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On September 13 2012 01:42 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:24 nShade wrote:Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works. Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
But the MMR isn't a constant. Shouldn't his MMR be dropping as he loses games?
Is that happening, even when it seems that he does not lose ANY ladder points for his losses?
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On September 12 2012 22:05 Lysenko wrote:
Edit: To be perfectly clear, you should be comparing point score, not rank, because that will not depend on division differences. Also, you can only make these comparisons within your same league. Skeldark & friends may be able to discern how to compare between different leagues at some point but that's speculation now.
We can do so in the last 3 month allready.
With the change of the system i will be most of the time +-16 MMR accurate, in a scale of 0-3000.
At the moment i am nearly as accurate but just need more games to get stable.
We know everything about the ladder system by now.
I worte an algorithm that detect in what tier a player is. With 400.000 games we calculated the offsets for all tiers.
Calculating league difference is easy compare to tier difference.
Only a part of it, is explained in Excalibur post.
Calculating MMR was no problem any more in the old system for us. What is most likley the reason they finally removed some of fake parts, because we can back calculate them anyway.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QyI3K.jpg)
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On September 13 2012 01:42 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:24 nShade wrote:Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works. Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season.
Ummm... no? That's definitely not normal, and that's definitely not "always happened".
When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero.
nShade, it's probably just a bug. There's a lot of weird ladder things going on right now.
EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
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Maybe you never had your MMR high enough to lose a game without losing ANY points (not even -0). My first 15~ loses of a season is always a "Loss" without any lost point mentioned.
It's not a bug, as you can see, he wins 24-25 points because his opponents are "false-favored" and the ladder needs this player to reach a high number of ladder points, because of his high average MMR.
Yes, I did read Excal's posts which are awesome.
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On September 13 2012 02:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:42 Shade_CsT wrote:On September 13 2012 01:24 nShade wrote:Is this a bug? It doesn't seem like he loses points for losses. He's 1st in my division with about a 50% w/l Did you ever played at the start of a season ? It's NORMAL and It always HAPPENED. You should read Excal's post about how the ladder works. Short explanation : This player will start to lose 12 points / win 12 points as soon as he reaches the rating equivalent of his MMR. It would be unfair if a low MMR player could get as much points as this player, that's why he wins more points than he loses points at the beginning of the season. Ummm... no? That's definitely not normal, and that's definitely not "always happened". When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero. nShade, it's probably just a bug. There's a lot of weird ladder things going on right now. EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
That is normal and I can tell you why,,,when the system calculates how many points you gain/lose it looks at your own points and compares them to opponents MMR. AiSeiplo has REALLY high MMR but he has only few points because of the new season. His opponents obviously have high MMR aswell and thatswhy he loses no points at all when he is losing games. And it makes sense aswell.... the system wants each player to reach his MMR level in points very quickly and therefor players who are very high on ladder gain way more points when winning and lose less.... otherwise 2 players would have same amount of points even though 1 plays way better opponents...
it is not a bug but completely normal.
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I have never played against so much cheese lol. Literally everyone I played last night cheesed in some fasion. Apparently I have no clue how to stop proxy 2 gate or 6 pools lol.
Anyway...
Has anyone else been playing against only 'favored' opponents? I think a couple of mine were 'slightly favored', but all the rest were 'favored' and im just getting smashed left and right. I played 20 games in the past 2 days, still not showing 'even' or in my favor yet.
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So it's another 2 month season 
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On September 13 2012 02:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
When I lose matches, I lose points. So does everyone else. When I win matches, I win points. It may be slightly different amounts, but not consistently zero.
This is probably a side effect of removing division tiers. We don't know what league the posted player was from, but if the difference between one's point score (which starts at 0) and one's MMR (converted to point score using that league's conversions) is big enough, some players might see 24 points for every win and -0 for every loss.
In a league like bronze, which covered a very wide MMR range, division tiers covered this up, because a player like that would be in a high tier and the conversion from points to MMR would be such that they didn't gain as many points on the way up.
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On September 13 2012 03:21 ishyishy wrote:
Has anyone else been playing against only 'favored' opponents? I think a couple of mine were 'slightly favored', but all the rest were 'favored' and im just getting smashed left and right. I played 20 games in the past 2 days, still not showing 'even' or in my favor yet.
This is normal at the start of any season, but probably more pronounced with division tier removal if you're not in Master league. Players start at 0 points and get matched against equal-MMR opponents (or as closely as the system can match) but because the "favored" language refers to the difference between your current point value and your opponent's MMR (converted to points for your league) it will say "favored" or "slightly favored" until your point score is high enough to reflect your MMR.
Removing division tiers in Diamond and below means players in higher tiers have to go farther to reach their MMR, so this condition persists longer and results in more games where the opponent is "favored."
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On September 13 2012 02:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
EDIT: It's also funny how patronizing Shade_CsT's tone is about "not reading" things when he clearly didn't even read the post he's commenting on (or just doesn't know what he's talking about).
His post may have seemed patronizing, but he does understand what's going on and he's right, it has "always happened," though it's usually not been that pronounced for most players.
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United States12240 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:49 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 03:21 ishyishy wrote:
Has anyone else been playing against only 'favored' opponents? I think a couple of mine were 'slightly favored', but all the rest were 'favored' and im just getting smashed left and right. I played 20 games in the past 2 days, still not showing 'even' or in my favor yet. This is normal at the start of any season, but probably more pronounced with division tier removal if you're not in Master league. Players start at 0 points and get matched against equal-MMR opponents (or as closely as the system can match) but because the "favored" language refers to the difference between your current point value and your opponent's MMR (converted to points for your league) it will say "favored" or "slightly favored" until your point score is high enough to reflect your MMR. Removing division tiers in Diamond and below means players in higher tiers have to go farther to reach their MMR, so this condition persists longer and results in more games where the opponent is "favored."
It's also worth noting that it's going to be pretty temporary. In Master league it's a lot more noticeable because that's the top league, so stretches of +24/-0 games can go on and on and on until eventually a player reaches their MMR, and they can't get any higher up until they get invited to Grandmaster. In lower leagues if this happens, a player is just going to get promoted and you won't see them anymore.
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I can confirm that the tiers are gone!
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Just had 4 free wins on ladder. All master players and i dont know why they left.
One of them asked if he could get a free win and left instantly.
It doesnt make sense to me 
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where can wecheck the percentage of master players in this season versus last season?? i have a feeling that the no. of master players got cut down by a lot.
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On September 13 2012 05:35 jlai wrote:
where can wecheck the percentage of master players in this season versus last season?? i have a feeling that the no. of master players got cut down by a lot.
Wait two weeks and look at sc2ranks.com.
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Yay, happy to see Shakuras still in the pool (I'm Terran  )!
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On September 13 2012 01:25 covetousrat wrote:
Wow Blizzard still havnt fix the team games chat bug. Freaking irritating
What's this bug?
They have not even acknowledged the placement match bug yet either, every frustrating
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On September 13 2012 08:12 rhs408 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:25 covetousrat wrote:
Wow Blizzard still havnt fix the team games chat bug. Freaking irritating What's this bug? They have not even acknowledged the placement match bug yet either, every frustrating
I think he's talking about this one:
• It's possible for a user's in game chat to stop functioning.
We are seeing a number of reports regarding in game chat breaking during some matches. We are investigating the issue.
are you referring to this one?
• Placement matches may not display correctly.
This issue is under investigation.
Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2267599524
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On September 13 2012 09:16 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:12 rhs408 wrote:On September 13 2012 01:25 covetousrat wrote:
Wow Blizzard still havnt fix the team games chat bug. Freaking irritating What's this bug? They have not even acknowledged the placement match bug yet either, every frustrating I think he's talking about this one: Show nested quote +• It's possible for a user's in game chat to stop functioning.
We are seeing a number of reports regarding in game chat breaking during some matches. We are investigating the issue. are you referring to this one? Show nested quote +• Placement matches may not display correctly.
This issue is under investigation. Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2267599524
No, this is something different (the placement match bug). http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2267599524 was last updated in late August. Only started this season.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg838/scaled.php?server=838&filename=screenshot2012091219211.jpg&res=landing)
