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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37043 Posts
On October 19 2012 00:11 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:03 geokilla wrote:On October 18 2012 23:52 tylerf wrote:On October 18 2012 23:47 SeeKeR wrote:
She stated that "the current situation has devolved in to a dirty fight. I am disappointed that it has turned out like this. I really would wish the ESF organization would just admit to the mistakes they made against us and make a formal apology. If we look at all the things that the ESF organization members have responded with so far, it is clear that they are just blaming others and creating excuses rather than just apologizing. If this situation continues on, a lot of players could potentially end up getting hurt.
So she's willing to drag the players down with her in this administrative dispute. :/ Pretty much... I pretty much said this yesterday. It's a game of he said she said and right now, Jessica is saying things that will hurt not only her image, but the player's image as well. I'll be very surprised if any other teams wants to pick up any of soon to be ex-SlayerS players. At least in the near future. Jessica was able to provide proof against any attack (Alicia, "MMA so expensive"). And if the SlayerS players fucked up (like Alicia) I think it's important that it goes public - even if that means that player's image will be damaged. It's his own fault when he fucked up, he has to live with the consequences of his actions. Bit other topic: From Seeker's translation an interesting part: "Because of our siuation, KeSPA wanted SlayerS to join them."
Bah. Fixed.
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On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot.
You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams...
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On October 19 2012 00:13 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. Whine about being treated differently? Is refusing to join esf grounds for bullying and practice embargos? This is almost like extortion, join us, obey us, or we will hit you where it hurts.
It's a federation of sports teams though. It's same thing in any sports. If you are not in the NHL, you don't get to practice with NHL teams. If you are not in the La Liga, you can't schedule show match with Barcelona without league approval. The situation with SC2 is more unique but it's not like it's an uncommon practice.
On October 19 2012 00:13 Woizit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. It is also true that they claimed they did not want to be like Kespa, yet they ended with this.
They are different from KeSPA in that they support different teams / leagues from KeSPA. It has absolutely nothing to do with "greater good" or whatever ideology you expect them to hold. There are only two types of business: dirty ones, and dead ones.
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On October 19 2012 00:19 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot. You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams...
You might also want to consider this.
"After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun"
ESF never managed to successfully negotiate an alternative for Slayers.
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On October 19 2012 00:18 SeeKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:11 Zocat wrote:On October 19 2012 00:03 geokilla wrote:On October 18 2012 23:52 tylerf wrote:On October 18 2012 23:47 SeeKeR wrote:
She stated that "the current situation has devolved in to a dirty fight. I am disappointed that it has turned out like this. I really would wish the ESF organization would just admit to the mistakes they made against us and make a formal apology. If we look at all the things that the ESF organization members have responded with so far, it is clear that they are just blaming others and creating excuses rather than just apologizing. If this situation continues on, a lot of players could potentially end up getting hurt.
So she's willing to drag the players down with her in this administrative dispute. :/ Pretty much... I pretty much said this yesterday. It's a game of he said she said and right now, Jessica is saying things that will hurt not only her image, but the player's image as well. I'll be very surprised if any other teams wants to pick up any of soon to be ex-SlayerS players. At least in the near future. Jessica was able to provide proof against any attack (Alicia, "MMA so expensive"). And if the SlayerS players fucked up (like Alicia) I think it's important that it goes public - even if that means that player's image will be damaged. It's his own fault when he fucked up, he has to live with the consequences of his actions. Bit other topic: From Seeker's translation an interesting part: "Because of our siuation, KeSPA wanted SlayerS to join them." Bah. Fixed.
Oh - sorry :D
Didnt actually think that was a translation error but a new twist to the story.
On October 19 2012 00:21 Woizit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:19 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot. You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams... You might also want to consider this. "After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun" ESF never managed to successfully negotiate an alternative for Slayers.
To add more:
"Mr. Won promised that S2con and GomTV would take care of it and get what was needed, and we did not participate in NASL Season 2. However, nothing was gained. I asked Mr. Won whether they tried to talk to NASL at all, to show me the e-mails that went back and forth, but he there wasn't anything of the sort."
Mr. Won wasnt even able to show SlayerS that they did try to negotiate.
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And here I thought ESF was the good guy, while looking at Kespa as somewhat of the bad guy.... guess I was wrong.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37043 Posts
On October 19 2012 00:22 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:18 SeeKeR wrote:On October 19 2012 00:11 Zocat wrote:On October 19 2012 00:03 geokilla wrote:On October 18 2012 23:52 tylerf wrote:On October 18 2012 23:47 SeeKeR wrote:
She stated that "the current situation has devolved in to a dirty fight. I am disappointed that it has turned out like this. I really would wish the ESF organization would just admit to the mistakes they made against us and make a formal apology. If we look at all the things that the ESF organization members have responded with so far, it is clear that they are just blaming others and creating excuses rather than just apologizing. If this situation continues on, a lot of players could potentially end up getting hurt.
So she's willing to drag the players down with her in this administrative dispute. :/ Pretty much... I pretty much said this yesterday. It's a game of he said she said and right now, Jessica is saying things that will hurt not only her image, but the player's image as well. I'll be very surprised if any other teams wants to pick up any of soon to be ex-SlayerS players. At least in the near future. Jessica was able to provide proof against any attack (Alicia, "MMA so expensive"). And if the SlayerS players fucked up (like Alicia) I think it's important that it goes public - even if that means that player's image will be damaged. It's his own fault when he fucked up, he has to live with the consequences of his actions. Bit other topic: From Seeker's translation an interesting part: "Because of our siuation, KeSPA wanted SlayerS to join them." Bah. Fixed. Oh - sorry :D Didnt actually think that was a translation error but a new twist to the story.
To be honest. I don't know myself. 협의 = KeSPA. It's always been like this. But someone from my other thread told me to change KeSPA to organization so I was like "meh, whatever."
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On October 19 2012 00:21 Woizit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:19 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot. You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams... You might also want to consider this. "After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun" ESF never managed to successfully negotiate an alternative for Slayers.
Yeah, so everything should remain as it was, which in that case would be no participation. But Slayers had the oppinion that they would benefit more if they participated. But they never communicated that towards the other teams in a proper manner, they only looked at themselves. I my oppinion that behavior has to be called selfish.
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On October 19 2012 00:22 Vandeam wrote:
And here I thought ESF was the good guy, while looking at Kespa as somewhat of the bad guy.... guess I was wrong.
Why are people always so surprised when companies/organizations are willing to use their power to enforce what they want?
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If slasher is saying the truth, then Jessica is just trying to white knight herself and is bullshitting about the MMA issue.
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On October 19 2012 00:24 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:21 Woizit wrote:On October 19 2012 00:19 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot. You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams... You might also want to consider this. "After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun" ESF never managed to successfully negotiate an alternative for Slayers. Yeah, so everything should remain as it was, which in that case would be no participation. But Slayers had the oppinion that they would benefit more if they participated. But they never communicated that towards the other teams in a proper manner, they only looked at themselves. I my oppinion that behavior has to be called selfish.
I don't follow this logic at all. Slayers wanted to participate, esf did not. Where does it say that slayers can't participate if no agreement is reached? IF an agreement had been reached to not participate and slayers had broken that agreement, you would have a case. In this case where no agreement was reached, nobody has any right to enforce slayers whether they participate or not let alone punish them with sanctions.
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People need to learn to read.
Coach Won is saying that "Jessica wanted high transfer fees for her players, inc MMA", therefore "she is lying about never getting paid for a player transfer". What happened is, Jessica wanted a transfer fee for MMA but no one wanted to bid on it, so eventually she offered a free transfer for him. As far as I understand, nowhere did Jessica say that she never ever attempted to make a transfer 'sale', just that she didn't actually complete one and eventually allowed the players to transfer for free. I don't see how is she a liar or in the wrong in this situation?
Don't get me wrong, I think Jessica could have handled the disbanding better, and I don't think she is a very good negotiator - a lot of the issues Slayers had faced probably could have been alleviated if she was more adept at this kind of politics... but I'm pretty much 100% certain that the blame lies on people who tried to strong-arm Slayers into accepting eSF very selfish decisions and forcing Slayers to become a part of a 'union' that Boxer wanted to avoid from the get-go. It's very obvious that eSF is not a "players union only wishing the best for the players and the scene", rather a bunch of people in power who want to ensure they keep the said power, as it always is.
Also the claims about Jessica being a bad players' manager and stuff about Alicia being 'mistreated' etc is so ridiculous I don't even know how can anyone believe it. Pretty much everyone uniformly agreed that for the longest time ever, Slayers had the strongest practice regimens but also the most close ties between its players and coaches, and an amazing atmosphere; it's very much possible that changed with Boxer semi-retiring and all the bullshit with J, eSF's refusal to practice etc went down, but Slayers was pretty much THE team to be in for a very long time, and that can't be attributed to MMA's talent and Boxer's name only.
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Lol @ responses. But seriously, what sources.
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On October 19 2012 00:34 geokilla wrote:Lol @ responses. But seriously, what sources.
rofl adebisi "your girlfriend reading the forums on thisisgame doesn't count as sources man. "
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On October 19 2012 00:34 Salazarz wrote:
People need to learn to read.
Coach Won is saying that "Jessica wanted high transfer fees for her players, inc MMA", therefore "she is lying about never getting paid for a player transfer". What happened is, Jessica wanted a transfer fee for MMA but no one wanted to bid on it, so eventually she offered a free transfer for him. As far as I understand, nowhere did Jessica say that she never ever attempted to make a transfer 'sale', just that she didn't actually complete one and eventually allowed the players to transfer for free. I don't see how is she a liar or in the wrong in this situation?
Technically it's true, but you can't deny Jessica tried to appear as if she have no interest in transfer fee. I really don't know what's the deal with transfer fee, as it is part of the business. Her antics is making the whole situation much more complicated than it already was though/
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On October 19 2012 00:34 geokilla wrote:Lol @ responses. But seriously, what sources.
Mike @AdebisiSC
@Slasher @ApolloSC2 your girlfriend reading the forums on thisisgame doesn't count as sources man.
This response made me laugh.
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On October 19 2012 00:30 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:24 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 00:21 Woizit wrote:On October 19 2012 00:19 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."
This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules? I guess they are just trying to make another kespa.... It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities. That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot. You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams... You might also want to consider this. "After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun" ESF never managed to successfully negotiate an alternative for Slayers. Yeah, so everything should remain as it was, which in that case would be no participation. But Slayers had the oppinion that they would benefit more if they participated. But they never communicated that towards the other teams in a proper manner, they only looked at themselves. I my oppinion that behavior has to be called selfish. I don't follow this logic at all. Slayers wanted to participate, esf did not. Where does it say that slayers can't participate if no agreement is reached? IF an agreement had been reached to not participate and slayers had broken that agreement, you would have a case. In this case where no agreement was reached, nobody has any right to enforce slayers whether they participate or not let alone punish them with sanctions.
I disagree with your last sentence. ESF has all the rights to enforce a practice ban on SlayerS if they want.
Is it nice, fair, whatever? imho, no. But they have all the rights.
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boss,apollo and adebisi responding to slashers tweet was hilarious
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Considering esf's general attitude during the whole kespa situation, I'm actually inclined to believe jessica despite her obvious emotionally-charged comments.
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EPT
