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On October 13 2012 10:13 drbrown wrote:
Man this is annoying to know, one LoL tournament gets fucked up by lack of LAN and Riot is right on it.
Several SC2 series/tournaments including a certain GSTL finals have been ruined by lack of LAN and Blizzard keeps ignoring it.
SC2 has never had an issue anywhere near as bad as what just happened. Anyone who was actually watching the lol tournament will know this.
They had to restart THREE times and finally gave up before deciding to reschedule the match. Nothing to this extent has ever and will ever happen due to SC2 due to disconnects. Especially with the new resume from replay feature.
People comparing the 2 situations clearly have no idea what actually happened.
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SC2 will never see LAN while it operates a non-F2P model.
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LoL are taking the necessary steps to become a monstrous esport. SC2 is fairly stagnant atm imo
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On October 13 2012 19:24 AzureHath wrote:
SC2 will never see LAN while it operates a non-F2P model.
False. SC2 can have a a LAN tournament server just fine without being F2P. There are lots of ways to support a LAN server at a tournament while still requiring people to login with battle.net accounts, or with security options in the LAN server to only operate if blizzard allows it.
The problem I can see is, it's not really good PR for Blizzard to say: "our battle.net service is not good enough for pros to play on". I think that might be some of the problems with explaining blizzard execs why it is a good idea. Throwing money after stuff which wont benefit the people who pays for the game.
Remember the LoL "lan" is just a tournament server. With the speed it was brougt out, they either had the code ready or made a quick 'n dirty hack where the "lan" client think they are on the global network but in reality the server they login too are on a LAN.
They might have the first options, as IEM said Riot installed some kind of lan server for them (not sure). But then why weren't they using it? The second option I think is much more likely after the humiliation last weekend...
And for those who says the GSTL finals was ruined by not having LAN, LAN wouldn't have helped any bit for it...
In reality the game resume feature blizzard is releasing soon will properly help on most LAN complains resulting from crashed games (if it works according to plan). A lan client will only help on the "lag" part of online play with it and from tournament internet completly crashing.
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Riot is more willing to pander to fans regardless of the long term implication on the game. Because LoL is more of a fad than a sustainable esport, but that's just my opinion.
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Obviously there are decent arguments for both sides. Now I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread, but I thought it was to be able to strongarm KeSPA for licencing rights, etc?
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YES another sc2 lan discussion! this hasn't been discussed enough yet!
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I wish Blizzard would sell the rights of Starcraft to Valve
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On October 13 2012 08:13 Narfinger wrote:
Easy. Just ask Kespa. Did you already forgot what they did try a few weeks ago?
Or to be precise: Lan just for tournaments kills competition because the players can't train with the same latency. Lan for everyone, says hello to Kespa.
Are you telling me you perform worse when you practice on say, the NA server with 200-300ms, then go to compete in a LAN tournament with ~0ms delay? I don't think thats possible. How would you get WORSE from having a lower latency? You go into single player, and suddenly it feels so good cause theres no lag. Imagine having that for multi-player, albeit only having single-player latency for tournament games. You should be better, right? If that analogy didn't work, this one might. Imagine playing on the Korean server and the North American one (assume you are living in America). There is 500ms delay on the Korean server, and 200ms delay on the North American one. Assuming you practice mostly on the Korean one, there would be no reason you would perform worse on the North American one cause there is less lag, and this analogy I would imagine would make sense and relate to people who have cross-server accounts.
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On October 13 2012 18:30 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 10:13 drbrown wrote:
Man this is annoying to know, one LoL tournament gets fucked up by lack of LAN and Riot is right on it.
Several SC2 series/tournaments including a certain GSTL finals have been ruined by lack of LAN and Blizzard keeps ignoring it. SC2 has never had an issue anywhere near as bad as what just happened. Anyone who was actually watching the lol tournament will know this. They had to restart THREE times and finally gave up before deciding to reschedule the match. Nothing to this extent has ever and will ever happen due to SC2 due to disconnects. Especially with the new resume from replay feature. People comparing the 2 situations clearly have no idea what actually happened.
Sounds like the first MLG season's finals, wasn't there something like 6 hours of delays? Though that may have been a venue thing.
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On October 13 2012 13:14 dragonblade369 wrote:
Will pro have access to LAN mode without playing in a tournament? They need to get used to LAN latency in order to play well at tournament. Otherwise, it's better not to have LAN
You can set it up so it will have pre-fixed latency even on LAN, it's not that difficult.
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On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote:
Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible.
starfriend does 2 years now
On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote:
People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money.
this is the real reason
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I wish Blizzard would sell the rights of Starcraft to Valve
And Valve will turn it into crap like CSGO DotA 2 ? well played
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On October 13 2012 21:14 MyNameIsAlex wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote:
Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible. starfriend does 2 years now Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote:
People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money. this is the real reason
If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them...
Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it.
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It's probably gonna come a little after LoV.
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On October 13 2012 21:25 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 21:14 MyNameIsAlex wrote:On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote:
Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible. starfriend does 2 years now On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote:
People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money. this is the real reason If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them... Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it.
how can they control a tournament server if its setup in your house/net cafe?
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SC2 will never get LAN, just like it will never get clan tags and shared replay watching.
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But... Are they really going to make the players play on LAN after they have practiced with latency for three years?
Edit: Read above, I guess they might be forcing some latency.
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LAN aint an option as SC BW had it and Blizzard wants to make new stuff and not just use old for example Battle Hellion or should I say Hellbat after last HotS update.
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On October 13 2012 21:28 MyNameIsAlex wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 21:25 windzor wrote:On October 13 2012 21:14 MyNameIsAlex wrote:On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote:
Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible. starfriend does 2 years now On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote:
People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money. this is the real reason If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them... Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it. how can they control a tournament server if its setup in your house/net cafe?
Blizzard don't give a crap about tournaments you can run from your house as it is. Internet cafes they can simply threaten with legal action and most will budge.
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EPT
