isn't lol ftp? The whole "we dont want people to pirate our game" thing doesn't apply. Not that I think blizzard is necessarily on the right side of that, but it's really a whole different question.
Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
Man.. you need to think before you complain. Free to play vs pay to play. Blizzard does not want people to play their game for free and unfortunately this is one effective way to stop it. They are putting in new functions for tournaments as it is but I very much doubt you will ever see Lan for SC2.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
To be fair, this is a community site which lives in great deal around the game, so it seems ok to discuss it.
Recently, I played a game in off-line mode when the server was down, and I noticed that the response time was really good. I have NA and EU accounts, as of recent I've been getting more delay playing on EU (1-2 sec) and never thought much of it on NA, until I played the off-line mode. The simplest way to see it is when setting rally from your main base to the minerals. Changing that rally between minerals in off-line mode is instant, on NA it's tiny and EU I can click on 2-3 different mineral patches before the rally change shows.
The point I'm trying to make is that micro can be better and more impressive if LAN was made possible if there is such a noticeable difference between LAN and playing on your native server. I have 20dl/5ul and a rather good PC I made myself, but I would welcome anyone to try out a similar test and let me know their results.
Easy. Just ask Kespa. Did you already forgot what they did try a few weeks ago?
Or to be precise: Lan just for tournaments kills competition because the players can't train with the same latency. Lan for everyone, says hello to Kespa.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
Why is LoL having an implemented LAN relevant? Blizzard exhausted time and time again that the debate of whether SC2 will ever have LAN has been closed a long time ago.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
(it was Sarcasm if you couldn't tell -_-)
not like complaining at either place would do anything at this point.
There we go guys, all we need to do is make a RO8 match at the WCS finals break, repeat at least 5 times, reach no conclusion and have to scrap everything and change the date to get lan.
Dude you want to play HOTS in 2014 or maybe 2015? Come on dont put pressure on the guy who is unable to even make a simple name change function available for the past 2 years. Their dedicated coding team must only have 1 person and balance team -- 2, art and marketing team -- thousands or maybe more.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
Kennigit had the chance, but he fucked it up, should have pushed harder! lol
the reasoning for LoL to not have LAN until now was strictly to prevent private servers from forming, which is effectively the same as what would be feared in sc2 right?
On October 13 2012 08:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
WTF piracy is not the biggest reason and I doubt it is a reason at all. Control is the reason SC2 doesn't have lan. If it did have lan tournaments would have no incentive to pay blizzard for the use of their game. As it stands if a tournament is unsanctioned by blizzard, blizzard has the ability to stop players from accessing bnet and therefore stopping the tournament. So in order for GOM/KESPA/MLG to run SC2 tournaments they have to pay blizzard and if payments ever stop while then blizzard can pull the plug on the tournament. As for all the people who say sell tournament editions with LAN that doesn't solve the problem because after and organization gets lan then blizzard has no control again.
On October 13 2012 08:10 Fionn wrote: If SC2 was free-to-play, it would have LAN.
It's not, so it doesn't have it.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. If SC2 got LAN, Blizzard would lose too much money from people who pirate it and play LAN, or use programs that emulate a LAN environment, such as Garena, to play on private servers.
@OP: Did you see the massive shitfest that was the Season 2 League of Legends World Series? One quarter-finals game (between CLG.eu and World Elite) had to be replayed like 3 times until eventually they gave up and had to postpone the match for another day.
That? That's inexcusable.
SC2 has had some hiccups, but overall the lack of LAN hasn't been catastrophic for tournament and league experience.
A special tournament version of StarCraft 2 with LAN wouldn't work. Players would be used to playing with latency in all their practise so adjusting to LAN would make them play worse.
Blizzard should just give us LAN. Of course they won't because, as consumers, we have no bargaining chips besides a boycott and the only people who would care enough about LAN to boycott their product also care about their product too much to boycott it. It's sad, but you can understand their reasoning.
On October 13 2012 08:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
WTF piracy is not the biggest reason and I doubt it is a reason at all. Control is the reason SC2 doesn't have lan. If it did have lan tournaments would have no incentive to pay blizzard for the use of their game. As it stands if a tournament is unsanctioned by blizzard, blizzard has the ability to stop players from accessing bnet and therefore stopping the tournament. So in order for GOM/KESPA/MLG to run SC2 tournaments they have to pay blizzard and if payments ever stop while then blizzard can pull the plug on the tournament. As for all the people who say sell tournament editions with LAN that doesn't solve the problem because after and organization gets lan then blizzard has no control again.
Blizzard don't seem to care about their community. That's just how i feel about this and a lot of other decisions that they have made in the past year or so. I don't think we will be seeing LAN anytime soon unfortunately.
On October 13 2012 08:10 Fionn wrote: If SC2 was free-to-play, it would have LAN.
It's not, so it doesn't have it.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. If SC2 got LAN, Blizzard would lose too much money from people who pirate it and play LAN, or use programs that emulate a LAN environment, such as Garena, to play on private servers.
you can already emulate bnet, that was discovered like 18 months ago by chinese hackers. the only people losing out are the paying fans who arent even begging for lan for themselves. they just want major leagues to get a lan client.
and this is what lol is getting, a tourney client.
there is no reasonable reason blizzard hasnt done this, except the same reason blizzard leaves everything out of their games, because they can sell it as a feature in an expansion. so ill repeat what i said last time. feature of legacy of the void.
Well because mister destructible Bricks says the technology doesn't exist. The argument on page one with Blizzard controlling the tournament landscape is valid I think.
I guess we have to wait some more years, atleast until LotV
On October 13 2012 08:11 mrtomjones wrote: Man.. you need to think before you complain. Free to play vs pay to play. Blizzard does not want people to play their game for free and unfortunately this is one effective way to stop it. They are putting in new functions for tournaments as it is but I very much doubt you will ever see Lan for SC2.
Counter-argument. Riot is not a charity, they rely on their unlock system to make money. As with all F2P games, this involves accounts being stored on the server to ensure that people do not get free shit. A LAN client opens up the door to hacking the game and allowing all champs and skins to be unlocked. This is equivalent to SC2 "piracy" that would result from LAN. Let's just ignore the fact that wringing your hands over piracy for a game that's 2 years old is just idiotic.
Second point, this is not the real reason that SC2 doesn't have LAN, it's due to KESPAs previous bullshit. The use of a LAN client for tournaments would have to be authorized and monitored. If KESPA got ahold of it there's the potential to open pandora's box and cut off Blizzards influence in Korea once again, though you would think Blizzard has put MORE than enough legal protections in place to prevent that from happening now.
One way or the other Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. A F2P entirely online game is about to beat them in the "technology" race and clearly demonstrating that they care about the player experience and tournament legitimacy.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
(it was Sarcasm if you couldn't tell -_-)
not like complaining at either place would do anything at this point.
On October 13 2012 08:11 mrtomjones wrote: Man.. you need to think before you complain. Free to play vs pay to play. Blizzard does not want people to play their game for free and unfortunately this is one effective way to stop it. They are putting in new functions for tournaments as it is but I very much doubt you will ever see Lan for SC2.
Counter-argument. Riot is not a charity, they rely on their unlock system to make money. As with all F2P games, this involves accounts being stored on the server to ensure that people do not get free shit. A LAN client opens up the door to hacking the game and allowing all champs and skins to be unlocked. This is equivalent to SC2 "piracy" that would result from LAN. Let's just ignore the fact that wringing your hands over piracy for a game that's 2 years old is just idiotic.
Second point, this is not the real reason that SC2 doesn't have LAN, it's due to KESPAs previous bullshit. The use of a LAN client for tournaments would have to be authorized and monitored. If KESPA got ahold of it there's the potential to open pandora's box and cut off Blizzards influence in Korea once again, though you would think Blizzard has put MORE than enough legal protections in place to prevent that from happening now.
One way or the other Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. A F2P entirely online game is about to beat them in the "technology" race and clearly demonstrating that they care about the player experience and tournament legitimacy.
I thought Blizzard actually stated themselves that the reason was mostly due to piracy. In fact just look at Diablo 3 as a prime example of Blizzard's direction of consistently trying to force players to stay online to the point of actually stripping away any form of offline play.
On October 13 2012 08:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
No one is gonna pirate sc2 to play versus the Ai or have their friends bring their entire set ups over.
On October 13 2012 08:59 Silencioseu wrote: I think blizzard's concern is that if SC2 gets LAN it will be easily pirated.
You can already pirate sc2,you just can't play on Bnet. Adding LAN will do nothing other then Blizzard will no longer look stupid as fuck every time there is a dc in a tournament.
Some of you guys have really short memories. With no LAN, Blizzard essentially holds the nuclear option in any eSF/KeSPA debacle that can (and most likely will) arise in the future. Competition encourages healthy growth of esports, and if there was a LAN mode in the game KeSPA could essentially give the middle finger to eSF and Blizzard and pull all their players out of every foreign tournament and the GSL.
Blizzard more than likely WAS going to step into the GSL Season 4 / Season 5 issue, but eSF took it upon itself to pull its players out of the OSL.
This all isn't to say places like MLG, IPL, GSL, etc should not have a LAN client, but I'm sure Blizzard is terrified it could basically be "cracked" by tournament employees and thus the nuclear option is lost.
riot dont make money on each account the way blizzard does thats why blizzard doesn't give sc2 lan and probably never will. get over it move on or ask blizzard to make battle.net less shit for tournaments.
On October 13 2012 08:59 Silencioseu wrote: I think blizzard's concern is that if SC2 gets LAN it will be easily pirated.
You can already pirate sc2,you just can't play on Bnet. Adding LAN will do nothing other then Blizzard will no longer look stupid as fuck every time there is a dc in a tournament.
You don't need to pirate SC2 to play it for free. SC2 is free for singleplayer mode. The only thing that keeps it afloat is multiplayer.
On October 13 2012 09:11 NeutraLiTe wrote: Some of you guys have really short memories. With no LAN, Blizzard essentially holds the nuclear option in any eSF/KeSPA debacle that can (and most likely will) arise in the future. Competition encourages healthy growth of esports, and if there was a LAN mode in the game KeSPA could essentially give the middle finger to eSF and Blizzard and pull all their players out of every foreign tournament and the GSL.
Blizzard more than likely WAS going to step into the GSL Season 4 / Season 5 issue, but eSF took it upon itself to pull its players out of the OSL.
This all isn't to say places like MLG, IPL, GSL, etc should not have a LAN client, but I'm sure Blizzard is terrified it could basically be "cracked" by tournament employees and thus the nuclear option is lost.
I don't think you understand what competition actually is.
On October 13 2012 09:17 Talack wrote: Riot and blizzards commitment to seeing their game grow as an esport is a night and day difference, you can't really compare the two.
Riot does almost everything and anything possible. Blizzard tells us to go fuck ourselves and likes to talk about how great everyone is doing.
-From a blizzard fanboy
The question is not what they do. Is what we are going to do. Comments like this only promotes mutual wound licking.
I don't think that privacy is the real concern here. But with lan, Blizzard would lose any control over tournaments. Tournaments are of course the heart of esports and esports is where the hardcore gamers are and hardcore gamers keep a lot of others interested in the game.
Piracy is a very minor concern in regards to LAN, but it's the one they are most public about because saying "we don't want KeSPA (or anyone else) to ruin the international scene and make us lose money" wouldn't be as well received by the media.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You don't think putting a complaint on the largest SC2 site is going to make Blizzard notice? huh...
And I saw the reply to Nony's post... back peddle back peddle pack peddle...
don't implement LAN. this would disconnect the PLAYERS from the PROFESSIONALS. sometimes, its just easier to communicate without LAN. and i like random PMs on streams by random players to PRO players.
it's hilarious. LAN would not only remove, but destroy this concept.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You don't think putting a complaint on the largest SC2 site is going to make Blizzard notice? huh...
And I saw the reply to Nony's post... back peddle back peddle pack peddle...
just like the 102948012984012984 or whatever other threads back in the day about LAN in teamliquid+bnet about it made blizzard notice it right? (ok if they did, then they still haven't done anything about it)
On October 13 2012 09:49 MicroTastiC wrote: don't implement LAN. this would disconnect the PLAYERS from the PROFESSIONALS. sometimes, its just easier to communicate without LAN. and i like random PMs on streams by random players to PRO players.
it's hilarious. LAN would not only remove, but destroy this concept.
On October 13 2012 08:11 mrtomjones wrote: Man.. you need to think before you complain. Free to play vs pay to play. Blizzard does not want people to play their game for free and unfortunately this is one effective way to stop it. They are putting in new functions for tournaments as it is but I very much doubt you will ever see Lan for SC2.
Counter-argument. Riot is not a charity, they rely on their unlock system to make money. As with all F2P games, this involves accounts being stored on the server to ensure that people do not get free shit. A LAN client opens up the door to hacking the game and allowing all champs and skins to be unlocked. This is equivalent to SC2 "piracy" that would result from LAN. Let's just ignore the fact that wringing your hands over piracy for a game that's 2 years old is just idiotic.
Second point, this is not the real reason that SC2 doesn't have LAN, it's due to KESPAs previous bullshit. The use of a LAN client for tournaments would have to be authorized and monitored. If KESPA got ahold of it there's the potential to open pandora's box and cut off Blizzards influence in Korea once again, though you would think Blizzard has put MORE than enough legal protections in place to prevent that from happening now.
One way or the other Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. A F2P entirely online game is about to beat them in the "technology" race and clearly demonstrating that they care about the player experience and tournament legitimacy.
I thought Blizzard actually stated themselves that the reason was mostly due to piracy. In fact just look at Diablo 3 as a prime example of Blizzard's direction of consistently trying to force players to stay online to the point of actually stripping away any form of offline play.
A company... Stating falsehoods? To make themselves look better and not the real reason that lost them big money in Korea?
Never happens.
"I thought Blizzard actually stated themselves that the reason was mostly due to piracy"... That's like going "well your honor, the defendant said it himself didn't he? Shouldn't that be all we require!"
On October 13 2012 09:49 MicroTastiC wrote: don't implement LAN. this would disconnect the PLAYERS from the PROFESSIONALS. sometimes, its just easier to communicate without LAN. and i like random PMs on streams by random players to PRO players.
it's hilarious. LAN would not only remove, but destroy this concept.
tl;dr: FUCK LAN
Hahaha, what the fuck is this
Nevermind, this guys logic is more astounding then the previous.
Not surprised after their recent failures. Remember that this is only "tournament lan", which even valve had for TI2. Its basically to ensure no disconnects in huge tournaments. The core game will still be online (how can it not be? Considering they make all their money off people buying stuff)
edit: Its retarded at best that sc2 doesn't have this. Anyone who knows how this works would know that theres no way to pirate anything from a lan box. Besides, the singleplayer was cracked right after release anyways, so theres absolutely nothing to lose.
Man this is annoying to know, one LoL tournament gets fucked up by lack of LAN and Riot is right on it. Several SC2 series/tournaments including a certain GSTL finals have been ruined by lack of LAN and Blizzard keeps ignoring it.
Here is a vivid example of the difference in business models. Once you've paid your 60$, Blizzard doesn't GIVE A SHIT. You can complain as much as you want and it will all fall on deaf ears because they have your money and they're not getting any more from you for that game. Riot has a business model reliant on their players coming back time and time again with microtransactions and is much more responsive as a result. One tournament interrupted and within a week LAN in tournament mode goes up for Riot, whereas Blizzard SC2 tournaments have been ruined repeatedly by lack of LAN play. And they still won't change.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
(it was Sarcasm if you couldn't tell -_-)
not like complaining at either place would do anything at this point.
Too depressed to identify sarcasm.
I hope they make LAN just for tourney... but I don't think they will
They are gonna add it, its just #8294 on their might-do list xD however i see no reason for them not too. Only that you cannot check whether or not 1 battlenet user is used more than once at the same time without internet, which means you can have 232324 computers playing lan sc2 for 1 games price, and blizzard would probably like people to buy those other 232323 accounts.
I wonder what's going to happen when KeSPA decides to give Riot the finger in the future. Hopefully they would have implemented enough safe guards with so that you will still need to authenticate with their servers and such, and only have LAN during the game.
On October 13 2012 10:18 NovaTheFeared wrote: Here is a vivid example of the difference in business models. Once you've paid your 60$, Blizzard doesn't GIVE A SHIT. You can complain as much as you want and it will all fall on deaf ears because they have your money and they're not getting any more from you for that game.
Blizzard clearly doesn't have a reputation to keep, and they especially do not have any future games (expansions?) that they'd love to sell to their fanbase that may or may not hate their current "shit-giving" attitude and would judge their purchase based on that. It's a good thing blizzard doesn't give a shit because we all bought SC2 and thats (coincidentally) the only game they'll be making, they should run with their money now before we notice!
Yeah I'm pretty sure they at least give some shit to what we think.
Blizzard and LAN is just like Mitt Romney and tax returns. Literally everyone is saying "release it already!", and they ignore it completely. Like what are they hiding here? What's the real agenda?
On October 13 2012 10:18 NovaTheFeared wrote: Here is a vivid example of the difference in business models. Once you've paid your 60$, Blizzard doesn't GIVE A SHIT. You can complain as much as you want and it will all fall on deaf ears because they have your money and they're not getting any more from you for that game.
Blizzard clearly doesn't have a reputation to keep, and they especially do not have any future games that they'd love to sell to their fanbase that may or may not hate their current "shit-giving" attitude.. It's a good thing blizzard doesn't give a shit because we all bought SC2 and thats (coincidentally) the only game they'll be making, they should run with their money now before we notice!
Yeah I'm pretty sure they at least give some shit to what we think.
Blizzard has shown that they care much less about their brand quality than they used to. SC2's battle net a step backward from SC and lack of LAN play. D3 release, infinite problems. MoP? Sells less in a week than Cata in a day. So even though you're being sarcastic, you're actually correct.
Where is SC2s? Its simple... non existant. Same reason LoL pulls 10x the amount of viewers... Riot promotes their game and advertises when their game is being played in a tournament.
Why is the LoL community infinitely larger than SC2? Because Riot makes it a priority for it to be that way.
When you log into LoL, there is a BIGASS logo on the front page saying "Hello LoL players, did you know there is a GIANT tournament going on? Did you even know there was professional LoL? Click here for INSTANT ACCESS. You dont even ahve to google shit, we have the link for you."
meanwhile SC2 cant even advertise tournaments, even with a simple little picture in their TERRIBLE bnet2.0 interface.
On October 13 2012 08:07 zhurai wrote: Maybe complaining to the people who actually make the game would be a better idea than putting it at Teamliquid who doesn't make the game?
You are right no one has asked Blizzard for LAN yet. Someone get on that!
Holy trolling batman! Nice to see you Nony, your response should have ended this thread but instead it will keep it going much longer ;p
On October 13 2012 10:18 NovaTheFeared wrote: Here is a vivid example of the difference in business models. Once you've paid your 60$, Blizzard doesn't GIVE A SHIT. You can complain as much as you want and it will all fall on deaf ears because they have your money and they're not getting any more from you for that game.
Blizzard clearly doesn't have a reputation to keep, and they especially do not have any future games that they'd love to sell to their fanbase that may or may not hate their current "shit-giving" attitude.. It's a good thing blizzard doesn't give a shit because we all bought SC2 and thats (coincidentally) the only game they'll be making, they should run with their money now before we notice!
Yeah I'm pretty sure they at least give some shit to what we think.
Blizzard has shown that they care much less about their brand quality than they used to. SC2's battle net a step backward from SC and lack of LAN play. D3 release, infinite problems. MoP? Sells less in a week than Cata in a day. So even though you're being sarcastic, you're actually correct.
I'm currently playing MoP actually, and I can definitely put my word out there to say that it's a big improvement from the disappointment of Cataclysm, and definitely one of the best expansions once you get your nostalgia out of the way. Especially in WoW's case, first week sales dont reflect anything other than the hype surrounding the upcoming product. Cata was puffed up and supposed to be the best thing to ever hit WoW, while Blizz kept their head tucked down for MoP in terms of advertising. D3 has been bagged on for all the problems during release, and thats all that will be remembered by people who left after the first few months. I've never played it personally, but I'm pretty sure we've had quite a number of people from TL say that the game is much better now as well.
You're not really making any sense by saying they dont care about their reputation, especially considering that Blizzard is also working on an entirely new franchise-- whose sales will probably be determined mostly by the current reputation of their other games right now.
On October 13 2012 08:24 Zato-1 wrote: @OP: Did you see the massive shitfest that was the Season 2 League of Legends World Series? One quarter-finals game (between CLG.eu and World Elite) had to be replayed like 3 times until eventually they gave up and had to postpone the match for another day.
That? That's inexcusable.
SC2 has had some hiccups, but overall the lack of LAN hasn't been catastrophic for tournament and league experience.
You should've mentioned the somewhat totally obvious cheating that took place too but it's cool.
Its all Activision. Their entire mindset on this issue is all DRM and how to make their games impossible to pirate.
Why is Dota2 getting lan? Valve has a completely different stance on piracy, they view it as a service issue. If their service was good enough, the pirates would convert to steam.
Activion has a completely different view on piracy, they view it as if their product was impossible to pirate, then all the pirates would suddenly have buy their game. Ingenious
On October 13 2012 11:02 TheWorldToCome wrote: Having to play through battle.net is the only leverage that blizz or GOM has of kespa becoming what is was in sc1.
That doesn't make any sense, as Blizzard will still "own" the lanbox, and they could simply refuse to lend one out to kespa. The software on those boxes arent anything you can "copy". Which is why excuses like "piracy" and what you just posted doesn't hold up in the slightest.
Blizzards argument against LAN is basically that they are worried that there will be a matchmaking system like Garena or iccup which people will use instead of bnet.
Seems like they are worried a bunch of guys working for free could make a better matchmaking system than BNet 2.0.
I think Riot did it because what happened during that was SO massive that they had to do something. LAN was the only logical choice because DotA 2 already has LAN and the game isn't even released yet. If Riot didn't add LAN, I'm sure people would question it until they gave in.
SC2 hasn't had that happen yet, and until something huge like that happens for SC2, Blizz won't budge.
On October 13 2012 09:11 NeutraLiTe wrote: Some of you guys have really short memories. With no LAN, Blizzard essentially holds the nuclear option in any eSF/KeSPA debacle that can (and most likely will) arise in the future. Competition encourages healthy growth of esports, and if there was a LAN mode in the game KeSPA could essentially give the middle finger to eSF and Blizzard and pull all their players out of every foreign tournament and the GSL.
Blizzard more than likely WAS going to step into the GSL Season 4 / Season 5 issue, but eSF took it upon itself to pull its players out of the OSL.
This all isn't to say places like MLG, IPL, GSL, etc should not have a LAN client, but I'm sure Blizzard is terrified it could basically be "cracked" by tournament employees and thus the nuclear option is lost.
I don't think you understand what competition actually is.
So what you're saying is things would be more competitive if KeSPA singlehandedly segregated the two leagues like they wanted to and have done before in BW. Gotcha.
Blizzard will give us LAN once they economically need to. Most likely after LOTV starts to wan in popularity. Then we can have all the SC2 LAN parties we want.
People that watch a lot of tournies only benefit from no lan, every time broadband goes down at an event they actually wait for it to be fixed so they can play, instead of playing it out on lan and showing you a vod the next day...
I'm with the guy on page #1, lets start small, and once Blizzard figures out a way to allow you to change your character name, then we might start thinking about the technological leaps necessary to do the bigger stuff.
On October 13 2012 08:08 ExPresident wrote: Blizzard likes to operate on a 1 step forward, 3 steps back tempo. What was possible 10 years ago just isn't now you know.
Good for LoL
Edit -
To the person above me, people have complained to blizzard, didn't do any good.
On October 13 2012 08:08 ExPresident wrote: Blizzard likes to operate on a 1 step forward, 3 steps back tempo. What was possible 10 years ago just isn't now you know.
Good for LoL
Edit -
To the person above me, people have complained to blizzard, didn't do any good.
Soo how is complaining to TL better?
that's what I've been asking this whole thread really but nobody has answered any good reasons >>
Will pro have access to LAN mode without playing in a tournament? They need to get used to LAN latency in order to play well at tournament. Otherwise, it's better not to have LAN
On October 13 2012 13:20 RockIronrod wrote: I don't know why we're using LoL as a benchmark for esports, especially since it is a travesty right now.
The issues is likely the key reason why its getting the tournament lan. As far as it being a travesty, not even close. Watch the finals tomorrow, or at least look at the viewer count.
On October 13 2012 08:11 mrtomjones wrote: Man.. you need to think before you complain. Free to play vs pay to play. Blizzard does not want people to play their game for free and unfortunately this is one effective way to stop it. They are putting in new functions for tournaments as it is but I very much doubt you will ever see Lan for SC2.
Counter-argument. Riot is not a charity, they rely on their unlock system to make money. As with all F2P games, this involves accounts being stored on the server to ensure that people do not get free shit. A LAN client opens up the door to hacking the game and allowing all champs and skins to be unlocked. This is equivalent to SC2 "piracy" that would result from LAN. Let's just ignore the fact that wringing your hands over piracy for a game that's 2 years old is just idiotic.
Second point, this is not the real reason that SC2 doesn't have LAN, it's due to KESPAs previous bullshit. The use of a LAN client for tournaments would have to be authorized and monitored. If KESPA got ahold of it there's the potential to open pandora's box and cut off Blizzards influence in Korea once again, though you would think Blizzard has put MORE than enough legal protections in place to prevent that from happening now.
One way or the other Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. A F2P entirely online game is about to beat them in the "technology" race and clearly demonstrating that they care about the player experience and tournament legitimacy.
I mentioned Kespa in my 2nd post but it and the pirating essentially are the same end goal in my opinion. I don't think SC2 should get LAN and it is entirely because of BW that I believe that.
On October 13 2012 13:20 RockIronrod wrote: I don't know why we're using LoL as a benchmark for esports, especially since it is a travesty right now.
because it doesn't draw 5-10x the numbers of any other esport currently in existence?
But what does success have to do with success.
But what does viewership really mean... in a sport where viewership means everything... like more money. Money isn't that important in business anyways tho, you are right. Money only funds teams, tournaments, and the company that makes the game. But what does that really mean besides a larger scene, with more teams, more sponsorship money, and even bigger prizes and tournaments?
You are right. Clearly it makes no sense that other esports should strive to be as successful as LoL.
the LoL PLAYOFFS (not even the finals) had over 500,000 concurrent viewers.
Another game that has done that before is.... FALSE.
its not that hard to understand, its easier for LoL to implement a LAN when its a free to play game already so they don't have to worry about any kind of piracy related to it as its already free to play
On October 13 2012 13:20 RockIronrod wrote: I don't know why we're using LoL as a benchmark for esports, especially since it is a travesty right now.
because it doesn't draw 5-10x the numbers of any other esport currently in existence?
But what does success have to do with success.
But what does viewership really mean... in a sport where viewership means everything... like more money. Money isn't that important in business anyways tho, you are right. Money only funds teams, tournaments, and the company that makes the game. But what does that really mean besides a larger scene, with more teams, more sponsorship money, and even bigger prizes and tournaments?
You are right. Clearly it makes no sense that other esports should strive to be as successful as LoL.
the LoL PLAYOFFS (not even the finals) had over 500,000 concurrent viewers.
Another game that has done that before is.... FALSE.
You do know how LoL viewship works right? They are not real viewers, client-embedded viewers are not watching the game lol
On October 13 2012 13:20 RockIronrod wrote: I don't know why we're using LoL as a benchmark for esports, especially since it is a travesty right now.
because it doesn't draw 5-10x the numbers of any other esport currently in existence?
But what does success have to do with success.
But what does viewership really mean... in a sport where viewership means everything... like more money. Money isn't that important in business anyways tho, you are right. Money only funds teams, tournaments, and the company that makes the game. But what does that really mean besides a larger scene, with more teams, more sponsorship money, and even bigger prizes and tournaments?
You are right. Clearly it makes no sense that other esports should strive to be as successful as LoL.
the LoL PLAYOFFS (not even the finals) had over 500,000 concurrent viewers.
Another game that has done that before is.... FALSE.
You do know how LoL viewship works right? They are not real viewers, client-embedded viewers are not watching the game lol
Inside the client there will be a link to view the stream if you want. But merely having the client open doesn't add to the viewer count.
Starcraft II needs another RTS game that's worthy of watching as an e-sport and catches on. In the MOBA/ARTS whatever genre they give the thing there's a shitton of competition going on and that leads to things like this. Starcraft II doesn't has any real competitors in the same genre.
On October 13 2012 08:10 Fionn wrote: If SC2 was free-to-play, it would have LAN.
It's not, so it doesn't have it.
Though people could then pirate ingame champs, skins and other things which is where Riot makes all it's money so it does indeed apply. So I don't know where this oh it's ftp thing comes in as being valid cause it honestly isn't. I mean I could be wrong and if I am let me know but with LAN it opens them up to being pirated as well.
On October 13 2012 13:20 RockIronrod wrote: I don't know why we're using LoL as a benchmark for esports, especially since it is a travesty right now.
because it doesn't draw 5-10x the numbers of any other esport currently in existence?
But what does success have to do with success.
But what does viewership really mean... in a sport where viewership means everything... like more money. Money isn't that important in business anyways tho, you are right. Money only funds teams, tournaments, and the company that makes the game. But what does that really mean besides a larger scene, with more teams, more sponsorship money, and even bigger prizes and tournaments?
You are right. Clearly it makes no sense that other esports should strive to be as successful as LoL.
the LoL PLAYOFFS (not even the finals) had over 500,000 concurrent viewers.
Another game that has done that before is.... FALSE.
Viewership isn't everything (also The International had more viewers). I was referring to the recent shit that's happened. MLG finals prize money splitting, shoddy production leading to mass cheating because Riot doesn't believe in booths, three different restarts due to drops, the constant shit swinging by Riot who seem to be actively trying to kill eSports with exclusivity clauses for teams and tournaments... Riot sold its soul for viewers, that is not something that should be emulated, standardised or admired.
On October 13 2012 15:09 Forikorder wrote: LoL is already free so LoL doesnt ahve to worry about people ripping it off
SC2 is not free so Blizz does
On October 13 2012 08:09 strongandbig wrote: isn't lol ftp? The whole "we dont want people to pirate our game" thing doesn't apply. Not that I think blizzard is necessarily on the right side of that, but it's really a whole different question.
It very much does still apply to LoL because they get their revenue from skins and hero unlocks and other stuff (runes, etc.)— a LAN version would allow all players the use of all purchasable content. Note that this is just a tournament version and not something intended to be released to the public. Sure there's security concerns, but SC2 wouldn't even have security concern really since 3rd party LAN already exists. I don't know if LoL has some sort of 3rd party LAN but I don't think so (as far as I know it uses [real/true]client-server communication in the games so it would be harder to emulate unlike Starcraft)
On October 13 2012 08:10 Fionn wrote: If SC2 was free-to-play, it would have LAN. It's not, so it doesn't have it.
Even if this were true (which it isn't, as I previously explained), that's improper reasoning. Starcraft 2 already has an excellent 3rd party LAN system, so it really makes very little sense for Blizzard not to allow LAN,since they're not really stopping anyone from playing LAN, they're just making it SLIGHTLY more of a hassle. On the other hand, the LoL does not have a 3rd party LAN (I could be wrong), and it's harder to emulate as far as I know, which makes it more reasonable to keep no LAN functionality.
On October 13 2012 08:13 Narfinger wrote: Easy. Just ask Kespa. Did you already forgot what they did try a few weeks ago?
Or to be precise: Lan just for tournaments kills competition because the players can't train with the same latency. Lan for everyone, says hello to Kespa.
I haven't heard — can you explain? If some group (ie. KeSPA) is finally using 3rd party LAN for SC2 tournaments I'm glad; It's about time someone did.
On October 13 2012 09:11 NeutraLiTe wrote: Some of you guys have really short memories. With no LAN, Blizzard essentially holds the nuclear option in any eSF/KeSPA debacle that can (and most likely will) arise in the future. Competition encourages healthy growth of esports, and if there was a LAN mode in the game KeSPA could essentially give the middle finger to eSF and Blizzard and pull all their players out of every foreign tournament and the GSL.
Blizzard more than likely WAS going to step into the GSL Season 4 / Season 5 issue, but eSF took it upon itself to pull its players out of the OSL.
This all isn't to say places like MLG, IPL, GSL, etc should not have a LAN client, but I'm sure Blizzard is terrified it could basically be "cracked" by tournament employees and thus the nuclear option is lost.
Sorry dude but you must have been living under a rock for the last year or more — SC2 has had 3rd party LAN for a long time — that's not what's stopping people from playing LAN, it's the laws that are stopping them.
People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
On October 13 2012 08:08 ExPresident wrote: Blizzard likes to operate on a 1 step forward, 3 steps back tempo. What was possible 10 years ago just isn't now you know.
True, must be so hard to implement clan tags into SC2 thats why they still arent in the game 2 years after SC2s release lol....
Seriously though the LAN debate i thought that was over and done with ages ago and people just gave up on it.
People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
I don't think SC2 needed any exposure in Korea but IMO Blizzard stuffed it up and the game will never be as popular as Brood War when it could and should have been even bigger.
Esports doesn't give Blizzard money, purchases do. If you seriously think piracy has no impact I'm afraid you may have had a large hit to the head recently and should get that checked out.
How the fuck does it promote piracy? You don't make it open to everyone... Just to every event that is above a certain prize pool or audience. Any tournament with a prize pool above 5,000 has to pay Blizzard money anyways right?
i think they'll probably do it for major tournaments but i think the main issue is blizzard doesn't run tournaments for the most part while riot had major issues at their own major event. Blizzard can get away with blaming the tournament organizers(or in ipl3's case the universe) but since they don't set it up themselves it's easy for them to say its not their fault.
honestly i like the option of being able to start games from replays is FAR more awesome, because it opens up the opportunity to play through specific scenarios over and over again which opens up a whole new level of training. If I had to choose between LAN and that i'm pretty sure it choose starting games from replays everytime.
On October 13 2012 15:10 Xapti wrote: Even if this were true (which it isn't, as I previously explained), that's improper reasoning. Starcraft 2 already has an excellent 3rd party LAN system, so it really makes very little sense for Blizzard not to allow LAN,since they're not really stopping anyone from playing LAN, they're just making it SLIGHTLY more of a hassle. On the other hand, the LoL does not have a 3rd party LAN (I could be wrong), and it's harder to emulate as far as I know, which makes it more reasonable to keep no LAN functionality.
On October 13 2012 08:13 Narfinger wrote: Easy. Just ask Kespa. Did you already forgot what they did try a few weeks ago?
Or to be precise: Lan just for tournaments kills competition because the players can't train with the same latency. Lan for everyone, says hello to Kespa.
I haven't heard — can you explain? If some group (ie. KeSPA) is finally using 3rd party LAN for SC2 tournaments I'm glad; It's about time someone did.
On October 13 2012 09:11 NeutraLiTe wrote: Some of you guys have really short memories. With no LAN, Blizzard essentially holds the nuclear option in any eSF/KeSPA debacle that can (and most likely will) arise in the future. Competition encourages healthy growth of esports, and if there was a LAN mode in the game KeSPA could essentially give the middle finger to eSF and Blizzard and pull all their players out of every foreign tournament and the GSL.
Blizzard more than likely WAS going to step into the GSL Season 4 / Season 5 issue, but eSF took it upon itself to pull its players out of the OSL.
This all isn't to say places like MLG, IPL, GSL, etc should not have a LAN client, but I'm sure Blizzard is terrified it could basically be "cracked" by tournament employees and thus the nuclear option is lost.
Sorry dude but you must have been living under a rock for the last year or more — SC2 has had 3rd party LAN for a long time — that's not what's stopping people from playing LAN, it's the laws that are stopping them.
Many people already explained it. It is very easy. If Kespa gets LAN they do what the want with the game. They will kill eSF because they have the starpower. They will make lots of money from tournaments without blizzard seeing anything in return. Especially the last part is not comparable with LoL. In LoL you see a nice play and want to have that hero or skin and buy it. Constant income for Riot. Blizzard doesn't get any income from me watching a SC2 tournament (if you believe Rob Simpson on Reddit). Now I know, everybody on TL just doesn't want to give Blizzard any money and believes that the game can live with the initial price forever.
And don't compare any game company to valve. Valve is not a game company. They make a digital download service. It doesn't matter if they don't get money on Dota2, if just 10.000 new steam accounts are made in China. Which then start to buy games and so on.
On October 13 2012 15:55 Kluey wrote: How the fuck does it promote piracy? You don't make it open to everyone... Just to every event that is above a certain prize pool or audience. Any tournament with a prize pool above 5,000 has to pay Blizzard money anyways right?
And you believe it wouldnt leak out?! Srsly, for example i watched x-men wolverine directors edition like 3 or 2 weeks before release ... You cannot control that. Its good as it is, but there could be special server for lan events, like NA,EU,KOR,LAN.
Sometimes you just have to accept something because it will never change. LAN and SCII is one of those things. Personally i don't see any need for LAN if they fix disconnect issues. From a business perspective it makes no sense to have LAN unless the game is free to play.
The once mentioned that they might include special servers for tournaments. This is something I could see included at some point and it comes very close to lan.
This LoL LAN is not really a LAN mode, its more like moving a company server to the tournament. LoL might be free to play, but Riot makes huge amounts of money with selling skins for the heroes, so they too wont ever give away a LAN mode.
Why do people keep asking blizzard for LAN? Can't everyone see that Blizzard doesnt have the technology and resources for LAN yet? Stop asking them to make something that hasn't been invented yet.
On October 13 2012 17:56 LaNague wrote: This LoL LAN is not really a LAN mode, its more like moving a company server to the tournament. LoL might be free to play, but Riot makes huge amounts of money with selling skins for the heroes, so they too wont ever give away a LAN mode.
This guy has it right. It is LAN basically but it's not actually ever going to be released outside of their company. It's just riot's way of making their tournament not fail disastrously like it did last week with all the regames due to internet problems. Too bad it won't protect riot from blackouts xD
On October 13 2012 08:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
No one is gonna pirate sc2 to play versus the Ai or have their friends bring their entire set ups over.
Someone does not have that many friends.... me and my friends bring their set ups over all the time for lans. We did it with SC1 and WC3 as well. It is a lot more common than you think. Why do you think people go to PC Bangs instead of just play from their house, social aspect dude.
So OP compared f2p game with a full priced game. Blizzard has stated time and time again that piracy is why they are not making any lan clients. Even if you make one for huge tournaments only, like GSL MLG whatever they still get leaked.
On October 13 2012 10:13 drbrown wrote: Man this is annoying to know, one LoL tournament gets fucked up by lack of LAN and Riot is right on it. Several SC2 series/tournaments including a certain GSTL finals have been ruined by lack of LAN and Blizzard keeps ignoring it.
SC2 has never had an issue anywhere near as bad as what just happened. Anyone who was actually watching the lol tournament will know this.
They had to restart THREE times and finally gave up before deciding to reschedule the match. Nothing to this extent has ever and will ever happen due to SC2 due to disconnects. Especially with the new resume from replay feature.
People comparing the 2 situations clearly have no idea what actually happened.
On October 13 2012 19:24 AzureHath wrote: SC2 will never see LAN while it operates a non-F2P model.
False. SC2 can have a a LAN tournament server just fine without being F2P. There are lots of ways to support a LAN server at a tournament while still requiring people to login with battle.net accounts, or with security options in the LAN server to only operate if blizzard allows it.
The problem I can see is, it's not really good PR for Blizzard to say: "our battle.net service is not good enough for pros to play on". I think that might be some of the problems with explaining blizzard execs why it is a good idea. Throwing money after stuff which wont benefit the people who pays for the game.
Remember the LoL "lan" is just a tournament server. With the speed it was brougt out, they either had the code ready or made a quick 'n dirty hack where the "lan" client think they are on the global network but in reality the server they login too are on a LAN.
They might have the first options, as IEM said Riot installed some kind of lan server for them (not sure). But then why weren't they using it? The second option I think is much more likely after the humiliation last weekend...
And for those who says the GSTL finals was ruined by not having LAN, LAN wouldn't have helped any bit for it...
In reality the game resume feature blizzard is releasing soon will properly help on most LAN complains resulting from crashed games (if it works according to plan). A lan client will only help on the "lag" part of online play with it and from tournament internet completly crashing.
Riot is more willing to pander to fans regardless of the long term implication on the game. Because LoL is more of a fad than a sustainable esport, but that's just my opinion.
Obviously there are decent arguments for both sides. Now I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread, but I thought it was to be able to strongarm KeSPA for licencing rights, etc?
On October 13 2012 08:13 Narfinger wrote: Easy. Just ask Kespa. Did you already forgot what they did try a few weeks ago?
Or to be precise: Lan just for tournaments kills competition because the players can't train with the same latency. Lan for everyone, says hello to Kespa.
Are you telling me you perform worse when you practice on say, the NA server with 200-300ms, then go to compete in a LAN tournament with ~0ms delay? I don't think thats possible. How would you get WORSE from having a lower latency? You go into single player, and suddenly it feels so good cause theres no lag. Imagine having that for multi-player, albeit only having single-player latency for tournament games. You should be better, right? If that analogy didn't work, this one might. Imagine playing on the Korean server and the North American one (assume you are living in America). There is 500ms delay on the Korean server, and 200ms delay on the North American one. Assuming you practice mostly on the Korean one, there would be no reason you would perform worse on the North American one cause there is less lag, and this analogy I would imagine would make sense and relate to people who have cross-server accounts.
On October 13 2012 10:13 drbrown wrote: Man this is annoying to know, one LoL tournament gets fucked up by lack of LAN and Riot is right on it. Several SC2 series/tournaments including a certain GSTL finals have been ruined by lack of LAN and Blizzard keeps ignoring it.
SC2 has never had an issue anywhere near as bad as what just happened. Anyone who was actually watching the lol tournament will know this.
They had to restart THREE times and finally gave up before deciding to reschedule the match. Nothing to this extent has ever and will ever happen due to SC2 due to disconnects. Especially with the new resume from replay feature.
People comparing the 2 situations clearly have no idea what actually happened.
Sounds like the first MLG season's finals, wasn't there something like 6 hours of delays? Though that may have been a venue thing.
On October 13 2012 13:14 dragonblade369 wrote: Will pro have access to LAN mode without playing in a tournament? They need to get used to LAN latency in order to play well at tournament. Otherwise, it's better not to have LAN
You can set it up so it will have pre-fixed latency even on LAN, it's not that difficult.
On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote: Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible.
starfriend does 2 years now
On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote: People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote: People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money.
this is the real reason
If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them...
Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it.
On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote: Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible.
starfriend does 2 years now
On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote: People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money.
this is the real reason
If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them...
Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it.
how can they control a tournament server if its setup in your house/net cafe?
LAN aint an option as SC BW had it and Blizzard wants to make new stuff and not just use old for example Battle Hellion or should I say Hellbat after last HotS update.
On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote: Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible.
starfriend does 2 years now
On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote: People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money.
this is the real reason
If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them...
Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it.
how can they control a tournament server if its setup in your house/net cafe?
Blizzard don't give a crap about tournaments you can run from your house as it is. Internet cafes they can simply threaten with legal action and most will budge.
LOL @ people that say Bw had lan.. give it to SC 2 NOW NOW ! hahaha . In times when blizzard was making money by selling SC/BW game piracy was not that "popular" , they didint lose much money by it. Now we have other times , every game developers company protect own games , its natural . You all just need grown up , time for games was changed long time ago
On October 13 2012 21:30 Black[CAT] wrote: SC2 will never get LAN, just like it will never get clan tags and shared replay watching.
and why you lie.. ? shared replay watching and many more , was already annunced with HOTS , same as cross region play etc
On October 13 2012 08:15 setzer wrote: Blizzard just doesn't have the technology to make it possible.
starfriend does 2 years now
On October 13 2012 15:33 Nighttmoon wrote: People are saying that it is because of piracy have no idea what is going on. No. Piracy does not hurt as much as you think. It doesn't hurt at all. Piracy provides exposure, and with more exposure, the game gets more popular. As a company your primary goal is exposure, to get as many people to know about it as possible. that is how you make money in the long run.
The mean reason is control. Esports is an industry, and Starcraft 2 is the at the center of all of this. Blizzard would not risk giving up control. If they gave people LAN, than it would mean people anywhere around the world can host a tournament with out there permission. With LAN, people can potentially make money off of Starcraft 2 and cut off Blizzard as the middleman completely. Just like KESPA did with BW. Why did you think that it took this long for KESPA to switch to Starcraft 2?
ESports is not a booming industry at all, although the gaming industry is. But there is a difference between ESports and general gaming.
LoL has great exposure, the majority of LoL players are casual players, some of them have never even played games before starting LoL. Why is it so successful? It is because a lot of people know about, unlike Starcraft which only appeals to a small audience. If this is where Blizzard is heading, then Starcraft will eventually die off. Esports is already at such mercy of the fans. MLG even have to charge 10 dollars viewing fee.
At the end of the day, its all about the money.
this is the real reason
If Blizzard controls the LAN tournament server, they can control the tournament market in the same way as they do now. So it's a bad argument. Remember the announced LAN feature by riot is a LAN server given by them...
Also, I do believe the game market still believes that piracy hurts the industry. It's very clear to see this with the amount of anti piracy software is delivered with new blockbusters. If this is true is still to be determined, but most things shows this is not true. But companies still don't believe it.
how can they control a tournament server if its setup in your house/net cafe?
Easy. A tournament has to apply directly to blizzard to retrieve the LAN server, and they form a contract to not give away the software. They can even say only tournaments directly santioned by Blizzard as of the current ToS can apply for a LAN server. Then they already have the policies in place to apply for it.
I'm pretty sure, if LAN comes before a F2P model that blizzard wont make it available to everybody, but only to big tournaments.
Also why would an internet cafe bother to run a LAN server? They already need to have good internet in order for people to play WoW, why then use a substiantial budget to have a server running SC2 when the customers can play it online?
I wish Blizzard would sell the rights of Starcraft to Valve
And Valve will turn it into crap like CSGO DotA 2 ? well played
Dota 2 is SO bad that its currently the most played game on steam, even thought its still in beta. Its in fact such a bad game that Riot tried to shove them out of the market with threats to the Lol teams and tournament organizers saying they could never pick up Dota..You know, because they don't think its going to be a popular game.
whatever you do, do not ever criticize Valve unless you have something legitimate to criticize them about. They are doing too far a good job, and there are too many fanboys (me included) for you to get out unscathed.
On October 13 2012 22:08 pallad wrote: LOL @ people that say Bw had lan.. give it to SC 2 NOW NOW ! hahaha . In times when blizzard was making money by selling SC/BW game piracy was not that "popular" , they didint lose much money by it. Now we have other times , every game developers company protect own games , its natural . You all just need grown up , time for games was changed long time ago
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "Oh hey, piracy was not a big thing 10 years ago". Yes it bloody was and companies went to absurd lengths to protect their products, even more so prior to that. Lemme guess, you don't remember code wheels, dongles and manual quizzes? How about Starforce, a DRM system that rootkitted your machine?
As of 2007, Brood War sold over 10 million units. That game was "pirateable", it had LAN and yet it still sold a shit-ton of copies. Frozen Throne had LAN and was also pirateable, hell for the longest time when I was younger I had a dodgy copy and a dodgy key before I was able to get a full version. That sold over 5 million copies.
Blizzard has never had a reason to "fear" piracy, they are one of the most dominant forces in the PC market and their games always sell by the truckload. I am sick and tired of consumers taking it up the arse and then saying "thank you sir may I have another?" for whatever god-forsaken reason. It is not your job to defend the company that is taking your money, you are not PR.
On October 13 2012 08:08 ExPresident wrote: Blizzard likes to operate on a 1 step forward, 3 steps back tempo. What was possible 10 years ago just isn't now you know.
Good for LoL
Edit -
To the person above me, people have complained to blizzard, didn't do any good.
Soo how is complaining to TL better?
that's what I've been asking this whole thread really but nobody has answered any good reasons >>
On October 13 2012 22:08 pallad wrote: LOL @ people that say Bw had lan.. give it to SC 2 NOW NOW ! hahaha . In times when blizzard was making money by selling SC/BW game piracy was not that "popular" , they didint lose much money by it. Now we have other times , every game developers company protect own games , its natural . You all just need grown up , time for games was changed long time ago
I wish Blizzard would sell the rights of Starcraft to Valve
And Valve will turn it into crap like CSGO DotA 2 ? well played
Dota 2 is a crap ? lol get a life man , or back to play LOL
Gmae piracy/bootlegging and all that crap was very popular even back then. -__-
They lost a lot of money from it. As for DRM being the new thing. You see lots of companies scratching that altogether because a) it doesn't work b) it costs them more to implement.
blizzard doesn't really give a shit about esports remember? mike morhaime is only really worried about how many copies HotS sells, while trying to make sure no one can "pirate" it, while bobby kotick worries about how to put DLC into LotV
On October 13 2012 22:08 pallad wrote: LOL @ people that say Bw had lan.. give it to SC 2 NOW NOW ! hahaha . In times when blizzard was making money by selling SC/BW game piracy was not that "popular" , they didint lose much money by it. Now we have other times , every game developers company protect own games , its natural . You all just need grown up , time for games was changed long time ago
Um ... everyone burned games. They didn't torrent, but piracy was very, very rampant in the days of BW. Were you born yesterday?
I had many burned copies of games, but people bought SC:BW for the CD Key so they could play online. Same reason for Diablo II, and countless other online enabled games.
Yes, there were probably a lot of LAN netcafes that just had burned copies of the game. But BW still sold a shitton.
On October 13 2012 22:08 pallad wrote: LOL @ people that say Bw had lan.. give it to SC 2 NOW NOW ! hahaha . In times when blizzard was making money by selling SC/BW game piracy was not that "popular" , they didint lose much money by it. Now we have other times , every game developers company protect own games , its natural . You all just need grown up , time for games was changed long time ago
On October 13 2012 21:30 Black[CAT] wrote: SC2 will never get LAN, just like it will never get clan tags and shared replay watching.
and why you lie.. ? shared replay watching and many more , was already annunced with HOTS , same as cross region play etc
On October 13 2012 21:24 foxj wrote:
I wish Blizzard would sell the rights of Starcraft to Valve
And Valve will turn it into crap like CSGO DotA 2 ? well played
Dota 2 is a crap ? lol get a life man , or back to play LOL
Gmae piracy/bootlegging and all that crap was very popular even back then. -__-
They lost a lot of money from it. As for DRM being the new thing. You see lots of companies scratching that altogether because a) it doesn't work b) it costs them more to implement.
-_-
Maby but which game had at the time security things ? answer is none. In present day , like every online game is protected , in almost every title ,you need make account somewere .. log in somewhere to play it..there was no such thing in the past . No lan in Sc 2 is pure business , and they are greedy , sure . But you really think idiots are working in blizzard , and they cant add lan to own game ? common
Although we probably never see Lan I think the Resume from replay is a good alternative. It's not as great as Lan but it's a huge step forward. Now if Blizzard actually would hurry up with that stuff.
Here we see a great example of two games in the same genre vying for top spot in competitive gaming. I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.) Because DOTA2 is trying to vie for the numbers of LoL, when LoL's tournaments have internet issues, LoL needs to respond.
Unfortunately for us there is no RTS alternative waiting in the wings to push Blizzard to new (or old) heights. We have had multiple examples of internet issues and battlenet latency will always affect the microbility of units. To me LAN latency is a must for any competitive game. Anything less in unacceptable if we we want top notch performance. But unfortunately Blizzard can continue to ignore it because they have no genuine competition. But For SC, I don't think just tournament LAN is sufficient because of the differences of unit handling between practice and tournaments.
Edit As for all the piracy/ control stuff... if there was a genuine threat to SC2's dominance that had LAN in their tournaments, I'm very confident Blizzard would also abandon their "will never happen" arguments and add LAN.
Does anyone else just feel that we are beating a dead horse about this until HOTS release?
The UI patch could have done more regarding offline functionality, but it was a pretty rough transition in and of itself considering the bugs. Blizzard has said LAN will be in HOTS, barring a few notable exceptions we have fared well enough without it. It is in the pipeline and I would rather have it done right, than a rush job from Blizzard which have definitely proved less reliable.
If you look at Riot's issues with the world championship it makes perfect sense why they are implementing it now. Until then SC2 will do its best with what it has, the entire community is behind this it is simply a waiting game now.
On October 13 2012 09:11 NeutraLiTe wrote: Some of you guys have really short memories. With no LAN, Blizzard essentially holds the nuclear option in any eSF/KeSPA debacle that can (and most likely will) arise in the future. Competition encourages healthy growth of esports, and if there was a LAN mode in the game KeSPA could essentially give the middle finger to eSF and Blizzard and pull all their players out of every foreign tournament and the GSL.
Blizzard more than likely WAS going to step into the GSL Season 4 / Season 5 issue, but eSF took it upon itself to pull its players out of the OSL.
This all isn't to say places like MLG, IPL, GSL, etc should not have a LAN client, but I'm sure Blizzard is terrified it could basically be "cracked" by tournament employees and thus the nuclear option is lost.
Sorry dude but you must have been living under a rock for the last year or more — SC2 has had 3rd party LAN for a long time — that's not what's stopping people from playing LAN, it's the laws that are stopping them.
I'm very well aware of what StarFriend is and what it does, so don't presume to think I've been living under a rock. Since you know so much about it, I assume you also know that it is incompatible with 1.5+. As soon as it's working again (and it took nearly a year to get it going in the first place), I have no doubt Blizzard can push a patch to break it again while the game client continues to evolve.
On October 14 2012 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.)
DotA 2 requires Steam and is made by the owner of Steam. How did you try even attempting this ownership point without your brain exploding?
On October 14 2012 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.)
DotA 2 requires Steam and is made by the owner of Steam. How did you try even attempting this ownership point without your brain exploding?
You can play most steam games without being connected to steam, though you won't have multiplayer functionality without LAN. Civ V, for example, is a LAN game you can play on steam, and you can play it without a steam account or being logged in via LAN with friends, getting full functionality.
On October 14 2012 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.)
DotA 2 requires Steam and is made by the owner of Steam. How did you try even attempting this ownership point without your brain exploding?
You can play most steam games without being connected to steam, though you won't have multiplayer functionality without LAN. Civ V, for example, is a LAN game you can play on steam, and you can play it without a steam account or being logged in via LAN with friends, getting full functionality.
Yes, but you don't own any of those games, they are all just rented...
On October 13 2012 08:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
Piracy is not the biggest reason at all, so you just proved that we need more threads.
Honestly the only time you'll have leverage is when HotS comes out and Blizzard wants your money again. If you start a boycott around that time, you *might* get something done. But now, when most copies have been sold nothing will change. And shortly after HotS's release you won't have any power either.
Just responding to the oft repeated point (I only read the first page, sue me):
Riot loses just as much from pirated LANs as Blizzard does because doing so gives you the possibility to unlock all skins and champions. Buying all of those costs you in the thousands of dollars, and that's per person pirating.
One easy way to get LAN on sc2 is to unionize and at the same time go on a strike and not play sc2 until LAN is implemented. Otherwise blizzard ain't going to listen t a small handful of people.
On October 14 2012 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.)
DotA 2 requires Steam and is made by the owner of Steam. How did you try even attempting this ownership point without your brain exploding?
You can play most steam games without being connected to steam, though you won't have multiplayer functionality without LAN. Civ V, for example, is a LAN game you can play on steam, and you can play it without a steam account or being logged in via LAN with friends, getting full functionality.
Yes, but you don't own any of those games, they are all just rented...
All software is just rented, you buy a license to use the software, hence rented.
On October 14 2012 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.)
DotA 2 requires Steam and is made by the owner of Steam. How did you try even attempting this ownership point without your brain exploding?
I don't think DOTA 2 through Steam is an ideal situation, but at least one gaming company (and now two) is saying that yes, LAN is useful now. Rather than this silly "LAN is a thing of the past. Get over it." We can't get away from this bad argument fast enough as far as I'm concerned. Lowering internet lag and latency is priceless for competitive gaming.
On October 14 2012 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't play DOTA2, but I 100% support their efforts because they've taken up the flag for LAN gaming in an age where we're moving more and more to always-online/ glorified game rentals. (You never truly own your game if gameplay is dependent on the game companies servers.)
DotA 2 requires Steam and is made by the owner of Steam. How did you try even attempting this ownership point without your brain exploding?
I don't think DOTA 2 through Steam is an ideal situation, but at least one gaming company (and now two) is saying that yes, LAN is useful now. Rather than this silly "LAN is a thing of the past. Get over it." We can't get away from this bad argument fast enough as far as I'm concerned. Lowering internet lag and latency is priceless for competitive gaming.
Dota 2 having LAN will take a long while IMO. While playing Dota2 via steam has some lag issue, sometime, the overall experience is pretty good. No major issue at LAN yet
It's not coming. They've made it clear. Browder even said at an interview at my school last year that LAN wasn't coming (the way he said it, he implied ever), it wasn't being considered, and that he would appreciate if no questions were asked about it.
On October 14 2012 10:50 FabledIntegral wrote: It's not coming. They've made it clear. Browder even said at an interview at my school last year that LAN wasn't coming (the way he said it, he implied ever), it wasn't being considered, and that he would appreciate if no questions were asked about it.
Lucky, I tried applying to The School of Rock and was rejected
There was an enormous letter which was gathering signatures asking blizzard to put LAN into SC2, but it didnt work. Last time I looked at it there were about 100k people on the list.
Of course piracy is a concern, but it's less of a concern when your game is a free to play game with microtransactions vs a 1 time purchase. If you "lose" the sale (yes this is debatable, whether the pirate would buy it in in the first place blah blah), you are guaranteed to lose 59.99 or w/e the sale price is. With a moba, only a certain percentage actually pay for upgrades, and the incentive isn't as strong to steal a free product.
As long as SC2 doesn't have some sort of microtransaction model to justify the business expense of investing significant amounts into progaming, Blizzard will always be 3rd behind Riot and Valve for support. It just doesn't make sense to do the kind of support when sc2 esports revenue is pretty much negligible.
Small correction: Slashers tweet was late, they already used the lan version during the semi finals. (source: yp or snoopeh said so). Last week during the groups and qtr's the games kept dropping and people were screen cheating, so riot sorted it all out in a couple of days, added lan client and built booths and changed the stage. Pretty amazing.
On October 15 2012 05:12 Kennigit wrote: Of course piracy is a concern, but it's less of a concern when your game is a free to play game with microtransactions vs a 1 time purchase. If you "lose" the sale (yes this is debatable, whether the pirate would buy it in in the first place blah blah), you are guaranteed to lose 59.99 or w/e the sale price is. With a moba, only a certain percentage actually pay for upgrades, and the incentive isn't as strong to steal a free product.
As long as SC2 doesn't have some sort of microtransaction model to justify the business expense of investing significant amounts into progaming, Blizzard will always be 3rd behind Riot and Valve for support. It just doesn't make sense to do the kind of support when sc2 esports revenue is pretty much negligible.
They don't have to release the sourcecode for LAN though, I'm pretty sure they could make a server just for major-premier events, and send 1 techguy to each event.
On October 15 2012 05:12 Kennigit wrote: Of course piracy is a concern, but it's less of a concern when your game is a free to play game with microtransactions vs a 1 time purchase. If you "lose" the sale (yes this is debatable, whether the pirate would buy it in in the first place blah blah), you are guaranteed to lose 59.99 or w/e the sale price is. With a moba, only a certain percentage actually pay for upgrades, and the incentive isn't as strong to steal a free product.
As long as SC2 doesn't have some sort of microtransaction model to justify the business expense of investing significant amounts into progaming, Blizzard will always be 3rd behind Riot and Valve for support. It just doesn't make sense to do the kind of support when sc2 esports revenue is pretty much negligible.
They don't have to release the sourcecode for LAN though, I'm pretty sure they could make a server just for major-premier events, and send 1 techguy to each event.
That, plus the much more important fact which is that in SC2 vs LoL, SC2 already has a 3rd party LAN, so there's very little danger even if the LAN mode does leak outside of the tournament scene.
There is no 3rd party LAN for LoL as far as I know, so overall it might be more damaging to them in my opinion if their LAN mode got leaked.
That said, the chance of it leaking is low if the proper security precautions are taken.
There won't be LAN because ESPORTS is a joke in Blizzard's list of priorities. We don't benefit them much at all and to be honest they'd rather have an amazing single player to sell to casuals more than anything.
On October 15 2012 05:12 Kennigit wrote: Of course piracy is a concern, but it's less of a concern when your game is a free to play game with microtransactions vs a 1 time purchase. If you "lose" the sale (yes this is debatable, whether the pirate would buy it in in the first place blah blah), you are guaranteed to lose 59.99 or w/e the sale price is. With a moba, only a certain percentage actually pay for upgrades, and the incentive isn't as strong to steal a free product.
As long as SC2 doesn't have some sort of microtransaction model to justify the business expense of investing significant amounts into progaming, Blizzard will always be 3rd behind Riot and Valve for support. It just doesn't make sense to do the kind of support when sc2 esports revenue is pretty much negligible.
They don't have to release the sourcecode for LAN though, I'm pretty sure they could make a server just for major-premier events, and send 1 techguy to each event.
That, plus the much more important fact which is that in SC2 vs LoL, SC2 already has a 3rd party LAN, so there's very little danger even if the LAN mode does leak outside of the tournament scene.
There is no 3rd party LAN for LoL as far as I know, so overall it might be more damaging to them in my opinion if their LAN mode got leaked.
That said, the chance of it leaking is low if the proper security precautions are taken.
Little danger? The moment Blizzard notices this LAN way is leaked you can bet your ass they will respond and hard. In case you didn't noticed. ALL your info is on their servers and they can simply lock you down completely with a press of the button. And if they do that and you complain and pirate it to play again you once again supported their piracy statement.
On October 14 2012 10:49 Nausea wrote: I think it has been pretty obvious in recent years that blizzard is mostly trying to break even until they release their next cash cow "Titan".
Just pushing out mediocre stuff to keep them at a stable course and then cash in on their new mmo, and repeat.
There will never be a LAN mode in any Blizzard releases ever again.
Yeah they totally delayed D3 so long to polish it up just so they can release a game that will generate enough income to continue working on Titan. The Blizzard hate these days is amusing.
On October 13 2012 08:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why do people keep making threads about things that have bee discussed to death multiple times?? Is it really that hard to not understand that piracy is the biggest reason??
I think Blizzard this fact (other game developers, software developers, etc.. have already done so):
if someone is a fan of something and doesn't have the money to pay for it, they will find a way to get it. True fans will eventually buy it when they can and the person that got it for the wrong reasons will step away from it because they do not enjoy it.
Im not going to lie, when this game first came out I torrented it because I had never heard of Starcraft before so I wanted to see what it was like. I loved it and bought the day after it came out. Wish I couldve did the same for d3 though >.< . Its not as bad as people think it is. Even music artist say the same thing. People will buy what they like, and the people who dont like it wont buy it. Simple.
Resume from replay? As in you have a replay that lasts for 9 minutes, a PvZ where an Immortal/sentry allin is coming, player disconnects, and they just start where they left off from within a replay?
Sounds amazing, both for tournys and for practice (sice you can just replay one deciding scenario over and oer and figure out what you did wrong).
On October 15 2012 10:00 DeCoup wrote: Halo4 to have LAN. Where's SC2s? Understand how silly this conversation is yet? You can't compare LoL and SC.
Why.
Stop making excuses for Blizzard, it's fucking pathetic. Blizzard must have the most apologists out of any games company around, a bunch of deluded fanbois that live in the yesteryears prior to the Activision acquisition where Blizzard could do no wrong. They are not the consumer-friendly champion of PC they used to be, they frequently make mistakes, anti-consumer decisions. Yes, they fuck up and they should be called on it.
If a fucking console game has LAN when the "premier" eSports title known as SC2 doesn't, then you should be embarrassed as a company. Don't ever expect your eSport to be taken seriously until you have a robust way to ensure that lag and disconnections do not compromise the integrity of your competition. SC2 remains a game that suffers from both of those problems and until they are resolved, I refuse to believe that Blizzard is actually, truly dedicated to eSports.
You can compare LoL and SC2, they are both online competitive multiplayer games that require an internet connection to play and operate on persistent online accounts. They are more similar to each other than they are to any other eSports title out there. If Riot are capable of putting together a tournament LAN client in a HANDFUL OF DAYS, responding to and solving a problem they created, then Blizzard should be more than capable of it to. You can mewl about KESPA all you please but at the end of the day there is nothing stopping Blizzard from creating a protected, tournament-authorized LAN version that they can retain control over. I'm past even caring about LAN mode in the game for everyone at this point, whatever, fine, don't put it in your game while others do, I'll call you a consumer-unfriendly DRM-obsessed corporation and I'll point to SC2 and Diablo 3 as my evidence, but at the very LEAST do something about a problem that has plagued your eSport for the past two years and has unquestionably, visibly done damage to it.
And they've already stated they're implementing resume from replay with HotS. what more do you want. Even LAN won't solve issues like a pc's netcard dying, but resume from replay will. can we stop this now? complain again if HotS delivers with out it k?
On October 15 2012 06:26 Xapti wrote: That, plus the much more important fact which is that in SC2 vs LoL, SC2 already has a 3rd party LAN, so there's very little danger even if the LAN mode does leak outside of the tournament scene.
There is no 3rd party LAN for LoL as far as I know, so overall it might be more damaging to them in my opinion if their LAN mode got leaked.
That said, the chance of it leaking is low if the proper security precautions are taken.
Little danger? The moment Blizzard notices this LAN way is leaked you can bet your ass they will respond and hard. In case you didn't noticed. ALL your info is on their servers and they can simply lock you down completely with a press of the button. And if they do that and you complain and pirate it to play again you once again supported their piracy statement.
What the heck? Did you not read my post AND not hear about 3rd party LAN, or what? That's the only way you could not understand a key thing: There already is LAN mode for Starcraft 2; its 3rd party (unofficial), and against the terms of use, but it's there (and has been for a long time), and it works well. "all my info" is meaningless — they have achievements and ladder rating, neither of which are extremely valuable. Sure, they can kick people off their own battle.net, but they can't stop people from playing on 3rd party LAN/battle.net servers. If a person was on 3rd party LAN, Blizzard can't kick them, and if Blizzard kicks someone from their battle.net, the person can just start playing 3rd party LAN instead, so your post makes no sense and has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
On October 15 2012 07:20 Serpico wrote: There won't be LAN because ESPORTS is a joke in Blizzard's list of priorities. We don't benefit them much at all and to be honest they'd rather have an amazing single player to sell to casuals more than anything.
except regardless of whether LAN exists or not casuals can pirate the single player campaign if they want to, and the people that work on LAN are not the same people who would work on the single player campaign so they aren't trade-able.
On October 15 2012 10:34 Kazeyonoma wrote: And they've already stated they're implementing resume from replay with HotS. what more do you want. Even LAN won't solve issues like a pc's netcard dying, but resume from replay will. can we stop this now? complain again if HotS delivers with out it k?
Yeah certainly. Now that they've finally come to their senses and are adding a long wanted and useful feature, it's really good, and LAN isn't as big of an issue. The fact is though that it still leaves a hole of having to have internet access to play any games of Starcraft 2 with friends, which isn't always easy even in cities (I know a regular/frequent public LAN party held at a major city university that has no internet access). So while it's very nice they're finally adding resume game feature, it doesn't mean LAN is useless. Aside from that, there's also the argument that since there's 3rd party LAN mode cracked already unofficially, why bother hiding it from users? (but that's not a concrete argument obviously, since one could make an accurate (in my opinion) analogy with like cocaine use or something)
On October 15 2012 10:34 Kazeyonoma wrote: And they've already stated they're implementing resume from replay with HotS. what more do you want. Even LAN won't solve issues like a pc's netcard dying, but resume from replay will. can we stop this now? complain again if HotS delivers with out it k?
What more do I want? How about having it now? How about not having to be screwed out of playing with someone right next to me with 150 ping because I have to connect to battle.net?
On October 15 2012 12:49 ETisME wrote: was trying to get my gf to watch sc2, and just so it happens that the WCS asia final was on. PvP lazer wars (can't see shit), connection drops.
GF laughed and went back to her internet browsing.
shit yea lan totally would have gained her attention. case in point.
^Definitely agree with TB's post there. Even if Blizzard cannot incorporate LAN into the consumer client, they should at least make a licensed tournament mode of some sort that would be used only for tournaments. (Maybe you'd have to log in to B-net first, I'm sure there are tonnes of possible solutions)
Don't see how hard it is to implement a tournament only lan.
Blizzard will need to confirm and send a code via internet to *authorize* the tournament version by request. Validation can even be time restricted (for the duration of days of the tournament, whatever). All computers in the tournament will have to be under this authorization code.
The codes will be one time use and blizzard can change codes each time for each tournament. Blizzard can also choose to distribute this to the organizations of their choosing ( limiting the number of tournament versions like the VIN number on a car)
So if the code does not match up with the copy of the tournament version, the game is unplayable.
On the subject of delay of click that pros playing and practicing online are facing and saying that in a lag free environment pros will play worse. The beauty is is you can just set the desired lag to a universally accepted number (that is every tournament has to set it to said amount)
Blizzard can also even charge for the damn codes, since this is meant for only corporation use.