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On September 12 2012 10:19 Sc2ggRise wrote:
whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before?
That's clearly a problem. Worth making a post on the bug reports forum at battle.net.
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United States12235 Posts
On September 12 2012 09:24 Duckiah wrote:=p
Hi. Just wanted to pop into the thread to say you're wrong. Actually you're so wrong that the systems designer emailed me out of the blue to tell me to mention that Lysenko is right.
I'll also be updating the Ladder Guide soon to reflect the new changes.
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On September 12 2012 10:41 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 10:03 skeldark wrote:
In theories, ladder points can now reflect direct your skill.
In practise they dont. My point in posting that was to emphasize that the division tiers that the announcement referred to were the division point offsets found in Diamond and below. The guy to whom I was responding didn't seem to think that such point offsets existed, and offered the example of Master league, where they never have. Regardless -- ladder points now reflect your MMR with an approximation that gets better the longer you play, and with a different point -> MMR relationship per division. Before, you would have had to know a hidden division tier to compare two active players in the same league. Now, assuming both players are active enough to use up their bonus points, you can just look at the numbers. It's a big improvement.
I agree.
btw the division tier is known by us. Thats most likely the reason they removed it.
As for Blizzard's statement, it's not a "lie," they're simply saying that on average your rank will reflect roughly how you stand in ladder points, NOT MMR.
Thats wrong.
Read it again. They say its shows when you get promoted (what is only mmr depending).
The Sentence just reflect their old lie, that the ladder shows your your skill.
They confirmed that the whole idea behind the system is to hide your skill.
Removing one of many lies dont make the system true.
Regardless, Excalibur_Z's comment reflects that it's an approximation,
Exactly. An approximation that is years away from the truth formated as statement.
I would call such a approximation a lie.
But this only reflect the different position Excalibur and i have on blizzard. ( Something we discussed in the past kind of often ^^)
I back-engenier a blizzard system and have to fix their bugs and their hiding functions.
He is a tl-admin who explain the system to community members and talk to blizzard officels and have a special rank on bnet forums.
Perhaps im to aggressive and he is to defends when it comes to this topic.
I still wait to see what data i get for the new season.
Im not sure they really remove tiers. Can be that they just try to hide them better.
All official announcement in the past over the ladder system was proven wrong.
So you must understand that i dont have much trust in this one.
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So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
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On September 12 2012 11:05 skeldark wrote:
Exactly. An approximation that is years away from the truth formated as statement.
My problem with calling these things "lies" is that I don't agree that there's intent to deceive.
My take on the issue is that they're writing these announcements to try to communicate ideas about a very complex system without going into a full explanation, not because they're trying to hide how it works, but just so that they don't turn off or confuse people who just won't follow the full explanation.
Does this result in occasional oversimplification or misstatement as they try to distill these concepts down into simple language? Yes. But seriously, look at how many people read Excalibur_Z's thread and come away with completely out of whack understandings of what they've seen there? A full, complete explanation isn't necessarily a cure for confusion.
All official announcement in the past over the ladder system was proven wrong.
Have you ever been involved in an event that got reported by a news organization? You'd have the same feeling reading an article like that. What seems likely to me is that those ladder system articles are being written by the community management staff after a (probably complete) discussion of what's happening with the designers. So, you have someone who is not an expert filtering and reinterpreting and redescribing what's going on, with a mixture of standard and nonstandard language.
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On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote:
So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
Yes. More clear but is does still not mean you are top 20% diamond!
But with this change i will be able to tell you your mmr even more accurate.
On September 12 2012 11:14 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 11:05 skeldark wrote:
Exactly. An approximation that is years away from the truth formated as statement. My problem with calling these things "lies" is that I don't agree that there's intent to deceive. My take on the issue is that they're writing these announcements to try to communicate ideas about a very complex system without going into a full explanation, not because they're trying to hide how it works, but just so that they don't turn off or confuse people who just won't follow the full explanation. Does this result in occasional oversimplification or misstatement as they try to distill these concepts down into simple language? Yes. But seriously, look at how many people read Excalibur_Z's thread and come away with completely out of whack understandings of what they've seen there? A full, complete explanation isn't necessarily a cure for confusion.
I can tell you because i have to work against many functions that do nothing less than hiding.
"With this new system its easier for you to see your progress. Also the position in your division, is closer to your overall ranking in your league now"
There is a diffrence between saying something simple and saying it wrong.
Have you ever been involved in an event that got reported by a news organization? You'd have the same feeling reading an article like that. What seems likely to me is that those ladder system articles are being written by the community management staff after a (probably complete) discussion of what's happening with the designers. So, you have someone who is not an expert filtering and reinterpreting and redescribing what's going on, with a mixture of standard and nonstandard language.
Exactly. I total agree. No programmer who wrote such an algorithm would ever explain him so wrong.
Thats why i think that the guys who write the announcement dont even know what they talking about.
Thats why i dont put much trust in them.
When i say lie , i dont want to say: "they betray us" i just say: "they dont tell the truth"
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I hate the entire 1v1 map pool except daybreak. Fuck this.
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On September 12 2012 11:14 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote:
So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions? Yes. More clear but is does still not mean you are top 20% diamond! But with this change i will be able to tell you your mmr even more accurate.
Thanks mate, great to hear tiers/divisons removed.
So how exactly will you tell me my MMR? :O
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On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote:
So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
I wouldn't agree that being "ranked 20" will be more meaningful, but given your point score vs. someone else's, the one with the higher point score will usually be the one with the higher MMR, IF you've both used all your bonus points.
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On September 12 2012 11:18 dynwar7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 11:14 skeldark wrote:On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote:
So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions? Yes. More clear but is does still not mean you are top 20% diamond! But with this change i will be able to tell you your mmr even more accurate. Thanks mate, great to hear tiers/divisons removed. So how exactly will you tell me my MMR? :O
Sorry i thought thats known by now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334561
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I'm forever platinum, but honestly I could care less. I'm a random player so I don't expect to get diamond any time soon. Especially when I spend 90% of my gaming time playing GW2.
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On September 12 2012 10:56 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 09:24 Duckiah wrote:we'll see once the ladder gets going =p Hi. Just wanted to pop into the thread to say you're wrong. Actually you're so wrong that the systems designer emailed me out of the blue to tell me to mention that Lysenko is right. I'll also be updating the Ladder Guide soon to reflect the new changes.
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/78/Trollface.svg/200px-Trollface.svg.png)
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 12 2012 10:43 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 10:19 Sc2ggRise wrote:
whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before? That's clearly a problem. Worth making a post on the bug reports forum at battle.net.
I have also been having this problem.
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Was platinum in beta when it was the highest league. Was diamond in retail when it was the highest, and there I stayed every season until this one... Platinum again! I've come full circle. I'm really not as good at RTS as I used to be >_<
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On September 12 2012 12:50 SoleSteeler wrote:
Was platinum in beta when it was the highest league. Was diamond in retail when it was the highest, and there I stayed every season until this one... Platinum again! I've come full circle. I'm really not as good at RTS as I used to be >_<
Dont forget, everyone get better.
To rise you have to get faster better than the others
To fall you just have to stay stable.
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I can proudly say that since I bought the game one year and a half ago, I'm a proud platinum player. I suppose this means I'm improving as fast as the average player is doing.
And this is so true, I have watched some of my very first replays. And I played so awful... holy crap.
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The map pool really is getting stale -_-
c'mon Blizzard you were doing good, don't kill the momentum. Though the removal of rocks on Tal'darim may sway me enough to get it off the veto list. I think Musphelheim might be a good addition to the pool.
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Wish Tal Darim was gone -_-
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On September 12 2012 12:25 Dman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 10:43 Lysenko wrote:On September 12 2012 10:19 Sc2ggRise wrote:
whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before? That's clearly a problem. Worth making a post on the bug reports forum at battle.net. I have also been having this problem.
I'm having the problem as well. My 4's and 3's random team placement matches went fine, but in 2's I've now played two placement matches, still says I have one placement match to go. Going to post in bnet forums about it right now if not reported already.
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EPT
