and 2011. Even if they implement the ideal BattleNet, that's not going to turn the tide. The damage has been done.
I understand switching to LoL to keep going as a progamer, but what I don't get is LoL's popularity... I tried it. It was boring. I can't imagine playing it all the time, let alone watching pros play it ever.
On October 25 2012 01:08 itiswhatitis wrote: I understand switching to LoL to keep going as a progamer, but what I don't get is LoL's popularity... I tried it. It was boring. I can't imagine playing it all the time, let alone watching pros play it ever.
because it's a fun game? These kinds of things are subjective anyway.
"I can't understand why people play sc2. I tried it and it was boring"
See what I did there?
Dustin Browder chose to go full retard and not build upon a formula that worked for over a decade. There's a reason people keep buying Call of Duty even though it's the same shit every year, the core of the game is still the same.
We all knew, that when the Kespa pros switched over, it would shake up the scene and some players would have to retire. It doesn't really matter, that instead of retiring completely, they're trying to switch to LoL. Gaming is all they know, it's only normal that they'll try to find another way to make money doing it.
sC had so much potential, if he hadnt had major health issues he could have become a GSL champion. He always had a really distinct style of tvz that was fun to watch
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
But how can a LoL player become a star like boxer? Isn't the skillgap in LoL too low for this?
On October 25 2012 01:08 itiswhatitis wrote: I understand switching to LoL to keep going as a progamer, but what I don't get is LoL's popularity... I tried it. It was boring. I can't imagine playing it all the time, let alone watching pros play it ever.
I agree with you. I can understand it's fun to play a few hours a day, but fulltime? No way. Also I can't understand how people would enjoy watching pros play it. I think the teamplay is fun to watch... the first few months.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
But how can a LoL player become a star like boxer? Isn't the skillgap in LoL too low for this?
On October 25 2012 01:08 itiswhatitis wrote: I understand switching to LoL to keep going as a progamer, but what I don't get is LoL's popularity... I tried it. It was boring. I can't imagine playing it all the time, let alone watching pros play it ever.
I agree with you. I can understand it's fun to play a few hours a day, but fulltime? No way. Also I can't understand how people would enjoy watching pros play it. I think the teamplay is fun to watch... the first few months.
The great thing is, it's existence isn't dependent on your ability to comprehend it, just accept the fact that there are people who do enjoy it and you're quite simply not one of them.
I'm sick of seeing these 'derp derp, tried it and didn't like it' posts; essentially belittling the biggest community esports has at this time and indeed, has ever had. There are OBVIOUSLY people who enjoy it and obviously for more than just the first few months, hence why LoL has been around longer than SC2.
Regarding whether a pro-player can become a Boxer like figure, of course they can. Boxer didn't achieve some unreached power level; he just dominated for a period of time. Yes, LoL teams consist of 5 members but two of the lanes minimum will be 1vs1 and a select few players have a strong reputation as being the most fearsome in that given role or at a specific champion.
If that's all above your head and you didn't understand it; your opinion has no bearing on the truth.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
But how can a LoL player become a star like boxer? Isn't the skillgap in LoL too low for this?
On October 25 2012 01:08 itiswhatitis wrote: I understand switching to LoL to keep going as a progamer, but what I don't get is LoL's popularity... I tried it. It was boring. I can't imagine playing it all the time, let alone watching pros play it ever.
I agree with you. I can understand it's fun to play a few hours a day, but fulltime? No way. Also I can't understand how people would enjoy watching pros play it. I think the teamplay is fun to watch... the first few months.
Clearly you are in the minority. I my self have been playing leagues since beta and have over 1200 wins and still am not bored with the game..
I have 300 sc2 1v1 wins am pretty bored with the game and only play now when i don't have enough time to play a leagues game.
However I do prefer to watch sc2 and follow the community as a opposed to leagues.
On October 25 2012 00:56 EuroRabbit wrote: I really dont understand why people are getting so upset over this. The guy hasn't been competitive for almost a year now, and just wants to try something else as apparently SC2 isn't working out for him.
I think it's because people don't realise he's not a top player, so they perceive it as someone really good leaving, rather than someone who's struggling leaving. In reality, it's a bit like when the Kespa b-teamers switched from SCBW to SC2. They had no SCBW career prospects, so they switched.
sc would be much better than a kespa b teamer. sc has a generally okay record. there were plenty of kespa main roster players who do get wins here and there but you will hardly see get significant wins, semi appearances, etc. so IMO i think its a loss. maybe it had something to do with his lungs? sc2 too much pressure/anxiety? in any case, i feel this mass exodus from sc2 will only get worse.
On October 24 2012 23:18 Gentso wrote: ...it makes business sense. Anyone who's played SC2 at a high level can get to the highest elo's of League because there isn't much of a skill cap.
This.
Players are switching to LoL not because SC2 is "dying, declining...etc" but because of saturation and skill cap. The top of the SC2 scene is fairly well established and the progamer population has reached a point of over saturation as it relates to major tournaments, streams, sponsorships...etc. With the boom in popularity of other eSports-scene games it makes sense that many pros would switch over from a saturated market to one with plenty of room at the top of the pyramid.
To put it in a sciency-wiency sort of way: think of progamers like electrons, the game they're playing as the conduit, and making money as the energy-output/goal. As you add more conduits to the goal, the electrons will move along those conduits as they offer less resistance to the goal.
After all, the term is progamer, not proSC2player.
Wait... so because the top of SC2 is already saturated some of the players already at the top are going to leave? Doesn't make much sense, its safe to assume LoL is so popular in Korea that some of the people who dreamed of becoming a household name like Boxer see a better chance of that in LoL. A part of me wants to say "good riddance" because I much prefer the best players to actually love the game then just do it for money and fame.
But how can a LoL player become a star like boxer? Isn't the skillgap in LoL too low for this?
On October 25 2012 01:08 itiswhatitis wrote: I understand switching to LoL to keep going as a progamer, but what I don't get is LoL's popularity... I tried it. It was boring. I can't imagine playing it all the time, let alone watching pros play it ever.
I agree with you. I can understand it's fun to play a few hours a day, but fulltime? No way. Also I can't understand how people would enjoy watching pros play it. I think the teamplay is fun to watch... the first few months.
I assume you mean skillcap. Thing is, the peak of mechanical skill in LoL has still not been reached, and even beyond that, because it's a team game, there's a lot more things than individual skill getting blended into the mix because of team tactics and strategies. Shit, one role in LoL (Jungler) is ~10% mechanical skill and ~90% judgement calls. (and junglers are often the player who makes tactical calls for the team)
On October 24 2012 18:06 LoraX wrote: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo. one of my favorite terrans. these sc2 players (especially former top players like sC) switching the LoL is really worrying
Why? LoL is big in Korea... that's news to anyone?
I'm not surprised, he hasn't been doing well, has health issues, and it's not news that a lot of progamers consider LoL to be flat out easier than SC2.
I expect more of this switching to happen. Koreans realize that LoL is where the money is going to be so there's no point in being anything less than a code S SC2 player.
Dude ohmigod dude LoL is stealing all our pros!!!!11
Real talk: it's too bad he's retiring but it's not a surprise, given how many problems he had in SC2 lately and how little activity he's had. He will be missed. sC vs. Nestea FOREVER.
So much talent gone to waste! He would have stuck around if his lung wouldnt have collapsed -.- sC vs Nesta ,sC vs DRG and sC vs San never forget! Will miss his agressivenes insane macro and parade pushes
Just a reminder - none of these recent switches are necessarily final.
Remember how when SC2 began, it miraculously attracted people of all kinds of games - RTS (BW,WC3,C&C), Dota, FPS etc. All kinds of famous esports figures went to SC2, some more or less successfully.
Now similar thing is happening with Dota/LoL. That's fine, people are exploring things. Once HotS is stabilized, and once people get bored with their dota-likes, there could be a second wave towards SC2. All that's normal and no reason to panic.
On October 25 2012 05:14 figq wrote: Just a reminder - none of these recent switches are necessarily final.
Remember how when SC2 began, it miraculously attracted people of all kinds of games - RTS (BW,WC3,C&C), Dota, FPS etc. All kinds of famous esports figures went to SC2, some more or less successfully.
Now similar thing is happening with Dota/LoL. That's fine, people are exploring things. Once HotS is stabilized, and once people get bored with their dota-likes, there could be a second wave towards SC2. All that's normal and no reason to panic.
That's because SC2 was riding on the success of Brood War. Now that SC2 obviously has failed, it's too late to make anything successful out of it.
I also downloaded LoL just to try it. At least for a casual it is alot more fun.I can understand him. Blizzard should really hurry ...WoL is too stale right now!
I never saw Nestea vs sC. Gonna make that my homework for tonight.
I saw sC vs DRG at the finals that of that tournament that kind of stole the show over MVP vs... Top I think? In any case, Damn, that's like six great players in two weeks that have switched from SC2 to MOBAs.
On October 25 2012 05:14 figq wrote: Just a reminder - none of these recent switches are necessarily final.
Remember how when SC2 began, it miraculously attracted people of all kinds of games - RTS (BW,WC3,C&C), Dota, FPS etc. All kinds of famous esports figures went to SC2, some more or less successfully.
Now similar thing is happening with Dota/LoL. That's fine, people are exploring things. Once HotS is stabilized, and once people get bored with their dota-likes, there could be a second wave towards SC2. All that's normal and no reason to panic.
That's because SC2 was riding on the success of Brood War. Now that SC2 obviously has failed, it's too late to make anything successful out of it.
No, I don't think it's that simple. Yes, SC2 was definitely riding on the success of BW, and still is.
But SC2, even if it's not as good as it should be, is the current actively supported true RTS. Playing something like Dota is very fun, but it can't replace that, not forever. My take on the situation is: right now WoL and HotS are both not viable, because it's transition period. One is on its way out, the other is too unstable to matter yet. So people instead explore other genres, and that's fine. However, eventually they'll miss playing RTS. It's an itch that will come back, once HotS is stable.
On October 25 2012 05:24 NotoriousBig wrote: lol, i can´t have respect for a player who just switches the game just because he can get money in LoL, so disappointed by sc....
The Nestea vs sC game 5 is definitely one to remember. Sucks to see him switch over to another game, but hopefully that he finds happiness and success in his transition. So long sC
On October 25 2012 05:24 NotoriousBig wrote: lol, i can´t have respect for a player who just switches the game just because he can get money in LoL, so disappointed by sc....
Let me guess, you're like 16 right? This is his career we're talking about here, and he obviously wasn't enjoying SC2 anymore. That on top of his health problems means he should do whatever it takes to find something he can enjoy doing. We'll see if it pays off for him, but to lose respect because he's decided to change which game he plays for a living is pretty sad.
Best of luck to sC...I'm not a LoL fan but whatever makes him happy.
On October 25 2012 05:25 TheDougler wrote: I have a horrible confession guys:
I never saw Nestea vs sC. Gonna make that my homework for tonight.
I saw sC vs DRG at the finals that of that tournament that kind of stole the show over MVP vs... Top I think? In any case, Damn, that's like six great players in two weeks that have switched from SC2 to MOBAs.
I remember that series, it was pretty amazing.
That said, I'm excited that SOMETHING is catching on to potentially be "the next huge E-Sport" in Korea, because I know I was fretting about SC2 not having BW's momentum for a long time. I think everyone here can at least agree Korean E-Sport professionalism can only be a good ingredient to ESports. I do hope that SC2 sticks around/gains new ground with HOTS and in the future in general, even if it is being overtaken by LoL - coexistence!
I always liked him, his series vs. NesTea was basically the highlight of his SC2 career. When he did stream, he impressed me with his micro as well. Shame he had to go to the dark side that is LoL. But I wish him luck with his future in it.
With the way HOTS is going, I expect to see more of this in the future. But it kind of makes sense that he would switch over, he's been talking about it a lot lately. My question is Blizzard was it worth splitting the game into 3 different entries if no one is around when the dust settles?
On October 25 2012 05:41 Dokiii wrote: couple of players switching to MOBA now... is this a sign?
I anticipate more to follow. Is it really the effect of HotS beta or something else?
Something else: 8 Kespa teams with an est 100 pros just switched to the scene. Makes it harder for less successful pros -> they retire or switch to a game with a less grueling competition.
On October 25 2012 05:24 NotoriousBig wrote: lol, i can´t have respect for a player who just switches the game just because he can get money in LoL, so disappointed by sc....
Have you ever considered that maybe he enjoys playing LoL more than SC2?
On October 25 2012 05:54 mastergriggy wrote: With the way HOTS is going, I expect to see more of this in the future. But it kind of makes sense that he would switch over, he's been talking about it a lot lately. My question is Blizzard was it worth splitting the game into 3 different entries if no one is around when the dust settles?
Ofcourse it was worth it, SC2 have all ready been a great success. Even if the two expansions totally flops e-sport wise they will sell millions of copies. And regardless of SC2's future, the game will be remembered for being the spark of modern western e-sports.
For some time now, there seems to have been a constant stream of SC2 players switching to LoL. I've found it hard to imagine that the LoL scene can accommodate them all. The LoL scene must be a lot bigger than I realize.
On October 25 2012 05:24 NotoriousBig wrote: lol, i can´t have respect for a player who just switches the game just because he can get money in LoL, so disappointed by sc....
Have you ever considered that maybe he enjoys playing LoL more than SC2?
i wonder if LoL scene is so easy ^.< i mean you would need a very good team first, also not only are there no "new terran rising stars" but the terrans known are quitting, drowning in drama (mma) or cannot even a fifth gsl title?
ok hyperbole on that last one, but i sure hope terran representation does not decrease to european laddervalues...
LoL and Dota/2 are games I do not understand. So slow, boring and not even entertaining.... I dont understand why someone from sc2 would switch to that game.
I must not understand something about those kind of games, obv.
On October 25 2012 06:27 RinconH wrote: How is a SC2 progamer going to benefit switching to LOL?
Aren't the mechanics required so much less in LOL that having the multi-tasking skills required for SC2 are wasted?
It seems the low skill ceiling and huge player base would make it harder to succeed in LOL.
The skill ceiling in LoL is not low.
The base mechanics for sc2 are harder, but LoL is a directly competitive game (like sc2) which means that neither have a skill ceiling as you can always play slightly better than your opponent in engagements.
to anyone who's saying that SCToo is all fine, and there's a 100+ new players and etc., don't tell me this is what a community & news headline column should look like. Also add Movie, by.hero, Shuttle and so forth who chose Afreeca and BW, and let's be clear also about the fact that while sCsC has been maybe more into LoL for a year now, CoCa and Puzzle are def not the random code B guys whose transfer does not matter.
GL for all parties, though, I hope they find what they are looking for.
this anxiety about people going to lol is a little bit like what we felt in the bw scene when estro disbanded... is it the beginning of the end - like it was for bw?
On October 25 2012 06:33 PVJ wrote:
to anyone who's saying that SCToo is all fine, and there's a 100+ new players and etc., don't tell me this is what a community & news headline column should look like. Also add Movie, by.hero, Shuttle and so forth who chose Afreeca and BW, and let's be clear also about the fact that while sCsC has been maybe more into LoL for a year now, CoCa and Puzzle are def not the random code B guys whose transfer does not matter.
GL for all parties, though, I hope they find what they are looking for.
Starcraft 2 has been out for over 2 years already. It's natural for players to get burned out from the game and/or lack of success and move onto newer and more profitable scenes. HOTS will reinvigorate the scene with a small boost. But it's not like stream numbers for big events are down or anything like that. Players are skill making huge amounts of money. SC2 is as alive and well as it's always been, people need to calm down.
On October 25 2012 06:10 Tunkeg wrote: LoL- Where SC2 hasbeens goes to die...
Oh, the irony.
Irony because the same could be said for BW'ers switching to SC2? It was true for them, and will be even more so for the SC2-LoL switchers, as the games are more different.
On October 24 2012 18:14 smileface wrote: "starcraft is doing fine... not going anywhere"
yeah... right...
Put yourself in his position. You have a chronic disease that prevents you from practicing too much. You're not doing that well. You're not in the GSL even. On the other hand, KesPa pros are switching over, and are rapidly proving their dominance. What chance do you stand in the pro SC2 scene?
sC realizes it, so he switched. Unfortunate, as he was one of those players i liked watching, but not particularly surprising. SC2 scene is doing better than fine if you ask me.
On October 25 2012 06:13 Laneir wrote: so many players going to LoL
we just got 100 new Kespa players... so of course some of the bottom feeders are going to move on to something else
Wasn't the scene supposed to grow, so it could sustain more players? I mean, it's not like there are no skillful players in LoL. So you have to catch up on a different terrain.
But it seems, LoL is growing, so that it can absorb, feed and interest more proplayers.
On October 25 2012 06:35 Elroi wrote: this anxiety about people going to lol is a little bit like what we felt in the bw scene when estro disbanded... is it the beginning of the end - like it was for bw?
to anyone who's saying that SCToo is all fine, and there's a 100+ new players and etc., don't tell me this is what a community & news headline column should look like. Also add Movie, by.hero, Shuttle and so forth who chose Afreeca and BW, and let's be clear also about the fact that while sCsC has been maybe more into LoL for a year now, CoCa and Puzzle are def not the random code B guys whose transfer does not matter.
GL for all parties, though, I hope they find what they are looking for.
wait.... what? thats terrible for T8 if its true.
fuck
yea i know, I only saw these on TL BW forum threads too, so I mean it might not be a 100% true, but I'd guess it is. ArvickHero knows what he's writing (eg. by.hero listed in the ex-pro team for the sospa showmatches).
It's also pretty obvious that people (incl. myself) are anxious because SC2 (supposedly) killed BW (before it was due) and now that might be dead too with all the players heroes teams histories they cared for so much gone, or at least shattered, for ever. The image that the flux KeSPA meant is not sustainable for the Korean SCene does not help the case, because if it would be a healthy growing market, it'd not just sustain but, like literally, suck up all the KeSPA A-, B-teams, and even underground hardcore amateurs (which it seems like is not the case).
Off topic, but this actually makes me think: When was the last time we heard about new (half)pro SC players who rocked the scene, had a good GSTL match or something else like this? Life obviously is not a valid answer, because he was around with ZeNex for a relatively long time.
sCfOu was the sole reason for my switch over to Terran from Protoss about a year ago, when I first started watching streams and I saw the finals of the LG Cinema 3D Super Tournament between sC and DRG. That series was so epic and it inspired me to start playing Terran. Although I have come back to playing Protoss at the beginning of this year, I still owe it to sC for the inspiring playstyle that he had. I just wish that less of these very good professional players would move onto other games.
to anyone who's saying that SCToo is all fine, and there's a 100+ new players and etc., don't tell me this is what a community & news headline column should look like. Also add Movie, by.hero, Shuttle and so forth who chose Afreeca and BW, and let's be clear also about the fact that while sCsC has been maybe more into LoL for a year now, CoCa and Puzzle are def not the random code B guys whose transfer does not matter.
GL for all parties, though, I hope they find what they are looking for.
LoL players change teams all the time. After the International, like half the teams in Dota2 had roster changes, died, or teams changed sponsors.
You act like LoL and Dota2 are stable when it comes to team rosters.
to anyone who's saying that SCToo is all fine, and there's a 100+ new players and etc., don't tell me this is what a community & news headline column should look like. Also add Movie, by.hero, Shuttle and so forth who chose Afreeca and BW, and let's be clear also about the fact that while sCsC has been maybe more into LoL for a year now, CoCa and Puzzle are def not the random code B guys whose transfer does not matter.
GL for all parties, though, I hope they find what they are looking for.
If 100+ players joined that means 100+ players are probably going to leave because the scene cant support it.
I think it was expected that the 'marginal' ESF and kespa players would retire when both pro korean scenes started merging. After all, if guys like Rain can be so good, so fast, what about the bw code s guys? guys like sc (who has had health issues anyways) are caught between a rock and a hard place, so they've decided to give it a try at another game while they still have the time.
HOTS will definitely be a shot in the arm of the pro scene and hopefully will be enough to sustain it for at least a couple of more years, though I'm still very doubtful we'll be playing GSL's 8 to 10 years from now. just my 2 cents.
Umm so, so far this thread has been Post, Post, Shit on LoL, Post, sC switched cuz of money, Post. Why guys? he had serious health issues, and LoL isn't a no skill game. I'm surprised that is still here when people will play DotA2 and not get attacked. This idea, especially in the SC2 section, where not too long ago SC2 people were angry at BW people because they said SCTOO took no skill is upsetting. sC had serious health issues, its not surprising that he would switch because of them, furthermore he had started to fall off (IMO he is kind of like Rain in this matter). Finally, why does any kind of pro switching to another game concern us so? A lot of foreign players came from other games (Grubby was WC3, BeastyQT was CS, HuK was CC, etc.) a lot of pro players in general did not start out at BW, they started on other games and then switched out of them into SC2. It should be unsurprising that, that behaviour would occur in this community also.
Ahh so sad. I knew he hadn't been putting up great results lately and with the kespa switch things are only getting harder. But dang he had some memorable games. Going to miss him
I remember his game vs losira in gsl round of 8 or 4. The game they played on Terminus was one of the most exciting games of sc2 i have ever seen. Then there was sc's game vs nestea in the next round when nestea remarkably held his push on cross fire. I will actually miss sc
i dont understand why all the switching? sure, there is probably more money, but why switch from a game that nobody, NOBODY is playing as good as it can be played all the players are making noobish mistakes, scouting poorly (only on particular timings), bad army possitioning (i see this everyday, EVERY SINGLE GAME), having idle workers, bad multitasking (a gsl CODE S contender getting a hole expansion with workers killed by 2 ZEALOTS), and the list goes on how can you say: "i am bad at this game, maybe i should switch to this chicken soup everybody is playing" when pretty much everybody is bad shouldnt this make you try harder i know sc had health problems and stuff, but there are so many "good" player switching (puzzle took slayers to the gstl finals last season)
I don't really see this as a big deal. He wasn't really doing that well nor was he a big part of the community. People that lack conviction shouldn't really be called pros since he has been slacking off on training and playing lol instead. And players switching between games isn't something new.
kespa has an unfair advantage of RTS experience, skill, and resources at their disposal. GSL players competing with kespa players is akin to Chinese DotA starting to take over Dota2. Or to make a non-gaming reference, it's like American students trying to compete with an influx of Chinese/Taiwanese FOB students in Mathematics LoL has more money in it and less competition(in Korea -- I assume this is true anyway), so at the end of the day it makes sense for just about everyone who doesn't have a salary and is decent at LoL to switch over.
2 threads today about people who have been SC2 pros since the beginning quitting to play LoL and DOTA2. But Destiny is wrong, because Incontrol said so..
Wow, tbh sC and coca were 2 players I really looked forward to watching develop. They have so much raw skill it's amazing. We will always remember sC for his tempo based marine tank pushes in tvz, such brutal efficiency and macro until all your larva is gone.
Very sadenned by this news but it isn't really surprising, SC didn't have the big comeback everyone hoped for. He didn't play for too long and lost too much time and skill. Switching to an other game will let him start anew and have a chance to make money again.
He was my fav Terran player when he was active, sad to see him go but I wish him the best of luck, especially with his medical problems. GL! I see him as a Top player :p
Is anyone else disappointed about players leaving SC2 for Dota2/LoL? I loved DotA (the original from WC3) but to me, personally, these games (DotA/LoL/DotA2) never compared to the competitiveness of SC2/BW or skill capacity and requirements of SC2/BW.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
bw makes sc2 look like the sims. See what i did there?
Saying "See what i did there?" doesn't make anyone look twice at your worthless post, or care anymore. SC2 should never be in the same sentence as The Sims when comparing games.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I played dota competitively for 5-6 years and now when I play Dota2 I'm sooooo fucking bored. Farm farm farm... hmmm I guess I'll farm some more... sweet a team fight, that was a good 8 seconds.. now back to farming! 60 minutes later gg. I would talk about LoL but LoL is just... LoL.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
straight up which game is harder to play. I really don't see anyone arguing that LoL has a higher skill ceiling than sc2.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
straight up which game is harder to play. I really don't see anyone arguing that LoL has a higher skill ceiling than sc2.
Which tastes better, an apple or an orange?
What makes sc2 harder? How do you quantify teamwork and synergy between players/champs into numbers to compare it to anything in sc2?
Lastly, ASSUMING we all agreed sc2 was harder, does that make LoL a noob only game? The giants won the superbowl last year, does that make the patriots a bad team?
lol, seriously? This too...again...another thread...has turned into LoL vs SC2?
Why don't we at least give credit where it is due? You want to fight over games, fight over their developers. Riot has made all the right moves, nourished and facilitated continual growth and interest for their game. While Blizzard has let their game rot. Who cares which ones require skill, or are harder or more demanding, none of this matters. We know insanely simplistic games can be huge, and astonishingly difficult games can be just as big.
But the fact remains is that the one that is treated the best, and handled the best, will be out on top. And those that fail should be shown the error of their ways, and those who are succeeding should be praised and modeled.
there are way too many amazing players in StarCraft II atm. You have to understand, if you feel you are especially talented but your career is going nowhere because there is too much talent saturation, switching to a much easier game with far less talent saturation sounds like a great idea. subconsciously, I'm sure a lot of mid level/fighting in code a/code b players, have thought about it. If you don't have the luxury of countless foreign tournaments as they do in NA/Europe, its a lot harder to make it in korea right now because there is soooo much competition for only 2 individual tournaments, and 2 team tournaments that don't run that often.
as Artosis said, never before has all of the world's RTS talent been playing one single game.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
Hopefully he can work through his health problems and be successful in LoL - it is clear that he had a lot of potential in SC2, and I wish we got to see more of it!
You do realize LoL is a team game, right? TPA might have won $1,000,000, but that's split between five people. Whoever wins WCS Global Finals will win $100,000 and then however much he/she made through the country and continental finals. All other tournaments like MLG/IPL who have both LoL and SC2 are usually the same prize pool, but the SC2 player gets $50,000 straight up while the LoL team has to split it five ways.
Even with the insane winnings from The International and the S2 World Finals, MC, Mvp, Flash, and I believe Jaedong are the richest e-sport players of all-time with Fatality.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
bw makes sc2 look like the sims. See what i did there?
Saying "See what i did there?" doesn't make anyone look twice at your worthless post, or care anymore. SC2 should never be in the same sentence as The Sims when comparing games.
point being everything is relative. And no league does not have the same skill celing as the sims anymore than sc2 does
On October 25 2012 10:47 Fionn wrote: Where does 10x the prize money come from?
You do realize LoL is a team game, right? TPA might have won $1,000,000, but that's split between five people. Whoever wins WCS Global Finals will win $100,000 and then however much he/she made through the country and continental finals. All other tournaments like MLG/IPL who have both LoL and SC2 are usually the same prize pool, but the SC2 player gets $50,000 straight up while the LoL team has to split it five ways.
Even with the insane winnings from The International and the S2 World Finals, MC, Mvp, Flash, and I believe Jaedong are the richest e-sport players of all-time with Fatality.
And thats fine, splitting money 5 ways, to earn 200k each. Thats cool. The real thing is that they have more viewers on streams = more $, more sponsorships... and the game is still growing. Riot does a great job with the community. Blizzard doesnt. Just because a game isnt starcraft doesnt mean theres no skill. There is skill.
On October 25 2012 10:47 Fionn wrote: Where does 10x the prize money come from?
You do realize LoL is a team game, right? TPA might have won $1,000,000, but that's split between five people. Whoever wins WCS Global Finals will win $100,000 and then however much he/she made through the country and continental finals. All other tournaments like MLG/IPL who have both LoL and SC2 are usually the same prize pool, but the SC2 player gets $50,000 straight up while the LoL team has to split it five ways.
Even with the insane winnings from The International and the S2 World Finals, MC, Mvp, Flash, and I believe Jaedong are the richest e-sport players of all-time with Fatality.
Nope.
edit: dunno actually. prize listings for a few people (such as NaDa) are incomplete. he might be up there too. it seems pretty close.
On October 25 2012 10:47 Fionn wrote: Where does 10x the prize money come from?
You do realize LoL is a team game, right? TPA might have won $1,000,000, but that's split between five people. Whoever wins WCS Global Finals will win $100,000 and then however much he/she made through the country and continental finals. All other tournaments like MLG/IPL who have both LoL and SC2 are usually the same prize pool, but the SC2 player gets $50,000 straight up while the LoL team has to split it five ways.
Even with the insane winnings from The International and the S2 World Finals, MC, Mvp, Flash, and I believe Jaedong are the richest e-sport players of all-time with Fatality.
well 1,000,000 is 10x 100,000.
And even after being split 5 ways it is still 2x the prize money of what someone will win in the WCS finals.
On October 25 2012 10:47 Fionn wrote: Where does 10x the prize money come from?
You do realize LoL is a team game, right? TPA might have won $1,000,000, but that's split between five people. Whoever wins WCS Global Finals will win $100,000 and then however much he/she made through the country and continental finals. All other tournaments like MLG/IPL who have both LoL and SC2 are usually the same prize pool, but the SC2 player gets $50,000 straight up while the LoL team has to split it five ways.
Even with the insane winnings from The International and the S2 World Finals, MC, Mvp, Flash, and I believe Jaedong are the richest e-sport players of all-time with Fatality.
And thats fine, splitting money 5 ways, to earn 200k each. Thats cool. The real thing is that they have more viewers on streams = more $, more sponsorships... and the game is still growing. Riot does a great job with the community. Blizzard doesnt. Just because a game isnt starcraft doesnt mean theres no skill. There is skill.
I agree about the skill part, it is just a different type of skill. Was gm in sc2, and barely 1500 average player in league.. Not trying to say one is easier than the other, but comparing them is irrelevant. All that matters is its hard to be at the top of league, the same way it is hard to be at the top of any other sport/game.
On October 25 2012 10:00 NuKE[vZ] wrote: What do people really see in MoBA games? I think it's just stupid and talentless.
Playing starcraft 2 is the opposite of any moba game.
I agree with this. I played LoL, and I just found it boring. Also hearing about the low skill cap would turn me off of the game quickly. I have a big FPS background and I've seen what happens once I get into games with a low skill cap, I get bored very fast.
Look at the top players in this list. Besides Fatal1ty who plays multiple games, you have 2 BW players at the top who have won multiple star leagues, 2 SC players who have won multiple GSLs, 1 WC 3 player who was the highest earner in WC 3, and then there's a list of about 15 MOBA players who have won 1 big MOBA tournament. It's obvious that MOBA games are rapidly catapulting their winners to the top of the list. Had Na'Vi won TI 2, four of their players would be above virtually everyone but Fatal1ty and Flash.
In a few years time, provided the same players continue to feature in the finals of LoL and Dota 2 tournaments, they're going to overtake SC 2 players very rapidly.
The money is definitely in MOBA games for the best of the best.
To SC's credit, though, it supports a larger mid-tier field than the MOBA games due to the availability of smaller tournaments.
On October 25 2012 11:12 OopsOopsBaby wrote: Whether you split it among 5 players or not, 1,000,000 is still 10 x 100,000.
Why do you care who has a bigger prize pool, are you planning on competing or something? I understand the need to have a fanbase for sc2, but believe it or not it doesn't always have to be at the very top for it to be successful. I think people just want to be "cool" and watch whatever has the most players.
Look at the top players in this list. You have 5 BW players at the top who have won multiple star leagues, and then there's a list of about 15 MOBA players. It's obvious that MOBA games are rapidly catapulting their winners to the top of the list. Had Na'Vi won TI 2, all five of their players would be above everyone but Flash and Fatal1ty, and I'm not sure about Flash because Na'Vi has won other tournaments too.
In a few years time, provided the same players continue to feature in the finals of LoL and Dota 2 tournaments, they're going to overtake SC 2 players very rapidly.
The money is definitely in MOBA games for the best of the best.
To SC's credit, though, it supports a larger mid-tier field than the MOBA games due to the availability of smaller tournaments.
Thats one of the websites I was looking at and like half of the tournaments NaDa has taken top 3 in aren't even listed.
Look at the top players in this list. Besides Fatal1ty who plays multiple games, you have 2 BW players at the top who have won multiple star leagues, 2 SC players who have won multiple GSLs, 1 WC 3 player who was the highest earner in WC 3, and then there's a list of about 15 MOBA players who have won 1 big MOBA tournament. It's obvious that MOBA games are rapidly catapulting their winners to the top of the list. Had Na'Vi won TI 2, four of their players would be above virtually everyone but Fatal1ty and Flash.
In a few years time, provided the same players continue to feature in the finals of LoL and Dota 2 tournaments, they're going to overtake SC 2 players very rapidly.
The money is definitely in MOBA games for the best of the best.
To SC's credit, though, it supports a larger mid-tier field than the MOBA games due to the availability of smaller tournaments.
Well yeah, but bear in mind the Kespa salaries were pretty monstrous and aren't published in the earnings rankings. With that in mind, I'd imagine the BW players would be streets ahead of pretty much everyone.
Also players like Grubby who likely earn a reasonable amount from personal sponsorships, streaming etc etc.
Prize money isn't everything in terms of sustainable E-sports, indeed they probably need to be less top-heavy if we want to support a big pro scene, with mid-tier players still able to make a living.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
most my rl friends play dota .. <.< who cares what your small share of the pie comes from you only see .0001% of the population lol.
Also you kinda need to lay off buddy this is how it always goes with games as they ebb and flow, gamers ALWAYS will complain about their game having problems so i dont see why you would be so up and arms about them being bitter about it, go hang out in the BW forums its 10x worse lol.
Look at the top players in this list. Besides Fatal1ty who plays multiple games, you have 2 BW players at the top who have won multiple star leagues, 2 SC players who have won multiple GSLs, 1 WC 3 player who was the highest earner in WC 3, and then there's a list of about 15 MOBA players who have won 1 big MOBA tournament. It's obvious that MOBA games are rapidly catapulting their winners to the top of the list. Had Na'Vi won TI 2, four of their players would be above virtually everyone but Fatal1ty and Flash.
In a few years time, provided the same players continue to feature in the finals of LoL and Dota 2 tournaments, they're going to overtake SC 2 players very rapidly.
The money is definitely in MOBA games for the best of the best.
To SC's credit, though, it supports a larger mid-tier field than the MOBA games due to the availability of smaller tournaments.
Well yeah, but bear in mind the Kespa salaries were pretty monstrous and aren't published in the earnings rankings. With that in mind, I'd imagine the BW players would be streets ahead of pretty much everyone.
Also players like Grubby who likely earn a reasonable amount from personal sponsorships, streaming etc etc.
Prize money isn't everything in terms of sustainable E-sports, indeed they probably need to be less top-heavy if we want to support a big pro scene, with mid-tier players still able to make a living.
Yeah, not talking about salaries, which I think are higher for top BW players by a huge amount. Tournament earnings are, however, visible in a way that salaries are not. That helps sponsors and organizers advertise.
while the prize-pool is gigantic and eye-opening, i think there've been amendments to player contracts and that a percentage of the winnings goes back to the team.
tbh, i don't even know how long the stretch of time is for the largest LoL and Dota2 leagues. with GSL you know that it is a 1 month span. 50k for 1st, 20k for second, and 8k if you reach the quarterfinals i believe. that is more than respectable pay if you're reaching RO8 each and every month.
do you need to be seeded through qualifiers all season long in LoL? even then, i'm not sure how long season 2 has been, and that was when there was a huge boon to the popularity of the game. honestly, that was when i was most taken in by LoL, even though i only played a handful of ranked games compared to normals. if you are working all year... all year long to compete at the best and brightest competition, i think that deserves some respect, and i think a lot of league players deserve the spotlight.
if i were to talk about the pull of the game itself though, i would say that the regular pub player---despite their other interests and ideas about the game---is a regular person like yourself. they're funny, they're trying a bit too hard to tell their teammates what to do, and they get emotional during the game. i mean that the game pulls in a wide variety of players that just generally want to do well in the game. i don't agree that the game is 'competitive' (competitive at its core) outside of the ring of professional players and the amateur players who try very hard to catch up with them. i've felt that it's a co-op vs. ai, except the opponents are humans who make plays, and make mistakes.
TOP 100 or gtfo means everyone is getting the f*ck out this moment, i can think of 40 of the top 100, and none of them are posters here.
i'm not rated insanely highly in LoL or sc2, and i don't have an incredible attraction towards LoL anymore. it makes me quite sad that the 'circuit' games for league get very few viewers, except the players showered in fandom receive a lot more exposure than a smaller tournament itself. it's beyond sad the lack of responsibility that some streamers for LoL have. they've been caught naked, cussing family members out, or even team-mates over the course of a stream.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I'm sorry, this isn't a bash LoL post.
HOWEVER, when RIOT says IN THEIR GAME that LOL IS AN EASIER VERSION OF DOTA, what do you expect people to say?
It's not a question of different skill sets. They are very similar games with a number of key differences. It just happens that these differences were all aimed at making LoL EASIER and more casual friendly than DOTA. Does that mean it is skilless? No. QUANTITATIVELY is it easier than DOTA? Yes.
Are you gonna argue that Algebra 1 isn't easier than Algebra 2 because they require different skill sets? No, that would be silly.
On October 25 2012 11:10 Wounded31 wrote: D; Starcraft not doing that good D:
Just another stampede victim. There's been a huge influx of talent in the korean scene and it makes sense for some of the mid-tier ESF players to bail to easier games.
Eh, at this point I'm not too surprised. Players come and go, SC2 is facing a bit of dilution, so players switching or retiring is to be expected. I expect that LoL will have players change games as well in time, and in the long term the amount of players will settle for each game where neither has too many or too few. Nothing unexpected here, it's just unfortunate it had to be sC.
Nonetheless, I wish sC a successful future, and look forward to new SC2 talent to take his place (the circle of life, as it were).
I have to say it was (sadly) bound to happen. I've been a sc2 fan since tsl3 but With HoTS proving not to be what we hoped for, sc2 as an esport is going to die. LoL is just a great esport and the way riot promotes it is just awesome. I hope those sc2 terrans will do well in this team context!
I'm a huge SC2 fan (been suscribed to Gomtv for the last 10months) but I fell in love with LoL last month. Both games require a lot of skills in different aspects and are quite different. Stop the LoL bashing, you just don't know what you're talking about.
For instance, for those who think LoL is easy... Just put any LoL team versus AzubuFrost, Taipei Assassins, Najin Sword, or M5, and theyll all get stomped as those 4 top teams are just way better. Those teams are superiors, theres a true difference between a top tier team and an average pro team in league.
Compare it to SC2.... yeah, mvp can get crushed by anyone in the pro scene... sc2 is more luck based (sadly) and that's why I think it'll disappear as an esport.
On October 25 2012 12:48 Ethoex wrote: I really hope this doesn't become a common thing
I don't really care about it on principle, but damnit it's mostly my favourite players who are switching over! Puzzle really didn't get the credit he deserved lately for being one of the only solid players for Slayers in GSTL, and I've been awaiting sC getting back to his peak level for ages. Shame really, but good luck to them all!
On October 25 2012 13:18 Ozell wrote: I'm a huge SC2 fan (been suscribed to Gomtv for the last 10months) but I fell in love with LoL last month. Both games require a lot of skills in different aspects and are quite different. Stop the LoL bashing, you just don't know what you're talking about.
For instance, for those who think LoL is easy... Just put any LoL team versus AzubuFrost, Taipei Assassins, Najin Sword, or M5, and theyll all get stomped as those 4 top teams are just way better. Those teams are superiors, theres a true difference between a top tier team and an average pro team in league.
Compare it to SC2.... yeah, mvp can get crushed by anyone in the pro scene... sc2 is more luck based (sadly) and that's why I think it'll disappear as an esport.
Why do you complain about LoL bashing, with the justification that the bashers are ignorant about it, and claim SC2 is more luck based?
SC2 is actually pretty good at rewarding the better player, especially over a long series. I can't recall the poster who illuminated me to this, with statistical backup, but props to him.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I'm sorry, this isn't a bash LoL post.
HOWEVER, when RIOT says IN THEIR GAME that LOL IS AN EASIER VERSION OF DOTA, what do you expect people to say?
It's not a question of different skill sets. They are very similar games with a number of key differences. It just happens that these differences were all aimed at making LoL EASIER and more casual friendly than DOTA. Does that mean it is skilless? No. QUANTITATIVELY is it easier than DOTA? Yes.
Are you gonna argue that Algebra 1 isn't easier than Algebra 2 because they require different skill sets? No, that would be silly.
Riot did not say that at all. Stop making stuff up. And dota and lol are too different to compare. There are red and blue buffs in lol which doesn't exist in dota. Also, the carries in dota and lol work very differently. Then you have masteries and runes which opens up alot of different paths a champion would play out in game.
On October 25 2012 13:18 Ozell wrote:Compare it to SC2.... yeah, mvp can get crushed by anyone in the pro scene... sc2 is more luck based (sadly) and that's why I think it'll disappear as an esport.
No, just no.
If he did 'get crushed by anyone in the pro scene', then how come he's won like 15 premier tournaments and been on Code S for 10 straight seasons? Son, it's the opposite.
SC2 isn't more luck based, it's the other way around: there has always been a top 30-40 with the same players, both in Korea and outside, and the better player almost always wins except in an extreme occasion where cheese and race imbalance aids a bad one, yet this is extremely rare, considering the amount of tournaments played.
And this is what happened: more players entered the top 30-40 (elephants) and some who became more mediocre (comparatively) left for a game where they make less effort for more profit, and the gap between the most skilled and them is smaller (LoL).
I dont know why some of you are surprised.. LoL has bigger tournaments and more money and MORE VIEWERSHIP. Dont expect Sc2 to live much longer (next 1-2 years).
This one isn't as surprising because I remember reading about how he didn't practice that much at one point because he was spending his time playing LoL. Still disappointing, he looked promising before he had to take time off because of his collapsed lung.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I'm sorry, this isn't a bash LoL post.
HOWEVER, when RIOT says IN THEIR GAME that LOL IS AN EASIER VERSION OF DOTA, what do you expect people to say?
It's not a question of different skill sets. They are very similar games with a number of key differences. It just happens that these differences were all aimed at making LoL EASIER and more casual friendly than DOTA. Does that mean it is skilless? No. QUANTITATIVELY is it easier than DOTA? Yes.
Are you gonna argue that Algebra 1 isn't easier than Algebra 2 because they require different skill sets? No, that would be silly.
It is mechanically easier, and the items/abilities are more straightforward. That means the game is easier to start playing, but doesn't mean it's easier at a high level - as players can improve in non-mechanical ways. Less focus on mechanics means more focus on decision making/tactics/strategy/timing etc.
Every tournament shows the huge room for improvement - even the winning team of LOL's season 2 championships could do a lot to improve their team fights.
On October 25 2012 13:37 strength wrote: I dont know why some of you are surprised.. LoL has bigger tournaments and more money and MORE VIEWERSHIP. Dont expect Sc2 to live much longer (next 1-2 years).
SC is making virtually nothing out of SC2 these days so no I'm not surprised. It's hardly a death knell for the scene seeing some has-been quit. Nestea and more of the old guard will follow the easy money soon enough or go into coaching. If anything I think players like Select and SC quitting are a testament to how much tougher the competition is getting.
We also did just recently get dozens of Kespa pros, who seem to already be at least competitive with your mainstream GSLer like sC. With the arrival of those guys and their inevitable rise, opportunities in SC2 are much slimmer than they were before they arived. I'm not surprised to see a few of these guys leave.
I wonder if his lung ever did collapse. considering all the "injured" excuses teams were coming up with when a player decided to spend more time playing LoL the Sc .
MLG did LoL today and only had 18,000 viewers. The VOD's for IPL5 Korean qualifiers have less views than the GSL in Korea and foreigners.
LoL has huge highs, but is actually pretty similar to Dota2 and SC2 when it comes to non-super hyped tournaments. A majority of fans don't go out of there way to find tournaments it seems.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
On October 25 2012 14:12 SeAK wrote: I wonder if his lung ever did collapse. considering all the "injured" excuses teams were coming up with when a player decided to spend more time playing LoL the Sc .
sC looked like he was actually going to keel over and die one night during the Up/Downs. Pretty sure he wasn't pulling a Puzzle.
At this point its difficult because the best thing for these guys to succeed is to move on but no one wants them to go. I literally just got into starcraft this summer and loooove watching the pro scenes and of course.. Just like halo, it is getting smaller. raaaageee.
On October 25 2012 14:14 Fionn wrote: MLG did LoL today and only had 18,000 viewers. The VOD's for IPL5 Korean qualifiers have less views than the GSL in Korea and foreigners.
LoL has huge highs, but is actually pretty similar to Dota2 and SC2 when it comes to non-super hyped tournaments. A majority of fans don't go out of there way to find tournaments it seems.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
MLG today was just a random showmatch between 2 NA teams. One of the problems with the LoL scene is that everything is terribly advertised outside of the Riot organized tournaments. LoL doesn't have a big website like TL that is accepted as "the" website for the community, so if people just hang around reddit they may or may not see the "in 8 hours, there will be a tournament" thread. To find LoL stuff you have to go and specifically read an event calendar, because there isn't a sidebar like on TL that say "hey, this stuff is happening NOW" on a place where everyone would congregate anyway.
On October 25 2012 14:14 Fionn wrote: MLG did LoL today and only had 18,000 viewers. The VOD's for IPL5 Korean qualifiers have less views than the GSL in Korea and foreigners.
LoL has huge highs, but is actually pretty similar to Dota2 and SC2 when it comes to non-super hyped tournaments. A majority of fans don't go out of there way to find tournaments it seems.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
b/c MLG is terrible tbh. look at the stream numbers for Dyrus, Chaox.. 10's of thousands.. combined with the biggest tournaments drawing over 400k concurrent viewers it's so surprise. Yes it's a simple game to learn but hard to master and hard to master effectively as a team of 5 at the highest levels. If it's so simple why isn't everyone at 2400 elo?
Guess Destiny was right. Here's a well accomplished SC2 player switching to LoL and I guarantee it's not the last. We will see more and more SC2 players switching to LoL
On October 25 2012 14:14 Fionn wrote: MLG did LoL today and only had 18,000 viewers. The VOD's for IPL5 Korean qualifiers have less views than the GSL in Korea and foreigners.
LoL has huge highs, but is actually pretty similar to Dota2 and SC2 when it comes to non-super hyped tournaments. A majority of fans don't go out of there way to find tournaments it seems.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
b/c MLG is terrible tbh. look at the stream numbers for Dyrus, Chaox.. 10's of thousands.. combined with the biggest tournaments drawing over 400k concurrent viewers it's so surprise. Yes it's a simple game to learn but hard to master and hard to master effectively as a team of 5 at the highest levels. If it's so simple why isn't everyone at 2400 elo?
Guess Destiny was right. Here's a well accomplished SC2 player switching to LoL and I guarantee it's not the last. We will see more and more SC2 players switching to LoL
sC was an accomplished player.
sC's high point was May 2011. Since then, he was known for three things: collapsing lungs, having Genius do a ceremony on him, and being the first player Jaedong beat in the GOM studios.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
LoL doesn't have a big website like TL that is accepted as "the" website for the community
Just saw this news before I went to work today, realized that when I got home it would be page after page of all of the sky is falling idiots being in a panicked frenzy over this. Human psychology is amazing though, the way in which when you are too obsessed with something (in this case the belief that sc2 is struggling) you will interpret everything in such a way as to conform with that obsession. People have retired from sc2 since it came out, it's a natural process that some players leave and some transition to other things. Now again like many times before a mid range pro decides to move on to something else but because of the last days of unjustified hysteria suddenly this is the kiss of death for a competitive game that is doing fine, growing and is about to have an expansion out soon. How easily rationality and logical thinking is overruled by gut feeling and fear.
Jinro left sc2 to play poker, people took the rational stance and did not assume that he switched because poker is becoming superior to starcraft and is killing the scene. Likewise if this news had come two weeks ago, before Destiny started his online marketing campaign for his LoL stream, no one would had given a second thought to sc switching games. People would had made the rational conclusions that he has been struggling for a long time, he has had health problems and not practiced enough and he is choosing to switch to a game that is in an expansive phase where the competition is not so stacked yet and overall skill cap is lower.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
LoL doesn't have a big website like TL that is accepted as "the" website for the community
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
LoL doesn't have a big website like TL that is accepted as "the" website for the community
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
LoL doesn't have a big website like TL that is accepted as "the" website for the community
Compare those view numbers to the numbers for threads on our SC2 general forum.
So you are saying... that League of Legends is dying?
No, I'm saying that the league community is more scattered around different sites than the SC2 community is, which is one issue contributing to the fact that smaller, independently organized LoL tournaments don't get the high views that one would expect them to.
I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but you never know.
Again, I agree LoL is a bigger e-sport and has a higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean everything LoL-related is instantly at least 100,000+ viewers and consistent.
LoL doesn't have a big website like TL that is accepted as "the" website for the community
Compare those view numbers to the numbers for threads on our SC2 general forum.
So you are saying... that League of Legends is dying?
No, I'm saying that the league community is more scattered around different sites than the SC2 community is, which is one issue that smaller, independently organized LoL tournaments don't get the high views that one would expect them to.
I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but you never know.
Yeah, I was. Just trying doing what I can to point out the flaws in how people overreact to statistics, considering overreacting to statistics is why people are having these discussions in the first place.
League has a much smaller hardcore following than SC2, but an exponentially larger casual following. There's just less people looking for a forum to chat about stuff and talk strategy and overreact to drama. More people just playing the game for fun and tuning into streams when they're aware of them.
Guess Destiny was right. Here's a well accomplished SC2 player switching to LoL and I guarantee it's not the last. We will see more and more SC2 players switching to LoL
Let me just say lol. Destiny was never a "well accomplished SC2 player." What was his biggest accomplishment? He got 4th in an MLG invitational. He's a scrub who has had some *ahem* *ahem* embarrassing shenanigans as of late and was nothing more than a bombastic jerk in his "heyday." If he wants to switch to LoL it's as my roommate says "baddies be bad."
Guess Destiny was right. Here's a well accomplished SC2 player switching to LoL and I guarantee it's not the last. We will see more and more SC2 players switching to LoL
Let me just say lol. Destiny was never a "well accomplished SC2 player." What was his biggest accomplishment? He got 4th in an MLG invitational. He's a scrub who has had some *ahem* *ahem* embarrassing shenanigans as of late and was nothing more than a bombastic jerk in his "heyday." If he wants to switch to LoL it's as my roommate says "baddies be bad."
Guess Destiny was right. Here's a well accomplished SC2 player switching to LoL and I guarantee it's not the last. We will see more and more SC2 players switching to LoL
Let me just say lol. Destiny was never a "well accomplished SC2 player." What was his biggest accomplishment? He got 4th in an MLG invitational. He's a scrub who has had some *ahem* *ahem* embarrassing shenanigans as of late and was nothing more than a bombastic jerk in his "heyday." If he wants to switch to LoL it's as my roommate says "baddies be bad."
I think he was talking about sC switching
My mistake! Refer to Fionn's comments on sC.
All analysis of Destiny, however, should still stand as it is valid
On October 25 2012 15:00 Cygoris wrote: When will this end? I'm worried for SC2.
It never actually started... There is no problem with Sc 2. There are just a lot of people who have fallen for a meme and the fact that so many are believing in it makes it look credible to people.
In a few months we will be able to look back at this objectively and wonder why the hell the entire community went into panic mode over a thread started by a semi pro sc2 player who is best known for sending dick pics to a moderator for his own team and comparing baneling attacks with rape. A semi pro who is also obviously switching to LoL (probably because he has run out of sc2 teams that are willing to pick him up by now) and is just running a marketing campaign to get his own stream views up.
This explains why he was under performing. Same for Coca and Puzzle. Same for Huk, and Jinro? If you aren't focused on SC2 but spend time playing another game, you can't keep up with the best.
That being said, sC has quite a story with SC2 with many fans rooting for him. I wish him the best of luck.
On October 25 2012 14:54 bokeevboke wrote: SC2 is much better than LoL to watch.
That said. LoL is better than SC2 to play.
Unsolvable dilemma.
EDIT: Dota 2 has the middle ground ALL GO DOTA!!!
I've personally had enough of all the PvZ games revolving around either a 10minute all in or a 25minute turtle game without any action at all.
All matchups need to be nonstop action like in TvT or TvZ or TvP when its bio vs zealot/templar, when this is achieved, thats when SC2 will be the best game to watch.
as a person who recently switched from sc2 fanboy to LoL fanboy this is awesome news, lately the sc2 scene has been a bit meh i encourage every1 who hasnt tried lol to give it a go
whole kespa come to sc2 (100+ GREAT player) few players leave sc2 (1-10 progamers)
END OF SC2 IS NEAR ...
guys ?? math ??
i like playing lol myself but i would NEVER ever watch it ... so boring to watch the same over and over and over ... i dont play sc2 anymore but i love to watch it, i play lol but i would never watch it xD for me, sc2 is like soccer, i cant play but love to watch ^^
On October 25 2012 17:40 CoR wrote: whole kespa come to sc2 (100+ GREAT player) few players leave sc2 (1-10 progamers)
END OF SC2 IS NEAR ...
guys ?? math ??
i like playing lol myself but i would NEVER ever watch it ... so boring to watch the same over and over and over ... i dont play sc2 anymore but i love to watch it, i play lol but i would never watch it xD for me, sc2 is like soccer, i cant play but love to watch ^^
On October 25 2012 17:40 CoR wrote: whole kespa come to sc2 (100+ GREAT player) few players leave sc2 (1-10 progamers)
END OF SC2 IS NEAR ...
guys ?? math ??
i like playing lol myself but i would NEVER ever watch it ... so boring to watch the same over and over and over ... i dont play sc2 anymore but i love to watch it, i play lol but i would never watch it xD for me, sc2 is like soccer, i cant play but love to watch ^^
ye, but you know.. this is only the begininng, and moba games are yet so young.
Don't really see this as a big problem, it is nice that pro gamers now have an option to play a different kind of game as pro's. Maybe Sc was never that suited for starcraft. Do people really think that a few has-been mid level sc2 pro's switch games?
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
Well I am sure some people that don't play LoL watch it. But I kinda have to admit that I can't get into watching LoL, while I did watch counterstrike when it was sheduled before or after warcraft 3. Games can coexist, especially if they are so different. And if it is poker or LoL, both means you failed and you will move on to make more money.
People can talk about LoL's difficulty or casualness all they want. Having only played Dota/Dota2 when it comes to MOBA, LoL doesn't interest me one bit. But you cannot deny that the amount of people that play/watch LoL is enormous and they do, for whatever reason, find that game entertaining.
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
This is the stupidest and most ignorant thing I've heard in a while. It's not even worth pointing out on how many levels you're wrong. It's even more stupid than mindless Jessica bashing COMBINED with writing to sponsors with any minor offence you supposedly had. People are lowering the bar of ignorance (or raising?) on ever increasing speed ever since we've got MOBA people waging a holy war of how their game is the best in the world.
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
This is the stupidest and most ignorant thing I've heard in a while. It's not even worth pointing out on how many levels you're wrong. It's even more stupid than mindless Jessica bashing COMBINED with writing to sponsors with any minor offence you supposedly had. People are lowering the bar of ignorance (or raising?) on ever increasing speed ever since we've got MOBA people waging a holy war of how their game is the best in the world.
James Cameron, save SC2.
You really don't want to understand after 2 years of WOL.
No problem, we'll see after Heart of Boredom will come out, eventually even YOU will agree with what's already happening from some time.
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
On October 24 2012 18:11 Noruxas wrote: Call up Nestea, we need to go back in time and make sure LoL never existed.
xD
Fuck ! so much korean switching to this noob game : /
And its noob because...?
I hope you are kidding. League of Casuals has the same Skill-Ceiling as "The Sims" ...
Im sorry, but until you reach top 100 in LoL, GTFO.
Tired of everyone just fucking bashing league of legends because theyre sour that league has, what, 10x the viewers? 32 MILLION monthly players? Xbox live has 40 million. Sc2 gears shows that SC2 has 500k over the last few months.
10x the prize money?
Really. Its fucking ridiculous this community lately. Sc1 begins to fall, and everyone in sc2 bashes it -- and everyone in sc1 bashing sc2 saying its "EZ MODE OMGZ" and its quite disheartening.
Every game requires skill. If you think league is super ez, go get 3k elo. And i play both games. Both have different TYPES of skill. teamwork, metagame, synergy, timings, countering.... theres a lot of "strategy" to league, tbh.
Let people do as they want. Just gets old seeing a great community start to turn into a damn mob lately, flaming and bashing and pitchforking everything.
/endrant.
EDIT: ALSO. dont even start by saying the game is free. I have at least 10 RL friends that have switched from SC2 to LoL over the last year or two. And i know another 20-30 from my univ that plays league. Theyve all spent over 60$ on skins this year already. Theres a reason riot is making huge bank.
I'm sorry, this isn't a bash LoL post.
HOWEVER, when RIOT says IN THEIR GAME that LOL IS AN EASIER VERSION OF DOTA, what do you expect people to say?
It's not a question of different skill sets. They are very similar games with a number of key differences. It just happens that these differences were all aimed at making LoL EASIER and more casual friendly than DOTA. Does that mean it is skilless? No. QUANTITATIVELY is it easier than DOTA? Yes.
Are you gonna argue that Algebra 1 isn't easier than Algebra 2 because they require different skill sets? No, that would be silly.
It is mechanically easier, and the items/abilities are more straightforward. That means the game is easier to start playing, but doesn't mean it's easier at a high level - as players can improve in non-mechanical ways. Less focus on mechanics means more focus on decision making/tactics/strategy/timing etc.
Every tournament shows the huge room for improvement - even the winning team of LOL's season 2 championships could do a lot to improve their team fights.
You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player. Mechanically easier = easier. BW is harder than SC2. DOTA is harder the LoL. Stop all this different game, different skills BS; that's the biggest and most laughable cop out. I've played DOTA, HON, DOTA2 and LoL. LoL is objectively the easiest of them all.
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
SC2 is tons tons better than LoL for spectators. No doubt of that. Thats why I play LoL but watch exclusively starcraft. But that doesn't mean your theory works.
Here is why: LoL viewership has a potential to grow. New players come and some of them will watch tournaments.
SC2 viewership has little to no potential to grow. No matter how awesome it is. Because people can't just stumble on it, they really need to experience it themselves. I for instance tried to follow American football and Baseball cause they're so famous but in-existent in our country. I couldn't. I learned some rules but it didn't help. So is sc2, a person can't just start watching unless he played it.
Therefore casual gaming is very important for modern games to sustain their success. Most of current SC2 spectators came from brood war, and just follow SC2 cause they got no alternative. And we're stuck here. But due to aging, most of gonna be leaving and SC2 community will start dwindling. Which is basically death of the game.
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k).
On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote: You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player.
Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
Guys! Stop arguing about LoL and SC2. That solves nothing. Instead, focus your power on asking Blizzard to better the game. E.g. redesign protoss to be less boring. Redesign spine crawlers (infestor/broodlord/spines scenarion in PvZ), etc. Ask Blizzard to make the game more enjoyable!
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k).
On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote: You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player.
Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
On October 25 2012 21:31 Snowbear wrote: The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game.
I don't play LoL at all, but during 1st season finals at dreamhack 2011, I was so entertained by the LoL streams that I didn't watch a single SC2 game! As times goes by LoL remains interesting and SC2 gets more boring.
his game vs. nestea was by far my favorite game of that season! i actually went back and watched a couple more times over the last months. "tasteless, get me a cigarette!"- gotta' love that part after the banes hit.
too bad that shortly after this his lungs collapsed over and over again. had that not been... anyways best of luck in the future!
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k).
On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote: You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player.
Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
He isn't in a pro team(never really been). He tried to make a team, it didn't work, he quit. Not much alter the team disbanded. He wasn't anywhere near pro. Could you just stop your stupid, non-existent argument?
Alot of you guys are reading way too into this. Puzzle, Coca and Min all have a terrible taste in their mouth with the SlayerS drama and sC wasn't really seeing results any more. The competitive scene is completely over-saturated with absolute beast talent. This is going to get "worse" before it gets better, in forms of people "retiring" (even though I have reservations that some of these players will return when HOTS drops at a balanced, polish launch)
On October 25 2012 23:29 Hollick wrote: Alot of you guys are reading way too into this. Puzzle, Coca and Min all have a terrible taste in their mouth with the SlayerS drama and sC wasn't really seeing results any more. The competitive scene is completely over-saturated with absolute beast talent. This is going to get "worse" before it gets better, in forms of people "retiring" (even though I have reservations that some of these players will return when HOTS drops at a balanced, polish launch)
That said, gl sC!
....which is currently looking like it wont happen for a long time.
HOTS multiplayer in it's current state is practically ALPHA, they are making enormous changes and units are completely redesigned every patch. They don't have enough people playing the BETA to even properly mass test the changes imo. I highly doubt HOTS itself will be enough to bring SC2 out ahead of the other games or stop players switching.
On October 25 2012 23:29 Hollick wrote: Alot of you guys are reading way too into this. Puzzle, Coca and Min all have a terrible taste in their mouth with the SlayerS drama and sC wasn't really seeing results any more. The competitive scene is completely over-saturated with absolute beast talent. This is going to get "worse" before it gets better, in forms of people "retiring" (even though I have reservations that some of these players will return when HOTS drops at a balanced, polish launch)
That said, gl sC!
....which is currently looking like it wont happen for a long time.
HOTS multiplayer in it's current state is practically ALPHA, they are making enormous changes and units are completely redesigned every patch. They don't have enough people playing the BETA to even properly mass test the changes imo. I highly doubt HOTS itself will be enough to bring SC2 out ahead of the other games or stop players switching.
This has very little to do with SC2 and more the fact that 100 Kespa players just entered the Korean player pool.
Do you realize how difficult the Code A qualifiers were before this? Imagine it now. You have to get incredible luck or be a "current" Code-S quality player to get through (Flash).
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k).
On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote: You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player.
Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
He isn't in a pro team(never really been). He tried to make a team, it didn't work, he quit. Not much alter the team disbanded. He wasn't anywhere near pro. Could you just stop your stupid, non-existent argument?
He has a point.
Azubu, who were in the LoL Finals had a player who only played LoL for 6 months. Yes, he came from DotA (DotA Chaos in Korea) but you can clearly see "how hard" is to get into LoL professionally! In DotA2, the currently professional teams/players are old school pro players from WC3 DotA and very few made it into the pro scene. No matter what you say, LoL professionals will never make into DotA professionally. I will even say more, the currently Na'Vi roster was about to switch to LoL back in the day (Dendi and Puppey played it and were very high Elo) but the others (ArtStyle, LoH and XBOCT) didn't want to.
Good luck to him in LoL. LoL will suffer the same fate that DotA had and currently has in the scene. Asian teams destroying everyone.
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k).
On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote: You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player.
Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
He isn't in a pro team(never really been). He tried to make a team, it didn't work, he quit. Not much alter the team disbanded. He wasn't anywhere near pro. Could you just stop your stupid, non-existent argument?
He has a point.
Azubu, who were in the LoL Finals had a player who only played LoL for 6 months. Yes, he came from DotA (DotA Chaos in Korea) but you can clearly see "how hard" is to get into LoL professionally! In DotA2, the currently professional teams/players are old school pro players from WC3 DotA and very few made it into the pro scene. No matter what you say, LoL professionals will never make into DotA professionally. I will even say more, the currently Na'Vi roster was about to switch to LoL back in the day (Dendi and Puppey played it and were very high Elo) but the others (ArtStyle, LoH and XBOCT) didn't want to.
Good luck to him in LoL. LoL will suffer the same fate that DotA had and currently has in the scene. Asian teams destroying everyone.
You are missing the point. He said that LoL is an easy game and LoL pros were terrible HoN or DotA players and that getting into competitive League is easy. Which is not true. You say that someone with years of practice in the same genre can switch games in half a year. That's quite different and true. But if, according to you, pro players even in Dota2 are oldschool players, how is League easier? That just doesn't make sense.
On October 24 2012 18:14 smileface wrote: "starcraft is doing fine... not going anywhere"
yeah... right...
because players who have fallen off are switching to LoL?
Same thing happened to BW, crappy players and players past prime left for SC2. I don't really think SC2 is going anywhere, but it's an interesting comparison.
This has more to do with sC's decline in sc2 than starcraft dying. People are really overrating him on this thread, he's been dealing with health issues and had not been himself in his last few matches. I really understand him wanting a fresh start and wish him the best of luck.
On October 24 2012 18:14 smileface wrote: "starcraft is doing fine... not going anywhere"
yeah... right...
because players who have fallen off are switching to LoL?
Same thing happened to BW, crappy players and players past prime left for SC2. I don't really think SC2 is going anywhere, but it's an interesting comparison.
BW was still fine when the like of IMMVP, MC and Nestea switched. Also MVP wasn't a crappy BW player, not the best but pretty good nonetheless. BW never was a "dying game", it only "died" because major BW tournament made the switch with the KESPA. Still, BW was going strong and even tho no real inovations were made, the games were still pretty good. I don't know how people read that much into 4 players switching games. They feel like they will make more money in an other game, switch and try to make a living. That's all i get from all that.
When a top tier player in decent shape will switch to an other game saying "SC2 is a bad game, i can't enjoy it so i'm switching to [insert game's name] because it's a better game", i'll start worrying.
Hopefully he finds more success in League of Legends...it just seems like everyone is switching/retiring, but I guess it is what it is. I loved his tvz games vs nestea back in the day in Ro4...
On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote: Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special.
Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo).
When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone.
You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead?
Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing?
A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers...
Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying.
You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k).
On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote: You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player.
Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
You cant say anything about "Truth" when you just got caught lying about Chu becoming "the best LoL player in a month" (seriouslt wtf were you thinking? dudes not even good). It says a lot that you have to lie to make LoL look bad and your game look good.
Awesome news! Now only if more sc2 players switch to LoL, I really wish Tyler would start playing LoL professionally instead of just for fun. Also would be amazing to have Artosis analysis for LoL commentaries, I wish he would switch too :D
On October 26 2012 23:25 SuperFanBoy wrote: Awesome news! Now only if more sc2 players switch to LoL, I really wish Tyler would start playing LoL professionally instead of just for fun. Also would be amazing to have Artosis analysis for LoL commentaries, I wish he would switch too :D
There is something to analyse in LoL? A lot of stuff to do for play-by-play guys, but outside the pick phase, I always thought there wasn't really that much to analyse. Besides, I doubt that Artosis even plays LoL.
I cannot wait for the "my game is better than your game" thought to die down. Seriously, sC likes LoL and wants to play it in the place of SC2. His fans will still cheer for him, LoL will be happy, And the world still turns.
On October 27 2012 01:30 GreYMisT wrote: I cannot wait for the "my game is better than your game" thought to die down. Seriously, sC likes LoL and wants to play it in the place of SC2. His fans will still cheer for him, LoL will be happy, And the world still turns.
Why wouldn't I think that my game is better than another game, if I didn't think so then I'd play that game, wouldn't I?
But I know what you probably mean, I wish people would stop coming to another game's forum telling them that their game is going to die/ the foreign game is better, or stopped being condescending, trolls and so on. But alas, this is the internet, I'm afraid we'll have to live through it.
awwww that's too bad, I really liked sC's play back in the days... I think we all remember the constant stream of marines, which was quite new at the time. Really nice player, I hope he stays healthy ^^ sC hwaiting!
EPT
sC
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Z2ba.png)
