There was no downtime nor was there a patch download, just seems to be minor tweaks to map pools which you will download upon queuing. Yes they added old maps back to the 3's and 4's
I wish you all great games and goodluck, sorry in advance for the lack of general content in the OP.
I have looked on blizzard for an offical statement and didn't find one, mods please edit when they post, currently playing
This is on the NA server.
Via in game general info
2012 Season 4
September 11th - November 1st Grandmaster start: September 18th Season Lock: October 25th
Map pools 1v1 Cloud Kingdom LE, Daybreak LE, Ohana LE, Antiga Shipyard, Condemned Ridge, Entombed Valley, Shakuras Plateau, Tal'darim Altar LE
2v2 Desolate Stronghold, Lunar Colony V, Molten Crater, Scorched Haven, The Ruins Of Tarsonis, Tyrador Keep, Magma Core, The Boneyard
3v3 Cinder Fortress, Dig Site, Green Acres, Monsoon, Silent Dunes, Temple of the Preservers, The Bio Lab, Ulaan Deeps
4v4 Deadlock Ridge, District 10, Fossil Quarry, High Ground, Lava Flow, Megaton, Outpost, Sand Canyon
On September 12 2012 01:26 Anta wrote: the EU login screen shows a breaking news which says that the usual maintenance will take place tonight between 3pm and 5pm.
Me too guys... I just started playing again. About 100 games in the last 3 days or so, but since the season was locked I was stuck in Plat, while playing masters players lol. Hopefully I get bumped up to diamond at least haha.
On September 12 2012 01:26 Anta wrote: the EU login screen shows a breaking news which says that the usual maintenance will take place tonight between 3pm and 5pm.
Still fighting to get my skill back after a ~year break, but unless the new system is buggy it shows how completely fucking retarded the old one was. Cause I played plat/diamond players (I was in gold) during the lock, and after my first game (win) this season I was placed at the fucking bottom of gold lol
On September 12 2012 01:39 Quadron wrote: Me too guys... I just started playing again. About 100 games in the last 3 days or so, but since the season was locked I was stuck in Plat, while playing masters players lol. Hopefully I get bumped up to diamond at least haha.
I'm sure the masters players are loving that! lol
If you really want to know how to annoy masters players, at the beginning of the game ask them what league they are. There's nothing more annoying to a masters player than to realize their MMR is so low theyre playing diamonds.
this is just speculation and from my understanding, your MMR was pretty much put into "tiers" of leagues last season, so you wouldn't know which tier you were in unless you actively followed your rating.
Now that all leagues are even you will now know where you are among your respective league and if you are close to the top this season you are probably pretty close to a promotion.
Last season you could have been rank 3 in your diamond division, but you may have been in the 3rd or 4th hidden tier, so in reality you are not close to a promotion.
WOW!!!! Well done to blizzard for leaving tal darim, shakuras and condemned ridge in the map pool....amazing. Can't even comprehend the thought process for leaving those maps in.
Points are pretty much completely arbitrary (especially with system change) until a week or two has passed. There is no point bragging about being rank 10 or complaining about being rank 50 when literally half the division hasnt played a game yet, things need time to normalise
On September 12 2012 02:11 Fusa wrote: this is just speculation and from my understanding, your MMR was pretty much put into "tiers" of leagues last season, so you wouldn't know which tier you were in unless you actively followed your rating.
Now that all leagues are even you will now know where you are among your respective league and if you are close to the top this season you are probably pretty close to a promotion.
Last season you could have been rank 3 in your diamond division, but you may have been in the 3rd or 4th hidden tier, so in reality you are not close to a promotion.
taldarim ,shakuras and antiga really need to get thrown out of the map pool for good Also yyyyyy isn t blizzard admitting that close spawns on their maps are a terrible idea and disable them?!
edit: condemned ridge omg.....this one too makes me just sad panda
On September 12 2012 02:30 tar wrote: taldarim ,shakuras and antiga really need to get thrown out of the map pool for good Also yyyyyy isn t blizzard admitting that close spawns on their maps are a terrible idea and disable them?!
edit: condemned ridge omg.....this one too makes me just sad panda
would have been nice to get shakuras replaced with one of the new gsl maps or metropolis (with fixed fps of course). metro is not the greatest map, but its a change, and its one of the maps where you can have a ridiculous split map late late macro game; adds more variety to the map pool
Acctually looking forward to this season a lot more then others, deffinatly going for first place in my division for Diamond and possibily go for Masters but I really don't have the abbility to play that much so I'll gun for Masters by 2013.
On September 12 2012 03:29 Lemonayd wrote: Beat a masters for my placement match and I get rank 20 diamond still. Ladder still makes little sense.
It makes perfectly sense since you haven't showed that you are capable of constantly winning against Master players. It would be pretty ridiculous if everyone who beat a GM player got placed in GM.
On September 12 2012 01:11 Fusa wrote: There was no downtime nor was there a patch download, just seems to be minor tweaks to map pools which you will download upon queuing. Yes they added old maps back to the 3's and 4's
I wish you all great games and goodluck, sorry in advance for the lack of general content in the OP.
I have looked on blizzard for an offical statement and didn't find one, mods please edit when they post, currently playing
This is on the NA server.
Via in game general info
2012 Season 4
September 11th - November 1st Grandmaster start: September 18th Season Lock: October 25th
Map pools 1v1 Cloud Kingdom LE, Daybreak LE, Ohana LE, Antiga Shipyard, Condemned Ridge, Entombed Valley, Shakuras Plateau, Tal'darim Altar LE
2v2 Desolate Stronghold, Lunar Colony V, Molten Crater, Scorched Haven, The Ruins Of Tarsonis, Tyrador Keep, Magma Core, The Boneyard
3v3 Cinder Fortress, Dig Site, Green Acres, Monsoon, Silent Dunes, Temple of the Preservers, The Bio Lab, Ulaan Deeps
4v4 Deadlock Ridge, District 10, Fossil Quarry, High Ground, Lava Flow, Megaton, Outpost, Sand Canyon
On September 12 2012 02:36 SupLilSon wrote: Map pool unchanged except rocks at TDA third? Cool... They could have at least given us Metropolis back... what the eff Blizz?
Metropolis has sort of shown itself to be a fairly bad map balance wise and also has a tendancy to force fairly stale late games.
On September 12 2012 02:59 Pookie Monster wrote: Woooo hoo new season, time to face CHEESE again until i get back into high masters.
cheese and outdated builds that meta the fuck out of you. Fucking despise ladder reset
Yeah nothing worse than losing to some three barracks marine/scv allin that you thought was a 1 rax FE, zergs doing weird shit like one base roach into one base mutas and then expoin across the map , Toss doing 4 gate and void ray all ins. lol its gonna be fun.
I think the arcade patch thing has made it so easy for blizzard to update the ladder and such. I really like that the ladder isnt interrupted during the patching of a new laddering and also introducing new maps as well as taking out old ones.
On September 12 2012 02:59 Pookie Monster wrote: Woooo hoo new season, time to face CHEESE again until i get back into high masters.
cheese and outdated builds that meta the fuck out of you. Fucking despise ladder reset
Yeah nothing worse than losing to some three barracks marine/scv allin that you thought was a 1 rax FE, zergs doing weird shit like one base roach into one base mutas and then expoin across the map , Toss doing 4 gate and void ray all ins. lol its gonna be fun.
Of course it's gonna be fun. Cheese make us stronger and better :D
On September 12 2012 02:36 SupLilSon wrote: Map pool unchanged except rocks at TDA third? Cool... They could have at least given us Metropolis back... what the eff Blizz?
Metropolis has sort of shown itself to be a fairly bad map balance wise and also has a tendancy to force fairly stale late games.
I'm Terran so I like it, and it's nomt like it would be the worst of the maps. I just want something else, I hate condemned and every other map is getting really old.
On September 12 2012 02:59 Pookie Monster wrote: Woooo hoo new season, time to face CHEESE again until i get back into high masters.
cheese and outdated builds that meta the fuck out of you. Fucking despise ladder reset
Yeah nothing worse than losing to some three barracks marine/scv allin that you thought was a 1 rax FE, zergs doing weird shit like one base roach into one base mutas and then expoin across the map , Toss doing 4 gate and void ray all ins. lol its gonna be fun.
Of course it's gonna be fun. Cheese make us stronger and better :D
yes it does it. actually reminds you of why your build is what it is and improves your scouting.
Was a former 1,000 point top silver that settled down at around 930 points at the season's end, in the top 100 silvers on the AM server (when I was in between the two at ~960). Played a game excited to finally get that promotion into gold.
Placed into low silver when I was playing and beating top golds/mid plats. Makes sense yo.
Edit - After playing 5 more ladder matches I was placed into top gold. Now at least I feel a little better.
On September 12 2012 03:29 Lemonayd wrote: Beat a masters for my placement match and I get rank 20 diamond still. Ladder still makes little sense.
On September 12 2012 04:17 CougarsGonnaCoug wrote: Was a former 1,000 point top silver that settled down at around 930 points at the season's end, in the top 100 silvers on the AM server (when I was in between the two at ~960). Played a game excited to finally get that promotion into gold.
Placed into low silver when I was playing and beating top golds/mid plats. Makes sense yo.
You guys should stop looking for mistakes somewhere else, then maybe, eventually you will figure out that it's all your fault that you don't get promoted. If you can't admit that you're bad in sc2, you will forever remain bad.
I really hope to get Masters this Season. Started in Bronze back in January this year and advanced in every season. Now I'm top 16ish Diamond and really excited to play a ton this season!
On September 12 2012 04:49 discator wrote: I really hope to get Masters this Season. Started in Bronze back in January this year and advanced in every season. Now I'm top 16ish Diamond and really excited to play a ton this season!
Good luck have fun you all!
I really hope I get Masters this Season as well. I started 2010 S1 in Bronze but ended in Gold. Then I went Platinum, then Diamond for the next..67 seasons? Iunno. Maybe I don't play enough, but I've been queue'd against rank 20~masters and top 8 diamonds for the longest while.. T_T
played 2 placement matches after it said i need to play 1 and still havent been placed, this is in 2v2 with a team not random, not sure whats going on here but curious if its just me. WE played plenty last season so its not that we need 5, as i said it told me i only have 1 remaining placement both before and after the 2 placement games i played.
they really need to update the 1v1 map pool more frequently. which tournaments are still using shakuras? and that stupid thing called condemned ridge is also still in...
So I am not sure I understand this at all, Blizzard says that you can see what percentage you are in your league based on what number you are, yet the point system remains? how does it show your *true skill* this way? maybe I just don't get it???
On September 12 2012 06:42 xSixYoni wrote: So I am not sure I understand this at all, Blizzard says that you can see what percentage you are in your league based on what number you are, yet the point system remains? how does it show your *true skill* this way? maybe I just don't get it???
What do you suggest in order to have people gain or lose a rank? It should be transparent, and the point system is fair. You're rank 3 and have 1200 points? Ok, I have 1201 points, so I should be rank 2. Points are just an indicator how far you're from the next rank. If they omit them, then there's no way to know from a player's view.
On September 12 2012 06:19 An2quamaraN wrote: Ok, so still there is no Metropolis, which was promised to be back around 3 months ago, and Shakuras and Taldarim is still there? F*** you Blizzard
Say what ? , where blizzard promised that they will add Metropolis to map pool ? You have 3 vetos...its that hard to vote out maps that you dont like.. ? omg
On September 12 2012 06:42 xSixYoni wrote: So I am not sure I understand this at all, Blizzard says that you can see what percentage you are in your league based on what number you are, yet the point system remains? how does it show your *true skill* this way? maybe I just don't get it???
Its way more simple. Its a lie! Like before points are meaningless. But we are able to calculate mmr more accurate.
Yup, played 10 games today. 8 were cheese (2 gate proxy in PvP, cannon rush in PvP, a 6pool, a roach/ling allin that broke my brain because he expanded then never used the expansion even to support his all-in, proxy 2 rax bunker rush that I barely didn't hold, 3 rax marine/marauder/SCV all-in, etc.). I'm pretty sure I was tilted after the second cheese because I kinda threw away the rest of the games. Don't really care. Now I remember why I never play on the day of or a couple days following the ladder reset.
On September 12 2012 06:42 xSixYoni wrote: So I am not sure I understand this at all, Blizzard says that you can see what percentage you are in your league based on what number you are, yet the point system remains? how does it show your *true skill* this way? maybe I just don't get it???
Their statement wasn't meant to imply that you could see what percentile you were in terms of MMR. What it meant was that you could compare point values and rankings between any two divisions in a league and be on the same baseline.
For example, 1300 pts in one division might have corresponded to 1200 points in another division, in the old system. In the new, 1300 points means the same thing in all divisions in a given league. You still cannot compare across leagues.
So no, being rank 2 doesn't mean 98th percentile among all MMRs of everyone in your league. What it does mean is that you're at 98th percentile for points including bonus pool. If every player used up all their bonus points, being rank 2 actually would come pretty close to being 98th percentile in MMR, on average.
At least now, if two gold league players in different divisions want to compare their performance, and both play enough to use up their bonus pool, they can look at their relative point scores and see how close or far their MMRs are from each other, because point scores converge on MMR.
So happy for this...now I get to tank my account into silver and troll people with cannons and carriers :D So good news for you diamond people in whatever division im in (lol) you can have my spot in masters.
I am assuming gold minerals are still in the game too?
On September 12 2012 04:17 CougarsGonnaCoug wrote: Was a former 1,000 point top silver that settled down at around 930 points at the season's end, in the top 100 silvers on the AM server (when I was in between the two at ~960). Played a game excited to finally get that promotion into gold.
Placed into low silver when I was playing and beating top golds/mid plats. Makes sense yo.
You guys should stop looking for mistakes somewhere else, then maybe, eventually you will figure out that it's all your fault that you don't get promoted. If you can't admit that you're bad in sc2, you will forever remain bad.
To Cougars: Silver league had a number of division tiers under the old system, which meant that a score of 930 at the end of the season might have corresponded to someone else's 600 depending on what tier you were in. Also, everyone places "low" in their division in a new season -- after their placement, they're basically randomly ordered from 1 to 100 until people start playing a lot and their points converge on their MMR.
To ZwuckeL: It's possible (maybe Excalibur_Z can get an answer on this?) that in removing tiers in lower divisions they altered the degree of league overlap or the overall league boundaries. That might cause someone to place into an unexpected league.
Over the past few seasons I've now slipped from Platinum to Silver, while my play has generally improved (looking at objective metrics from tools like sc2gears), so I'd guess that there's a bigger shift going on, probably lower league or more casual players dropping out entirely.
Edit:
(I was promoted back to Gold after maybe 10 games, so I wouldn't want to extrapolate too much from my experience.)
So happy for this...now I get to tank my account into silver and troll people with cannons and carriers :D So good news for you diamond people in whatever division im in (lol) you can have my spot in masters.
I wonder if there are enough people doing this to affect the integrity of ladder rankings? I'm not entirely sure what the effect on the people around them would be -- the games won to people who just leave while on the way down might cancel out the games they win with cannons and carriers, though since those games won and lost are uncorrelated with the other player's skill, it might just have the effect of adding random noise to everyone else's ratings.
Two of the first three games I played were people beating me with exactly the same aggressive early push, timed almost to the second, when I hadn't seen that particular opening more than once or twice in the last 200 games. (I almost never see well-timed anything at my level.) One of those guys had placed into bronze this season. I'm guessing a lot of people have had the idea to tank their ratings and troll people.
It seems to me that blizzard are making consistently bad decisions and the community is now responding fairly angrily. Its quite silly that the map pool is still the same. No one is going to play taldarim anymore despite the rocks anyway...so why don't they remove it? sounds like common sense to me but maybe not to blizzard for some reason
Oh god Im hearing so much about how players are but in a league lower than they were before! ;O I was hoping alot to get into Masters this season! Im at diamond rank 1 at 1049pts which was rank 40 of all diamonds in Europe! Hope I get to Masters anyway
Jesus, I've read so many explanations on how the tiers work and so many are wrong.
Apologies to anyone who did explain it right.
For example, 1300 pts in one division might have corresponded to 1200 points in another division, in the old system. In the new, 1300 points means the same thing in all divisions in a given league. You still cannot compare across leagues.
That's not how it works. The points aren't affected at all, they never were. In the old system a 1.3k player in 1 division was equal to a 1.3k player in an easier division. If you have equal amounts of points to someone then you're equal to that player regardless of the division or if the tiers were implemented.
The difference was in rank, in masters it's -really- obvious because you'd basically have divisions which were completely stacked full of amazing players all with a crap ton of points and even hitting the top 8 in them was a struggle. Other times you'd have master league divisions where the guy at #1 didn't even have more points than a random player in the top10-20 of a "hard" division.
Was it fair that a player like that is displayed as being "#1 masters" when there's plenty of others who aren't even in the top 8 in their respective divisions? Nope, that's why the tier system is being removed. He was only #1 because when he was seeded into a division he got seeded into a "easy" division. Now there won't be such thing as an "easy" division, he wasn't close to GM at all. Instead now they'll all be equal. If you're #8 in a divison the chances are most of the guys at #8 in the other divisions are going to have roughly the same amount of points as you. There won't be people who are 1.5k at #8 and others who are at 1k at #8 anymore.
On September 12 2012 08:17 Duckiah wrote: That's not how it works. The points aren't affected at all, they never were. In the old system a 1.3k player in 1 division was equal to a 1.3k player in an easier division. If you have equal amounts of points to someone then you're equal to that player regardless of the division or if the tiers were implemented.
What? No, that's not how it worked at all. A given point score corresponded to a different MMR in two divisions in different tiers.
Here's the explanation from Excalibur_Z's sticky thread.
Division Tiers When you are placed in a league, you are placed into a division within that league. That division consists of up to 100 players who are intended to be roughly the same skill level as of the time of placement.
However, because the ladder population is broken down into quintiles (with the exception of Master league which siphons a percentage from Diamond), certain leagues encompass a broader range of skill than others. For example, a player who is ranked in the top 5% may be vastly better than a player who is ranked in the top 15%, and a player in the bottom 15% may be far better than a player in the bottom 5%. This means that divisions are not always equal in each league, which means the points earned in each division cannot always be directly compared with points in other divisions.
Grandmaster: One Tier Master: One Tier Diamond: 7 Tiers - Tier 1: +150 from Master - Tier 2: +213 from Master - Tier 3: +276 from Master - Tier 4: +339 from Master - Tier 5: +402 from Master - Tier 6: +465 from Master - Tier 7: +528 from Master Platinum: 3 Tiers, unknown offset Gold: 2 Tiers, unknown offset Silver: 3 Tiers, unknown offset per tier Bronze: 7 Tiers, unknown point offset per tier
Anyway, it sounds like your understanding was not accurate.
On September 12 2012 08:22 Duckiah wrote: My god. No, it didn't.
Read my edit.
Also, Master league did not have multiple division tiers at all, so anything you're inferring from that has nothing to do with the removal of division tiers. The change only affected Diamond and lower.
Edit: I should also point out that because the removal of division tiers doesn't change Master league at all, it will not have the effect that you are describing. There will still be variation between divisions because they are filled on a first-come first-served basis and you'll get clumps of good players in certain divisions and lesser players in other ones.
Oh man last season I was in low silver losing to low bronze all the time! I was so looking forward to my demotion this season. Now they decided to promote me to top gold after my placement match! Whatever should I do?? Thanks Blizz.
On September 12 2012 08:36 Duckiah wrote: I am sceptical about -alot- of that information, but we'll see once the ladder gets going =p
Excalibur_Z has contacts on the battle.net design team who have helped him fact-check everything in that thread. If it's not stated as speculation, it's probably been confirmed by now by a designer or someone speaking for one.
Well I took a break last season to strictly play customs to get my skill up. Got placed in Bronze against after I won my placement match(was expected), and went on to winning the next 8 games and got promoted. Not sure if that was because of the new system they set up or not. Either way, I'm happy.
On September 12 2012 08:36 Duckiah wrote: I am sceptical about -alot- of that information, but we'll see once the ladder gets going =p
Excalibur_Z has contacts on the battle.net design team who have helped him fact-check everything in that thread. If it's not stated as speculation, it's probably been confirmed by now by a designer or someone speaking for one.
Excaliburs_Z guid is correct. However it is only explaining the basics about the ladder system. The more complex parts, inside the system are not covered. The Diamond Tier numbers are outdated and not accurate. We have more accurate numbers by now.
The blizzard announcement is a lie. Excalibur is right that in special situations the announcement is correct. However this situations are so special, that they never occured for a single player since the release of sc2... So i call it a lie, Excalibur calls it "not 100% accurate". They removed one function that they used to hide your real skill. There are still many others.
In theories, ladder points can now reflect direct your skill. In practise they dont.
On September 12 2012 05:58 virpi wrote: they really need to update the 1v1 map pool more frequently. which tournaments are still using shakuras? and that stupid thing called condemned ridge is also still in...
yes, many people in here are right...WHY....
Gonna mention this again, but pretty sure the reason why Shakuras/TA are still in the map pool is because it's still used in the WCS in which arguably is one of the most important tournaments this year. I'm quite confident that both will be gone after WCS since the tournament uses ladder maps. For now people should just relax about it.
was promoted to diamond 3 day before lock started getting screwed big losing streak but then coming back to go mainly positive beating dia's consistently barely any plats. top 50 in ladder. Got placed in plat this season.
whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before?
On September 12 2012 08:36 Duckiah wrote: I am sceptical about alot of that information, but we'll see once the ladder gets going =p
It might seem like it doesn't make sense now but before masters league came in to play it was pretty obvious. Blizz would put out top 200 MMR lists and when you would compare them vs SC2Ranks it would be quite apparent that all players in certain divisions would have a much higher point value than where they stood on Blizzards MMR list. It was also really obvious if you were in a higher tier division because you would get +10/-14 for people who would have 100+ points more than you when you factor out bonus pool on a consistent basis. Not having tiers in Masters league was also one of the main things people were exited for when it came out.
On September 12 2012 10:03 skeldark wrote: In theories, ladder points can now reflect direct your skill. In practise they dont.
My point in posting that was to emphasize that the division tiers that the announcement referred to were the division point offsets found in Diamond and below. The guy to whom I was responding didn't seem to think that such point offsets existed, and offered the example of Master league, where they never have.
Regardless -- ladder points now reflect your MMR with an approximation that gets better the longer you play, and with a different point -> MMR relationship per division. Before, you would have had to know a hidden division tier to compare two active players in the same league. Now, assuming both players are active enough to use up their bonus points, you can just look at the numbers. It's a big improvement.
As for Blizzard's statement, it's not a "lie," they're simply saying that on average your rank will reflect roughly how you stand in ladder points, NOT MMR.
Regardless, Excalibur_Z's comment reflects that it's an approximation, a fact that they didn't make explicitly clear in their announcement (but which I think everyone should assume is the case unless specifically told otherwise.)
On September 12 2012 10:19 Sc2ggRise wrote: whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before?
That's clearly a problem. Worth making a post on the bug reports forum at battle.net.
Hi. Just wanted to pop into the thread to say you're wrong. Actually you're so wrong that the systems designer emailed me out of the blue to tell me to mention that Lysenko is right.
I'll also be updating the Ladder Guide soon to reflect the new changes.
On September 12 2012 10:03 skeldark wrote: In theories, ladder points can now reflect direct your skill. In practise they dont.
My point in posting that was to emphasize that the division tiers that the announcement referred to were the division point offsets found in Diamond and below. The guy to whom I was responding didn't seem to think that such point offsets existed, and offered the example of Master league, where they never have.
Regardless -- ladder points now reflect your MMR with an approximation that gets better the longer you play, and with a different point -> MMR relationship per division. Before, you would have had to know a hidden division tier to compare two active players in the same league. Now, assuming both players are active enough to use up their bonus points, you can just look at the numbers. It's a big improvement.
I agree. btw the division tier is known by us. Thats most likely the reason they removed it.
As for Blizzard's statement, it's not a "lie," they're simply saying that on average your rank will reflect roughly how you stand in ladder points, NOT MMR.
Thats wrong. Read it again. They say its shows when you get promoted (what is only mmr depending). The Sentence just reflect their old lie, that the ladder shows your your skill. They confirmed that the whole idea behind the system is to hide your skill. Removing one of many lies dont make the system true.
Regardless, Excalibur_Z's comment reflects that it's an approximation,
Exactly. An approximation that is years away from the truth formated as statement. I would call such a approximation a lie. But this only reflect the different position Excalibur and i have on blizzard. ( Something we discussed in the past kind of often ^^) I back-engenier a blizzard system and have to fix their bugs and their hiding functions. He is a tl-admin who explain the system to community members and talk to blizzard officels and have a special rank on bnet forums. Perhaps im to aggressive and he is to defends when it comes to this topic.
I still wait to see what data i get for the new season. Im not sure they really remove tiers. Can be that they just try to hide them better. All official announcement in the past over the ladder system was proven wrong. So you must understand that i dont have much trust in this one.
So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
On September 12 2012 11:05 skeldark wrote: Exactly. An approximation that is years away from the truth formated as statement.
My problem with calling these things "lies" is that I don't agree that there's intent to deceive.
My take on the issue is that they're writing these announcements to try to communicate ideas about a very complex system without going into a full explanation, not because they're trying to hide how it works, but just so that they don't turn off or confuse people who just won't follow the full explanation.
Does this result in occasional oversimplification or misstatement as they try to distill these concepts down into simple language? Yes. But seriously, look at how many people read Excalibur_Z's thread and come away with completely out of whack understandings of what they've seen there? A full, complete explanation isn't necessarily a cure for confusion.
All official announcement in the past over the ladder system was proven wrong.
Have you ever been involved in an event that got reported by a news organization? You'd have the same feeling reading an article like that. What seems likely to me is that those ladder system articles are being written by the community management staff after a (probably complete) discussion of what's happening with the designers. So, you have someone who is not an expert filtering and reinterpreting and redescribing what's going on, with a mixture of standard and nonstandard language.
On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote: So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
Yes. More clear but is does still not mean you are top 20% diamond! But with this change i will be able to tell you your mmr even more accurate.
On September 12 2012 11:05 skeldark wrote: Exactly. An approximation that is years away from the truth formated as statement.
My problem with calling these things "lies" is that I don't agree that there's intent to deceive.
My take on the issue is that they're writing these announcements to try to communicate ideas about a very complex system without going into a full explanation, not because they're trying to hide how it works, but just so that they don't turn off or confuse people who just won't follow the full explanation.
Does this result in occasional oversimplification or misstatement as they try to distill these concepts down into simple language? Yes. But seriously, look at how many people read Excalibur_Z's thread and come away with completely out of whack understandings of what they've seen there? A full, complete explanation isn't necessarily a cure for confusion.
I can tell you because i have to work against many functions that do nothing less than hiding. "With this new system its easier for you to see your progress. Also the position in your division, is closer to your overall ranking in your league now"
There is a diffrence between saying something simple and saying it wrong.
Have you ever been involved in an event that got reported by a news organization? You'd have the same feeling reading an article like that. What seems likely to me is that those ladder system articles are being written by the community management staff after a (probably complete) discussion of what's happening with the designers. So, you have someone who is not an expert filtering and reinterpreting and redescribing what's going on, with a mixture of standard and nonstandard language.
Exactly. I total agree. No programmer who wrote such an algorithm would ever explain him so wrong. Thats why i think that the guys who write the announcement dont even know what they talking about. Thats why i dont put much trust in them.
When i say lie , i dont want to say: "they betray us" i just say: "they dont tell the truth"
On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote: So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
Yes. More clear but is does still not mean you are top 20% diamond! But with this change i will be able to tell you your mmr even more accurate.
Thanks mate, great to hear tiers/divisons removed. So how exactly will you tell me my MMR? :O
On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote: So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
I wouldn't agree that being "ranked 20" will be more meaningful, but given your point score vs. someone else's, the one with the higher point score will usually be the one with the higher MMR, IF you've both used all your bonus points.
On September 12 2012 11:10 dynwar7 wrote: So just confirming, the MMR thing...basically it is confirmed that there is no tiers/division anymore in season 4, therefore saying I am ranked 20 in Diamond will be more "clear" compared to when they had tiers/divisions?
Yes. More clear but is does still not mean you are top 20% diamond! But with this change i will be able to tell you your mmr even more accurate.
Thanks mate, great to hear tiers/divisons removed. So how exactly will you tell me my MMR? :O
I'm forever platinum, but honestly I could care less. I'm a random player so I don't expect to get diamond any time soon. Especially when I spend 90% of my gaming time playing GW2.
Hi. Just wanted to pop into the thread to say you're wrong. Actually you're so wrong that the systems designer emailed me out of the blue to tell me to mention that Lysenko is right.
I'll also be updating the Ladder Guide soon to reflect the new changes.
On September 12 2012 10:19 Sc2ggRise wrote: whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before?
That's clearly a problem. Worth making a post on the bug reports forum at battle.net.
Was platinum in beta when it was the highest league. Was diamond in retail when it was the highest, and there I stayed every season until this one... Platinum again! I've come full circle. I'm really not as good at RTS as I used to be >_<
On September 12 2012 12:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Was platinum in beta when it was the highest league. Was diamond in retail when it was the highest, and there I stayed every season until this one... Platinum again! I've come full circle. I'm really not as good at RTS as I used to be >_<
Dont forget, everyone get better. To rise you have to get faster better than the others To fall you just have to stay stable.
I can proudly say that since I bought the game one year and a half ago, I'm a proud platinum player. I suppose this means I'm improving as fast as the average player is doing.
And this is so true, I have watched some of my very first replays. And I played so awful... holy crap.
c'mon Blizzard you were doing good, don't kill the momentum. Though the removal of rocks on Tal'darim may sway me enough to get it off the veto list. I think Musphelheim might be a good addition to the pool.
On September 12 2012 10:19 Sc2ggRise wrote: whats with this never ending placement match BS? it keeps saying "play one match to be placed in a new division for this season" and after winning 2 in a row, it still says the same thing?
Anyone else have this issue? or is it normal and I never noticed it before?
That's clearly a problem. Worth making a post on the bug reports forum at battle.net.
I have also been having this problem.
I'm having the problem as well. My 4's and 3's random team placement matches went fine, but in 2's I've now played two placement matches, still says I have one placement match to go. Going to post in bnet forums about it right now if not reported already.
So happy for this...now I get to tank my account into silver and troll people with cannons and carriers :D So good news for you diamond people in whatever division im in (lol) you can have my spot in masters.
I wonder if there are enough people doing this to affect the integrity of ladder rankings? I'm not entirely sure what the effect on the people around them would be -- the games won to people who just leave while on the way down might cancel out the games they win with cannons and carriers, though since those games won and lost are uncorrelated with the other player's skill, it might just have the effect of adding random noise to everyone else's ratings.
Two of the first three games I played were people beating me with exactly the same aggressive early push, timed almost to the second, when I hadn't seen that particular opening more than once or twice in the last 200 games. (I almost never see well-timed anything at my level.) One of those guys had placed into bronze this season. I'm guessing a lot of people have had the idea to tank their ratings and troll people.
I have also seen this and it kind of hits the biggest issue I have with the ladder (which I not sure how they would ever fix tbh)
you have no idea who going you are playing you can go from playing a macro player who is ok to playing a guy who will 6 pool a terran
play a guy who plays really well but with a goofy strat and wins cause although its goofy and you think the guy is just bad and not really understand the game he is actaully much higher skill level than you and is just trolling check the match history and guy lost all 5 placements and then never lost a game since
Just wondering, is the no-tier ranking system (the "high rank means you're high in your league") working? Because so far, I don't feel like anything changed. Maybe the season just needs to kick off when lot of players play their placements, but still.
And so far a nice streak. In this order, I was getting: 6 pooled, 2 raxed with concussive and SCV pull, 4 gated and Marine + SCV all-inned (okay, my fault, i tried nexus first). I thought platinum was a type of metal, not some kind of cheese.
Because so many people say yes and no about the new no tier/division system, can someone please confirm for me:
Is tier/division really removed? Therefore now it is safe to say that, if you are ranked 20, it reflects your skill better than previous seasons, its this simple right? Some say yes some no thats why i am confused -.-
On September 12 2012 18:02 dynwar7 wrote: Because so many people say yes and no about the new no tier/division system, can someone please confirm for me:
Is tier/division really removed? Therefore now it is safe to say that, if you are ranked 20, it reflects your skill better than previous seasons, its this simple right? Some say yes some no thats why i am confused -.-
Is the Bonus points system still there? Then your rank in a league does not show skill. It's easy as that.
Why? A little example to explain: 2 players, A and B, start the season at the exact same MMR and in the same league. Player A plays 40 games with a 50/50 win/loss ratio. Due to the bonus pool, he will have let's say 240 points (12+12 for 20 wins and -12 for 20 losses). His MMR will quite much stay the same, because of the 50/50 ratio. Player B plays just 10 games, but wins them all. With the bonus pool, he'll have 240 points aswell (12+12 per win). His MMR will have climbed a lot, because of the 100% win ratio. Both players would have equal number of points and roughly the same rank in their league (if tiers really don't exist anymore), although player B is much better (MMR would reflect this) than player A. If both had used up their bonus pool this would get a little more accurate, but the league rank doesn't care about it. This example is very simplified and just to show the major flaw of the points system.
On September 12 2012 18:20 BurningRanger wrote: Is the Bonus points system still there? Then your rank in a league does not show skill. It's easy as that.
Your rank in your division is a pretty good representation of your skill relative to others in the division IF you are someone who's used up all your bonus points, and you're only comparing against other people who have used all of their bonus points. (For players who have accumulated a small number of bonus points, you can look at their profile, see how many unused bonus points they have, and just add that number to their score for a quick and dirty comparison, also.)
It's true that the ladder system doesn't really give you much of an accurate estimate of MMRs of inactive players. However, if the system showed raw MMR to you, that wouldn't be very informative either about those players' skill levels, because very old MMRs don't reflect people being out of practice, or falling behind in the metagame, or the effects of changes to the population's overall skill level as less-skilled players drop out or active players get better overall.
Edit: However, you can now compare two ACTIVE players in the same league just by looking at their relative point scores. By active, they have to be active enough to be using all their bonus points regularly.
Edit 2:
If both had used up their bonus pool this would get a little more accurate, but the league rank doesn't care about it.
This is not really true. A player with a higher MMR will earn more points for wins until their point value matches their MMR adjusted for their league, so they'll naturally rise in the ratings faster. If you look over a typical division, you can usually draw a line roughly where people aren't keeping up with their bonus points, add on the unused bonus pool for people above that line, and get a pretty good idea of their relative MMRs. That they are using their bonus points will mean they're playing enough to be in equilibrium between their point score and their MMR.
What's deceptive about your example is that your player B is winning 100% of their games but is getting 12 points per win. This can happen, but only if the system has assigned them a very mistaken MMR. This usually only happens when someone either has never played before at all, or they've thrown games to manipulate their rating and started playing at their actual level. It won't usually happen to an active player playing to win.
(Even in those two cases, the points assigned won't be at 12 for very long. What will happen is that they'll start getting fewer points per win, as their MMR lags behind their point increase. Once their MMR stabilizes, they'll achieve a 50/50 win/loss ratio and start getting 12 points per game again.)
On September 12 2012 20:30 Lysenko wrote: It's true that the ladder system doesn't really give you much of an accurate estimate of MMRs of inactive players. However, if the system showed raw MMR to you, that wouldn't be very informative either about those players' skill levels, because very old MMRs don't reflect people being out of practice, or falling behind in the metagame, or the effects of changes to the population's overall skill level as less-skilled players drop out or active players get better overall.
For that imo the seasons with their activity check (1 placement match at the start of a season) would filter out inactive players quite well. Players that only play their placement match each season are the exception though, but I don't think this is a problem. For the overall skill level changing, the promotion lines between leagues can be altered (e.g. not 1000 MMR needed to get from Silver to Gold, but 1100 MMR now). Can't be too hard either.
And the number 12 in my example was just an example too. Just to have a number to calculate with.
On September 12 2012 20:33 Asturas wrote: So Metropolis is not back and Tal'Darim is still there. Sucks as hell. Looks like no changes in mappool. I am sad
Yep, the only map change is removing the rocks (from the 3rd) at Tal'Darim Altar. Pretty uneventful season when it comes to maps.
Placed back in plat, kind of annoying after being Diamond since the initial beta. I fell down after taking a break for 3 months last season but I came back before and was facing diamond players at the end of the season so hopefully I'll get back up soon.
Either way won all my games (3) since I got back and placed so time to keep on fighting! <3
On September 12 2012 21:26 Qikz wrote: Placed back in plat, kind of annoying after being Diamond since the initial beta. I fell down after taking a break for 3 months last season but I came back before and was facing diamond players at the end of the season so hopefully I'll get back up soon.
Either way won all my games (3) since I got back and placed so time to keep on fighting! <3
Just got this error a bunch of times in a row as I'm trying to search for a 1v1 ladder match...
Really weird. I've never ever seen this error before. I restarted SC2 and got the same thing a few more times. I was able to play one game a short while ago, so I'm just gonna close down SC2 for a little while and then try playing again later. Hopefully the problem fixes itself. (EDIT: I can't search for team ladder games either x.x)
Also, all my map preferences were changed... I realized that as my first match of the season was on a map I had downvoted (Ohana), and when I went to go check my preferences, they were all messed up x.x Ominous start for Season 4 lol...
On September 12 2012 21:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Just got this error a bunch of times in a row as I'm trying to search for a 1v1 ladder match...
Really weird. I've never ever seen this error before. I restarted SC2 and got the same thing a few more times. I was able to play one game a short while ago, so I'm just gonna close down SC2 for a little while and then try playing again later. Hopefully the problem fixes itself. (EDIT: I can't search for team ladder games either x.x)
Also, all my map preferences were changed... I realized that as my first match of the season was on a map I had downvoted (Ohana), and when I went to go check my preferences, they were all messed up x.x Ominous start for Season 4 lol...
Lol, got demoted to gold for some reason, I had been playing really well and had only lost 3 out of the last 18 games I had played yet I got demoted. So said "fuck it, lets play som games", played 6 protosses in a row, I cheesed one guy, two tried to cheese me but failed, one disconnected, and only one game was a long macro game and I won every game. Then I lost to a diamond zerg, but won 3 TvT's, I cheesed every game and got back to Platinum, all this in a matter of 60 minutes thank you very much.^^
Anyone else having their main profile page show 0 career games, 0 games this season, and no 1v1 highest result history despite this being false? Me and a few of my buddies having this problem.
Oh, ok, so basically your rank is a pretty good representation of where you are ONLY when you have used all your bonus pool, and also when you compare it to people who have used all their bonus pools, is this correct?
On September 12 2012 21:12 BurningRanger wrote: For the overall skill level changing, the promotion lines between leagues can be altered (e.g. not 1000 MMR needed to get from Silver to Gold, but 1100 MMR now). Can't be too hard either.
And the number 12 in my example was just an example too. Just to have a number to calculate with.
Thing is, they don't want to reward inactive players for getting a high MMR and then just sitting around. That's the reason for the bonus pool. It's an important thing and you'd see a lot of complaining if there were no mechanism at all to deal with people who play a few games a season and then leave.
As for the numbers in your example -- the numbers are important, because that's what you were using to draw your conclusions. Saying you just picked meaningless numbers for an example makes your result meaningless if it depends on those numbers.
What I find funny is that according to the OP they are changing the 3v3 and 4v4 by adding old maps to the ladder. Anyway I'm glad frontier is gone, I think it was the most absurd map still in the mappool (it was a map where a player had 2 regular sized ramps and the 2 others had a huge ramps + a standard ramp). Try to hold speedling push with that
On September 12 2012 22:03 dynwar7 wrote: Oh, ok, so basically your rank is a pretty good representation of where you are ONLY when you have used all your bonus pool, and also when you compare it to people who have used all their bonus pools, is this correct?
Pretty much. However, people who have generally been keeping up with their bonus points but have a few unspent points you can compare by looking at their profile, reading their unspent bonus points from the ladder page, and adding that to their score. That should be pretty close for a comparison.
Edit: To be perfectly clear, you should be comparing point score, not rank, because that will not depend on division differences. Also, you can only make these comparisons within your same league. Skeldark & friends may be able to discern how to compare between different leagues at some point but that's speculation now.
You can compare rank within your division, of course, at least among people who have spent most or all of their bonus pool, because people are ranked by point score.
On September 12 2012 22:03 dynwar7 wrote: Oh, ok, so basically your rank is a pretty good representation of where you are ONLY when you have used all your bonus pool, and also when you compare it to people who have used all their bonus pools, is this correct?
Basically, yes. But even then, there's always the chance that you were placed in a particularly strong division or a particularly weak division. Before the change, some divisions were stronger than others on purpose (division tiers), now some divisions can be stronger than others due to pure chance (bunch of good players relative to their league doing placements around the same time). The variance in division-skill will be less though.
On September 12 2012 22:08 Rannasha wrote: Before the change, some divisions were stronger than others on purpose (division tiers), now some divisions can be stronger than others due to pure chance (bunch of good players relative to their league doing placements around the same time). The variance in division-skill will be less though.
To clarify this: before, the division tiers represented different mappings from point score to MMR (in Diamond and below only.) So, if you compared two people in divisions in two different tiers, they might have the same point score and different MMRs. Now, a given numerical point score in a certain league always corresponds to the same MMR if the player's played enough games to reach equilibrium.
So, you can compare point scores within a league for active players, and on average you can roughly compare rank (though this would generally be VERY rough) but it's probably better to keep an eye on the point score.
Strange, can login with one of my alternate accounts, but can't login with my main account. Just played a ladder game with my main about 10 minutes ago and it said I left the game after I won the game.
On September 12 2012 21:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Just got this error a bunch of times in a row as I'm trying to search for a 1v1 ladder match...
Really weird. I've never ever seen this error before. I restarted SC2 and got the same thing a few more times. I was able to play one game a short while ago, so I'm just gonna close down SC2 for a little while and then try playing again later. Hopefully the problem fixes itself. (EDIT: I can't search for team ladder games either x.x)
Also, all my map preferences were changed... I realized that as my first match of the season was on a map I had downvoted (Ohana), and when I went to go check my preferences, they were all messed up x.x Ominous start for Season 4 lol...
Quoting myself to note to everyone else that this problem seems to be fixed... I can join games with no problem again
How are division tiers removed, when I'm in a division with about 10 pros in it, while I have a friend, who isn't and it takes him half the points to be in top 8?
On September 13 2012 00:43 nShade wrote: How are division tiers removed, when I'm in a division with about 10 pros in it, while I have a friend, who isn't and it takes him half the points to be in top 8?
Buy they gonna be promoted to Gm when GM starts.. so no worries..
On September 13 2012 00:43 nShade wrote: How are division tiers removed, when I'm in a division with about 10 pros in it, while I have a friend, who isn't and it takes him half the points to be in top 8?
Removing division tiers doesn't mean all divisions are equal. In the past (and I'd assume this season) people are placed into divisions in the order in which they finish their placements. You probably played your placement right after the season started, while your friend probably waited a few hours. Since the pros are going to be playing as soon as the servers come up, they'll be in the earlier divisions, mostly.
However, once you're done with your bonus pool and your matches are consistently showing even rather than favored for the other side, and once your friend is in the same position, you can compare your point scores to see (roughly) the relative MMR.
Division tiers were a system in Diamond and below that tried to ensure that divisions were close together in skill within a league, by giving different divisions different mappings between their point score (not counting bonus points) and MMR. So, a lower-level division might have higher point scores for the same MMR as a higher-level division. This system did not apply to Master or Grand Master league, so in those leagues there will be no change at all.
On September 13 2012 01:23 Valon wrote: Once again Blizzard fails to improve the ladder.
I don't agree -- I think it's great, as someone in Diamond and below on my accounts. Once people start playing actively and sc2ranks gets up to date, it'll be possible to really know where I stand in my league, which previously was a luxury only Master and Grand Master players had.
Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l
Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works.
Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l
Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works.
Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
But the MMR isn't a constant. Shouldn't his MMR be dropping as he loses games? Is that happening, even when it seems that he does not lose ANY ladder points for his losses?
On September 12 2012 22:05 Lysenko wrote: Edit: To be perfectly clear, you should be comparing point score, not rank, because that will not depend on division differences. Also, you can only make these comparisons within your same league. Skeldark & friends may be able to discern how to compare between different leagues at some point but that's speculation now.
We can do so in the last 3 month allready. With the change of the system i will be most of the time +-16 MMR accurate, in a scale of 0-3000. At the moment i am nearly as accurate but just need more games to get stable. We know everything about the ladder system by now. I worte an algorithm that detect in what tier a player is. With 400.000 games we calculated the offsets for all tiers. Calculating league difference is easy compare to tier difference. Only a part of it, is explained in Excalibur post.
Calculating MMR was no problem any more in the old system for us. What is most likley the reason they finally removed some of fake parts, because we can back calculate them anyway.
Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l
Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works.
Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
Ummm... no? That's definitely not normal, and that's definitely not "always happened".
When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero.
nShade, it's probably just a bug. There's a lot of weird ladder things going on right now.
EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
Maybe you never had your MMR high enough to lose a game without losing ANY points (not even -0). My first 15~ loses of a season is always a "Loss" without any lost point mentioned.
It's not a bug, as you can see, he wins 24-25 points because his opponents are "false-favored" and the ladder needs this player to reach a high number of ladder points, because of his high average MMR.
Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l
Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works.
Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
Ummm... no? That's definitely not normal, and that's definitely not "always happened".
When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero.
nShade, it's probably just a bug. There's a lot of weird ladder things going on right now.
EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
That is normal and I can tell you why,,,when the system calculates how many points you gain/lose it looks at your own points and compares them to opponents MMR. AiSeiplo has REALLY high MMR but he has only few points because of the new season. His opponents obviously have high MMR aswell and thatswhy he loses no points at all when he is losing games. And it makes sense aswell.... the system wants each player to reach his MMR level in points very quickly and therefor players who are very high on ladder gain way more points when winning and lose less.... otherwise 2 players would have same amount of points even though 1 plays way better opponents...
I have never played against so much cheese lol. Literally everyone I played last night cheesed in some fasion. Apparently I have no clue how to stop proxy 2 gate or 6 pools lol.
Anyway...
Has anyone else been playing against only 'favored' opponents? I think a couple of mine were 'slightly favored', but all the rest were 'favored' and im just getting smashed left and right. I played 20 games in the past 2 days, still not showing 'even' or in my favor yet.
On September 13 2012 02:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero.
This is probably a side effect of removing division tiers. We don't know what league the posted player was from, but if the difference between one's point score (which starts at 0) and one's MMR (converted to point score using that league's conversions) is big enough, some players might see 24 points for every win and -0 for every loss.
In a league like bronze, which covered a very wide MMR range, division tiers covered this up, because a player like that would be in a high tier and the conversion from points to MMR would be such that they didn't gain as many points on the way up.
On September 13 2012 03:21 ishyishy wrote: Has anyone else been playing against only 'favored' opponents? I think a couple of mine were 'slightly favored', but all the rest were 'favored' and im just getting smashed left and right. I played 20 games in the past 2 days, still not showing 'even' or in my favor yet.
This is normal at the start of any season, but probably more pronounced with division tier removal if you're not in Master league. Players start at 0 points and get matched against equal-MMR opponents (or as closely as the system can match) but because the "favored" language refers to the difference between your current point value and your opponent's MMR (converted to points for your league) it will say "favored" or "slightly favored" until your point score is high enough to reflect your MMR.
Removing division tiers in Diamond and below means players in higher tiers have to go farther to reach their MMR, so this condition persists longer and results in more games where the opponent is "favored."
On September 13 2012 02:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
His post may have seemed patronizing, but he does understand what's going on and he's right, it has "always happened," though it's usually not been that pronounced for most players.
On September 13 2012 03:21 ishyishy wrote: Has anyone else been playing against only 'favored' opponents? I think a couple of mine were 'slightly favored', but all the rest were 'favored' and im just getting smashed left and right. I played 20 games in the past 2 days, still not showing 'even' or in my favor yet.
This is normal at the start of any season, but probably more pronounced with division tier removal if you're not in Master league. Players start at 0 points and get matched against equal-MMR opponents (or as closely as the system can match) but because the "favored" language refers to the difference between your current point value and your opponent's MMR (converted to points for your league) it will say "favored" or "slightly favored" until your point score is high enough to reflect your MMR.
Removing division tiers in Diamond and below means players in higher tiers have to go farther to reach their MMR, so this condition persists longer and results in more games where the opponent is "favored."
It's also worth noting that it's going to be pretty temporary. In Master league it's a lot more noticeable because that's the top league, so stretches of +24/-0 games can go on and on and on until eventually a player reaches their MMR, and they can't get any higher up until they get invited to Grandmaster. In lower leagues if this happens, a player is just going to get promoted and you won't see them anymore.
Just had 4 free wins on ladder. All master players and i dont know why they left. One of them asked if he could get a free win and left instantly. It doesnt make sense to me
where can wecheck the percentage of master players in this season versus last season?? i have a feeling that the no. of master players got cut down by a lot.
On September 13 2012 05:35 jlai wrote: where can wecheck the percentage of master players in this season versus last season?? i have a feeling that the no. of master players got cut down by a lot.
On September 13 2012 01:25 covetousrat wrote: Wow Blizzard still havnt fix the team games chat bug. Freaking irritating
What's this bug?
They have not even acknowledged the placement match bug yet either, every frustrating
I think he's talking about this one:
• It's possible for a user's in game chat to stop functioning. We are seeing a number of reports regarding in game chat breaking during some matches. We are investigating the issue.
are you referring to this one?
• Placement matches may not display correctly. This issue is under investigation.
• It's possible for a user's in game chat to stop functioning. We are seeing a number of reports regarding in game chat breaking during some matches. We are investigating the issue.
Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l
Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works.
Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
Ummm... no? That's definitely not normal, and that's definitely not "always happened".
When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero.
nShade, it's probably just a bug. There's a lot of weird ladder things going on right now.
EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
it is NOT a bug, dumbasses say this at the beginning of EVERY SEASON and nobody learns. -.-
anybody with mmr high in their league won't lose points until their mmr approaches their actual points. every gm player, at the beginning of the season, will get up to like 600 points in master before they lose a single point.
We are aware of an issue where some players are not being placed into a league after the recent season roll. In these particular instances, it appears the ladder is being a bit picky about placing you into a league until your rating stabilizes.
We are investigating a possible solution, but in the meantime please keep playing games and eventually you will get placed into an appropriate league. Our apologies for the inconvenience.
EPT
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