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I completely believe the part about ripping up the contracts. Korean women have a tendency towards the melodramatic. If you're Korean you know what I'm talking about.. such a Korean thing to do.
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On October 23 2012 18:29 Art.FeeL wrote:
I follow only BW and SC2 scene so can anyone tell me if things like these are present in other game communities too?
In physical sports: A ton. (I think of doping of cyclists and the bet scandal in german football)*
In eSports: I know only in BW there was a bet scandal too some years ago. Many progamers got disbanded, I believe
In other Sports: I'd like to know as well.
* If you count football/soccer as a game
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On October 23 2012 18:36 jworld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:20 Shinta) wrote:On October 23 2012 14:03 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 13:57 Shinta) wrote:On October 23 2012 13:48 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 23 2012 13:46 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 23 2012 13:43 Canucklehead wrote:On October 23 2012 13:41 pdd wrote:
Why do both sides need to blame each other just to determine who was at fault for what is essentially a disbanded team? Because Jessica always needs to get in the last word because she is never wrong or at fault and the world is out to get her. Because Jessica people need to get in the last word because she they is are never wrong and the world is out to get her them. Your correction isn't true in the fact that everyone that has come forward and spoken has apologized about their part in the whole mess EXCEPT Jessica. Hell, MC was dragged into it and he eventually apologized and left it at that. Jessica sees people doing stuff wrong and points them out, so they have to apologize. That's both to save face and to exploit people's idiocy. MC talking like that will not work well for him in Korea, or anywhere really... People leaving the team due to injury then immediately searching for a new team get bad reputations because their actions are sneaky and shorthanded. Jessica has done stuff wrong, but most of it has been mere word slip-ups where solid evidence can back her up so that she's not in the wrong in the end. She's protected herself, most, her team after that, and she's gone at other's necks the least (of those 3, though she has done it). Not going to say Jessica is the bestest person in the whole world, but eSports has too many kids, and not enough people like Jessica, so there is no balance. There is no professionalism, just a bunch of kids running around doing whatever they want. Although I don't fully support Jessica, it's more people like Jessica that are needed to make the Korean eSports scene a little more like the old BW scene (better, although it did have it's problems, it at least was legitimate for the most part). More people that have zero business and management experience? More people that can't take responsibility for their own shortcomings and take no blame and instead put it on everyone else? What this scene needs is people that know how to run a successful business organisation that won't get sick of all the nonsense that goes on and get the hell out. More professionals.... The team was well funded and was managed just fine until a bunch of people started to think too highly of themselves and too lowly of others. A bunch of people acting improfessional hurt the team and showed no respect to those they should respect. Seems most of the faults the management had were pointed out after everyone who is really at fault started to affect the team negatively. "All of a sudden, now that I think Jessica is shit even though she didn't do anything wrong (yet), I'm going to start saying that I don't appreciate the current team situation". Yes, Jessica did some shit wrong, but talking about business, she didn't do much wrong at all. As for management, she should have tried harder after the players destroyed the team, she could have saved it but her pride was too angry. Someone slap me in the face if I'm so wrong. In terms of business she failed completely. Slayers was in the strongest position out of any esports team. They had access to the Korean market as well as the foreign market. The team was immensely popular with foreigners after their visit to the US where MMA was winning tournaments and Boxer was making an impact. MMA was a GSL champion and the team won two GSTL titles. It is totally up to her to use all of these feats that no other team could boast to leverage a deal with either local or foreign sponsors. She has already admitted to her failures and her fault in the the team collapsing when hiring J to act on her behalf to secure sponsorships. It was her responsibility being at the top of management to secure the teams long term survival.
Did she actually have any prior management level experience?
Obviously she was an actress in the past, and got to know e-sports through Boxer, but other than her ties to Boxer, was there any actual legitimate and valid business/team management experience in her past which would mean she was actually a good commercial choice for the team manager position?
Throwing someone in at the deep end who lacks experience is a recipe for failure really, and it's not entirely her fault in a sense, but if she didn't have the required experience/skills, then the people who made the decisions to make her manager (most likely herself a Boxer) are responsible for putting themselves in that bad position.
It's possible that if she had been a little more experienced she might have been able to overcome the issues and prevent it coming to this, even if she wasn't entirely responsible for them in the first place.
It would be good if someone like SirScoots/Jason Lake/FXOBoss could contribut ein terms of what is required in order to run a team successfully, since they have some long-ish term experience of actually managing teams as businesses.
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Management failed. I dont care what players did or said. If management cant deal with it in the proper way then they have failed, its as simple as that. This is how it works in teams and sports. If whole team is moving in the wrong direction and in a bad state the themanager gets sacked.
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Jessica seems utterly incompetent but then we already knew that from the manner in which she's conducted herself in the past.
There is no worthwhile apology for such situations. Why? If a player goes AWOL at Manchester United, the buck stops at Fergie and you'd better be damn sure he'll deal with it. SlayerS death is solely on her head. More e-sports managers should learn from the greats.
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On October 23 2012 18:37 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame. So in asian culture management takes no responsibility ? SlayerS was the richest team out there when they started in the end had no sponsors, made huge mistakes in it's choice of management, had an awful atmosfer in there team house. I don't know about you but i believe in any culture you should draw atleast conclusions that even though MMA etc are at fault aswell, you as the team owner did alot of things wrong to. Players now said they were sorry for everyhing, she got what she wanted, yet i doubt she will stop. Asian culture ? Somehow i doubt it.
All I am pointing out is that while we are siding with MMA and Crank and can empathise with their situation it seems that most Koreans and other Asian nationals are taking Jessica's side and are putting a greater emphasis on their inappropriate behaviour.
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On October 23 2012 18:47 jworld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:37 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame. So in asian culture management takes no responsibility ? SlayerS was the richest team out there when they started in the end had no sponsors, made huge mistakes in it's choice of management, had an awful atmosfer in there team house. I don't know about you but i believe in any culture you should draw atleast conclusions that even though MMA etc are at fault aswell, you as the team owner did alot of things wrong to. Players now said they were sorry for everyhing, she got what she wanted, yet i doubt she will stop. Asian culture ? Somehow i doubt it. All I am pointing out is that while we are siding with MMA and Crank and can empathise with their situation it seems that most Koreans and other Asian nationals are taking Jessica's side and are putting a greater emphasis on their inappropriate behaviour.
The immediate reason that comes to mind is the fact that MMA and Crank are still fairly young, while Boxer and Jessica are not only much older, but have much more recognition and admiration. Speaking against your elders, especially in public is a very big nono in most circumstances..
edit: i see that that reason has been stated before. Yea... it's pretty important. It's one of those cultural oddities that if you weren't raised in the culture, it would be very difficult to fully grasp.. Especially when viewed from the lenses of another..
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On October 23 2012 18:37 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame. So in asian culture management takes no responsibility ? SlayerS was the richest team out there when they started in the end had no sponsors, made huge mistakes in it's choice of management, had an awful atmosfer in there team house. I don't know about you but i believe in any culture you should draw atleast conclusions that even though MMA etc are at fault aswell, you as the team owner did alot of things wrong to. Players now said they were sorry for everyhing, she got what she wanted, yet i doubt she will stop. Asian culture ? Somehow i doubt it.
she took responsibility for the J dude (which lead to all the stuff you are talking about).
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On October 23 2012 18:49 thepuppyassassin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:47 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 18:37 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame. So in asian culture management takes no responsibility ? SlayerS was the richest team out there when they started in the end had no sponsors, made huge mistakes in it's choice of management, had an awful atmosfer in there team house. I don't know about you but i believe in any culture you should draw atleast conclusions that even though MMA etc are at fault aswell, you as the team owner did alot of things wrong to. Players now said they were sorry for everyhing, she got what she wanted, yet i doubt she will stop. Asian culture ? Somehow i doubt it. All I am pointing out is that while we are siding with MMA and Crank and can empathise with their situation it seems that most Koreans and other Asian nationals are taking Jessica's side and are putting a greater emphasis on their inappropriate behaviour. The immediate reason that comes to mind is the fact that MMA and Crank are still fairly young, while Boxer and Jessica are not only much older, but have much more recognition and admiration. Speaking against your elders, especially in public is a very big nono in most circumstances..
Yeah, it's a cultural thing. Over here, we have no problem ripping our elders to pieces - it's almost a right of passage unless they've done something truly spectacular with their lives.
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The whole point boils down why Crank left the team. That is from Jessica's point of view. There is so much emphasis on this fact. Why the hell it is so much important? He didnt even have a contract to follow. No one cant deny that he didnt feel good in that enviroment.
But for this alone (reason of leaving) Korean netizens and Jessica feel entitled to be offended so much that it doesnt even matter what happens to Crank's career. I guess it would make complete sense if Slayers were still carrying on as the team. But as it stands now, it is pure b*shit. From professional standpoint, Crank did not do anything wrong. It has to be pure social aspect. Pretty sad.
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On October 23 2012 18:29 Frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:19 TOCHMY wrote:On October 23 2012 18:14 felisconcolori wrote:On October 23 2012 18:07 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 18:03 felisconcolori wrote:
So wait, wait...
Jessica didn't say that she told Boxer to go to SKT1? I thought that was in the very first set of statements.
And I am extremely wary of any "clarifications" that come later. From anyone.
I don't know anymore. I just don't.
... and I don't care. At least as much as I did to start with. It's one team, one group of players; it's not the end of the world no matter how big a name Boxer has. (Which, note, he is not bringing into the fight by staying out of it. Why, I don't know. Maybe just because he doesn't want to get involved in the public drama fest. Or else nothing he can say would be beneficial to him or to anyone else.)
But this too shall pass, and in the end it's a whole load of sound and fury which isn't signifying much of anything else right now. I feel sorry for everyone that is stuck in this flurry of accusations, counter accusations, justifications, clarifications, and whatever other '-ations' might be going on. The GSL goes on. The GSTL goes on. OSL goes on. So too NASL, IPL, MLG, DH, etc. Best wishes for everyone in the future.
I might check up for a summation of "what the eff happened here" in six months or so. If there aren't still press releases and hugely public arguments going on. what the heck are you saying. Jessica suggested to Boxer that he should take a break and during that time SKT1 happened to need a coach so Boxer decided to go back to SKT1. Know your shits man. From "Slayers to disband" (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376041), first post, "mod approved translation", final paragraph of the (extremely long, meandering, wandering) "Why Boxer joined SKT1 Telecom" section...
Boxer was quickly losing his passion as player and manager, and it was tough on me as I watched it happen. He was teaching the players his 10 + years of experience in and outside the game, but the players weren't readily accepting it. So I suggested something that would help him, help T1, and perhaps motivate the remaining players on SlayerS. After thinking about it for a few days, Boxer decided that would be the best course of action.
So, I repeat... Jessica didn't say "Boxer, you should go to SKT1 because that might help you?" ?
Know your shits man.
lol well played man! BURN, FROST! http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=126696&db=issueArticle on Boxer's return to SKT1 I'll translate the most relevant part: 가장 먼저 안지환 사무국장은 “임요환은 2004년 창단부터 2010년까지 SK텔레콤에서 선수 생활을 했었고, 오버 트리플 크라운을 달성하며 SK텔레콤이 명문 게임단으로 거듭나는데 큰 공을 세운 선수였다. 현재 프로리그에서 스타2 병행을 하면서 스타2 전담 코치의 필요성을 느꼈고, 임요환이 가장 적임자라고 생각해 영입을 하게 됐다”고 임요환의 코치 영입 배경에 대해 설명했다. "First, secretary-general of SKT Ahn Ji Hwan explains the reason for recruiting Lim Yo Hwan as a coach: "Lim Yo Hwan was a player at SKTelecom ever since its creation in 2004 all the way to 2010 and was a key factor in making SKTelecom a prestigious team. Currently, in our switch to sc2 in proleague, we felt the necessity of a Starcraft 2 coach and felt Boxer was the best choice for this position and hired him"" Now I'll say it again, Jessica suggested to Boxer he takes a break and during THAT TIME, SKT1 happened to need a coach hence why Boxer called SKT1. So yeah know your shit man
It makes for a rather convenient excuse for Boxer to abandon SlayerS while it was in trouble. Just like it is rather convenient that Boxer has no input on his teams breakup when he is a key figure in the controversies. Convenient that he is trying to hide amid this debacle...
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On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame.
In eastern culture, we don't appreciate that sort of behavior very well.
If Crank for example, felt the management was bad and nothing was done, he could have just said he didn't find the atmosphere is suited for him and he wanted to leave for a team that is more likeable.
But rather, he just complained, even if the managers have done SOME actions according to his words, he kept on complaining as if the managers have not done anything.
These kind of things decrease the morale of the whole team, especially if he raises the concern to other players, it just makes the whole team think more negatively towards the managers.
Then he also lied about why he leave the team.
I remember quite well that the first day he stream after he left slayers, he said he is looking for a foreign team. Now I don't have the evidence to back me up, but there were people suggesting "liquid'crank"
The second one in particular is the worst of all. It shows a player completely disrespecting the manager team and would lie to get out from a team. Lying to elders is bad, lying to be out of the team is bad, especially when he clearly stated he isn't looking for another team or foreign team, this is even worse and he was caught by jessica.
It's a total disrespect to the manager (who said crank was released due to neck injury) and as an elder
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On October 23 2012 18:49 PVJ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:37 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame. So in asian culture management takes no responsibility ? SlayerS was the richest team out there when they started in the end had no sponsors, made huge mistakes in it's choice of management, had an awful atmosfer in there team house. I don't know about you but i believe in any culture you should draw atleast conclusions that even though MMA etc are at fault aswell, you as the team owner did alot of things wrong to. Players now said they were sorry for everyhing, she got what she wanted, yet i doubt she will stop. Asian culture ? Somehow i doubt it. she took responsibility for the J dude (which lead to all the stuff you are talking about).
Apparently not, if she ment it she would understand other people's situation alot more and would not keep posting this drama.
Saying you made a mistake is different then saying it and actualy meaning it and thinking about the consequenses it had.
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On October 23 2012 18:29 Frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:19 TOCHMY wrote:On October 23 2012 18:14 felisconcolori wrote:On October 23 2012 18:07 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 18:03 felisconcolori wrote:
So wait, wait...
Jessica didn't say that she told Boxer to go to SKT1? I thought that was in the very first set of statements.
And I am extremely wary of any "clarifications" that come later. From anyone.
I don't know anymore. I just don't.
... and I don't care. At least as much as I did to start with. It's one team, one group of players; it's not the end of the world no matter how big a name Boxer has. (Which, note, he is not bringing into the fight by staying out of it. Why, I don't know. Maybe just because he doesn't want to get involved in the public drama fest. Or else nothing he can say would be beneficial to him or to anyone else.)
But this too shall pass, and in the end it's a whole load of sound and fury which isn't signifying much of anything else right now. I feel sorry for everyone that is stuck in this flurry of accusations, counter accusations, justifications, clarifications, and whatever other '-ations' might be going on. The GSL goes on. The GSTL goes on. OSL goes on. So too NASL, IPL, MLG, DH, etc. Best wishes for everyone in the future.
I might check up for a summation of "what the eff happened here" in six months or so. If there aren't still press releases and hugely public arguments going on. what the heck are you saying. Jessica suggested to Boxer that he should take a break and during that time SKT1 happened to need a coach so Boxer decided to go back to SKT1. Know your shits man. From "Slayers to disband" (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376041), first post, "mod approved translation", final paragraph of the (extremely long, meandering, wandering) "Why Boxer joined SKT1 Telecom" section...
Boxer was quickly losing his passion as player and manager, and it was tough on me as I watched it happen. He was teaching the players his 10 + years of experience in and outside the game, but the players weren't readily accepting it. So I suggested something that would help him, help T1, and perhaps motivate the remaining players on SlayerS. After thinking about it for a few days, Boxer decided that would be the best course of action.
So, I repeat... Jessica didn't say "Boxer, you should go to SKT1 because that might help you?" ?
Know your shits man.
lol well played man! BURN, FROST! http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=126696&db=issueArticle on Boxer's return to SKT1 I'll translate the most relevant part: 가장 먼저 안지환 사무국장은 “임요환은 2004년 창단부터 2010년까지 SK텔레콤에서 선수 생활을 했었고, 오버 트리플 크라운을 달성하며 SK텔레콤이 명문 게임단으로 거듭나는데 큰 공을 세운 선수였다. 현재 프로리그에서 스타2 병행을 하면서 스타2 전담 코치의 필요성을 느꼈고, 임요환이 가장 적임자라고 생각해 영입을 하게 됐다”고 임요환의 코치 영입 배경에 대해 설명했다. "First, secretary-general of SKT Ahn Ji Hwan explains the reason for recruiting Lim Yo Hwan as a coach: "Lim Yo Hwan was a player at SKTelecom ever since its creation in 2004 all the way to 2010 and was a key factor in making SKTelecom a prestigious team. Currently, in our switch to sc2 in proleague, we felt the necessity of a Starcraft 2 coach and felt Boxer was the best choice for this position and hired him"" Now I'll say it again, Jessica suggested to Boxer he takes a break and during THAT TIME, SKT1 happened to need a coach hence why Boxer called SKT1. So yeah know your shit man
So, what you're saying is... that Jessica was completely uninvolved, and never gave any advice to Boxer on whether or not he should accept that offer? Or put forward that offer?
Your statement does not adress that in any way shape or form. Mine states specifically that Jessica did advise him to go to SKT1. I don't dispute that he may have taken a break, or that the offer from SKT1 came in during that time. What I said was, Jessica did actually advise Boxer to take that offer.
So yeah know your shit man
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On October 23 2012 18:40 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:36 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 18:20 Shinta) wrote:On October 23 2012 14:03 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 13:57 Shinta) wrote:On October 23 2012 13:48 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 23 2012 13:46 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 23 2012 13:43 Canucklehead wrote:On October 23 2012 13:41 pdd wrote:
Why do both sides need to blame each other just to determine who was at fault for what is essentially a disbanded team? Because Jessica always needs to get in the last word because she is never wrong or at fault and the world is out to get her. Because Jessica people need to get in the last word because she they is are never wrong and the world is out to get her them. Your correction isn't true in the fact that everyone that has come forward and spoken has apologized about their part in the whole mess EXCEPT Jessica. Hell, MC was dragged into it and he eventually apologized and left it at that. Jessica sees people doing stuff wrong and points them out, so they have to apologize. That's both to save face and to exploit people's idiocy. MC talking like that will not work well for him in Korea, or anywhere really... People leaving the team due to injury then immediately searching for a new team get bad reputations because their actions are sneaky and shorthanded. Jessica has done stuff wrong, but most of it has been mere word slip-ups where solid evidence can back her up so that she's not in the wrong in the end. She's protected herself, most, her team after that, and she's gone at other's necks the least (of those 3, though she has done it). Not going to say Jessica is the bestest person in the whole world, but eSports has too many kids, and not enough people like Jessica, so there is no balance. There is no professionalism, just a bunch of kids running around doing whatever they want. Although I don't fully support Jessica, it's more people like Jessica that are needed to make the Korean eSports scene a little more like the old BW scene (better, although it did have it's problems, it at least was legitimate for the most part). More people that have zero business and management experience? More people that can't take responsibility for their own shortcomings and take no blame and instead put it on everyone else? What this scene needs is people that know how to run a successful business organisation that won't get sick of all the nonsense that goes on and get the hell out. More professionals.... The team was well funded and was managed just fine until a bunch of people started to think too highly of themselves and too lowly of others. A bunch of people acting improfessional hurt the team and showed no respect to those they should respect. Seems most of the faults the management had were pointed out after everyone who is really at fault started to affect the team negatively. "All of a sudden, now that I think Jessica is shit even though she didn't do anything wrong (yet), I'm going to start saying that I don't appreciate the current team situation". Yes, Jessica did some shit wrong, but talking about business, she didn't do much wrong at all. As for management, she should have tried harder after the players destroyed the team, she could have saved it but her pride was too angry. Someone slap me in the face if I'm so wrong. In terms of business she failed completely. Slayers was in the strongest position out of any esports team. They had access to the Korean market as well as the foreign market. The team was immensely popular with foreigners after their visit to the US where MMA was winning tournaments and Boxer was making an impact. MMA was a GSL champion and the team won two GSTL titles. It is totally up to her to use all of these feats that no other team could boast to leverage a deal with either local or foreign sponsors. She has already admitted to her failures and her fault in the the team collapsing when hiring J to act on her behalf to secure sponsorships. It was her responsibility being at the top of management to secure the teams long term survival. Did she actually have any prior management level experience? Obviously she was an actress in the past, and got to know e-sports through Boxer, but other than her ties to Boxer, was there any actual legitimate and valid business/team management experience in her past which would mean she was actually a good commercial choice for the team manager position? Throwing someone in at the deep end who lacks experience is a recipe for failure really, and it's not entirely her fault in a sense, but if she didn't have the required experience/skills, then the people who made the decisions to make her manager (most likely herself a Boxer) are responsible for putting themselves in that bad position. It's possible that if she had been a little more experienced she might have been able to overcome the issues and prevent it coming to this, even if she wasn't entirely responsible for them in the first place. It would be good if someone like SirScoots/Jason Lake/FXOBoss could contribut ein terms of what is required in order to run a team successfully, since they have some long-ish term experience of actually managing teams as businesses.
I agree with you whole heartedly that she didn't have the required business skills to run a successful team. Of course it's not her fault that the situation occurred but what I took exception to was the fact that it took her so long to admit her own fault in the teams downfall. Also the fact that she is dragging players names through the mud over such stupid issues which should not of had a material affect on the teams survival.
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HOLY ****! Jessica is literally going to kill esports... She won't stop at nothing, and she such a hypocrite she says she will let it go, then in the same statement states that she will reveal everything anyways wtf?
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can anyone here enlighten me on what the law in korea is on recording someone without their knowledge?
EDIT** specifically phone conversations, in america its illegal in the majority of the states with a few being exceptions
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Switzerland2892 Posts
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On October 23 2012 18:50 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 18:49 thepuppyassassin wrote:On October 23 2012 18:47 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 18:37 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 18:06 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 17:52 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:50 freakhill wrote:On October 23 2012 17:47 Lysanias wrote:On October 23 2012 17:40 freakhill wrote:
I am supporting Jessica in these endeavors. I deem Crank's and MMA's behaviour unacceptable and can't show support for these players anymore. Let's hope the remaining Slayer players find some good new homes...
Crank and MMA contributed heavily to destroy a nice place for progamers... So only players are to blame ? For a woman who's fighting so hard to get justice she did bitter little to comfort and restore players trust after that Manager J incident, who she herself assigned. Yes no blame at all to Jessica. no blame to jessica at all. i see boxer and jessica putting all they have, and 2-3 ungrateful and immature kids. Fair enough, i'll respect your pink glass judgement. And i will 100% agree to disagree. It seems to be a conflict of culture. In the East it looks as if one should value their elders and have some sort of unwavering respect and trust. Where as in the West we have more of an emphasis on our own personal rights and entitlements. Thus we can empathise with MMA and Crank who were looking out for themselves and seem to be caught up in a petty war of whose to blame. So in asian culture management takes no responsibility ? SlayerS was the richest team out there when they started in the end had no sponsors, made huge mistakes in it's choice of management, had an awful atmosfer in there team house. I don't know about you but i believe in any culture you should draw atleast conclusions that even though MMA etc are at fault aswell, you as the team owner did alot of things wrong to. Players now said they were sorry for everyhing, she got what she wanted, yet i doubt she will stop. Asian culture ? Somehow i doubt it. All I am pointing out is that while we are siding with MMA and Crank and can empathise with their situation it seems that most Koreans and other Asian nationals are taking Jessica's side and are putting a greater emphasis on their inappropriate behaviour. The immediate reason that comes to mind is the fact that MMA and Crank are still fairly young, while Boxer and Jessica are not only much older, but have much more recognition and admiration. Speaking against your elders, especially in public is a very big nono in most circumstances.. Yeah, it's a cultural thing. Over here, we have no problem ripping our elders to pieces - it's almost a right of passage unless they've done something truly spectacular with their lives.
Your tone suggests you misunderstood mine. I was merely attempting to be informative. And even if I was taking a stance.You're statement also suggests that there aren't varying degrees to which a cultural element such as the one described are observed across these societies. It's not either you do or don't.
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Canada16217 Posts
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EPT
