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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:13 Chicken Chaser wrote: Yup. They removed the rocks at the 3rd for Taldarim Altar, but I think that's it. One more nerf to Terran imo lol. Luckily that map is falling out of favor. | ||
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Duckiah
6 Posts
Apologies to anyone who did explain it right. For example, 1300 pts in one division might have corresponded to 1200 points in another division, in the old system. In the new, 1300 points means the same thing in all divisions in a given league. You still cannot compare across leagues. That's not how it works. The points aren't affected at all, they never were. In the old system a 1.3k player in 1 division was equal to a 1.3k player in an easier division. If you have equal amounts of points to someone then you're equal to that player regardless of the division or if the tiers were implemented. The difference was in rank, in masters it's -really- obvious because you'd basically have divisions which were completely stacked full of amazing players all with a crap ton of points and even hitting the top 8 in them was a struggle. Other times you'd have master league divisions where the guy at #1 didn't even have more points than a random player in the top10-20 of a "hard" division. Was it fair that a player like that is displayed as being "#1 masters" when there's plenty of others who aren't even in the top 8 in their respective divisions? Nope, that's why the tier system is being removed. He was only #1 because when he was seeded into a division he got seeded into a "easy" division. Now there won't be such thing as an "easy" division, he wasn't close to GM at all. Instead now they'll all be equal. If you're #8 in a divison the chances are most of the guys at #8 in the other divisions are going to have roughly the same amount of points as you. There won't be people who are 1.5k at #8 and others who are at 1k at #8 anymore. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
 Oh blizzy. | ||
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seansye
United States1722 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On September 12 2012 08:17 Duckiah wrote: That's not how it works. The points aren't affected at all, they never were. In the old system a 1.3k player in 1 division was equal to a 1.3k player in an easier division. If you have equal amounts of points to someone then you're equal to that player regardless of the division or if the tiers were implemented. What? No, that's not how it worked at all. A given point score corresponded to a different MMR in two divisions in different tiers. Here's the explanation from Excalibur_Z's sticky thread. Division Tiers When you are placed in a league, you are placed into a division within that league. That division consists of up to 100 players who are intended to be roughly the same skill level as of the time of placement. However, because the ladder population is broken down into quintiles (with the exception of Master league which siphons a percentage from Diamond), certain leagues encompass a broader range of skill than others. For example, a player who is ranked in the top 5% may be vastly better than a player who is ranked in the top 15%, and a player in the bottom 15% may be far better than a player in the bottom 5%. This means that divisions are not always equal in each league, which means the points earned in each division cannot always be directly compared with points in other divisions. Grandmaster: One Tier Master: One Tier Diamond: 7 Tiers - Tier 1: +150 from Master - Tier 2: +213 from Master - Tier 3: +276 from Master - Tier 4: +339 from Master - Tier 5: +402 from Master - Tier 6: +465 from Master - Tier 7: +528 from Master Platinum: 3 Tiers, unknown offset Gold: 2 Tiers, unknown offset Silver: 3 Tiers, unknown offset per tier Bronze: 7 Tiers, unknown point offset per tier Anyway, it sounds like your understanding was not accurate. | ||
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Duckiah
6 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On September 12 2012 08:22 Duckiah wrote: My god. No, it didn't. Read my edit. Also, Master league did not have multiple division tiers at all, so anything you're inferring from that has nothing to do with the removal of division tiers. The change only affected Diamond and lower. Edit: I should also point out that because the removal of division tiers doesn't change Master league at all, it will not have the effect that you are describing. There will still be variation between divisions because they are filled on a first-come first-served basis and you'll get clumps of good players in certain divisions and lesser players in other ones. | ||
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Immutant
Singapore201 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + parody | ||
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Duckiah
6 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On September 12 2012 08:36 Duckiah wrote: I am sceptical about -alot- of that information, but we'll see once the ladder gets going =p Excalibur_Z has contacts on the battle.net design team who have helped him fact-check everything in that thread. If it's not stated as speculation, it's probably been confirmed by now by a designer or someone speaking for one. | ||
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Duckiah
6 Posts
we'll see once the ladder gets going =p | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
Got placed in Bronze against after I won my placement match(was expected), and went on to winning the next 8 games and got promoted. Not sure if that was because of the new system they set up or not. Either way, I'm happy. | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On September 12 2012 08:40 Lysenko wrote: Excalibur_Z has contacts on the battle.net design team who have helped him fact-check everything in that thread. If it's not stated as speculation, it's probably been confirmed by now by a designer or someone speaking for one. Excaliburs_Z guid is correct. However it is only explaining the basics about the ladder system. The more complex parts, inside the system are not covered. The Diamond Tier numbers are outdated and not accurate. We have more accurate numbers by now. The blizzard announcement is a lie. Excalibur is right that in special situations the announcement is correct. However this situations are so special, that they never occured for a single player since the release of sc2... So i call it a lie, Excalibur calls it "not 100% accurate". They removed one function that they used to hide your real skill. There are still many others. In theories, ladder points can now reflect direct your skill. In practise they dont. | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
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ritzia1
Canada95 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:58 virpi wrote: they really need to update the 1v1 map pool more frequently. which tournaments are still using shakuras? and that stupid thing called condemned ridge is also still in... yes, many people in here are right...WHY.... Gonna mention this again, but pretty sure the reason why Shakuras/TA are still in the map pool is because it's still used in the WCS in which arguably is one of the most important tournaments this year. I'm quite confident that both will be gone after WCS since the tournament uses ladder maps. For now people should just relax about it. | ||
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Lolhippos
United States8 Posts
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Sc2ggRise
United States607 Posts
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before? | ||
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RivalryRedux
United States173 Posts
On September 12 2012 08:36 Duckiah wrote: I am sceptical about alot of that information, but we'll see once the ladder gets going =p It might seem like it doesn't make sense now but before masters league came in to play it was pretty obvious. Blizz would put out top 200 MMR lists and when you would compare them vs SC2Ranks it would be quite apparent that all players in certain divisions would have a much higher point value than where they stood on Blizzards MMR list. It was also really obvious if you were in a higher tier division because you would get +10/-14 for people who would have 100+ points more than you when you factor out bonus pool on a consistent basis. Not having tiers in Masters league was also one of the main things people were exited for when it came out. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16117 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On September 12 2012 10:03 skeldark wrote: In theories, ladder points can now reflect direct your skill. In practise they dont. My point in posting that was to emphasize that the division tiers that the announcement referred to were the division point offsets found in Diamond and below. The guy to whom I was responding didn't seem to think that such point offsets existed, and offered the example of Master league, where they never have. Regardless -- ladder points now reflect your MMR with an approximation that gets better the longer you play, and with a different point -> MMR relationship per division. Before, you would have had to know a hidden division tier to compare two active players in the same league. Now, assuming both players are active enough to use up their bonus points, you can just look at the numbers. It's a big improvement. As for Blizzard's statement, it's not a "lie," they're simply saying that on average your rank will reflect roughly how you stand in ladder points, NOT MMR. Regardless, Excalibur_Z's comment reflects that it's an approximation, a fact that they didn't make explicitly clear in their announcement (but which I think everyone should assume is the case unless specifically told otherwise.) | ||
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