EPTI mean, if we were to look at the current esf teams, they mostly have a few if none players leave the team while slayers is just a fuck load of mess now. I would say that tells a lot about the coach and managers, the fact that her own players leave her is just a sign that something is wrong with her. Just my opinion, but if its just one (MMA) then its fine, but now even alicia, crank speaking out against her just tells a lot.
Slayers to disband - Page 123
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
I mean, if we were to look at the current esf teams, they mostly have a few if none players leave the team while slayers is just a fuck load of mess now. I would say that tells a lot about the coach and managers, the fact that her own players leave her is just a sign that something is wrong with her. Just my opinion, but if its just one (MMA) then its fine, but now even alicia, crank speaking out against her just tells a lot. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:07 ImNightmare wrote: Jessica going all out on esf, but to be honest, the fact that her own players are leaving and saying things about her just makes her arguments look fishy. I mean, if we were to look at the current esf teams, they mostly have a few if none players leave the team while slayers is just a fuck load of mess now. I would say that tells a lot about the coach and managers, the fact that her own players leave her is just a sign that something is wrong with her. Just my opinion, but if its just one (MMA) then its fine, but now even alicia, crank speaking out against her just tells a lot. What's most troubling is that she admitted that Ryung, her favorite member, lost faith in her as well. Seems like the only person defending Jessica is Genius...who just joined the team barely 3 months? | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:00 sihyunie wrote: "As a result, we started putting in place the practice restrictions from 10 March to 27 March after NASL Season 3 ended. " "All our teams never once mentioned or agreed to isolate Slayers." Am I the only one that thinks these two statements contradict each other considering how much time players spend in practice house (basically 24/7) and the only interaction with other teams is through practices? Partially. From players prospective practice is all they care about. From league / team prospective it's much more, such as inclusion in team league and other business interactions. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:11 neoghaleon55 wrote: What's most troubling is that she admitted that Ryung, her favorite member, lost faith in her as well. Seems like the only person defending Jessica is Genius...who just joined the team barely 3 months? Yeah... that is the main point for me actually. You can paint yourself as a mistress in distress and all that by slamming other teams, but if your own followers don't like you, something is wrong. Edit: Plus the fact that startales has ace defending the coach and top players like MVP/Nestea not leaving IM when they are sure to be poached if they leave IM. I mean, I don't know, but it smells more like a jessica/slayer players problem then a other team killed slayers problem. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:15 floor exercise wrote: Yeah I still don't get how basically everyone who has interacted with her seems to have problems, but it's all them and not her. Yeah, they should speak out about her. Seems like Jessica has the monopoly of information now. Let's wait until we have complete information to know what really is happening | ||
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RainMore
98 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:13 ImNightmare wrote: Yeah... that is the main point for me actually. You can paint yourself as a mistress in distress and all that by slamming other teams, but if your own followers don't like you, something is wrong. I think the main point should be that there was organized bullying (clearly admitted). It's possible that the people on the team felt she didn't do enough to protect them but it sounds like the only way to do that was to fold to all the ESF demands. Personally I think it's disgusting that a bunch of petty 'grownups' felt like such behavior, which was obviously going to affect the kids more than anything else, was okay. She may not be the best manager, she may be bitter or whatever you want to think, but I sure as hell am glad this crap is coming out and I hope there's some major backlash that causes such bullying to never happen again. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:19 RainMore wrote: I think the main point should be that there was organized bullying (clearly admitted). It's possible that the people on the team felt she didn't do enough to protect them but it sounds like the only way to do that was to fold to all the ESF demands. Personally I think it's disgusting that a bunch of petty 'grownups' felt like such behavior, which was obviously going to affect the kids more than anything else, was okay. She may not be the best manager, she may be bitter or whatever you want to think, but I sure as hell am glad this crap is coming out and I hope there's some major backlash that causes such bullying to never happen again. Startale coach did say that there were some problems with their interactions with Jessica. they admitted it AND said it was lifted but jessica, again using some anonymous source, says she was told it was still going on informally when MMA had trained with Genius when he was with MVP which just makes her point look stupid. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:19 RainMore wrote: I think the main point should be that there was organized bullying (clearly admitted). It's possible that the people on the team felt she didn't do enough to protect them but it sounds like the only way to do that was to fold to all the ESF demands. Personally I think it's disgusting that a bunch of petty 'grownups' felt like such behavior, which was obviously going to affect the kids more than anything else, was okay. She may not be the best manager, she may be bitter or whatever you want to think, but I sure as hell am glad this crap is coming out and I hope there's some major backlash that causes such bullying to never happen again. I'm going to repost my only post in this thread just to give people perspective on Asian culture. It seems as if too many people here are coming to conclusions without thinking in a culturally relative manner. This is quite important because while in America we assume it is just up to one person to man up, it could very well be everyone against a single person. And again, I'm not saying that is 100% the case, but as noted above, there was clearly some bullying and everyone seems to be admitting to at least that. Original post: + Show Spoiler + Understanding how Asian culture works, it is very probable that the majority of people dissuade others into believing a singularity is a problem rather than themselves. As a simple example of this, just think of Naniwa when he went to his first pro gamer house. He went and only practiced. He wanted to get as good as he possibly could. This pushed him further away from the very important socially dependent culture Korea has. Thus, when certain times were assigned to go out, Naniwa wasn't even told about them. He literally would be at the house all alone because of no communication, yet to everyone else, it seems as if it was Naniwa's fault for being bad mannered. His intentions were spot on, but culturally he just got shafted hard. (Note: I'm not saying this is "good" or "bad", just that it's how the majority of socially acceptable normalities are dictated in Asian areas.) Because of this, I could very easily see Jessica being completely truthful yet still being unaccounted. The only basis they seem to have against her is that she simply would not cooperate with others outside of slayers because she thought it would be detrimental. Saying others are a detriment to your team could in turn cause issues. With that said, it could be very possible that not everything is "exactly" as it happened as there is obviously underlying bias written in here that will be weeded out. But in contrast to what some may be saying, I think I'll side with Jessica for the majority of the points. For her to be able to professionally withhold this much of the information that came out in this post instead of slandering players, as the community makes her out to do, I can only have respect for her holding it in until now. Will there be some mucky things that may be released as rebuttals against her that have some weight? I assume so, but in the end I think she seems to have done the best she possibly could have with what she was given and yet it all still fell apart. Quite sad for me as I always held SlayerS up to being the ideal team. A top competitor, a legend creator, yet, a family. With that being said, I think you could easily relate actions taken by people, such as Boxer, hand in hand with what Jessica has been saying. I do find it weird that out of the two Jessica is allowing herself to take all the hate for Boxer. Even when Boxer clearly had interactions with the players and was actually helping manage the team. It seems that after Boxer was hurt and stopped attending the team house things got even worse than they were. Where you start drawing the line at whose fault this really is I'll leave up to you. But at the very least I think there is some over arching problems with Manager J and the few players actually buying into what was said; so much so, that it started to affect the team in a major way.  | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
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arcHoniC
United States141 Posts
I wonder if a lot of these players are just immature or.... I dunno I guess a lot of the post is from coaches point of view but it seems quite petty of all parties involved | ||
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Roarer
Hong Kong124 Posts
For Boxer & Jessica, hope the 2 of them gather what could be learnt from this experience and stand up once again as soon as possible. Once calmed down, summarize everything and use it to help pursuing the next goal. I do think Jessica may be too emotional in some issues. Maybe she needs Boxer to be next to her to calm her down. For MMA, it must felt hard to be disappointed by the team that once he loved so much. He might believe in the wrong person (J), but there is no need to spread words that he has no clue if its true or not. This act is really questionable which makes me think there might be more conflict between Jessica and MMA before this thing happened. I like his play, but maybe he can be more mature to truly become a leader for both the team and the fans. That manager J dude, for god sake pls speak his side of story real quick and do not lie! Everything right now points toward him, if he just keep silent, he will be the biggest villain in this case. Hope Cella and all other players will not be stunned by just 1 incident, and keep on pursuing their dreams. Best luck to most of you guys. It seems the ESF is nothing more than a group of people who is capable of making stupid mistakes (which is similar to Kespa except Kespa has more financial back up = =) I do not know how reliable they can be to grow the SC2 scene in S. Korea. It is so sad to know that there is so little honest persons and talk in the scene. Originally, most conflicts are only from external from a team standpoint, but now trust has been lost even within team. On October 18 2012 09:28 Kazeyonoma wrote: Because trusting someone who shows faith in your business and having him not only not do his job but outright lie and backstab the company is totally her fault. Guess every company should never let their employees do meaningful work cuz it might be a huge sabotage scenario. Cmon seriously. Wow. The jessica hate continues so much on TL its ridiculous. On a side note, someone is at fault when he/she has the power to change the flow of events, but then pick the wrong choice. With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility. At the end of the day, it's Boxer's, Jessica's and other players' dream at the stake. Even if Jessica is not at fault in someone's eye, she has to pay for her decision. Jessica failed to find the right person, and someone other than her has to bear the consequences with her. Trusting alone may not be a fault, but risking others' interest at the hands of someone who is not trust-able is a fault. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:24 ImNightmare wrote: Startale coach did say that there were some problems with their interactions with Jessica. they admitted it AND said it was lifted but jessica, again using some anonymous source, says she was told it was still going on informally when MMA had trained with Genius when he was with MVP which just makes her point look stupid. This is pretty normal behavior in other sports though. If you are not a part of a league / association, then you should not expect equal treatment (which is why people join those in the first place). They are formed to protect the interest of its members, not greater good of outsiders. Basically it seems Slayers wanted it both ways: protection from ESF but none of the responsibilities. | ||
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
On October 18 2012 21:25 TeeTS wrote: Ok just for you we take a look at the timeline of this MMA issue, where coach Won mentioned Jessica demanding insane transfer fee's for MMA going to a foreign team and Jessica responding with this "offer" to TL. The issues about MMA wanting to join a foreign team came up several weeks before GSTL season 2 finals. (remember he missed several GSTL matches in season 2 to his demotion to the B-Team.) the GSTL season 2 finals took place on July 28th 2012 -> so the whole MMA may have taken place in late June - July There MMA stated his will to join a foreign team. Nothing happened though and MMA returned to be the starting player for Slayers in the finals. - It's really hard to think that no teams would be interested in a 2time GSL and multiple major foreign tournament champion. So it's way more possible that Slayers denied a switch - by demanding insane transfer fees perhaps?  makes a lot of sense if you think about it!then we know now that Jessica offered MMA for free to Team Liquid (in person of Nazgul) on September 5th 2012. more than a month later! Even in Jessica's version of the story the eSF sanctions ended in June/July 2012. (While it's very doubtful that they lasted that long!). So obviously Coach Won's statement regarding Slayers demanding to high transfer fees has nothing to do with either the offer to TL or the time it was made in! So Jessica's evidence that Coach Won is lying is absolutely nullified by the timelime of events. And so we have NO evidence right now, that coach Won is lying, BUT we have an approach by Jessica to make it look like. Also Jessica seems very much prepared for everything her opposition may try to come up with. !! This wouldn't be the case if she just wanted to substantiate why she disolved Slayers. !! - her fans would believe her anyways and she doesn't need to care about the rest in that regard! So you have to think what's the reason for all this is... Since there is no winner in this whole drama and everyone right now already lost a lot of credibility, everything points towards vengeance. Vengeance against the players that may or may not betrayed her and the "evil" eSF. And everyone involved should be really careful now because this is going to cause MAJOR damage to the whole SC2 construct in Korea. And if this goes out of control it may bring the whole scene to collapse! Why do you even make it look like that Jessica even has to prove that Coach Won is lying? Coach Won is the one who should show evidence to backup what his saying is true... it makes no sense to go the other way. | ||
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zidaneshead
245 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:11 neoghaleon55 wrote: What's most troubling is that she admitted that Ryung, her favorite member, lost faith in her as well. Seems like the only person defending Jessica is Genius...who just joined the team barely 3 months? Is there a translation of what Genius said? | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
I personally wouldn't have known all this if they just disband with a "Boxer have left Slayers to coach SKT" and the key players have all decided to leave Slayers because they originally followed Boxer into Slayers. With so many players left, we have decided to disband SlayerS" A huge drama post is not what Slayers need in the end. SlayerS RIP | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:41 TaKemE wrote: Why do you even make it look like that Jessica even has to prove that Coach Won is lying? Coach Won is the one who should show evidence to backup what his saying is true... it makes no sense to go the other way. you don't get it, do you? She doesn't have to proof anything here, but the fact that she tries to make Coach Wong look like a lyer says a lot! that's all I talked about... | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36960 Posts
SlayerS_Jessica ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gysbQ.jpg) Source: This Is Game First off, we're curious as to why you requested an interview. In the past, I had no intentions of revealing private information regarding SlayerS to the public. I figured if anything was explained incorrectly, it would only lead to misunderstandings and speculations so I didn't want to reveal anything. But I decided it's finally time to reveal everything. And I also really want to just let everything off my chest regarding SlayerS. Too many things occurred all at once so I needed some time to sort everything out. The damage was just too big to forget about and move on. How is the current situation for SlayerS? MMA and Alicia have been demoted to B team but recent events has caused us to release Alicia. (Alicia has yet to comment on this) Ryung currently plays at home, YugiOh was already practicing from home, CranK was released not because of a withdrawl. Puzzle, CoCa, Min were given time to think about their careers and have decided to pursue League of Legends. There was a discussion that a boycott for this season's GSTL my take place. I originally was considering not even attending this seasons' GSTL. I was really concerned since our power roster had gotten cut in half. I even had players on our roster who refused to play for GSTL even though they were on contract. But the rest of the players wanted to go for it so we did. I decided that even though we had no chance of winning the championship, players could still get valuable experience so I went for it with that mindset. Right now, winning or losing is not important. I just want to leave a final impression that SlayerS was a team that got together and headed toward one goal. What is going on with the roster? Aside from three players who are currently looking for other teams, we'll be fielding four B teamers and four A teamers for the GSTL. Alicia refused to participate at all ever since last season's GSTL so we eliminated him entirely from the roster. A lot of fans wish to know why BoxeR went over to SK Telecom T1. In order to completely explain this we need to go back to the time of when SlayerS was formed. So I would have to explain our past. What would you like to start with? I have to start with SlayerS and the SC2 organization. Everything was wrong from the very fist button. SlayerS earned Intel as a sponsor and started off very wealthy. We also had BoxeR. Because of our situation, the organization wanted SlayerS to join them. However, the whole scenery still had yet to be figured out so we decided to just kind of stand by and observe the whole thing before deciding. And then the GanZi incident occurred. (From here on out, everything else was already translated and explained in this thread so I just translated the parts I had yet to see translated in here) Players without any contracts have no clause that is forcing them to stay. What happens to the five players with contracts? SlayerS definitely did not try to force players who had no contracts to stay. And even players with contracts still got sent to the team they wanted to go to if they really wanted to leave. I guess those contracted players will just leave for whatever team they want to join if they want to right? GanZi also signed a contract with us but he wanted to leave so we let him. I hope the players will be able to leave leave thing professionally and not cause anymore reasons for people to lose faith in each other. Contracts will be terminated on November. That is correct. If there are any issues with the contract and also promises in that contract that I wasn't able to keep, I'm sure the players would have left with harbored resentments but we've kept all our words from the contracts and we didn't take a dime from the players. We even took BoxeR's money and distributed it along the players and took care of the team that way. As far as I know, Alicia has already found another overseas team that he is going to join but I can't confirm this since he hasn't made any statements about that himself yet. I just hope he doesn't replicate his actions when he does end up joining another team. Without stable sponsors, operations within a team cannot continue. In order for a team to remain intact, a team needs sponsors. Although even without sponsors, I could still get by on what I've been doing so far through investments. We had a really great opportunity because of a great offer but a certain player ruined that for us. This is also something I just recently found out but apparently there is this rumor that I took money from our players and ran the team through that. Who the heck spread this rumor? Everyone on SlayerS already knows that we got by because of BoxeR's own personal funds but the fact that an insider is spreading this kind of rumor maybe makes people this that his information is credible. These are just my thoughts but I think perhaps this person spread this rumor so he could find a way out of SlayerS. Honestly in the past, KeSPA teams would gather a certain amount of money every month and operate like an amateur team. Later on, they discontinued this process and forbid teams from taking money from the players but I think some teams still kind of did this on the side. But now that we are all operating through sponsors, I don't think this is the case anymore. However, you still need sponsors to raise a team. Our situation is almost as if we did a head butt on solid ground. We already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on operating expenses. We didn't do this for revenue purposes but since we wanted a successful team with everyone working together, it was just such a shame that this had to happen. So why did you continue to operate the team? We still had players. It's true that our recent results have been rather poor. But we still had loyal fans who continuously cheered on SlayerS so disbanding the team was not some easy decision we could just make. How much longer do you plan on being with SlayerS? I'm not sure. It could even get to a point where we can't even field enough players for the GSTL... I can't predict what will happen in the future. Everything is changing so I can't know for sure. SlayerS has even been called an academy. Even from my perspective I think that's ridiculous. But in the beginning, the goal was to create the ultimate team led by BoxeR. But we no longer have BoxeR so our players need to trust in me and I had to lead them like a parent. I just hope the players don't lose faith in me. There are a lot of misunderstandings regarding player transfers to and from SlayerS. When GanZi, TaeJa, Golden, and Sleep left the team, we had no problems. TaeJa personally stated that he wanted to leave so we let him. He didn't necessarily want to join a foreign team, he just wanted to join a different team. That's when the Team Liquid offer came. I am so happy and filled with joy whenever I see him do well. (the rest of this was already translated in the previously linked thread) Anything else you would like to say? The reason I am revealing everything is because I didn't want there to be any lingering misunderstandings or speculations. Everything I am saying I heard from the respective parties. I'm not sure what kind of response I will receive when they read this interview. I mean they might reveal... something they never told me initially... or they might spew up more false information so I'm just going to have to stand by and watch what happens. Regardless of whose decision it was, bullying is something that should never occur again. There was even a ESF player who called Sleep "SlayerS trash" through a chat. I really think the ESF organization needs to realize what kind of consequence their actions can have and what kind of influence they're presenting to kids by implementing bullying. I could also have just stayed silent about everything. I debated this for a long time. ESF have stated that I am not capable of being a partner. So because were considered outsiders, that's why they treated us like this? While I do agree that there needs to be power in an organization in order for an organization to keep progressing forward, that organization needs to get their basic mindset in order first and stop relaying just power. If eSports really wants to progress forward, instead of restrictions, we need to liberate our players more and prepare more stable environments for them. But we only look like this on the outside, because in reality, we seem as if we only care about being able to feed ourselves so unless I become a more reliable manager for the future, I don't think I have any room in the ESF world. I wanted to reveal all this so I could shut up all the speculations going around about why BoxeR left SlayerS for T1. This is the answer to all the questions the fans have been asking and the reason why SlayerS refused to cooperate with the ESF organization. I want it to be clear that we are not doing this because we hold a grudge. Teams that disband eventually get forgotten about anyways but the players themselves need to be able to go on on a positive note. I wanted to get rid of all the misunderstandings and get rid of any lasting rumors. I also kept my mouth shut for a while even though the fans were dying to know. There's a chance that this whole situation could turn in to a real ugly battle but I haven't stated any lies. But if there are still any truths out there that haven't been revealed, I am hoping that the respective parties will come out and finally reveal everything. This is the conclusion to the interview with Jessica. Jessica still had remaining players and a lot of loyal fans who stayed true to SlayerS so she tried very hard to keep SlayerS running. But recent events made her conclude that it was just no longer possible to keep SlayerS intact. Lastly, Jessica stated that "I have no idea how the ESF organization will respond to this but if they still remain silent and refuse to apologize or speak about the matter, I will reveal all the evidence I hold through my documents to This Is Game." Now this next one from This Is Game: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/74EKO.jpg) Source: This Is Game SlayerS_Jessica has requested an official apology from the ESF organization. Key things from this article:
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tylerf
739 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:47 SeeKeR wrote: She stated that "the current situation has devolved in to a dirty fight. I am disappointed that it has turned out like this. I really would wish the ESF organization would just admit to the mistakes they made against us and make a formal apology. If we look at all the things that the ESF organization members have responded with so far, it is clear that they are just blaming others and creating excuses rather than just apologizing. If this situation continues on, a lot of players could potentially end up getting hurt. So she's willing to drag the players down with her in this administrative dispute. :/ | ||
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